Phone Cord Question

[Banin]

Hi all,
Does anyone know if the RJ11 cord from the ViP622 to the phone jack needs to be 'straight' or 'crossover'? I want to buy a 50ft cord instead of the 25ft one that come with the set so I can string it around the edge of my room, but I can't tell if the included one is crossover or not.

Thanks in advance,
Banin

[DonLandis]

There is no such thing as a crossover phone line. Phone is 2 conductor, usually colored RED and Green, You can have yellow / Black as well and these would be used for a second line.

When connecting 2 wire phone cable to an RJ11 the two in the center are red and green. as line 1

Left to right it is Black Red Green Yellow. Only the center 4 are used. If you have 6 conductor wire you can do it this way-

Blue Black Red Green Yellow White. ( left to right )

Center 2 Line 1
Black Yellow Line 2
Blue White Line 3

This is phone standard

Security systems do it differently- Red Black is Positive Negative power
Yellow Green is signal data. But these don't usually use RJ-11 connectors, just the wire color codes.

[Banin]

That's good to know. I just know that monoprice.com (where I was planning to get my cable) lists phone cable that is 'straight' for voice and 'reverse' for data. I did a google on 'reverse' since I had not heard of such a thing for phone cords, and it turned up as synonymous with 'crossover,' which is a term I recognized from networking.

Long story short, I guess I should just order the 'straight' cable then? They cost the same, maybe they are really the same thing ;P

[Mike Johnson]

There is no such thing as a crossover phone line.
Actually, this is incorrect. You have the color coding correct, but the normal modular phone cord has one end flipped over from the other. Technically, they are all crossover cables. Using a four conductor flat cord, black on one end is on the left, and on the right at the other end. If you take a phone cord and hold the ends next to together with the release tabs down, you can see this for yourself. If you hold the ends head-to-head, you can see why one end is flipped. It allows the color-coding to match through multiple connectors. Also, most flat phone cords have a ridge to mark one side of the cable. If you compare the ends, you will find the ridge is up on one end and down on the other. There are a few applications that use a straight-thru cable, but they are not very common. AT&T Merlin phones did as do some non-telephone applications of RJ11 cables.

Does it really matter? If you have a pre-1980 Touch-Tone phone, it might, but it won't to your ViP-622 DVR. Either cable will work fine. The cable that Dish provides is a "standard" (flipped) cable.

[Bill R]

It you are talking about regular telephone service (POTS, which stand for Plain Old Telephone Service), it does not matter if you use a stright or crossover cable. It the "old days" is was important for two reasons. Touch-tone phones (back when you could only lease them from the phone company) were required to be wired correctly or the touch-tone pad wouldn't work. The second reason was that two-party service (long since gone in the U.S.) required the use of different cables (or wiring the phone circuit differently at the central office). As I said, none of this matters any more since all modern phones "don't care" as to how they are wired back to the c.o. just as long as the tip and ring (red and green) wires are connected.

[Hunter Green]

Way back in the days, AppleTalk networking cables were also crossover RJ11s. Damn, I feel old now.

[Bill R]

Hunter,

If that makes you feel old imagine how I feel. I remember when we had eight (and four) party service, five digit dialing, no direct long distance dialing (you had to dial 211 to get a LD operator who took a few minutes to connect the call). And the cost of an LD call was outragious.

[DonLandis]

ROFLMAO-

Guys- I'm pretty sure Dish's VIP622 doesn't support Hand crank phones either!


The answer to the question is simple hook up your RJ11 plug so that at each end the colors go BRGY left to right. If you choose to view the cable away from the plug on one side and toward the plug on the other side then be sure to flip the wiring order. since it will be right to left when you change your point of view.

NOW, does anyone here need instructions on how to part your hair when looking into a mirror?

OH yes, and if this is still too confusing, why not let a professional installer connect the phone line for you

[Banin]

Thanks for the great replies all, I feel so much more in the know about RJ11 cable. Anyhow, I'll be ordering 50ft of straight cable. I'll post once I get it and hook it up.

Thanks again,
Banin

[tnsprin]

ROFLMAO-

Guys- I'm pretty sure Dish's VIP622 doesn't support Hand crank phones either!


The answer to the question is simple hook up your RJ11 plug so that at each end the colors go BRGY left to right. If you choose to view the cable away from the plug on one side and toward the plug on the other side then be sure to flip the wiring order. since it will be right to left when you change your point of view.

NOW, does anyone here need instructions on how to part your hair when looking into a mirror?

OH yes, and if this is still too confusing, why not let a professional installer connect the phone line for you
Typically the one end of a phone cable has brgy and the other end has ygrb. I.e the cable flips the wiring and so it doesn't matter which end goes in. (If you do your own wire cutting and connecors you are suppoe to setup one crossover in your wires for a standard connections).

[GeneralDisarray]

Typically the one end of a phone cable has brgy and the other end has ygrb. I.e the cable flips the wiring and so it doesn't matter which end goes in. (If you do your own wire cutting and connecors you are suppoe to setup one crossover in your wires for a standard connections).Don't use the term crossover. Because this cable is considered 'straight through' and is different from a crossover. To see if the cable is correct, hold the two ends side-by-side with the cables coming out the bottom and the metal contacts facing you. The colors should be the same from left to right on both plugs. This is a straight through cable. Same for ethernet.

[tnsprin]

Don't use the term crossover. Because this cable is considered 'straight through' and is different from a crossover. To see if the cable is correct, hold the two ends side-by-side with the cables coming out the bottom and the metal contacts facing you. The colors should be the same from left to right on both plugs. This is a straight through cable. Same for ethernet.
Exactly what I am saying it should not be for rj11. I don't know if this is called crossover or straight, but the wires should flip positions as you look at the plugs held in the same position.

I have some old AT&T hard doc on this, but cannot find an online site for you to see.

To see the reason for this, rather then putting the wires side by side, put the wires head to head (as they would be if you put a modular extender on a line). With them in this position the wires all remain in the same position.

[DonLandis]

tnsprin- You are confused. General disarray you have it right. The pic I showed above is correct and comes from a web site on the standards for ALL phone cables with RJ11 plugs (not jacks). Wiring a plug at both ends with BRGY left to right with the latch tab down is correct. Because there is no polarity, it will work if you decide to reverse the colors but to do this with concious decision is an error in thinking. If you have an extention cable (rare to find these anywhere but they do exist,) the female jack is wired the opposite way to keep the polarity straight thru.

[GeneralDisarray]

Exactly what I am saying it should not be for rj11. I don't know if this is called crossover or straight, but the wires should flip positions as you look at the plugs held in the same position.

I have some old AT&T hard doc on this, but cannot find an online site for you to see.

To see the reason for this, rather then putting the wires side by side, put the wires head to head (as they would be if you put a modular extender on a line). With them in this position the wires all remain in the same position.LOL. It confrused the fruck out of me too when I was trying to understand terms. But you are concentrating on the cable and not the delivery.


Wait... Let me digress. I am not a grammar Nazi, but research the use of then and than. That chaps my ass LOL. There are so many brilliant peeps that vug that up LOL. Then refers to a time/timeline. :D

Back to topic. :D The term straight-through refers to where the cable pins out at the connections in the wall.

Forget the cable for now. Concetrate on the wall socket. The industry mis-applied the term.

Picture two rj11 sockets in the wall side by side. Pin 1 is on the left for both of them. Pin 4 is on the righ. for both of them You want to connect pin 1 to pin 1 if you connect them with a cable. That is your desire. And pin 4 to pin 4. Same for 2 to 2 and 3 to 3. In order to do that, you need to use a cable that completely flips the pinout. 100% flip. Get a continuity tester to check it out.

That will make pin 1 on one wall plug meet pin 1 on the other wall plug which is why is termed staight through.


A cross-over cable (when looking at the wall sockets) will make pin 1 on one socket feed to pin 4 on the other.

When it comes to ethernet, a crossover cable doesn't flip completely. Just 2 pinouts are reversed instead of all 6. Only 6 of 8 wires are used in cat5.

[GeneralDisarray]

General disarray you have it right. Can I quote you on this?

Oh, wait. I just did!!! :D

[MacGordon]

Maybe with all this hastle you should consider a wireless setup made by RCA. I got mine at Best Buy, but I've heard they're sold at Radio Shack stores as well.

One end plugs into a 110 outlet and is the input for the phone calble. The other also plugs into 110 and becomes the new output. There are two models, one just for phone, and the other for both phone and information transmission (ie fax, dialup internet, or even a dish receiver). Pretty easy setup.

I know some hate them and others love them. Mine works well and I don't have another cable/cord to mess with. They are a tad expensive so check around the net for a good deal if you decide to go that route.

Good luck.

[Banin]

Hey again all, just wanted to let everyone know I got my 'straight' 50ft cable and hooked it up and it works great. No more phone cord cutting across the middle of the living room for me :lol:

Thanks again for all the help.

-Banin

[DonLandis]

MacGordon-

Have you have any problems with these devices working across a power strip or other surge protection device? I have lots of X-10 controls here that dump RF onto the power line and these protectors all filter the X-10 RF signals. I was always curious how the phone devices work in this respect.

[Bill R]

I am not Mac but I do use quite a few X-10 devices and you do have to be aware of where you install them. Better power protectors (or UPSes) do attenuate the X-10 device to a point where the X-10 device is unreliable (works sometime). Cheap (<$10) power strips aren't a problem because they really don't do much filtering. You don't want to use the X-10 alarm systems because they false trigger too often. For lighting and other devices they are fine.

At one time I was using one of those wireless phone extenders and I had no problem until I upgraded to a 5.8 GHz system. I just installed a new (non wireless) jack and that fixed that problem.

[tnsprin]

tnsprin- You are confused. General disarray you have it right. The pic I showed above is correct and comes from a web site on the standards for ALL phone cables with RJ11 plugs (not jacks). Wiring a plug at both ends with BRGY left to right with the latch tab down is correct. Because there is no polarity, it will work if you decide to reverse the colors but to do this with concious decision is an error in thinking. If you have an extention cable (rare to find these anywhere but they do exist,) the female jack is wired the opposite way to keep the polarity straight thru.
Your picture shows what I said. The wires are reversed if side by side and the same if head to head or back to back(as you showed it). This is typical of all Telco wiring. saying its Brgy is wrong as if you reverse the wire its ygrb (there is no order to the which end of the wire is which).

The opposite is true of typical network wire. In that case the wire is typically the same left to right. Still don't know which is crossover and which is straight,

[DonLandis]

I do have a box full of old phone cables from electronics I've collected over the years and all are wired BRGY which is the accepted standard. I did find one cable in that box that is 2 conductor round with RJ11's. It was RG at one end and GR at the other end. BUT, this cable was clearly marked at each end on what it connects to. It is not a phone cable but a special data or maybe a DC power supply cable for an old consumer Betamax edit controller from years ago!
I'm sure many of those phone cables in the box were from Dish and DirecTV receivers. All were BRGY and had the wire seam on the tab or hook side! I still think we are seeing the same thing but you are looking at it with a flipped perspective. That is why I posted the standard as a picture so others won't be confused.

[tnsprin]

I do have a box full of old phone cables from electronics I've collected over the years and all are wired BRGY which is the accepted standard. I did find one cable in that box that is 2 conductor round with RJ11's. It was RG at one end and GR at the other end. BUT, this cable was clearly marked at each end on what it connects to. It is not a phone cable but a special data or maybe a DC power supply cable for an old consumer Betamax edit controller from years ago!
I'm sure many of those phone cables in the box were from Dish and DirecTV receivers. All were BRGY and had the wire seam on the tab or hook side! I still think we are seeing the same thing but you are looking at it with a flipped perspective. That is why I posted the standard as a picture so others won't be confused.

Look at your own picture

By the way the seam and hook on the same side is correct for telephone wire.

[DonLandis]

This has become ridiculous.