Rumor: DirecTV to buy TiVo...again?

[morgantown]

I find it hard to believe, but the rumor mill has once again created this one. Anyone else even hear anything remotely similar?

I guess TiVo would be a relatively "cheap" investment for DirecTV, but I still find this very hard to believe.

[Earl Bonovich]

I have heard and seen the rumor.

There is also a posting, I think regarding Newsweek mag.. with an article about Cicso possible wanting to purchase TiVo.

A lot of it has spawned from the lackluster results TiVo posted last week.
And the growth of DirecTV's DVR/Home Media plans.
The success of the latest Dish DVR
Microsoft getting ready to release Vista later this year..

[morgantown]

Yea, http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11768175/site/newsweek/

Kinda make be feel bad for the little TiVo guy. At least NewsWeek did get the reference to the DirecTV DVR "correct."

[iamme4everup]

makes me think on page 64 of their investor pdf file,. 59 from one on their siyte, that tivo (or whaever they coming up with) will be the backbone of their new recommendation engine in 2007

[wipeout]

I would love to see D* buy T*. I will not move to MPEG4 equipment because it is not T* based.

[jfalkingham]

It would make sense for news corp to buy Tivo as part of its nds offering. Slowly convert the naming to NDS or viceversa. DirecTV as a customer would require the tivo technology while wrapping it in their skin. Same for Comcast or whomever else has agreements. You'll see a massive campaign like "Tivo inside" logo or something similar where the control and look is controlled by the content owner and the technology driven by a stable mature DVR engine.

The search capability & extended features on Tivo are better than what DTV is offering on the R15. For the short amount of money it would cost, it just makes sense. Plus it can continue to go after echostar for the patent infringements :lol:

[morgantown]

It would make sense for news corp to buy Tivo as part of its nds offering. Slowly convert the naming to NDS or viceversa. DirecTV as a customer would require the tivo technology while wrapping it in their skin. Same for Comcast or whomever else has agreements. You'll see a massive campaign like "Tivo inside" logo or something similar where the control and look is controlled by the content owner and the technology driven by a stable mature DVR engine.

The search capability & extended features on Tivo are better than what DTV is offering on the R15. For the short amount of money it would cost, it just makes sense. Plus it can continue to go after echostar for the patent infringements :lol:

I sure the NDS customers would love a "TiVo Inside" approach. At least 99.9%, at least.

[rabit ears]

TiVo will be purchased and it will be by the Borg (Cisco).

First, the TiVo - Comcast deal kills any possibility for TiVo to even consider a sale to DTV.
Second - combining the TiVo software with the SA hardware and customers all but puts Moto out of the business and Cisco won't play if they can't be #1.
Third - Tivo's headquarters are 1.7 miles from John Chambers' office, we have reports of seeing his little maroon Jag going up and down Zanker Road several times a day in the last week.

It will be absolutly fascinating to see how News Corp reacts to a competitor with $16 billion in the bank and a quarterly cash flow that's almost double their's. I have a vision of Rupert laying on his back asking Chambers to rub his belly - no wait, that would be me. Rupert would probably do something else.:hurah:

[Capmeister]

I would love to see D* buy T*. I will not move to MPEG4 equipment because it is not T* based.

Same here, unless/until the MPEG4 DVR from D* is good enough.

[morgantown]

TiVo will be purchased and it will be by the Borg (Cisco).

First, the TiVo - Comcast deal kills any possibility for TiVo to even consider a sale to DTV.
Second - combining the TiVo software with the SA hardware and customers all but puts Moto out of the business and Cisco won't play if they can't be #1.
Third - Tivo's headquarters are 1.7 miles from John Chambers' office, we have reports of seeing his little maroon Jag going up and down Zanker Road several times a day in the last week.

It will be absolutly fascinating to see how News Corp reacts to a competitor with $16 billion in the bank and a quarterly cash flow that's almost double their's. I have a vision of Rupert laying on his back asking Chambers to rub his belly - no wait, that would be me. Rupert would probably do something else.:hurah:

Well, Cisco should by TiVo AND DirecTV :).

[Earl Bonovich]

TiVo will be purchased and it will be by the Borg (Cisco).

First, the TiVo - Comcast deal kills any possibility for TiVo to even consider a sale to DTV.
Second - combining the TiVo software with the SA hardware and customers all but puts Moto out of the business and Cisco won't play if they can't be #1.
Third - Tivo's headquarters are 1.7 miles from John Chambers' office, we have reports of seeing his little maroon Jag going up and down Zanker Road several times a day in the last week.

It will be absolutly fascinating to see how News Corp reacts to a competitor with $16 billion in the bank and a quarterly cash flow that's almost double their's. I have a vision of Rupert laying on his back asking Chambers to rub his belly - no wait, that would be me. Rupert would probably do something else.:hurah:


I am not disagreeing that CICSO may be the purchaser, but...

The Comcast deal doesn't stop anything... there are always clauses in those contracts to still allow things like this. It could mean a disolve of the comcast contract, but there is certainly a clause.

IMHO... there are three pieces that DirecTV would want from the purchase... It is pretty much a drop in the bucket for them...

1) The NAME TiVo.... it basically has become the defacto name for dvring
2) The WishList and Suggestions where way ahead of their time, and patented pretty well.
3) They have so much intimate knowledge of the inner guts of the TiVo... it reduces a major risk of their units being sued for code copy reasons.

[Bobman]

Never going to happen. If DirecTV was so pleased with TiVo then they never would have got rid of them in the first place. Just another false rumor.

[Earl Bonovich]

Very different aspects of the buisness world...

We where not in any of the conference rooms during any discussion between TiVo and DirecTV, regarding the contract for service.

It is not uncommon in the buisness world... If you can't strike a deal... Big Dog buy's little dog.

Especially when little dog is a public company.

[Wolffpack]

Especially when little dog is a public company.
And when little dog isn't doing so well financially.

[socceteer]

I think that who ever buys Tivo is going to buy great technology and more than that Tivo understand the consumer. As far as I am concerned the have they best product in the DVR industry.

User friendly, easy to navigate, great search and subscription capabilities. able to record off the internet and now off your Verizon phone. Also a feature that no other offers. The capability to display your pictures and music from your computer via wireless technology.

So you have an integrated media center and DVR in one. Plus their new HD box or the DVR with DVD burn in one.

I always heard my friends talk about it, so I bought 1 for $69 after rebate of $150 and I love it. I have played with Replay TV, Dish 921 DVR and now Tivo. It is the best.

[cabanaboy1977]

If D* does by T* and combines the tech with thiers, that would be ok by me, as long as the add PIP in the guide and quick guide recording (aka Record, Record to setup the series links).

[morgantown]

If D* does by T* and combines the tech with thiers, that would be ok by me, as long as the add PIP in the guide and quick guide recording (aka Record, Record to setup the series links).

If DirecTV did buy TiVo, I doubt they would kick NDS to the street. One would think that it would be more of a collaborative approach -- should it ever actually happen.

[Wolffpack]

If DirecTV did buy TiVo, I doubt they would kick NDS to the street. One would think that it would be more of a collaborative approach -- should it ever actually happen.
That is, no doubt, correct. Not necessarily good, but correct.

While we're all speculating on something which will never happen, in my opinion, think about the talking points:

NDS has yet to develop/release a DVR that is favored by it's customers.
DTV/NDS have given us a glimpse of that they are planning for the future like the HMC and I don't think NDS, as it sits now, can deliver that product.
Add Tivo's software, patents and staff, DTV just might be able to pull this off.

Plus, as far as a contract such as the Comcast contract, DTV could honor that deal, providing a Tivo based DVR to Comcast and whoever else would pay the price. But it wouldn't necessarily require that all features available to DTV Tivo users would be available to Comcast Tivo users. Look to the past, DTV didn't enable MRV and HMO on the DTivos that were sold even though those capabilities existed in the Tivo code. They could do the same with a deal such as this. DTV Tivos contain all features and Comcast Tivos contain a subset of those features.

[thumperr]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11768175/site/newsweek/
The above article is the authors take on the fact he doesn't think Cisco will buy Tivo, now that they purchased Scientific Atlantic.

I also don't think Cisco and D* are really competitors. My take on this is that Cisco wants to supply the equipement at the center of the digital living room. So they want to supply Comcast, Time Warner, Verizon, etc... now whether they ever would supply D* is an interesting technical question. Cisco would want to supply IP based systems in the future, essentially IPTV. I'm not sure how pratical IPTV over satelittle ever would be. Current delivery is a one way delivery mechanism satelitte sends to user. most IP based protocols require some type of bidirectional communication. I guess you maybe able to do something one directional with Multicasting or UDP.

I still think D* may purchase TIVO in the future. D* is 40 time larger in Market Cap. If TIVO wins anything against DISH then buying TIVO would cover D* against any future patent infringment claims.

[harsh]

I think that who ever buys Tivo is going to buy great technology and more than that Tivo understand the consumer.The question then becomes: what do they do with it? Look at what has happened to all of the companies that Microsoft has bought out; 90% of it has been flushed down the digital waste disposal.

I wasn't optimistic about TiVo's future before and I'm even more convinced that it will simply become a set of patents over which the buyer sues everybody else. The personnel will be raided for other projects and there will be a lot of TiVo faithful wimpering about it.

[socceteer]

The question then becomes: what do they do with it? Look at what has happened to all of the companies that Microsoft has bought out; 90% of it has been flushed down the digital waste disposal.

I wasn't optimistic about TiVo's future before and I'm even more convinced that it will simply become a set of patents over which the buyer sues everybody else. The personnel will be raided for other projects and there will be a lot of TiVo faithful wimpering about it.
Good point, sometimes companies like Microsoft and other large corporations buy the competition to get them out of the market more than using their technology. When it comes to Microsoft, they usually get it right. They also understand their consumers.

I would think that Direct TV and COMCAST would save a lot of money and headaches by buying existing proven technology, than invent their own at a high cost and not have it work right until the 3rd or 4rth generation.. ! not very good will ..!

[morgantown]

The question then becomes: what do they do with it? Look at what has happened to all of the companies that Microsoft has bought out; 90% of it has been flushed down the digital waste disposal.

I wasn't optimistic about TiVo's future before and I'm even more convinced that it will simply become a set of patents over which the buyer sues everybody else.

I like another approach also discussed elsewhere (TCF, etc.). Use the "TiVo Inside" approach and let it go out to Comcast and anyone else, including the NDS customer base. Scale it down for the competetors (Concast, etc) like what is already done with the DirecTiVos.

Then use the whole package with the News Corp controlled companies blending the best of TiVo with the rest of NDS. ...and sue the pants off of anyone who copies TiVo's solid patents, especially a direct competitor like say...Dish. That case is pretty darn close already.

I still can't see the deal happening -- although anything can happen.

[Earl Bonovich]

The question then becomes: what do they do with it? Look at what has happened to all of the companies that Microsoft has bought out; 90% of it has been flushed down the digital waste disposal.


Not to turn this into a Micrsoft thread... but.. .I would have to argue that is much less then that.

Most of the companies Microsoft has aquired, their technology has been used.
Which may not see it by "name", but at least the last 6 or 7 that I can think of... The product the "purchased" company had, most certainly was made into a Microsoft product... or made part of a microsoft product.


I still think it is three fold.

1) DirecTV wants to protect themselves from any lawsuits
2) They want the TiVo Name
3) They want the Suggestion and Wishlist

#2 and #3 are somthing no other product has.

[joegrjoe]

Not to turn this into a Micrsoft thread... but.. .I would have to argue that is much less then that.

Most of the companies Microsoft has aquired, their technology has been used.
Which may not see it by "name", but at least the last 6 or 7 that I can think of... The product the "purchased" company had, most certainly was made into a Microsoft product... or made part of a microsoft product.


I still think it is three fold.

1) DirecTV wants to protect themselves from any lawsuits
2) They want the TiVo Name
3) They want the Suggestion and Wishlist

#2 and #3 are somthing no other product has.

How would they use the tivo name?

I know the name "wishlist" is copyrighted & name Suggestions" is copyrighted.

But how can they patent a program using ratings and say call it recommendations ?

Is there really only 1 software algorithim there to do suugestion type feature ?

And for Directv wanted Tivo why has he not bought them yet ?

I mean the whole company can not be worth of 1 oer 2 billion at most.

[harsh]

Not to turn this into a Micrsoft thread... but.. .I would have to argue that is much less then that.Were all entitled to our own perceptions. If Microsoft were getting it right, we would have seen the likes of Vista at least two years ago instead of next year. I also doubt that there would have needed to be a Linux movement.Most of the companies Microsoft has aquired, their technology has been used.I can name a few that have gone completely to waste.Which may not see it by "name", but at least the last 6 or 7 that I can think of... The product the "purchased" company had, most certainly was made into a Microsoft product... or made part of a microsoft product.There has been a lot of this, but the portion of the IP portfolios of the bought-out companies that has been put to good use is all too tiny. Much of it has indeed been purchased to squash the competition. It goes all the way back to Seattle Computing and possibly even earlier.I still think it is three fold.

1) DirecTV wants to protect themselves from any lawsuits
2) They want the TiVo Name
3) They want the Suggestion and Wishlist

#2 and #3 are somthing no other product has.

Outside of the DirecTV community, the TiVo name is known and identified with DVRs, but certainly not a clear leader in the number of units in use. I seem to recall reading that the number of TiVo users has leveled out or is possibly even declining. I'd be willing to wager that TiVo no longer even rules among DBS customers.

It took several years for the name BetaMax to die out.

[carl6]

It took several years for the name BetaMax to die out.

Oh? I still have an operational Beta VCR sitting here, and a shelf full of beta movies. Not dead yet.

Carl

[harsh]

Oh? I still have an operational Beta VCR sitting here, and a shelf full of beta movies. Not dead yet.And I have a couple of Pioneer LASER disc players and I think someone mentioned that they had an RCA video disc player. The point is that new material is not being released and in the case of BetaMax, tapes for recording new material are like hen's teeth.

The risk with TiVo going away is that the guide data goes away. Once that is gone, the unit is brain dead. It may still play back, but it would be impossible to "TiVo" with it.

[Herdfan]

Just a random thought:

Lets say E* loses big against TiVo. Instead of paying the judgement, E* buys TiVo and then owns the judgement. It also then has the patents to go after D* with. Think how many D* users would jump to E*. It for every 100K that jump is a 200K swing. Might not take much for E* to pass D* in subs. Not good for D*.

OTOH, if D* buys TiVo, then E* could end up paying D* a judgement if E* loses.

[Clint Lamor]

Just a random thought:

Lets say E* loses big against TiVo. Instead of paying the judgement, E* buys TiVo and then owns the judgement. It also then has the patents to go after D* with. Think how many D* users would jump to E*. It for every 100K that jump is a 200K swing. Might not take much for E* to pass D* in subs. Not good for D*.

OTOH, if D* buys TiVo, then E* could end up paying D* a judgement if E* loses.

If TiVo has this windfall of money, whos to say they would sell to either of thse companis. Whos to say Comcast wouldn't swoop in and take them?

[Wolffpack]

Any company could purchase Tivo. If they (E* or DTV) were to purchase Tivo and don't integrate the Tivo software/ideas into their own, what's it all worth? Nothing.

[joegrjoe]

Any company could purchase Tivo. If they (E* or DTV) were to purchase Tivo and don't integrate the Tivo software/ideas into their own, what's it all worth? Nothing.

having good wish lists, suggestions and good guide data like tivo's is worth alot

[morgantown]

having good wish lists, suggestions and good guide data like tivo's is worth alot

...and having those patents in the bag would be a big plus for any company. Not like I think the rumor has a snowball's chance in...

The TiVo patent lawsuit at the end of the month should get something moving though.

[BillyBob_jcv]

Yup - Purchasing patents isn't just about using them in your products - it's also about making sure your competitors CAN'T.

[DesignDawg]

Never going to happen. If DirecTV was so pleased with TiVo then they never would have got rid of them in the first place. Just another false rumor.

Apparently, you aren't familiar with the recent history of Disney and Pixar. A most unagreeable split after months of not being able to come to a good deal, and then, almost out of the blue, Disney bought Pixar. If you think about the smiliarities in these two cases, it's almost uncanny.
Pixar & TiVo=the small company under contract with the big company, bringing MUCH success and fame to the big company.
Talks going badly, new agreements not being made
Agreement to finish out current contract, and then part ways for good
Big company struggling to make the "same" product as the little company, without their help, with limited success
Little company remains the darling among fans

And then, if DirecTV buys TiVo, they end the same: Big company buys little company, much to the chagrin of little company's fans, and we wait and see which culture prevails: Disney/DirecTV or Pixar/TiVo.

Ricky

[cabanaboy1977]

If you think about the smiliarities in these two cases, it's almost uncanny.

Your right, it is uncanny.:eek2: I didn't even think about it untill you said it. Only time will tell.

[Herdfan]

You forgot one thing: Both D* and Disney's upper management are very egotistical. They think they know everything and that they can do anything the little company can.

There're wrong.:D

[Clint Lamor]

You forgot one thing: Both D* and Disney's upper management are very egotistical. They think they know everything and that they can do anything the little company can.

There're wrong.:D

Ya they may be wrong but just like Microsoft, if they can't bea em BUY em. :lol:

[cheer]

I'm not sure how pratical IPTV over satelittle ever would be. Current delivery is a one way delivery mechanism satelitte sends to user. most IP based protocols require some type of bidirectional communication. I guess you maybe able to do something one directional with Multicasting or UDP.
Satellite is a crappy platform for anything other than pure broadcast.

With IPTV platforms, you have to have bidirectional signalling. No two ways about it. And the latency inherent in sat-based IP communications is significant and not fixable (that dang speed of light getting in the way).

[cheer]

You forgot one thing: Both D* and Disney's upper management are very egotistical. They think they know everything and that they can do anything the little company can.

There're wrong.:D
The highest cost of doing business is ego. When Chairpersons/CEOs let their ego free, stupid decisions get made. Happens all the time, in pretty much any industry.

[Earl Bonovich]

You mean like the Tribune company holding onto the Cubs?

[cheer]

You mean like the Tribune company holding onto the Cubs?
Actually, that's probably a good idea. We can't be sure of course, but most estimates suggest the Cubs are profitable, which is more than one can say for many of the Trib's other businesses...

[TheRatPatrol]

Same here, unless/until the MPEG4 DVR from D* is good enough.
Speaking of that, when will we ever see the HD-DVR from D*? If they do buy Tivo, will this delay the release of it? They better hurry up and get something out soon, or many of us will jump ship to other services so we can record in HD.

[Blitz68]

Actually, that's probably a good idea. We can't be sure of course, but most estimates suggest the Cubs are profitable, which is more than one can say for many of the Trib's other businesses...

I would rather have success then be profitable...because success comes profit.

[majortom]

Apparently, you aren't familiar with the recent history of Disney and Pixar.

Nor apparently are you.

A most unagreeable split after months of not being able to come to a good deal, and then, almost out of the blue, Disney bought Pixar. If you think about the smiliarities in these two cases, it's almost uncanny.

Steve Jobs stated that he would never do a deal with Disney as long as Michael Eisner was involved. Michael Eisner left and after Steve consummated a completely different deal with Bob Iger, decided that he wanted to be the single biggest Disney shareholder (and have his allies control almost 15% of Disney/Pixar).

Pixar & TiVo=the small company under contract with the big company, bringing MUCH success and fame to the big company.

Michael Eisner had to leave in order for Disney to acknowledge that they had problems. Rupert is much closer to Steve in this case, in that he is so strongly in control that he is unlikely to be moved.

Talks going badly, new agreements not being made
Agreement to finish out current contract, and then part ways for good
Big company struggling to make the "same" product as the little company, without their help, with limited success
Little company remains the darling among fans

Again, unlike Pixar, which had not signed a new distribution deal, TiVo has already completed a deal that is much better for them then their DirecTv deal. Comcast provides them a broadband connected box, something that DirecTv does not.

And then, if DirecTV buys TiVo, they end the same: Big company buys little company, much to the chagrin of little company's fans, and we wait and see which culture prevails: Disney/DirecTV or Pixar/TiVo.

Ricky

There is one similarity between these two deals, just like Pixar, TiVo can only be purchased if it wants to be. TiVo has a poison pill that would prevent DirecTv (or anyone else) from purchasing them unless TiVo agrees to be purchased. For TiVo to feel that DirecTv would be a better partner they would have to think that their deal with Comcast will fail, and will not lead to deals with other cable companies. Cable (and Comcast in particular) is the 800 pound gorilla here, not DirecTv.

/carmi

[majortom]

You forgot one thing: Both D* and Disney's upper management are very egotistical. They think they know everything and that they can do anything the little company can.

Actually, that was true before Robert Iger took over and that was why Steve Jobs had said he would never sign a deal with Michael Eisner. In Bob Iger, Steve found a partner that was looking for help and looking to change. DirecTv's management has been stubborn and is showing no signs of changing.

/carmi

[majortom]

Look to the past, DTV didn't enable MRV and HMO on the DTivos that were sold even though those capabilities existed in the Tivo code. They could do the same with a deal such as this. DTV Tivos contain all features and Comcast Tivos contain a subset of those features.

Actually, it was DirecTv that choose not to enable those features and Comcast that has clearly said that they want them (and has them in its contract with TiVo). So what one would probably see in this (impossible fantasy) deal is that DirecTv TiVo receivers would still be crippled and Comcast and other cable DVRs with TiVo service would have more features.

:)

/carmi

[Wolffpack]

Actually, it was DirecTv that choose not to enable those features and Comcast that has clearly said that they want them (and has them in its contract with TiVo). So what one would probably see in this (impossible fantasy) deal is that DirecTv TiVo receivers would still be crippled and Comcast and other cable DVRs with TiVo service would have more features.

:)

/carmi
Very nice selective quote. My original statement was in regards to the fact that if DTV did purchase Tivo how would the current Comcast agreement work or could it. My statement was:

Plus, as far as a contract such as the Comcast contract, DTV could honor that deal, providing a Tivo based DVR to Comcast and whoever else would pay the price. But it wouldn't necessarily require that all features available to DTV Tivo users would be available to Comcast Tivo users. Look to the past, DTV didn't enable MRV and HMO on the DTivos that were sold even though those capabilities existed in the Tivo code. They could do the same with a deal such as this. DTV Tivos contain all features and Comcast Tivos contain a subset of those features.
And my point being DTV could still offer Comcast the Tivo technology but cripple Comcast's (or other Cable COs) version just as DTV crippled their own Tivo units.

This was almost like a newspaper reporter grabbing a slice of a quote.

[majortom]

And my point being DTV could still offer Comcast the Tivo technology but cripple Comcast's (or other Cable COs) version just as DTV crippled their own Tivo units.

This was intended as humor (notice the little smiley face) not really a response to your argument. :)

The serious bit was that Comcast has it in their contract for these networking features and would not be interested in TiVo service without it.

/carmi

[Earl Bonovich]

The serious bit was that Comcast has it in their contract for these networking features and would not be interested in TiVo service without it.


Do you have access to the Contract?
As it would be intresting to read...

Or is that based of the comments made by others?

[majortom]

Do you have access to the Contract?
As it would be intresting to read...

Or is that based of the comments made by others?

Comcast said it publicly at their analysts meeting at CES, as did TiVo at their joint meeting.

/carmi

[Fygg]

from comcast's press release, 3/05:

"... , the service will showcase TiVo's home networking, multimedia, and broadband capabilities."

http://www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=147565&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=685606&highlight=