Vip622: HDMI vs Component - Color issue

[Ruddeger]

Have had my 622 for a week or so now & by & large love it.
This is my first experience w/ HDTV.
One thing though....

HDMI out did not work when the tuner was installed. Component out worked fine. Replaced HDMI cable & tried again (approx 5 days after original setup) & then HDMI worked.
But...
picture quality is not as good via HDMI as it is via component.
The detail looks similar but the color is worse. HDMI is noticeably washed out looking. The blacks aren't as black & the brights don't pop.
My TV is a Vizio 50inch. It doesn't have separate picture settings per input.

The HDMI cable is only 6' long.
I don't expect HDMI to be much better than component but I certainly expect it not to be worse.
And I'd like to use HDMI because it brings in audio w/ it so this is kind of important to me.

Anyone have any insight?
Thanks.

[steelhorse]

I have the same issue with mine. I think part of the problem is that with component your local tv settings are in effect. With hdmi, I think it is just the way it is. You can't adjust anything. At least on my samsung dlp it is that way.

[lujan]

On my Mitsubishi 62525 I had to change all the settings (contrast, brightness, color, etc.) drastically to get the HDMI input to look as radiant as the component input. It is very surprising how much you have to change it to look as good as component on some sets. The HDMI now looks slightly better than component after all these changes.

[Steve H]

And I'd like to use HDMI because it brings in audio w/ it so this is kind of important to me.

Anyone have any insight?
Thanks.


Just a FYI, your HDMI will not give you Dolby from your 622. You need to run optical for that.

[ctshead]

Have had my 622 for a week or so now & by & large love it.
This is my first experience w/ HDTV.
One thing though....

HDMI out did not work when the tuner was installed. Component out worked fine. Replaced HDMI cable & tried again (approx 5 days after original setup) & then HDMI worked.
But...
picture quality is not as good via HDMI as it is via component.
The detail looks similar but the color is worse. HDMI is noticeably washed out looking. The blacks aren't as black & the brights don't pop.
My TV is a Vizio 50inch. It doesn't have separate picture settings per input.

The HDMI cable is only 6' long.
I don't expect HDMI to be much better than component but I certainly expect it not to be worse.
And I'd like to use HDMI because it brings in audio w/ it so this is kind of important to me.

Anyone have any insight?
Thanks.

I have found the exact same problem with HDMI vs component.
HDMI from my DVD player is perfect, so I know its the 622.
The 622 doesnt list a "HDMI" port but a "HDTV" port. Dish needs to fix the color saturation levels for the HDMI, there just too low.

HDMI is capable of carrying dolby digital 5.1 and all other current formats that SPDIF uses.
HDMI V1.2 can also carry superaudio as well.
That said, I dont know what the 622 uses over their HDTV port.

[dirtydan]

Have had my 622 for a week or so now & by & large love it.
This is my first experience w/ HDTV.
One thing though....

HDMI out did not work when the tuner was installed. Component out worked fine. Replaced HDMI cable & tried again (approx 5 days after original setup) & then HDMI worked.
But...
picture quality is not as good via HDMI as it is via component.
The detail looks similar but the color is worse. HDMI is noticeably washed out looking. The blacks aren't as black & the brights don't pop.
My TV is a Vizio 50inch. It doesn't have separate picture settings per input.

The HDMI cable is only 6' long.
I don't expect HDMI to be much better than component but I certainly expect it not to be worse.
And I'd like to use HDMI because it brings in audio w/ it so this is kind of important to me.

Anyone have any insight?
Thanks.
I have seen the difference between HDMI and Component, luckily for me I can change settings individually for each input, so they all look about the same.

[lparsons21]

Just a FYI, your HDMI will not give you Dolby from your 622. You need to run optical for that.

What makes you say that? I know that digital audio is supposed to be there, and I do know that audio is on it as the only connect to my TV from the 622 is on the HDMI cable.

I use the optical, but that is because I have an HTIB that I run all audio through.

[rocky01]

My experience is exactly opposite, HDMI has lots of vibrant color and fine detail, component is duller all the way around. A set of high performance cables used in each. I have a Digital 720p DLP which may be the difference ...

[Steve H]

What makes you say that? I know that digital audio is supposed to be there, and I do know that audio is on it as the only connect to my TV from the 622 is on the HDMI cable.

I use the optical, but that is because I have an HTIB that I run all audio through.

That is the only way I can get Dolby out of my 622 plus that is what the 622 instruction book says.

[bimmerboy750]

Begs the question:

Does anyone know if there's a hidden service menu to make color/contrast adjustments on the 622?

[acnownzu]

Are you noticing that HDMI looks worse with SD, HD, or both? A lot of people have found that with many receivers they get better SD quality when using component or S-video rather than DVI/HDMI. However, if you are getting a lower quality HD picture with HDMI, then there must be a problem.

I think it has to do with the lack of independent settings on your TV. On my calibrated Samsung DLP, my settings for Component and DVI are different in both the service menu and user menu. However, while the DVI input has better PQ overall, it's nothing drastic.

[rpc981]

I first posted this in a different thread, but it looks like this is the place to be.

On the one hand, the picture looks really clean. But, on the other hand there is hardly any contrast. I'm going through the hdmi output with a 10' cable into a Mitsubishi 52" dlp. I have a Comcast DVR and still have my 921 - both going through component video and the picture looks great on both. I'm wondering if the 622 is defective. The tv has independent adjustment capability for each input and I've tried turning the contrast way up and brightness. Every variation I can think of, but no "pop" to the picture.

I haven't tried component yet on the 622, but REALLY, we shouldn't have to. It's a digital world now and why should we have to convert the signal to analog and back again by going through component.

BTW - I used to run a DVI to HDMI 10' cable from my 921 and it looked great.

[BobMurdoch]

My HDMI output DID look great. Component seems to be duller color wise. (Deal or No Deal doesn't look as bright).

Of course since my HDMI output only outputs a blank black screen now, I'm stuck with component inputs until then.

Isn't everybody happy with their more "robust" audio on their analog coaxial output?

Because everyone I know has hooked up THEIR high end HD PVR with non-HD, non Dolby Digital connections, so that DOES make more sense to focus on first.

Does anyone have a napkin? My dripping sarcasm is starting to pool on my chin.....

[wje]

HDMI vs component is a complex issue. It isn't determined just by the 622, but also by how the TV processes the two.

Some sets convert the HDMI data stream into the (analog PrPbY) component form very early on. This is somewhat silly, because that analog component signal is then digitized for video processing. That's typically done because the video processor expects digitized PrPbY data. Some keep it digital. Depends mostly upon how and where in the signal processing chain the video processing is done in the set.

Somtimes the D/A conversion done by the 622 to produce component output is better than the equivalent processing done in the TV (such as when the set does HDMI->analog). Sometimes it's not.

Sometimes the scaler in the 622 is better, sometimes it's not.

Also note that HD uses a different color space from SD. Some sets (such as my Sony) have independent settings per input. Some don't.

There's been a lot of discussion of this on the HD Tivo forum over at tivocommunity.

All in all, it's a miracle that any of this stuff actually works. :D

[lparsons21]

That is the only way I can get Dolby out of my 622 plus that is what the 622 instruction book says.

That is strange as digital audio is part of the HDMI spec.

As a test, and it certainly isn't a really good test, I set the 622 to Dolby out only and set the TV audio to come through the TV speakers.

I'm getting good sound and it appears to be stereo, which is as good as the tv audio circuits can do. From that, I infer that the digital audio is on the HDMI cable since as far as I can determine, HDMI doesn't have analog audio in the spec.

Unfortunately, my TV does not have a digital audio out so I could hook that to my HTIB and it would indicate exactly what is going on.

[lparsons21]

My HDMI video for the HD channels is wonderful and I think that it is better than the component video. If it isn't, the differences are so slight that these old eyes just aren't good enough. ;-)

For SD video I have found that S-Video is one way to get good quality, but I am using that for my DVD recorder. So, as pointed out in a different thread, if I'm watching SD (and not surfing <G>), I set the 622 to 4x3#2 and 480i. Then I get a better, full picture on my 61" HDTV.

YMMV, of course.

[normang]

Not having an HDMI set to worry about this yet.... I don't see how you break out digital audio from an HDMI cable to your stereo system where you would want it. And I have not seen TV's that provide 5.1 sound, at least not in the way I would expect it to be setup in a room.. So the digital output to me seems to be the optimal method of getting surround sound...

[lparsons21]

Not having an HDMI set to worry about this yet.... I don't see how you break out digital audio from an HDMI cable to your stereo system where you would want it. And I have not seen TV's that provide 5.1 sound, at least not in the way I would expect it to be setup in a room.. So the digital output to me seems to be the optimal method of getting surround sound...

Breaking out the signal isn't practical as you note. And I do use the optical for my surround as that is the only way I can get the effect of the 5.1. But there are sets that claim a 'projected' rear channel from the 2 itty-bitty speakers in the TV.

And there are higher end Audio/Video amps that take HDMI in and outs to give total control from one location. Well, of course there is turning on the TV and Sat receiver involved, too! ;-)

For those amps, picking up 5.1 from the HDMI should be a given...

While I enjoy the big screen and the excellent sound from my Pioneer HTIB, I am willing to put up with multiple remotes rather than taking out a mortgage to get one of those high-end jobs.

[Steve H]

That is strange as digital audio is part of the HDMI spec.

As a test, and it certainly isn't a really good test, I set the 622 to Dolby out only and set the TV audio to come through the TV speakers.

I'm getting good sound and it appears to be stereo, which is as good as the tv audio circuits can do. From that, I infer that the digital audio is on the HDMI cable since as far as I can determine, HDMI doesn't have analog audio in the spec.

Unfortunately, my TV does not have a digital audio out so I could hook that to my HTIB and it would indicate exactly what is going on.

The HD "plug" on the back of the 622 is not a true HDMI output. It is labeled High Def. TV. If you could got from there to a audio receiver that will process Dolby you will see that the 622 "HI Def output " does not carry the Dolby signal. That is why they have the Opitical output, it is for Dolby. You can get good 5 channel or 7 channel stero thru a HDMI cable from the 622 but not DOLBY.

[madbrain]

Hi,

Have had my 622 for a week or so now & by & large love it.
This is my first experience w/ HDTV.
One thing though....

HDMI out did not work when the tuner was installed. Component out worked fine. Replaced HDMI cable & tried again (approx 5 days after original setup) & then HDMI worked.
But...
picture quality is not as good via HDMI as it is via component.
The detail looks similar but the color is worse. HDMI is noticeably washed out looking. The blacks aren't as black & the brights don't pop.
My TV is a Vizio 50inch. It doesn't have separate picture settings per input.

The HDMI cable is only 6' long.
I don't expect HDMI to be much better than component but I certainly expect it not to be worse.
And I'd like to use HDMI because it brings in audio w/ it so this is kind of important to me.

Anyone have any insight?
Thanks.

This might be caused by the display rather than the 622 . Some displays have different presets for color, brightness, etc. for each input. I'm not familiar with your Vizio, but make sure that all the settings are the same.

On my Sanyo PLV-Z4 projector, with a 106" screen, the component output of the 622 is completely indistinguishable from the HDMI . This is with the HDMI connected directly, and the component connected through a Zektor component switch and Yamaha receiver. Component cable size is about 47 ft (35 + 6 + 6). HDMI cable is 35ft. However, I had to connect a Monster PB2100 line conditioner to make the component input look the same as HDMI. Before I did that, the component looked much worse (it had ghosting). Now I just use the component because all my other A/V devices do (my Yamaha receiver upconverts to component) so it's simpler not to switch the input on the projector, and the picture is the same.

[jgriffin]

Not having an HDMI set to worry about this yet.... I don't see how you break out digital audio from an HDMI cable to your stereo system where you would want it. And I have not seen TV's that provide 5.1 sound, at least not in the way I would expect it to be setup in a room.. So the digital output to me seems to be the optimal method of getting surround sound...

The current HDMI spec calls for multi-channel digital audio as well as video. My Denon 4306 does a fine job receiving Dolby Digital signals over HDMI - from devices that send it.

As soon as HDMI switching capability in audio components becomes more commonplace, connections should be greatly simplified. Multiple HDMI cables from source components, one HDMI cable out to the monitor, and you're ready to go.

The current HDMI spec will also pass decoded digital audio from the next generation HD DVD players, allowing playback of the new digital audio formats as well.

As for the component video vs HDMI question on the video side, I can't tell any difference between the two on my calibrated Panasonic AE900 projector.