Any way to not pay for HD with VIP622?

[lbeck]

It may sound crazy but I just upgraded to the VIP622 even though my TV1 cannot receive HD programming. I was aware from the outset that I would have the $6/month HD fee and would receive HD programming. The reason that I took the HD route is that at some point I likely will buy a HD TV for TV1 and didn't want to hassle with changing receivers again. Also, I do have HD on my TV2, but it is located at a different place from the 622 and I don't want to move the HDTV or the receiver.

Even though I've only paid one month of HD service so far, I'm beginning to resent paying for something that I can't use. Has this been discussed here or has anyone been able to talk Dish out of the monthly fee (and of course have them remove the HD channels)?

[Jim5506]

If you have a leased 622 you are locked into an 18 month programming committment to subscribe to at least the HD Bronze package.

If you purchased your 622 ($450+) you are not obligated to subscribe to HD programming.

Why not move the receiver to the HDTV?

[HD_Wayne]

Check what you signed. If you own the receiver then you can have them disable the HD reception and the $6.00 per month HD enabling fee will not apply. If you are in a contract for a term then you are most likely required to subscribe to at least the Bronze pkg so the $6.00 hd enabling fee is waved. The $6.00 lease fee is only charged for additional receivers not the primary or 1st receiver. So if you only have one receiver then the $6.00 lease fee is not charged.
One nice thing about the HD receivers is that even though you may not have an HD tv you can still watch the HD program channels on your standard definition tv because the receiver converts the HD content to SD.

Wayne

[CABill]

I was aware from the outset that I would have the $6/month HD fee and would receive HD programming.
You have that wrong. The $6/month HD fee would be charged if you DIDN'T subscribe to HD Programming. That $6/month HD fee is waived when you do subscribe to one of the "new" metalic packages.

It isn't likely that you'd be able to "talk DISH out of any monthly fee". You can call a CSR to ask about switching from HD Bronze to AT60 or some AT equivalent to the metalic package you have now. That will lower your bill by $20 but then add back $6 for the HD fee.

I only recall posts from two users here that leased a 622 but didn't subscribe to a metalic package (and hence, pay the $6 HD fee). DoyleS was one, but it is possible he now subscribes to a metalic package (locals in HD became available). Others have purchased their 622 but they still have to pay the $6/month HD fee if they don't subscribe to a metalic package.

Do you have a copy of the 18 month DIU promotion agreement? You should find that it has no requirement for HD programming and just says
Cancellation Fee. You agree to purchase DishFAMILY, America’s Top 60, DishLATINO, or Great Wall TV Package as your minimum subscription
level for eighteen (18) months from the date of installation under this Agreement (“Initial Term”). If after installation, but before the end of the
Initial Term, you elect to terminate this Agreement or downgrade your programming below the required minimum programming package of
DishFAMILY, America’s Top 60, DishLATINO, or Great Wall TV Package, or your service is disconnected for any reason, and all programming and
other fees and charges for the Initial Term have not been paid in full as of such termination, downgrade, or disconnection, you agree to pay, and
we will automatically charge, a cancellation fee equal to $13.33 multiplied by the number of months remaining in the Initial Term to your DISH
Network account or your Credit Card as defined below, at our option.

Why not just call a DISH CSR and say you want to change for HD-xxx to AT-yyy and ask how much that will cost each month? The $6/month HD fee would be added and the $6/month lease would be unchanged. You wouldn't be able to watch any of the HD channels (obviously).

[CABill]

The $6.00 lease fee is only charged for additional receivers not the primary or 1st receiver. So if you only have one receiver then the $6.00 lease fee is not charged.
That isn't correct for a 622 obtained as an existing customer upgrade (the DISH'n It Up promotion). That would be true of a 622 obtained by a new subscriber. A DIU 622 does get charged the $6 lease fee as a primary or only receiver on the account.

[Stewart Vernon]

It may sound crazy but I just upgraded to the VIP622 even though my TV1 cannot receive HD programming. I was aware from the outset that I would have the $6/month HD fee and would receive HD programming. The reason that I took the HD route is that at some point I likely will buy a HD TV for TV1 and didn't want to hassle with changing receivers again. Also, I do have HD on my TV2, but it is located at a different place from the 622 and I don't want to move the HDTV or the receiver.

Even though I've only paid one month of HD service so far, I'm beginning to resent paying for something that I can't use. Has this been discussed here or has anyone been able to talk Dish out of the monthly fee (and of course have them remove the HD channels)?

How are you paying for something you can't use?

You say you knew you wouldn't be connecting the 622 to an HDTV for the forseeable future, but wanted to go ahead and get it now anyway. Also, if you are subscribing to one of the Metal HD packs, then you can still watch all those channels (albeit in downconverted SD form) on your non-HDTV... so I'm curious as to just what you are paying for that you are not getting? Especially when it sounds like you knowingly made this decision to get an HD receiver for a non-HDTV from the start. If you are "resenting" anything... that should be directed at you, not Dish, for the conscious decision you made, no?

[lbeck]

More interest here than I anticipated. I appreciate the responses. First, I agree with HDMe that I'm *not* paying for something that I'm not getting. I do get the HD capability that I'm paying for, and I was aware of that when I upgraded. I also was aware that I could have ordered the SD DVR and wouldn't need to worry with HD decisions. So I wasn't deceived or surprised with the extra fees associated with the 622.

The situation that brought al this on is that I owned outright (not leased) a JVC DVHS receiver that worked fine but my LNB went bad. I called out a technician who said that the current LNBs don't work with my "legacy" receiver. He had several on the truck. He could order a LNB that would work with my Dish 500, but I saw this as an opportunity to justify an upgrade to a DVR that I had been wanting anyway -- I just found it difficult to replace a perfectly functioning system until the LNB problem.

When I looked into my options, I of course wanted the latest and greatest (as when I got my DVHS). I considered purchasing one outright but the best internet price I could find was around $500, so the $6/mo lease fee sounded like a better deal, even though I hate monthly charges. But that buys about 7 years of use. The HD decision was based on the fact that I have one HDTV as TV2 (later on this) and the TV1 that I would use is a Philips 55 inch PTV that is "digital ready." When I purchased it about 5 years ago I interpreted "digital" to mean "HD" and I think the deception may have been intentional since the promotional material said that the digital circuitry was designed to accept current and anticipated future technology changes. I learned after contacting a Philips technician that the TV cannot be converted to HDTV. Another consideration, though, is that I recently had a $500 repair bill on the TV and I've made a conscious decision that the next time it goes out I'll replace rather than repair -- of course with HD.

So after balking at what I thought was a mandatory $6/month "HD fee," which I apparently misunderstood from the CSR, I decided to get the 622 rather than the SD DVR. It was only after getting my first bill that I began to feel the pain of all the additional fees for increased programming, receiver lease, DVR fee, and a new $6/month maintenance agreement. The maintenance agreement came about when the LNB went out and the CSR explained that they could sent a technician out for $100 or I could opt for the maintenance agreement and it would cover this preexisting condition. Again, the arithmetic made it difficult not to choose the monthly fee.

So... all of these decisions were made by a (usually) responsible adult (me) based on information that I understood at the time. But the bottom line still is that my Dish monthly fee about doubled. It's still unclear exactly how much the monthly charges will be since I've only received the first bill and if any of you have made recent programming changes you know that they charge a prorated amount based on days of service for the new versus the old programming and charge for the new programming for the upcoming month. But the programming plus the $199 upgrade fee plus all of the aforementioned monthly fees (lease, DVR, service call, maintenance contract, HD?,) made my first bill a formidable amount.

The euphoria of my new toy compensates for the additional cost at present, but I’m still going to try to lessen my monthly charges to the extent that I can, which was the reason for initiating this thread. I’ve found this forum to be very useful and figured that I may get some feedback from someone in a similar situation (paying for HD but not watching HD) that has talked Dish out of the charges. The most significant positive information that I have learned is that there is no $6/ month fee, and that it apparently is figured in with the metallic programming charges. I didn’t know that and it is of course good news. It does, on the other hand, make me reevaluate my decision to lease rather than to buy since it changes a major variable in the equation (only leasers are required to buy a metallic package). If I were able to call all of the shots I would opt to stay with my previous SD programming package until I have a situation where I’m actually watching HDTV. Who knows, I may have the misfortune of a perfectly functioning (albeit SD) PTV for years.

As for my reasons for not making the HDTV that I do own my TV1, they would be obvious if you lived in my house. My “theater room” has pretty good surround sound with subwoofer, a DVD player/recorder and such hooked up with the aforementioned 55” PTV (SD and TV1). All of my components are in a nice looking cabinet that actually houses the PTV and covers an entire wall. The stereo system components are there and I have my 622 hooked up with optical cables and it’s working great. The HDTV is a 27” Samsung that is in the upstairs LR, about 50 ft from the PTV as the crow flies and >100 ft of cable snaked through walls, floors, and ceilings to use it as TV2. I hooked into it temporarily as TV1 just to confirm HDTV, but there is quite a loss of viewing satisfaction without the sound system that I’ve become accustomed to for our primary TV viewing.

So there you have it. I do have some good personal reasons for keeping my TV viewing scenario as-is, and some good reasons for not wanting to pay for HD programming at the present. I may at some point try to talk a CSR into switching me to the SD package that I was satisfied with prior to the 622. I think that I do have some temporal obligation that is part of everything else that I agreed to, but possibly after my time is up I can opt down on the programming package. I am aware of the $10/month X 10 months programming rebate that I’m eligible for, and that reduces the cost factor.

I appreciate the interest and requests for clarification.

[Mike D-CO5]

You could cut your fees in a few ways.

1). You could drop the warrenty and only add it when you need it- that is 5.99 savings a month.
2) As far the enabeling fee, how about subbing to one of the hd metallic packs and you lose the 6.00 enabeling fee.
3). If you pick the paltinum pack you get the most channels in hd and sd and you escape all dvr fees- 5.98 fee per dvr.

That is 17.97 you save right there and guess what? The platinum pack has hd for only 15.00 - a 5.00 discount. So for the price of the fees you are paying you could get all of the 29 hd channels Dish has and your hd locals -if availiable. Platinum pack with locals - All for the price of 104.99 a month. The best deal with Dish with the most channels and services for the less amount of fees.

[lbeck]

You could cut your fees in a few ways.

1). You could drop the warrenty and only add it when you need it- that is 5.99 savings a month.
2) As far the enabeling fee, how about subbing to one of the hd metallic packs and you lose the 6.00 enabeling fee.
3). If you pick the paltinum pack you get the most channels in hd and sd and you escape all dvr fees- 5.98 fee per dvr.

That is 17.97 you save right there and guess what? The platinum pack has hd for only 15.00 - a 5.00 discount. So for the price of the fees you are paying you could get all of the 29 hd channels Dish has and your hd locals -if availiable. Platinum pack with locals - All for the price of 104.99 a month. The best deal with Dish with the most channels and services for the less amount of fees.Thanks. I am considering dropping the maintenance contract after a couple of months. This was suggested elsewhere (when I was considering options for repairing/replacing my LNB) and is a good idea.

I've just learned on this thread that the $6 HD enabling fee may not apply since I currently have a metallic pack.

I agree that platinum seems like a good deal considering some of the waived fees, but I'm currently silver (was America's Top 180) and can't justify the extra channels based on my current viewing habits. Top 180 and Silver cover practically all of the shows I watch (mostly sports and non-fiction) and I rent or do PPV for movies that I want to see when I want to see them. The additional channels in HD won't entice me until I get HD on my TV1.

All good ideas, though.

[HD_Wayne]

That isn't correct for a 622 obtained as an existing customer upgrade (the DISH'n It Up promotion). That would be true of a 622 obtained by a new subscriber. A DIU 622 does get charged the $6 lease fee as a primary or only receiver on the account.
Well Dish did it again. In the Q1 2006 Service Fees schedule no mention is made of (the 1st receiver lease fee being included in the package pricing) it appling to certain plans. But if you read the fine print at the bottom of the second page it says that should there be a conflict the applicable business rules shall apply so I looked up the business rules for Dish'n it up and you are right in that the $6.00 lease fee applies to all receivers leased including the first one. Sorry for the error and confusion.

Wayne

[CABill]

You didn't create the confusion - DISH did! I doubt I have access to the Business rules or the Service Fee schedule you mention. I assume they are retailer/installer items. There have been a couple of DPP users that did an upgrade to a 622 via DIU and didn't get stuck with the $6 fee when they replaced a existing $5 receiver. That makes it awkward to state in a single sentence what will happen. The new sub DHA Terms and Conditions at the website clearly lists the 1st receiver being included. The website's Residential Agreement doesn't even mention ViP receivers - it is ancient!