stacker question

[spaulin]

Hi,

I read somewhere in this forum that the R-15 have a internal destacker. So here is my question, if I install this US575 DBS LNB stacker, I could run both signal into one cable, take that cable to my R-15. Connect only that cable in, select the option that the signal is stack, and the receiver will destack the signal to have the full dual tuner availability.

Is this correct or not? :confused:

One of my friend have one and want to sell it to me for 40$, that seams to be a good price, but I just want to make sure that it will actually work.


Thanks for your help,

Great forum. :allthumbs

[Earl Bonovich]

Yes... partial.

You will need to use a standard 2+ghz splitter at the R15.... then send one feed to each of the inputs.

Then turn on the destacker... and you are good to go.

$40 is a great price for a stacker

[gvaughn]

Yes... partial.

You will need to use a standard 2+ghz splitter at the R15.... then send one feed to each of the inputs.

Then turn on the destacker... and you are good to go.

$40 is a great price for a stacker

Earl...can you refresh my memory about how you tell the R15 it's a stacked signal? I see a lot of threads discussing the need for stacking/de-stacking...which satellites and which equipment to use...but I can't find the info regarding R15 settings and I don't see where in the R15 menus you tell it it's a stacked signal. I just moved and can't get my 2nd tuner to work using my old destacker...so I thought I'd try the R15s internal de-stacker.

Thanks.

Greg

[leesweet]

I could use that info, also, as two of mine will be where there's only one physical cable possible. I don't see any options on the menu, either, since it never asks you if it has 0, 1, or 2 feeds, stacked or not. Perhaps that's part of the 'testing' where it looks to see if 1 or 2 of the feeds are connected and it's automatic?

[carl6]

Push Right Arrow and Active on the front of the unit at the same time. You will get a menu that has LNB Setup in it someplace. Use the LNB setup menu to get to the stacked option.

Carl

[leesweet]

Boy, there's an undoc'd feature! :) Probably in the installer's training (how do they get the stuff that the average user doesn't get?!).

[gvaughn]

Push Right Arrow and Active on the front of the unit at the same time. You will get a menu that has LNB Setup in it someplace. Use the LNB setup menu to get to the stacked option.

Carl

Thanks Carl!!

This would be a good thing to add to the FAQ section regarding the R15 destacker abilities. Can one of the mods add this? I'm sure there are others looking for this info too!

[leesweet]

Also of interest would be exactly what we need to purchase for a single-cable run to serve as two inputs. A stacker for the multiswitch end, and the splitter (as described above) for the R15 end?

[carl6]

Cabanaboy and I are currently working on the FAQ. In the next week or two we'll have a whole new one with a lot more information (and including everything that is in the current one). I'll make sure to add this info to it.

As far as stackers go, do an online search but make sure whatever you find is designed to work with DirecTV. I think you can get a stacker for something in the range of $100 to $150. Then you will also need a splitter at the R15 end, as you noted.

Keep in mind that stacking (what you can afford to buy anyway) only works with single satellite dishes. You can't properly stack multi-satellite (3-LNB or 5-LNB dishes).

Good luck.

By the way, I don't think I have seen anyone post where they are successfully using stacking with the R15. If there is anyone that is doing that, and it is working for you, let us know, and if you don't mind, share the info on the stacker you are using.

Carl

[gvaughn]

Cabanaboy and I are currently working on the FAQ. In the next week or two we'll have a whole new one with a lot more information (and including everything that is in the current one). I'll make sure to add this info to it.

As far as stackers go, do an online search but make sure whatever you find is designed to work with DirecTV. I think you can get a stacker for something in the range of $100 to $150. Then you will also need a splitter at the R15 end, as you noted.

Keep in mind that stacking (what you can afford to buy anyway) only works with single satellite dishes. You can't properly stack multi-satellite (3-LNB or 5-LNB dishes).

Good luck.

By the way, I don't think I have seen anyone post where they are successfully using stacking with the R15. If there is anyone that is doing that, and it is working for you, let us know, and if you don't mind, share the info on the stacker you are using.

Carl

I can confirm that I am now successfully using stacking/destacking with the R15 (with the R15 doing the actual destacking itself - thanks to input from this forum on the menu setup in the R15). I am using stackers from the 9th tee...though I'm not sure of the manufacturer and/or if it's the same as being sold on their site currently. http://www.9thtee.com/dssstuff.htm

[cabanaboy1977]

I can confirm that I am now successfully using stacking/destacking with the R15 (with the R15 doing the actual destacking itself - thanks to input from this forum on the menu setup in the R15). I am using stackers from the 9th tee...though I'm not sure of the manufacturer and/or if it's the same as being sold on their site currently. http://www.9thtee.com/dssstuff.htm

What type of dish do you have Gvaughn?

[gvaughn]

What type of dish do you have Gvaughn?

round 2 LNB - single satellite. I'm only getting standard def...for the moment, and my locals are on the same satellite as the main channels.

[cabanaboy1977]

round 2 LNB - single satellite. I'm only getting standard def...for the moment, and my locals are on the same satellite as the main channels.

Thanks, I just wanted to check. I thought you'd have a single or dual LNB. From every thing that's been posted (from people who know alot more about stacking than I do) I don't think it's possible to stack the 3 or 5 lnb's without an very, very, very pricey stacker.

If any one has a 3 or 5 LNB dish and is using a stacked singal to the R15, please let us know how it's setup and what stacker your are using? Thanks.

[gvaughn]

Thanks, I just wanted to check. I thought you'd have a single or dual LNB. From every thing that's been posted (from people who know alot more about stacking than I do) I don't think it's possible to stack the 3 or 5 lnb's without an very, very, very pricey stacker.

If any one has a 3 or 5 LNB dish and is using a stacked singal to the R15, please let us know how it's setup and what stacker your are using? Thanks.

yeah...I'd like to know too...since I'd like to eventually upgrade to HD. But until they come out with the MPEG4 HD DVR, I'll stick to SD.

[Halo]

I don't know how a stacker solution would work with the 5LNB.
If I remember correctly, the single dish dual LNB has just a total of 1000Mhz, the 3 sat dish has 2000Mhz. The 5 sat dish (when everything is turned on) will be able to receive 6000Mhz.
RG-6 cable is okay for the first 2 stacking setups, but 6Ghz? no way. It would only work if the cable was very short. I don't see how they will be able to do it.

[sattec]

If any one has a 3 or 5 LNB dish and is using a stacked singal to the R15, please let us know how it's setup and what stacker your are using? Thanks.
nasproducts.com

[cabanaboy1977]

nasproducts.com

I'm confuzed. Which product on there lets you stack a 3 or 5 LNB? Aren't those all super large Multiswitches?

[carl6]

Looking at the nasproducts website, it appears that what they have are commercial grade stackers and de-stackers, which may in fact support multisatellite (Phase III dish for example) applications.

However, I did not see any pricing, and given that these are targeted to the commercial market (for support of apartment buildings, or similar large applications), I'm going to guess they don't come cheap ($1K or higher???).

Also, I would further guess that these might not be directly compatible with the built in destackers that are in the R15. Don't know, but given that they do a rather special form of very wide band stacking (in order to support multisatellite access) there is at least a possibility that the internal destacker won't handle the signal properly.

Also, I am certain they will not work with the 5-LNB dish because of the bandwidth that dish requires for it's own form of stacking (mixing the signals from 5 satellites into 4 outputs using an internal multiswitch).

This brings us back to the only knowing of one product that works with a single round dish that is cost effective and proven to work with the R15.

Carl

[sattec]

don't be confused, I have a condo building on trisat stacked with NAS hardware. They now have a 5 sat solution, study the web site I gave you, thats stacked hardware!! your looking at. you'll need a downconvertor behind the rx to unstack the signal. $400 for the main stacker "head", dc 's are 50-60 bucks

[cabanaboy1977]

don't be confused, I have a condo building on trisat stacked with NAS hardware. They now have a 5 sat solution, study the web site I gave you, thats stacked hardware!! your looking at. you'll need a downconvertor behind the rx to unstack the signal. $400 for the main stacker "head", dc 's are 50-60 bucks

Does anyone in your condo have the R15 using both tuners and working? If so are they able to use the R15 internal destacker or do they have to use their destacker? $400, WOW I don't think the average joe will want to shell out that (althought someone probably will). Sattec, I'm just asking so Carl and I can have our facts straight for the FAQ. And thanks for the info.

[sattec]

Does anyone in your condo have the R15 using both tuners and working? If so are they able to use the R15 internal destacker or do they have to use their destacker? $400, WOW I don't think the average joe will want to shell out that (althought someone probably will). Sattec, I'm just asking so Carl and I can have our facts straight for the FAQ. And thanks for the info.
all the birds are stacked on one wire, for two tuners, just use a special 2way splitter, go to 2 downconvertors, one for each tuner. Set the rx for "5 sat dish mode"....they say the new rx's will have MDU "hidden" menu / software to eliminate the dc soon....the mdu guys have known about the hidden stacked menu for yrs in d-10 / d-11. Ever heard of "inverted stacked" mode? that would allow a d-10 to work with a NAS stacker without a dc but it only 'caught' 101, not all three birds. The rx thinks its hooked to a regular dish! the dc between the rx and the stacker head is what does the trick, the dc's used to be $125 but now are half that cost. look for hidden software coming to run in stacked multisat mode. Oh yeah, 0-860 mhz is clear on a NAS trunkline for the distribution of loacl antenna signals or internet. Its quite a product, many different options. we have a highrise condo on NAS, 36 units.

[gvaughn]

FYI...for those more visual...here is a setup diagram from the above website that shows multiple satellites all being stacked onto a single line, etc...

http://216.254.116.117/nas/adm/pdf_files/MFH-1%20General%20Configuration.pdf

Thanks sattec for the website!

[gvaughn]

$400, WOW I don't think the average joe will want to shell out that (althought someone probably will).

But the average joe was shelling out $600 to $1000 for the older Tivo HD-DVRs (not that I would have done that)...so this cost doesn't seem too exhorbitent given the other hardware prices people have been paying.

[sattec]

it does work, thats for sure. There's gonna be big mdu push coming. hey ! thank you, I get all my feedback on what the DTV rx's are doing by reading you guys, I get alot of bs from customers and no help from DYTV so I get alot of my info from you guys. good info!!!!

ps, for a big house, this is a viable solution, you can run alot of rx's off of it.

[cabanaboy1977]

they say the new rx's will have MDU "hidden" menu / software to eliminate the dc soon....... look for hidden software coming to run in stacked multisat mode.

The hidden stacker menu is already there on the R15. Are you saying that they are going to update the hidden stacker menu so it will work with the 3 and 5 LNB's?

[Halo]

The nasproducts SCU-4P5MATB can stack 5 sats inputs (each @ 500MHZ each) + an OTA input (54 - 806 MHz). It can't do the 5LNB AT-9 dish.

So, it would expect as inputs:
input 1: 500MHZ from the 101 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ
input 2: 500MHZ from the 101 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ
input 3: 500MHZ from the 119 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ
input 4: 500MHZ from the 110/119 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ

This is what the phase 3 dish does. Total of 2Ghz.

Then it allows a 5th input from the 72.5 sat:
input 5: 500MHZ from the 72.5 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ

+ it allows an OTA input (it doesn't stack over it like the AT-9 dish does)
input 6: OTA frequency 54 - 806 MHz

So, the total output frequency when everything is combined is 2 - 3500 MHz on one wire.


Now, if you look at what a stacking solution for the 5LNB AT-9 dish would be a lot more difficult. Just to stack the 5 Sats at 99,101,103,110,and 119 would require TWELVE 500Mhz inputs, for a total of 6Ghz.

input 01: 500MHZ from the 101 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ (RHCP)
input 02: 500MHZ from the 101 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ (LHCP)
input 03: 500MHZ from the 119 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ (RHCP)
input 04: 500MHZ from the 110/119 deg sat. @950-1450MHZ (LHCP)

input 05: 500MHZ from the 99 deg sat. @250-750MHZ (RHCP)
input 06: 500MHZ from the 99 deg sat. @250-750MHZ (LHCP)
input 07: 500MHZ from the 99 deg sat. @1650-2150MHZ (RHCP)
input 08: 500MHZ from the 99 deg sat. @1650-2150MHZ (LHCP)
input 09: 500MHZ from the 103 deg sat. @250-750MHZ (RHCP)
input 10: 500MHZ from the 103 deg sat. @250-750MHZ (LHCP)
input 11: 500MHZ from the 103 deg sat. @1650-2150MHZ (RHCP)
input 12: 500MHZ from the 103 deg sat. @1650-2150MHZ (LHCP)

You can see that the new KA sats at 99 and 103 EACH send down 2Ghz of data (once the next two sats Directv10 and Directv11 are launched).
I don't see a stacking solution for that much data over old RG-6 cable.

[sattec]

The hidden stacker menu is already there on the R15. Are you saying that they are going to update the hidden stacker menu so it will work with the 3 and 5 LNB's?
only a rumour...but yes sorta, you will be able to access the mdu built-in software for single wire multisat stacked for use in your home...single wire multisat service will be big in the DTV mdu world soon, if your r-15 software will be updated, don't know. the same rx in the home will be used in mdu, all models will work in the mdu environment as they do in the homes.

[leesweet]

Catching up on this thread.... let's see if I have this clear. I have the 'old' 3LNB dish with 4 outputs from the integrated MS. (That goes into a 5x8 Terk MS, but that's not imporant...) I also have HD Tivos and the HD package. But, for the R15 runs (SD, of course) with two tuners where I have one cable, I *can* use any stacker? Or do I need one made for 3 LNB dishes because all of those signals are on the cable in any case?

I'd forgotton the limitations on the stackers (1/2 vs 3 vs 5 LNBs), so all of this will be a great addition to the FAQ! These items are a bit pricy, but if you have only one wire run, want both tuners to work, and there's no way cheaply to get another one, $300+ may be worth it.

[leesweet]

Gonna bump this once... did I miss the answer to my question in there somewhere? In any case, I think the FAQ could use suggestions/recommendations for exactly what to use with a PIII dish, and a R15, over one cable to get two connections.

Thanks!

[Earl Bonovich]

You CAN use the stacker in the situation you have listed.

Basically the "cheap" stackers that are out there, will only combine the two signals from the 101 sat which is fine for the R15

[leesweet]

Thanks, Earl, that is what I was looking for!

[leesweet]

Hm, took a look at SolidSignal's offerings, for an example, and this one
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=02&CAT=&PROD=SD575D

is $200 and "doesn't work" with P III dishes. So, now I'm really confused. [Edit: perjhaps that 'doesn't work with P III' means that it can't do the HD signals, which, of course, we don't care about here.]

I guess I need a technical description of what does work in this situation, or, 'how do you get the right stacker (at a reasonable cost)?'

[carl6]

The reason it says it does not work with the Phase III dish is because it does not support the additional signals from the 110 and 119 satellites. Those are accessed by your receiver sending a 22KHz tone to the dish to tell it to send the 110/119 instead of the 101.

The stacker only gets the transponders from 101, both polarities, and combines them so they can be sent on a single line and separated (de-stacked) at the receiver.

Such a stacker will work with the Phase III dish only to the point that it will handle the 101 satellite signals only.

So as long as all of the programming you are concerned about is on the 101 satellite (all of it could be received using a single round dish), then you can get away with using a stacker. If your local channels (or spanish, or HD) are on a different dish, then the stacker will not handle those.

Carl

[leesweet]

I think Earl said the same thing, no? All we need for *all* SD channels for the R15 is the one sat, so a stacker connected to the P III signals (two lines in from the multiswitch, of course...) will work?

I thought I remembered a price closer to $100 earlier in this thread, and I'll check again. $100 is reasonable to not run another cable; $200, hm, dunno.... :)

[gvaughn]

I think Earl said the same thing, no? All we need for *all* SD channels for the R15 is the one sat, so a stacker connected to the P III signals (two lines in from the multiswitch, of course...) will work?

I thought I remembered a price closer to $100 earlier in this thread, and I'll check again. $100 is reasonable to not run another cable; $200, hm, dunno.... :)

You should be able to use a stacker with a 3 LNB dish if your dish is a specific type. For more info go here: http://www.9thtee.com/dssstuff.htm

They have a bunch of diagrams for different scenarios and they have a PDF document for even more info.

[leesweet]

Interesting info, thanks, but on first glance I don't see it applying to my dish, a normal D* Phase III... Nothing on that page seems to talk about the plain usually used in non-HD-local market current dish (3 LNB, Phase III, with integrated MS) [they still use the Phase III where they don't have or don't care about HD locals, right?]

Guess I'm still not clear on what a garden-variety PIII dish needs to stack for an R15....

[Earl Bonovich]

You can use any stacker for the R15.

Here is why:

The stacker does nothing more (on one side), then two recievers does.

It sends a request over one of the feeds for 101-EVEN
It sends a request over the other feed for the 101-ODD

Same thing two recievers would do, your Phase-III doesn't care.

The stacker then shifts the signal of one of the signals to a different frequency range (I think it is the ODD).
Nothing at this point has changed with the communication between the dish and the stacker.

The signal goes over the line to the R15

The R15 then "destacks" the signal.
So when the R15 asks for EVEN, it just takes what is in the frequency range
When the R15s needs ODD, it shifts the odd back down to the proper frequency range, and all is fine.

Doesn't matter if you have a Dual LNB, Phase III, AT9, or Slimline dishes.

[gvaughn]

Nothing on that page seems to talk about the plain usually used in non-HD-local market current dish (3 LNB, Phase III, with integrated MS)

I don't know enough to answer specific questions, although Earl's post above hopefully answers most/all of your questions, but I don't think there is a "standard" dish.

It's region-specific to determine your needs. I live in So. Cal where the "typical" non-HD dish is only a 2 LNB dish since our locals are all on the main satellite. Apparently your standard is a 3 LNB dish (I assume that means it's a multi-satellite dish?).

Wish I could be of more help...

[leesweet]

I guess I confused things a little... by 'standard', I sort of meant 'top of the line', since at one point I thought all new installs were the Phase III to simplify things (until the special cases of a separate satellite for locals, or the 5 LNB for HD locals, of course, came along...).

If they are still installing 1 or 2 LNBs for non-HD, then all bets are off, and thanks for the info.

Now, what Earl says is what I thought, but the marketplace is totally confusing with all the 'doesn't work with Phase III' ad copy. I assume they mean it doesn't do HD, and I understand all that.

Now to find one that's reasonable. I still can't see paying $200 for this beast, even though the *de*stacker is already included in the R15.

Thanks for all the clarification, folks!

[leesweet]

I've been searching for a stacker and about all I can find is that same Sonora 575 below that is $200 ($50 off list) at SolidSignal.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SUS575-T


Is that unit and price about the norm for a compatible stacker? I could have sworn people were mentioning a lower average price, but I can't locate that post now... Thanks!

[Earl Bonovich]

That is about right... I haven' seen many stackers for less

[Halo]

Check ebay, search "stacker dbs" or "us575".

[Clint Lamor]

Check ebay, search "stacker dbs" or "us575".

Thanks for the model number. I just bought one for $39.95 off ebay. I need one as running a second line is out of the question at my house. :D

[leesweet]

Thanks for that... I thought $200 was a bit high. :)

[stoddman316]

:hurah:

I used your advise and found the hidden menu. My stuff works!!!:hurah: :hurah: :hurah:

[qwerty]

:hurah:

I used your advise and found the hidden menu. My stuff works!!!:hurah: :hurah: :hurah:

I just saw this thread and thought to myself..."I didn't reply in the actual thread that had the menu, did I"?

Glad you're up and running.

[The Merg]

Just saw this thread.

If I'm reading it correctly, it is sort of a way to get SWM functionalilty without having SWM. Since you are connecting a Stacker after the multi-switch, you only need to run one line to your receiver. Right before the receiver you have a splitter so that you can actually hook up two lines to the R15. Is that right?

- Merg

[qwerty]

Just saw this thread.

If I'm reading it correctly, it is sort of a way to get SWM functionalilty without having SWM. Since you are connecting a Stacker after the multi-switch, you only need to run one line to your receiver. Right before the receiver you have a splitter so that you can actually hook up two lines to the R15. Is that right?

- Merg

I'm no expert, but that's the way I understand it to work.

[gvaughn]

Just saw this thread.

If I'm reading it correctly, it is sort of a way to get SWM functionalilty without having SWM. Since you are connecting a Stacker after the multi-switch, you only need to run one line to your receiver. Right before the receiver you have a splitter so that you can actually hook up two lines to the R15. Is that right?

- Merg

It's not the same as a SWM. It's similar...but you can't really use it for many of the purposes of a SWM (namely for HD programming and more advanced dishes with more than 3 (?) LNBs). If you have a multi-switch in your setup...you should read this (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=109089) thread and the problems I faced regarding using a stacker and a multi-switch. Bottom line: if you have a multi-switch, you will need a polarity locker to use alongside your stacker for the R15.

[The Merg]

Yeah, I figured it wasn't an SWM, but would kinda, sorta give you the functionality of an SWM--in that you only needed to run one cable from your multi-switch to a room instead of two. From what you're saying though, this will not work if you want to have HD content though (HR20/21), correct?

- Merg

[gvaughn]

Yeah, I figured it wasn't an SWM, but would kinda, sorta give you the functionality of an SWM--in that you only needed to run one cable from your multi-switch to a room instead of two. From what you're saying though, this will not work if you want to have HD content though (HR20/21), correct?
that is correct. It will NOT work for HD.

An SWM is a very advanced version of a stacker. As I understand it, a "stacker" as we talk about it is the primitive version of an SWM for non-HD content, and only for 2 (or 3?) or less LNB dishes.

[carl6]

Stacking and SWM are totally different types of technology. Stacking puts all of the channels onto a single coax. SWM only puts specifically requested channels onto the coax. Stacking is limited by the available bandwidth the coax can handle - basically constraining you to a couple of satellite feeds total (specifically not including the new mpeg4 HD feeds). SWM does not have that constraint, as it only uses 9 total channel spaces (8 for supported tuners and 1 for two-way communication link to the receivers).

Carl

[gvaughn]

Stacking and SWM are totally different types of technology. Stacking puts all of the channels onto a single coax. SWM only puts specifically requested channels onto the coax. Stacking is limited by the available bandwidth the coax can handle - basically constraining you to a couple of satellite feeds total (specifically not including the new mpeg4 HD feeds). SWM does not have that constraint, as it only uses 9 total channel spaces (8 for supported tuners and 1 for two-way communication link to the receivers).

Thanks for the correction. As I was typing this...I was going to ask if it makes it more like an advanced version of a multi-switch...but then again...duh. It is a "single wire" multi-switch.