2nd half of the year promotions suck big time

[jeffwtux]

I'm a dishnetwork retailer, but I'm never shy away from harshly critizing the company when I think they screwing up. Their promotions have just kept getting worse and worse since "I Like 9" expired. First of all they going back to the original Digital Home Plan where they only gave the first month free. Until they changed it to 3 months free of basic+locals, I barely made any DHP sales at all. It just wasn't a good deal. Now they're going back to it. DIsh had the edge by far with 3 and 4 receiver systems, not anym ore.
Then instead of making a better 2 receiver promtion, they eliminated it. Now if you want a 2 receiver system, you have to buy the 2nd one at full price(unless they extend CLUB Dish DHP which they didn't mention). Yeah, I do get $65 in activation and installation commissions, but that still makes it $35, if I don't take $1. DirecTV is not clearly a better deal for 1 or 2 receiver systems and not much worse for 3 or 4. I think I'm going to be looking for a job soon, or switch to DirecTV.
All you people can fall in love with the 721 all you want, the fact is price of programming and intro promotions are the only thing most of my customers base their decisions on. These promotions are pathetic.

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, but it is ALL subscription programming now. No more extra charge for movies if they subscribe to the Everything Pack or distant nets. I think it is a good change. The customer still gets a bill a week after it is installed (instead of 2 months later as it is now), and it is only for 1 month of service (the second month in advance). I think it should be less confusing than it is now. I believe they will come out with a new promo within the next couple of months to replace the non-cc 123 FREE promo. I don't think it will be as good as I Like 9, though. Justin

[Jacob S]

What do you mean there is no more extra charge for movies if you sub to the everything or distant nets, u mean ppv? I think they should have a flat rate for all channels including ppv or a unlimited ppv purchace deal.

Also I dont understand what you mean by getting a bill two months later now instead of a bill a week later, because customers do currently get a bill for two months a week later now, which is for the current month and the next month, and each bill after that is for the next month, keeping the customer ahead one month.

[Mainstreet]

It covers all subscription programming... Unfortunately, PPV is not subscription programming, so it doesn't count. But movie channels - like HBO - do.

Currently on the DHP, the customer gets three months free. So, if they only subscribe to basic (up to AT150), they don't see a bill until their free programming is up. They get a bill two months later for their fourth month of service. It is due a couple weeks after they receive it, and is for a month in advance.

Now, they will just get a bill for one month of programming for the next month.

[jeffwtux]

People aren't stupid, they can add, multiiply and divide. The 3 months free DHP was worth a minimum of $110.97 in savings and that was for 1 receiver, AT100, and no locals. This promo is worth a maximum of $98.98. That's for 4 receivers, America's Everything, and locals. That same package would net a $200.94 savings with the 3 months free. How can you people say that the new version is better? Are you guys just paid DishNetwork company sucikups?? BTW, my company name is Grand River Networks, I'm not afraid to trash the Dish when they suck aparently, you people are. You can spin it any way you want. The fact is that my customers don't buy the spin, they buy the best deal they can get, and these deals suck. You people go ahead and convince yourself that the new version is better, just don't expect your potential customer to think the same.

[jeffwtux]

I wonder how they are going to change their website to reflect these changes, especially with ditching 123 FREE, 123 Great TV altogether. Currently, if yu are interested in getting DishNetwork, the first thing they ask you is how many TVs do you want(funny, that's the same question I ask first). What are they going to suggest if you say 2? How about, "Get DirecTV and you'll be switched over when the merger is approved" . Clearly, they don't care about gaining customers at all right now. They'll let DirecTV acquire the customers, and when the merger ques through, they'll get them anyways.
If the merger goes throu, they file for bankruptcy, lovely strategy.

[jeffwtux]

Reply to Mainstree:
"I believe they will come out with a new promo within the next couple of months to replace the non-cc 123 FREE promo. I don't think it will be as good as I Like 9, though."

I sure hope you're right about that. Frankly, it doesn't even have to be better, if you factor in the $50 price drop in 301 systems and the $50 price drop in standalones since November, 2001. I'm not sure if DishNetwork actually has lower manufacturing costs now, or if they are just lowering the price and taking a $50, or if they were pricing it at $199, and $149 to recoup design costs which are probably recouped.
Whatever it is, with 301 systems being $149, and standalones being $99, a 2 receiver system is $100 less at MSRP than it was in fall 2001. I like 9 was worth $276. All they would have to do is give a 2 receiver system installed free, and give the full reimbursements on 301s. That would be worth $248, and maybe require AT100 instead of AT50.
But I'm frankly not hopeful about this or any other good promotion. Right now, if you say you want a 2 receiver system, it should tell you to go to DirecTV.

[Kevin]

I agree that the Dish promotions have been going downhill recently. Nothing will ever beat the promotion that they were offering when I first subscribed 2 years ago: free basic installation, free Dish 500, a free model 3900 (3800 at the time) reciever, 3 free months of all the premium movie packages if you committed to AT150 for a year, and a $50 credit on your neighbor's Dish account of they recommended you to the service. The dealer even threw in a free dish cover. That promo is what made me choose Dish Network over DirecTV at the time, since both services were pretty much equal. If Dish reinstated good promotions like that again, many alienated cable subs would come flocking to Dish!

[Jacob S]

I believe the best deal was the I like 9 because that is when I was the busiest since I converted Primestar customers to Dish Network my first year of business. Since they did lower the system price $50 then they would not have to give such a great deal as I Like 9 because they automatically have $50 less in the system anyhow. If they would just give incremental credits each month like $10-$15 a month off or free movie package(s) or something for the first year then that would get some customers.

How about this: Commit to Top 50 for one year, get 1 free premium package, Commit to Top 100 for one year, get 2 free premium packages, Commit to Top 150 for one year, get 3 or 4 free premium packages (America's Everything Package). This would be good for the customer and good for Dish Network. They would be giving the customer an extra something and maybe more than before while generating a guaranteed increased monthly income for the more they give free to the customer.

They could even give free PPV movie coupons or free premiums for purchasing the 501 or 721.

I dont see why they dont come up with a point system with each point giving credit on your montly bill and giving so many points for a referral, for signing up, for paying on time, etc.

[jeffwtux]

Reply to Jacob S:

I also agree that "I Like 9" was the best. It was not only the best DishNetwork promotion. It was the best deal in the history of television. However, they don't have to offer that promotion exactly. Free Dish might be enough to hold the fort for 1 receiver installs. As for 2 receiver systems, the 123 Great TV is actually a BETTER DEAL than "I Like 9" was for 2 receiver systems when you factor in the drop in price of the systems and stand alones. If they just offer 123 Great TV for $149 for 2 receiver systems(what the price was from March 15-April 30, that would be better than I Like 9 was. However, I'm doubtful that they will do this. Clearly, they have decided that the 3 months free thing, doesn't work, because they have changed DHP back to 1 month free and trashed 123 Free.
However, they better do something or they will go under. Why are they going to spend all this money developing these new receivers, as well as their new LNB technology, don't forget that people, if they aren't going to offer promotions that will entice people to get them. They have sell or lease enough systems pay off all their design costs.

[Jacob S]

I dont think the 123 Great Tv deal was better than I like 9 even when the second receiver was free and I dont think it would be a better deal even at the current price Dish equipment is and I tell you why, the second receiver is worth $100, free programming may only be about $100 if the customer just gets top 100 some may get less some may get more, and the $50 off to $149 for a system dont add up to $276, and the customer has to have a credit card to get the 3 free months in which most of my customers dont have or dont watn to use, so when that promo came out my sales dropped big time. It probably dont make much of a difference in my sales whether that deal was out or not. The only way it would be a better deal is if someone ordered a LOT of movie channels or America's Everything pack, and then the customer would not be able to afford the bills that would start coming in and it would be more likely for chargeback.

I dont think Dish has to come up with a good deal THAT good to bring in a LOT of customers, and when that deal came out I was thinking 'are they crazy?' that they did not have to have such deep discounts as that to get a customer but they could have been just a little less like maybe $15 a month for that package or maybe charge $9 for the top 50 to get more cashflow so that people would ugrade to top 100.

[DRJDAN]

I was looking at a brochure at Costco today and they show the current 3 month free programing as expiring on 7/31/02. Why are you referencing it running out 6/30/02.

[Mainstreet]

Originally posted by DRJDAN
I was looking at a brochure at Costco today and they show the current 3 month free programing as expiring on 7/31/02. Why are you referencing it running out 6/30/02.

You are correct. The changes don't take affect until 8/1/02:

• DIGITAL HOME PLAN: effective August 1, 2002, DHP will be extended through January 12, 2003 with 1 month FREE of subscription-based programming instead of 3 months free.
• $49.99 Activation Fee for up to 4 Receivers!
• The first month of the following are Free!
• The first month of all subscription. Please note: Free Programming does NOT include Pay-Per-View.
• Local DMA channels (where available).
• Equipment Fees of $5 for each receiver (including the primary receiver) is also FREE for the first month!
• DISH Entertainment Magazine!
• Valid major credit card, an annual commitment and Social Security Number are required. All Digital Home Plan activations are credit card qualified and must meet a minimum credit score.

[cnsf]

Keep in mind that once the merger details are hashed out, you should see new promotions coming online again. They're probably taking a "wait and see" attitude.

They are not pursuing the market as aggressively right now (e.g. the NY area YES network issue) because of the pending merger.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by cnsf
Keep in mind that once the merger details are hashed out, you should see new promotions coming online again. They're probably taking a "wait and see" attitude.

They are not pursuing the market as aggressively right now (e.g. the NY area YES network issue) because of the pending merger. They should operate as "business as usual" until the merger is official. What they're doing right now is ridiculous and unethical. They shouldn't be neglecting their customers because if the merger doesn't go through for some reason, then they're pretty much screwed.

[psecic]

They're waiting for the merger.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by Kevin
They should operate as "business as usual" until the merger is official. What they're doing right now is ridiculous and unethical. They shouldn't be neglecting their customers because if the merger doesn't go through for some reason, then they're pretty much screwed.

What's ridiculous or unethical about changing promotions?:confused:

They've done this since day one, quarter by quarter. Sometimes the promotions are "better" for some customers, sometimes not as good for others.

Sometimes the customer aquisition costs are to high for the number of new customers that are added vs. the number that churn, etc.

This is just business as usual.

And the customers that deal with independent local professional retailers are not neglected.

[jeffwtux]

HTGuy:
I'm an independent retailer, and I give on average about 35% of my commission away back to my customers, which I might add is against the rules. Dish could if they wanted to revoke my license for doing so. However, I can only go so far. I won't make a sale unless I can provide a 2 receiver system with the 1 year average monthly payments for AT100+locals, with any install fees averaged in to the first year, for less than analog cable on 1 TV. I did that from March 25-May 1. Then 123 Great TV was just $149 for a 2 receiver system. I did it for just $50. With 123 Free, I have to charge $100, which would make the first year average month be about $41. I can't make a sale at that price. I wouldn't buy it at that price.

[Richard King]

They should operate as "business as usual" until the merger is official. What they're doing right now is ridiculous and unethical.
It is not rediculous, nor is it unethical. They are operating the business as usual. As was pointed out, changes happen in promotions on a regular basis and this is simply another cycle in the process. The management at Dish is smarter than to count chickens, especially under current market and regulatory considerations. To get worked up over this is just plain silly.

[Nick]

Richard, that is one weird uuugly avatar you have there. Please revert back to the "Coming Soon..." default avatar until you can come up with something that resembles Catherine Bell on the cover of FMH mag. :lol:


Nickster :cool:

[Scott Greczkowski]

Nick,

Catherine Bell? I always thought you were a Bea Arthour type of guy. :D

(Ducking)

[lee635]

Another thread notes continued strength in DBS subscriber acquisitions with E* outpacing D*. So why not throttle back a bit on the giveaways and keep the margins up? Also, we don't know what the churn rate is on some of these deals.

As a longtime subscriber, I don't want to be subsidizing low ball installers who sign up new customers for a song (and without a credit card :rolleyes: ) who roll back to cable after the bill arrives.

[Jacob S]

Yeah, growth if the promotions continue to be good but since they want to give the new customers less, their return will be less, given that at the time that they predicted dish would outpace directv and that it would be continued strength was when dish had aggressive promotions, things can change when dish changes its promotion to not be as aggressive.

How is it against Dish's rules to give 35% of your commissions to the customer? We dont work for Dish, we work independently to ourselves and can set our own price for our products and service. Our competition keeps us in check most of the time.

[Richard King]

Richard, that is one weird uuugly avatar you have there.
I am highly offended in that that picture was taken as a self portrait using the timer function on my digital camera. Trouble is the camera hasn't worked right since. Do you think I broke it? :lol:

[HTguy]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
HTGuy:
I'm an independent retailer, and I give on average about 35% of my commission away back to my customers, which I might add is against the rules. Dish could if they wanted to revoke my license for doing so. However, I can only go so far. I won't make a sale unless I can provide a 2 receiver system with the 1 year average monthly payments for AT100+locals, with any install fees averaged in to the first year, for less than analog cable on 1 TV. I did that from March 25-May 1. Then 123 Great TV was just $149 for a 2 receiver system. I did it for just $50. With 123 Free, I have to charge $100, which would make the first year average month be about $41. I can't make a sale at that price. I wouldn't buy it at that price.

Far be it from me to criticise your philosophy or business practices but I'm unsure why you feel the need to provide a better service on 2 TVS for less than your cable co. does for 1. :shrug:

DBS subs, as a rule get more channels, more features & better service than cable for about the same price. That's why DBS is growing.

You don't have to run your business like a charity but, if you choose to do so, good for you. Just don't expect E* to do so even tho some of their promos have made it seem like they are. IF they go out of business we'll all be the losers.

[jeffwtux]

Basic cable doesn't charge per TV so unless you have a analog box, the charge for 1 TV is the charge for 5 TVs and of course that includes locals. That's why I have to beat their rate for 1 TV with my rate for 2 TVs. The fact is that satellite is, was, and will always be the second choice. If your city has a good cable deal, almost nobody has a satellite dish. Thus I have to beat the cable's price or what's the point. 90% of disgruntled cable viewers are angry about the price first.

[sean_m]

While some cable companies may offer great signup deals, others do not. I was with comcast for awhile (while in an apartment, dish could have been done here but would have had to been inside) and there prices were reasonable, though no better than the satellites. You did get the locals though for the price.

Upon moving to an Adelphia serviced area (prior to their current bookkeeping problems) I called to inquire about pricing. Ridiculous!! Their overall pricing wasn't much more than sat for about the same programing but additional programing added up quicker than sat. If you wanted some additional channels that weren't in the basic services you may be forced to digital which adds further to the monthly cost and eliminates the choice of anything on any x number of tvs. In addition, even though the prior homeowner had adelphia here, they wanted to charge an additional $31.95 to check the cable run to the first tv. My decision was made. Sat.

Part of this debate depends on want your personal desires are though.

I have seen the 501 and really like what it can do. I am waiting on mine right now. To achieve the same thing in cable, or even in D* means I am going to have to pay an extra $12-$13 per month, or a onetime (additional fee of $250) for use of service. In addition, I am going to have to pay substantially more for the recording box itself. Add it all up and E* is the hands down winner.
The advantages I see in cable are: Analog service means as many tvs as you like. No dishes littering your house, automatically get the locals.

[jeffwtux]

Sean_M: your last line sums it up well. Fortunately, the majority only need 2 TVs, which means I don't have to do DHP. However, after Aug 1, Dish won't have a decent plan to satisfy those customers which are the bread and butter.

[Jacob S]

Yes but they may have a new promotion by the time August rolls around even though they are cancelling the current ones.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Yes but they may have a new promotion by the time August rolls around even though they are cancelling the current ones.

My area rep told me last week that there would be a new promo to replace 1-2-3 for C&C custs.

[Jacob S]

Most of my customers dont have credit cards and the very few that do dont want to use them. I hope they have a new promo for non credit card customers because if they dont then there is not much hpe for my business since most of it is made up of people that dont have credit cards due to the fact that most people here dont have them or dont believe in them.

[Nick]

Nick said: "Richard, that is one weird uuugly avatar you have there. Please revert back to the "Coming Soon..." default avatar until you can come up with something that resembles Catherine Bell on the cover of FMH mag. :lol:"

To which Rking401 replied:

"I am highly offended in that that picture was taken as a self portrait using the timer function on my digital camera. Trouble is the camera hasn't worked right since. Do you think I broke it? :lol:"

Absolutely amazing, Richard! I am honored to have my name emblazoned upon Cathy Bell's countenance. Your talents far exceed our expectations of you. Keep off the grass. ;)


Nickster :cool:

[Jacob S]

Looks like they took some advice and came out with the promotion for the rest of the year starting next month by coming out with a promotion that does reimburse for the system through programming credits without a credit card required, just as I had hoped for. I was just thinking why dont they give $12.50 increments per month for a year and thats just what they did after I had thought about it, not sure if I had posted the idea on any of the forums or not but was going to, its like they were reading my mind or something.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by HTguy


My area rep told me last week that there would be a new promo to replace 1-2-3 for C&C custs.

Toldja so! :p

;)