HR20 - The Review Discussion Thread

[Earl Bonovich]

This thread is for discussion of the HR20-Review thread.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61862

Stuff not related to the review thread... please open a new one.

Where the Review was attempted to be as objective as possible (with in reason)... this thread is bound to be very subjective......

Earl

[Earl Bonovich]

Okay... two first comments..

1) I can EASILY see myself replacing my R15's for the HR20... even if that TV isn't HD.. It is that good.

2) Picture Quality.... The PQ on this box is as good as the H20's... I don't know if it is the connections or what (I had component on HR10), but the PQ is better then the HR10.

Heck it even made Stargate look good the other night.

[ajwillys]

Great review!!

Did you try the external SATA connection? Does it need a specially formatted drive from Directv?

[Earl Bonovich]

Great review!!

Did you try the external SATA connection? Does it need a specially formatted drive from Directv?

I didn't try it, because I don't have an eSATA device yet.
But from what I was told, it is not active yet...

They talked to me a bit about some of their ideas on how to use it...
And if they go the route they where talking about it....
The eSATA device will be put to pretty good use by most people.

[marcello696]

No ATSC tuners active on day one is a bummer. Even though I'll get the big 4 via Mpeg4 out here is Los Angeles there are some other stations most notably KCET that I watch via OTA that I will not get form D*. Lets hope this gets activated soon as promised.

Great review Earl

[carlsbad_bolt_fan]

Very good review, Earl.

About the network port: Can that be used instead of the phone line to 'phone home' to D*?

[dswallow]

Do any of the menus acknowledge the existence of the ATSC tuners and such options are just disabled, or is it more like the ATSC tuners simply don't exist at all as far as the software version running now is concerned?

[dmilam]

Do you have a screen shot of the saved programs screen?
Just wondering how the interface for the "Now Playing" equivalent looks. Most importantly, does it have folders?

Great review also.

David

[ajwillys]

Earl, you've been Dugg ... by me.
http://digg.com/television/New_Directv_HD_DVR_finally_released

Everyone go digg it and get this to the front page.

[Earl Bonovich]

Very good review, Earl.

About the network port: Can that be used instead of the phone line to 'phone home' to D*?

As far as I know... no reall information is going over the network port.

[Earl Bonovich]

Do any of the menus acknowledge the existence of the ATSC tuners and such options are just disabled, or is it more like the ATSC tuners simply don't exist at all as far as the software version running now is concerned?

Hey Doug...

They are actually on the screens, just greyed out
I'll pull those screen shots tonight

[Earl Bonovich]

Do you have a screen shot of the saved programs screen?
Just wondering how the interface for the "Now Playing" equivalent looks. Most importantly, does it have folders?

Great review also.

David

I can pull the screen... but it is the same as the R15's.
Yes, it has folders.

[ad301]

Earl, are there any changes in the Search function, compared to the r15?

[Herdfan]

IThey talked to me a bit about some of their ideas on how to use it...
And if they go the route they where talking about it....
The eSATA device will be put to pretty good use by most people.
Will sneaker net be available?

ie, the ability to record a show on the eSATA and then take the drive to the bedroom to watch the show?

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, are there any changes in the Search function, compared to the r15?

Right now, it appears to be very similar to that of the R15..
But I didn't put it through "Wollf's" latest test scenerios...

Currently it still only has a 25 limit on "Recent Searchs"

[ThomC]

Thanks for the info Earl, great job.
My one and only gripe seems to be it having only a single live buffer.
Any possibility of there ever being two?
It's a key to my Sunday Football viewing.

[Earl Bonovich]

Will sneaker net be available?

ie, the ability to record a show on the eSATA and then take the drive to the bedroom to watch the show?

I brought that up, but they didn't have an answer.
Hopefully... but time will tell.

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks for the info Earl, great job.
My one and only gripe seems to be it having only a single live buffer.
Any possibility of there ever being two?
It's a key to my Sunday Football viewing.

I will never say never... but....

[RAD]

Thanks for the review.

On the SAT1 connection it also says (FTM) next to it, what does that mean???

[pdawg17]

Thanks for the info Earl, great job.
My one and only gripe seems to be it having only a single live buffer.
Any possibility of there ever being two?
It's a key to my Sunday Football viewing.

I agree...what's so hard about having two live buffers? Why leave that out? I use the two buffers a lot too....

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks for the review.

On the SAT1 connection it also says (FTM) next to it, what does that mean???

Hmm... no idea.. didn't even notice it the first time.

[bryanb]

Hey Earl,

I'm curious how I could have the HR20 record all the games for a particular team. With the HR10, I would use a keyword wishlist with the keyword being the team name and a show type of Event.

Any idea how it would work on the HR20?

b

[HiDefGator]

I agree...what's so hard about having two live buffers? Why leave that out? I use the two buffers a lot too....

Maybe they spent their time making everything else work perfectly... I could live with that trade off for the first release.

[Stuart Sweet]

Earl, great review as usual...

You say the unit has an RF remote? Not IR? That would make my Harmony 880 incompatible. Are you sure?

[Earl Bonovich]

Hey Earl,

I'm curious how I could have the HR20 record all the games for a particular team. With the HR10, I would use a keyword wishlist with the keyword being the team name and a show type of Event.

Any idea how it would work on the HR20?

b

IIRC... it would work similar...
I will try it in the next few days.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, great review as usual...

You say the unit has an RF remote? Not IR? That would make my Harmony 880 incompatible. Are you sure?

It has both...

You have an IR option AND a native RF option.

The RC24 will work in both IR and RF... the default is IR

[generalpatton78]

Great job earl!! I have to say WOW to the ATSC tuners! Even if it is a month or so WOW! I'd go nuts if the S3 ATSC tuners aren't active on day one. I'm in the 80 DMA so ATSC will be importan to me for a long time.

[pdawg17]

Maybe they spent their time making everything else work perfectly... I could live with that trade off for the first release.

I know but Earl hinted above that two buffers may never happen...

[ajwillys]

There's no port for the RF antenna. Is the antenna built into the unit?

[Earl Bonovich]

There's no port for the RF antenna. Is the antenna built into the unit?

Yes... it is an internal RF antenna.

[The_Geyser]

Great job, Earl! I can't wait to get mine.

[sorahl]

Earl, great review! thanks! I can't wait for my basement ot be done so i can start trying to get them to give me one!!

Sorahl

[Jeremy W]

I noticed that when you were flipping through the mini guide, there was a little bit of animation there that is not present on the H20. Are any other parts of the UI animated? I'm a sucker for animation.

[dan8379]

Great review, Earl.....any official word on the swap-out program?

[vtfan99]

Earl,

Great review! Can this unit do simultaneous ouput over the Component and HDMI? I don't remember seeing that in the review (sorry if I've missed it). As we all know, the HR10-250 doesn't...something which was a PITA for the world cup. Hopefully this unit will come through for me.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl,

Great review! Can this unit do simultaneous ouput over the Component and HDMI? I don't remember seeing that in the review (sorry if I've missed it). As we all know, the HR10-250 doesn't...something which was a PITA for the world cup. Hopefully this unit will come through for me.

I undeleted your post... :D (nice to have power)


You are not blind.... I didn't test it.

I tested "Composite" and HDMI... not Component and HDMI.
I'll try it tonight or tomorrow.

[Earl Bonovich]

Great review, Earl.....any official word on the swap-out program?

No, haven't gotten any details about $$$, swapout, availability, ect....

[Earl Bonovich]

I noticed that when you were flipping through the mini guide, there was a little bit of animation there that is not present on the H20. Are any other parts of the UI animated? I'm a sucker for animation.

Most of the "guides" and "grids" are animated.
And when you enter into the full screen menu's, the screen "grows".. doesn't just appear.

[naldoron]

I was able to call customer retention and get them to note on my account that the swap out will be free for me when they are available in my area (Milwaukee). I think she said that had to with how long you have had the HR10-250, but I am not sure on that fact.

[Hilbe]

Is the ethernet port active or do they plan to activate it? I have VoIP and my HR-10's dialing is unreliable at best.

[fullcourt81]

Great review, Earl, or should we call now call you Ol' Blue Eyes!
You really kept a poker face in the last couple of weeks, sitting with a HR20 in your living room and having to endure all the doubting Thomas comments.:lol:

D* doesn't have the HR20 manual in .pdf on their site yet. Maybe you can suggest it?

[Earl Bonovich]

Is the ethernet port active or do they plan to activate it? I have VoIP and my HR-20's dialing is unreliable at best.

Do you mean HR10? or H20?

The ethernet port is "turned on" but is it doing anything... I don't think so at this time.
I have been told that the HR20 (and the R15, D10, D11) are all VoIP compatible.

The HR20 doesn't have to do the one call that HR10 does the "TiVo" call, which is normally what people have problems with when on VoIP
I will know Saturday if the VoIP works (at least in my house), as I just switched to vonage.

[Earl Bonovich]

Great review, Earl, or should we call now call you Ol' Blue Eyes!
You really kept a poker face in the last couple of weeks, sitting with a HR20 in your living room and having to endure all the doubting Thomas comments.:lol:

D* doesn't have the HR20 manual in .pdf on their site yet. Maybe you can suggest it?


I will ask to see if there is an electronic version available.

I had plenty of "tells" this past week or so....

Editted: I asked, and got a quick answer...
An electronic version should be appearing on www.directv.com in the next few weeks.

[mikewolf13]

I know but Earl hinted above that two buffers may never happen...

Earl,

You have hinted very strongly for weeks that we will likely never see dual buffers on R15 or HR20. However it seems many peole take these hints as hope that the 2nd buffers is intended to be activated at some point.

Can you confirm that to your knowledge that D* does not currently have any plans or intentions to activate dual buffers?

And do you have information on the reason why the 2nd buffer will likely not be added, that you can share?

The premise of my belief is when you say "i'd never say Never", it means it probably will never happen you just can't eliminate the possibility.

If my assumption is wrong, please correct.

Thanks

[gglockner]

Like others, many thanks to Earl for the review. Now we know why you're selling your HR10-250. :) You helped calm my nerves that the HR20 would be horribly buggy like the R15. I'm also very glad to hear about the ATSC tuners since I believe OTA will have some channels that are not available on MPEG4, plus the PQ seems higher for OTA ATSC than MPEG4.

I'm not going to be an early adopter but I'll wait to see whether this is as reliable as a genuine TiVo. In the meantime, my HR10-250 works great, and the software update will be appreciated.

[Earl Bonovich]

Dual Buffers....

Ultimately it is in DirecTV's control, hence why I say "Never say Never"
But... I would have to put it higher then 90% that Dual Live Buffers, won't make it to HR20 and R15.

Sadly, I can't share the reasons why.
I agree with some of them, disagree with some of them as well.

As of this moment, I don't know of any plans to add them.
Sorry... but that is just what I know, and my gut fealing on it.

[Capmeister]

Excellent review, Earl! I'd be willing to try this box if it holds up. Question for you about closed captioning, because that's important in my house (my brother is deaf): can you try it and let me know how it looks, maybe even get a capture for me?

[Earl Bonovich]

Excellent review, Earl! I'd be willing to try this box if it holds up. Question for you about closed captioning, because that's important in my house (my brother is deaf): can you try it and let me know how it looks, maybe even get a capture for me?

Sure... I'll give it a shot.

[Halo]

Very good review Earl.

So it looks like it has 256MB of system RAM (I can only see 3-64meg chips but I think there is another not seen in the Pic) and another 64MB of RAM dedicated to the Broadcom video decoder chip.
I wonder if they used the same ST5528 as in the R15. There's a black heat sink on it so there's no way to tell from the pics. I'd guess not because the ST5528 on the R15 handles video decoding also (it's a dual core) while the HR20 has the broadcom chip to do the heavy lifting.

I guess I'm trying to find out how much horsepower this thing has.

Good news about the multiple channel series links. I know that bugs people about the R15. The additional space in the TDL is also a good thing.

I'm glad they didn't go with a single ATSC tuner. If they get enabled soon before 98% of most people get the HR20 then it will be fine.

Most importantly, it looks to have good overall stability right out of the box. Fast responding and reliable trick play features are very important to me, so it's good to hear that in the review.

[Earl Bonovich]

Yah... I was very tempted to pull the black heat sink....
But didn't want to take the risk that it was also "gluded" to what ever chip was below it.

The trick play is very good... it has it's momentary "hiccup" and takes a second to get the audio back, but in general... it is very good.
I reliably use the jump-back button to exit out of 3x (they got rid of the 4x)

[Groundhog45]

Thanks Earl. :D :D :biggthump Great review. Looking forward to getting one. :D

GH

[Earl Bonovich]

I will post one important picture later today...

The BOX for the unit... so all these phoney balloney EBAY auctions can be put to rest...

[Jeremy W]

Thanks for answering my question about animation Earl. I thought of another one though. Does the HR20 fix the problem that some people with the H20 have with the MPEG4 locals, where entering the channel number will take you to the MPEG2 SD version of the channel, even if you've removed it from the guide? That is something that really bugs me about the H20.

Also, how does the HR20 handle the music channels? Can you pause and rewind them?

[twaller]

The fact that the ATSC tuner is not active is disturbing to me. Maybe this suggests that D* does not consider this to be an important feature.

[Hilbe]

Is a phone line required to activate a HR20? Also, I have heard rumors on other sites of users calling and getting a free upgrade today. Anyone do this yet?

[Clint Lamor]

Is a phone line required to activate a HR20? Also, I have heard rumors on other sites of users calling and getting a free upgrade today. Anyone do this yet?

No you don't need a phone line hooked up to get it going. Also it's only available in the L.A. area right now. Not sure when the rest of us can get it.

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks for answering my question about animation Earl. I thought of another one though. Does the HR20 fix the problem that some people with the H20 have with the MPEG4 locals, where entering the channel number will take you to the MPEG2 SD version of the channel, even if you've removed it from the guide? That is something that really bugs me about the H20.

Also, how does the HR20 handle the music channels? Can you pause and rewind them?

I can't answer your first question 100%.
I know when I enter "2" it takes me to my MPEG-4 channel, BUT... my H20 did the same thing. So I can't confirm it 100%

As for the music channels.
I forgot to check... the R15 can do it... but I will try it with the HR20

[Earl Bonovich]

The fact that the ATSC tuner is not active is disturbing to me. Maybe this suggests that D* does not consider this to be an important feature.

I will say it again...

DirecTV is 100% committed to having the ATSC tuners on this unit

It is not that they thought it wasn't an important feature... They simply where not ready to release that particular feature at this moment.

[AstroDad]

Is a phone line required to activate a HR20? Also, I have heard rumors on other sites of users calling and getting a free upgrade today. Anyone do this yet?

I have seen post on other sites of people getting upgraded today, but only in CA.

Earl, thanks for the review.

For those of us not familiar with the R15, could you spell out any big differences between the HR20 and the HR10? Are there things the HR20 can do that the HR10 cannot or vice versa?

[harley3k]

I agree...what's so hard about having two live buffers? Why leave that out? I use the two buffers a lot too....

Agreed... I use the two buffers a lot as well.

So far, except for MPeg4, I see LESS functionality than my HR10.
Oh, and the mix channels, and fake-VOD...w00t!

-h

[sp1dey]

Thanks Earl for posting this. It really has put my fears to rest. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Now if they could only negotaite deals with Tribune and Lin Broadcasting my MPEG4 will be complete.

Two things that got me really excited:

1. The HDD space meter, awesome!

2. The speed of the interface in those videos, the wife and I will really love that.

Thanks again!

Now lets get those other birds up!

[harley3k]

I will say it again...

DirecTV is 100% committed to having the ATSC tuners on this unit

It is not that they thought it wasn't an important feature... They simply where not ready to release that particular feature at this moment.


Okay, so when I call to get my $399 upgrade and commit to another 2 years, I won't have to give back my HR10, since I'll need it to record OTA until they turn on this feature of the HR20.

-h

[Earl Bonovich]

I have seen post on other sites of people getting upgraded today, but only in CA.

Earl, thanks for the review.

For those of us not familiar with the R15, could you spell out any big differences between the HR20 and the HR10? Are there things the HR20 can do that the HR10 cannot or vice versa?

Ummm... sure... but I think I will need another thread for that... so it doesn't get missed.

[Jeremy W]

I can't answer your first question 100%.
I know when I enter "2" it takes me to my MPEG-4 channel, BUT... my H20 did the same thing. So I can't confirm it 100%
Would it be possible to check with one of your contacts on this? It's a big issue for me.

[henryld]

Agreed... I use the two buffers a lot as well.

So far, except for MPeg4, I see LESS functionality than my HR10.
Oh, and the mix channels, and fake-VOD...w00t!

-h
I tend to agree especially since I get my locals OTA. With 6.3 comming soon (fingers crossed) my HR10-250 should serve me well for at least another year.

H.

[Earl Bonovich]

Would it be possible to check with one of your contacts on this? It's a big issue for me.

I can try... but the bulk of the people I am in contact with, don't have the problem with the H20 (we have talked about it)... I think a lot has to depend simply on how the locals are listed in that area....

I will see what I can do.

[Jeremy W]

I can try... but the bulk of the people I am in contact with, don't have the problem with the H20 (we have talked about it)... I think a lot has to depend simply on how the locals are listed in that area....

I will see what I can do.
Thanks! If it's fixed, I'll probably get the HR20 on the first day it's available. If it's not... I'll probably still get it on the first day it's available. But I will be a little sad. :(

[redmption]

I get local HD channels via sattelite since I live in the Dallas, TX area. Does getting this DVR mean I wont get those locals anymore, or is the disabled OTA channels not affect me?

[jdspencer]

So far the review looks good to me. However, it will be a long time before I can even use one (DMA=156). And, DirecTV probably won't do a free swap out with my owned HR10-250 until my DMA actually has locals.

Would DirecTV even allow subscribers get this unit if they don't yet have their locals?

As to the lack of dual buffers while watching football. Why not just start recording one of the games, or both, and then play them back.

[Jeremy W]

I get local HD channels via sattelite since I live in the Dallas, TX area. Does getting this DVR mean I wont get those locals anymore, or is the disabled OTA channels not affect me?
The disabled OTA ATSC tuner means that you will not be able to pull in the station's local broadcast. The HD channels you receive over the satellite will not be affected at all.

[Earl Bonovich]

I get local HD channels via sattelite since I live in the Dallas, TX area. Does getting this DVR mean I wont get those locals anymore, or is the disabled OTA channels not affect me?

It won't affect you... you will still get your locals via SAT.

[harley3k]

Earl - THANK YOU for this review. It is most helpful.
My negative comments are obviously not directed towards you.

But let me just reiterate...

Congratulations DIRECTV - this is absolutely COMCASTIC!
Your HD-DVR is now just as bad as my local cable provider's.

I hope breaking the relationship with Tivo was worth the whole $1 per month you were paying them so that you could develop your own DVR and be so far behind where you once were.

I will look forward to NOT puting an even bigger dish on my roof only to get 3 of my local HD Channels, and NOT paying $399 to upgrade to a 'leased' box, and NOT signing a 2 year committment.

Now where's that 6.3 upgrade for my HR10? Was that a tease, or should I call FIOS today?

-h

[Jeremy W]

Congratulations DIRECTV - this is absolutely COMCASTIC!
Your HD-DVR is now just as bad as my local cable provider's.
The only thing you seem to have a problem with is the lack of dual buffers. Is that really such a huge issue to you? I don't really understand it...

[ebockelman]

Thanks for the review.

On the SAT1 connection it also says (FTM) next to it, what does that mean???

I think that's for the Frequency Translation Module connection, which was mentioned in the Directv investor presentation. Speculation is that this will let you run multiple tuners with one coax cable.

[TMullenJr]

I have to say good job to DBSTalk! The word is out that this is the site to check out for up to date info. As of right now, there are 579 users (500+ guests) checking out this thread.

How does it feel to be the most popular person in the country Earl?

[Chandler Mike]

Dual Buffers....

Ultimately it is in DirecTV's control, hence why I say "Never say Never"
But... I would have to put it higher then 90% that Dual Live Buffers, won't make it to HR20 and R15.

Sadly, I can't share the reasons why.
I agree with some of them, disagree with some of them as well.

As of this moment, I don't know of any plans to add them.
Sorry... but that is just what I know, and my gut fealing on it.


While I guess there may be good reasons and all that, and you can't share them...It truly bites HARD that it will or might not ever have it.

It's a great feature, one it should have...too bad about it not being there.

At least the buffer saves now when you watch something on tape...that's good news to me.

[harley3k]

The only thing you seem to have a problem with is the lack of dual buffers. Is that really such a huge issue to you? I don't really understand it...

This has been at least a year and half in the making, and it has less features than the HR10. But if I want to get any new HD channels (MPEG4), I have to upgrade and pay $399 (unless I compalin to Retention)?

I'm probably being way to critical, but simply - I just don't get it.

How long ago was the HR10 released? Where is the differentiator in their product now? Why would I pay a premium - higher monthly subs, pay for the receivers that I don't own / can't hack, fewer HD channels... D* better hang on to their exclusive rights to the NFL Ticket...

-h

[Earl Bonovich]

I think that's for the Frequency Translation Module connection, which was mentioned in the Directv investor presentation. Speculation is that this will let you run multiple tuners with one coax cable.


AHH!!! DING DING!!
You are correct... I forgot about that...

[AppliedAggression]

Why in the world did they get rid of 4x forward? For the occasions I have to fast forward more than an hour or so into a movie because of the "Do not delete bug" the removal of the 4x speed will make it even more of a pain.

Hope they plan to add jump to ticks at least.

Also Earl, it seems the HR20 provides many improvements over the R15. Do you think the same logic used in this new HD DVR will be applied to the R15, or do you think most of it is just not practical because of the R15's processing power.

[Earl Bonovich]

Why in the world did they get rid of 4x forward? For the occasions I have to fast forward more than an hour or so into a movie because of the "Do not delete bug" the removal of the 4x speed will make it even more of a pain.

Hope they plan to add jump to ticks at least.

Also Earl, it seems the HR20 provides many improvements over the R15. Do you think the same logic used in this new HD DVR will be applied to the R15, or do you think most of it is just not practical because of the R15's processing power.

Me personally... I am glad they got rid of the 4x FF... that worked so sparatically for me....
I do agree, I hope they add the skip to tick in the future.

I do know they want them to get close in functionality... but, time will only tell.

[newsposter]

Thanks for the review. I've only scanned this thread and a few pages of the review itself. You have cemented and justified my purchase earlier this year of my 2nd HDtivo for my existing programs. (yes I need 4 OTA tuners on some nights and do prefer the tivo features)

However the HR20 will be a nice addition to my 2 stacked units once other stations I value go mpeg4. I could never live with only 50 SP WL nor the lack of dual buffers.

however if they have the reordering of SP down to 0 wait time, I will give them kudos for that!

[BrandonH]

It seems to me that the answer to why there aren't dual buffers is a pretty easy one. Once DirecTV activates the Showcases feature on these boxes they want to keep the second tuner free as much as possible to be able to download these Showcases. Having to keep dual buffers would essentially keep both tuners busy at all times and there wouldn't be an available tuner to download the Showcases. You would need a third sat tuner for the Showcases feature to work and have dual buffers available at all times.

[net17]

Earl-

Can you look into the FTM, and if it is active. I would love to get one of these, but I live in an MDU, and only have one coax cable.

[JohnSorTivo]

I would have to put it higher then 90% that Dual Live Buffers, won't make it to HR20 and R15.This came as a surprise to me, as I'm still on multiple HDVR2s, and dual buffers is probably one of the most important features I use every single day. This in and of itself will likely cause me to look elsewhere as I transition to HD.

I'm at a loss to come up with valid reasons why such an option would seemingly intentionally be disabled.

[Herdfan]

DirecTV is 100% committed to having the ATSC tuners on this unit

It is not that they thought it wasn't an important feature... They simply where not ready to release that particular feature at this moment.
It could simply be done to discourage subs in non-MPEG-4 markets from getting this box if it is in short supply.

[AppliedAggression]

Earl, my question really was, in the areas the HR20 is much faster such as moving Series Links in the prioritizer and such, do you think it's much faster because it's a much more powerful box, or does it have improved logic as well?

Obviously if it's improved logic, the R15 will hopefully see some sort of speed increase as well in those areas if they decide to update the logic used in the machine.

Thanks a bunch for taking the time to review this for us.

[AstroDad]

It could simply be done to discourage subs in non-MPEG-4 markets from getting this box if it is in short supply.

Valid point.

Earl, I am also interested in hearing more about this "FTM" This would be awesome for me as I only have one coax in the bedroom and no easy way to add another line.

[Earl Bonovich]

I will see if I can get some more details on the FTM....
I forgot to check to see if the unit had the same internal destacker the R15 had...

[harley3k]

It seems to me that the answer to why there aren't dual buffers is a pretty easy one. Once DirecTV activates the Showcases feature on these boxes they want to keep the second tuner free as much as possible to be able to download these Showcases. Having to keep dual buffers would essentially keep both tuners busy at all times and there wouldn't be an available tuner to download the Showcases. You would need a third sat tuner for the Showcases feature to work and have dual buffers available at all times.

That makes sense... We need that fake-VOD feature.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, my question really was, in the areas the HR20 is much faster such as moving Series Links in the prioritizer and such, do you think it's much faster because it's a much more powerful box, or does it have improved logic as well?

Obviously if it's improved logic, the R15 will hopefully see some sort of speed increase as well in those areas if they decide to update the logic used in the machine.

Thanks a bunch for taking the time to review this for us.

I think it is a combination of updated software, algorithms, but the updated hardware definently helps as well. Some of it will make it to the R15, but I am not sure what the improvements will be like there.

As for the review...your welcome, I am a geek and I enjoy doing this stuff.

[TMullenJr]

As for the review...your welcome, I am a geek and I enjoy doing this stuff.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that you get the new toys at least 2 weeks ahead of anybody else!

[JohnDG]

Great review! A couple of questions:

1) Does the HR20 have to reacquire all the guide data (14 days) on a reboot?
2) Any noise (pops, etc.) when the programming switches from DD to non-DD programming? This would be most noticeable for network DD5.1 programming when it goes to commercial.

jdg

[JohnSorTivo]

It seems to me that the answer to why there aren't dual buffers is a pretty easy one. Once DirecTV activates the Showcases feature on these boxes they want to keep the second tuner free as much as possible to be able to download these Showcases. Having to keep dual buffers would essentially keep both tuners busy at all times and there wouldn't be an available tuner to download the Showcases. You would need a third sat tuner for the Showcases feature to work and have dual buffers available at all times.Huh? Showcases, etc, are downloaded today via the SDD, in the middle of the night. They don't need to occupy a second tuner 100% of the time for that.

The only thing you seem to have a problem with is the lack of dual buffers. Is that really such a huge issue to you? I don't really understand it...Then it would seem you don't come from a unit where you previously had it...

[Earl Bonovich]

Great review! A couple of questions:

1) Does the HR20 have to reacquire all the guide data (14 days) on a reboot?
2) Any noise (pops, etc.) when the programming switches from DD to non-DD programming? This would be most noticeable for network DD5.1 programming when it goes to commercial.

jdg


1) Yes... it works similar to the R15, but does it a lot faster.
Once you restart, you will get "todays" guide information nearly instantly. Then as the unit is on, it will gradually start to repopulate... (you'll have tomorrows in about 15 minutes), ect.... In about 12-16 hours, you will have the full 14 days worth.

If you drop the unit into standby mode (basically telling the unit, no one is there), it will speed up the process... using some of the extra processing power.

It really isn't as bad as it seems... given that I haven't had to reboot the unit. Plug it into a UPS for blackouts, and you woudl probably won't notice that much.

One advanatage I have seen (at least with the R15), is that guide changes make it into the system faster then the TiVo equivilents. I will have to see how this goes with the HR20

2) No, I haven't heard any "poping"... just the annoying feature of some broadcasts, where the commercials are 10X louder then the program. (Which isn't a fault of the HR20)

[Earl Bonovich]

Then it would seem you don't come from a unit where you previously had it...

I do come from a unit that had it... and I used it for mulitple years.
I have gotten "used" to it not being there, just like I got "used" to it being there.

Yes, there are times that I wish it was there... but overall... I simply don't watch enough live tv anymore.... And I am a football junkie, but when my Bears are on... that is all I watch... unless there is a brake in the action.

And you can just hit Record on the main show, and check out the other...

We have had this debate before with the R15.... bottom line is..
If you must have dual live buffers... this unit is not for you.

[ksqrd]

Thanks for the review, Earl.

I'm a long-term DTV/TiVo customer, and even took part in an early hardware beta test for them years ago. As a current owner of HD10-250 units, I'm genuinely not sure why everyone is getting excited about this unit.

From what I gather...

1. Great build quality (not really an issue for me--I've never had a hardware problem and in my experience, reliability doesn't always correlate well with how solid a unit looks, subjectively).

2. No dual buffers. Big drag here.

3. More immediately responsive buttons. Nice, but not enough to offset the loss of TiVo functionality (user interface--don't really care much about "Suggestions") and tick marks during fast-forward. Also faster software handling of reprioritizations, etc. Nice, but not really a big deal for me either.

4. More connectivity that appears to be completely unused (e.g., network that can't call DTV) or for the cognoscenti (external hardware interface for more drive space).

5. Same size hard drive, so the only space advantage will be due to MP4 compression.

Other than the obvious reason (i.e., the 10-250 units will effectively be doorstops at some time in the future) why would someone trade in a 10-250 for one of these now?!?

Someone please help me understand if I'm missing something--thanks in advance.

KK

[JohnSorTivo]

We have had this debate before with the R15.... bottom line is..
If you must have dual live buffers... this unit is not for you.Unfortunately, I've not been part of the R15 debate, as I never had a need / interest in the unit. I must have dual buffers and I want to be a DTV customer. It's a shame, it seems, I can't have both, if I want to move to HD. Hmmm, I wonder what the Tivo Series 3 will do...

[BrandonH]

Huh? Showcases, etc, are downloaded today via the SDD, in the middle of the night. They don't need to occupy a second tuner 100% of the time for that.

it...

I don't know what the SDD is but the "Showcases" on the DirecTV DVR are supposed to be a lot different from the ones on our Tivos. It is supposed to be more like a Video on Demand Feature with PPV's and everything. It's got to download all that content sometime. For example downloading a two hour PPV movie for for the video on demand feature to store on the hard drive for later use will take two hours on one of the tuners. What do you think would happen to the buffer on that tuner when its downloading that movie?

[epaul]

I switched to E a few months ago but I am still interested in D. Sounds like this receiver has a lot of potential.

You said it appeared that the receiver was acquiring an address over Ethernet. Can you ping it's address to see if there is a response? Have you tried a usb ethernet adapter?

How many software updates have you seen?

I've got the VIP-622 now and really like the picture in picture (used to have Ultimate tv). Any chance this might get added later?

Thanks for the review.

I'll bet you get first shot at a few other goodies since you have proven you can keep your lip zipped. :lol:

[KipBond]

This came as a surprise to me, as I'm still on multiple HDVR2s, and dual buffers is probably one of the most important features I use every single day. This in and of itself will likely cause me to look elsewhere as I transition to HD.

I'm at a loss to come up with valid reasons why such an option would seemingly intentionally be disabled.

Obviously I'm a newbie on this forum (this is my first post), so hopefully this question isn't completely stupid:

If you have 2 live shows you want to jump back and forth between, why not just record them both, and jump back and forth (whenever you want)?

What is the purpose of having two live buffers?

I rarely watch live TV anymore, but I can see where sports fans would. But, then why not just record the 2 channels you'd be switching between? :confused:

[upgrade-itis]

Nice job Earl.

I would prefer dual buffers as well, but realize that this is the ONLY HD DVR option to get new HD content from D*.

I wonder how many of the "Pry my HR 10 from my dead hands" people will be around when new HD national channels are added in '07 in MPEG4?

Now I have another forum to read each day.

[Earl Bonovich]

I didn't try to ping the box.
Just looked at DHCP history and saw that one was taken.

Didn't try the USB-ethernet.. wireless I would presume...

As for the number of software updates?...... can't tell ya that one :)

I would put PIP as you know it on the VIP, right ahead of dual buffers in the list of things to be added (aka, most likely not)

I actually already have another goodie... nothing of this scale... but that review should be next week.

[Earl Bonovich]

Obviously I'm a newbie on this forum (this is my first post), so hopefully this question isn't completely stupid:

If you have 2 live shows you want to jump back and forth between, why not just record them both, and jump back and forth (whenever you want)?

What is the purpose of having two live buffers?

I rarely watch live TV anymore, but I can see where sports fans would. But, then why not just record the 2 channels you'd be switching between? :confused:


You can do that (with the PREV button). right now the downside, is that the unit doesn't remember your pause point. "Technically speaking", this is the exact same as dual buffers... other then it "saves" the show.

[RAD]

AHH!!! DING DING!!
You are correct... I forgot about that...

I was hoping it would be something along those lines. Now I wonder how long it will be before that's something available???

[Clint Lamor]

Unfortunately, I've not been part of the R15 debate, as I never had a need / interest in the unit. I must have dual buffers and I want to be a DTV customer. It's a shame, it seems, I can't have both, if I want to move to HD. Hmmm, I wonder what the Tivo Series 3 will do...

From my understanding it will allow you to get cable. I think it's big upside is that it's CableCard so right there says it's pretty useless outside of having cable.

[raynman]

Hello Earl,

Does/will the HR20 support multi-room viewing. I would like to view recorded shows on one unit (living room) on another unit (bedroom).

Thanks!
:)

[yensid]

I have a DTV/Tivo R10. What functionality difference besides MPEG4/HD will be different? I'm a newby on this one when it comes to dual buffers. Please explain the difference. Thanks!

P.S. This forum is fantastic for troubleshooting and information. And yes new releases!

[rohn_s]

I recently purchased an R15. From Earl's review it appears this unit is much more stable than the R15. Wondering if DTV allow me to trade in my R15 for the HR20?

[JohnSorTivo]

I don't know what the SDD is but the "Showcases" on the DirecTV DVR are supposed to be a lot different from the ones on our Tivos.SDD = Service Data Download

What do you think would happen to the buffer on that tuner when its downloading that movie?Again, do it in the middle of the night, when it has minimal impact on most viewers.

I'm not trying to dig up an old debate. It is what it is. This was just "new" news to me.

I rarely watch live TV anymore, but I can see where sports fans would. But, then why not just record the 2 channels you'd be switching between?Beause I don't want to record them, forcibly tie up both tuners, delete them, etc. I'm just watching them. A commerical comes on, I switch tuners, back up to where the previous show came back from commerical, watch it, a commerical comes, I switch tuners, and the cycle continues. It's just a nice convenience that I've become accustomed to.

Again, no need to re-hash the debate, just didn't know it wasn't going to be there, and am a bit disappointed.

[mongo]

Earl, thanks for the review.

From a personal perspective, would you prefer this unit, or the HR10-250 with the 6.3 upgrades?

What are the 3 biggest advantages of this over the HR10-250? What are the 3 biggest advantages of the HR10-250 over this unit?

Also, are you saying this unit does have 30 second skip forward?

Thanks

[ThomC]

.....
As to the lack of dual buffers while watching football. Why not just start recording one of the games, or both, and then play them back.

Often more than 2 channels are in play.
While I realize that only 2 can be buffered, often it's..
Watch Game1
Buffer Game 2
Switch from Game 1 to Game 3 for new buffer
Switch to & watch Game 2 from buffer
Find another game that is not a blowout and start a new buffer (Game 4).
Go back and watch Game 3 from buffer
and so on repeatedly as the games dictate (Sunday Ticket Rocks!!!)
Starting and stopping to make each of these bits recordings would be a pain to say the least.

That said the new unit sounds good, but I will stick with the HR10-250 for as long as I can. (I was told NYC Locals and RSNs will remain mpeg-2 for quite some time).
I can only hope that 6.3 comes along soon so I won't be envying all that's better in the HR20.

[Clint Lamor]

Early, thanks for the review.

From a personal perspective, would you prefer this unit, or the HR10-250 with the 6.3 upgrades?

What are the 3 biggest advantages of this over the HR10-250? What are the 3 biggest advantages of the HR10-250 over this unit?

Also, are you saying this unit does have 30 second skip forward?

Thanks

The unit has 30 Second Slip which is a high speed fast forward thats automated. This feature is in use on the R15 also. Some like it Some like Tivo's 30 Second Skip more so. I actually like it as I see some stuff I want to look at.

[Tonedeaf]

Hello Earl,

Does/will the HR20 support multi-room viewing. I would like to view recorded shows on one unit (living room) on another unit (bedroom).

Thanks!
:)

Not possible on any of the DirecTV DVR's out of the box, unless you "hack" the SD Tivo units.

[Earl Bonovich]

Raynman... no it doesn't have MRV at this point... not sure if it is going to be a feature later or not.

[Earl Bonovich]

Early, thanks for the review.

From a personal perspective, would you prefer this unit, or the HR10-250 with the 6.3 upgrades?

What are the 3 biggest advantages of this over the HR10-250? What are the 3 biggest advantages of the HR10-250 over this unit?

Also, are you saying this unit does have 30 second skip forward?

Thanks


From a "personal" perspective.... now this me and my situation.
I am selling my HR10...

It is not that the HR10 is not a good unit, and will be better with 6.3

Today... on the table... the HR20 is only modestly better then the HR10, and that really depends on what aspect you are looking at between the boxes. Some areas it is worse, some it is a lot better.. IMHO.

But more so... it is what is comming in the pipeline that has me more intrested.

Two other factors:
I can't recieve my CBS-OTA via the HR10... haven't since the day I got it.
I used the NY CBS feed once it was available, and that will soon be going away (not very soon, but soon enough)..

H20 (not the HR20) was able to tune the CBS-DT OTA signal... and from what I have been told the OTA tuners in the HR20 are better then the H20s..

The 2nd factor..
The market is still good for an HR10 resale. I spent $900 on that unit when it was first released... and if I can recoop some of that cost... :)

[Earl Bonovich]

I have a DTV/Tivo R10. What functionality difference besides MPEG4/HD will be different? I'm a newby on this one when it comes to dual buffers. Please explain the difference. Thanks!

P.S. This forum is fantastic for troubleshooting and information. And yes new releases!


Yensid...

We started a second thread for that:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62084

[pmathys]

I just ordered the HR20. It will be installed this Saturday. Thank you Earl for your review. I can't wait to try it out.

Earl - since I'm a new poster, is it OK for me to post the particulars regarding pricing, etc. I do not have an exisiting DVR for those concerned about swapping.

Paul

[raynman]

Raynman... no it doesn't have MRV at this point... not sure if it is going to be a feature later or not.
Earl and Tonedeaf,

Thank you - I was hoping it was available, but I guess I'll stick to my H210-250 until MRV is available...it's just inconvenient that you cannot network these units and view recorded shows on any unit...sigh.

[Earl Bonovich]

I just ordered the HR20. It will be installed this Saturday. Thank you Earl for your review. I can't wait to try it out.

Earl - since I'm a new poster, is it OK for me to post the particulars regarding pricing, etc. I do not have an exisiting DVR for those concerned about swapping.

Paul

Sure... just post it to this thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=629235#post629235

[Jeremy W]

Then it would seem you don't come from a unit where you previously had it...
Actually, I've got two Tivos right now, and I never switch between the two buffers. It's just not a feature that I care about.

[gglockner]

I wonder how many of the "Pry my HR 10 from my dead hands" people will be around when new HD national channels are added in '07 in MPEG4?


Looking for me? :lol: I've been a TiVo fanatic since my standalone TiVo in 2001. I've sold enough of my friends and family on TiVo that I ought to be getting commissions.

What makes a TiVo so great is that it works reliably and simply. It's one of the few gadgets I've seen where wives beg their husbands to buy it, not the other way around.

The reviews of the R15 and the various DVRs from Dish made me pretty convinced that they weren't in the same league as TiVo. Earl's review of the HR20 gives me hope that someone besides TiVo and Microsoft has figured out how to build a reliable DVR. That said, I'm not going to be the first to adopt the HR20. I'll wait until D* releases more HD channels that I cannot receive via my new HR10.

[bidger]

.Other than the obvious reason (i.e., the 10-250 units will effectively be doorstops at some time in the future) why would someone trade in a 10-250 for one of these now?!?

Someone please help me understand if I'm missing something--thanks in advance.

KK
Ability to record MPEG-4 RSNs.

[dan8379]

Ability to record MPEG-4 RSNs.

Not to mention those of us who get spotty OTA reception. Nothing more frustrating than pulling up a recorded show on the HR10-250 only to find that CBS decided it didn't want to come in for me at the time I was recording. 30 minutes of unwatchable jibberish is no fun....

[elbodude]

Looking for me? :lol: I've been a TiVo fanatic since my standalone TiVo in 2001. I've sold enough of my friends and family on TiVo that I ought to be getting commissions.

What makes a TiVo so great is that it works reliably and simply. It's one of the few gadgets I've seen where wives beg their husbands to buy it, not the other way around.

The reviews of the R15 and the various DVRs from Dish made me pretty convinced that they weren't in the same league as TiVo. Earl's review of the HR20 gives me hope that someone besides TiVo and Microsoft has figured out how to build a reliable DVR. That said, I'm not going to be the first to adopt the HR20. I'll wait until D* releases more HD channels that I cannot receive via my new HR10.

I know this is a discussion of the new HR20, but...

I just gave up my HR10-250 for a Dish ViP 622. It has the dual buffers, the multi-room viewing and the 30-second skip. I do miss the Tivo interface, but I am getting used to the 622. Plus, I have TONS more HD and my HD locals over the Sat. This new box from D* seems comparable to the 622 minus the dual buffers on the HR20. Hmmm... I just got FOOD network HD, so now the wife is happy.

MY D* account it still active as I "evaluate" E*, but I am tempted to try this HR20.

[dbroome]

There were three things I hated about the HR10-250 when I moved to it from the Hughes receivers I had:
1) Speed. The TIVO is abysmally slow
2) The inability to have a one line guide at the bottom of the screen to browse through what is on while still watching tv
3) Multiple Favorite channel lists (one for me, one for my wife and one for the kids)

From reading the review it appears that 1 and 2 are corrected in the hr20. What about number 3? Can I have multiple favorite channel lists?

[TMullenJr]

Hey Earl, can you let us know what accessories were included with the unit? Specifically, by any chance did it include an HDMI cable? I'm guessing no, but if I remember right, the HR10 came with the HDMI to DVI adapter, so you never know.

[Jeremy W]

Can I have multiple favorite channel lists?
You sure can.

[Earl Bonovich]

For number 3, you can have 2 favorite lists.

[bidger]

So far the review looks good to me. However, it will be a long time before I can even use one (DMA=156). And, DirecTV probably won't do a free swap out with my owned HR10-250 until my DMA actually has locals.

Would DirecTV even allow subscribers get this unit if they don't yet have their locals?

As to the lack of dual buffers while watching football. Why not just start recording one of the games, or both, and then play them back.
Hey neighbor.

Well, there is a situation that affects those of us in the NY RSN area and that is, while those with MPEG-4 equipment can catch every HD broadcast by YES on ch. 96, those of us with MPEG-2 equipment have to accept that ch. 95 is now a national MLB HD channel and there will be times when another markets games will bump a YES HD game.

As for not just recording NFL-ST games rather than watching on the buffer, for me I prefer to watch live because just because a game looks like a good matchup on paper, doesn't mean it plays that way on the field.

As far as locals, and you know we're in fairly similar circumstances, we'll see what the coming year brings. The situation with Dish Network and distants may force their hand to 100% coverage. Would D* be far behind if that occurs?

Earl, thanks for the review and I see a lot of things I like. I'm glad that it won't be something TiVo fanatics can feast on like they have the R-15. We need more quality DVRs on the market, not fewer.

[Earl Bonovich]

Hey Earl, can you let us know what accessories were included with the unit? Specifically, by any chance did it include an HDMI cable? I'm guessing no, but if I remember right, the HR10 came with the HDMI to DVI adapter, so you never know.

It came with the component cables (and composite)... no HDMI/DVI where included. pretty much the same as what came with the H20

[YankeeFan]

Earl, thanks for a great review. One question about ATSC and MPEG-4. Are the MPEG-4 HD channels the same HD-Lite crap we get in MPEG-2? If they are, I'll wait until the ATSC tuners work. Right now I record all my network feeds via OTA because it looks way better than what comes over the sat.

[mongo]

From a "personal" perspective.... now this me and my situation.
I am selling my HR10...

It is not that the HR10 is not a good unit, and will be better with 6.3

Today... on the table... the HR20 is only modestly better then the HR10, and that really depends on what aspect you are looking at between the boxes. Some areas it is worse, some it is a lot better.. IMHO.

But more so... it is what is comming in the pipeline that has me more intrested.

Two other factors:
I can't recieve my CBS-OTA via the HR10... haven't since the day I got it.
I used the NY CBS feed once it was available, and that will soon be going away (not very soon, but soon enough)..

H20 (not the HR20) was able to tune the CBS-DT OTA signal... and from what I have been told the OTA tuners in the HR20 are better then the H20s..

The 2nd factor..
The market is still good for an HR10 resale. I spent $900 on that unit when it was first released... and if I can recoop some of that cost... :)

Earl,
When you say "What is coming in the pipeline", do you mean on the HR20, or on another box that may be coming?

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, thanks for a great review. One question about ATSC and MPEG-4. Are the MPEG-4 HD channels the same HD-Lite crap we get in MPEG-2? If they are, I'll wait until the ATSC tuners work. Right now I record all my network feeds via OTA because it looks way better than what comes over the sat.

In general... and this is from my Eyes to my brain, on my Plasma TV.

The MPEG-4 versions of the channel where just as good as the ones I got via OTA... now this was on the H20.... and it should be very similar to that of the HR20.

I can say, that shows such as Stargate on Sci/Fi have looked MUCH better, then they did from my DSR704... could be the connections (HDMI vs S-Video) but.....

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl,
When you say "What is coming in the pipeline", do you mean on the HR20, or on another box that may be coming?

:) No, nothing that big or exciting...

Actually they are the size of a "remote" ;)

[bidger]

Not to mention those of us who get spotty OTA reception.
Right, I'd heard that H20 had much better ATSC tuner capability than the HR10-250.

[elbodude]

Earl, great review.

When recording a program on one tuner and you want to change the channel, do you get a warning message about the current recording or does it automatically go to the other chanel on the other tuner like the HR10 does?

Thanks!
-elbo

[Earl Bonovich]

Right, I'd heard that H20 had much better ATSC tuner capability than the HR10-250.

That is an understatement... :) (IMHO)

[ad301]

Earl, thanks for the review and I see a lot of things I like. I'm glad that it won't be something TiVo fanatics can feast on like they have the R-15. We need more quality DVRs on the market, not fewer.We should probably hold off on making a judgement on the hr20's quality until some users actually get a chance to use it, don't you think? I plan on making my own personal judgement after I can use it myself (depending on the return policy :) ).

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, great review.

When recording a program on one tuner and you want to change the channel, do you get a warning message about the current recording or does it automatically go to the other chanel on the other tuner like the HR10 does?

Thanks!
-elbo

Most of the time, the HR20 will try to do the recording on the background tuner.

But if by chance, it is on the foreground tuner (and no longer recording something on the background tuner)... it will just go ahead and change.

And of course, if you have something recording on both...
It will ask what you want to do.

[rb5505]

I was able to call customer retention and get them to note on my account that the swap out will be free for me when they are available in my area (Milwaukee). I think she said that had to with how long you have had the HR10-250, but I am not sure on that fact.

i was told yesterday basically the same thing. because we have the hr10-250 now and because we have the protection plan, she noted to our account that the upgrade to the new hd unit would be free (sometime later this year or early '07 she thought).

[aburdick1]

Earl,

Thanks for the review; that's a lot of very helpful information. I had just a couple follow-up questions:

1. I was very excited to hear that the HR20 will allow you to send HD content to the TV via HDMI or component. My question: have you tried watching HD content sent to the TV via component? If so, how does the picture quality compare?

2. When you say that the HR20 contains an ATSC tuner (and I realize there's some confusion about whether it's active or not), does that mean I would still need to purchase an OTA antenna to plug into the HR20, to receive any OTA HD local channels?

Thanks,
Andy Burdick
Chicago, IL

[bobnielsen]

2. When you say that the HR20 contains an ATSC tuner (and I realize there's some confusion about whether it's active or not), does that mean I would still need to purchase an OTA antenna to plug into the HR20, to receive any OTA HD local channels?




Yes, just as with the HR10 and H20.

[Earl Bonovich]

Andy...

For #1: Didn't try it, but I will... probably not till tomorrow though
For #2: There is no confusion... it is not active right now. , Yes... if you want any of the OTA stations, you will need an OTA antenna. (This would be for items such as: WGN-DT, WCIU-DT, WTTW-DT, WPWR-DT)
WBBM, WLS, WFLD, WMAQ (I think that is CBS), they are available via SAT if you upgrade to the AT9 dish.

[Lynskyn]

Are the composite outputs always active on this box (I have to change to 480i on my HR10 for them to work).. Thanks

[Earl Bonovich]

Are the composite outputs always active on this box (I have to change to 480i on my HR10 for them to work).. Thanks

Yes...
All the video and screen shot captures you see in the review... where done with the unit set to 1080i...

The Mini-DV camcorder where connected via composite connections

[Lynskyn]

Thanks! Now I want one.

[Nick]

Good job, Earl. Thanks for the blood, sweat & tears.

Uh, is that a Mr. Potato(e) Head beneath your monitor? :grin:

[pappys]

Nice job Earl.

I would prefer dual buffers as well, but realize that this is the ONLY HD DVR option to get new HD content from D*.

Now I have another forum to read each day.

I was so GEEKED up when I saw this forum today. Until I read only one buffer :nono2: I will have to just understand, that IF I want HD locals in my L/R with DVR functionality, this will be the best way to get it.

[pappys]

[QUOTE=ThomC;629199]Often more than 2 channels are in play.
While I realize that only 2 can be buffered, often it's..
Watch Game1
Buffer Game 2
Switch from Game 1 to Game 3 for new buffer
Switch to & watch Game 2 from buffer
Find another game that is not a blowout and start a new buffer (Game 4).
Go back and watch Game 3 from buffer
and so on repeatedly as the games dictate (Sunday Ticket Rocks!!!)
Starting and stopping to make each of these bits recordings would be a pain to say the least.

That's exactly how I do my watching as well

[Earl Bonovich]

Good job, Earl. Thanks for the blood, sweat & tears.

Uh, is that a Mr. Potato(e) Head beneath your monitor? :grin:

Your welcome...
I had to go back and look back at the photo.

No that is a "clay" project, from when I was in 4th grade....
Darth Tater and SpudTrooper over to my left ontop of my cable-modem.. :D

[JBernardK]

First, does it have two OTA tuners like the HR10, or just one? Will you be able to record any two channels like the HR10?

I must say I am somewhat concerned that the OTA tuners and the SATA port will never be "activated". D* has a long history--from the first units with serial ports--of including features that never get activated.

[pappys]

Earl, I am in the same Chicago market as you. I have no OTA. Will I still get the local HD's before the ATSC is activated? Maybe a dumb question....

[heathramos]

Earl is even mentioned on Gizmodo for his review.

Now he is really famous.

[fpd917]

With no atsc tuners will I be able to get my locals in HD using the Hr20. I am outside of Nashville, which has there locals available via D* with mpeg4, yet I am too far away to use an antenna. One of the main reasons I want the HR20 is to get locals via mpeg4

[skinnyJM]

Excellent Review!
Nice work Earl.

[Earl Bonovich]

First, does it have two OTA tuners like the HR10, or just one? Will you be able to record any two channels like the HR10?

I must say I am somewhat concerned that the OTA tuners and the SATA port will never be "activated". D* has a long history--from the first units with serial ports--of including features that never get activated.

Unconditionally I can say... the OTA tuners will be activated.
And when they are, it will be two just like the HR10.

The eSATA they are EXTREMELY intrested in... and if things go they way we discussed... it would be a pretty good solution.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, I am in the same Chicago market as you. I have no OTA. Will I still get the local HD's before the ATSC is activated? Maybe a dumb question....

Very much so.
So long as you have the AT9 dish.

[Earl Bonovich]

With no atsc tuners will I be able to get my locals in HD using the Hr20. I am outside of Nashville, which has there locals available via D* with mpeg4, yet I am too far away to use an antenna. One of the main reasons I want the HR20 is to get locals via mpeg4

Depends on the DMA layout.
If you are still in Nashville's DMA... then you should be able to get them.
If not... then you would have to talk with DirecTV about other options... such as DNS feeds.

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

It seems to me that the answer to why there aren't dual buffers is a pretty easy one. Once DirecTV activates the Showcases feature on these boxes they want to keep the second tuner free as much as possible to be able to download these Showcases. Having to keep dual buffers would essentially keep both tuners busy at all times and there wouldn't be an available tuner to download the Showcases. You would need a third sat tuner for the Showcases feature to work and have dual buffers available at all times.

My hats off to Earl and DBSTalk for breaking with an actual in-depth review of this great DIRECTV development. The significance here is not just the fabulous HD DVR product, the greater value to all of us and DIRECTV is how this product poises them to roll-out tons of Nationwide HD channels with their tremendous untaped capacity of their MPEG-4 and older MPEG-2 satellites and efficient compression.

BrandonH, you are 100% correct, however, this does not mean that we will never see a dual buffer. It is possible that when DIRECTV wants to push content to the second buffer you may be able to override DIRECTV use while you are actively using the DVR. The DVR may be able to be programmed to try later if the second tuner or even when just viewing live TV with one tuner in use within the past hour or so.

I was told the ATSC tuner will be the very best ever made. It will be very sensitive and extremely selective so multi-path will not be a problem.

This is very exciting times for HD consumers and DIRECTV.

Great new HD DVR, Bravo DIRECTV!

-Robert

[Alan Gordon]

I LOVE my HD-TiVo, and I will be the first to state my displeasure with DirecTV for no longer offering a TiVo option since TiVo is my favorite consumer electronics device that I own. Not to mention, with the exception of the HD usage meter, I could care less about any other features I've read about (PPV VOD, Caller ID, faster GUI, etc), but with cable out of my reach, if I want to continue receiving HDTV cable channels, I'll have to upgrade to the HR20, and stay content with my SD DirecTiVos, Stand-Alone TiVo, and hopefully, a TiVo Series 3 within the next six months, so I'm willing to give it a try.

There are some features and future features about the R15 I do like, though. One is the simultaneous outputs (my Hughes HTL-HD did this allowing me to feed a TV in my bedroom as well, and I had to get fancier to allow me to continue doing this with the HD-TiVo. This should at least simplify things a little bit due to not having to switch resolutions. Another thing is remembering that DirecTV REALLY intends to push VOD with this unit, with 1000s of hours of content instead of just the current PPV content used by the R15. Some of it via satellite, the rest via Broadband, which is why I'm intending to hook it up to our wireless network... and don't I remember them saying that you can play media from your computer via your network (ala stand-alone TiVo and XBOX360?).

While I can't say if this is a like or dislike, remember that DirecTV intends to redesign their GUI Q42006/1Q2007.

That being said, I was excited to read your review Earl. While I didn't understand half of it due to not owning a R15, I have a question. You mentioned that you didn't have any reboots, but did you have any missed/screwed up recordings like I've read about from some R15 users?

While I have other questions, most of them involve the currently disabled ATSC tuners... so they will have to wait.

I would be putting off getting an HR20 until I was missing out on something in MPEG4, but with me being an East coast DNS customer, I will probably be forced to late this year or early next year if I wanted to keep receiving them. Should DirecTV add a HD channel when they add DNS versions of "The CW", I will more than likely be calling to get it... plus, it will be nice to be able to go ahead and get the 5-LNB dish installed...

~Alan<~~~~~~~~~~~~~Who has the chance to use a Sony HDR-FX1 1080i HD camcorder today... though not in the way he wanted to...

[dvrblogger]

This has been at least a year and half in the making, and it has less features than the HR10. But if I want to get any new HD channels (MPEG4), I have to upgrade and pay $399 (unless I compalin to Retention)?

I'm probably being way to critical, but simply - I just don't get it.

How long ago was the HR10 released? Where is the differentiator in their product now? Why would I pay a premium - higher monthly subs, pay for the receivers that I don't own / can't hack, fewer HD channels... D* better hang on to their exclusive rights to the NFL Ticket...

-h

You will most likely have OTA channel before the end of the year and the picture in guide, fast scrolling,better search, support for MPEG4 HD which will mean 100-150 HD national channels will be well worth the wait. The TIVO is 2-3 year old technology. The HR20 will also have support for portable devices and PCs coming in the future. ANyone who is in love with only Tivo will not be convinced everyone else will be very happy with the new box.

[SolidState]

I live in the LA DMA, but had a few questions. If someone can point me to a thread that may have my answers, that would be appreciated (or answer them here :)).

First, I have two HR10's, both with the 2 ATSC tuners activated. If I want to ADD an HR20 to my setup, I know I'll get a new dish (AT9?), but will I still be able to utilize my 2 HR10's as-is? I'm not ready to give up my TiVos(with HDD upgrades) + OTA just yet, but I am interested in the MP4 capability.

Second, which channels would I be able to get above and beyond my SAT-HD and OTA-HD channels I already receive (I get ALL Los Angeles area OTA stations, yea!)?

I'm not a TiVo-only person, I also have an SA8300HD (for HowardTV), and while it has a small HDD, it records what I want reliably, but it doesn't do dual-tuning too well(the 2nd tuner always reset to channel 0), which I miss, but it's not a deal-breaker. I'm just an early-adopter who wants as many HD channels as I can get.

Damn my 18-month old Plasma and it's limited inputs!

Solid <~~~~~~~~~~~~~ who HAS an HDR-FX1, but no HR20 to capture screenshots!

[jdspencer]

I don't know what the SDD is but the "Showcases" on the DirecTV DVR are supposed to be a lot different from the ones on our Tivos. It is supposed to be more like a Video on Demand Feature with PPV's and everything. It's got to download all that content sometime. For example downloading a two hour PPV movie for for the video on demand feature to store on the hard drive for later use will take two hours on one of the tuners. What do you think would happen to the buffer on that tuner when its downloading that movie?Is it possible that the buffer wouldn't be needed during a movie download? Only the tuner, recording directly to the reserved space on the HD.

[Earl Bonovich]

I have a question. You mentioned that you didn't have any reboots, but did you have any missed/screwed up recordings like I've read about from some R15 users?

I haven't watched everything that has been recorded, but to date... nothing has been screwed up.

Everything that I "thought" was to record, has been recorded.
Everytihing that I "thought" was NOT going to record, hasn't recorded.

hope that answers the questions.

[Earl Bonovich]

I live in the LA DMA, but had a few questions. If someone can point me to a thread that may have my answers, that would be appreciated (or answer them here :)).

First, I have two HR10's, both with the 2 ATSC tuners activated. If I want to ADD an HR20 to my setup, I know I'll get a new dish (AT9?), but will I still be able to utilize my 2 HR10's as-is? I'm not ready to give up my TiVos(with HDD upgrades) + OTA just yet, but I am interested in the MP4 capability.

Second, which channels would I be able to get above and beyond my SAT-HD and OTA-HD channels I already receive (I get ALL Los Angeles area OTA stations, yea!)?



:)
If you get the appropriate multiswitch (Zinwell-WB68 or one of the new Spaun ones), you will be perfectly fine running all of those boxes on one AT9 dish. I currenttly have 1 HR10-250, 1 DSR704, 2 R15s, 1 R10, a Samsung Fliptop all hooked up..

As for additional channels... none yet.

[chriswaz]

Fantastic.. I've been emailing and calling Directv every couple of weeks since May waiting for this (too bad it missed the World Cup!)...

Are you using the HR20 with the AT9 dish? ANd/or the WB68 multiswitch?

I'm in Phoenix, so I'm hoping the next areas are those close to LA!

Thanks.
-----
- Chris

[Drew2k]

Earl, Thanks for the review. Great job as usual!

The speed with which the HR20 re-orders titles in the prioritizer is impressive, but the HR10-250 re-orders titles just as quickly. The problem with the HR10-250 is that when you try to LEAVE the Season Pass manager after re-ordering, the box sits at the Please Wait message for too long.

I'm assuming the prioritizer doesn't dynamically update the To Do list as you re-order the items, but waits to update the To-Do list only when you are finished ordering the titles, just like on the HR10-250.

What happens when you leave the Prioritizer after re-ordering?

[Earl Bonovich]

I just posted an addendum with some more screen shots:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=629427&postcount=17

And I just tested: Composite, Component, HDMI... all work at the same time.

[Earl Bonovich]

Fantastic.. I've been emailing and calling Directv every couple of weeks since May waiting for this (too bad it missed the World Cup!)...

Are you using the HR20 with the AT9 dish? ANd/or the WB68 multiswitch?

I'm in Phoenix, so I'm hoping the next areas are those close to LA!

Thanks.
-----
- Chris


Yes, the HR20 is with the AT9 dish...
The AT9 feeds to a 6802 (I still need to get that replaced with a WB68).
The 6802 connects directly to the HR20, and also sends 4 feeds to my multiswitch array (the ones from my Phase-III days), that power al the other units.

[Drew2k]

Another question for you Earl ... (Bet you can't wait for others to get the HR20 so you can go have dinner or something!)

I am also interested in how the HR20 handles CC. On the HR10-250, it's over 12 keystrokes to turn on or off CC, because you have to dig through the Settings Menus.

Does the HR20 remote have a dedicated CC key? Or is there an onscreen shortcut menu to turn CC on and off?

Thanks.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, Thanks for the review. Great job as usual!

The speed with which the HR20 re-orders titles in the prioritizer is impressive, but the HR10-250 re-orders titles just as quickly. The problem with the HR10-250 is that when you try to LEAVE the Season Pass manager after re-ordering, the box sits at the Please Wait message for too long.

I'm assuming the prioritizer doesn't dynamically update the To Do list as you re-order the items, but waits to update the To-Do list only when you are finished ordering the titles, just like on the HR10-250.

What happens when you leave the Prioritizer after re-ordering?

Ahh... I did clip that out of the video.
It goes right back to where you ever you came from... no "Please Wait" screens.

I was showing the prioritizing speed, as any one knows with an R15....... it is night and day (performance wise)

[Earl Bonovich]

Another question for you Earl ... (Bet you can't wait for others to get the HR20 so you can go have dinner or something!)

I am also interested in how the HR20 handles CC. On the HR10-250, it's over 12 keystrokes to turn on or off CC, because you have to dig through the Settings Menus.

Does the HR20 remote have a dedicated CC key? Or is there an onscreen shortcut menu to turn CC on and off?

Thanks.

I am a "big" man... even you guys don't keep me from my dinner.
I just posted some screen shots for the CC.

To enable it... about 6 clicks, and 4 of those are arrowing down an onscreen menu (you still get the pip in the top left)

There is not a dedicated menu.

But you have your choice of a TON of options for the CC.
The Font, the Size of the Font, the Fore Ground Color, the BackGround Color, how translucent.... a ton of options.

[fpd917]

Depends on the DMA layout.
If you are still in Nashville's DMA... then you should be able to get them.
If not... then you would have to talk with DirecTV about other options... such as DNS feeds.

I am in Nashville's DMA, so therefore I should get them, correct??

[Drew2k]

Thanks for the speedy answers on my Prioritizing question. :)

I realize CC is not the most used feature, but I'm surprised and a little disappointed that the only way to turn it on or off is still buried in sub-menus. It's a few less keystrokes than the HR10, but still ... :(


(Now, really, go eat something! Your dinner must be getting cold!)

[Earl Bonovich]

I am in Nashville's DMA, so therefore I should get them, correct??

You should, for that you can contact DirecTV today and ask and get a for sure answer

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks for the speedy answers on my Prioritizing question. :)

I realize CC is not the most used feature, but I'm surprised and a little disappointed that the only way to turn it on or off is still buried in sub-menus. It's a few less keystrokes than the HR10, but still ... :(


(Now, really, go eat something! Your dinner must be getting cold!)

Actually CC is very important, and not to those that "need" it.
CC works great in Bars, and when having parties... and I am glad it is there.

I can understand why it isn't on the remote, as usually the "constant" users of CC, don't turn it on and off...

I already ate... but I am going to go and play some games with my son....

[lovswr]

As far as I know... no reall information is going over the network port.


Earl if you are at all familiar with just about any *nix distribution, you can use a program called Ethereal. It will tell you eveything, & I do mean everything, that you ever wanted to know about ethernet connections.


edit: Goodnes gracious, where are my manners! :eek: Mr. Bonovich, I, as well as all the others, say thank you, thank you, thank you!!

[ajwillys]

Earl if you are at all familiar with just about any *nix distribution, you can use a program called Ethereal. It will tell you eveything, & I do mean everything, that you ever wanted to know about ethernet connections.


Actually, Ethereal has very little to do with *nix other than it is preinstalled on most Linux distributions. By that I mean its also available on Windows, Mac, etc..... Also, its called Wireshark now but it is an excellent program.

[Alan Gordon]

I haven't watched everything that has been recorded, but to date... nothing has been screwed up.

Everything that I "thought" was to record, has been recorded.
Everytihing that I "thought" was NOT going to record, hasn't recorded.

hope that answers the questions.

It did! Thanks Earl!! :)

~Alan<~~~~~Who is still waiting on the OTA tuners to be activated to ask more questions...

[Alan Gordon]

Actually CC is very important, and not to those that "need" it.
CC works great in Bars, and when having parties... and I am glad it is there.

I can understand why it isn't on the remote, as usually the "constant" users of CC, don't turn it on and off...

I use it a lot at my house too (it can get pretty loud), but use my TV's CC instead of the HR10-250's.

~Alan

[lovswr]

--SNIP--

I actually already have another goodie... nothing of this scale... but that review should be next week.


Hmmm, is there a slim chance that you may drop us a line as to what it might be, beforehand? ;)

[MarkJones]

Thanks for the great review, Earl.

I have a question about cabling. I have two SAT cables coming to my HR10-250. I use diplexers before and after one of the cables to carry OTA signals from my attic OTA antenna.

With the HR20-700 and AT-9 antenna, can you still use diplexers for the OTA signals or do you have to run a third cable for OTA?

[Earl Bonovich]

Hmmm, is there a slim chance that you may drop us a line as to what it might be, beforehand? ;)

Nah... it isn't the Slimline.... To keep you all from guessing too much... It is about the size of a remote.

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks for the great review, Earl.

I have a question about cabling. I have two SAT cables coming to my HR10-250. I use diplexers before and after one of the cables to carry OTA signals from my attic OTA antenna.

With the HR20-700 and AT-9 antenna, can you still use diplexers for the OTA signals or do you have to run a third cable for OTA?

No you can't... And it is not because of the HR20.
The MPEG-4 signal is going to be carried in the frequency range that the diplexors use to carry the OTA signal.

However, there is some technology in the works that will allow you to only use 1 cable to feed the SAT tuners. Not sure when it is going to be released, or all the details on it though.

[lovswr]

I just ordered the HR20. It will be installed this Saturday. Thank you Earl for your review. I can't wait to try it out.

Earl - since I'm a new poster, is it OK for me to post the particulars regarding pricing, etc. I do not have an exisiting DVR for those concerned about swapping.

Paul


If you don't mind, what are the terms? Are you leasing or outright buying. Do you already have a HD Tivo & this is a swap or are you coming into this new? I guess the $64,000.00 dollar question is, how much does this thing cost? :D

edit: Ok I jsut saw the answer in the price thread. I'm so exicted that I got a little ahead of myself. I'm in Atlanta, so I feel ok that we will be in the next 40 markets that are due in the "Fall". Now the BIG question is...when does Fall start! :D

[Alan Gordon]

Second, which channels would I be able to get above and beyond my SAT-HD and OTA-HD channels I already receive (I get ALL Los Angeles area OTA stations, yea!)?

Solid <~~~~~~~~~~~~~ who HAS an HDR-FX1, but no HR20 to capture screenshots!

I got to borrow it from some people I know who are planning on using it for some events, but turns out that I don't have any firewire cables to plug it into my computer to play with the video... oh well, maybe I can use it again soon...

Now, back to being on-topic. Earl was incorrect. With a HR20 (or a H20) and a 5LNB dish, you will gain FOX Sports Net West. Other than that though, he was correct when he said nothing.

~Alan

[DCSholtis]

Earl is even mentioned on Gizmodo for his review.

Now he is really famous.

I saw that earlier. Bout fell off my chair when I saw them refer to the picture of the rear of the unit as an "ass shot". :lol:

[bpayne]

Thanks for the review.

On the SAT1 connection it also says (FTM) next to it, what does that mean???


Hmm... no idea.. didn't even notice it the first time.


FTM stands for Frequency Translation Module. The FTM system will be a change in direction for DirecTV towards a band-stacked system similar to the DishPro system. The FTM architecture is capable of some different things that the DishPro system can't do- but it will allow for the standard stuff band-stacked systems enable- 1 line DVRs being the most significant one.

Think of the FTM not in terms of a multiswitch/stacker "combo" and more like an interface hub. This "hub" will have 6 inputs from the dish and 4 outputs to the receivers. Lines are then split off from the hub with power pass splitters. There will also be an interface for a telephone connection. IRDs will no longer have to have hard lines ran to them- they can "dial out" over the coax to the FTM and then get to the NID. This will be in addition to the wireless phone jacks that will be built into the next generation of standard IRDs (D12).

I do not know if there is going to be a network interface- it doesn't appear there is. I've seen mock-ups of it having an antenna port. This is not meant for OTA but intuition says WI-FI.


No you can't... And it is not because of the HR20.
The MPEG-4 signal is going to be carried in the frequency range that the diplexors use to carry the OTA signal.

However, there is some technology in the works that will allow you to only use 1 cable to feed the SAT tuners. Not sure when it is going to be released, or all the details on it though.


Using the FTM means no more needing a BBC- yes, in case no one could guess- the BBC is an engineering "band-aid" until the FTM could be rolled out. This also means that with an FTM system, you're free to diplex again and it will not interfere with the 250-750mhz "B-Band".

I don't have an ETA on the FTM, but don't look for it to be rolled out until the D12 comes out. Also, I've gotten conflicting reports whether or not the R15 is FTM compatible or not. My guess is that it is not so expect a new SD DVR to appear before the FTM hits the streets.

Why go to the FTM now? Why is DTV going to the FTM at all? The people I've talked to have all said the same thing- DirecTV had to go to the FTM architecture once it decided to release a product like the HMC. 4 tuners, 5-7 satellite slots, can you imagine 4 home run RG-6 to each one of those? From that standpoint, the FTM system is kind of a no-brainer I guess.



I've been told that August 28 will be the day the that OTA tuners are enabled. This was speculation on the part of my source so YMMV.

And now for bad news- the RJ45 port is not specifically meant for a network connection in order for the HR-20 to dial out over the internet although I imagine that functionality is intended over the long run. The primary function for the ethernet connection is for VOD.

[bjflynn04]

Nah... it isn't the Slimline.... To keep you all from guessing too much... It is about the size of a remote.

That's because it is one of the new Directv Remotes isn't it.

[Herdfan]

Nah... it isn't the Slimline.... To keep you all from guessing too much... It is about the size of a remote.


Is D* going to enable the functionality to one of these: http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/callout.html

Note: This was in one of D*'s webcasts, so I'm not making it up.

[Ed Campbell]

Earl -- you've done all of us a great service.

Small question for anyone who's been switched. Do they let you keep your old dish? Or do they take it away as a "trophy" to prove they did their job?

I'd like to put my [hopefully, soon-to-be] old P3 over on the guest house; so, visitors can receive some of the SD channels we acquired with the addition of the 3rd bird.

[bs0]

Earl - u can bump/move this if you like, but is there anywhere i could see a comparison between the dish vip622 and the directvh20??

thanks.

[Earl Bonovich]

Now, back to being on-topic. Earl was incorrect. With a HR20 (or a H20) and a 5LNB dish, you will gain FOX Sports Net West. Other than that though, he was correct when he said nothing.
~Alan

You are right... I forgot about the RSN's being added.

[Earl Bonovich]

Is D* going to enable the functionality to one of these: http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/callout.html

Note: This was in one of D*'s webcasts, so I'm not making it up.

Yes... that is going to be part of the DirecTV2Go initiative... however, i don't have any additional details about it.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl -- you've done all of us a great service.

Small question for anyone who's been switched. Do they let you keep your old dish? Or do they take it away as a "trophy" to prove they did their job?

I'd like to put my [hopefully, soon-to-be] old P3 over on the guest house; so, visitors can receive some of the SD channels we acquired with the addition of the 3rd bird.


They took mine... but I am sur eyou could probably request to keep it..
Might cost though instead of being a free upgrade.

[pappys]

I LOVE my HD-TiVo, and I will be the first to state my displeasure with DirecTV for no longer offering a TiVo option since TiVo is my favorite consumer electronics device that I own.

I sincerely don't think you are the first. There are plenty of people in the other forums that don't like D* dropping Tivo. I LIKE Tivo, I am willing to try other things.

My only concern is TWF. Hope the wife likes the new format, and adapts to it. She JUST started using the harmony remote that I bought 5 months ago, after I put up the D* remote.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl - u can bump/move this if you like, but is there anywhere i could see a comparison between the dish vip622 and the directvh20??

thanks.

I know I can't answer you question... but I am sure one will be done soon.

[pappys]

I just posted an addendum with some more screen shots:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=629427&postcount=17

And I just tested: Composite, Component, HDMI... all work at the same time.

Ahh, great news that all outputs work!

[Capmeister]

Right, I'd heard that H20 had much better ATSC tuner capability than the HR10-250.

This is true for me. My H20 gets better reception than my HR-10. Stong Flint stations (I'm between Flint and Lansing and have my antenna pointed at lansing) don't come in on my HR-10, but DO come in on my H20. Very impressive. I'm hoping the HR20 is similar when their ATSC tuner are enabled (I won't try it if it's not) but for right now, I'll be watching the next six months and might try one next spring if the reviews continue to be good. I'm excited.

[SolidState]

I got to borrow it from some people I know who are planning on using it for some events, but turns out that I don't have any firewire cables to plug it into my computer to play with the video... oh well, maybe I can use it again soon...

Now, back to being on-topic. Earl was incorrect. With a HR20 (or a H20) and a 5LNB dish, you will gain FOX Sports Net West. Other than that though, he was correct when he said nothing.

~Alan

Thanks Earl and Alan for the info. I'll do some checking to see what kind of HD content they provide.

The FX1 is a sweet camera, but I lack the computer horsepower (you need a lot) to actually edit my footage. Good thing there's the 8 DV tapes for $20 at Costco -- I'm building a library of footage to edit later this year when I get a new comp.

Back to topic...

[yensid]

Any idea if the HR20 can output to a DVD Burner or VHS tape? I know my R10 can.

Thanks again Earl for all your info and help!

[Earl Bonovich]

Any idea if the HR20 can output to a DVD Burner or VHS tape? I know my R10 can.

Thanks again Earl for all your info and help!

Most certainly it could...
Since it outputs as 480i via the composite outputs...
You will be able to record on your DVD burner, or VHS Tape AND watch it in HD on your TV.

[REALLYTANGY]

I'm guessing there is no Gigabit on this box right? Anyone know if other iterations/vendors will release with Gigabit?

[Earl Bonovich]

I'm guessing there is no Gigabit on this box right? Anyone know if other iterations/vendors will release with Gigabit?


You know what... I don't know.
I'll drag home a gigabit switch from work to see if it lights up the 1000 indicator.

(My home network is centered on a 100 switch)

[ToddinVA]

Dual Buffers....

Ultimately it is in DirecTV's control, hence why I say "Never say Never"
But... I would have to put it higher then 90% that Dual Live Buffers, won't make it to HR20 and R15.

Sadly, I can't share the reasons why.
I agree with some of them, disagree with some of them as well.

As of this moment, I don't know of any plans to add them.
Sorry... but that is just what I know, and my gut fealing on it.

That would be a shame if they don't eventually support dual buffers. It would be a showstopper for me. I use it all the time. And of course that and the lack of the Suggestions feature really make it less usable than the HDTiVo. I like some of the features you are describing, but they'll have to take my HDTiVo from my cold dead hands, especially once 6.3 comes out.... :lol:

[ToddinVA]

BTW, what fast forward speeds does it support? I assume you can FF faster than 3x. :confused: TiVos can FF at 60x....

[Alan Gordon]

5. Could they add a way in Parental control (ala adult) to bock any content or channels from even be keyed into via the remote ?

Granted, I don't record anything that I care whether someone sees or not, BUT I'd really like it if you can lock out some programs from even showing on the Now Playing List (or MyVod or whatever it's called). I think Stand-Alone TiVo's with KidZone enabled does this (I've never activated KidZone, so I'm not sure). I think this would be a really cool feature for those with kids... or if you're just ashamed of having 50 episodes of "Married With Children" or pretty much ANY reality show on there! ;)

~Alan

[Earl Bonovich]

The 1x, 2x, 3x are the arbitrary numbers you see on the screen.

3x on the HR20 is about the same as 3x on the DTiVos

[Earl Bonovich]

Granted, I don't record anything that I care whether someone sees or not, BUT I'd really like it if you can lock out some programs from even showing on the Now Playing List (or MyVod or whatever it's called). I think Stand-Alone TiVo's with KidZone enabled does this (I've never activated KidZone, so I'm not sure). I think this would be a really cool feature for those with kids... or if you're just ashamed of having 50 episodes of "Married With Children" or pretty much ANY reality show on there! ;)

~Alan

The feature was just recently added the latest build of the R15.
So I would expect it to be added to the HR20 relatively soon.

[REALLYTANGY]

You know what... I don't know.
I'll drag home a gigabit switch from work to see if it lights up the 1000 indicator.

(My home network is centered on a 100 switch)

Much appreciated EB ;)

[Alan Gordon]

The feature was just recently added the latest build of the R15.
So I would expect it to be added to the HR20 relatively soon.

Cool!! Is it by shows that you can configure, or is it by rating or channel?

This is another feature about the +DVR that I like (granted it's also a TiVo feature, but not a DirecTiVo feature)...

~Alan

[Earl Bonovich]

Cool!! Is it by shows that you can configure, or is it by rating or channel?

This is another feature about the +DVR that I like (granted it's also a TiVo feature, but not a DirecTiVo feature)...

~Alan

I am not 100% sure how it figures it out.
I think it is a hard code of the exact adult channels numbers.

When you enable it, the adult channels don't exist any more to the system.
I will have to check how it handles Recordings.... (I haven't recorded a program from those channels in a while).

The other parental controls work liek the other boxes, where you have to enter a 4 digit code to play it back... but you would still see the listings.

[ToddinVA]

The 1x, 2x, 3x are the arbitrary numbers you see on the screen.

3x on the HR20 is about the same as 3x on the DTiVos
That's what I figured, but I wanted to make sure...

Good review EB!

[directvfreak]

With this unit, do you still need to use external B-Band modules or are they inside the unit already?

[Earl Bonovich]

Okay... I am checking out for a while...
Time to go use that box a little bit tonight... instead of talking about it.

See ya in the morning (well maybe a little bit later tonight)

[Alan Gordon]

I am not 100% sure how it figures it out.
I think it is a hard code of the exact adult channels numbers.

When you enable it, the adult channels don't exist any more to the system.
I will have to check how it handles Recordings.... (I haven't recorded a program from those channels in a while).

The other parental controls work liek the other boxes, where you have to enter a 4 digit code to play it back... but you would still see the listings.

Oh, well, it's not that interesting to me if it only works with adult channels. I was hoping you could customize them a little more...

~Alan

[Earl Bonovich]

With this unit, do you still need to use external B-Band modules or are they inside the unit already?

No external B-Band moudles necessary (well... there wasn't one include, and no mention of it in the box)

[Earl Bonovich]

Oh, well, it's not that interesting to me if it only works with adult channels. I was hoping you could customize them a little more...

~Alan

It is a good suggestion though...
When we start the "suggestions" thread... be sure to post it.

[nx211]

Most certainly it could...
Since it outputs as 480i via the composite outputs...
You will be able to record on your DVD burner, or VHS Tape AND watch it in HD on your TV.

Earl, what do the component outputs send, a 480i/p or 1080i signal?

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, what do the component outputs send, a 480i or 1080i signal?

The component outputs push the output selected on the box... so 1080i if you are set to 1080i..
the composit outputs (yellow and S-Video) send 480i

[mongo]

Earl,
When recording two programs, if you try to change the channel does it ask you which of the two programs you want to stop recording, or does it only give you one choice like the HR10-250? Thanks.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl,
When recording two programs, if you try to change the channel does it ask you which of the two programs you want to stop recording, or does it only give you one choice like the HR10-250? Thanks.

The system comes up with a dialog screen... that gives you the choice of which one to cancel...

(I just tested this as i sit on the couch with the laptop)

Earl

[mcl]

Earl -
Earlier in the thread you mentioned you were going to test the unit with Vonage.
I've got Vonage and am quite interested in how well this unit performs with it, as I'm considering getting one (upgrading from my non-HD DirecTivo).

Does it successfully make the calls it needs to via Vonage? Can you order PPV content over the Vonage connection, or does it give an error like many DirecTivos tend to unless you've gotten lucky and picked a good number for the dial-in?

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl -
Earlier in the thread you mentioned you were going to test the unit with Vonage.
I've got Vonage and am quite interested in how well this unit performs with it, as I'm considering getting one (upgrading from my non-HD DirecTivo).

Does it successfully make the calls it needs to via Vonage? Can you order PPV content over the Vonage connection, or does it give an error like many DirecTivos tend to unless you've gotten lucky and picked a good number for the dial-in?

I won't be able to test it to this weekend, after my number is fully ported. I just signed up for Vonage last week

The HR20 doesn't use the phone line the same way as the TiVo did... there is one less phone call it makes... and that is the phone call that DTivos have had problems with.

I will know soon, and I will let you know.
(Aka, the phone call the HR20 makes, you don't get to pick the phone number... )


Good night all.... time for some sleep.

[Gweeto]

Earl, I have two questions I have not seen asked yet?

1) Do the HR20 have the same FF feature that the HR10-250 has where when you are fast forwarding and your show comes back and you push play it automatically skips some? This is a new and fabulous feature to me since I just go the HR10-250.

2)How fast is the Program Guide? Is it the same speed as the H20 or have they improved upon that yet?

The reason I ask is coming from non DTV stamped boxes the program guide worked extremely fast. When I got the H20 it killed us how slow it is. The only usable way we found was to use favorites and the mini guide. As a programmer also and since all boxes I have ever used in the past were fast, I don't see why they can't speed that up. I just got the HR10-250 and am praying for the 6.3 update like everyone else for a speed up.

And since you seem to be "connected", can I pass one suggestion on. Can they fix the menus and such so that if you are at the top and hit up it will roll to the bottom. Since the menus on the H20 are so slow (and I assume the HR20) it would really speed navigation up.

[BillyT2002]

It is very good news on the "first run" issues being resolved.

If in one month the the majority of posters here and on TCF can say they have not missed ANY recordings, or had to reboot or reformat the drive, then I'll probably buy one of these DVRs and use the HR10-250 I have as a backup DVR as well. However, I won't pay $400 for any DVR that is considered leased by D*. I'll play CSR roulette until I get one that will see it my way, waive the $400 fee and let me keep the HR10-250 as well. If worse comes to worse, I'll give them my decommissioned HDVR2 to take away, if they must take back a DVR.

Also, Earl - can I get the eye with red LEDs? I want the thing to look more like a Cylon when it's cycling the LEDs.

[Que]

I know but Earl hinted above that two buffers may never happen...

The why get it?? That is the BIG thing that I use! I don't need any other "spam" or something in the background download, I don't need or want. Just live TV thats it.

:(

[Que]

Earl,

You can change your signature now. :D

[TheRatPatrol]

Wow, a lot of great information here, thanks Earl!

Thanks for the info Earl, great job.
My one and only gripe seems to be it having only a single live buffer.
Any possibility of there ever being two?
It's a key to my Sunday Football viewing.

I agree...what's so hard about having two live buffers? Why leave that out? I use the two buffers a lot too....
I can’t believe this. The other thing I don’t understand is why D* doesn't have PIP on their receivers. I thought for sure D* would take a page from Ultimate TV, E* and some of the cable company boxes and offer it. It would be a nice feature to have in addition to the dual live buffers, then you can actually see whats on the other tuner.

Earl, can they add PIP with just a software update, or would this require a hardware update as well?

There will also be an interface for a telephone connection. IRDs will no longer have to have hard lines ran to them- they can "dial out" over the coax to the FTM and then get to the NID. This will be in addition to the wireless phone jacks that will be built into the next generation of standard IRDs (D12).
Does this mean that we will still need a hard wire phone line then? I really want to drop my landline.

Damn my 18-month old Plasma and it's limited inputs!
You need one of these. :D
http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm

Also Earl, do you know when the new Slimline dish will be out, the one that houses all 5 LNB's in one housing?

Thanks again!

[batguano]

Hi Earl!

Thanks for the great review! When you have a sec, could you post a photo of the remote, and perhaps tell us whether you liked or disliked the layout and functions?

Thanks!
--batguano

[Halo]

can they add PIP with just a software update, or would this require a hardware update as well?


I was looking at datasheets for some of the chips in the HR20. This seems to answer your question:


The BCM7411 supports the following decoding operations:

1 HD (MPEG-2, H.264 or VC-1) in realtime
2 SD streams (MPEG-2, H.264 or VC-1) in realtime


So it looks like the hardware is not capable of decoding two simultaneous HD streams like PIP would require.

[ajiuO]

what is the size of this?

is it 17" wide?? i hope so

[Knepster]

Earl -- you've done all of us a great service.

Small question for anyone who's been switched. Do they let you keep your old dish? Or do they take it away as a "trophy" to prove they did their job?

I'd like to put my [hopefully, soon-to-be] old P3 over on the guest house; so, visitors can receive some of the SD channels we acquired with the addition of the 3rd bird.

That was posted a long time ago (I've been out of town), but they didn't take mine, he left it on the house right where it had been, as the AT9 had to be mounted in a different place, so maybe they will leave it. I had to take mine off myself and now it's just in my garage, so if you need it PM me and it's yours for the cost of shipping. I can't imagine it would be too much from Denver to Santa Fe.


Back to topic, great review Earl, thanks for the amount of time that must have taken. I can't wait to get mine, as I can only get some local HDs via OTA, being able to record all of the big 4 networks would have won me over anyway. But after reading the review I'm even more excited.

[Knepster]

Also had a question I meant to ask. I never went to the R15, so I was wondering if the HR20 has the capability to "Autotune" as the H20 does without also recording automatically what it is switching to. Thanks again.

[Larry G]

Earl
Thanks alot for the review. I am anxiously awaiting the release of this box in my area.

[newsposter]

Nice job Earl.

I would prefer dual buffers as well, but realize that this is the ONLY HD DVR option to get new HD content from D*.

I wonder how many of the "Pry my HR 10 from my dead hands" people will be around when new HD national channels are added in '07 in MPEG4?

Now I have another forum to read each day.

you will never have to forcefully give up your HDtivo

[RAD]

I won't be able to test it to this weekend, after my number is fully ported. I just signed up for Vonage last week

The HR20 doesn't use the phone line the same way as the TiVo did... there is one less phone call it makes... and that is the phone call that DTivos have had problems with.

I will know soon, and I will let you know.
(Aka, the phone call the HR20 makes, you don't get to pick the phone number... )


Good night all.... time for some sleep.


A FYI. I had Vonage and all my other D* boxes worked OK with it (HR10-250, R15, SD-DVR40), after Vonage made a change on their end, the H20 would not. I could tell because looking at the outbound log around the first of the month there were a bunch of calls to 800 numbers being made, I kept unplugging receivers until I found the one making the calls, the H20.

[Capmeister]

Earl, thanks for adding the shots of the closed captioning. The CCing on my H20 is a bit wonky sometimes, so it's good to see it's working better on the HR20. I am more excited about this box than I thought I would be, knowing that it has a 30 second slip. I will probably wait 6 months or so, but might get one next spring. :)

[newsposter]

when did earl move to LA?

and in your review you say you only have 1 TV. I swear you've posted that you have 8-10 tivos and they can't all be hooked up to 1 tv :)

[anubys]

weird question: can you prioritize channels? so when I create the equivalent of a wish list, can I tell it to record from one channel over the other if there is a conflict?(this would work best when you have the OTA SD and HD feeds, you would automatically get the HD feed if you rate the HD channel as a higher priority.)

thanks, Earl, for the great review...

[TheRatPatrol]

I was looking at datasheets for some of the chips in the HR20. This seems to answer your question:




So it looks like the hardware is not capable of decoding two simultaneous HD streams like PIP would require.
How you can tell just by reading that that it can't support it? I guess I'm not as tech savy as you are. Does this mean you can't record 2 HD shows at the same time?

[DC_SnDvl]

This is exactly what I do all day Saturday and Sunday during the fall.

Luck for me I can receive all my locals with my HR10 so it will not be a problem this year. I hope the HMC has multiple live buffers.

Who can we complain to at D* who will not file 13 the issue?

Other than that the unit sounds good.

Often more than 2 channels are in play.
While I realize that only 2 can be buffered, often it's..
Watch Game1
Buffer Game 2
Switch from Game 1 to Game 3 for new buffer
Switch to & watch Game 2 from buffer
Find another game that is not a blowout and start a new buffer (Game 4).
Go back and watch Game 3 from buffer
and so on repeatedly as the games dictate (Sunday Ticket Rocks!!!)
Starting and stopping to make each of these bits recordings would be a pain to say the least.

That said the new unit sounds good, but I will stick with the HR10-250 for as long as I can. (I was told NYC Locals and RSNs will remain mpeg-2 for quite some time).
I can only hope that 6.3 comes along soon so I won't be envying all that's better in the HR20.

[ad301]

I haven't watched everything that has been recorded, but to date... nothing has been screwed up.
Everything that I "thought" was to record, has been recorded.
Everytihing that I "thought" was NOT going to record, hasn't recorded.

hope that answers the questions.Earl, sorry, but your limited testing so far does not answer the question of whether the scheduling logic has been fixed. It is promising that they have removed the limit on the todo list. And it's nice that you haven't yet seen any scheduling problems. But "thought" is really kind of wishy-washy, isn't it? Wolffpack's testing of the r15 in parallel with an r10 shows that what the user "thinks" should or should not be recorded is not always accurate. Especially when you throw some ARs into the mix.

I'd suggest that you initiate a parallel test with a tivo-based box, to see how accurate the scheduler is. You know someone is going to do it, it might as well be you.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, I have two questions I have not seen asked yet?

1) Do the HR20 have the same FF feature that the HR10-250 has where when you are fast forwarding and your show comes back and you push play it automatically skips some? This is a new and fabulous feature to me since I just go the HR10-250.

2)How fast is the Program Guide? Is it the same speed as the H20 or have they improved upon that yet?

The reason I ask is coming from non DTV stamped boxes the program guide worked extremely fast. When I got the H20 it killed us how slow it is. The only usable way we found was to use favorites and the mini guide. As a programmer also and since all boxes I have ever used in the past were fast, I don't see why they can't speed that up. I just got the HR10-250 and am praying for the 6.3 update like everyone else for a speed up.

And since you seem to be "connected", can I pass one suggestion on. Can they fix the menus and such so that if you are at the top and hit up it will roll to the bottom. Since the menus on the H20 are so slow (and I assume the HR20) it would really speed navigation up.

#1) No... that is called Auto-Correction, and is a TiVo patented thing... their patent for that feature is pretty exhaustive for a LOT of the ways to do it. What I do, when exiting FF, I just hit the JUMP BACK button instead of play, it works pretty good to simulate what Auto-Correction did. Then mix in the usage of the 30s SLIP....... I would still like auto-correction, but this works pretty good.

#2) The Guide is pretty quick... I will try to put a video up of it over the weekend...

Ahh as for being connected... you are too now... most of the suggestions here in this forum, are seen by the folks at DirecTV.. )

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, can they add PIP with just a software update, or would this require a hardware update as well?

Also Earl, do you know when the new Slimline dish will be out, the one that houses all 5 LNB's in one housing?


I don't know if they could do a software only solution for PIP.

As for the slimline.. no new details.

[Earl Bonovich]

what is the size of this?

is it 17" wide?? i hope so

I didn't crack out the ruler... but it is pretty darn close to 17" if it is not exactly 17.

It is the pretty darn close to the same width as my DSR704 and my HR10

[Earl Bonovich]

Also had a question I meant to ask. I never went to the R15, so I was wondering if the HR20 has the capability to "Autotune" as the H20 does without also recording automatically what it is switching to. Thanks again.


No, there is no Autotune feature...
Just think of a scheduled recording as Autotune on steroids :)

[Que]

Dual Buffers....

Ultimately it is in DirecTV's control, hence why I say "Never say Never"
But... I would have to put it higher then 90% that Dual Live Buffers, won't make it to HR20 and R15.

Sadly, I can't share the reasons why.
I agree with some of them, disagree with some of them as well.

As of this moment, I don't know of any plans to add them.
Sorry... but that is just what I know, and my gut fealing on it.

SPAM! Right??

Can you tell us what it downloads? I know it does VOD but, what else? I know it's something I don't want or even need.

I guess there is no way to turn VOD or whatever off, is there?

[Earl Bonovich]

weird question: can you prioritize channels? so when I create the equivalent of a wish list, can I tell it to record from one channel over the other if there is a conflict?(this would work best when you have the OTA SD and HD feeds, you would automatically get the HD feed if you rate the HD channel as a higher priority.)

thanks, Earl, for the great review...

I don't see a way in there to do it...
But since their is no WishLists, and SL's are assigned directly to a channel....

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, sorry, but your limited testing so far does not answer the question of whether the scheduling logic has been fixed. It is promising that they have removed the limit on the todo list. And it's nice that you haven't yet seen any scheduling problems. But "thought" is really kind of wishy-washy, isn't it? Wolffpack's testing of the r15 in parallel with an r10 shows that what the user "thinks" should or should not be recorded is not always accurate. Especially when you throw some ARs into the mix.

I'd suggest that you initiate a parallel test with a tivo-based box, to see how accurate the scheduler is. You know someone is going to do it, it might as well be you.


Limited as it is... some of the most problimatic ones from the R15 have been working correctly... Such as Stargate, Good Eats, plus a lot of my recordings are set to first runs... such as the 3 CSI's, the 3 L&Os, Desperate House Wifes, My Name is Earl, Office... none of them have recorded a repeat yet.

And the daily shows (such as Days of Our lives) hasn't missed one (or my wife would kill me)

The big test will be in a few weeks when most of those shows start to air new episodes.

I will try to setup my HR10-250 (while I still have it) to correspond to the HR20 and see what I get.