It's Coming!

[Scott Greczkowski]

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/review.gif

You do not want to be away from your computer this weekend! As this weekend DBStalk.COM will present our Exclussive DBStalk.COM Review of the New Dish Network PVR-721 receiver!

We will put the 721 through its paces for you and let you know all our likes and dislikes. We will also allert you to any problems we might encounter.

Besides normal screen shots and text our review will also feature actual video from the 721 so that you can actually see the 721 in action! We should warn you in advance to see the video you will need the latest version of RealNetworks RealPlayer. If you do not have the latest RealPlayer you can CLICK HERE (http://www.real.com/R/RC.020614r1cp_1.bodymain.txt..R/forms.real.com/real/realone/realone.html) to download a free version of the RealPlayer. (Click on the Words "FREE REALONE PLAYER")

We hope you enjoy our review!

Special Thanks to DishDepot.COM (http://www.dishdepot.com) for helping us obtain our 721 unit!

[Swampthing]

But if you're on a Mac with OS X... you're screwed. RealOne isn't even available for the Mac, so hopefully the videos will be compatible with the old RealPlayer 8 that is still available strictly for Mac OS 9 and below.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I will encode them so that people with RealPlayer 8 can view them. :)

Enjoy!

Scott

[Randy_B]

What time do the festivities begin?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Umm This weekend. :)

[James_F]

I can't wait Scott, great work again!

[Scott Greczkowski]

Like my little Animated Gif? :) That was my first attempt at doing them. :D

[jasonf]

Scott can't wait to see it in action, or de-action ;)

[marshalk]

oh boy oh boy...go Scott, you 'da man

[Swampthing]

Scott... It would be pretty cool if you could shoot videos of the machine spontaneously rebooting, failing to record while you scream at it, or various other features that don't appear to work yet either! ;> I'm looking for the good and the bad... assuming you have a censor button!

[Bill D]

Scott, I am also lookinf forward to the review. A few things beyond everything else... could you confirm the width from the specs on the brochure you posted last week. It says the width is 16". My 4900 (14" wide) just fits into a spot in my entertainment center under the TV. If the 721 doesn't fit, I will have to make room for it with the rest of my equipment, which of course is in an enclosed cabinet with glass doors. There are some holes in the back, I think I will get a small fan I saw at PCpowercooling. Maybe you can do some tests in a cabinet to see if heat is a big factor to be concerned about.
Lastly does it work with only 1 tuner hooked up. It may be a few days until after I get the 721 that I will be able to hookup the 2nd tuner.
Thanks
Bill

[Scott Greczkowski]

Hi Bill, I can answer the question about the 1 tuner operation. No the 721 will not function unless both tuners are plugged in.

An interesting note is the 721 does not seem to work if it is not placed on a flat level surface! (Actually this is a good idea, when the hard drive is level it will get the best performance and least amount of wear and tear)

I wont be able to test in a cabinet as my setup all the A/V equipment is on a AV Rack shelf system. But I will get you the measurements as soon as I can. :D

[kstuart]

You do not want to be away from your computer this weekend!

One can always depend on Scott being inordinately excited by the latest gadget! ;)

If I had $500+ laying around to blow for a cool gadget, I would much prefer a Sony NR70V (http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=3384) , the new Sony PDA with a keyboard, camera and MP3 player built-in.

It's Coming!

Well, if it actually had genitalia built-in, they might actually sell a few...

[Karl Foster]

I would be careful putting a 120GB PVR in an enclosed cabinet. My 45GB UTVs create a lot of heat. My wife swears she could fry bacon on the bottom of them. The UTV manual specifically states not to put anything on top of it, so be careful of your clearances so you don't fry the unit. I have my Family Room UTV on top of the glass-enclosed cabinet just to be safe.

Are you sure it won't work unless both tuners are hooked up? While I know they are different animals, UTV and D*Tivo will work with only one tuner (obviously not all features work) hooked up. I look forward to your review, Scott.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yes it has been confirmed by a few a few dealers who have them, that in order for the 721 to work both tuners must be connected.

My 721 has made it from Florida and in Kentucky, it will be here tommrow, yippie! :) (I get a feeling I will be visitng UPS a lot tonight. :D

[Bill D]

Karl, do you think a small cooling fan like this one would help enough to keep it in a cabinet
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/alarmandaccesories/silencerfan/index.htm
I may not have a choice if it is truely 16" wide
thanks
Bill

[Karl Foster]

I'm not sure, but in reading at AVSForum people have installed them in UTV units and have had success. If you can cut away the area behind where your PVR is going to be located, that would probably help as well.

Here is a link that talks about fans in UTV units - it may or may not differ in the PVR 721:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1041590&highlight=hot+bottom#post1041590

Good luck and I hope the unit is all it is cracked up to be.

[Swampthing]

Well... Personally I think it just plain sucks that the 721 will not work unless both tuners are plugged in because it means *everyone* who gets a 721 will *have* to get new wires installed just to make Echostar's latest "Box o' Bugs" work.

Here's a question... can the second input be from your cable company? My wife currently subscribes to cable in order to view television where we don't have a satellite installed, but the cable company coax is everywhere if I need it.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Look what just arrived at my Desk.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/721box.jpg

If you will notice on the lower right there is writing, below that there is some blue tape covering some writing, if you peel it off it says "DSL READY"

[Craig Fogus]

I'm drooling over here....

[Nick]

WOW! What a great looking box! I see it
is a 'Complete System" - what's up with
that?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[EvanS]

I see the couple on the front of the box cuddling...

...or is that huddling in fear of what it IS or ISN'T gonna do??

Hey, I know it was a cheap shot - that's why I took it

Look forward to hear you experiences Scott

[Scott Greczkowski]

Just again to verify what I said earlier about having to have both tuners hooked up...

From the PVR 721 Read Me First letter

"On the back of the receiver are two ports marked Satellite In 1 and Satellite In 2. For the receiver to work properly, you must connect these two ports to the same device - either to the same LNBF on your satellite dish or to the same multi-dish switch"

The manual is a nice 176 page book, there is no mention of Internet access or the USB ports that I could find in breifly glancing over the manual. The only thing it mentions about the USB port is "There is a USB Port on the back panel. It is reserved for future use by EchoStar-approved USB devices."

A funny thing about the manual is that all the pictures they show which they have to show video they show pictures from Channel 101 the Remote Control Help channel.

[Neil Derryberry]

If you have time, try plugging a usb keyboard into one of the usb ports.... UTV units have usb "for future use", but usb keyboards seem to work now.

[Randy_B]

I'm not going to bash E* yet (I'm waiting for the weekend review), but the "most advanced. . . ever" label on the top of the box seems way over the top from what we've read about what it will do (much less what it can do right now out of the box). I don't think there is any doubt that the other dual tuner IRD from the competition has more capabilities.

But hey, when this baby is stable, I'm ready. Installed the quad LNB on Fathers day, ran the RG-6 and the dual feeds are in place (My wife keeps reminding me I still have to patch the holes I cut in the drywall though:blush: ). Let the testing begin.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Just an update.

Plugged everything in and turned it on, after the extrodinary SLOW check switch test I was good to go!

A very cool thing I like about the 721 is that it downloads the new software in the backround! This means I can watch TV while its downloading its software.

I should note that while I can do channel up and down I can not yet access the guide or the PVR functions, when I try to access them I get the following message. This Feature is being aquired from the satellite. Please stand by or check back in a few minutes. which basicly means my receiver has no software and is downloading it now.

I can go into the System Setup option and select Software upgrade and actually see the software being downloaded.

I called Dish Network and activated the unit (although I have not got my hit as of yet.) But I am watching Marnie and Pete on Channel 101 as I wait.

More later!

(PS while I post some updates here please don't consider this my review, what I am posting here are some random thoughts from my big fat head) :D

[BobaBird]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Plugged everything in and turned it on, after the extraordinarily SLOW check switch test I was good to go!

Did it come with the new DishPro LNBF and switch and if so, what is the system designation (721-22C?)? Did you connect it to your existing legacy LNBF and switch or change over to DishPro?

[cnsf]

Also, is that Joe Theisman next to the couple? :-)

Would be fitting, wouldn't it?

[Scott Greczkowski]

No I did not get a new dish or DishPro LNB's. The 721 is hooked up to my SW64 switch.

So far so good, I am putting it through its paces now. :D

[cnsf]

Also, did you home-run the second line or did you cascade an SW-21?

[cnsf]

Seems like the title of the thread should be changed from "It's" to "He's"

[John Corn]

Wooohoooo, have fun Scott, I can't wait till mine comes. :) I know I'm way down on the list at Dish Depot. :(

:lol: .....Evan, that comment cracked me up.

[Scott Greczkowski]

My 2 lines are coming directly of my SW 64. No other switches are involved.

I have been playing with the 721 for over an hour now and I must say that I am liking what I am seeing, although there are a few things that could use a little help. At the moment I am impressed with the unit!

[Dmitriy]

Good luck Scott.

How's epg? Is it fast?

[Scott Greczkowski]

When you press the guide button and press the page up and down keys the pages change almost instantly.

I will take some realvideo of the guide to show you how fast it is. The channel changing does take some time, but this is not a 721 problem, its because its always recording so that you can pause live tv, so it has to build a buffer everytime you change channels. All PVR's have this problem unfortunately.

[cnsf]

Is the HD noisy? How is the shutdown/startup time?

[Scott Greczkowski]

cnsf, I am SUPRISED to report that I can not hear the hard drive on the 721 (or for that matter the fan the unit has) Although I must admit that the room I have it in I can hear other Hard drive noise from the Dishplayer that is also in the room.

Startup time is a bear (from a cold boot) it takes over 75 seconds for it to go through a full boot. From a warm boot its only a couple of seconds.

[cnsf]

Cory.....that's me.... :D

Not too bad. When do you get to open it up and check out the guts? HD specs, housing config, venting, etc.

[Dmitriy]

I don't recommend opening it up. You will lose your warranty.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yeah I am not gonna open it up. $549 is a lot of money to throw away if I break something. :D

[Jacob S]

I got a few questions.....

Does it have the screensaver like the dishplayer does?
Does it change channels slower than the dishplayer or 501 did?
How far does the guide go? 7 or 9 days? I think 501 is 9 days.
Does the Interactive logo come up to go to a website like the dishplayer does? Maybe it will start doing that later and HOPEFULLY they will make it to where we can shut that feature off.

[Scott Greczkowski]

1) Yes it does have a screensaver, I had it tuned to a PPV movie channel (but I didnt order a PPV) after a few minutes of sitting on the Would you like to order screen a Dish Network logo screen saver popped up

2) I would say about the same as the Dishplayer (5 seconds) this is because its always recording so it needs to make a buffer when it records. Although button pushes bring up the banner or guide alsmost instantly.

3) I just check it is 5:10PM on Friday June 28th and my guide went out to 7 AM Sunday July 9th thats more then 9 days :D

No interactive logos. That was a Microsoft thing not a Dish Network thing.

[Jacob S]

I wonder why they did not put the screen saver on the 501, must be because there is no internet surfing capability with that receiver.

Did it used to take longer to surf the channels on the dishplayer but somehow they were able to speed it up some? I hope they can speed it up quicker than 5 minutes.

Can you press down on the channel up button and it go quickly through the channels like the 301 and some legacy receivers can?

[Dmitriy]

3) I just check it is 5:10PM on Friday June 28th and my guide went out to 7 AM Sunday July 9th thats more then 9 days

Wow! 10+ days......I like that. I thought that it was 7 day guide, that's what E* said.
Forgot to ask, how fast was the guide and software download?

[Scott Greczkowski]

I hope they can speed it up quicker than 5 minutes.

Its 5 seconds not minutes. :)

Can you press down on the channel up button and it go quickly through the channels like the 301 and some legacy receivers can?

No its a PVR which means it must buffer the signal to a hard drie thus there is a delay. ALL PVR's are like that. :D

Scott

[Bob Haller]

Wish I had the money:(

[STXJim]

Scott,
What do the music channel screens look like?
Do they have a screen saver that comes on after a few minutes like the Dishplayer, or
do the titles 'scroll' or
what???

[spanishannouncetable]

Originally posted by Dmitriy


Wow! 10+ days......I like that. I thought that it was 7 day guide, that's what E* said.
Forgot to ask, how fast was the guide and software download?

Ummm, 5:10pm Friday June 28 to 7am Sunday July 7 (not July 9, that is a Tuesday) is 8 1/2 days, not 10+. Its the same guide the 501 gets.

[Bill D]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Just again to verify what I said earlier about having to have both tuners hooked up...

From the PVR 721 Read Me First letter

"On the back of the receiver are two ports marked Satellite In 1 and Satellite In 2. For the receiver to work properly, you must connect these two ports to the same device - either to the same LNBF on your satellite dish or to the same multi-dish switch"


Do they mean work properly, like work as a dual tuner PVR, or really like it won't work at all. I just found out I am getting mine on Wednesday...:D

[Dmitriy]

Originally posted by spanishannouncetable


Ummm, 5:10pm Friday June 28 to 7am Sunday July 7 (not July 9, that is a Tuesday) is 8 1/2 days, not 10+. Its the same guide the 501 gets.

Read Scott's post again! It says it's until July 9. Scott, can you please verify that ?

[waxdonuts]

Does the 721 respond to IR signals from a Learning IR remote?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Time to answer some more questions

What do the music channel screens look like?

They almost look like they do on the 6000, except the song names seem to "float" instead of bounce around. I haven't kept the music on long enough yet to see if a screen saver kicks it.

But I feel that the floating of the titles is a good enough screen saver. :)

It says it's until July 9. Scott, can you please verify that ?

Yes I messed up (sorry) It goes til Sunday July 7th. Thats what get for typing 3 things at once. :D

Does the 721 respond to IR signals from a Learning IR remote?

I would assume so. I can control everything but the PVR functions using the remote from my 3900 reveiver (and that remote is IR only)

Still working. :D

[Randy_B]

How big is the buffer. I hate the 1 hr on the 501 but LOVE the huge "until HD is full" buffer of the DP.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The buffer is 2 hours long on the 721. And the Record from the past feature works just like it does on the 501 (I think thats a REALLY cool feature!)

[STXJim]

Scott,
When you 'really' start reviewing the 721...
Please start a new thread.
Thanks,
Jim

[Dmitriy]

Any bugs? If yes, please right the most annoying bug.

[STXJim]

Originally posted by Dmitriy
Any bugs?


Most bugs won't show up for days, weeks or sometimes even months.
All we can do is sit back and hope that we don't get bit.:rolleyes:

Hey Scott,
Did a can of Raid come with the 721 package???:)

[Scott Greczkowski]

Any bugs? If yes, please right the most annoying bug.

With the new spot patch that was released today I am happy to report that the freezing and rebooting problem that others were reporting are now gone.

To be perfectly honest I have spent a good amount of time TRYING to make the 721 crash, but so far I have not been able too.

My hats off to the folks at Echostar for quickly releasing this patch!

Jim there will be a review thread tommorow. :) Look for the review to go online sometime around 3 pm eastern.

[Dmitriy]

Look for the review to go online sometime around 3 pm eastern.

I can't wait. Thanks Scott.:)

[John Corn]

For those of you interested, I just got to look over some of Scotts review for tomorrow........Your in for a real treat. Scott has done one HELL of a job on what I seen. :righton:

[jasonf]

I know this may not be an issues for some, but my UTV and TIVO change channels around 2-3 seconds, I love that and hated waiting the 5+ seconds my old DP acted. I hope Dish improves the performace with the 721 in the future.

[Jacob S]

So it may not have been the typical thing that caused the bugs in the dishplayer and 501 before that had happened with the 721 this time for the freezing and rebooting issues, so this sounds like a plus that they were able to fix it so quickly, things are looking up then on this unit if that is the case.

I like the 2 hour buffer but I wish we were giving an option to extend the buffer time but of course one could just press record if they think they will be out of the room for a while.

Nobody mentions anything about these extra ports on the back and what we could do with them ourselves. I am surprised nobody had tried rewriting software for this unit or the 501 or dishplayer to allow it to do more things without waiting for Dish to do so to get more features (such as those on my website), someone that knew how to write software of this kind, and use those ports as well.

Maybe if someone could write some good software that Dish might buy it and that person make some good money off of it. If someone discovered something doing this someone could make some good money off of it that way as well. Even if someone did not do it for the money then that person would get some recognition at least for doing what they did.

[Swampthing]

Scott... I'm still curious about the two inputs. Does the 721 run ok if one of the inputs is from your cable company, or do both have to be satellite?

[rolou21]

Swampthing;
From what I understand...the 2 inputs are from the Lnb (regarding you have a twin or quad) You cannot use the cable companies source. Besides you need both inputs from the Lnb for the unit to work properly....
rolou21.

[rolou21]

Does anyone else have any info (from Dish Depot) as far as tracking number or status on their order. I do believe I am order # 25....Hopefully next week because during week of July 6 I'm on Vacation to Cape May, N.J!!
I do beleive the 721 will be a great unit..everyone has to be patient and give E* a chance to work out the bugs....It took 4 501's before It started to work flawless. Hey if it doesn't work..you have the power to ship it back and get a new one...Maybe they will get the message one way or another. The unit is waranteed for 1 year.

[Scott Greczkowski]

the 721 run ok if one of the inputs is from your cable company, or do both have to be satellite?

Both connections need to be from your Dish or Multi Dish Switch. You can not have your Dish on 1 input and cable TV on the other input. The 721 like all other Dish Network receiviers are MPEG receivers not NTSC receivers. :)

[Swampthing]

Okay... I already have a Quad 500 switch installed, and four receivers set up using each of those outputs, so what options would allow me to set up a 721? Is there some other type of splitting or switch options I could use? Or am I better off just having a second Quad 500 and four new inputs installed to each of the receivers?

[John Corn]

Swampthing, do you still have your Quad manual? You can connect 5 or more receivers using the Quad, it will require 4 splitters and 2 SW 44 switches with 2 power Inserters.

[kck]

Go with the DISH PRO LNB that comes with the 721 system and use DISH PRO switch's. I think you can expand to 12 receivers using the 301 or 501 with the 721. If you are using legacy receivers like the 4900 or 3000 you will need an adapter for each legacy unit.

[kelliot]

Can you fool it with a splitter?

[Scott Greczkowski]

No you cant fool it, and in trying to do it you might blow up your 721 due to voltage problems :)

[kelliot]

Well, Once its set up, can you disconnect one-of-them?

[Swampthing]

John... Unfortunately the installer didn't give me the manual after he installed the Quad... :( Any idea how much money it would be to just set up a couple of the recievers to have 721 capability? If I bought the 721 and they set it up, could they install two recievers?

[Corey140]

Scott, is anyway we can download the video to watch? Its pretty hard to watch the video because frames are dropping ( i have cable modem) and the voice over and video just isn't matching up. It would be greatly apprecaited if I could just download it...
thanks

[John Corn]

Swampthing I'm not sure how much it would cost, but the setup with the splitters and switches is tricky.

[Mark Holtz]

I just checked the DishNetwork page, and there is still no mention of the 721.

[Robert]

I've seen several people mentions the 721 is running linux. What does the 721 do/say to indicate Linux? I saw in the review a comment about "Linux devil" which in reality is the "FreeBSD Devil" (the penguin(named tux) is the linux mascot). One person mentioned GPL software on slashdot, however if the device is FreeBSD based it may not be required to GPL anything. I would be real interested in the 721 if it really does runs linux(I like freebsd, however I do not use it very much).

[scooper]

Swampthing - Since you have the QUAD, I think John Corn told you the solution for a single dish solution (i.e. 4 2GHz splitters and 2 SW44's). However, it may be CHEAPER to simply setup a second Dish500/QUAD.

Another option (besides the DishPro series equipment- great - if all your equipment is 301/501/721 - the legacy adapters are expensive) would be to get 2 2x8 multiswitches with 2 Dual LNB's, then use an SW21 for each tuner. But I'm not sure if this would be cost effective as a swap from the QUAD either.

[Jacob S]

What if you connect the 2nd satellite in port up to a different echostar satellite slot or any of these combinations for the 1st and 2nd ports (port 1 is first satellite connection in and port 2 is second satellite connectin in)?.......119 dish 300 (port 1) - 110 dish 300 (port 2), 119 dish 300 (port 1) - 61.5 dish 300 (port 2), 110 dish 300 (port 1) - 61.5 dish 300 (port 2), 119 & 110 dish 500 (port 1), 61.5 dish 300 (port 2) - 119 & 110 dish 500 (port 1) - 110 dish 300 (port 2), or any other combination you can think of.

What would that do to the receiver or what would the result be? The ones with dish 300 above on one port would have no switch on them but just receive from one slot. If a storm would go over and block one of the slots but not the other what would this do? Would any of this cause lock ups or other problems since this is such a more complex set-up and the receiver could get confused?

I remember how the dishplayer got confused and displayed all channels if the power went out or the signal was lost while on or something like that, will the 721 do that as well?