4x3 output resolution

[Duncan]

Hi, I got my 622 setup on saturday and love it so far. I am using it with a 1080i plasma monitor via HDMI. When set to 16x9 1080i, HD and menu are fine, but SD material adds black bars to the sides. I can set the tv to 4x3 expanded, but then the menu gets clipped on the sides.

In reading the related posts regarding 4x3 HD sets, it looks like if I set the output of the 622 to 1080i, 4x3 this will eliminate the problem. However, I wonder if the output horizontal resolution is the same? I plan to check it out, but I'm just wondering technically what the difference is?

Thanks,
Duncan

[Ron Barry]

:welcome_s Duncan

Actually you will still have bars. If what you want to do is to get ride of the side bars in SD, go to a SD channel and press the format button on your remote. That will cycle through the different stretch formats. The 4x3 setup is for people with 4x3 TVs.

[dude2]

Hi, I got my 622 setup on saturday and love it so far. I am using it with a 1080i plasma monitor via HDMI. When set to 16x9 1080i, HD and menu are fine, but SD material adds black bars to the sides. I can set the tv to 4x3 expanded, but then the menu gets clipped on the sides.

In reading the related posts regarding 4x3 HD sets, it looks like if I set the output of the 622 to 1080i, 4x3 this will eliminate the problem. However, I wonder if the output horizontal resolution is the same? I plan to check it out, but I'm just wondering technically what the difference is?

Thanks,
Duncan

I would try using 720p as that is what most plasma tv have as their native resolution.
I use the 16x9 mode and hd mode and then just use the lower button on the left side of the bottom of the remote for the stretch and part expand mode to eliminate the black bars.
DO NOT LEAVE the black bars on the screen for any length of time. A friend of mine did that as he didn;t like the looks of the stretch mode and now has bars burned into his screen when in hd and the warranty does not cover that. In other words he ruined his 3000 dollar tv for being stubborn.

[Duncan]

I would try using 720p as that is what most plasma tv have as their native resolution.
I use the 16x9 mode and hd mode and then just use the lower button on the left side of the bottom of the remote for the stretch and part expand mode to eliminate the black bars.
DO NOT LEAVE the black bars on the screen for any length of time. A friend of mine did that as he didn;t like the looks of the stretch mode and now has bars burned into his screen when in hd and the warranty does not cover that. In other words he ruined his 3000 dollar tv for being stubborn.

Ok, thanks I will use the format button on the remote, I hadn't seen that yet. Will I have to keep hitting it when I go to the menu though? I can also easily change the stretch mode on the tv, but that is what I am trying to avoid, which is why I thought I should set the 622 output to 4x3, I'm just wondering what that does to the HD resolution if anything.

Yes, the burn-in issue is why I want to stretch the 4x3 picture. My plasma screen is the new hitachi with 1080i native so I want to leave it at that resolution.

Thanks for the replies!
Duncan

[Ron Barry]

Format settings are independent on for HD and SD so if you change it for SD it should not effect your HD format setting. THis is picture format settings like Normal, Partial Zoom, strech etc.

[Duncan]

Format settings are independent on for HD and SD so if you change it for SD it should not effect your HD format setting. THis is picture format settings like Normal, Partial Zoom, strech etc.

Great thanks! I'll give that a try tonight.

[DonLandis]

The Hitachi plasma you are using is a non standard configuration. It is essentially a square screen count of 1024x1080 pixels and the pixels themselves are 16x9 AR. That's how they achieved the HDTV shape of the screen. Hitachi is not the only mfg of this new technology Plasma.
Because this monitor technology is different than most on the market, scaling the picture may be difficult with standard sources prior to the monitor. I'm not sure how they managed the persistance on the interlace to avoid the 60 field flicker interlace has on most digital pixel monitors but I understand the image, for a plasma is stunning with regard to flicker. Most Plasmas, LCD, DLPs etc require progressive scan to avoid the 60 field flicker.
But the real problem is how you accomplish the stretch with outboard scalers and not lose display information. My first choice is to examine your documents that came with the monitor for warnings on screen burn-in. At CES, the question on burn-in came up for these newer plasmas and I was told this is no-longer an issue and the latest technology Plasmas do not burn like their earlier ancestors did. Check with the manufacturer and if burnin is not an issue with your newer Plasma, I'd just run it in 4x3 for your SD viewing. Besides, people won't look so short and fat. :)

[Squiglee]

My Pany Plasma will not use its own stretch algorithm when receiving 720p or 1080i so I use 480p from the Sat box when watching SD. I then switch to 1080i for HD programing.

I use a Home Theather Master MX-500 universal remote and have the M2 button programed to do all the button pushes to get from 480p to 1080i. I have the M3 botton programmed to go back to 480p. I much prefer the Pany's progressive stretch which leaves the middle of the picture almost unstretched and then toward the edges the stretch gets progressivly wider... very natural looking with no fat heads.

So no bars on the sides and the best of both worlds.

[Duncan]

Yeah, the stretch mode the monitor uses is much better than the 622 stretch. But I find the first zoom setting in the 622 to be pretty good although it cuts off a little from the top and bottom. I guess I'm losing a little resolution but that doesn't matter to me in SD too much. I like your macro button approach, my remote is full learning so I might try that.

The monitor manual warns against burn in, and suggests grey bars instead of black. It also has a screen saver feature that shifts the pixels every couple of minutes. I don't know how much that will help with black bars though.

Thanks for the info regarding the Hitachi. So does that mean that if I set the output of the 622 to 4x3 I will be sending the same resolution picture to the monitor? I ask because on that setting the monitor will automatically swap formats between HD and SD, but not if the 622 is set to 16x9.

The smoothness of the 1080i picture that you describe is quite successful imho. Also, I know there's a debate regarding the need for 1080i in a 42" set, but I took a look at this set and the panny and the samsung, and others side by side in the shop, showing 1080i material, from my home viewing distance, and there was noticeably more detail in this monitor. Not very scientific, I know, but I mention it because normally all HD looks great to me and differences are pretty imperceptible. But this I noticed and I'm happy with it so far. The Voom channels are really spectacular, very smooth picture, very few noticeable mpeg artifacts.

Anyway, thanks for the input, I'll keep poking away at it :)

Duncan

[omeletpants]

Interesting thread. I'm considering the Samsung HPS4253. I hate the idea of stretch modes on SD but the manual and salesperson said it's a must. OTOH, the set does have the shift pixel feature and gray bars would be an option

It would be so much easier to buy this set if I didn't have to stretch

[harsh]

It would be so much easier to buy this set if I didn't have to stretchAn alternative would be to choose a technology other than plasma. If you must have a flat panel, there are some higher resolution LCD units that are pretty decent and are less troubled by the borders. LCoS and DLP offer much higher resolutions (up to 1920x1080p) and substantially larger screen sizes for about the same money (42" Panasonic 720p plasma is about the same price as a 50" Sony XBR 1080p LCoS).

[jmsteffen]

I have a projector with a 103" wide screen and I've experimented with 720p and 1080i. Personally, with my setup, I get a slightly better HD picture using 720p. I use the stretch modes (mostly "partial zoom") on SD and think that the 622 does a good job scaling the pictures without making things looked stretched. It does cut off a few lines, but, hey, it's SD anyway.

... the 622 is the best receiver that I've ever had. Forget about the miniscule power issue and Enjoy!

[Squiglee]

One thing that should be considered (I think) when purchasing a wide screen HD tv is how the tv does stretch. Not all stretches are the same. Every mfg uses a different algorithm.

In my opinion, the Samsung stretch algorithm makes me seasick. It is too abrupt and distorted near the sides. Toshiba has a nice progressive stretch but the PQ (in my opinion) for SD sucks. Sony has great PQ but the stretch for SD is too exagerated at the edges. (Be sure and look at PQ in SD before purchasing... they always have an HD picture showing in the store.) I settled on a Panisonic because of a very easy on the eyes progressive stretch and supurb PQ in SD.

[Duncan]

I agree some stretches are better than others. I like the Hitachi stretch, but the 622 stretch just seems to be a straight horizontal stretch. The problem for me is that if I stretch the tv, then the guide menu is stretched which cuts off the sides. Maybe a software upgrade can fix this eventually.

The other thing I'm noticing is that sometimes when you are in 622 stretch mode for SD and you change to an HD channel, it automatically switches to "normal" or 16:9 format and sometimes it stays stretched, cutting off the sides of the widescreen format. My theory is that some channels, like local SD digitals, are actually 16:9 with the black side bars part of the picture, so the reciever thinks it is 16:9 format. Does that make sense?

[Ron Barry]

Duncan,

Not all HD is displayed at 16x9. Depending on the channel they will switch between 16x9 and 4x3. when in 4x3 you will see the black sides on a 16x9 channel. Sometimes they will place a border. ESPN HD does this a lot. What I do with mine is leave it at HD normal and at times I get the borders other times I do not. Since I don't have a plasma I don't have to worry about burn in.

[Jim5506]

If you're worried about burn-in on your plasma - turn the brightness and contrast down.

[colossus]

Format settings are independent on for HD and SD so if you change it for SD it should not effect your HD format setting. THis is picture format settings like Normal, Partial Zoom, strech etc.

Is there any way to get it to output SD for an SD signal and 1080i for HD only?

[Ron Barry]

If you mean output 480i for SD.. and 1080i for HD. Answer is NO and this is what you referred to as Native passthrough in your other post.

Native Passthrough was mentioned in a charlie chat recently but is not in the current released version. There was no timeframe given for Native Pass thru.

[colossus]

If you mean output 480i for SD.. and 1080i for HD. Answer is NO and this is what you referred to as Native passthrough in your other post.

Native Passthrough was mentioned in a charlie chat recently but is not in the current released version. There was no timeframe given for Native Pass thru.

OK, thanks for passing this on...excuse the weak pun. I'll call them and see when they're going to do this, if ever.

[wilme2]

Format settings are independent on for HD and SD so if you change it for SD it should not effect your HD format setting. THis is picture format settings like Normal, Partial Zoom, strech etc.

True for dual mode, but then again you are using different tuners. The problem is that in single mode with an HD TV and SD TVs, a format change impacts all TVs. Meaning you can't really watch both at the same time without something being out of proportion. Moving between my HDTV and my SDs upstairs, I have to adjust the format every @^%$ time. Sadly the 811 did a much better job of this, with independent settings for each output type...

[TBoneit]

OTOH if your TV has S-Video and HDMI inputs you could run two sets of feeds to it. On of each and just switch inputs between S-Video and HDMI for 4:3 and 16:9.

[harsh]

OTOH if your TV has S-Video and HDMI inputs you could run two sets of feeds to it. On of each and just switch inputs between S-Video and HDMI for 4:3 and 16:9.The disadvantage to this method is that if your TV doesn't up-convert, you'll get a 480i picture on 4:3 content.