(Real Old Thread) Installer tried to steal my second remote control!

[styxfix]

It seems that some of the dealers who are doing this 508 PVR install are stealing the second UHF remote from the 508 PVR for their business. When the installer came to install my 508 last week, he open the sealed box the 508 came in and quickly installed it. He wanted me to sign the papers for it right away, but I told him I wanted to make sure that it worked first. I could tell that he was in a hurry.

It's something I could have easily done, but if DISH wants a installer to come out, put it in and call for actavation that's fine with me. After the downloads were done, as I was following him around, I noticed that he put the second PVR remote in his back pocket . I was thinking he was going handover the 2nd. remote to me after he show me something special about it or give me a demo on how the unit works. I was expecting at least a minute or two demostration to show me some of its features. He ask me yet again to sign for the receipt for the release. I then ask him about the 2nd remote that he has in his pocket. He claim's that only one remote works and that I don't need it. Uh!?!? I tell him, "What if my roomate wanted to operate my PVR from another room on his TV since it's a UHF remote?" I tell him that on the DISH PVR 508 box it says it includes "remote controls". He says something about how his boss told him to keep the second remote control that was in the box.

I tell him that I'm not signing anything until I get everything that was in the 508 box that he opened and I paid for. He's quite shocked now and starts to give me the second remote from his back pocket and tell me that this will be O.K. because he already has four other PVR remotes in his truck from before he came here. I just wanted him to get out of my house now, after I had got the 2nd remote from him, and signed the paper. Usually, DISH send one of their own people (in their DISH van) to do installs. A friend of mine got the 508 a couple of weeks eariler, so that's why I knew it came with 2 UHF PVR remotes.

Does anyone know who I can contact at DISH NETWORK to let them know how some dishonest dealers are taking the 2nd remote for themselves? They're probably selling them at their shop or on eBay for some extra cash. I'm sure they would like to know which dealers are stealing equipment from their customers.

BTW, the "Users Guide" is for the 501 & 508, but there's an additional insert about using "DISHPVR reciver with two TVs" and right below the title it says this:

"Your DishPVR receiver includes two UHF remote controls and has connections for two TVs."

The 508 also has two TV RF outputs on the back.

[DishDude1]

Are you sure it has 2 RF outputs on the back of the unit?

[Frapp]

Originally posted by styxfix
It seems that some of the dealers who are doing this 508 PVR install are stealing the second UHF remote from the 508 PVR for their business. When the installer came to install my 508 last week, he open the sealed box the 508 came in and quickly installed it. He wanted me to sign the papers for it right away, but I told him I wanted to make sure that it worked first. I could tell that he was in a hurry.

It's something I could have easily done, but if DISH wants a installer to come out, put it in and call for actavation that's fine with me. After the downloads were done, as I was following him around, I noticed that he put the second PVR remote in his back pocket . I was thinking he was going handover the 2nd. remote to me after he show me something special about it or give me a demo on how the unit works. I was expecting at least a minute or two demostration to show me some of its features. He ask me yet again to sign for the receipt for the release. I then ask him about the 2nd remote that he has in his pocket. He claim's that only one remote works and that I don't need it. Uh!?!? I tell him, "What if my roomate wanted to operate my PVR from another room on his TV since it's a UHF remote?" I tell him that on the DISH PVR 508 box it says it includes "remote controls". He says something about how his boss told him to keep the second remote control that was in the box.

I tell him that I'm not signing anything until I get everything that was in the 508 box that he opened and I paid for. He's quite shocked now and starts to give me the second remote from his back pocket and tell me that this will be O.K. because he already has four other PVR remotes in his truck from before he came here. I just wanted him to get out of my house now, after I had got the 2nd remote from him, and signed the paper. Usually, DISH send one of their own people (in their DISH van) to do installs. A friend of mine got the 508 a couple of weeks eariler, so that's why I knew it came with 2 UHF PVR remotes.

Does anyone know who I can contact at DISH NETWORK to let them know how some dishonest dealers are taking the 2nd remote for themselves? They're probably selling them at their shop or on eBay for some extra cash. I'm sure they would like to know which dealers are stealing equipment from their customers.

BTW, the "Users Guide" is for the 501 & 508, but there's an additional insert about using "DISHPVR reciver with two TVs" and right below the title it says this:

"Your DishPVR receiver includes two UHF remote controls and has connections for two TVs."

The 508 also has two TV RF outputs on the back.

Amnother reason, in many cases, to shop with a reputable online dealer. Many of the DBS people in the field to day are second generation criminals :shrug:

[Richard King]

Amnother reason, in many cases, to shop with a reputable online dealer.
Or a reputable local dealer.

Many of the DBS people in the field to day are second generation criminals
Yea, right.

[Tomsoundman]

Sounds like Rking401 is a Local Reputable Dealer with no criminal record. If you live near Vero Beach, he can use your business.

Whisper: (is that right Rking?)

[Kevin]

Styxfix, send an e-mail to ceo@echostar.com and explain the issue. Many people on this board have gotten responses from that address and usually their problems are fixed right away.

[Richard King]

Sounds like Rking401 is a Local Reputable Dealer with no criminal record.
Yep, among other things, and I know I am setting up a bash fest, but I get tired of seeing local dealers bashed by some parties, especially when I would strongly suspect that there are more crooks on the internet than there are trying to do business in local markets supporting the local clientele. I must admit, however, that the odds of a second remote disappearing from the box is probably higher in a local market where the dealer or someone hired by the dealer installs the product than with an internet dealer simply because the internet dealer probably doesn't open the box (and often doesn't even know what is in the box or how it works) before shipping it out the back door.

I agree with sending the e-mail to ceo@echostar.com. This jerk should be reprimanded from the top and his dealership yanked if there is any history of such activity.

[Jacob S]

One - that is such a disgrace to say that internet dealers are better than regular retailers that can service the customer

Two - online dealers could take that second remote out of the box and then seal it back up.

Three - there was a retailer chat and there was NO mention of two remotes included with the 508. We were just told that it was just a larger hard drive.

Maybe if they had mentioned this on the retailer chat then these things would not be occuring so much. Some retailers thinks its a glitch or something.

How come are the 721's not coming with two remotes if the 508's are?

[Frapp]

Originally posted by Rking401

Yep, among other things, and I know I am setting up a bash fest, but I get tired of seeing local dealers bashed by some parties, especially when I would strongly suspect that there are more crooks on the internet than there are trying to do business in local markets supporting the local clientele. I must admit, however, that the odds of a second remote disappearing from the box is probably higher in a local market where the dealer or someone hired by the dealer installs the product than with an internet dealer simply because the internet dealer probably doesn't open the box (and often doesn't even know what is in the box or how it works) before shipping it out the back door.

<snip>

LOL ... No bash fest baby ...

It`s simply easy to locate information about one of the many long term online reputable dealers that are around if you are into a little homework with basic tools these days.

The endless post around the internet boards about calling four or five of the local dealers listed in a persons local directory and the type of people that show up ( or don`t show up ) is very interesting. Also, love the remarks about a guy showing up in an old station wagon with one short step ladder and two tools in his back pocket, that`s a real popular one.

Jerk-weed electronics ... I guess :lol:

[Richard King]

And how many tools do the "online reputable dealers" show up with when they come to install the dish they just sold?

It`s simply easy to locate information about one of the many long term online reputable dealers that are around if you are into a little homework with basic tools these days.

You, yourself seem to have a difference of opinion about whether the on line "reputable dealer" that many recommend here is actually a "reputable dealer". You take the opportunity to bash them often when they are mentioned here.

Jerk-weed electronics
????

[Nick]

A local dealer, Zodiac Communications
in Lawrenceville, GA, did my install two
years ago. The tech was excellent, know-
ledgeable, courteous and on-time.

The owner himself came out the very next
morning to drive the ground rod.

I always prefer to deal with local people.

[Frapp]

Originally posted by Rking401
And how many tools do the "online reputable dealers" show up with when they come to install the dish they just sold?



You, yourself seem to have a difference of opinion about whether the on line "reputable dealer" that many recommend here is actually a "reputable dealer". You take the opportunity to bash them often when they are mentioned here.


????

LOL ... OH BOY..........

Careful Baby ... Seems I remember you bashing the H**l out of that particular online dealer many times in the NG,s over the years and getting into personal posting battles with the owner and his wife ( if my memory serves me correctly ) which over the years I have noticed you are famous for with quite a few people. ( Wait , is this one ??? <G> ).

I have never questioned the reputation of the online dealer you are referring to, only the fact that as you know, they were able to spam the H**l out of the NG,s when they started and it was ok, now another online guy/gal from anywhere comes on with the same thing and they are banished in a heart beat. Simply does not make sense to me .............

Anyway, before any further flame bait is brought on board here, I will close on this subject.

Please, if you want to bash someone, get the facts correct :shrug:

[Richard King]

You wouldn't be Rick Stricker would you? The attitude seems about the same. Actually, I did call a spade a spade back then, but you seem to never forget anything and continue to make cute remarks about them on an occassional basis here also. Baby.

[Tim]

Mr Frapp tosses this out...
Many of the DBS people in the field to day are second generation criminals

Then proceeds with this...
Please, if you want to bash someone, get the facts correct

Frapp can you please put forth the facts supporting your bash?? Please cite "many" examples. Thanks in advance--

Tim

[jrjcd]

i'll tell you this-it's a WHOLE LOT EASIER to check out how good a reputation a LOCAL DEALER has than 99% of the jackasses who sell over the internet-...

if there's anywhere one needs to worry about how reputable someone is...

[jst4fun001]

Originally posted by styxfix
It seems that some of the dealers who are doing this 508 PVR install are stealing the second UHF remote from the 508 PVR for their business.

Just had mine installed last monday, and the installer did the SAME THING. Opened brand new box, and only gave me the cables for the install, and ONE remote !!

I would have demanded the second remote IF I had purchased the receiver, but because I was on the digital home plan, and because that guy had just sweat his brains out in my attic running all new wires, I figured I wouldn't complain.

But then both my 508 and 301 receivers died the next day !!!

After hours on the phone with them, they sent a much more qualified tecnician (vs. an installer). He quickly determined I had 2 bad receivers (for different reasons) and replaced both with brand new units.

I specifically asked him about the 2 remotes... and he said... "as far as I'm concerned, if it's in the box, it's yours"

So now I do have 2 PVR remotes, which works out great, because I can watch and control the PVR output from other rooms. I use the coax output to send the video on channel 3 to rooms in the house that do not have a receiver. :)

SO DEMAND YOUR SECOND REMOTE !!

[jeffwtux]

Wait a second. Steal SW21??!?!?!?! Is it stealing if you keep the extra SW21 on a 1 receiver install??? I hope not. I do it all the time. What are they going to do with an extra SW21? If I keep it then I will have enough extra to replace the few that my cutomers have that go bad at no cost. It's better for everybody that I do this.

[Jacob S]

That is what I do, I keep any extra parts that are not needed on an install because customers will just let it set around or lose them or throw them away then come back needing that part replaced. What I do is I keep whatever is not needed then when the customer needs something I have it stored away for them to replace it for free a lot of times whether that was the part I got from them or not. It just saves everyone money and aggervation later on. The ones that want to keep everything for themselves whether they need it or not are the ones that will get charged when it comes time to needing something where as the ones that were not so selfish are the ones that dont have to pay for the extras later on.

I could do just like the online retailers do, just ship you the unit and call it reputable, but I service my customers, and us retailers are bad because we go the extra step and service the customers that we have?

[scooper]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Wait a second. Steal SW21??!?!?!?! Is it stealing if you keep the extra SW21 on a 1 receiver install??? I hope not. I do it all the time. What are they going to do with an extra SW21? If I keep it then I will have enough extra to replace the few that my cutomers have that go bad at no cost. It's better for everybody that I do this.

Yes, I'd call it stealing - if it came with the customer's equipment, it stays with the customer.

As far as "What are they going to do with it ?" - well guess what - I bought me a 2nd receiver and installed it myself. Are YOU going to provide that "stolen" SW21 to that customer / me at no cost ?

If these questions and answers are making you uncomfortable, maybe you need to re-think how you are doing business.

[belsokar]

i upgraded to the dish 500 through dish network, and when they came to do the install, they took my old dish after installing the new one...they then tried to take my monster coax cable, saying they were going to throw it away for me...I wasn't aware or not if for the upgrade that switching for my old dish was part of the deal, so I didn't say anything...I did stop him however on the monster cable...

[Jacob S]

Do you guys consider taking the old dish on a dish 500 upgrade stealing?

[AllieVi]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Do you guys consider taking the old dish on a dish 500 upgrade stealing? It depends entirely on who owns the old dish. I paid for mine and so it's my property. Clearly, anyone who takes it without my permission is a thief.

[Frapp]

Originally posted by Mark
I hope you know that monster cable isn't actually special. But I agree with you, definately stop them from taking ANYTHING of yours, you have to watch the installers like a hawk. Some are reputable (like MOST of the ones here - not the ones who admit to taking customer's equipment though), but many are thieves.

HEY ...

That`s what I said....

Just a bit of a different way though :D

[Frapp]

Originally posted by Tim
Frapp can you please put forth the facts supporting your bash?? Please cite "many" examples. Thanks in advance--

Tim


Consider your thirst for knowledge on this matter QUENCHED :lol: :thats: :D

[Nick]

Mark said..."Some are reputable...but many are thieves."

Mark will you please cite your source(s) for these precise statistics. Is "some"
more than "many", or is it the other way around. Also, which dealers have you
found to be reputable, and which ones are the "thieves". If you would identify
the specific dealers with which you have had experience, or whose reputations
you are familiar with, I certainly would appreciate it.

Thanks a bunch! :)


Nickster :smoking:

[Scott Greczkowski]

Folks , as in any industry there are good apples and bad apples. The best thing to do is research... research and research to find out whats best for you.

We have some very good dealers here who I would be proud to have them do some work for me, these guys are some of the best, of course since they are so good they do get offended when they hear someone picking on other dealers.

To drive home my point, I will say it again... There are always a few bad apples spoil the barrel.

[Dmitriy]

I'm glad that some of you got your second remote. I had a bad experience with an installer my self. When I first heard about Dish Network, I called my local installer(not Dish Network), and placed the order and scheduled an appointment with them on Saturday(3 days after my phone call). Then, after 5 days of waiting they came 2 days late saying that they were "busy" with other customers, I said O.K. as long as you install it right. Then they started drilling holes in my new apartment and trying to get the signal. After placing huge holes everywhere in my patio they told me it's impossible to get the signal and they need to put in on the roof, I said fine, let me ask my apartment manager if I can put the dish there. They told me that they where in a hurry and got to run and they would sent a letter, about the roof thing, to apartment office. After they left they forgot a box from model 3000(I knew nothing about it yet). After waiting for few weeks I figured that letter was bs. I looked in the Yellow Pages and found another dealer. After placing an order with him, he came right on time and installed new Dish 500 with a twin LNBF(which just came out) and gave me new 3800(which later was upgraded to 3900). This installer was great. The only problem was after he left, I looked at how he connected my receiver and found out it had S-Video. I went to Best Buy and purchased one for ten dollars, I thought it didn't come with the receiver. Later I found out that every receiver comes with S-Video cable and that he "took it"(stole), but I didn't mind since he was so polite with me and did a great job. Right now my signal strength is almost prefect(100+ almost on every transponder). My little story here concludes to the point that not every installer is bad, there are good ones out there(not on the internet), you just have to find one.

[Jacob S]

The 3800 dont come with an s-video cable. It does come with the three colored RCA cables (yellow, white, red) and the coax cable that goes from the receiver to the tv (or to the vcr/dvd player antenna in depending on how you have your system hooked up).

[jrjcd]

also keep in mind that not ALL the 508s have two remotes in them(at the present time) and it doesn't necessarily mean that you got shortchanged if you didn't get the extra one....

[Mike500]

When I install, I ask the customer what they want to keep from what I remove. Nearly everyone asks me to take it away. With regard to things that came with the box, some want the cables and the extra hardware, some do not. I generally install sw21's in a box. I just put the extra one in the box and show the customer. I've had DNSC come after me and tried to tell the customer they needed to pay for another sw21. They call me, and I call them back. The DNSC service person is usually caught in a bind and admits that he overlooked the extra sw21. I only take the sw21's and dual lnb's, if they upgrade to a dual, an sw44, sw64 or a quad. That's after I have explained to the customer that it would cost more, since they are getting an offset for the upgrade. As for extra cables, what installer or dealer would want the extra cheap ones that came with the system. I don't use RG59's. I make custom lengths. I do not leave 25 ft. of telephone cable dangling. My truck and my shop is littered with extra short cables that the customer doesn't want and I don't want to put in the landfill.

[crkeehn]

When I got my 7200 I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of equipment that came with the unit. The installer (Dish out of Baltimore) left all the unused cabling and the extra sw21, pointing out that I would need it when adding a second receiver. I was very pleased with the whole installation process.

[jeffwtux]

Originally posted by scooper


Yes, I'd call it stealing - if it came with the customer's equipment, it stays with the customer.

As far as "What are they going to do with it ?" - well guess what - I bought me a 2nd receiver and installed it myself. Are YOU going to provide that "stolen" SW21 to that customer / me at no cost ?

If these questions and answers are making you uncomfortable, maybe you need to re-think how you are doing business.

Then what do I do if they need it replaced? Charge them the $20 that it costs?? People who add a receiver and install it themselves after getting a professional install are the minority, the exception. I'm not going to set my policies by the exeption.
They have my phone number. I always tell my customers that if they ever need any extra equpiment, cables, connectors, and yes switches, call me and let me take care of it. I can get it cheaper than they will. If somebody adds a receiver and they only have 1 SW21, they will surely call me and I will surely provide it free, before the receiver even arrives, and if they want it installed,. I'll install it cheaper than anyone.
Sorry, but I get very little complaints from people who think I'm charging to much or not giving enough.

[MarkA]

"I'm not going to set my policies by the exeption"

No, you're going to set your policies by stealing.

[Nick]

Let it go Mark.

[dealers nemesis]

Jacob S said
I could do just like the online retailers do, just ship you the unit and call it reputable, but I service my customers, and us retailers are bad because we go the extra step and service the customers that we have?

I didn't have that happen when I bought from a on-line dealer.
I was given both of the SW21 switches that was supposed to come with my satellite system.
Is it stealing to keep the extra SW21 on a 1 receiver install. Yes it is stealing, and if you are doing this you are a friggin thief. End of Subject THIEF.
But what the hell right Jacob, you have to maximise your profits someway. Right.

Again another reason to know exactly what comes with a complete system.


Jacob S. said
but I service my customers, and us retailers are bad because we go the extra step and service the customers that we have?

I'd say you go one step further, you steal the poor S.O.B blind Right.

Another reason why, I am glad I did my business with the Internet provider rather than my local dealer.

I don't want to be serviced like that!

I paid good money to get the product and I want what I paid for.
Get what you paid for.

[dealers nemesis]

I think that whatever comes with the system from the factory i.e RCA jacks red, yellow white, S-Video cables, remote controls, SW21 or other switches and etc. is yours and should remain yours.
They should not be pilfered through by the dealer or installer for any reason.

Not all of us here are stupid, and incompetent at aiming a satellite dish to find the appropriate satellites. or routing a few cables here and there

Some people don't do their own install jobs because they don't want to deal with the hassle.

[AllieVi]

If the installer explains the situation to the customer (i.e., some parts are not needed for this particular installation) and gets an OK for taking any left-over equipment, I see nothing wrong. Most people who have someone else install their system(s) probably have no use for the left-overs and wouldn't care if it's taken. I would appreciate such interaction and consider it good public relations.

Of course, it's a different story if the installer says nothing and simply walks off with things.

I would expect the successful installers are the ones who do a good job and deal openly and honestly with their customers. Such things are noticed and result in referrals. If "Jacob S" is doing that, he can succeed (particularly the part about letting the customer know before taking things...).

[dealers nemesis]

I find it ridiculous that some dealers will try to rationalize that they are in the right by taking (stealing) equipment that comes with a complete system.
Who cares if the person getting the system installed misplaces the extra SW 21's or other equipment. Who cares if they simply throw the stuff away.
At some point when they do need the additional switches, for whatever the reason then that is where a reputable dealer will come in. He will then be able to make the sale of the needed equipment and maybe get the installation to boot.

By not giving the equipment to the persons is your attempts to make sure you clip this person again for the labor for the installation of the extra SW21. If indeed you give the person this SW21 free of charge as you claim you do. You probably wouldn't if the person didn't ask for you to install it.
You couldn't possibly do so if the person never asked you or told you they needed another SW21. could you?

If he did have the equipment like he is supposed to have in the first place, then it would be his decision whether he tries the install or calls someone in. Right

After all the hardest part would be the aiming of the satellite dish to the correct locations. IMHO

Lets look at this another way, Dealers/installers IMHO this would be the same thing if the person you are installing for sees that you left your signal strength meter, drill , ladder or something behind and then did not say anything but kept the equipment after the install. That would be stealing, but somehow I think some dealers here would scream bloody murder because they couldn't get their equipment back. But those same dealers don't mind holding stuff out of the box and keeping them for themselves.

An extra remote would cost approximately $49-$69 dollars, that is a significant amount to be taken for. Not to mention another $8.95 for shipping and handling to get it here from DISH.

However it would be good profit mark-up for some dealer who is not so reputable. This is one area where word of mouth will kill a business.

[Jacob S]

I am sick of you (dealers nemesis) putting me and other dealers down on this site, enough is enough, shut it up. I am not putting you down, so dont put me down. Its like you are aiming right at me or something. For goodness sakes, your not even a member of this site, your just a guest.

Anyways, I have had customers have issues with the sw-21 in the past and I gave them a FREE sw-21 switch because customers allowed me to have the extra sw-21 switch when the customer only needed one. I kept them for when one went bad just for that reason because I figured if they kept certain things such as that they may lose them or not be able to find them or something or even misuse them in which I have had happen.

If the customer wants to keep the extra peices I give it to them. I dont sell components for the most part, only if someone asks for a part and really needs one. I even loan out extra parts when someone's goes bad or loan out receivers for NO EXTRA CHARGE to help out my customers. Cant get that help with online retailers.

The online retailers do offer a good deal for those that do install the systems themselves an can maintain them as well, and can be reputable as well, so I am not saying that ALL of them are or are not a certain way, and the same are for the servicing retailers.

Also I get a lot if not most of my sales by word of mouth. I tell people that there are places that do sell cheaper but when you buy my product you buy the service with it as well and that the service is worth more than the product.

[James_F]

You have to watch almost any contracter you are not familar with. I have just finished puting a pool in and if anyone else has ever done that you know what a pain in the ass it is. I lost 2 shovels, a very expensive hose and they broke two of my Tropitone chairs. Bastards... That said, I would rather deal with a local person any day over someone on the internet. When in doubt just use http://search.bbb.org/search.html to start out... Also why not ask around...

[Win Joy Jr]

Originally posted by jeffwtux


Then what do I do if they need it replaced? Charge them the $20 that it costs??


Yes, exactly that.

[dealers nemesis]

Jacob S said
"I am sick of you (dealers nemesis) putting me and other dealers down on this site, enough is enough, shut it up. I am not putting you down, so dont put me down. Its like you are aiming right at me or something. For goodness sakes, your not even a member of this site, your just a guest."

I am glad you are sick of being put down, whine ass, I am not putting down all dealers on this site , only the ones who rationalize stealing items from a complete system. The 501's in question is bought , BOUGHT from Dish Network themselves, not from you the f***ing dealer. Get a clue you are only there to install the damn thing. So if you take the extra remotes out of the box then you are a Friggin thief.
For goodness sake you are not even a member here.
WRONG , I am a member, a big fool you are.

Now try to rationalize this FOOL, it doesn't matter whether I am a member or not. Does this help you to rationalize stealing parts from customers. Or to say that the comments are not valid, because I am not a member. I am a customer of DISH, who like alot of other customers bought my equipment from DISH, you are a dealer who installs the Dish 501's for Dish if they contact you for the install. We paid for the equipment from Dish and had to have the item installed by the dealer.
Not because we were too stupid to hook up a few color coded cables etc. We had to have the 501 brought in and connected up by the dealer. It is DISH NETWORKS rules.

I just forwarded this to a friend who is in your area and is a Dtv dealer. He is posting this information in his store. So do a service to DISH, give the customer ALL OF THE ITEMS he paid for. Not the ones you choose to give him.
Also I have had a lengthy talk with DISHNETWORK about the integrity of some of its dealers. I explained the nature of this thread and invited them to look at it. They did while I was on the phone with them. The matter is being referred up to CEO@Echostar.com
The person said that the DISH 508 is being sent with 2 remotes and both of the remotes are supposed to be left with the customer. they said that the dealer is not supposed to take 1 of the remotes or anything else out of the box.
They likened this practice as the same as a customer taking or stealing DISH programming. It is stealing cut plain and simple.

If you do give the customers that have issues with the sw-21 a free one then I say good for you. BUT , I hardly doubt that you have ever done that at all, if you will take the items out of the box in the first place which IMHO is a dishonest practice to begin then why the HELL would you give them something for nothing later on. ha hah hahaha
And then again if the items never went bad that they had, then why isn't that person able to make the decision to give them away or sell them to someone else...................
I can see thru your little scheme Jacob S. you ain't bullsh***ing me. How the hell would they misuse them. Sell the to someone else , which would be one less sale for you maybe. ROFLMAO


If the customer wants to keep the extra peices I give it to them. If you ask the customer if he cares if you keep the items for him and he o.k.'s it then that is o.k.
You loan out receivers. ha ha ha I doubt it.

Also I get a lot if not most of my sales by word of mouth.

You probably won't get a hell of alot as soon as some customer finds out that you took parts from his installation and kept them for yourself. and then starts telling others around town that you cheated him. as soon as word of mouth gets out, you're toast

But then again, times are getting hard for you and dear old dad. Aren't they!

[dealers nemesis]

I am not labeling all dealers as one way or another, only the ones who admit to taking items out of the box and withholding other items that the customer paid for. If you do that you are a THIEF. End of subject

so SHUT IT UP JacobS the whiner

Word of mouth will destroy your business. And I don't have to use word of mouth to do it for you. You are doing a real good job of that yourself.

I wouldn't do business with you based only upon what I have read right here in this forum and this particular thread.

[Jacob S]

Well I do not appreciate how you go and judge me like you have. I have told customers about there being an extra sw-21 switch and so forth. I DO loan out receivers or remotes or give out wire if a customer needs it because I DO like servicing my customers. Also I do not like to use the switches anymore but like to use the twin lnbf's and only try to make an order when I can get those because the customers tend to like the twins better. I have even switched out a few customers that originally had switches to a twin.

I do not know why you have to be like this. I just do not like it when someone puts me or other retailers down. I am not trying to cause any problems but I do not like it when someone says certain things such as this, I think someone should stand up for the retailers, just as you stand up for the customers.

Also on another note, what should someone do if they only get one remote with the system? Has this deal ended? I think the customer should get the second remote if the system did not include one. With as much more the 508 costs than the 301 I think one should have two rooms wired up included in that cost, that would help Dish sell more 508 systems.

I think they cancelled that promotion with two remotes and the free second room hookup though and some systems that had them before the end of the promotion had them in them still. I think they should not have shipped them in the box but had the customer sign something stating that they had received the second remote or sent it to the customer or something such as this so that they would have got it. It is cheaper for Dish to have a second room installed and ship the customer a remote than to supply a second receiver for free.

Do you guys think the second receiver for $50 is a better deal (getting the receiver, remote, and install for free) is a better deal than the remote for free along with the free install to the second room since two people in two different rooms do not have to watch the same show?

They did lower the price $50 on the 508 system compared to what the 501 system used to be. I think they done this to make up for the price of a second receiver and to give the customer a discount if they did not want the second receiver free as the promotion used to be.

[Neil Derryberry]

Guys, watch it. Cut out the cursing and name calling.

[Jacob S]

I never called him any names that I recollect and never cursed towards him, I have more respect for others than that, but I got cursed at and so forth. I do not like arguing like this and is the first time I have been through this but I was just standing up for what I believed in like he did but do not want anymore of this. I dont want any trouble, problems, and so forth. I just try to do my job the best I can and hate it when I am told I do things that I do not do and am pertrayed to be someone that I am not.

I also do not want any hard feelings, I just want things to be calm. I like this site and the info you can find out on here. I did not even know about some systems with the 508's not receiving the second remotes until I came on here and read about it, and I am sure a lot of others didnt as well.

[Mark Holtz]

Originally posted by Jacob S
I am sick of you (dealers nemesis) putting me and other dealers down on this site, enough is enough, shut it up. I am not putting you down, so dont put me down. Its like you are aiming right at me or something. For goodness sakes, your not even a member of this site, your just a guest.

(deleted)

Also I get a lot if not most of my sales by word of mouth. I tell people that there are places that do sell cheaper but when you buy my product you buy the service with it as well and that the service is worth more than the product.

Uh.... chilll? :shrug:

It's the problem dealers that we oftem complain about (like those who SPAM or telemarket), and we often don't praise the good service provided by the majority. My system was installed by the Dish franchise itself, not a dealer, yet the installer was friendly, even when a second visit was necessary to tweak the dish and replace a faulty power inserter.

There are also going to be the cheapies out there who want the lowest price no matter what. Well, being cheap has it's price in service and such. If you are technically competent, then cheap may be the way to go. But, if you expect service, expect to pay a little more.

(Although I'm mildly amused that the ISP I work for is cheaper than Earthlink and AOL, yet the customers feel that our customer service is better.)

[pointsfor$]

I will register later. This is my first post, and am only replying because this is the first discussion I have read since coming to this site. I have been greatly disturbed since reading the previous posts. I am a technician for a major retail installation company only installing Dish throughout many major markets in the country. I have been doing this a while, although I will be the first to admit that I have a much to learn. What disturbs me is that people would take anything from a customer that DN posts to be used on a work order. When we were using two duals and 2 SW21's on new installs, I would leave the extra 21 with the customer and explain to them that they will need it for another receiver. Stealing cable???? My company provides me plenty, so I cant imagine needing to steal any. If it is old, and cant be used anymore, the customer will let you used their trash can. As for the old 300 dish on upgrades....... When we first started doing the upgrades, we werent sure what we were supposed to do with the old dish and most customers didnt want to deal with them. So we collected them (hundreds behind my house!!). I didnt this until I had one customer call me personally and ask why I stole his old dish. This bothered me and I took him a 300 dish. I havent collected one since. Customers, more often than not, paid for the 300 dish so it is theirs. Other than pointing at a different satellite, lots of customers want the old dish to use on their RV. And finally, about the 508 remote....... That is stealing PLAIN and SIMPLE. It is in the customers box, leave it with them.

Thanks for reading my rant

[Joel B]

The DishPVR 508 will now be packed out with ONE Platinum remote and not two. The introductory offer of two Platinum remotes is now over. This introductory offer was to promote awareness of installing multiple TVs to one receiver. Now that the offer is over, all receivers are offered with a single remote. DNSC locations were notified to have installers return to stock one of the 2 receivers after Aug. 2nd.

[Dmitri]

While on this subject, can anyone recommend a good installer in northern Atlanta? Thanks

[TimL]

I've been with Dish Network/Sky Angel for 3 1/2 years and have had a number of installations.(2800. 301, 501)..I have been very pleased with the service level of all but one of the installations. (One insisted that we build a concrete setting for the dish which my landlord understandably would not allow..finally put it on a old TV antenna tower) The price has been right and I have been keeping all cables. I have at least one extra SW 21 switch. My last install was for 2 receivers, 2 dishes mounted on a metal pole for about $145. I do watch
the installer within reason..and I ask questions. The thing is, if you have questions, ask and if you think there is a problem, say so.

Tim Lones
Canton, Ohio

[kelliot]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Do you guys consider taking the old dish on a dish 500 upgrade stealing?

Yep, The second Dish could be used for 66 or 148 with the SW21 you also took.

[wondering]

I bought a 508 in nov dec 2002, I picked it up from sears. I t was brand new for them. Neither the box nor content label suggested two Plat remotes only 1. What gives. Should My 508 had 2?

[nostar]

Let's see. If you take something that belongs to someone else, I think it is called stealing.

Why not, without all the rationalization (I give switch 21s away all the time, etc.). Give the customer the equipment that came with their purchase, and the discussions would be over.

If you would like to buy some of the things that the customer doesn't want, then they should be aware of the fact that this equipment was theirs and that you were willing to purchase it.

When my dish 500 was installed the installer used my wire from the C-band installation, and he kept the wire that was meant for the 500 installation. I called him on this, citing the fact that the installation included the wire. he then gave me the wire that I used for my second installation.

Are you installers so underpaid so that you have to steal?

How do you do research the installers? I called Dish and the installers showed up at my door few day later.

[nostar]

When I install, I ask the customer what they want to keep from what I remove. Nearly everyone asks me to take it away. With regard to things that came with the box, some want the cables and the extra hardware, some do not. I generally install sw21's in a box. I just put the extra one in the box and show the customer. I've had DNSC come after me and tried to tell the customer they needed to pay for another sw21. They call me, and I call them back. The DNSC service person is usually caught in a bind and admits that he overlooked the extra sw21. I only take the sw21's and dual lnb's, if they upgrade to a dual, an sw44, sw64 or a quad. That's after I have explained to the customer that it would cost more, since they are getting an offset for the upgrade. As for extra cables, what installer or dealer would want the extra cheap ones that came with the system. I don't use RG59's. I make custom lengths. I do not leave 25 ft. of telephone cable dangling. My truck and my shop is littered with extra short cables that the customer doesn't want and I don't want to put in the landfill.

Mike 500. This all sounds very complicated, when all you have to do do is simply give the customers what belongs to them.

[beegfoot]

Wow! I can't believe the way people are acting on this thread!


Accusing people you don't know to be thieves? It shows a serious lack of character.

[Cyclone]

Not only that, but this thread is over a year old.

[beegfoot]

LOL!!! I guess I should look before I speak!

[Jacob S]

What some people have accused me of on this thread and an action someone posted on here that they took really offended me especially since they do not even know me. I really hate being accused of things such as this and I ask for items the customers do not need. Sometimes they need more than what they receive other times not as much.

I hate to let unused items lay around and go to waste and then someone else needing that item later on. If you get your oil changed and they do not use part of a quart or do not need all of the up to 5 quarts and you get charged the same is that called stealing?

[Nick]

:rolleyes: Who says there is no life after death. This resurrected thread proves it. Someone please stop raiding the cemetary! :shrug:

[jayn_j]

I bought a 508 in nov dec 2002, I picked it up from sears. I t was brand new for them. Neither the box nor content label suggested two Plat remotes only 1. What gives. Should My 508 had 2?

Everybody got so hung up on re-opening the installer as thief issue that nobody got around to answering the guy who reopened the thread :confused:

DISH stopped shipping the second remote sometime last fall. It was a limited time promotion. I also bought a 508 back in December and it only came with a single remote.

[Dealers nemesis]

Jacob S said:

"I hate to let unused items lay around and go to waste and then someone else needing that item later on. If you get your oil changed and they do not use part of a quart or do not need all of the up to 5 quarts and you get charged the same is that called stealing?"


Lets say you buy a pre-packaged oil change kit, in that kit comes a oil filter, and 5 quarts of oil. The car you are driving only uses 4 and one half quarts. What is wrong with giving the 1/2 quart left to the customer that just purchased the pre packaged kit and let him use the 1/2 quart (add it when necessary). Now if you go to Minute lube and it states up to 5 quarts of oil and your car only uses 4.5 quarts for lets say $19.95 then 4.5 quarts would be sufficient as your car is only supposed to have 4.5 quarts. and the ad clearly states up to 5 quarts.
Jacob S, so in this particular thread your analogy SUCKS! same as if the system you just bought is a DISH 500 SYSTEM pre packaged) and is for up to 2 receiver system. and you hold anything out of the system or substitute it with anything at all. It would be dishonest, would be the same as replacing both dual LNB's with singles just because you can save money for yourself and you think Joe Blow will never need the other receiver. And then again you maximize your profits later by having a two dual lnb's to sell to someone else rather than a single. It comes prepackaged from DISH, you open the box either in private or in plain sight of the customer and you take anything at all out of the box and keep it for yourself without the customer approving this YOU ARE A FRIGGIN THIEF!

[cj9788]

It comes prepackaged from DISH, you open the box either in private or in plain sight of the customer and you take anything at all out of the box and keep it for yourself without the customer approving this YOU ARE A FRIGGIN THIEF!


DUDE

GIVE IT A REST. THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN ANY INDUSTRY.

IMHO you are attacking people and that is just not nice.

What makes it worse is you are hiding behind the guest moniker.

Man up.

AND cant this thread be closed already?

[Dealers nemesis]

cj
Nobody is attacking anyone in particular, IMHO if you take anything out of the box without approval you are a thief! And that is in my honest opionion. Take it or leave it. If someone were to come into your home and take one of your receivers or television set that would be theft, because they are yours. The analogy sucked and still does suck. I just get a kick out of someone rationalizing or trying to defend that the practice is o.k. to do.
The definition of theft by law is depriving someone of the use of their own property for whatever length of time they are deprived thereof.
Best to leave the items in the box and give them to the owner or the person buying them.
When I purchased a two receiver system from DTV and only asked for just one receiver they never took the liberty of taking the dual lnb that I paid for and replaced it with a single. To do so would have been wrong.

[Dealers nemesis]

CJ 9788 says:
There are good and bad in any industry!


I totally agree with you there. Not only are there some dealers here that are good there may be some that reach that degree of excellence that should be highly noted.
On the same note, not all internet dealers are dishonest either, as some of the dealers have tried to imply.

One bad apple spoils the whole bunch, don't they!

I have had some very excellent experiences with internet dealers. And would not hesitate to deal with those same internet dealers again.

I do however find it sad to see dealers that will try to justify why they take things out of the box that they have sold to someone else that should belong to that customer. Rationalizing that this is ok is very sad and IMHO doesn't show good character. If a person buys a item as a package as is the case with a complete satellite system, a new receiver or the likes, everything that comes in the box should stay in the box and be given to the customer to do whatever they please to do with it....... If I were given a dealer/installer who did do this practice and I knew about it I would promptly call DISH and cancell out completely and turn the dealer in and hope that his dealership is revoked.
It is fu##ed up to find a dealer that would even admit to this. I think they would be much better off to shut their mouths and not admit to it.....especially if they are going to get upset when someone tells them in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that they are wrong for doing this... I mean, what did they expect for people to praise him and give him a medal or something? I certainly hope not!

The person who started this thread was upset because he caught the dealer in the act of trying to take something that was paid for by him (the customer).,

I feel that his feelings were totally justified and wouldn't have blamed him if he would have named the dealer in this thread. As far as buying from a local dealer or a internet dealer both ways does have its own benefits. If you are able to install the damn thing yourself and buy the item cheaper because you choose to do so, why shouldn't you be able to pocket the difference and get paid for the installation yourself. It would be the same as being a handyman and remodeling your own home, or landscaping your own property putting the sweat into the project and saving money $ while you do it yourself.......
So the saying you get the service with the product does not always make the strong selling point.
In closing I'd like to say that I can't and wouldn't tolerate a thief when he is stealing from me or my family.

[Jacob S]

Shall I consider this slander? I am sick and tiring of hearing from you. I dont go bash people in particular. If you have a point to say then say it, dont bring it back up over and over putting my name in your statements, that is obviously an attack against me and it seems like slander to me. Its one thing to make your point, another thing to go and do what you do and say what you do. You said what you said so hush up. I think you are a VERY rude person and you not giving out your real name, where your from, and not registering from this forum proves something in itself. I think this has gone way too far.

[Bobby94928]

Shall I consider this slander? I am sick and tiring of hearing from you. I dont go bash people in particular. If you have a point to say then say it, dont bring it back up over and over putting my name in your statements, that is obviously an attack against me and it seems like slander to me. Its one thing to make your point, another thing to go and do what you do and say what you do. You said what you said so hush up. I think you are a VERY rude person and you not giving out your real name, where your from, and not registering from this forum proves something in itself. I think this has gone way too far.

I think everyone should just ignore Nemesis and he'll probably go away. While he has a point, Jacob is right, he just rehashes the same point over and over. Nemesis fits my definition of troll.

[Dealers nemesis]

Shall I consider this slander? I am sick and tiring of hearing from you. I dont go bash people in particular. If you have a point to say then say it, dont bring it back up over and over putting my name in your statements, that is obviously an attack against me and it seems like slander to me. Its one thing to make your point, another thing to go and do what you do and say what you do. You said what you said so hush up. I think you are a VERY rude person and you not giving out your real name, where your from, and not registering from this forum proves something in itself. I think this has gone way too far.

Jacob re-read the topic from where you posted just a day or so ago.
This is in no way a personal attack on you Jacob, you simply asked the question about the oil chage , hypothetical of course and I simply replied. to your thread. My answer is referring to anybody who does this practice, NOT JUST YOU! There are other dealers earlier in this post that this remark referred to as well . NOT JUST YOU!
I don't think anybody can justify theft in any case. If you ask customers if you can have the items and they give them to you then more power to you! If they give them to you or anybody for that matter with their full consent to take them then who the hell cares what is done with the items. Sell them, hoard them, make a collection or throw them away. The word CONSENT implies that it is O.K. If I give my consent to someone to take the items then I have no problem at all with them having the items.

[styxfix]

As this happen to me over a year ago, but I'm really over this. As the tread starter, I would like to closed this topic.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Done. :)