Vip 622 Installation Question...

[deffers]

622 was delivered yesterday by UPS. Installation is Scheduled for 2/25 to put in a Dish 1000. My question, will I need to run 2 additional coax cables to hook this receiver up?
1 for the 2nd tuner and the other for OTA HD Locals. I currently have only one cable run to this location with a diplexer installed.

[kmcnamara]

If you have a Dish Pro Plus lnb or switch, you can probably use the splitter that came with the 622 for the 2 sat inputs. Based on the OTA frequency, I'm pretty sure you can still use your diplexer on one of the cables for the OTA. This is what I'm hoping to be able to do when I get my 622.

[Fifty Caliber]

That's not a splitter that comes with the ViP622, it's a separator. These two terms are not interchangable as they reffer to devices with different functions.

[Rogueone]

more precisely, the LNB has a multiplexer(aka mux) in it, which is a device that takes multipe signals and layers them onto a single cable in a fashion that allows the different signals to stay unique and be easy detectable. At the receiver you would have a demultiplexer(aka demux) which works with the same layering as the mux, but does the opposite, and undoes the muxing so the individual signals can be connected to their intended locations.

a splitter simply duplicates an input to 2 outputs, hence it's a dumb device. a Mux/Demux combo are intelligent devices and are always a matched pair (in the sense they have to be designed to work together)

[James Long]

It would be interesting to see just what a separator does. It is a simple box ... looks more like a DP Splitter than anything else. DPP is still stacked like DP except the second half of the feed can be from any polarity of any satellite instead of both halves of the stack being from the same satellite. I would not be suprised if all the DPP separator did was power block feed #2 and share the signal between the two input ports.

It certainly doesn't look like it has the complexity of a mux/demux situation.
Mux yes -- the DPP is a intelegent switch. The separator just doesn't have 'brains'.

[Rogueone]

well, all it would likely need is some phasing, maybe it's got some simplistic diode/capacitor circuit or such. maybe the dpp sends something like an AC signal and the + wave goes to output 1, and the - wave goes to output 2? :) it doesn't have to be overly complex, it just has to know how to undo the muxing :)

then again, (haven't seen this splitter thingy and don't have dpp so trying to draw this image in my head), the dpp puts 3 sats on one cable yes? does that cable have to pass thru a switch? is it still one cable from there to the rcvr? If there is only one cable at the rcvr, then it would make more sense that the DPP mux simply puts the signals across a wider range of frequencies than a single LNB would need (which would explain the instruction that DPP needs like 2150Khz or something range on the coax versus 1450 or something for a DP system). In that case, a simple splitter at the rcvr would seem to work as long as it was capable of the same 2150 range. And then the rcvr just needs to know how to read them all. I'm thinking that may make more sense :)

It's not so much a mux/demux situation as a mux from overlapping ranges to consecutive ranges on the cable. that would seem to make more sense huh? :)

[deffers]

After unpacking the 622, I found a Separator in the bottom of the box under the packaging material. It looks just like a splitter. The input range is 950-2150 MHz, the 2 outputs are labeled as SAT 1 IN and SAT 2 IN. It appears that the output port labeled SAT 1 IN passes the power.
The diplexer which is currently installed on my PVR 508 only works in the range of 950 - 2050 MHz for the satellite feed which does not match the Separator's frequency.
So instead of running another coax for OTA channels, I will look for a diplexer to match the frequency range of the separtator and should be able to get all 3 inputs to the 622 on 1 cable run.
What do you guys think?

[bigrick]

That would be the thing to do, and as for the higher frequency, it's bvecause they use the loer frequency for the odd trnsponders something from 950-1450 and the higher ones, around 1650-2150 for the even trnsponders. That's 500 mhz each. That is why if you have a switch test that fails the higher frequencies in the test, your cable needs replacing usually. maybe rg59, or too many kinks or bad fittings. I am pretty sure the seperater just blocks power to input 2 and phases the signal when it splits it.

[bethlehem]

And I suppose that this seperator does the job without any loss of pic quality? I only have one RG6 line now and had planned on running another line to the house. Maybe I can just use the seperator. :hurah:

[Bill R]

And I suppose that this seperator does the job without any loss of pic quality?

You are correct. Remember, that on satellite everything is digital. A signal of 70 will look as good as a signal of 99.


A Dish Pro Plus LNB can stack two signals on to one coax. At the other end (the receiver) you use the seperator to unstack those signals and feed them to the two satellite tuners.

[James Long]

then again, (haven't seen this splitter thingy and don't have dpp so trying to draw this image in my head), the dpp puts 3 sats on one cable yes? does that cable have to pass thru a switch? is it still one cable from there to the rcvr? If there is only one cable at the rcvr, then it would make more sense that the DPP mux simply puts the signals across a wider range of frequencies than a single LNB would need (which would explain the instruction that DPP needs like 2150Khz or something range on the coax versus 1450 or something for a DP system). In that case, a simple splitter at the rcvr would seem to work as long as it was capable of the same 2150 range. And then the rcvr just needs to know how to read them all. I'm thinking that may make more sense :)

It's not so much a mux/demux situation as a mux from overlapping ranges to consecutive ranges on the cable. that would seem to make more sense huh? :)Having not seen one I can understand why you might think the separator is a complex device. If you peeled off the label you probably couldn't tell the separator from a splitter or mini diplexer.

It has a black line coming from the input to satellite 1 labeled "DC & DISEqC PASS" - which is what the DP splitter does (one receiver powers and could control the LNB while the other LNB just gets to listen in).

The DP system is an inverted stack. Legacy LNBs output one polarity or the other (based on voltage) on the band between 950 and 1450. DP stacks the second polarity above the first from the same satellite. A DP switch or twin/quad LNB chooses one satellite and sends both polarities of the same satellite down the cable at the same time.

DPP takes it a step further. Like legacy, one polarity of one satellite is transmitted between 950-1450. This can be either polarity of any satellite on the switch (the DPP44 has four satellite inputs, the DPPTwin LNB has three satellite inputs). But the stacked satellite feed can be any satellite or polarity available on the switch.

The complicated part of this takes place in the switch. Picking between up to four input feeds and then picking a polarity then mixing it with another input feed and polarity. The receiver knows what DISEqC commands to send to the switch to select the feeds. That little separator behind the receiver doesn't have to know anything. All it has to do is prevent the DC power from Satellite 2 from passing through while passing the signal meant for Satellite 2 through the separator.

I doubt if any unstacking is even being done in the separator. The receiver is capable of using DP feeds with normal DP stacking. It would only be software to tell tuner 1 to pretend it is legacy and tuner 2 to look higher for the inverted legacy.

[Rogueone]

so, I have DP 500/300. When it comes time for the 622 install, would it seem reasonable that I could request an upgrade to DPP? I currently have 3 cables running into my house, one for each lnb, then my OTA is piggybacking one of them. If I plan to have 2 rcvrs (though I could drop to 1), I'd only need 1 or 2 cables right?

This all got me to thinking if I could use DPP gear to free up one of those 3 cables up top, so I could run my OTA feed on it's own cable with an amp if needed, and fewer splitters/diplexers to cut down on loss. would this seem to be a reasonable solution? is it likely the installer would agree to upgrade me to DPP?

and, since I have 3 cables going to the 921 now, I could make that 1 DPP, 1 OTA, and the 3rd could become the coax distribution feed back to the area I send cable from to my other tv's.

[James Long]

If you can get a DPP44 out of your installer it would be the best answer. One cable to each receiver and your third cable free to for OTA including the amplifier.

[BobaBird]

It would be interesting to see just what a separator does.Based on this early picture, it's a diplexer that sends the lower DP band to input 1 and the upper DP band to input 2.
http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2003/3/MVC-021S.JPG

[James Long]

Interesting. Thanks Boba.