Any reviews/beta testers for 622?

[Danny R]

Be nice to actually read some reviews (from actual installed units, not just show displays) before many of us order the item come Feb 1st.

I know Dish has a history of releasing products that only become really functional a year or so out and first responders are the true "beta" testers. But usually (like with the 942) we at least got to see some "alpha" testers such as Mark giving reviews before the general public got their devices. Is that not going to be the case this time?

[Jeff McClellan]

I do know this, this unit has gone through a vigorous testing program. I have a feeling the 622 will be a very stable and enjoyable unit.

[spykedvodka]

942 rocks. so hopefully this unit will be good too

[tegage]

It seems to me that the 622 is pretty much a 942 with mpeg 4. If that assumption is true, I don't see why it won't be a stable unit.

[P Smith]

If anyone from you have been in developing embedded software, then you'll tell us using much minor tone. New chip was always a challenge.

[James Long]

The units are different enough that it isn't a trivial change.
It looks like they started with a 942 and said let's make an MPEG4 box that can do that and more.

It's like Microsoft looking at Macintosh and saying "we can do a GUI" or having an artist paint a portrait of a portrait. Development starts near scratch with just a good idea. (Although they do have a sound unit and software to look at and no further royalty problems that looking at someone else's work would bring).

[Ron Barry]

Actually James I dont' think that analogy is too accurate with the 942. P. Smith is correct that it is not a trivial as one would think. Changing out a hardware component on a system is not a trivial task. It is easier if it is pin by pin compatible, but even then there are timing issues and other gotchas that pop us.

Yes the 622 is based of the 942 code base and it is very easy to look at UIs that look the same and come to the conclusion that not a lot of work was needed. Great example of this is the new Mac on the intel. I am sure there was a ton of work just to get the Mac UI running on the Intel platform. I would consider this a better analogy although the 942 to 622 transition in my guess is in a smaller scale. The microsoft analogy is more of taking idea and starting from scratch.

So what does this mean in terms of stability. You have an excellent foundation to work from (the 942). You have built up experience 721, 522, 921, 942 and now the 622. Lot of lessons learned. Time will tell how good the 622 does and hopefully we will see soon what people think of it.

Danny... I understand the need for information and experience on the 622. Hopefully information will start to flow in.

[spaceopera]

omg the people that think the 942 is a good piece of hardware are really drinking the cool aid. The fact of the matter is if the 942 was released to the mass market like a vcr the company would be out of business. The only and I mean the only reason it is not is because there is no competition. If you want a tri-tuner with the ability to record a very modest amount of hd programming then that is want you will get. The ui is awful and there are software bugs and hardware bugs like the one where my hdmi goes black every 45-90min for 2-3 seconds. The 622 may have fixed these and many other issues I sure hope so but they may not have. But make not mistake about it you are buying a 622 you are buying early adopter hardware and poorly made software and if you want dish hd you have no choice you will have to live with it. Trust me I curse this box almost nightly. But, what are you going to do? P.S. I think it is really sucks that we have to wait till april to get upgrade.

-Gene

[tegage]

omg the people that think the 942 is a good piece of hardware are really drinking the cool aid. The fact of the matter is if the 942 was released to the mass market like a vcr the company would be out of business. The only and I mean the only reason it is not is because there is no competition. If you want a tri-tuner with the ability to record a very modest amount of hd programming then that is want you will get. The ui is awful and there are software bugs and hardware bugs like the one where my hdmi goes black every 45-90min for 2-3 seconds. The 622 may have fixed these and many other issues I sure hope so but they may not have. But make not mistake about it you are buying a 622 you are buying early adopter hardware and poorly made software and if you want dish hd you have no choice you will have to live with it. Trust me I curse this box almost nightly. But, what are you going to do? P.S. I think it is really sucks that we have to wait till april to get upgrade.

-Gene

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I love my 942. I find it easy to use and it works flawlessly. It was my favorite purchase of 2005.

[Patriot12]

I would love to have these questions answered by someone who has one of these:

1. Are the HDMI and Component outputs for TV1 both hot (active) at the same time?
2. Does the HDMI output carry digital audio?
3. Will the TV2 Remote be able to change TV1 channels?
4. When it down-converts HD shows to TV2, are they still in a 16:9 format?
5. Does it work with VOIP telephone service?
6. What is the Ethernet connection going to be used for?
7. Can you buy this and subscribe to ala carte programming (i.e. just HD)

[Slordak]

Many of those are excellent questions, Patriot12.

I'd also like to see someone comment on what actually comes in the production version of the box, particularly in terms of cables (DVI-D to HDMI cable, for example, or HDMI to HDMI cable?).

[James Long]

I would love to have these questions answered by someone who has one of these:

1. Are the HDMI and Component outputs for TV1 both hot (active) at the same time?
2. Does the HDMI output carry digital audio?
3. Will the TV2 Remote be able to change TV1 channels?
4. When it down-converts HD shows to TV2, are they still in a 16:9 format?
5. Does it work with VOIP telephone service?
6. What is the Ethernet connection going to be used for?
7. Can you buy this and subscribe to ala carte programming (i.e. just HD)Based on the very similar 211 and comments made:
1) Yes - All outputs always active.
2) Yes - Audio is present
3) Yes - In single mode
4) SD can be letterbox or full screen
5) Yes - If your VOIP is good
6) E* doesn't know yet
7) If you can find someone to sell it to you - There is a $6 fee for not having a basic pack and a $5.99(?) charge for locals (if you want EPG for OTA) that apply. They need an HD only package that bundles it - perhaps for $29.99.

[tomcrown1]

I was a beta tester for Webtv on the Dish player. Any beta tester who is dumb enough to tell you his or her expereince with the unit is leaving themselfs open to
alot of law suits.. Whenever you agree to Beta Test a unit the company have you sign a confidently agreement.

[James Long]

That's why I my comments are based on the 211 and the descriptions E* has provided on their website and through press releases. There isn't any answer there that can't be found with a 'search' of DBSTalk.

[spaceopera]

tegage,
you can respect my opinion and disagree but the fact of the matter is the box is flaky and the software is poorly designed to not let someone who is thinking about buying a box and investing 1k+ with lease and everything is irresponsible. The person requested information about the 622 and a few people mentioned that they have had no problems with there 942 which is basis for the 622. There are many well documented issues with the 942 just because you have not come across them in the usage of you 942 does not make the issues any less real. If I had know of all the issues before I plunked down my money I probably would have gone the d*tv root I would have know what I getting into being that is a Tivo which is by and far a superior interface.

-Gene

[Ron Barry]

Ok guys.. This is the support area and as such no bashing is allowed. This area is designed to discuss issues in a positive light. If you want to discuss your opinions on how flaky, how poorly designed the software is or whose interface is suprior please do so in the general forums.

Lets keep it positive here and and any posts that the moderators consider fall into the rock throwing bucket will not be tolertated here and posts containing such rocks will either edited or removed without warning.

I will let you guys clean up your posts if you like, otherwise at the end of the day I will remove the rocks.

[harsh]

Great example of this is the new Mac on the intel. I am sure there was a ton of work just to get the Mac UI running on the Intel platform.I disagree. In a relatively modular platform like the Unix based Mac, the conversion may just be a matter of firing the UI code up on a new platform. The Unix side provides all of the hardware services and the UI uses them abstractly. The code was more than likely written in a higher level language (as opposed to PowerPC assembly language) making it significantly more portable than Pee Cee software that goes around DirectX.

It is typically a priority with device designers to maintain a substantial level of compatibility with previous generations and since the differences are strictly in the decoding engine, I would imagine that the devices are nearly pin compatible. Aside from some unique features like VoD, I would imagine that the code base is the same as the 942.

[Ron Barry]

That has not been my experience within the companies I have worked for when hardware changes occurred, but I am sure it depends a lot on the hardware changes themselves.

Since I don't work for Dish or Apple I am not sure how much code differences there are so you might be correct. I was mainly using the Apple example because it was a it is migration to another hardware plateform and personally I doubt it was just the fact of firing up the UI. If it was, kudos to the MAC team.

[Patriot12]

Based on the very similar 211 and comments made:
1) Yes - All outputs always active.
2) Yes - Audio is present
3) Yes - In single mode
4) SD can be letterbox or full screen
5) Yes - If your VOIP is good
6) E* doesn't know yet
7) If you can find someone to sell it to you - There is a $6 fee for not having a basic pack and a $5.99(?) charge for locals (if you want EPG for OTA) that apply. They need an HD only package that bundles it - perhaps for $29.99.

3) If TV2 remote can't change TV1 channels, then why are they even bothering putting both TVs on the modulated output. Not much good if you have to go to the receiver to change TV1 channel.
7) Are ala carte people getting the extra channels when Dish adds them with no price increase? I imagine there will be alot of HD channels coming our way soon. Just trying to do a cost analysis between leasing and buying.

[James Long]

3) If TV2 remote can't change TV1 channels, then why are they even bothering putting both TVs on the modulated output. Not much good if you have to go to the receiver to change TV1 channel.
7) Are ala carte people getting the extra channels when Dish adds them with no price increase? I imagine there will be alot of HD channels coming our way soon. Just trying to do a cost analysis between leasing and buying.3) Do you want your kids at TV2 changing your channel at TV1? Having it modulated sounds cool so you can watch "whatever's on on the HD" elsewhere in the house. And if you replace the 5.3 IR remote with the 6.3 UHF remote you should be able to control TV1 wherever TV1's remote is.
7) Current ala carte people will be able to continue to get the channels they are paying for (but nothing more until they upgrade). The pricing I gave was based on new packages.

[Ron Barry]

Moved the MPEG4/MPEG2 discussion out of this thread and into the general area. Please direct your comments with this subject to the following URL.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=52090

[spaceopera]

Ron, I agree I was not trying to do any bashing. But the thread in the case was reviews of the 622. And since people jumped in with their very positive points of view about their 942 I felt that it is important to give a counter balance. When you are asked to commit to such an expensive piece of hardware people should be able to use other peoples experiences as a point of reference. Or why bother asking for reviews on anything?

My opinion is actually fact which is supported by support threads and dish’s own cs. Just call them and ask if the hdmi issue is still open or have they fixed the fragmentation issue etc… I hope the 622 has addressed these and many other issues but we have no way of knowing unless dish tells us.

Positive is find and there are many great things about the 942 and the 622 like the ability to have one box and have two different people watching in two different rooms and the tri turners. But, if you have every used a different system like tivo you will quickly realize just how lacking the software can be. Granted that is an opinion but I will bet my house that if you take any tivo user and give them the dish interface they will go postal. But that is only my opinion.

We should always expect more then what is given to us or else there is never any technical evolution .just look at windows.

-Gene

[tegage]

Ron,

I agree with Gene. I thought the tone of the emails was "civil enough" and pertinent to the discussion.

Gene - I understand you have had issues with your 942, but if these issues, for whatever reason, don't affect the majority of the 942 owners (an assumption on my part) then, in my opinion, the 942 is a safe purchase for people to make and hopefully (we don't know yet), the 622 will be as well.

People on forums tend to discuss issues they are having with equipment (as they should), but rarely discuss the positive. People should never base a purchasing decision based solely on what they read on a forum (my opinion). You can read horror stories about the best cars, TVs, Receivers, etc. on forums. What people rarely share on forums is their positive experiences so I thought I would share mine.

Also, I have had no HDMI issues, but my unit is fairly new. Maybe this is something that was fixed.

Todd

[Ron Barry]

Todd and Gene,

Just so I clarify.. Did not have any issues with the discussion going back and forth. The issue I had was with some of Gene's comments about drinking the coolaid, poorly designed software, suprior interface etc. Though valid opinions on a any embedded device or piece of software, the official forums are suppose to be Dish bash free. There are reasons for this and that is why we point to the general areas for these type of discussions. These discussion are allowed in the general forums as long as people remain civil and reasonable.

Hope this clarifies my position and if you have any questions. Feel free to send me a PM.

[Gutter]

Todd and Gene,

the official forums are suppose to be Dish bash free.
Hope this clarifies my position and if you have any questions. Feel free to send me a PM.


This is a shock!!! Why.. isn't this a place to discuss? I have a 942 and I am very happy with it but those that have issues should be allowed ..."Official" forms or not... to say their peace. If you don't allow critisism, than you shouldn't allow positives either. I am still trying to figure out what makes this an "officialy" sanctioned discussion by DISHNET. I can't find it so stated on their website.:nono2:

Please feel free to move this post to the appropriate discusion form. I can't find one that fits.

[Ron Barry]

First off .. Gene, I think you might be reading a bit more into what I said. This is a place to discuss issues.

I sent this to a few users that are a bit confused. Figure I might as well post it here.

The reason why negative bashing is not allowed in the support forms if very simple. We want to create a postive environment to discuss issues where Dish engineers can go without having rocks tossed at them.

I am a Software Engineer and I know if I came into forums and had to wade through comments like "Your UI sucks" Where does dish get their engineers.. High School? Dish software is poorly architected etc. I would not come back or would drop wondering over here to a very low priority.

That is why positive comments are allowed. We did not say that negative comments are not allowed but that is where judgement calls are made. If someone is having a problem and echos frustration in a neutral way, that posts will stay. If someone says it while throwing a rock or two, the post will be removed, moved, or edited.

Does that make things more clear? Yes the support areas are to discuss issues and since they are problems they can at times become negative. What you have to do as person feeding information in is try and keep emotions out of the post. Nothing wrong with echoing some frustration but comments about how their software sucks is crossing the line. The general forums is where comments of that nature goes.

The rule of thumb I tell people: If you read it from the perspective of the other side of the fence and if you feel the slight bit offended, you might want to tone it down. Since we all have a different sensibility filter, sometimes this rule of thumb does not work.

[Stewart Vernon]

Seems reasonably simple to me...

Don't say: "Your xxx sucks" or "Company YYY is full of ZZZ"

Do say: "I am having the following with my xxx" or "Company YYY could do a better job in communicating with its customers"

:)

If someone comes up to your desk at work and tell you that you are full of crap... how quick do you try and address their problem? Vs the person who politely asks for your time to discuss a problem that you might be able to fix.