The official August 12, 2002 Tech Chat discussion

[Darkman]

Lets get some questions, ideas, thoughts, concerns ready Now for the upcoming Tech Chat :)

The tech chat is:

Monday August 12, 2002
9PM EST Channel 101

[Geronimo]

Will the non Open TV receivers be upgraded for local channel mapping in the 2-69 range. Right now we are basically guessing about whether it will or won't happen. I interpreted the January reamrk to say that they will. Othere seem to have interpreted subsequent events and/or some announcement I am unaware of to say that they won't. And different people seem to read the DP comment from the July chat differently.


A simple declarative statement from DISH will clear it all up.

[Darkman]

maybe i am wrong - but thought i heard on charlie's chat them mentioned all the receivers might get upgraded and they had to check it with engeneers about that, (not just Dishplayer) - but i could be wrong...

in any case - good question for Tech Chat..
so - Tech Chat people - if any are reading it...- Answer Geronimo's question please!
Here or on Chat - doesn't matter :)

[Darkman]

any1 knows for a fact - that Dishnet's people or Dishnet's Tech people come here and read the threads?

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by Darkman
any1 knows for a fact - that Dishnet's people or Dishnet's Tech people come here and read the threads? Trust me, they do.

[Darkman]

hehe - k ...
i ll trust you :)
hope they do anyhow :)

[Scott Greczkowski]

Let me second Chris's comments, It is not uncommon to see a group of Echostar people here most of the day.

And in saying that let me say that they DO listen to the comments you guys are making.

With that being said, let me say that we are very happy to Have Echostar here (as well as DirecTV, ExpressVu and XM Radio which are all companies who visit us often) but we must state that were are in no way associated, owned by, paid off by etc. with any of the companies. DBStalk is privately owned and operated and is supported by the genorisity our kind members.

There just had to say that. :D

[Neil Derryberry]

I wonder if the new dishpro switches are compatible with the 22khz standard switches... If so, that will greatly reduce e*'s conversion cost, as they wouldn't have to replace existing d* multiswitches. Or am I dreaming too much?

[Nick]

July 11 <--> Aug 12

Isn't this thread a little early???

[Scott Greczkowski]

Nah it's not early, hell I went out to shopping last weekend and many stores in the area had HALLOWEEN stuff out already! :eek:

[Nick]

eek! :eek: I hate it when that happens.

You make my point, Scott, because both are too early, but who cares??? :confused:

[Mark Holtz]

First of all, I love my 501. Let the DirecTIVO fans say what they will, the 501 suits my needs just fine.

There is one problem that is inherent to all PVRs, whether or not it's the 501, 721, DirecTIVO, or UltimateTV.....

No matter how much hard drive you put into a PVR, it is never enough. Will there be a way to upgrade the 501s to larger hard drives, especially with the prices extremely low (see www.pricewatch.com)?

Also, will there be a way for Search to find other showings of a show from the program guide?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Zloth it would be cool if the # option worked from the guide (this way you can find other showings of the show)

I never tried to see if it will work, I will try it tonight, good idea!

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by Z'Loth
No matter how much hard drive you put into a PVR, it is never enough. Will there be a way to upgrade the 501s to larger hard drives, especially with the prices extremely low You know Z'Loth, you bring up something that has bugged since the 501 came out. The lack of freedom to upgrade. As you, I really enjoy using the 501 and think it works well. If I want more hard drive space, I should be given the freedom to put in a bigger hard drive if I wish. Yes I know that it voids the warranty, but that should be my choice and not theirs.

Also, what if the hard drive fails? I would feel comfortable with the fact that I can run down to the local store and pick one up, slap it in and be up and running in minutes. With the hard drive being "married" the receiver, it takes away even that option. Dish really dropped the ball on this one. I know they have their reasons why they did things this way, but it still blows.

[LarryH]

721 questions:

1) When will the 721 keyboard be available? Price?
2) When will the 721 Internet options be turned on?
3) What will the USB->Ethernet adapter cost?

[kennet6565]

Chris, I so agree with you about upgrading the hard drive on the 501. I have put in larger HD's in my two TiVo's but have never been successful upgrading my 501's.

[Steve Mehs]

The question I ask everytime, when will Thomson start making E* hardware, and will it be more then in 301 or whatever with a RCA logo on it instead of Echostars?

[DRJDAN]

Who makes the 301, 501 and 721 for E*?

[Steve Mehs]

ETC

[Randy_B]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
I should be given the freedom to put in a bigger hard drive if I wish. Yes I know that it voids the warranty, but that should be my choice and not theirs.

None are as easy to upgrade as the DP:goodjob: . Now that the DP seems to be stable :fingers crossed mode: this is a great reason to love it, of course ease of upgrade was an OVERSIGHT by E*, not a feature. I still remember Dugan's look of surprise during an early tech chat when they discovered this. :eek: (I also heard they furiously tried to figure out how to stop it, but couldn't).

[Bob Haller]

I wonder how long it will be before DPs get a software change and are junk again?

[Jacob S]

I figure they are afraid to send a software download to the dishplayer again. I remember them going back to a previous software release because of all of the bugs a new one brought out.

[AkShark]

Hi all, I am new to Dish Network (2 Months) and live in Alaska.
I use Sat 119 on a 4 ft dish, 6000 receiver and 73 inch RPTV.

I am getting alot of pixalating (5-6 times (or more) lasting 3-5 seconds over a 2 hour time period) I have call tech support several times getting the check this, check that routine. (Signal strength is 78-82, solid, no signal loss.)

I have even called my installer 3 times, but he won't return my calls now that he has cashed the check.

I called into Charlie Chat the other night and to my surprise got through to ask about this, but was quickly transfered to yet another tech dude with the same questions and fixes(??)

Curiously, I do not have this problem on Sat 148 (24 inch dish) when watching the HD stuff. (same signal strength) I also never see pixalating on my 301 receiver (20 inch CRT, Sat 119)

I get the feeling that this is a compression issue based upon the other posts in this forum, but why does it only happen on the large TV with the 6000 receiver? (see below)

One of the tech dudes at Dish suggested they see more pixalating the larger the TV gets?? ( Does this make any sense?)


If this is the case and is un-fixable until Echostar 8, 9, 10......ect launches I think I may have to return to Cable ( Horror of Horrors) . This issue is very annoying when watching movies as I loose both audio and video missing key scene's and dialog.

Thanks for any input you may have on this.:shrug:

[DarrellP]

OK, Dish here's a challenge for you:

The 6000 will probably never get local channel mappings. If you have the 8vsb mod installed and your local digitals map to the VHF channels it won't work. For instance, I have ch 2 for ABC, 6 for CBS, 8 for NBC, 10 for PBS and 12 for UPN. If I punch in 006 to tune in channel 6 I get the local digital 006-01. I tried this being tuned into the Analog channel 6 and the digital channel 6-01 and both times it tuned to 006-01.

So unless they change the software on the 6000 to map the sat channels to 006 and force us to put in all 5 digits for the digital channels, it will never work.

On the 501:

I'm on my 3rd receiver, having to swap the first 1 due to just plain not working very well, the 2nd one for a noisey hard drive and this 3rd one has a noisey hard drive as well. Why can't you bench test the drives that go into these things and weed out the defective ones before they go out the door?

There are 2 types of noises mine have made: 1) Rattling like a set of marbles are loose inside when it seeks. 2) Extreme high frequency whine like a dental drill (constant & loud enough to hear over normal TV volume). My current unit works very well and I am quite hesitant to return it in fear of getting a piece of junk or another noisey one. Please test these things.

Regarding the operation of the 501. It is much more stable now, thanks. I do have these issues:
1) Quite often I will try to select a program from the EPG and instead of getting the record settings screen, I am kicked back to Live.
2) When paused and resume playing, it jumps ahead about 5 seconds. If the drive is almost full, I get choppy playback. Stopping and restarting usually fixes it.
3) Please fix the timer list so it can be sorted by ANYTHING! As it is, it is a jumble of (*&^)%#@. And PLEASE make it so we can press Info on a timer and see what the heck it is.
4) There are still back to back timer problems. I had an issue where I had rewound the live buffer, pressed the browse button and hit record but it did not stop when it was supposed to. I stopped the recording, went into the PVR list and it said it was recording the next show but was not. When I highlighted the item on the PVR screen and hit Select, it tuned to that channel and the red record light came on.
5) Please make the History list on Search so we can sort the list and delete 1 item at a time.

[Jacob S]

1) Quite often I will try to select a program from the EPG and instead of getting the record settings screen, I am kicked back to Live.

^^^That one really agitates me as well as the info for a timer not showing the info for the show. Not being able to delete just one item from search history but having to delete them all at once is a big goof.

Sounds like some things that people had requested before that is listed on my website of features most wanted.

[psecic]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Nah it's not early, hell I went out to shopping last weekend and many stores in the area had HALLOWEEN stuff out already! :eek:

Halloween candy?? The kids might get sick. I guess the economy is realy hurting some people.

[Huzefa]

I have a little nitpicking of my own to do. Why is it not possible to click on a event timer right in the EPG and be able to cancel it? I hate going into the Menu, then into the timer menu and then cancelling it. I should just be able to click on the show and the option to cancel or edit should pop right up.

Huzefa G.

[Buffalo]

Umm, when are you going to offer all the great channels digital cable offers, and when will the picture be as great as digital cable????

[Darkman]

Originally posted by Buffalo
Umm, when are you going to offer all the great channels digital cable offers, and when will the picture be as great as digital cable????

hehe....
Here we go again - i guess...

Freedom of speech i suppose....

like in a supermarket - all i can say: Do not like it, do not buy it..

[Scott Greczkowski]

Buffalo,

The question should be, when is Digital Cable going to offer Dolby Digital Audio, and HDTV? :D

[Jacob S]

When is digital cable going to be in the country, or any cable at all? When is high speed internet going to be available in the country? Sounds more like of what we would be asking the cable company instead of asking what is going to be on the charlie chat.

[Marcus S]

All Sub for the 5000, Open TV for the 6000, Fix Distintive Ringing Caller ID on the 501, move the Travel Channel into the 190+, and move the HD channels to the 7000 range to remove it from BTV and community access cluter. It never hurts to keep asking, maybe someone from E* is watching.

[Darkman]

Open TV for the 6000 - it will not happen!
Charlie said so - i think on last chat ( Maybe it was on Retailer Chat - can't recall now )
He said - "not enough 6000 around to try to do the hard Mod..
not worth their time..
however, he said - that future HD receiver models More Likely will have Open TV, among other new fancy features..
:)

[Marcus S]

If I had a $1 every time Charlie opened his mouth about something I would be retired.

[Darkman]

hehe - i hear you...
But in the 6000 case going Open TV - i think he ment what he said :)

[Steve Mehs]

move the Travel Channel into the 190+

I second the motion! 187 or 190 would be a good ch#, never got why they put it in with the news channels. And yeah, hide the BTVs they clutter up the guide, for residential subs, and turn on ch 9480 for all subs.

[Marcus S]

When E* added the Travel channel it was not owned by Discovery. It's content back then was a giant advertisement for travel and complimented the weather channel as informational, obviously not the station it is today.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Buffalo,

The question should be, when is Digital Cable going to offer Dolby Digital Audio, and HDTV? :D

Humm... You can get both DD and HD here in NYC and many of NY/NJ's Time Warner cable systems. As a matter of fact, Time Warner NYC has more Dolby Digital audio channels than either Dish network or DirecTV.

[Marcus S]

Has anyone heard Colorado Springs locals coming up in Sept?

[psecic]

Silly me, I thought Tech Forum was last niight. I watched silly channel 101 for 15 minutes.

[Darkman]

lucky you :)

[DarrellP]

I do not want open TV on my 6000, I want a faster guide. Dish sped up the guide once and now it is getting slow again. Many times after sitting on HBOHD or HD Discovery, I will hit the EPG and get many Info Not Available listings. This is not acceptable.

On 501 Themes, PLEASE MAKE THE LISTING BE FOR THE CURRENTLY SELECTED FAVORITES LIST! DO NOT include programs that I am not subbed to, it does me no good to see them and only wastes the limited 500 programs that the Themes will return. On the movie searches, I can barely get 1 day of searching before reaching the limit.

For the 501, how about a Power Off while recording option to power down after finishing the current recording or a Sleep timer?

And move the 501 icon that is currently on the middle right edge of the screen to the bottom right corner and make it transparent as well as the progress bar. Better yet, give us the time.

[Jacob S]

That is one of those features on my site that I so wish that they would do, with having only the subbed channels in the themes, why view shows that you cant watch? Is it their way of advertising or something?

[brmann]

DarrellIIP wrote:
I say "Amen!"
I agree with everything he said.

On the 501:

I'm on my 3rd receiver, having to swap the first 1 due to just plain not working very well, the 2nd one for a noisey hard drive and this 3rd one has a noisey hard drive as well. Why can't you bench test the drives that go into these things and weed out the defective ones before they go out the door?

There are 2 types of noises mine have made: 1) Rattling like a set of marbles are loose inside when it seeks. 2) Extreme high frequency whine like a dental drill (constant & loud enough to hear over normal TV volume). My current unit works very well and I am quite hesitant to return it in fear of getting a piece of junk or another noisey one. Please test these things.

Regarding the operation of the 501. It is much more stable now, thanks. I do have these issues:
1) Quite often I will try to select a program from the EPG and instead of getting the record settings screen, I am kicked back to Live.
2) When paused and resume playing, it jumps ahead about 5 seconds. If the drive is almost full, I get choppy playback. Stopping and restarting usually fixes it.
3) Please fix the timer list so it can be sorted by ANYTHING! As it is, it is a jumble of (*&^)%#@. And PLEASE make it so we can press Info on a timer and see what the heck it is.
4) There are still back to back timer problems. I had an issue where I had rewound the live buffer, pressed the browse button and hit record but it did not stop when it was supposed to. I stopped the recording, went into the PVR list and it said it was recording the next show but was not. When I highlighted the item on the PVR screen and hit Select, it tuned to that channel and the red record light came on.
5) Please make the History list on Search so we can sort the list and delete 1 item at a time.

Burt

[Mark Holtz]

brmann: What version of the 501 firmware are you running? There are two out there: P154 and P165.

On your "kick back to live", is this a future event or a present event? If it's a future event, try this: Hold down the power button until both the power and recroding light light up, then release. This "reboots" the 501, and take less than five minutes. This is partially because the 501 may reload guide data. Afterwards, run a check switch. Then, see what happens.

As for the timer menus..... I don't think there is a 501 owner who disagrees with you.

[Jacob S]

I have had 4 bad 501 receivers getting the 5th one shipped to me, what a pain in the but!!! 2 of them lose signal in and out and 2 of them end up with a bad hard drive.

[James_F]

What a hassle! :bang

[Darkman]

Sounds like lots of Lemons there among Oranges ;(

[DarrellP]

Z'Loth, resetting the 501 doesn't seem to make any difference on the kick back to live. I've had it happen right after a reset and I've gone weeks without it happening at all.

Also, the time into the guide doesn't seem to matter if it is current, 1 hour ahead, 1 day ahead or 1 week ahead, it just seems to throw up and throw me back to live instead of going to the record options screen. Going back into the EPG to the same show and reselecting it works. I've never been booted out twice in a row. (at least not with 154).

[Marcus S]

It would be interesting to know if some moron in E* RMA dept recycled defective 501's returned that had Seagate drives. E* has since switched to Maxtor drives. The problem with the Seagate drives is that sometime they would spin up and sometimes not, meaning they might pass Q/A on one go round and back out to the unsuspecting customer. Reminds me of the old CMI drives IBM shipped in AT's long long ago. CMI went belly up.

[James_F]

Do the Seagate drives run hotter than the Maxtors? I'd assume since they are running all the time, they would get hot... Maybe its a heat issue????

[Marcus S]

The 1st gen of 501's where noisy when they did run, but I never noticed they where running hot, just not running at all. You could tap the HD and it would spin up, but that is not a solution.

[James_F]

I've noticed that most newer HDs run much hotter than older ones. On the 501s that might not be the issue, but we'll have to see what happens with the 721s and 508s...

[Jacob S]

The new receiver Dish sent to me as a replace for my 501 with another 501 just a few months ago has a Seagate hard drive in it. Since when did they change everything to maxtor? What is up with the 501's having the signal go in and out and having that issue as well? Are the newer ones having these issues with problems fixed with them?

Also what kind of hard drive are in the 721's ?

[James_F]

I'm sure the use more than one manufacturer to make sure that they will always have drives available.

[Marcus S]

Remember, Charlie is Jack Benny reincarnated. Thus bulk purchase of anything from one manuf to gain maximum discount and profit. He keeps forgeting how much it has cost him to fix all the screw ups. Maybe he uses Enron accounting to make repairs look like a long term investment. :blush:

[James_F]

:lol: Lets hope not....

[chuckster25]

When will Dish replace the HD6000 with an HD receiver using 8PSK with an option for OTAHD? I am really tired of only getting to look out two hours in my program guide on the HD6000.

[Jacob S]

Must be in the wrong forum. We meant HD as in Hard Drive, not High Definition.

[Darkman]

hehe - all the talk..but:

Do not forget - the Tech chat is tonite :)

[Marcus S]

Still to definitive reply on if the 6000 will ever get the OpenTV upgrade.

[Mark Holtz]

Pretty good chat! Nice to see everyone in chat!

[Scott Greczkowski]

No the 6000 will NOT EVER get the OpenTV Upgrade. I got that answer from the top of the food chain at Echostar.

Thanks to Mark Jackson for mentioning DBSTalk on the air!

Great chat everyone!

[Darkman]

I also indicated that 6000 will not EVER get openTV upgrade..
they said so on one of the chats...


By the way - did you all hear: - They mentioned DBSTalk on Tech chat tonite ( they mentioned us therefore :) )

I guess they do read our threads - lol

[Jacob S]

When is the repeat of this tech chat and where are all the details of this tech chat? Maybe Scott needs to have a video on here of it so that those that missed it can view it, or his own video of the tech chat recap, like he does his new show, or put that on the next news show that he has.

[markh]

Any big news or interesting stuff? I missed it.

[Chris Blount]

The tech chat recap can be found here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6766

[Brian Rector]

When I had Dish, I always found that I got more out of the tech Chats than the Charlie Chats. Maybe its because I loved to hear about the different features of the receivers, etc.

Im even planning to get back in the game and get Dish again. I will admit this: the only thing I really miss in my exit from Dish are the Tech Chats. The Charlie Chats are nothing new, since you do see most, if not all, of the info on here and in the DBSForums.

[Jacob S]

I also found the tech chats more informative, and I think its because they knew more of what they were talking about, and those only would come on every 3 months. Charlie Chats just are not what they used to be. I remember a good while back when the Charlie Chats had so much to look forward to. I guess people get spoiled after a while. I think the merger would create a new 'excitement' as there would be so many new things going on.

[Geronimo]

I heard the statement that Open TV receivers not getting the channel ampping update are getting it but missed any specific reference to any non Open TV receivers. I am not holding my breath and the 6000 would have unique problems but I really dont recall the reference.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Jacob S
I think the merger would create a new 'excitement' as there would be so many new things going on.

I think widespread 'panic' would be a more appropriate term :)

[Jacob S]

Maybe thats the other term for excitement I been looking for.