Dish Pro install

[Danny_boy]

Here's what I want to do, someone let me know if this is possible and what I need.

I currently have a Dish 500 system with 2 dual LNBs and a 3700 receiver. I would like to upgrade to a 721 and use the 3700 in another room. When my house was built 4 years ago I had a piece of RG6 run through the wall from the entertainment center to the patio roof where the dish is located. I never thought about adding a second receiver in the entertainment center, so I only had the one piece of cable installed. Now the 721 has arrived (I really, really want one) and I'm trying to figure out how I could set this up.

Could I get a Dish Pro Twin (or Quad) and attach one output from the LNB to the RG6 that runs through my wall, then connect the output from the wallplate to a switch, such as the SW34, then run two of the outputs from the SW34 to the 721? The other output from the Twin would go directly to the 3700 (with an adapter or to a 301 if I upgrade). Would this work?

[Mark Lamutt]

Nope, sorry. You're going to have to run another line into your entertainment center. What you describe won't work for 2 reasons - first the switch is built into the dishpro twin or quad already. The only external switch that you would add would to be to combine the signals from your dish 500 with the signal from a sideslot satellite (61.5 or 148). Secondly, because what a switch does is combine the signals from 2 (or 3) different satellites into one output and then switches that output between the 2 or three satellites through the one line. You're trying to come up with a fancy way to split the one line coming in, and you just can't.

Also, based on your equipment description, you have an SW-21 switch installed up by your dish that the 1 line is coming out of now.

[DishDude1]

No, you won't be able to use any DishPro switch or lnb with that 3700. Even if it was, you still wouldn't be able to do what you want. You are going to need to get another coax to the room with the 721. Best thing to do would be get a quad, run an additional wire to the entertainment center and a wire to the new place for the 3700.

[Bill D]

Have they even released the legacy converters to allow the Dishpro switches to work with the legacy (older receivers)
Seems as if the adapters and new switches should have come first and then the 721, seems as if things are a little backwards..

[Danny_boy]

I have seen diagrams that show a Dish Pro Quad with 24 receivers attached. How is it that this is possible, but what I want to do is not? I guess I don't really understand how the different switches work. Do you absolutely have to use two outputs from the dish into the SW34? Is there ANY possible way for me to set up a 721 without running another RG6 through the wall?

I was also wondering what the maximum length for a cable run is, because I do have one other option that will be difficult to set up if possible.

[styxfix]

No. The 721 requires two RG6 cables from the DISH or the switch. Think as if it's two sat receivers built into one PVR machine. 100- 125 feet is the longest recommend lenght, but the new DISH PRO LNB & switches will allow even longer lengthsof cable. I would see if you could attach two new lengths of cable securely to the other RG6 cable running through the wall and see if you can feed it through. You still will probably have to go up into the attic? and help it along while someone else pulls the cable through. I had to do this several months ago. I think now that I may have to do this again.

[DishDude1]

There is no DishPro Quad out yet. If you want to use 119 and 110 then you have to run 2 wires to the DP34 switch. The only way your going to be able to hook up a 721 is to run another wire to that room, sorry.

[DishDude1]

Maximum cable run is at least 200ft for dishpro, 125ft for legacy switches.

[Danny_boy]

My house is two stories, the cable from the dish enters in between the first floor and the second, then travels through the wall and down. I'm fairly certain that the cable is secured to the framing as it was installed at the same time as the electrical wiring (before the insulation and drywall). This is why I'm resistant to pulling another cable through the wall.

I understand the that the 721 is two receivers and it needs two cables. What I don't get is why I can't put the switch inside my house. If you follow this diagram: http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2002/Disk3/MVC-020S.JPG it shows the Quad connecting to a DP34 via two cables, then from the switch to four receivers (only looking at one DP34, not the daisy chain of DP34s). As I understand it the Dish Pro Quad has a switch in it, so each of the four outputs has both 110 and 119. What am I missing? Do you ABSOLUTELY have to use input 1 & 2 on the DP34?

Sorry I keep dragging this thread out but I really want to understand why this wouldn't be possible. Just being told "no it won't work" isn't satisfying me. :)

[scooper]

Danny_boy, we're telling you that information because THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED (to the best of our knowledge) !! If you doubt us, go hook it up the way you want, but don't come crying that you fried your equipment (or that it doesn't work as you expect it to).

Yes you could put the SW34 inside your house, HOWEVER, you still need 2 cables coming into it (one for 119, the other for 110). Also, ALL cables to ALL receivers need to get routed through the SW34. You need both inputs to the SW34 because you need them for the 721. I suppose you could hookup just one cable (for 119), but then you wouldn't get the extended guide (and quite possibly any SW updates for the 721). One reason for putting the SW34 OUTSIDE is that you could ground your LNB connections through it.

We haven't seen any reference to a DISHPRO QUAD as available for sale as an end-user (that's you and me) replacement - that's why we aren't mentioning it.

[Danny_boy]

I'm not doubting what everyone is saying, I just wanted to understand.

Now, let's ignore the fact that the Dish Pro Quad isn't available. I was only using it as an example. In my original question I asked about using a Dish Pro Twin. (Hey, there's even a Dish Pro Single LNBF that gets both 110 & 119.) Is there anyone who can give me a technical explanation of how the switches work? Or point me to a web site that gives detailed info about this?

I really appreciate all the help! :)

[HTguy]

The DishPro single does not get 110/119. It only receives signal from one orbital position. It is designed for use for subscribers using one of the "wing" satellites at 61.5 or 148 but, in theory, could be used by a cust with one rcvr who doesn't have LOS for 119 or 110. (An example would be a T100 sub that can't "see" 110 because of trees, etc.)

The bottom line is that you need to get 2 "drops" from your Dish 500 to your PVR721 whether or not you use a switch, whether or not you use existing or DishPro eqmt.

[DishDude1]

On legacy switches and lnbs, a wire is required to the switch (with the exception of the sw21, because it is only feeding 1 receiver) for each oribital location's odd and even transponders. So that is 2 wires for each orbital loacation to the switch. So, if you have a dish 500, that is 4 wires to the switch, 119 odd, 119 even, 110 odd, 110 even.

On DishPro equipment, the lnbs use bandstacking. This allows the even transponders to be carried on a higher frequency, thus allowing both odd and even transponders to be carried on one cable per oribital location by raising the frequency of the even transponders. So, if you have a dish 500, you could use either 2 Dishpro single lnbs, or a Dishpro twin. You would need 2 cables from the dish, one carrying 119 odd and 119 even, the other carrying 110 odd and 110 even.

I hope that helps you Danny...and how about registering?

[Mark Lamutt]

Danny, if you still have doubts, by all means go purchase a dishpro twin and sw34 (if you can find them yet) and try it. I'll be the first in line revise my thinking if you by some chance get it to work. All of us are answering based on what we know about how the switches and lnbs work. The possibility exists that we could all be wrong because we didn't design the things. I haven't taken one apart to see what actually happens with the signal. But what DishDude1 says makes a lot of sense to me.

[Danny_boy]

Thanks for the replies, I think I understand now based on DishDude1's reply. On the Dish Pro Twin 1 drop is 110 even & odd the other drop is 119 even & odd. The Quad Is 2 110 e&o and 2 119 e&o. That makes sense. I was thinking that each output was similar to an SW21 where both 110 & 119 were on each drop. I also got the impression from dishdepot that the single was the same way, basically an SW21 integrated with the LNBF. But since that's not the case I'll just have to go another route.

If it isn't too long of a run I should be able to go through my attic with the second cable and down to the cable TV box at the front of my houseand connect there to the line running to my entertainment center. Getting the box open is going to be a bitch but probaoly easier than fishing another cable through the wall. I don't think that this run will be longer than 125ft, but it will be about 10 times longer than the run from the dish to my current receiver.

If only I could go back in time, but alas, I have no DeLorean.

[vanoostrom]

Do you have any RG-6 installed for cable TV or OTA signals? You could use two diplexors and use that cable for your second feed.
You would need to bring a second satellite cable to the point where your cabletv enters your house. Put a diplexor there. Then put another one on the cabletv line by your entertainment center. You want to make sure that any and all splitters in the cabletv feed are rated 2GHz.

[Danny_boy]

All of the cable in my house is RG6. The cable TV and Sat cables were installed at the same time by the same crew. I'm almost certain that there are no splitters on the cable TV lines. There are four cable TV drops and I remember four separate lines that came out of the wall before Cox connected them to the main feed. The Only problem is that there is a box mounted on the wall that Cox installed and I think that I will need a special tool to open it.

What is a diplexor and why would I need it?



BTW: I registered so this is my first official post! :cool:

[vanoostrom]

Does your cable come in underground or above ground? If it is above ground, you can connect where it comes into the house, there should be a grounding block.

All the wiring in your house is typically owned by the owner. If you have more than one tv, you will certainly have a splitter because only one cable comes into your house.
A diplexor will combine cable signals (about 50-500MHz) together with satellite signals (950-2000MHz) onto one cable. A diplexor in reverse separates the two.

You can get a diplexor in many places. http://www.dishdepot.com for example has then in their accesories section

[Danny_boy]

I know that I own all of the wiring in my house; I had to pay the builder to install it. Cable enters my house above ground. There are four wallplates in my house, each one connects to a separate cable that runs to the outside of the house. From the street there is one cable run (provided by Cox). This cable connects via a splitter or distribution amp to my four, and is housed inside a weather-proof box that is bolted shut. It appears that I could open this box, but I may need a special tool. This box was not there when I moved into my house, so I'm positive that there are no splitters inside the house (4 runs, 4 wallplates). Since I don't subscribe to cable I assume that I don't need a diplexor. I'll only be using 2 of the cables and only for satellite. One will go to the entertainment center and the other to a bedroom. I think that this will be the best and easiest way to upgrade.

So now what I need to know is what equipment will I need to set everything up? Let me know if this will work:
Twin LNBF to a DP34 to 721 and 301 (or 3700 with legacy adapter when it's available)

[scooper]

Change that Twin LNBF to a DishPro Twin LNBF and you got it. If you can get into that box (or have it removed and you put your own box there), it might be the ideal place to put the DP34. You also need 2 cables for the 721 going to the same end-points.

[Danny_boy]

The DP34 will have to be located next to the dish. One run to the 721 enters at the rear of my house (this is the current run from the dish to my 3700), the other will have to go through the attic to the cable run at the front of the house.

Now I just need to start saving some money to get all of this!

[DishDude1]

Why not just get a legacy quad? It would be cheaper, you wouldn't need the dishpro adapter for the 3700 and no external switches. Cheaper and more reliable...definately the way to go.

[Danny_boy]

I can get a DP Twin and DP34 for the same price as a legacy Quad. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?

[scooper]

Going the QUAD route -
Advantages - don't need any "steenkin Legacy adapters" :) for your 3700.
Disadvantages - difficult to go beyond 4 tuners.

DIshPro -
Advantages - Going beyond 4 tuners is easy - buy another SW34 and away you go
Disadvantage - need legacy adapter (and the word I've heard is pricing these at around $70 each) for 3700 (and other older dish receivers) - and I haven't seen these available yet.

When I say "tuners", that's what I mean. You can think of the 721 as 2 "tuners", the other models as single "tuner" .

So personally, unless you see a need for 5-8 tuners, I'd go cheap and get the Legacy QUAD. If you're going to exchange the 3700 for a 301/501/508, then the Dishpro route looks good. IMHO.

[Mike500]

scooper;

Add to that, for DishPro;

Possible need to rebuild the entire connector and coax system of 2.2 Ghz. capability. All coax, grounding blocks, F81 barrel connectors, diplexors, amd "F" connectors must be checked to see if they will work for 2.2Ghz. Possible problems are kinks, bends, corrosion or other faults in coax. Only coax swept to 2.2Ghz is guaranteed to work. Possible degradation also occurs with age of the system.

Also, some dealers and installers have experience "beta" test problems with the DishPro hardware and software.

Get ready for "expensive" trouble shooting.

Most applications should stick to current "in situ" tested hardware and software.

[scooper]

Mike500 - no argument from me on your additional points :D

[Jacob S]

So those of us that are using the 721 with the DishPro lnbf and not using the 2200 MHZ wire are going to have problems using this then.

What kind of problems result from not using 2200 MHZ wire? or from using the right connectors?

Will it work at all and not work right or not at all? If it does work then what kind of problems will this bring?

[wwhite1]

just wait for the dish pro plus equipment to come out over the next two to three months its backward compatable to all the legacy and DP logo recievers and for any of you hardcore installers that dont believe so go here and see for yourself http://www.satelliteguys.us.showthread.php?t=15391

[MattS]

just wait for the dish pro plus equipment to come out over the next two to three months its backward compatable to all the legacy and DP logo recievers and for any of you hardcore installers that dont believe so go here and see for yourself http://www.satelliteguys.us.showthread.php?t=15391






Holy crap. Why did you just bring back up a topic that has been dead for almost 2 years?

[P Smith]

Pretty rude comment from 'Godfather' rank person :(

Scott posted the newest info last week from Team Summit. Why you control posting newest data in the thread ?

[Slordak]

... There's a post, from August 4th, 2002, asking about DishPro and having to use appropriate RG-6 wiring. Not DishPro Plus, just DishPro technology in general. Then today, almost 2 years later, someone resurrects the thread with a comment about DishPro Plus. Do you see how this is confusing and not particularly helpful?