Why Can't It Just Be Like Tivo

[rowpunk]

As a long time Tivo user, I'm glad to see DTV start to bring the R15 closer to what my DVR experience used to be. But the question remains: why the hell didn't they just use Tivo functionality as a starting point, then add the additional features?

I want to like my R15, I really do. But so far, I pine for my old Sony DirecTivo... bring back the ability to flip between tuners... bring back dual tuner buffering... bring back the auto jumpback after FF... aside from that, make the To-Do List and Prioritizer faster, bigger, easier.

[Earl Bonovich]

I moved this to a new thread, as it didn't pertain to the "upgrade" thread it was posted too

[jonaswan2]

As a long time Tivo user, I'm glad to see DTV start to bring the R15 closer to what my DVR experience used to be. But the question remains: why the hell didn't they just use Tivo functionality as a starting point, then add the additional features?

I want to like my R15, I really do. But so far, I pine for my old Sony DirecTivo... bring back the ability to flip between tuners... bring back dual tuner buffering... bring back the auto jumpback after FF... aside from that, make the To-Do List and Prioritizer faster, bigger, easier.

They didn't build this off of Tivo's software, but NDS's XTV software (based on clues we've gotten).

[gimme5]

bring back the ability to flip between tuners... bring back dual tuner buffering... bring back the auto jumpback after FF... aside from that, make the To-Do List and Prioritizer faster, bigger, easier.

I agree with you, except for the auto jumpback. With the R-15, I have a choice, either I press jumpback a couple of times to come out of FF or I press play. There are some cases where I want the video to resume exactly where I press play.

[Wolfghost]

I agree. I have gone thru FOUR BAD R-15 units!! I HAD a Hughes DirecTV TiVo unit for years and then got the "upgrade bug." I called DirecTV and VERY SPECIFICALLY asked the customer service person on the other end a long and detailed list of questions BEFORE I agreed to "upgrade" to the R15. OMG!!! Not only did she outright LIE to me about the R15 and it's features, this whole ordeal has been MONTHS and MONTHS of HELLISH NIGHTMARES and HOURS on the phone to DirecTV... I finally, FINALLY, got DirecTV to agree to either: let me out of my contract; or give me a $100.00 credit towards the purchase of a used or new (try and find a new one) DirecTV TiVO unit. I finally located a slightly used R10 and bought it. I have used it ONE day now and am back in TiVO bliss. I am SO GLAD to have my TiVo back!!! The long months of trying to convince myself that I would "get used" to all the problems,shortcomings and bugs inherent in the R-15 are now over. Months of reading this forum and HOPING, beyond all hope, that the BUGS would be fixed by some phantom "software download" are now over... Try as hard as I could, I could NOT get used to (tolerate) it all... Take my advice... get rid of your R-15 if it is driving you nuts... there are tons of used or repossessed R10 and other TiVo units out there... make the switch back if your sanity means anything to you. DirecTV should be ashamed of itself for using LOYAL customers as BETAPIGS and releasing JUNK hardware and software under the guise of UPGRADES. Yeah, I know my note here may be "off topic," but what I have to say needs to be heard here. Be a MAN and leave it here for others to read and form their own opinions thereof. Thanks. God Bless America and God Bless TiVo... God Bless that little Peanut-shaoed remote control... Long live TiVo... it is SOOOOO good.

[Earl Bonovich]

Take my advice... get rid of your R-15 if it is driving you nuts... there are tons of used or repossessed R10 and other TiVo units out there...

I will agree with you on that at least...

If you are not happy with the R15... then by all means, find yourself another DVR.

[RunnerFL]

Man, what is it with people using their 1 and only post, or their first post of 3, as a tool to either bash the unit or bash other posters here?

Did the join only to start bashing us? geez...

[jpl]

I just got my R15 a couple weeks ago, after my tivo died, so I can't speak for those who have had the R15 for months now. Personally I really like the R15 - and I'm not a DirecTV kool-aide drinker. When we first got the tivo (upgraded from a standard Hughes receiver) a couple years ago, to be honest, I hated it. I liked the ability to record on the fly, and to pause live tv. I liked the season pass and the wish list, and I really came to like the dual tuners. What drove me nuts was the fact that tivo had stripped down receivers in them. All that nice DTV functionality that I really liked was gone. Want PIG? Forget it, we're going to put the guide right over top of what you're watching. And it was so agonizingly slow to scroll. I also couldn't understand why in the world you couldn't access the menus while watching TV. That just never made sense to me. Want interactive features? Forget those too (DTV had the wink technology going at the time). Want customized channel lists? We'll give you one (I used to use all 4 on my old receiver). Want channel filters? And why in the world wouldn't you put a screen saver in a unit that can freeze live tv? I've read on other threads, people asking the question of why you would need a screen saver. When you have kids that pause the show they're watching so they can go outside to play for an hour, let me tell you, it's one very nice feature to have. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Yeah, I came to really love my tivo... for it's DVR capabilities. The R15 is so much better integrated - between the DTV and DVR stuff. I wish the interface to do the DVR stuff weren't as clunky. I wish some of the tivo features (dual live tuner, wish list) were tossed in. I expected to hate the R15, but the truth is, I really like it. I haven't had any major problems with it, and I think the picture quality is actually superior to the tivo. It took some getting used to, but it wasn't nearly as hard as folks made it out to be. I think the remote could be streamlined a tad too. But apart from those nits, I have no complaints.

I'm also in agreement with those who claim that tivo isn't as perfect as people perceive it to be. I've had it miss programs on me: I couldn't get it to record first-runs only of Monk to save my life... every two weeks I had to go out and have it find the latest episodes and I had to manually record them. Also, I've had it decide not record stuff because I would only have 24 hours of viewing before it would be deleted due to space (a future program was going to force the deletion of the older program within a day)... what's with that? Sorry, but if I have the space to record it, even if you can only give it to me for 24 hours, I still expect you to record it.

I also had hardware problems with it. Right from the start, it would freeze on me from time to time. It was sporadic at first, but then it got to be a daily occurance. It would come in spurts - freeze 4 or 5 days in a row, and then be fine for a while. I was afraid to rely on it to record stuff for me while I was away. When it finally bit the dust I was forced to upgrade. I'm glad I did... and I'm thankful that I found this forum as well - I've said on another thread that I've learned alot in the 4 or 5 days I've been on here. All the tips and guidelines have been wonderful. Just putting in my two cents.

[HockeyKat]

Why can't it be just like Tivo? Because it's NOT Tivo! I know that people like what they like, but when they buy something that's a totally different brand/type/platform/whatever, why do they expect all the same stuff? Sure, for a similar product, you would like similar features, but things can't be exactly the same, and I'm sure that is for obvious reasons.

whew... Sorry, just had to get that out. :D

Personally, I LIKE the R15. A lot. I've had a few issues, but nothing too crazy, and what used to be my main DTivo has had issues as well. I think the majority of the issues I've had with my R15 are related to signal problems I had with my old dish. All fixed now, though. Otherwise, I find it faster to navigate and easier to deal with. I look forward to the updates they have coming down the line and to seeing what this will be able to do that the DTivo couldn't.


*puts flame protecters on* :lol:

[Upstream]

I wish some of the tivo features (dual live tuner, wish list) were tossed in.

What does the Tivo Wishlist function do that the R15 Find-Autorecord function doesn't?

[Clint Lamor]

What does the Tivo Wishlist function do that the R15 Find-Autorecord function doesn't?

Be prepared to learn more about wishlists then you probably ever wanted to know. :lol:

I don't remember specifics but I remember from some earlier discussions on this tht they aren't really the same.

[Upstream]

Be prepared to learn more about wishlists then you probably ever wanted to know. :lol:


Good. I want to find out what I'm missing by having an R15 instead of Tivo.

One of my friends with Tivo says he never uses wishlists or suggestions. Another friend says she uses the wishlists, but the way she described it, it sounds like the Find-Autorecord function on the R15.

[Malibu13]

Man, what is it with people using their 1 and only post, or their first post of 3, as a tool to either bash the unit or bash other posters here?

Did the join only to start bashing us? geez...

If you've been around awhile..............you most likely know him. :nono2:

[wohlfie]

Good. I want to find out what I'm missing by having an R15 instead of Tivo.

One of my friends with Tivo says he never uses wishlists or suggestions. Another friend says she uses the wishlists, but the way she described it, it sounds like the Find-Autorecord function on the R15.

Can somebody who is going to respond to this start a new thread dedicated to it?

My best friend also has a Tivo and HATES suggestions (he says 90% is junk, but he keeps it on for the other 10% :nono2: ) but he uses wishlists regularly.

I think I understand suggestions, and it seems like a cool feature...as long as you can turn it off and the 'logic' is decent. The number of times I have heard him say something like "why the hell did it record "Road Rules" for me....like I would watch that" is VERY high. Makes me think the Tivo implementation of this is not too good.

The way he describes wishlists they seem EXACTLY like Autorecord to me, at least how I understand it. I have never set one. So, I too would like to understand what the issues are, rather than occasional complaints about not having wishlists.

[wohlfie]

If you've been around awhile..............you most likely know him. :nono2:

Occasionaly refered to as "he who must not be named" :lol:

Thanks mods for taking out the garbage so quickly....

[Earl Bonovich]

We do our best... helps when they make it really easy to figure out...

[jpl]

What does the Tivo Wishlist function do that the R15 Find-Autorecord function doesn't?

As far as I can tell, it appears that you have more options with wishlist - being able to specify by subjet comes to mind (e.g. I had one just for sports -> soccer - I'm a soccer nut). It appears that the R15 has a Find By Keyword, but it's not quite the same thing. It's close, but not exactly the same.

It's not that much of a show-stopper for me, but I preferred the tivo functionality a bit on that front.

[jpl]

Can somebody who is going to respond to this start a new thread dedicated to it?

My best friend also has a Tivo and HATES suggestions (he says 90% is junk, but he keeps it on for the other 10% :nono2: ) but he uses wishlists regularly.

I think I understand suggestions, and it seems like a cool feature...as long as you can turn it off and the 'logic' is decent. The number of times I have heard him say something like "why the hell did it record "Road Rules" for me....like I would watch that" is VERY high. Makes me think the Tivo implementation of this is not too good.

The way he describes wishlists they seem EXACTLY like Autorecord to me, at least how I understand it. I have never set one. So, I too would like to understand what the issues are, rather than occasional complaints about not having wishlists.


I had the same exact issue with the tivo suggestions. I couldn't figure out what algorithms the system was using for determining what I might be interested in watching. I shut that feature off (having the tivo record the suggestions) as soon as I was able to figure out how. And the thumbs-up and thumbs-down buttons were the biggest waste of space on a remote control that I've ever seen. The only time I hit those buttons was by accident. I know it was supposed to help tivo figure out what I would like to watch, but I just couldn't be bothered telling the dvr "hey, this is the kind of show I'm interested in."

[wohlfie]

...the thumbs-up and thumbs-down buttons were the biggest waste of space on a remote control that I've ever seen. The only time I hit those buttons was by accident. I know it was supposed to help tivo figure out what I would like to watch, but I just couldn't be bothered telling the dvr "hey, this is the kind of show I'm interested in."

Yeah - thats my friends attitude. As I recall, he claims they don't even work at the most basic level. A "thumbs down" on road rules and it still recorded it for him...at least sporadically.

If it was REALLY smart, it sounds like a GREAT feature. For instance, if it saw that I had a series link for The West Wing and suggested Aaron Sorkin's new show "Studio 60..." starting this fall, I would be happy to have the feature (like I wouldn't have known about a Sorkin show :D )

But if it is just saying, "oh, he records Survivor, so he must like 'reality' shows", then it seems useless.

[FLWingNut]

The biggest problem with the Find By on the R15 is that it searches and tries to record channels you don't get. That's not good.

The Tivo's wishlist feature is better, but suggestions are a waste, IMHO.

[cabanaboy1977]

Occasionaly refered to as "he who must not be named" :lol:

Thanks mods for taking out the garbage so quickly....

Awh, and I missed it? Here's another thanks to the Mods, because I didn't have to read C*******, oh that's right I'm not suppose to say the name :) . But thanks for making my reading this morning pleasant and not full of flames:grin: .

[RunnerFL]

If you've been around awhile..............you most likely know him. :nono2:


Had a feeling it was him but wasn't 100% sure. :)

[ApK]

When a new company come out with, say a new tire for a car, they generally start with something round, that stays attached to the wheel of the car while driving. Maybe then they try new materials and new tread patterns to try to make a better tire, but if they want it to be a success, whatever else it does, it pretty much better let the car roll on the road and not fall off.

They don't come out with a square piece of wood held on by scotch tape and say "well, this ISN'T a Firestone or a Goodyear, so don't expect it to work like a Firestone or a Goodyear! Give us a few months and we'll start to round it off."

In case some of you aren't good at analogies:
jonaswan2 and HockeyKat --The R15 doesn't need to be based on Tivo software for the designers to know it should reliably record shows and should not hang after basic housekeeping operations. They could also look at features that were successful (and not patented) in Tivo and other DVRs and learn from them.

[Clint Lamor]

When a new company come out with, say a new tire for a car, they generally start with something round, that stays attached to the wheel of the car while driving. Maybe then they try new materials and new tread patterns to try to make a better tire, but if they want it to be a success, whatever else it does, it pretty much better let the car roll on the road and not fall off.

They don't come out with a square piece of wood held on by scotch tape and say "well, this ISN'T a Firestone or a Goodyear, so don't expect it to work like a Firestone or a Goodyear! Give us a few months and we'll start to round it off."

In case some of you aren't good at analogies:
jonaswan2 and HockeyKat --The R15 doesn't need to be based on Tivo software for the designers to know it should reliably record shows and should not hang after basic housekeeping operations. They could also look at features that were successful (and not patented) in Tivo and other DVRs and learn from them.

How about those new tires they are testing that aren't solid rubber, don't have sidewalls on them and don't have air in them? :D

I get what you are going at but just had to give you a hard time ;)

[ApK]

How about those new tires they are testing that aren't solid rubber, don't have sidewalls on them and don't have air in them? :D

I get what you are going at but just had to give you a hard time ;)

Does the car roll with them? Do they stay on the car? I bet so! And notice they are still being tested, not just put on the market to see how they do...

Hard time? Heck, I couldn't have hoped for better if I'd secretly PM'd you and told you to say that! ;-)

[cabanaboy1977]

They don't come out with a square piece of wood held on by scotch tape and say "well, this ISN'T a Firestone or a Goodyear, so don't expect it to work like a Firestone or a Goodyear! Give us a few months and we'll start to round it off."

:icon_lol:

[Wolfghost]

I am WolfGhost, no one else. I have no need to parade myself as someone I'm not or engage in useless charades. If you really doubt that I suggest you do a modicum of research so the TRUTH won’t elude you further. My personal experience with DirecTV and the R-15 has been SO miserable that I felt it only FAIR to let other potential customers or R-15 owners in on my experiences. Yes, this forum has been invaluable to me in the months I tried to learn about and learn TO tolerate the R-15 and the horrible customer service DirecTV was giving me regarding it. No paying customer in good standing should EVER be treated the way I was. I was lied to, literally lied to, not once, but SEVERAL times by "Customer Support" people. Before I "upgraded" to the "unit" I called customer support and asked the “tech specialist” there the following questions: (keep in mind I was totally unfamiliar with the R-15 at the time, having only owned TiVos) "Does the R-15 have the EXACT same remote control and menu system as the TiVo? My wife does not want to learn a whole new remote and menu system." The C.S. lady assured me the menus AND remote were EXACTLY the same. As you know, they are NOT. I asked her if the FEATURES were the same as the TiVo, she said "yes." They are NOT.
After I got the "unit" I discovered that you couldn't get the thing to STOP anywhere NEAR where you wanted to when rewinding or fast forwarding... the dang thing would jump 1 minute forward, 1 minute back, FIVE minutes forward or back... and it was NEVER consistent. I had constant spontaneous reboots, etc., so they sent me another unit. Same issues, plus many more I won't go into here for the sake of time. Anyway, long story short, you guys can all defend the R-15 as much as you want and you are all entitled to your opinions, whether they are biased or purchased or whatever. This is America and you are free to believe and speak as you please. Just think a moment before you attempt to diminish what *I* have to say by branding me as someone I am not. You can attempt to diminish
my story by saying I am someone you have already obviously discounted as a "troublemaker," but you are wrong and the TRUTH will bear me out. Too many other people know EXACTLY what I speak of and THEY all know I am simply speaking the truth. I have no "allegiance" to DirecTV and no ALLIANCE with them. I am a paying customer who is annoyed with being provided a shoddy product and INSULTINGLY sub-par customer service. Deal with that. It's true. And as to WHY I haven't stopped in here before to "rag" on the R-15 and DTV, SIMPLE... I was still in denial, still attempting to convince myself that I could learn to "live" with the R-15 in it's current configuration. It was only after having my TiVo back for 15 hours that I realized I SHOULD share my tale with others out there who might be living in the same denial I was. I am not here to "bash" anything or anyone. I am not here to "flame" the R-15 or DirecTV. I am here to tell the TRUTH, as it applies (d) to me. If the truth is a bitter pill to you, then I feel sorry for you. But, being a trained and published investigative journalist and former newspaper Chief Editor, I can PROMISE you, I KNOW, full well, that truth is an absolute defense and therefore, I rest most comfortably on my defense. Maybe a ton of folks out there DID receive perfectly functional "units" and maybe those folks are oh so blissfully happy with their "units." But for those who aren't so happy with the R-15 and who aren't so happy with being sold a product that even DirecTV installers and Customer Service people ADMIT was rolled out to the public too soon... well, they deserve to HEAR a little bit of the truth they perhaps WON'T hear on this forum. And yet, why shouldn't they? Most folks come here looking for HELP. Would you all dare deceive them by continually bashing those who have legitimate complaints and questions about the R-15? Why do the folks who have honest criticisms of the R-15 and DTV get treated so shabbily here? Is it remotely possible that those who regulate this forum have a "vested interest" in supporting the R15, no matter what? You know, in doing my research I recently met with two DirecTV "sales persons/dealers” who told me stories of people who push the DirecTV "corporate line" and who support DirecTV without reservation being rewarded with free "dealer accounts," which means they get FREE DirecTV equipment AND free TOTAL PROGRAMMING PACKAGES. The one "sales person/installer" claims to have every movie package, every DirecTV bell and whistle and pays nothing for it. If, just if, any moderator of a forum such as this was getting such rewards for his or her affiliation and or support of DirecTV, then it would be nice if that person or that forum would have the decency to post that information in a clear and obvious location. If your opinion is biased towards the R-15 because you are being rewarded by DirecTV, then people deserve to know that, because, as I said, most folks are good, honest people who are coming here looking for honest, unbiased help because they are LOST... CONFUSED, FRUSTRATED, and at their WIT'S END... people come here for assistance, not B.S. And finally, before a handful of you go off all half-cocked at me, remember the essence of what I have said... yeah, maybe YOU did get a good unit. Yeah maybe YOU are happy with your unit or are willing to be patient until the day arrives when the unit will be "fixed" by some miraculous midnight software download and THEN you will be happy. But I was not like you and am not like you. I asked all the pertinent questions UP FRONT and was still sold a product that was NOT as promised. Why ME telling my story, telling the TRUTH, should agitate some of you here is amazing to me. Why should the truth BOTHER you so much and why would you attempt to impugn the word of someone you DO NOT KNOW and have NEVER MET just because that person relates a story that you dislike? Like I said, the truth is an absolute defense and I stand on my defense. And I MAY not post or reply again in this forum, not because I have some “ulterior motive,” but because I have made my points, I have told my story and I am not going to engage in argumentative discourse with a handful of people who refuse to accept reality and who refuse to understand that some other person’s opinion, some other person’s TRUTH might just be as “legitimate” as their own. I have no interest in playing juvenile name-calling games, etc. So no, I am not using my 1, 2 or 3rd post just to bash or flame and then never post again. Some of us are perfectly capable of saying what we need to say and then letting it be. So let’s see now who is the “better man.” In the words of the Beatles... “Speaking words of wisdom... let it be.”

[walters]

Ouch, that hurts my eyes.

Edit: but now that I've pushed my way through and finished reading it :up:

[Earl Bonovich]

WolfGhost...

Sorry, you got caught up in something that you shouldn't.
YOU are not the person those comments where directed to.

There are some posts in this thread that have been deleted, (that a few users saw before they where deleted)

They where from a very disgrunteled user, that has violated multiple forum rules (hence the quick bans and deletes of the threads).

To everyone else; based on the criteria we use to check "authenticity" of the posts... Wolfghost by all signs, is not "Chris"

So accept my appologies on behalf of the forum...

PS: Please do me a favor on your next post (or edit this one).
Place a couple line brakes in your message in the future.

Your above post, really looks like one VERY long line, that just wraps in the browser. Some of your good points get lost as it is difficult to read

[wohlfie]

You can attempt to diminish
my story by saying I am someone you have already obviously discounted as a "troublemaker," but you are wrong....

Most folks come here looking for HELP. Would you all dare deceive them by continually bashing those who have legitimate complaints and questions about the R-15? Why do the folks who have honest criticisms of the R-15 and DTV get treated so shabbily here?



No, wolfghost....people weren't speaking of you....there was a different user who had jumped in...a user who has had probably dozens of accounts and is a true troll....his posts have since been purged from this thread and others, making it unclear who we were talking about.

Anyway, I don't think anyone intends to "diminish" your story. If you have been watching the forum, you know that many people have had awful experiences with the R-15. A number of people have posted that they had given up and gone back to Tivo. And some of these people are still around and contribute regularly to the discussions on this forum. At the same time, many of us (thankfully me included) are basically happy, at least with the way thinks are working now after multiple upgrades.

I think the problem is that this is a SUPPORT forum....intended to help solve problems and identify issues, etc. I can't recall a single instance of someone with a 'legitimate question" being treated poorly. Criticism is also usually well received when it leads to productive discussion of issues and potential improvements. Unfortunately, "DTV lies, the R-15 sucks, and Tivo is much better" doesn't fall into that category.

(BTW - I have known three or four DTV installers/retailers personally over the years - ALL have had 'dealer packages' includinging everything possible. How else can they be expected to know all the offerings, etc? )

[harsh]

As a long time Tivo user, I'm glad to see DTV start to bring the R15 closer to what my DVR experience used to be. But the question remains: why the hell didn't they just use Tivo functionality as a starting point, then add the additional features?That's an easy one: they didn't want to get sued by TiVo for patent infringement.

As the lawsuit with Dish has illustrated, it doesn't take much.

[Upstream]

When a new company come out with, say a new tire for a car, they generally start with something round, that stays attached to the wheel of the car while driving. Maybe then they try new materials and new tread patterns to try to make a better tire, but if they want it to be a success, whatever else it does, it pretty much better let the car roll on the road and not fall off.

They don't come out with a square piece of wood held on by scotch tape and say "well, this ISN'T a Firestone or a Goodyear, so don't expect it to work like a Firestone or a Goodyear! Give us a few months and we'll start to round it off."



Let me try a different analogy:

My wife has a Saab. She loves the car. I think it is quirky. The ignition key is on the center console between the front seats instead of on the steering column. My wife likes the fact that her Saab has heated rear seats. I don't like the fact that it only has one cup holder which doesn't hold most cups.

Her Saab is different than my car. She loves the way the Saab is designed. I'm not so crazy about it.

I can complain all day about why her car is different than my car. I can even complain about it's shortcomings (like the cupholder) while ignoring it's benefits (like heated rear seats). But at the end of the day, the differences are more about us than the car. The cup holder is only a problem to me because I like to drink coffee when I drive. The heated seats is only a benefit to her because she likes a warm seat.

But her car and my car both get us from point A to point B. If one of our cars kept stalling out on the highway, moving the ignition key and asking why it wasn't designed like the other car won't help.

If the car stalls, I want it fixed. If the car stalls because of a design or manufacturing defect, I still want it fixed. And once it is fixed and the defect is eliminated, I stop complaining that the cars sold last year had a defect which was fixed. And I really don't care where the ignition key is located.



So back to the R15. It isn't a Tivo, so there is no point in asking why it isn't like Tivo.

As long as the R15 does the basic functions it is supposed to do (DTV list of DVR Plus Functions) (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=900031), then it is what it is. If you want Tivo features, then buy a Tivo. If you want the ignition key on the center console, buy a Saab.

But if the R15 doesn't do what it is supposed to do, I want it fixed.

[walters]

So back to the R15. It isn't a Tivo, so there is no point in asking why it isn't like Tivo.

As long as the R15 does the basic functions it is supposed to do (DTV list of DVR Plus Functions) (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=900031), then it is what it is. If you want Tivo features, then buy a Tivo. If you want the ignition key on the center console, buy a Saab.

But if the R15 doesn't do what it is supposed to do, I want it fixed.

I think it is useful to (rhetorically) ask why they didn't just get TiVo to add whatever features (interactive, VOD, common UI, whatever) to their product instead of trying to get the NDS stuff working. Yes, I'm well aware of the corporate ownership structure, but I still think (IMO of course) that this was a big mistake.

Also, they could eliminate pretty much all of the complaining if they actually would offer a choice. Let people get a DTiVo (one with all TiVo features) and even pay more for the service. Even though I paid lifetime back in 2000, I'd start paying a reasonable monthly fee to have a DTiVo with all the new TiVo stuff.

[Clint Lamor]

I think it is useful to (rhetorically) ask why they didn't just get TiVo to add whatever features (interactive, VOD, common UI, whatever) to their product instead of trying to get the NDS stuff working. Yes, I'm well aware of the corporate ownership structure, but I still think (IMO of course) that this was a big mistake.

Also, they could eliminate pretty much all of the complaining if they actually would offer a choice. Let people get a DTiVo (one with all TiVo features) and even pay more for the service. Even though I paid lifetime back in 2000, I'd start paying a reasonable monthly fee to have a DTiVo with all the new TiVo stuff.

Corporate Ego's on both sides probably caused most of this. :)

I think a choice would be good also and honestly i'm not sure wha DirecTV has to lose but then again I wasn't involved in the negotiaitions and have no idea what went wrong or who got their toes stepped on.

[ApK]

To extend upstream's analogy, it's pefectly reasonable for car buyers to say to Saab "Hey, we like your car, but PLEASE consider moving the ignition key and putting in a bigger cup holder next year!" Or for fans of another brand to say "Hey we like your car, but please consider putting the ignition in the console and including heated seats Saab does next year."

Part of the repetitive arguments here are caused by some of us saying "Fix the stalling" and others are responding to us as if we said "move the ignition."

I like Tivo's guide and suggestions (two patented features) and I don't mind saying I wish my R-15 had features like it, but I totally realize that that is just moving the ignition.

I DEMAND that my R15 DVR perform basic DVR functions with accuracy and stability, like my Tivo does, and complaints about it are completly valid. It's stalling.

[jpl]

I think it is useful to (rhetorically) ask why they didn't just get TiVo to add whatever features (interactive, VOD, common UI, whatever) to their product instead of trying to get the NDS stuff working. Yes, I'm well aware of the corporate ownership structure, but I still think (IMO of course) that this was a big mistake.

Also, they could eliminate pretty much all of the complaining if they actually would offer a choice. Let people get a DTiVo (one with all TiVo features) and even pay more for the service. Even though I paid lifetime back in 2000, I'd start paying a reasonable monthly fee to have a DTiVo with all the new TiVo stuff.


I would guess that there are a couple legitimate reasons for DirecTV to go the path that they did. It could be the fact that TiVo's s/w was so proprietary that integrating all the new stuff that DirecTV wanted to integrate would have been close to impossible without actually buying the company. At that point the company probably made a calculation that it would be better to start from scratch than to try to integrate everything with TiVo. I've seen some of the rumours on this forum about DirecTV possibly buying TiVo, but from a practical expirence those types of buy-outs really don't work as many expect. Small companies, like TiVo, attract a certain type of worker, due to the culture of that company. As a result, they produce a product that really strikes a chord with consumers. A larger company comes along and buys them out, and those same people start to jump ship. The culture changes. The reason they went to work for the smaller company in the first place is because it was a smaller company - which has a very different type of culture than a large company. One example where this type of thing happened was in the 90's when IBM bought out Lotus. Do you see any influence of Lotus in anything that IBM has out there today?

Generally the small company gets absorbed. And because the company being bought out is now part of the larger company, things just don't work the same. In the case of TiVo, they would have become part of the DirecTV culture, and the thing that made TiVo so successful in the DVR market would get altered. More than likely what you would end up with, in such a merger, is a product that would use TiVo properietary technology... but in a package that would look very different (i.e. even though it would use some of the TiVo technology, it wouldn't look or feel like TiVo anymore). This is all just a guess - I used to work for a Wall St. bank (one that underwrote many such M&A transactions) and I saw this happen first-hand quite a bit. The larger company generally is just trying to edge in on the smaller company's market-share.

As for the second comment, you can do that now. Just go get a standard DTV receiver, and a stand-alone TiVo box.

[Upstream]

Also, they could eliminate pretty much all of the complaining if they actually would offer a choice. Let people get a DTiVo (one with all TiVo features) and even pay more for the service. Even though I paid lifetime back in 2000, I'd start paying a reasonable monthly fee to have a DTiVo with all the new TiVo stuff.


Yep. Choice would eliminate a lot of the complaints.

So would fixing the R15 so it does what it is advertised to do.

[walters]

As for the second comment, you can do that now. Just go get a standard DTV receiver, and a stand-alone TiVo box.

And have a single tuner, no Dolby Digital, additional decode/encode, additional STB, and have to deal with IR blasters. No, thanks. I'm still hopeful Comcast won't cripple their combo like DirecTV did. If so, bye bye DirecTV.

[jpl]

And have a single tuner, no Dolby Digital, additional decode/encode, additional STB, and have to deal with IR blasters. No, thanks. I'm still hopeful Comcast won't cripple their combo like DirecTV did. If so, bye bye DirecTV.

All very valid points on the technical limitations with this approach.

As for Comcast, hopefully they've changed. I used to be a customer, and to give you an idea of how bad their service was (if you've never had the experience of dealing with them) when we switched to DirecTV my wife and both wanted to be the ones to call Comcast to cancel the service. I offered to do it, because my wife generally doesn't like to do that kind of thing. But she jumped at the chance and called them before I had the opportunity to! That's how much we thought of them. Since we're right in Comcast's backyard (I live in a Philly suburb) it's hard to miss their influence around here. They have a reputation for being an arrogant bully - pushing smaller companies out of the way, and attempting to block any new players from getting into the market. I don't want to get too far off-topic, and like I said, I hope they changed. But from what I've seen lately, they haven't. Verizon is starting to carry TV service through FIOS in this area, and Comcast's response was to take them to court for infringing on their turf.

They also tend to buy up all the small cable companies that used to exist around here, and drive up the price tremendously. After we got four price increases in a year (yes, four), I'd had enough. Add to that the fact that they own the broadcast rights for two local teams (76ers and Fliers), which they won't share with other broadcasters (even though Comcast Sports Net is carried by DTV's sports package), and they very much exude the attitude "you'll take what we dish out because we're the only real game in town." Like I said, I hope that they changed for the sake of folks deciding to switch to them. Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now :)

[jpl]

BTW, the point of my screed against Comcast isn't to slam the company. My main point is that, given their history, I'm not real optimistic that Comcast will let Tivo be Tivo.

[ad301]

What does the Tivo Wishlist function do that the R15 Find-Autorecord function doesn't?
Be prepared to learn more about wishlists then you probably ever wanted to know. :lol:

:) OK, guys, I'll handle this one!

Tivo wishlists are basically a powerful search engine for your tv. A dvr without their equivalent is analagous to the internet without google-type search engines. You could still use it, but it's a lot harder to find what your interested in, and probably just not as much fun.

D* recognizes, I think, that a search function is important. After all, they did include Find (now Search, I think) in the r15's initial software. Unfortunately, the Find function has some serious deficiencies which prevent it from being nearly as useful as it should be.

So, to answer your question, there are two major things which tivo wishlists do that you cannot do on an r15. 1) You can SAVE individual wishlists, as many as you want, for as long as you want, until you decide to delete them. For comparison, the r15 saves only the 25 most recent Finds. (You could make the Find an auto-record, which would effectively save it, but that introduces other problems, such as taking up slots in the prioritizer, which is limited to 50. Also, at least in early versions of the software, more than just a few auto-records would cause stability problems for the r15. So any more than a couple of auto-records is problematic.) 2) You can search ALL saved wishlists simultaneously. This is a very useful function, although it can take up to several minutes to run a search on a long list of wishlists. For comparison, on an r15, if you wanted to search the 25 most recent Finds, you'd need to do each one individually, and it would be very time consuming and laborious, to the point where you just wouldn't want to bother. If the r15 were to gain just these two additional capabilities, it would improve the box greatly. Unfortunately, I haven't seen or heard ANY indication whatsoever, that D* is even considering this improvement.

So now, finally, we get to your answer. (It probably IS more than you really wanted to know. :) ) What the tivo wishlist function allows you to do, and the r15 does not, is this: you can maintain a large list of topics which interest you, and the tivo will find them for you. It's that simple. As an example, on one of my HD tivos, I currently have over 200 WLs. Most of that list is movies which my wife or I are waiting to show up on the HD channels. Others are, for example, for countries or cities or towns or hotels which we have visitied or plan to visit. Or specific attractions in areas we plan to visit. Bands or artists which we are fans of, or have seen or plan to see. People who interest us for one reason or another. All these add up. Note that none of these WLs are set to autorecord. There is no reason to, because simply by checking all WLs every week or so, you can quickly scan a list of upcoming matches, and schedule the ones you want to watch.

I can't tell you how valuable this capability has proven to be, over the 5 years since we first got tivos. I still have some WLs which go back that far, and are still returning the occasional hit.

Finally, there is another very important use for WLs, if you are a sports fan. There is no way, due to the way D* formats it's guide data, to have a "season pass" for a sports team, on either tivo boxes or r15s. On tivo boxes, WLs do allow you to set an auto-record which will work very well for that purpose. A keyword auto-recording WL set for "Show type>Event>TeamName" will reliably record all of TeamName's games. I've had as many as 7 of these running at the same time, successfully catching each team's games. (And no, I don't actually watch them all. But I do like to be able to see the great plays, walk off homers, overtime goals, etc.) On an r15, this is impossible to do, because the Find function is unreliable about finding programs, schedules programs on channels you don't receive, has that 50 limit on the ToDo list, and gets very flaky when you have more than just a couple of auto-records. Also, it will record partial events rather than wait for an overnight full showing, which is what you'd prefer when you have 4 or 5 games and only 2 tuners.

OK, that should do it. D* could actually achieve most of these capabilities with just a few improvements to the Find function. Let's hope they do!

[Upstream]

ad301 -- Thanks.

Based on your explanation, Although the wishlist function is more powerful, the R15 would be able provide a good portion of its base functionality if the Find-Autorecord feature only recorded channels you get, and if there were no limits on the number of To Do and SL items.

Also, the Wishlist save and batch-find without autorecording is very useful, especially for sports junkies where multiple autorecords will create conflicts.

[ad301]

Upstream, there's no question that having the Find (I guess it's now Search) function only return matches on channels you get is a very important change that's needed. Even better would be custom channel lists which the user could specify. And removing the limits you mention would help the r15 in a lot of ways, assuming that the software could be made to function properly without them.

But the ability to SAVE searches and batch-find without autorecording is really the key. That's what enables a large number of items to search on, without cluttering up the todo list or prioritizer. After all, even if the limits were removed from the prioritizer, you wouldn't want to add 150 movie titles to it if you didn't have to. It would just gum up the works. Note that tivo WLs use zero resources of the machine until you execute a search (that can take some minutes, as I noted above) or make a WL into an ARWL (auto recording wishlist), at which time it enters the season pass manager and can be moved around and have it's options changed just like any other season pass. On my two machines where I maintain large WLs, one HD and one SD, the only ones set to autorecord are the sports ones. All the others show me matches when they pop up in the guide data, and then I decide whether I want to schedule it or not. Believe me, this system works beautifully.

Also, the way the r15 works now, if you just add an auto-record to the prioitizer, it's not very easy to see what's coming up for that particular find. Which brings me to another point I had forgotten to mention. The search terms on the r15 need to be improved, as well. Right now, the keyword search is a very simple search on the specified word or phrase. To equal to capability of the tivo WL, Search needs to search for multiple keywords, so that searches can be made very specific. As an example, and r15 keyword search for "Alamo">movies could return matches on about 15 or 20 different movies. A tivo WL set for keyword "Alamo Wayne 1960">movies would return one match and one match only.

Sorry, I got carried away again. :)

[Bista-Buster]

So, to answer your question, there are two major things which tivo wishlists do that you cannot do on an r15. 1) You can SAVE individual wishlists, as many as you want, for as long as you want, until you decide to delete them. For comparison, the r15 saves only the 25 most recent Finds. (You could make the Find an auto-record, which would effectively save it, but that introduces other problems, such as taking up slots in the prioritizer, which is limited to 50.

I guess that's what I dislike the most. Who's the itiot who came up with this concept? I feel DirecTV is controlling my TV watching.

Now, now sonny. You can only have 10 shows recorded at a time. DirecTV is watching you!:nono2: Sometimes I feel these are the locks and limits that I can't change.

If anything, fix this and the R-15 will be a whole lot better.

[AnonomissX]

Wolfghost, somewhere in that big rambling hulk of a paragraph, you stated:

"But, being a trained and published investigative journalist and former newspaper Chief Editor, I can PROMISE you, I KNOW, full well, that truth is an absolute defense and therefore, I rest most comfortably on my defense. "

You were a newspaper Cheif Editor??? For shame, you should know better then to leave out paragraph breaks!

Your homework assignment is to get back into and edit that post, and put in proper PARAGRAPHS! It is very hard to read!

[ApK]

...and you may not have noticed, but journalists have lost the right to claim to be champions of the truth in recent years (steady downward slide from Geraldo Rivera and Maury Povitch to Jayson Blair and his generation) so you might not want to play up that aspect!

[carl6]

...and former newspaper Chief Editor, ...

Well, at least we have some indication as to why "former" is the operative word here:D

Carl

[walters]

Literacy seems to be on the decline everywhere. Just this morning in my local paper they used an apostrophe to pluralize a word.

[Upstream]

Literacy seems to be on the decline everywhere.

People used to read books. Now we complain because our DVR's are limited to recording 25-50 hours of tv per week.

:slowgrin:

[walters]

People used to read books. Now we complain because our DVR's are limited to recording 25-50 hours of tv per week.

:slowgrin:

I hope you did that just to mess with me. :)

[ApK]

My large local paper recently quoted someone as saying "Their behavior was unexceptable."

Is unexceptable even a word?

[walters]

No, but it produces 62,400 hits on Google. And nine other posts here.

[qwerty]

I think it means "Yalls can't be havin' no ceptions to the rule!". Yalls being the contraction of you-all-is.

[Upstream]

I hope you did that just to mess with me. :)


Uhh, yeah. Sure.


DVRs DVR's ??


Mind your ps and q's ??

[Clint Lamor]

Uhh, yeah. Sure.


DVRs DVR's ??


Mind your ps and q's ??

If it's linux wouldn't that be ps and ls? :)

Clint <-- Been cleaning up from a hacker on a Linux server for 48 hours getting loopy. :lol:

[cabanaboy1977]

No, but it produces 62,400 hits on Google. And nine other posts here.

That's just one step closer to being in Webster's :D

[ApK]

That's just one step closer to being in Webster's :D

Yup. Like "yatch."

Quick off topic rant:

English is a living language that changes with the people who speak it.

When those changes serve to make the language more expressive, or more clear, or more usefull or when they add new concepts, they are good.

When those changes are due to nothing more than ignorance and laziness and serve to only to make the language less clear, and more ambiguous, they are bad.

Bad bad bad.

I'm done now.

[SamRoza]

usefull ????

;)

[ApK]

usefull ????

;)

Sorry, I meant usefulll.

[rowpunk]

I agree with you, except for the auto jumpback. With the R-15, I have a choice, either I press jumpback a couple of times to come out of FF or I press play. There are some cases where I want the video to resume exactly where I press play.

I would agree... IF the audio resumed at the same time as the video

[rowpunk]

Lively...

Let me just state again that I really want to like the R15. Having been a long time Tivo user, I'm just missing some of the old Tivo functions. A few of these are being addressed in the next software upgrade (continuing to buffer a live channel while watching something from MyVOD, for instance - although I still hold out hope for the ability to switch between tuners, and have both tuners buffer live programming). And I wish that some of the interfaces were changed (click straight to guide and not the filter list, put To-Do and Prioritizer in first level of Menu instead of having to dig down two levels into Scheduler, make the To-Do and Prioritizer windows larger, faster Prioritizer reorganization).

That said, it is a FINE dvr, and does have several features and functions that are improvements over the Tivo. I don't think the changes I hope for are anything that would put DTV into any legal trouble with Tivo, and I don't think it's wrong for all of us who used Tivo to wish for improvements/changes in the R15... The R15 is in my AV rack to stay, and I know will grow on me as it evolves.

[Wolffpack]

That said, it is a FINE dvr,
Respectfully I must disagree with that statement. IMO a FINE DVR would record what it's told to record and if it cannot, would provide a history/log of why it did not. Currently, even with 10C8, the R15 does not meet those standards. Bells and whistles are fine and good, but that's after the basics.

[rowpunk]

The R15 is in my AV rack to stay, and I know will grow on me as it evolves.

So I just happened upon this bookmark in my browser, not realizing I still had it. Interesting to look back at the discussion from a year ago about my R15 woes. And so I thought it appropriate to update....

The R15 is indeed still in my home. However, it's been moved to a TV that we don't use much, and has been replaced by a brand new R10 that a local electronics store happened to have sitting on a shelf in their warehouse.

You see, shortly after my post and despite a couple of software upgrades, the R15 bugs just increased... menu freezes, programs disappearing from the To Do list and from my Season Pass list (ah yes, I'm back to my Tivo lingo), and on a couple of occasions recorded shows just vanishing.

Then, one afternoon, as I sat down to watch something, the menu froze. I couldn't get it to clear/update, so I hit the reset button. What followed was a series of reboots. Oh, I unplugged, let it sit, plugged back in, checked all the cables, checked the card, etc. But it just kept rebooting and rebooting.

So I called DTV, and someone (who I'm sure was not speaking to me from anywhere inside the USA) walked me through all the remedial steps that I'd already taken. They then put me on with someone in 'upper level' tech support. Who promptly disconnected the call. After calling back and convincing the 1st level support person to just kick me up to upper level, I was informed that the only solution would be to wipe the hard drive on the unit.

Needless to say, having to wipe all 11 episodes of Planet Earth and several of my wife's favorite shows from the hard drive, was the final straw. So I wiped it, unhooked it, and started calling around, eventually lucking out on the R10.

Those of you who have the R15 and like it, good on ya. But for me, I'll stick with my Tivo box for the every day DVR. Much in the same way that I use my Mac for everyday computing, and let my bug infested Windows box sit quietly in the other room.

[desslock]

What does the Tivo Wishlist function do that the R15 Find-Autorecord function doesn't?

The TiVO Wish list will record the programs it finds (if you set it to) that matches your search criteria.

Th R15 Find-Autorecord will not record the shows, no matter how much it promises to. That's IF it ever finds the programs to begin with. And that is a BIG IF.

[desslock]

So I just happened upon this bookmark in my browser, not realizing I still had it. Interesting to look back at the discussion from a year ago about my R15 woes. And so I thought it appropriate to update....

The R15 is indeed still in my home. However, it's been moved to a TV that we don't use much, and has been replaced by a brand new R10 that a local electronics store happened to have sitting on a shelf in their warehouse.

You see, shortly after my post and despite a couple of software upgrades, the R15 bugs just increased... menu freezes, programs disappearing from the To Do list and from my Season Pass list (ah yes, I'm back to my Tivo lingo), and on a couple of occasions recorded shows just vanishing.

Then, one afternoon, as I sat down to watch something, the menu froze. I couldn't get it to clear/update, so I hit the reset button. What followed was a series of reboots. Oh, I unplugged, let it sit, plugged back in, checked all the cables, checked the card, etc. But it just kept rebooting and rebooting.

So I called DTV, and someone (who I'm sure was not speaking to me from anywhere inside the USA) walked me through all the remedial steps that I'd already taken. They then put me on with someone in 'upper level' tech support. Who promptly disconnected the call. After calling back and convincing the 1st level support person to just kick me up to upper level, I was informed that the only solution would be to wipe the hard drive on the unit.

Needless to say, having to wipe all 11 episodes of Planet Earth and several of my wife's favorite shows from the hard drive, was the final straw. So I wiped it, unhooked it, and started calling around, eventually lucking out on the R10.

Those of you who have the R15 and like it, good on ya. But for me, I'll stick with my Tivo box for the every day DVR. Much in the same way that I use my Mac for everyday computing, and let my bug infested Windows box sit quietly in the other room.


I'm right there with you. I was conned in the "Free Upgrade" thing too. The R15-500 exhibited maby of the same issues you mentioned. Luckily mine seems to have been more stable than most, having none fo the continuous reboot issues. But the last straw was the fact it was incapable of finding and recording TV shows. I ordered a big-ass hard drive from weaknees.com, put in my old Samsung TiVo box and put the R15 in the bedroom where it can't do much harm. All totaled, The R15, from installation to bedroom relegation, took 49 days.

Long Live TiVO!

[ApK]

As long as this thread is resurrected, I thought I jump in and say "hi!"
To update, my R15 is still sitting happily unplugged on a closet shelf, giving me no trouble at all.
One of my Tivos hung last week (A bad TV week it was: my 32inch Hitachi blew out, and I had to get if fixed rather than upgrading to a new HDTV). I think that makes twice in the year I've had it that I've had to reboot the DTivo. The R15, used to hang just about everytime I tried to use various features, like searching the guide.

Yes, I can clearly see how those people who defended the R15 by saying "well, Tivo isn't perfect, either" could think one or two lockups a years vs. lockups nearly everytime it's used are comparable cases. :rolleyes:

[wismile]

I own three DirecTIVO's and an HR20...I am interested in getting an R15 (mostly for the RF remote). I know people on both sides love their DVR. What I'm most interested in is the performance of the R15. I like it's features...but do they work 99.9% of the time? Nothing is perfect, but I have had very few issues with my TIVO units. The HR20 was a nightmare at first...but I think it's an upgrade or two from being very reliable. I know first hand how bad the R15 was when they first came out. Have they improved as much as the HR20?

[jwd45244]

Is the R15 a perfect box? No. It is much better than it used to be. This is especially true if you keep the software current and participate in the process. If you have issues with DTV you can and should take it up with them.

If you don't like the DVRs that DTV provides, you are perfectly free to use Tivo or go to Dish or to cable or some other. No one is holding you hostage.

I know that some are concerned about the two-year commitment with DTV. I know at least one cable operator that will pay that for you if you switch.

[carl6]

I own three DirecTIVO's and an HR20...I am interested in getting an R15 (mostly for the RF remote). I know people on both sides love their DVR. What I'm most interested in is the performance of the R15. I like it's features...but do they work 99.9% of the time? Nothing is perfect, but I have had very few issues with my TIVO units. The HR20 was a nightmare at first...but I think it's an upgrade or two from being very reliable. I know first hand how bad the R15 was when they first came out. Have they improved as much as the HR20?

A hard question to answer - do they work 99.9% of the time.

I have an R15 that I got in November 2005 when they first came out. I did have some problems with it early on, but it has been very stable and reliable for quite a while. Mine I would rate at 99%, I can't think of the last time it did not record something I had scheduled.

However, because DirecTV still has the "channels I receive" function disabled, neither the R15 nor the HR20 will properly do autorecords based on searches. Also, the R15 has not come as far as the HR20 has, but it is starting to catch up. The most recent CE versions of software appear to be pretty solid, although I have seen some reports of problems after getting the software upgrade.

It sounds like you have, or had, an R15. If it is still sitting in the closet someplace deactivated, I would certainly re-activate it and try it out. If you no longer have it, then I would probably go for an R15 if I could get it at no added cost. That way you really have no investment to lose if it doesn't work the way you want.

Carl

[wismile]

Thanks Carl...that's exactly the information I was looking for. I think I will give it a try. The cost is only $19 for shipping...I was balking at the additional two year commitment.

My bad experience was while helping a friend. I finally talked him into dumping cable and getting DirecTV with TIVO. He signed up just as they stopped shipping TIVO units. The R15 (as you know) was awful. I spent hours on the phone trying to help get him up and running. In the end they finally gave him enough credits to go purchase the last couple TIVO units from our local Walmart. To make matters worse they never sent a pick-up for all the R15 units they kept sending and billed him well over a thousand dollars for not returning them. He is currently a very happy customer.

[carl6]

If you are currently on any committment, the 2 year committment replaces, does not add on to, it. Say you currently have one year of remaining committment and you get an R15 or anything HD. You now have a two year committment from now, not a two year extension. In the case of this example, it would be a one year extension.

If you expect that you will stay with DirecTV anyway, it shouldn't matter. If you are exploring other options, then the two years could well be an issue for you.

While I personally don't care for service committments, it's getting harder to avoid them. I currently have a lock in with an ISP, with a cell phone company, and with DirecTV. In all 3 cases, I considered the options, and decided I was prepared to pay the cancellation fee if I disconnected early (which I did not expect to do, and have not done).

Carl

[Supramom2000]

Hi everyone, just thought I would also throw in my perspective and experience. I was with "E" for years. Had no problems with my DVR through them, and in truth it was more user friendly and had much quicker response times too. My problem with them was their customer service, which is also not in the USA.

They lied to me about a movie package that had been added to our line-up (stating a specific date and time that someone from my house had called to order it). No-one from my house ordered it and eventually they admitted there was no such call. When I told them that I had called three days earlier to cancel it and find out more about it, they said I did not call. I told them their recording while on hold says every call is recorded for customer service and they better find that call. They offered me $30 credit for 4 months of the movie package. I told them that was not acceptible and asked for the manager (I was already up to 2nd level - still not in USA). I was told I was as high as they could send me to.

My husband called and cancelled as soon as I told him what happened and lo and behold he got an English speaker in the US when cancellation came up. She offered 1 year free!! He told her if something along those lines had been offered to me, we'd still be customers.

Got 2 R-15's and did not like the interface, response times, bad FF and Rew, but it did record everything I ever told it to. Had no freezes, spontaneous re-boots, etc.

After all the CE's, I now I love my R-15's. Still liked "E's" interface better and their guide is WAY better, but my point is all the customer services "suck" now that they have been outsourced. We have to settle on whichever company treats you the best and that can change at any moment.

And the willingness of "D" to continually try to update and add new features at the request of users is something I think they should be very proud of. And people like Earl and Carl have been a HUGE help to a novice like me.

(Note my paragraph breaks :)?

[bearymore]

My R-15 also works perfectly -- gathering dust in the closet. Until they fix a few things, it will stay there. Fix what?

Autorecord so that it records only from channels you receive

Make trickplay work the way it is supposed to,

Remove the limit on the number of SL's,

Make the software reliable enough so reboots aren't needed and, if they are, do not erase the guide data and the concomitant SLs.