What's the differences betwen the HR10-250 and the HR20-700

[Earl Bonovich]

Okay... no, I don't have your answer yet... but do this for me...

Please list the features of the HR10, that you want me to compare..
Over the next few days, I will go through them, and give you the comperable HR20 feature..., or if there isn't one. and vice versa (at least for features of the HR20 that the HR10 can't)

This isn't ment to be a "bash" the TiVo product thread... this is to be an objective comparison of feature sets.

And it will NOT become a "bash" either of the products...

[Herdfan]

Simple. The most important function of a DVR is to:

1) Record what you ask it to and although much less important,

2) Don't record things you haven't ask it to.

The TiVo is rock solid when it comes to recording Season passes as you tell it to. How is the HR20?

1) Does it record First-runs or just record every episode?

2) Does it miss recording episodes you request? (Huge)

3) Does it have a priority list, and does it follow it?


At the end of the day, I could give a flip about all the other neat features it has if I sit down to watch LOST, and it hasn't recorded it.

[AstroDad]

Thanks for starting this thread Earl. To tell the truth, I am not sure exactly what info I am looking for and from your post there must not be anything huge that sticks out.

I guess off the top of my head...

1) what are our choices for searching for a program? The HR10 can search by Title, Time, Channel, etc...any extras or anything left out for the HR20?

2) Do wishlists operate essentially the same? Can you still do a wishlist by actor, theme, etc....?

3) Have any of the programs you have a "Season Pass" (what is it called on the HR20?) for, does the HR20 seem to update any schedule changes quickly as the TiVo (usually) does?

4) As far as the trick play, does it jump back a few seconds when you stop as the TiVos do?

5) Why is the estimated record time for HD for the HR20 30 hours for mpeg2 (same as the HR10) when the hard drive is larger? Is that due to the increased live buffer?

I'll post more if I think of them...

If you covered any of this in your review, please don't hesitate to refer me back there. I know you have put a lot of time into this and I don't want to take up to much of it repeating yourself. I did read the review, but it was a lot of info and ever since I had kids my brain leaks :)

[Clint Lamor]

Simple. The most important function of a DVR is to:

1) Record what you ask it to and although much less important,

2) Don't record things you haven't ask it to.

The TiVo is rock solid when it comes to recording Season passes as you tell it to. How is the HR20?

1) Does it record First-runs or just record every episode?

2) Does it miss recording episodes you request? (Huge)

3) Does it have a priority list, and does it follow it?


At the end of the day, I could give a flip about all the other neat features it has if I sit down to watch LOST, and it hasn't recorded it.


I thought that was in the review?

[Herdfan]

I thought that was in the review?
Maybe I need to go back and reread it. I skipped through fairly quickly.

[AstroDad]

Maybe I need to go back and reread it. I skipped through fairly quickly.

I believe most of it was. From what Earl said, it has been solid in these respects and does have a priority list

[Earl Bonovich]

Simple. The most important function of a DVR is to:

1) Record what you ask it to and although much less important,

2) Don't record things you haven't ask it to.

The TiVo is rock solid when it comes to recording Season passes as you tell it to. How is the HR20?

1) Does it record First-runs or just record every episode?

2) Does it miss recording episodes you request? (Huge)

3) Does it have a priority list, and does it follow it?


At the end of the day, I could give a flip about all the other neat features it has if I sit down to watch LOST, and it hasn't recorded it.

Only time will be the real test for this, but I can tell you from what I have experienced since having it.

1) The FIRST RUN logic appears so far to be perfect...
2) As of right now... I have not identified a program that was supposed to record, that hasn't.
3) Yes, it does follow the priority list...

It has ONLY recorded the items I have told it to record...

[ebockelman]

Things I want to know about:

1. The ability to reimage onto a bigger hard drive (since the external SATA is not active). (Can you pop the drive in a PC and see if it's even a standard FS type?)

2. Boot time vs. the HR10

3. Soft/hard padding options

4. I would really like to see conflict resolution tested. Get creative on this one. One specific I would like to see is to create a three-way tuner conflict. Set two season passes (equivalent) on the HR20. Set a manual recording on the same timeslot. Check to see which season pass recording cancels. Delete the manual recording entry and see if the season pass entry comes back.

That's it for now - I'm sure I'll come up with more later.

[Earl Bonovich]

Things I want to know about:

1. The ability to reimage onto a bigger hard drive (since the external SATA is not active). (Can you pop the drive in a PC and see if it's even a standard FS type?)

2. Boot time vs. the HR10

3. Soft/hard padding options

4. I would really like to see conflict resolution tested. Get creative on this one. One specific I would like to see is to create a three-way tuner conflict. Set two season passes (equivalent) on the HR20. Set a manual recording on the same timeslot. Check to see which season pass recording cancels. Delete the manual recording entry and see if the season pass entry comes back.

That's it for now - I'm sure I'll come up with more later.

#1) .... more on that at a later time.... I have heard of some "good" things, but I need to test them... when I get my second box (when ever that may be), and can get my hands on a larger SATA drive.

#2) ... I would give the edge on boot time to teh HR20.... not by much, but the HR20 does appear to be faster.

#3) ... It has the standard add more recording time to the end, add more recording time to the start... It doesn't have NEGATIVE padding, aka... you can't tell it to record late, or end early.... no automatic padding like the UTV had

#4) With the HR20... if you create a "conflic" you are ASKED which conflicting program you want to program. It doesn't arbitrarily pick. (the same goes for the R15)

I will have to check to see if the canceled program comes back into play if you delete the conflicting one.

[AstroDad]

Earl did you miss my post?

[ad301]

2) Do wishlists operate essentially the same? Can you still do a wishlist by actor, theme, etc....?The r15 does NOT do wishlists. It has a search function which is a limited subset of the tivo WL functionality, and which is also rather buggy. There are a number of threads in the r15 section about this. The bottom line is that if you are a user of tivo WLs to any extent other than the most casual and occasional use, you will find the r15 Search function to be completely inadequate. (And I'm trying to be as polite as I can.)

Earl has already reported, unfortunately, that the hr20 does not seem to have any obvious improvements over the r15 in this area.

[Earl Bonovich]

Sorry... just didn't work my way back to it:

Thanks for starting this thread Earl. To tell the truth, I am not sure exactly what info I am looking for and from your post there must not be anything huge that sticks out.

I guess off the top of my head...

1) what are our choices for searching for a program? The HR10 can search by Title, Time, Channel, etc...any extras or anything left out for the HR20?

2) Do wishlists operate essentially the same? Can you still do a wishlist by actor, theme, etc....?

3) Have any of the programs you have a "Season Pass" (what is it called on the HR20?) for, does the HR20 seem to update any schedule changes quickly as the TiVo (usually) does?

4) As far as the trick play, does it jump back a few seconds when you stop as the TiVos do?

5) Why is the estimated record time for HD for the HR20 30 hours for mpeg2 (same as the HR10) when the hard drive is larger? Is that due to the increased live buffer?

I'll post more if I think of them...

If you covered any of this in your review, please don't hesitate to refer me back there. I know you have put a lot of time into this and I don't want to take up to much of it repeating yourself. I did read the review, but it was a lot of info and ever since I had kids my brain leaks :)

1) It has most of the same options... but I will have to wait to get home to list them.

2) Wishlists is a patent of TiVo... the HR20 "kinda" has a similar feature (but it definently isn't the same), but I have tested to any extent. It works similar to the R15 version, but hopefully with some more consistancy then it's sibling... I will test this soon.

3) Series Links is what they are called.... The HR20 (As the R15), puts it's guide into memory... it is constantly watching the incomming guide data stream for changes. I have noticed (at least on the R15), that information makes it there faster then it does on the TiVo system. I haven't had a chance to test it with the HR20, and probably won't until some of the fall TV seasons get closer.

The HR20 (and I think the R15), process SL requests in a background process. So when you add SL's and remove them, they don't immediately appear. From what I can tell... the unit will take care immediately of stuff that is in the next 12 - 24 hours, when you put the change in.... then when the background process kicks in (usually sometime in the next few hours), it takes care of the rest.

4) No... That is another one of TiVo's patents (and it is a pretty extensive patent covering a lot of different ways to do it). The best you can do, is hit the JUMP BACK button to come out of FF... it works pretty good in the HR20. I also have been fond of just using the 30s SLIP feature to get through most commercials... 6 presses and covers most standard commercial brakes.
(It is called AutoCorrection)

5) The HR20 has a little bit of space for itself... the 50gb... but then again, the estimates are just that... estimates... you could probably get a little more in there, but in general the MPEG-2 recording space is going to be the same.

[toddrohner]

If you set up a season pass that allows repeats and reruns -

Tivo season pass will not record an episode that it has recorded in the previous 90 days. Any idea about the HR20?

[Earl Bonovich]

Actually the TiVo won't record it if it is in the last 28days (called the 28 day rule).

Unless that has changed in the SA models.

As for the HR20.

Right now, I KNOW it won't record it again, if it is still in your MyVod (Aka on your hard drive)... that is the same as the R15.

I haven't purposely tested it to see if has a 28day logic like the TiVo products do.

[stuart628]

when atsc is up and running, I would love to know how the OTA tuner is running! and how much better it is! (I have a few stations I lost when I got my HDDVR.)

[gglockner]

1. When a program is marked "Save until space needed", how do you know which programs are in danger of being deleted?

2. Can you set the HR20 to record from a particular channel? (E.g. I prefer to record from PBS OTA-HD channel rather than the SD channel from the satellite)?

3. With a season pass, will the HR20 record all the episodes from all channels? For example, I want to record The Simpsons on Fox, but I don't want to record the syndicated versions on my local independent channel.

4. How does it manage repeats with programs with little description? Ex: Jeopardy or kiddie programs. In both cases, I want to keep just the most recent episodes, ex: keep the latest 2 episodes of Jeopardy.

[Earl Bonovich]

gglocker:

1) BIG YELLOW exclemation mark... you can't miss it.
2) I can't test it specifically for OTA, but you can set your SL's based on a specific channel
3) See #2
4) From what I can tell, and have been told... it is using a blend of the repeat flag and the first air date.

[msmith]

One feature that I really like from the Tivo is Suggestions. It pays attention to what I like and then records things that I might like. I watch probably 30-4% of my shows from Suggestions.

I suspect we don't get it now, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Does it have keys to jump to specific spots in the menus? Kinda like hitting the Tivo button takes you right to Now Playing?

(BTW - a picture of the remote would be nice in the review)

[Earl Bonovich]

Msmith...

Tivo Suggestions, their patent... their feature.
There is nothing like it in the HR20 (or the R15)

"Skip To Tic"
That feature is not on the HR20 and has been a highly requested feature on the R15 (especially from my wife)

As for the remote.
It is the standard RC24 (same as the RC23 but with RF) remote.
You can see a picture of that on DirecTV.com

They have been using that remote for about 2+ years now.

[gglockner]

As for the remote.
It is the standard RC24 (same as the RC23 but with RF) remote.


Is it RF-only or does it work via IR? I use a Home Theater Master MX-700 universal remote which is IR only.

[Earl Bonovich]

The RC24 works in both IR and RF modes.

[VLaslow]

Earl,

You did a great review of the unit! I'm looking forward to mine.

I may have missed it, but

1. Is there an indication of how much disk space is available (or taken)?

2. My HR10-250 is VERY slow (like everyone's) to schedule a recording. How "quick" is the HR20?

Thanks.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl,

You did a great review of the unit! I'm looking forward to mine.

I may have missed it, but

1. Is there an indication of how much disk space is available (or taken)?

2. My HR10-250 is VERY slow (like everyone's) to schedule a recording. How "quick" is the HR20?

Thanks.

1) Yes there is a graphic bar (similar to that on the R15)... that will represent how full it is... it is right in the MyVod area (where you get your list of recorded programs)... It is graphical and will tell you a percentage.
2) Nearly instant... well okay maybe a second, but in generall... very very fast.

[Poochie]

Hello, can you say how far in advance one can look in the electronic program guide to schedule recordings?

[dswallow]

1) How about two Series Links -- of the same series on an SD channel and an HD channel; will it record both or will it consider them to be the same program and thus only record one of them?

2) Create a Series Link for a series on some cable channel that repeats the program often. Then schedule an explicit recording for the showing of the episode AFTER the first time that episode airs. Does the Series Link record the first airing of the episode or does it ignore it since there's an explicit scheduled recording of another airing of the same episode -- or does it perhaps record both?


On the topic of suggestions -- what DirecTV needs to implement is a way to schedule a program recording online -- via the local network, not necessarily via DirecTV's web page and then transmitting that to the unit; then that provides a ay for third parties to create suggestion-like features that'd run on the PC and schedule the recordings on the various DVR's.

For most of the summer I've been quite dependent on suggestions for something to watch. It'd absolutely be something I'd notice not having anymore. :)

[harsh]

5) The HR20 has a little bit of space for itself... the 50gb...Can you say VOD?

[anubys]

this is a very basic question:

can I record two things at the same time while watching a third (recorded, of course)?

[KCWolfPck]

this is a very basic question:

can I record two things at the same time while watching a third (recorded, of course)?

Yes

[frogg]

How about guide and channel changing speed? As compared to H20-600?

[FrozenMetalHead]

I'm not familiar at all with the R15 - only DirecTivos. And of course, sorry if I've missed this in the review or elsewhere. Does the HR20 automatically record suggestions for you? Does it derive these suggestions based on shows you record? Does it have a similar "thumbs up / thumbs down" mechanism, and do they affect your suggestions?

Thanks.

[newsposter]

suggestions = tivo only sorry

[Jacquelyn]

First things first....Thanks Earl

Now my first question....Can the Hard Drive storage be upgraded?


I have been waiting to find out the functionality of this unit to decide on a new AV Receiver. I am thrilled that all video outputs operate simultaneously. I currently have to switch to 480i to see TiVo on Slingbox or in the bedroom.

But I'm not moving completely from TiVo anytime soon. I have.....
3 HDTiVos with upgraded storage
1 HDTivo Stock
3 SD TiVos with upgraded storage

I am a big TiVo fan. My first TiVo was a 14 hr that was around $1k. I bought my first HD TV when the HDTiVo was released (if you couldn't "TiVo" it I wasn't interested:) ). I am unhappy that DirecTV decided to sever its relationship with TiVo. I'm not thrilled that I will lose one buffer. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

My problem will be the HAF. My husband wants DirecTV channels in HD, but is NOT into change. Not looking forward to living through the learning curve:)

[Earl Bonovich]

First things first....Thanks Earl

Now my first question....Can the Hard Drive storage be upgraded?


Ah... a woman after my own heart.. :)

As for the Hard Drive... I was told it "should" be very easy to do...
But since I don't have access to a 500gb SATA (or 750gb, or even the 1TB) I haven't tried it yet.

[Earl Bonovich]

How about guide and channel changing speed? As compared to H20-600?

Changing channels is slower then the H20...
Mostly because the buffer resets and has to start recording on that new channel.

DVRs really are not for "quick channel surfing".
I would say it is faster then the HR10 though on that front.

The guide is pretty quick.... don't have my H20-600 hooked up right now, so I can't test it for exact comparisons.

[Jacquelyn]

Thanks for the quick reply Earl.

Assuming Weaknees (or others) can do their magic....will DirecTV allow me to upgrade (trade in) a HR10-250 that has been modified?

We currently get HD locals OTA. My original plan was to get one of the new units and use exclusively for what HR10-250 couldn't receive.

Now with this review (primarially the simultaneous outputs and increased speed) I'm beginning to think I might replace more than one HR10-250.

One more question. I tried to find out when Houston will go to Mpeg4 locals. I can never find anything on the DirecTV website. Would you mind posting a link or giving me instructions to find the information?

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks for the quick reply Earl.

Assuming Weaknees (or others) can do their magic....will DirecTV allow me to upgrade (trade in) a HR10-250 that has been modified?

We currently get HD locals OTA. My original plan was to get one of the new units and use exclusively for what HR10-250 couldn't receive.

Now with this review (primarially the simultaneous outputs and increased speed) I'm beginning to think I might replace more than one HR10-250.

One more question. I tried to find out when Houston will go to Mpeg4 locals. I can never find anything on the DirecTV website. Would you mind posting a link or giving me instructions to find the information?

You might not even need Weakness to do the upgrade.... time will tell.

As for an "Upgraded" HR10-250... you will probably be better off trying to sell it via EBAY.... the stock ones catch a good price, already upgrades ones should do pretty good to.

As for Houston locals... They are allready up.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54698

[Reggie3]

Earl - Thanks for posting all the info and answering everyones questions. A lot of work on your part and it is greatly appreciated.

My question concerns the XM channels. The HR10-250 only shows the music information for about 20 minutes and then you have to hit the info button to view the artist and title. My old Sony receiver (HD200) always displayed this info.

How does the HR20 handle this? TIA

[Wolffpack]

Earl,

#1) Does the info screen on the HR20 contain more info such as what's available on DTivos or is it limited as on the R15?

#2) Have you tried any recordings using Keep at Most and Keep Until as we've discussed in the R15 forum?
Tivo:

KAM=3, KU=Disk is Full (results I have the latest three shows recorded)
KAM=3, KU=I Delete (results I get three shows recorded and it stops recording more until I delete one)

R15:

KAM=3, KU=Disk is Full (results I have the latest three shows recorded)
KAM=3, KU=I Delete (results I have the latest three shows recorded)

I'm trying to determine if this is a bug on the R15 or if it's really designed to do the same thing.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl - Thanks for posting all the info and answering everyones questions. A lot of work on your part and it is greatly appreciated.

My question concerns the XM channels. The HR10-250 only shows the music information for about 20 minutes and then you have to hit the info button to view the artist and title. My old Sony receiver (HD200) always displayed this info.

How does the HR20 handle this? TIA

I will check it tonight... or this weekend...

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl,

#1) Does the info screen on the HR20 contain more info such as what's available on DTivos or is it limited as on the R15?

#2) Have you tried any recordings using Keep at Most and Keep Until as we've discussed in the R15 forum?
Tivo:

KAM=3, KU=Disk is Full (results I have the latest three shows recorded)
KAM=3, KU=I Delete (results I get three shows recorded and it stops recording more until I delete one)

R15:

KAM=3, KU=Disk is Full (results I have the latest three shows recorded)
KAM=3, KU=I Delete (results I have the latest three shows recorded)

I'm trying to determine if this is a bug on the R15 or if it's really designed to do the same thing.

The "INFO" is about the same as the R15's... I don't have an R15 in the main room with it, so I can do a quick compare... but nothing jumps out on the HR20 to tell me it is VASTLY different.

I will try the KU logic very soon.... as I have to start to KEEP some of my son's favorite shows, so I can pull the plug on my DSR704

[Jacquelyn]

You might not even need Weakness to do the upgrade.... time will tell.

Like maybe DirecTV will offer external storage? That woud make my day. But, my cabinet's pretty full. In addition to the TiVos I have:
2 AV Receivers
1 HD Component selector
1 SD S Video selector
2 sling boxes
1 Sony 200 DVD/CD Player
1 LG DVD recorder with hard drive
1 DLink media lounge

They are making external storage smaller all the time. Maybe even "about the size of a remote":)

Another question that is vital to my setup...Can the remote (I'll so miss my beloved peanut) operate multiple units in the same room? If so, how many?

[heathramos]

I probably missed reading about this but...

does the HR20 have Video on Demand and/or has nteractive features?

Just trying to figure out, besides the functionality of the dvr and the mpeg4 differences, what else is there?

[Earl Bonovich]

Like maybe DirecTV will offer external storage?
Another question that is vital to my setup...Can the remote (I'll so miss my beloved peanut) operate multiple units in the same room? If so, how many?

A single remote, should be able to control TWO units.

[Earl Bonovich]

I probably missed reading about this but...

does the HR20 have Video on Demand and/or has nteractive features?

Just trying to figure out, besides the functionality of the dvr and the mpeg4 differences, what else is there?

VOD is an expected future feature... it is part of DirecTV's plans.

The HR20 has all the current DirecTV Interactive features

[mbuser]

#1) It doesn't have NEGATIVE padding, aka... you can't tell it to record late, or end early.

That's a shame. That feature would have been great for those idiotic series that extend a couple of minutes past the normal time, especially being able to start late. First couple of minutes are mostly commercials anyway.

[Jacquelyn]

A single remote, should be able to control TWO units.

So what would my work around be?

I currently use Pronto for switching between devices and the (beloved) peanut for TiVos. I've been thinking of switching to the Harmony.

Is the limitation in the remote/DVR itself or in the codes. Can I use a pronto or harmony to control more than two and still have RF ability (via the pronto/harmony)?

Thanks again for all your help

[ad301]

As for the Hard Drive... I was told it "should" be very easy to do...
But since I don't have access to a 500gb SATA (or 750gb, or even the 1TB) I haven't tried it yet.This sounds like very big news, and quite a change from the r15. Are you saying that a user may be able to simply swap out the hard drive and install a much bigger one? And the hr20 will recognize all the additional storage space?

[heathramos]

VOD is an expected future feature... it is part of DirecTV's plans.

The HR20 has all the current DirecTV Interactive features

I have two HR10-250's right now and was considering switching one out for the HR20. Not sure now.

So...in your opinion, once the HR10-250 gets the upgrade (faster and folders), why would someone go with the HR20 if they are getting the locals okay with an antenna?

It is an easy decision once Directv adds national HD channels in mpeg4 and/or VOD but I can't see a huge benefit for me, especially since I am using diplexers with my antenna and would have to run new lines.

[Earl Bonovich]

So what would my work around be?

I currently use Pronto for switching between devices and the (beloved) peanut for TiVos. I've been thinking of switching to the Harmony.

Is the limitation in the remote/DVR itself or in the codes. Can I use a pronto or harmony to control more than two and still have RF ability (via the pronto/harmony)?

Thanks again for all your help

You probably "could" control THREE units.. if you mix in RF

1 on RF
1 on DirecTV mode
1 on AUX1 mode

The problem is in the IR set... there are only two codes that the box will listen to.

[walters]

This sounds like very big news, and quite a change from the r15. Are you saying that a user may be able to simply swap out the hard drive and install a much bigger one? And the hr20 will recognize all the additional storage space?

I doubt they're thinking "swap" (they still don't really want you inside the case), but there is that external SATA connector.

[Earl Bonovich]

I have two HR10-250's right now and was considering switching one out for the HR20. Not sure now.

So...in your opinion, once the HR10-250 gets the upgrade (faster and folders), why would someone go with the HR20 if they are getting the locals okay with an antenna?

It is an easy decision once Directv adds national HD channels in mpeg4 and/or VOD but I can't see a huge benefit for me, especially since I am using diplexers with my antenna and would have to run new lines.

If you don't have a need for:
1) Interactive
2) Simultaneous Outputs
3) MPEG-4

Then right now... at the core... HR10-250 (6.3) ~ HR20

I mean there are a lot of other factors, but if you already have HR10's... then there is no glarring reason to jump to the HR20, if some of added features don't intrest you... and certainly not, until the OTA tuners are enabled.

[pappys]

This sounds like very big news, and quite a change from the r15. Are you saying that a user may be able to simply swap out the hard drive and install a much bigger one? And the hr20 will recognize all the additional storage space?


From what I read and saw, you just add the hard drive via the eSATA card slot on the back of the machine.

[Earl Bonovich]

Right now the eSATA slot isn't active yet.

[Jacquelyn]

You probably "could" control THREE units.. if you mix in RF

1 on RF
1 on DirecTV mode
1 on AUX1 mode

The problem is in the IR set... there are only two codes that the box will listen to.

Wow. I finally wrap my mind around the fact that if we want football and HD we have to leave TiVo. Now something as simple as remote codes is going to make that difficult(impossible?).

All my TiVos are in one cabinet with hardwired IR control to three other rooms. It's only the two of us so locating the hardware in dedicated rooms wouldn't help us.

Having fewer DVRs wouldn't work either. Even if I could get around the storage limitations I wouldn't have enough tuners.

I haven't used a DirecTV GUI or remote since TiVo came out. I've seen employees in sports bars (with DirecTV) walk around with a remote pointed directly at one receiver, then the next, then the next to change the channels. I always thought "why don't they set up a better way".

I guess now I know why...

[ad301]

I doubt they're thinking "swap" (they still don't really want you inside the case), but there is that external SATA connector.
From what I read and saw, you just add the hard drive via the eSATA card slot on the back of the machine.
Right now the eSATA slot isn't active yet.OK guys, my bad. I got it now. :)

[dswallow]

Wow. I finally wrap my mind around the fact that if we want football and HD we have to leave TiVo. Now something as simple as remote codes is going to make that difficult(impossible?).

All my TiVos are in one cabinet with hardwired IR control to three other rooms. It's only the two of us so locating the hardware in dedicated rooms wouldn't help us.

Having fewer DVRs wouldn't work either. Even if I could get around the storage limitations I wouldn't have enough tuners.

I haven't used a DirecTV GUI or remote since TiVo came out. I've seen employees in sports bars (with DirecTV) walk around with a remote pointed directly at one receiver, then the next, then the next to change the channels. I always thought "why don't they set up a better way".

I guess now I know why...
There are universal remotes that can route IR commands to specific devices; in other words you can place an IR emitter that's connected to a separate output at each DVR and program the universal remote to generate the IR code on the specific emitter so you can have multiple devices in the same cabinet using the same IR commands controlled individually by a Universal RF remote.

Look at the MRF-250 (http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mrf250) and MRF-300 (http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mrf300) devices from Universal Remote Control; they work with the MX-series remote controls to provide IR routing for up to 6 different channels.

[Wolffpack]

Wow. I finally wrap my mind around the fact that if we want football and HD we have to leave TiVo.
You shouldn't have to leave Tivo for football and HD. At least not this year.

As you get your locals OTA your HR10s will work just fine for NFLST in HD. I'd guess by next season they will switch the NFL feeds from MPEG2 to MPEG4 which will then require the new HR20. But for now you should be OK.

[Jacquelyn]

There are universal remotes that can route IR commands to specific devices; in other words you can place an IR emitter that's connected to a separate output at each DVR and program the universal remote to generate the IR code on the specific emitter so you can have multiple devices in the same cabinet using the same IR commands controlled individually by a Universal RF remote.

Look at the MRF-250 (http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mrf250) and MRF-300 (http://www.universalremote.com/products/index.php?item=mrf300) devices from Universal Remote Control; they work with the MX-series remote controls to provide IR routing for up to 6 different channels.

Thanks Doug! I'll check it out.

[Poochie]

Dear Earl,

Can you say how far in advance one can look in the electronic program guide to schedule recordings?

[Earl Bonovich]

Dear Earl,

Can you say how far in advance one can look in the electronic program guide to schedule recordings?

Once it fully loads (takes about 20-24 hours after a restart)
You get ~14 Days... sometimes a little less, some times a little more... but in generall..... 14 Days

And the Guide will allow you to jump directly to a date and time.

You also have options to scroll by 1 hour increments... or 12 hour increments

[ad301]

There are universal remotes that can route IR commands to specific devices....Thanks Doug, that is *very* useful information.

[Poochie]

Thank you so much.

[WynsWrld98]

Any chance of you doing a comparison of HDTV and SDTV picture quality via HDMI between the HR10 and HR20?

[Earl Bonovich]

I won't be able to....

As my HDMI connection on my HR10-250 hasn't worked since the day I got this particular one (I had to replace my original because of a hard drive failure, and then an HDMI, then I gave up... just used component since)

[Drew2k]

1) How about two Series Links -- of the same series on an SD channel and an HD channel; will it record both or will it consider them to be the same program and thus only record one of them?

2) Create a Series Link for a series on some cable channel that repeats the program often. Then schedule an explicit recording for the showing of the episode AFTER the first time that episode airs. Does the Series Link record the first airing of the episode or does it ignore it since there's an explicit scheduled recording of another airing of the same episode -- or does it perhaps record both?

Earl,

I'm very interested in hearing your answers to these questions, as they would go a long way to satisfy curiosity on the reliability of the HR20 to record the intended programs without having to baby-sit the To Do list.

I'm also curious to know how the following scneario would be handled:

You have a Series Link for a premium content show, like Deadwood on HBO. The next airing is "today" at 9 PM, and you have a different series link set to record on the other tuner "today" at the same time. While looking at the guide "today" you notice a one-time-only special on at 9 PM, and you choose to record it from the guide, intending for Deadwood to be bumped. Since it's a premium channel, Deadwood will repeat multiple times in the next week. Does the HR20 gracefully reschedule Deadwood on its own, knowing there are future upcoming showings of the same title, or does the HR20 prompt you which recording to cancel? If you cancel Deadwood for "today at 9", does the HR20 automatically detect the next showing of the same title or do you have to manually set up the next recording of Deadwood?

Thanks.

[Drew2k]

You probably "could" control THREE units.. if you mix in RF

1 on RF
1 on DirecTV mode
1 on AUX1 mode

The problem is in the IR set... there are only two codes that the box will listen to.Earl, is this a hardware limitation that only two sets of IR codes can be detected, or software?

If it's software, could you kindly pass along to your contacts a suggestion to send a software update to expand the number of IR sets that the HR20 can handle?

Like others have posted, I have multiple TiVos in one room, each set with its own remote ID. If I replaced all my TiVos, which is what DirecTV wants (you know it's true!), I would prefer simply assigning a unique remote-ID to each unit instead of being forced to rewire my house or purchasing special IR emitters as Doug suggested.

Thanks.


P.S. Since I did mention it above, I'll say that if DirecTV really wants to win over the HR10- TiVo users, they should go out of their way with the HR20 to match and even exceed what the TiVo units are capable of. Multiple remote-IDs to me should have been a consideration right from the start... (and don't get me started on ARWL's!)

[AstroDad]

I won't be able to....

As my HDMI connection on my HR10-250 hasn't worked since the day I got this particular one (I had to replace my original because of a hard drive failure, and then an HDMI, then I gave up... just used component since)

geez, you ain't good for much, are ya?

;) :lol: :p

[Wolffpack]

You have a Series Link for a premium content show, like Deadwood on HBO. The next airing is "today" at 9 PM, and you have a different series link set to record on the other tuner "today" at the same time. While looking at the guide "today" you notice a one-time-only special on at 9 PM, and you choose to record it from the guide, intending for Deadwood to be bumped. Since it's a premium channel, Deadwood will repeat multiple times in the next week. Does the HR20 gracefully reschedule Deadwood on its own, knowing there are future upcoming showings of the same title, or does the HR20 prompt you which recording to cancel? If you cancel Deadwood for "today at 9", does the HR20 automatically detect the next showing of the same title or do you have to manually set up the next recording of Deadwood?
Speaking from the R15 side it will record the next airing of Deadwood if it misses the first one....most every time I've seen/caused this to happen. I would guess the HR20 will do as well if not better.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl, is this a hardware limitation that only two sets of IR codes can be detected, or software?

If it's software, could you kindly pass along to your contacts a suggestion to send a software update to expand the number of IR sets that the HR20 can handle?

Like others have posted, I have multiple TiVos in one room, each set with its own remote ID. If I replaced all my TiVos, which is what DirecTV wants (you know it's true!), I would prefer simply assigning a unique remote-ID to each unit instead of being forced to rewire my house or purchasing special IR emitters as Doug suggested.

Thanks.


P.S. Since I did mention it above, I'll say that if DirecTV really wants to win over the HR10- TiVo users, they should go out of their way with the HR20 to match and even exceed what the TiVo units are capable of. Multiple remote-IDs to me should have been a consideration right from the start... (and don't get me started on ARWL's!)


I doubt it is a "hardware" thing, except for the remotes are not upgradeable.
I think having more then 2 in the same room, is going to be the exception more then the rule.

And with HMC comming sometime next year hopefully... that is product target for the REALLY hard core TV people.

[sseong]

I just finish talked to one of CSR. She was confused as we were in this form..
She heard all this free swap talk but she assured that there is no free swap deal at the moment...

While we are talking she recieved a memo saying it is $299 for existing customer instead of $399... and confirmed that that's also incorrect memo and it is $399...

So I end up signing up for watch deal email list... I'm goning to wait a while to see if there will be better deal than $399...

I think I talked to the office in LA... or whoever covers in LA... but she said "there is no swap option and no special deal. I would wait a bit more since it is released yesterday, there will be better deal in near future..."

She asked where I got these information and I told her dbstalk.com... and told her here is a review about HR20 already by Earl... and she was in shock... she didn't even saw the unit yet...

Anyway, that's my pleasant 20 minute talk with DirevcTV CSR and disappointed result...

[Earl Bonovich]

Anyway, that's my pleasant 20 minute talk with DirevcTV CSR and disappointed result...

Call back tomorrow... as you can see from the other thread... plenty of people are getting the unit ordered and scheduled for installs.

[ad301]

And with HMC comming sometime next year hopefully... that is product target for the REALLY hard core TV people.Maybe that will have a better Search function.

[MarkBarbieri]

1) Can I remove channels from the guide that I don't like?

2) How far into the future can I search?

3) Are there any lipsync issues?

4) Any idea how much power it consumes?

5) Are your recorded shows listed in folders?

6) Is there a single button that gets you to your list of recorded shows?

[anubys]

1) Can I remove channels from the guide that I don't like?

2) How far into the future can I search?

3) Are there any lipsync issues?

4) Any idea how much power it consumes?

5) Are your recorded shows listed in folders?

6) Is there a single button that gets you to your list of recorded shows?

I don't have one but have seen the answer to a few of these...Earl, you can correct me if I'm wrong :)

1. yes.
2. 14 days
3. don't know
4. don't know
5. yes.
6. don't know

[harsh]

You shouldn't have to leave Tivo for football and HD. At least not this year.Unless you're relying on HD LiL for some of your football games.

[Wolffpack]

Unless you're relying on HD LiL for some of your football games.
Correct, but IIRC the OP stated they receive OTA just fine.

[Wolffpack]

1) Can I remove channels from the guide that I don't like?

2) How far into the future can I search?

3) Are there any lipsync issues?

4) Any idea how much power it consumes?

5) Are your recorded shows listed in folders?

6) Is there a single button that gets you to your list of recorded shows?
To fill in what hasn't been answered:

3) There are reported problems with some local HD MPEG4 signals. Search on lip sync in the HD forum.

6) Yes, single button to see recorded shows (MYVOD) but a two button press to get to the guide.

[jabroni]

Changing channels is slower then the H20...
Mostly because the buffer resets and has to start recording on that new channel.





Wow, not good news. It takes my H20 about 4 to 5 seconds to change the channel to any mpeg4 channel. Sometimes I wonder if the channel will ever appear!

[pappys]

Wow, not good news. It takes my H20 about 4 to 5 seconds to change the channel to any mpeg4 channel. Sometimes I wonder if the channel will ever appear!

If you have it set to "native" resolution on your setup menu, then you will have it flicker until it find the right source. i.e. 480-1080i

If you want it to change quicker, turn off the native function.

[Earl Bonovich]

Wow, not good news. It takes my H20 about 4 to 5 seconds to change the channel to any mpeg4 channel. Sometimes I wonder if the channel will ever appear!

Okay... then I would say it is faster.

At worst I think it takes 1 or 2 seconds... but it is not the same for every channel...

But then again, I don't channel surf that much either.

[bonscott87]

If you have it set to "native" resolution on your setup menu, then you will have it flicker until it find the right source. i.e. 480-1080i

If you want it to change quicker, turn off the native function.

Or at the least remove resolutions that you don't want or care about. If it is indeed searching for a resolution the perhaps only leave 480i and 1080i active (assuming you have a 1080i set). Then it only has 2 to choose from.

[jabroni]

It is set at 1080. This setting does not seem to have any bearing upon the slowness. I wonder if the issue is due to the added complexity of the 5 LNB switch?

[cabanaboy1977]

#1) .... more on that at a later time.... I have heard of some "good" things, but I need to test them... when I get my second box (when ever that may be), and can get my hands on a larger SATA drive.

Does that mean that they will extend that to the R15 too?


#3) ... It has the standard add more recording time to the end, add more recording time to the start... It doesn't have NEGATIVE padding, aka... you can't tell it to record late, or end early.... no automatic padding like the UTV had


I really miss that. I hope they add that on the HR20 and the R15 at some point.

[Earl Bonovich]

Does that mean that they will extend that to the R15 too?

I really miss that. I hope they add that on the HR20 and the R15 at some point.

I don't know if it "actually' works on the HR20 or not.....
Plus mix in the whole... it's a leased box and everything... hopefully it does, but until it is confirmed.... Rumor rating of a 3 out of 5 :D

As for negative padding.... it would be a nice addition.
I did notice though on my stargate recording last night.

Atlantis did have the Preview for next weeks SG-1 on it...
And SG-1 also had it at the end of it's recording... so for a few momements at least... both programs where recording the same channel.

[Reggie3]

Earl

Don't forget my question on the XM channels display banner. Does is stay on for longer than the 20 minutes the HD TiVo limits.


Thanks

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl
Don't forget my question on the XM channels display banner. Does is stay on for longer than the 20 minutes the HD TiVo limits.

Thanks

I'm testing it right now... my "guess" is that in a few minutes the DirecTV screen saver kicks in (that is what happens on the R15).

I don't know a spot in the configuration where you can set the delay for the screen saver.

[Earl Bonovich]

As I thought... the screen saver kicks in less then 10 minutes...

[Reggie3]

As I thought... the screen saver kicks in less then 10 minutes...

thanks

[cabanaboy1977]

As for negative padding.... it would be a nice addition.
I did notice though on my stargate recording last night.

Atlantis did have the Preview for next weeks SG-1 on it...
And SG-1 also had it at the end of it's recording... so for a few momements at least... both programs where recording the same channel.

I was talking about auto padding (if it can). I really don't have much use for negative padding.

That's odd that your's overlapped. On the R15 SG1 got the preview for next week and SGA started right on the "sci original programing" intro. Did yours record the second showing of SGA or the first? If it's the first I looks like the HR20 might have autopadding.

[solomita]

I was talking about auto padding (if it can). I really don't have much use for negative padding.

I think you're asking about the same thing I'm wondering about, and since others seemed confused the last time you asked about it:

Can you request that extra minutes be recorded if possible, so long as no conflict is generated? This is an annoyance with the Tivo, in that I discover recording are cancelled in order to let me record an extra minute or two at the end of a show.

[harsh]

Does that mean that they will extend that to the R15 too?Are you speaking of the capacity for larger internal drives or external drives? The internal drive question seems to have been answered with a resounding no thus far. The external drive is a question of whether or not they can make any schmuck's junker USB 1.x drive work. It probably wouldn't go over well if you had to use a specific drive or the program had to be archived as opposed to live playback.

The worst possible solution is the one that they were talking about over at TiVo where a program might "span" drives. That would be wrong on all levels.

[Earl Bonovich]

I was talking about auto padding (if it can). I really don't have much use for negative padding.

That's odd that your's overlapped. On the R15 SG1 got the preview for next week and SGA started right on the "sci original programing" intro. Did yours record the second showing of SGA or the first? If it's the first I looks like the HR20 might have autopadding.

It was the first showings of the show....
But I only had one thing recording at a time...
So it is "possible" it is starting the a few moments early...
I am going to see fi i can track down a pattern

[Earl Bonovich]

I think you're asking about the same thing I'm wondering about, and since others seemed confused the last time you asked about it:

Can you request that extra minutes be recorded if possible, so long as no conflict is generated? This is an annoyance with the Tivo, in that I discover recording are cancelled in order to let me record an extra minute or two at the end of a show.

You can request an extra minute... but it will cause conflicts... the unit then thinks the program is 1:01 long instead of 1hr.

It does not automatically add extra minutes, if there are no bookended recordings.

[cabanaboy1977]

Are you speaking of the capacity for larger internal drives or external drives? The internal drive question seems to have been answered with a resounding no thus far. The external drive is a question of whether or not they can make any schmuck's junker USB 1.x drive work. It probably wouldn't go over well if you had to use a specific drive or the program had to be archived as opposed to live playback.

The worst possible solution is the one that they were talking about over at TiVo where a program might "span" drives. That would be wrong on all levels.

I was talking about internal. I know it's not that way but from what Earl was saying I thought maybe they might update the R15 to be able to just drop in a drive and allow us to use the extra space and have them only take 60GB since they changed it to allow use to format the drive by just dropping in two releases ago.

[cabanaboy1977]

It was the first showings of the show....
But I only had one thing recording at a time...
So it is "possible" it is starting the a few moments early...
I am going to see fi i can track down a pattern

Intersting. If you can do that I wonder if you can pad two shows on the same channel at the same time (unlike the R15 that says it will do it and then doesn't)

[toy4two]

Sorry... just didn't work my way back to it:



1) It has most of the same options... but I will have to wait to get home to list them.

2) Wishlists is a patent of TiVo... the HR20 "kinda" has a similar feature (but it definently isn't the same), but I have tested to any extent. It works similar to the R15 version, but hopefully with some more consistancy then it's sibling... I will test this soon.

Earl can you explain the search feature of the HR20, I'm a huge fan of the TIVO Wishlists. Is this search feature a one time set it and forget it? Or do you have to do a search every couple days to find the subjects you want the device to find for you? How far in advance can you search, days, weeks, monthes? Does the HR20 have the ability to save favorite searchs so you don't have to type it in everytime you do a search?

[toy4two]

4) No... That is another one of TiVo's patents (and it is a pretty extensive patent covering a lot of different ways to do it). The best you can do, is hit the JUMP BACK button to come out of FF... it works pretty good in the HR20. I also have been fond of just using the 30s SLIP feature to get through most commercials... 6 presses and covers most standard commercial brakes.
(It is called AutoCorrection)
.


Is the 30s SLIP feature a buffered command, i.e. you can press it 6 times like you said one after another, or do you have to wait for the first 30secs to pass and then press it again?

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl can you explain the search feature of the HR20, I'm a huge fan of the TIVO Wishlists. Is this search feature a one time set it and forget it? Or do you have to do a search every couple days to find the subjects you want the device to find for you? How far in advance can you search, days, weeks, monthes? Does the HR20 have the ability to save favorite searchs so you don't have to type it in everytime you do a search?

There is an option to "AutoRecord" a search.
14 days is the extent of the guide data (Same as it is for the TiVo unit)

Right now there is a cap of 25 "searches"

It works similar to very basic Wishlists... if you are a power user of wishlists, you are definently going to find the Search functions "hampering"...

[Earl Bonovich]

Is the 30s SLIP feature a buffered command, i.e. you can press it 6 times like you said one after another, or do you have to wait for the first 30secs to pass and then press it again?

Yep... it is a buffered command...
It will even indicate on the screen how many times you have hit it....

And if you hit it to many... and you want to stop it... just hit play, and leaves the SLIP mode.

So when a commercial comes on... you can pick up the remote, hit slip 5 or 6 times and put the remote down...
It will SLIP past most standard commercial brakes.

[crendall]

Earl,

When setting up a Series Link what options does it give for how many episodes it should record. IIRC, the HR10-250 does up to 5 episodes and the SD Tivos with 6.2 can have up to 10.

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl,

When setting up a Series Link what options does it give for how many episodes it should record. IIRC, the HR10-250 does up to 5 episodes and the SD Tivos with 6.2 can have up to 10.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ALL

[Clint Lamor]

Earl do you know if they ever plan to do 10? It would be VERY useful for me with my work travel schedule. Makes sure I get a full week's worth of shows but doesn't record WAY too many if i'm away longer or forget to watch them.

[Earl Bonovich]

I don't know either way... but we can certainly add to the list of wants...

[Clint Lamor]

I don't know either way... but we can certainly add to the list of wants...

That would be great. I have a ton of my SP's set that way on my Tivo box. I wish the R15 had it and hope they add it to the HR20 and the R15 :)

[Wolffpack]

I don't know either way... but we can certainly add to the list of wants...
Considering it probably takes one byte of memory you could be able to pick from 1-255 with 0x00 being ALL.

I agree that there are times when 5 isn't enough and ALL isn't needed. 10 comes in handy.

[cabanaboy1977]

And if you hit it to many... and you want to stop it... just hit play, and leaves the SLIP mode.


Still no FF or RW to break the slip. I was hoping they would have fixed that.

[cabanaboy1977]

Considering it probably takes one byte of memory you could be able to pick from 1-255 with 0x00 being ALL.

I agree that there are times when 5 isn't enough and ALL isn't needed. 10 comes in handy.

I would love to see this too. On both the R15 and the HR20.

I don't even think all is ALL I think it's really 99 (forgot what screen but I know that somewhere all shows up as 99).

[NYHeel]

Is there a way to get rid of the live tv picture when you're in the different menus. For instance, I often start watching basketball and football games about an hour or 2 after they start. On the Directivo I just quickly hit list and then I don't have to worry about accidentally catching the score. Is there a way to get rid of the picture so I wouldn't see the score by accident.

When I first got the Tivo, I ws dissapointed that it didn't have a picture in guide but now I don't really want one or at least the option to turn it off.

[Earl Bonovich]

There are a few menu's that come up that don't offer the PIG (Picture in Guide)...

But they are all setup windows (such as SAT signal), that will stop your recordings/buffers.

[newsposter]

Earl,

When setting up a Series Link what options does it give for how many episodes it should record. IIRC, the HR10-250 does up to 5 episodes and the SD Tivos with 6.2 can have up to 10.

In case you didnt realize, HDtivo can do 'all ' if you set it that way. And my T60 is still sitting there with every single BSG ep on it..guess it's 40?

[KINGDIRK]

I have two HR10-250's right now and was considering switching one out for the HR20. Not sure now.

So...in your opinion, once the HR10-250 gets the upgrade (faster and folders), why would someone go with the HR20 if they are getting the locals okay with an antenna?

It is an easy decision once Directv adds national HD channels in mpeg4 and/or VOD but I can't see a huge benefit for me, especially since I am using diplexers with my antenna and would have to run new lines.

I just recently purchased an LCD tv (Sony 46XBR2) that will be here Saturday. I am a DTV customer and have a DVR so I now need an HD DVR. My friend just switched back to cable and has a HR10-250 he is willing to sell me on the cheap.

I called Directv and they told me the new HD DVR will not be available for another month or 2 here in NYC. They also told me that the HR10-250 does NOT accept HD for local channels. What the fu^k? Ive been to my friends house and the Hr10-250DOES get HD local channels....at least I think it did. Im completely confused.

1) What is/how do you "upgrade" your 10-250?
2) Does the HR10-250 allow for local channels in HD?
3) Is it worth waiting for the new HD DVR? Will it improve the picture quality on an HDTV?

[Wolffpack]

I just recently purchased an LCD tv (Sony 46XBR2) that will be here Saturday. I am a DTV customer and have a DVR so I now need an HD DVR. My friend just switched back to cable and has a HR10-250 he is willing to sell me on the cheap.

I called Directv and they told me the new HD DVR will not be available for another month or 2 here in NYC. They also told me that the HR10-250 does NOT accept HD for local channels. What the fu^k? Ive been to my friends house and the Hr10-250DOES get HD local channels....at least I think it did. Im completely confused.

1) What is/how do you "upgrade" your 10-250?
2) Does the HR10-250 allow for local channels in HD?
3) Is it worth waiting for the new HD DVR? Will it improve the picture quality on an HDTV?
The DTV CSR meant to say the HR10 will not receive HD locals from the SAT (the MPEG4 channels). The HR10 will receive OTA HD just fine. Plus if you're in NYC the HD locals are also still available in MPEG2 IIRC. So with a HR10 you can receive OTA HD locals, all current nations HD channels and the NYC locals if they are still in MPEG2.

As far as waiting for the new HD-DVR, your call. I've got 2 HR10s and I'm happy with them.

[KINGDIRK]

With the NFL season only a few weeks away, I cant wait. I just gotta order installation of the HR10-250.

For all the customer service awards DTV wins, they're reps are very confusing. I just got off the phone with an "advanced technical" rep. He told me that the new 20-700 will NOT be available until the winter. Last week, someone there told me within the next month or 2.

[Wolffpack]

With the NFL season only a few weeks away, I cant wait. I just gotta order installation of the HR10-250.

For all the customer service awards DTV wins, they're reps are very confusing. I just got off the phone with an "advanced technical" rep. He told me that the new 20-700 will NOT be available until the winter. Last week, someone there told me within the next month or 2.
No problem. Get the best deal you can. NFL isn't NFL without HD. Plain and simple. Now we have to see if CBS will finally pony up and broadcast all games in HD like FOX has been.

[judson_west]

They are available now if you live in the Los Angeles area. It will be later if you live elsewhere. So for NYC, it will be later.

[KINGDIRK]

What kind of hookup do you have from your HR10-250 to your tv? HDMI, component?

Ive heard HDMI give people problems with the 10-250....

[Earl Bonovich]

What kind of hookup do you have from your HR10-250 to your tv? HDMI, component?

Ive heard HDMI give people problems with the 10-250....

There was a problem with the HR10-250 and HDMI connection (mine suffers from it). Late creation dates , I believe after November 2004 that was corrected, but more details on that over at www.tivocommunity.com

[Wolffpack]

What kind of hookup do you have from your HR10-250 to your tv? HDMI, component?

Ive heard HDMI give people problems with the 10-250....
Running component on one (nothing else available) and HDMI -> DVI on the other.

As Earl stated the early HR10s did have HDMI problems. I'm only using HDMI on one of my units. Haven't tried it on the other.

[clhug]

Okay, I've currently got a Series 1 standalone Tivo used with my Mediacom cable TV, and I also have a Mediacom dual-tuner HD DVR. I LOVE my Tivo and HATE my Mediacom DVR. The only time I use the Mediacom DVR is when I want to record something off my local HD channels we get through cable.

There is a local promotion in my area where I'll be able to get the HR10-250 HD Tivo with DirecTV as a new DTV customer for $150 (after some rebates) so I am considering making the switch to DTV. As I said, I LOVE my current Tivo and I'm assuming the HR10-250 would work very similarly in general. The only thing holding me back is the fact that eventually I'll be forced to upgrade to this new HR20 receiver (might be a few years but eventually it'll be forced) and it won't be a Tivo. So I've been reading a lot on the HR20 trying to figure out if this will be an issue for me.

I will be able to get all my local HD channels with the HR10-250 OTA so I'm not too concerned about getting local channels over the Sat link. So if I move forward with this I'll probably hang onto the HR10 until the MPEG2 is completely turned off.

Sorry for the long intro, but I have a few questions on the HR20. I've seen some of these touched on elsewhere but I'm confused as to what the firm answer is.

On a side note, I have no familiarity at all with the R15.

1. Skip to tick - This is a MUST have. I hate the fact on my Mediacom DVR that there is no quick way to get to the end or beginning of a recording. I did read in another thread that it looks like this feature IS included on the HR20, just not documented. Is that correct?

2. Can someone please explain 30s "slip" vs. the 30s "skip" I have on my Tivo?

3. I keep seeing people refer to "trick play". Can someone please explain what this is?

4. Does the HR20 have a button similar to Tivo's 8 second "replay" button?

5. Series recordings of the same series on different channels - in the Tivo, a series recording is always specific to a single channel. My Mediacom DVR has a series recording apply to "this channel only" or "all channels" but I can not set different series recordings for the same series on different channels on the Mediacom DVR. The reason I want to do this is that on one channel I want it to record "all" episodes, whereas on the other channel I want it to record "first run" only. I can't do that on the Mediacom DVR. I read something that makes me believe that the HR20 is like my Mediacom DVR in this respect. Can someone confirm, or clarify this?

6. Go immediately to "live" TV - if I'm watching live TV and I pause it or rewind it several minutes, then want to return to "current" live TV, is there a quick easy way to do that without having to fast-foward to "catch up" to current real time? I thought I read there was, but wanted to confirm?

7. Return to same point in recording - If I begin watching a recorded program and part way through return to watching live TV, then when I return to that recorded program again, will it pick up from where I left off, or will it start over again from the beginning? I read something somewhere that makes me believe the HR20 starts over from the beginning. This would be VERY annoying. But if I misunderstood what I read, please correct me. In this item, I am referring specifically to a recorded program.

8. Same basic question as 7, but now in regards to live TV. If I'm watching live TV and I pause it, then either swap to the other tuner, or pull up and start a recorded program, then return to the live TV, will the "live" TV still be paused where I paused it originally, or will I return to "current" live TV? (I also realize if it's paused long enough for the buffer to hit its limit that it will resume playing, but then as a sub-question of this, will it resume playing from where it was paused or jump immediately to current time?)

9. Dual-buffer - this is more of a comment than a question. One thing I DO like about my Mediacom DVR is that it does have a separate live buffer for each tuner and can swap between them. There are times I do use my Mediacom DVR for this purpose. I understand the HR10-250 also has this feature. I would very much miss this feature in the HR20.

That's all I can think of for now. Thank you!

[Earl Bonovich]

1. Skip to tick - This is a MUST have. I hate the fact on my Mediacom DVR that there is no quick way to get to the end or beginning of a recording. I did read in another thread that it looks like this feature IS included on the HR20, just not documented. Is that correct?

2. Can someone please explain 30s "slip" vs. the 30s "skip" I have on my Tivo?

3. I keep seeing people refer to "trick play". Can someone please explain what this is?

4. Does the HR20 have a button similar to Tivo's 8 second "replay" button?

5. Series recordings of the same series on different channels - in the Tivo, a series recording is always specific to a single channel. My Mediacom DVR has a series recording apply to "this channel only" or "all channels" but I can not set different series recordings for the same series on different channels on the Mediacom DVR. The reason I want to do this is that on one channel I want it to record "all" episodes, whereas on the other channel I want it to record "first run" only. I can't do that on the Mediacom DVR. I read something that makes me believe that the HR20 is like my Mediacom DVR in this respect. Can someone confirm, or clarify this?

6. Go immediately to "live" TV - if I'm watching live TV and I pause it or rewind it several minutes, then want to return to "current" live TV, is there a quick easy way to do that without having to fast-foward to "catch up" to current real time? I thought I read there was, but wanted to confirm?

7. Return to same point in recording - If I begin watching a recorded program and part way through return to watching live TV, then when I return to that recorded program again, will it pick up from where I left off, or will it start over again from the beginning? I read something somewhere that makes me believe the HR20 starts over from the beginning. This would be VERY annoying. But if I misunderstood what I read, please correct me. In this item, I am referring specifically to a recorded program.

8. Same basic question as 7, but now in regards to live TV. If I'm watching live TV and I pause it, then either swap to the other tuner, or pull up and start a recorded program, then return to the live TV, will the "live" TV still be paused where I paused it originally, or will I return to "current" live TV? (I also realize if it's paused long enough for the buffer to hit its limit that it will resume playing, but then as a sub-question of this, will it resume playing from where it was paused or jump immediately to current time?)

9. Dual-buffer - this is more of a comment than a question. One thing I DO like about my Mediacom DVR is that it does have a separate live buffer for each tuner and can swap between them. There are times I do use my Mediacom DVR for this purpose. I understand the HR10-250 also has this feature. I would very much miss this feature in the HR20.

That's all I can think of for now. Thank you!

#1) It is in the HR20 but not the R15
#2) SKIP->Jump from point A to B (which is 30s later)... SLIP->Fixed FF for 30s material, you SEE the material but it FF for an exact 30s of content
#3) Trick Play refers to the FF, RW, Pause, Slow, features of the DVR
#4) Yes, but it's length is sparatatic... it is about 6s
#5) HR20 is more like the Tivo, where it is CHANNEL specific.
#6) Yes... you can hold down the forward advance (30s Slip button), for about 3s and it will take you to the end
#7) That shoudl be fixed in the first software udpate for the box
#8) I am not sure if that will be fixed with #7 or at a later time
#9) As of right now, no dual buffers in the HR20

[anubys]

Earl...

I think I have a new question! :D

Can I tell the HR20 to exclude a channel? to just not look at a channel (treat it as if it doesn't exist)?

I say this because you might want to setup a wish list for something that comes on two channels and you want it to auto-record...invariably, it will auto-record from the bad (SD) channel and not the HD one...

[Earl Bonovich]

Earl...

I think I have a new question! :D

Can I tell the HR20 to exclude a channel? to just not look at a channel (treat it as if it doesn't exist)?

I say this because you might want to setup a wish list for something that comes on two channels and you want it to auto-record...invariably, it will auto-record from the bad (SD) channel and not the HD one...


Right now... no.

[anubys]

Right now... no.

you are mean! :D

that "right now" is just loaded with Innuendo!

[Earl Bonovich]

you are mean! :D

that "right now" is just loaded with Innuendo!

:) I do that a lot....

DirecTV is looking into allowing you to customize the Channels I Recieve, or other methods to block channels from the system.

Including allowing Favorites to be the source channel list for searches and auto-records.... However, no timetable on when/if that will make it to the syste.

[anubys]

:) I do that a lot....

DirecTV is looking into allowing you to customize the Channels I Recieve, or other methods to block channels from the system.

Including allowing Favorites to be the source channel list for searches and auto-records.... However, no timetable on when/if that will make it to the syste.

that would be a FANTASTIC feature...I bet most users would use that a lot...

thanks for the info...

if this unit gets dual buffers, it will be a huge upgrade over the HR10, IMHO...


p.s. do I get a prize for asking a good question? :p

[Earl Bonovich]

p.s. do I get a prize for asking a good question? :p

Ummm.... no :D

[Orin]

I've posted on the TivoCommunity forums before regarding closed captions, and my question here will be on the same subject.

This is a subject important to me and many other deaf/hearing-impaired/closed-caption users who use DirectTV DVR systems. Its clear to me that DirectTV has had, and still have, problems ensuring that closed caption signals are passed through the DVR digital conversion process to the television intact. Examples of recurring problems are: corruption of captions (garbling of words, garbage, etc), delayed captions, early captions (captioned dialogue appearing before people speak them), missing words, lines or entire dialogues from captions.

I own the following:

standard DirectTV with Tivo - Historically had many problems with closed captions being corrupted (garbled), missing words, lines or entire dialogues. Has improved lately with software upgrades to the tivo system.

HR10-250 HD-DirectTV with Tivo - Standard channels display closed captions alright, occasionally there are problems with garbled captions or missing words. HD channels are extremely prone to captioning issues. Am on my second HR10 unit, with no improvement. HD-HBO is unwatchable because every few minutes or so, a word or anywhere from one to several lines of dialogue will get 'skipped' or 'lost'. Other HD channels have similar issues - corruption, delayed captions, early captions, etc.

My wife (also deaf) has forbidden me from Tivo'ing any HD channels due to the instability in their captions. She particularly hates HD-HBO because it will look okay for a while, and she'll get into the show, then a few lines of dialogue (usually just when someone says something good) will get skipped.

I hope you'll forgive my long-winded "backgrounder", which I hope helps you answer my following questions:

1) How does the HR20 compare to HR10 in handling closed captions on standard channels?

2) How does the HR20 compare to HR10 in handling closed captions on HD channels? (HD-HBO, the local HD channels, etc)

[clhug]

#1) It is in the HR20 but not the R15
#2) SKIP->Jump from point A to B (which is 30s later)... SLIP->Fixed FF for 30s material, you SEE the material but it FF for an exact 30s of content
#3) Trick Play refers to the FF, RW, Pause, Slow, features of the DVR
#4) Yes, but it's length is sparatatic... it is about 6s
#5) HR20 is more like the Tivo, where it is CHANNEL specific.
#6) Yes... you can hold down the forward advance (30s Slip button), for about 3s and it will take you to the end
#7) That shoudl be fixed in the first software udpate for the box
#8) I am not sure if that will be fixed with #7 or at a later time
#9) As of right now, no dual buffers in the HR20

Thanks much for all your answers. I greatly appreciate it!!

[greywolf]

I haven't been able to follow every post but what bothered me is on page 6 of the manual the following appears re: the OTA input. "Note that you will not be able to record programs received off the air on your DIRECTV Plus HD DVR." Has this been discussed, dismissed or what?

[Earl Bonovich]

I haven't been able to follow every post but what bothered me is on page 6 of the manual the following appears re: the OTA input. "Note that you will not be able to record programs received off the air on your DIRECTV Plus HD DVR." Has this been discussed, dismissed or what?

Was that on the ONLINE manual?

As I am looking at the printed one... and there is no NOTE anywhere on page 6


1) OFF-AIR IN - Connect an ATSC antenna to the DIRECTV Plus HD DVD using this jack. You will be able to watch off-air digital TV broadcasts (ATSC programming) on your DIRECV HD DVR, and these ATSC channels will apear in the guide


Later on it talkes about being able to record 3 things at once.
Which I have already confirmed to be incorrect.

I expect that we probably will have an updated manuall... or a correction addedum eventually.

[greywolf]

Printed manual. It's in the descriptions of the rear connections.

[Earl Bonovich]

Printed manual. It's in the descriptions of the rear connections.

Hmmm...... I wonder if for some reason we have different printed manuals...
I'll check it again when I get home.

[alwayslucky21]

I have been very excited and nervous at the same time about the prospect of replacing my HR10-250 because I will probably have to as soon as I am able to get the HR20-700 because for OTA is Seattle, I can either receive ABC/NBC/CBS or FOX not all (with a directional antenna). Of course D* has still yet to reach agreements with FOX/ABC here, so I still can't get FOX from the satellite, but I trust I will be able to in the near future.

Earl, your review and this subsequent thread have made me feel a little better about the thought of upgrading, but one thing I'm really curious about is the actual guide of the HR20. I have seen a friend's H20 and assume it will be similar, but on my Tivo I use the "List View" exclusively and after getting used to it some time ago, can't stand a typical grid. What customizations of the guide exist (if any)? Also, I read in someone's post that the guide is a 2 button action, is that true? Can that be changed via options? It seems to me that viewing the guide and viewing my recorded shows would be the two most used functions of a DVR and to have either of those be more than a single click seems ridiculous. Can you tell me some wonderful news that will make me more at ease with the guide of the HR20, because as I'm sure all married men who rejoiced the day their wife actually thanked them for buying a piece of electronics once she fell in love with the Tivo can attest, I'm afraid of making a significant change to the happy balance we currently have in our TV lives, and I think that if the guide is that difficult to use/navigate, I could be in a predicament.

Thanks again for the wonderful review and wealth of information.

[Earl Bonovich]

There is very minimal customization of the GUIDE on the HR20... it is pretty much teh same as it is on the H20.

The only thing close to the TiVo "List" view, would be the higlight of the channel and hit info, and it will list all the shows. (However, to get to the next channel, you have to leave that channel, highlight the next and hit info again).

To get into the Guide.... Yep... two presses of guide. The first one brings up a filter selection, the second shows the guide. It has been brought up multiple times to eliminate the filter screen (or let it default), we will see if that gets changed.

To get to your listing of recorded shows: 1 click (LIST)

[thebarge]

I noticed you mentioned that it has a single live buffer. So a couple questions related to that:

1. Is there an easy way to switch from one sat input to the other? On my existing Tivo I just press the down arrow and it swaps.

2. If there's only one live buffer, what happens to the other buffer when you switch? For example, I'm on sat input 1 watching CBS and I'm 10 minutes behind. I want to check the weather real quick so I change to sat 2 and switch it to the weather channel. What happens when I switch back to sat 1? Did I just lose the 10 minutes I was behind and I'm now live?

[JoeSchueller]

That's a good clarification. I simply assumed that any tuner change (like any channel change) resulted in resetting the buffer to 0 and starting on the new tuner/channel.

However, if you don't do any "trick play" on the newly switched-to tuner, can you go back to the previous tuner and pick up in the buffer? Or, does the buffer just always follow what's being displayed.

[Earl Bonovich]

I noticed you mentioned that it has a single live buffer. So a couple questions related to that:

1. Is there an easy way to switch from one sat input to the other? On my existing Tivo I just press the down arrow and it swaps.

2. If there's only one live buffer, what happens to the other buffer when you switch? For example, I'm on sat input 1 watching CBS and I'm 10 minutes behind. I want to check the weather real quick so I change to sat 2 and switch it to the weather channel. What happens when I switch back to sat 1? Did I just lose the 10 minutes I was behind and I'm now live?

That's a good clarification. I simply assumed that any tuner change (like any channel change) resulted in resetting the buffer to 0 and starting on the new tuner/channel.

However, if you don't do any "trick play" on the newly switched-to tuner, can you go back to the previous tuner and pick up in the buffer? Or, does the buffer just always follow what's being displayed.

1) With only one buffer, there is no toggle between the two tuners. IF you are recording two things at once... you can hit PREV and it will toggle between the two recordings.

2) There is only one buffer... there is no "other buffer"... if you "toggle" to something else.. .the buffer is reset (if you are not actually recording the program).

To avoid confussion, I have been trying to refer to them as:

Foreground tuner
and
Background tuner

The Foreground tuner has the buffer; where the Background tuner is first to be used to try and record things, or for Active Content, or other items.

[stuart628]

earl so what about recording the OTA, is it possible? do you guys have different manuals? Just wondering becuase if it cant record OTA, what good is it?

[Earl Bonovich]

earl so what about recording the OTA, is it possible? do you guys have different manuals? Just wondering becuase if it cant record OTA, what good is it?

Right now OTA is disabled.
So we won't know till it is enabled.

As for why we have different manuals.... no idea.

As for what good is it? Plenty of discussion on that... OTA is not the only thing the unit can record... for some, MPEG-4 versions of the locals is the only thing they CAN get....

[stuart628]

Right now OTA is disabled.
So we won't know till it is enabled.

As for why we have different manuals.... no idea.

As for what good is it? Plenty of discussion on that... OTA is not the only thing the unit can record... for some, MPEG-4 versions of the locals is the only thing they CAN get....

I understand that trust me I do. It is good for some, but others like me who cant have a dish on their roof, what am I suppose to do? I have the Phase 3 up their just fine now, but I dont want the AT9 up on my roof, as I live in a high wind area. To me it wouldnt be smart to have that heavy of a satellite up on my roof, with all the holes that would have to be drilled. I really am at a crossroads, as I LOVE Directv, but after the football season is over, turn in my lease equipment and exit early and go back to cable ( :( ) as to get my locals in HD (if the HR20-700 cant record OTA). I already asked if the HR20-700 is compatiable with the Phase 3, and someone was polite enough to help me out, but this would be a Huge blow to me. Thanks earl anything you can comment on would help me out, and I am sure there are others in a similar situation. I would be confused why maybe a updated manual says you cant record ATSC.

[Earl Bonovich]

I understand that trust me I do. It is good for some, but others like me who cant have a dish on their roof, what am I suppose to do? I have the Phase 3 up their just fine now, but I dont want the AT9 up on my roof, as I live in a high wind area. To me it wouldnt be smart to have that heavy of a satellite up on my roof, with all the holes that would have to be drilled. I really am at a crossroads, as I LOVE Directv, but after the football season is over, turn in my lease equipment and exit early and go back to cable ( :( ) as to get my locals in HD (if the HR20-700 cant record OTA). I already asked if the HR20-700 is compatiable with the Phase 3, and someone was polite enough to help me out, but this would be a Huge blow to me. Thanks earl anything you can comment on would help me out, and I am sure there are others in a similar situation. I would be confused why maybe a updated manual says you cant record ATSC.

Have you actually SEEN the AT-9 dish....
Is it bigger... yes
Is it heaver... yes

Is is MASSIVELY different in size... no... It still uses the same 4 monting screws (aka if your installer knows what they are doing, they will fill in any old holes that couldn't be used, and you are looking at maybe two NEW holes). will catch a little bit more of the wind. And if properly installed, you should see really NO difference with the dish, from a footprint point of view.

I have mine on the edge of my home, and we had some 60+ MPH days this summer, and the wind was going directly into the TILT/backside of the dish... and it didn't move a bit.

Where would you put your OTA antenna? As usually they are light weight, but have a big surface area....

The HR20 is compatible with a Phase III, but you simply won't be able to get OTA.
And we are looking at October as a time frame for the OTA recording.

So it is not years or decades, we are now at the point that it is 6-8 weeks based on the information I have as of today (which is always subject to change).

[stuart628]

Have you actually SEEN the AT-9 dish....
Is it bigger... yes
Is it heaver... yes

Is is MASSIVELY different in size... no... It still uses the same 4 monting screws (aka if your installer knows what they are doing, they will fill in any old holes that couldn't be used, and you are looking at maybe two NEW holes). will catch a little bit more of the wind. And if properly installed, you should see really NO difference with the dish, from a footprint point of view.

I have mine on the edge of my home, and we had some 60+ MPH days this summer, and the wind was going directly into the TILT/backside of the dish... and it didn't move a bit.

Where would you put your OTA antenna? As usually they are light weight, but have a big surface area....

The HR20 is compatible with a Phase III, but you simply won't be able to get OTA.
And we are looking at October as a time frame for the OTA recording.

So it is not years or decades, we are now at the point that it is 6-8 weeks based on the information I have as of today (which is always subject to change).

I have not seen the New dish, but I was told by a directv installer, in my area (the one that would install me) that he will not put them on a roof, and he doesnt recommend Anyone getting them on their roof as the weight alone is bad for the roof. Just going by what my tech said. Also the OTA antenna I have is in my attic, no roof mounts their either. and I might just sit tight and see what the whole OTA tuner thing shakes out anyways, great info so far earl keep us posted!

[clhug]

1) With only one buffer, there is no toggle between the two tuners. IF you are recording two things at once... you can hit PREV and it will toggle between the two recordings.

2) There is only one buffer... there is no "other buffer"... if you "toggle" to something else.. .the buffer is reset (if you are not actually recording the program).

To avoid confussion, I have been trying to refer to them as:

Foreground tuner
and
Background tuner

The Foreground tuner has the buffer; where the Background tuner is first to be used to try and record things, or for Active Content, or other items.


Okay, I think I understand this. To me, this sounds like from a purely watching "live" TV standpoint, we should really think of the HR20 as a single tuner unit. I currently have a standalone series 1 single-tuner TiVo so it sounds like the HR20 works just like my current TiVo would with its single tuner.

The 2nd tuner in the HR20 is only ever used for recording.

Would that be an accurate description, or am I still missing something?

(I do prefer the ability to have two live buffers and swap between them as my Mediacom cable DVR and the HR10-250 have, but I know that's a whole different discussion that's already been gone over.)

[Earl Bonovich]

Okay, I think I understand this. To me, this sounds like from a purely watching "live" TV standpoint, we should really think of the HR20 as a single tuner unit. I currently have a standalone series 1 single-tuner TiVo so it sounds like the HR20 works just like my current TiVo would with its single tuner.

The 2nd tuner in the HR20 is only ever used for recording.

Would that be an accurate description, or am I still missing something?

(I do prefer the ability to have two live buffers and swap between them as my Mediacom cable DVR and the HR10-250 have, but I know that's a whole different discussion that's already been gone over.)

Acutally... yes.. that is a very good way to describe it...

[newsposter]

I'm not an engineer but the pics of the dish i've seen on this forum, combined with the weight I know this thing is, means you have nothing to worry about weight wise. Heck do you know how much snow/ice must weigh? And that 200+ pound guy that installed my OTA? And all the shingles and workers that are on a roof when you are building it? (someone probably does know :))

Think about it. Even a 100lb dish wont be a weight problem on a roof. Just common sense tells us so.

[greywolf]

It's about installers understandably not wanting to wrestle with that weight on a rooftop for peanuts. They'd rather be safe on the ground and be able to charge extra for a non standard mount.

[paul01463]

I'm not an engineer but the pics of the dish i've seen on this forum, combined with the weight I know this thing is, means you have nothing to worry about weight wise. Heck do you know how much snow/ice must weigh? And that 200+ pound guy that installed my OTA? And all the shingles and workers that are on a roof when you are building it? (someone probably does know :))

Think about it. Even a 100lb dish wont be a weight problem on a roof. Just common sense tells us so.

Actually, not true. The weight of the unit is only one consideration. One characteristic of a satellite antenna is its shape; it’s a parabola. Parabolas are wonderful wind catchers – ask any seaman to define the shape of a well-trimmed sail and he’ll describe a parabola. So, when you increase an antenna’s size, you (most likely) not only increase its weight, you also increase, at the square of the added area (if I remember correctly), the impact wind has upon the antenna structure.

[Maik]

In March when my wife and I moved into our new house, DTV put up the new AT9 dish with the assumption that I would need it rather than put up the older one and then replace that one. When the installer showed up, he complained that they had been having lots of problems with the new dish because of "its flimsey nature". He mentioned that they were not very strong and had been coming out of alignment quite easily.
I have no idea if that was true, and I can say that I have had no issues whatsoever with the dish.

[thebarge]

He mentioned that they were not very strong and had been coming out of alignment quite easily.
The installer that came out yesterday to install my HR10-250 also told me that they'd be releasing the HR20 in 4-6 weeks so there was no use in installing their cheap OTA antenna which would only give me 1 channel.

After he left I went to Circuit City and bought a cheap indoor UHF antenna for $40 and brought it home and picked up about 5 channels, 2 of them being network channels (ABC and CBS, both in HD). My CM4228 antenna should be here by the weeks end. I wouldn't trust anything they say :)

[greywolf]

Screw the foot into a rafter and install the two monopoles to the reflector as outlined in the installation video and the thing isn't going anywhere. Other mounts like an under eave can be iffy but a roof mount shouldn't be a problem.

[newsposter]

Screw the foot into a rafter and install the two monopoles to the reflector as outlined in the installation video and the thing isn't going anywhere. Other mounts like an under eave can be iffy but a roof mount shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for the reinforcement. I knew a properly installed dish shouldn't be a problem. I'm pretty sure they have engineers that designed these things know what a majority of Americans have for a roof.

[greywolf]

I just had my AT9 installed on the roof today. The installers were lead techs and they didn't say a word about the roof mount.

[jimmyt]

cant seem to find this anywhere.. I am assuming the HR20 will work with the standard triple lnb?? (I know.. no mpeg4)

[PoitNarf]

cant seem to find this anywhere.. I am assuming the HR20 will work with the standard triple lnb?? (I know.. no mpeg4)

Yes it will work fine, but no MPEG4 channels as you stated.

[Zap23]

I have called directv a couple times and they said that the hr10-250 they want to sell me is NOT Tivo. That doesn't make sense to me. It seems anywhere that I have looked on the web, it always looks like the hr10-250 is a Tivo. If I want to get a Tivo hr10-250 do I need to get it from someone other than directv or are the 2 support people that I talked to just flat wrong? I would like to stick with Tivo as long as I can.

[Wolffpack]

HR10-250 = Tivo. HR20-700 = New HD DVR, not Tivo. Try calling another CSR or call the retention line at 800-824-9081. If you want Tivo you should be able to get a HR10-250.

[Guitar Hero]

EDIT: My question is withdrawn. I just canceled my DirecTV service since because, 1. They don't care about me. And, 2. The don't like the fact I keep calling trying to get a better deal that others have received.

[rcawood]

The HR-20 takes many steps backward from a software side (for me). I will put off owning one as long as possible and may make switch to a TIVO cable solution when necessary. Below is a summary of the differences I have gleaned from reading this thread. Some don't make much difference but some are very important to me (automatic 8 sec rewind when pressing play).

Its disappointing that so many features have been left out when they all could have been included with a licensing deal. The upside of quicker operation is very nice but is not worth giving up so much software functionality.

May be upgraded/changed:
No skip to tic mark
No memory of stopped position when stop watching a recorded program in the middle
No memory of paused position when switching from a live program in the middle
OTA tuners not enabled

Other issues:
Single tuner buffer (not dual)
No automatic 8 sec rewind when you hit play from fast forward
Limited Wish list functions; possibility what is there is buggy like R15
No recording of suggestions

Not sure:
When does HR20 re-record a episode that is set to record first run and reruns – TIVO doesn’t re-record for 90 days. Apparently R15 is only as long as it is in the now playing list.
Appears not possible to set and keep X number of shows but not have the shows recorded over by newer ones (on TIVO – Keep at most 5 shows; Keep until I delete means shows will not be replaced with later episodes until watched)
Lip Sync issues worse/same/better compared to HR-10?


Upside:
The only upside I can see for me is quicker operation. VDO is not implemented and given limited drive space it does not sound promising to me. I don’t care about simultaneous output and I get my locals over the air.

[khajath]

First of all, reading your post is more like reading a book review of someone who haven't read the book, or car review from someone never drive it, but gather words on the street. I think we all respect your opinion if you state that you love your TIVO (we all do), but to post a comparision between the two while you have not even touched the HR20 nor know how it works will cause lack of substance in your post.


May be upgraded/changed:
No skip to tic mark
No memory of stopped position when stop watching a recorded program in the middle
No memory of paused position when switching from a live program in the middle
OTA tuners not enabled


Funny, since if you're using the latest software on HR20, you wouldn't post any of these. There's a difference between OTA tuner not-there and not-enable. I trust Earl words that it'll be enabled soon. I don't think DTV put it there just for fun.



Other issues:
Single tuner buffer (not dual)


It's DIRECTV business decision. Big deal to some, not to other. If this is a "must" for you, then yes, it is important.


No automatic 8 sec rewind when you hit play from fast forward
Limited Wish list functions; possibility what is there is buggy like R15
No recording of suggestions


Have you actually use the box to see how FWD/RDW work on the HR20, or you just make up story here ??


Not sure:
When does HR20 re-record a episode that is set to record first run and reruns – TIVO doesn’t re-record for 90 days. Apparently R15 is only as long as it is in the now playing list.
Appears not possible to set and keep X number of shows but not have the shows recorded over by newer ones (on TIVO – Keep at most 5 shows; Keep until I delete means shows will not be replaced with later episodes until watched)
Lip Sync issues worse/same/better compared to HR-10?



I have not experienced any FirstRun/Repeat issue,, nor I've seen anybody else complain about the SL issue. Some of us have problem with playback & manual recording, but that's not what you complain. Are you just making up things here ??
At this point, you may as well state that HR20 consume too much electricity, and emitt too much electromagnectic ??, just to keep the flow going ...


Upside:
The only upside I can see for me is quicker operation. VDO is not implemented and given limited drive space it does not sound promising to me. I don’t care about simultaneous output and I get my locals over the air.

MPEG4 ?, interactive ? VOD (What's VDO ???) ? Future features that DIRECTV might put into the box ?

[rcawood]

YOU DON"T HAVE CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE. You don't even know how the ToDo and Prioritizer work on the HR20 !!!. I have not experienced any FirstRun/Repeat issue,, nor I've seen anybody else complain about this issue. At this point, your post is completely silly.
Heck, you may as well state that you like the HR10 because it consume less electricity, and emitt less electromagnectic. Since if you don't have a clue of thing you're commenting, may as well make up the rest of the story.


Calm down. My post was based on reading this thread. I clearly don't own a HR20. Based on the postings here I think these comments are valid. If some have been fixed by a software update that is great, I just did not see it in this thread. If I am mistaken on interpertation of some of these points I welcome correction (in a constructive way). If I knew everything about how the HR20 works I wouldn't be reading or posting in this thread.

I think you have misinterpeted many or most of the comments. For example on the Firstrun/Repeat go to post 38 from wolffpack which explains this matter more clearly.

[66stang351]

May be upgraded/changed:
No skip to tic mark
No memory of stopped position when stop watching a recorded program in the middle
No memory of paused position when switching from a live program in the middle
OTA tuners not enabled
Okay so fixed, fixed, not sure what you are talking about and will be turned on next month by most reports.

Other issues:
Single tuner buffer (not dual)
No automatic 8 sec rewind when you hit play from fast forward
Limited Wish list functions; possibility what is there is buggy like R15
No recording of suggestions
As mentioned previously this was a D* business decision, work around by hitting jumpback instead of play, Tivo patented feature, Tivo patented feature that I personally disabled as soon as I found where the option was.

Not sure:
When does HR20 re-record a episode that is set to record first run and reruns – TIVO doesn’t re-record for 90 days. Apparently R15 is only as long as it is in the now playing list.
Appears not possible to set and keep X number of shows but not have the shows recorded over by newer ones (on TIVO – Keep at most 5 shows; Keep until I delete means shows will not be replaced with later episodes until watched)
Lip Sync issues worse/same/better compared to HR-10?
If you don't want it to record reruns don't tell it to. Again if you don't want to watch the shows then delete them don't record them. I don't think there have been any lipsink issues reported so why include it here.

Upside:
The only upside I can see for me is quicker operation. VDO is not implemented and given limited drive space it does not sound promising to me. I don’t care about simultaneous output and I get my locals over the air.
I can't stand the Tivo I have now it is so stinking slow so this is a very big upside to me. VOD who cares either way. I agree about simultaneous outputs. I get my HD locals over the sat in mpeg2.

[harsh]

Its disappointing that so many features have been left out when they all could have been included with a licensing deal.The whole point of the exercise was to get out of a licensing deal. At some point, licensing deals can begin to look like extortion.

It should be noted that because a feature isn't there in name it doesn't mean that an alternative doesn't exist. I find the whole concept of fast forwarding with the TiVo to be completely unacceptable. I used my sister's TiVo when I was visiting recently and it was a big turn-off trying to skip large strings of commercials. With her family, it is a game to see who can spend less time fiddling around trying to get where they want to go.

Once the HR20 gets to where it is working as advertised, they can begin to add or modify features to make it better.

[rcawood]

As mentioned previously this was a D* business decision, work around by hitting jumpback instead of play,

If you hit the jump back button does that give the same result as hitting play on the TIVO (with 8 second back-up)? If so thats a reasonable work around. How is the placement of the jump back button for this usage?

[Wolffpack]

If you hit the jump back button does that give the same result as hitting play on the TIVO (with 8 second back-up)? If so thats a reasonable work around. How is the placement of the jump back button for this usage?
At least on the R15 the jump back length ranges anywhere from 1 to 6-7 seconds. Not at all consistent.

BTW, my understanding on the logic Tivo uses when coming out of FF is that it also monitors and tracks how many small adjustments are made after you press play. Based on that the amount of time the Tivo jumps back can be different depending on each user. It doesn't just back up 8 seconds when you press play. If that's all it did I doubt a patent would have been issued. To quote patent # 6850691:
An automatic playback overshoot correction system predicts the position in the program material where the user expects to be when the user stops the fast forward or reverse progression of the program material. The invention determines the position where the program material was stopped. The media controller transitions to the new mode that the user selected, starting at the stopped position with an overshoot correction factor added or subtracted from it. The invention adapts to the user by remembering how much the user corrects after he stops the fast forward or reverse mode. Correction factors are calculated using the user's corrections and adjusting the correction factors if the user continues to make corrections. The invention also uses a prediction method to correctly place the user within the program upon transition out of either mode and determines if the speed of the fast forward or reverse modes and then automatically subtracts or adds, respectively, a time multiple to the frame where the transition was detected and positions the user at the correct frame. The time multiple is fine tuned if the user is consistently correcting after the fast forward or rewind mode stops. Another method initially tests the user's reaction time using a test video and asks the user to press the fast forward or reverse button on his control device during the test video and then asks the user to position the video to the place that he expected the system to have been. This time span is then used whenever the user uses the fast forward or reverse modes and is adjusted with a multiple for each speed. A final method allows the user to simply set a sensitivity setting that the system will use as a correction factor and a multiple is subtracted or added to the release frame whenever the user uses the fast forward or reverse modes, respectively.

[litzdog911]

I also wish that the HR20 had a more "Tivo-like" implementation of 30-sec skip and "jump back" overshoot correction. When skipping commercials on the HR20 I find that the 30-sec "slip" feature is too slow. And the 3x FF is also rather slow. Plus it's easy to overshoot and then have to hit "jump back" several times to get back to the correct spot on the show.

[Spinner]

D* is coming out to upgrade my equipment so I can receive HD and install an HR20 in a couple of weeks. I own 2 HD TVs and based on the issues the HR20 is having that I'm reading about, I want to get the HR10 for my second TV. I live in the LA area and I just want to confirm that the HR10 WILL receive local channels in HD without an OTA antenna?

If I understand correctly, the only thing I'm really giving up (right now) with the HR10 is the Regional Sports Networks?

Sorry to get off-topic a little but I spoke with 3 CS reps at D* and none of them could answer that question.

[litzdog911]

D* is coming out to upgrade my equipment so I can receive HD and install an HR20 in a couple of weeks. I own 2 HD TVs and based on the issues the HR20 is having that I'm reading about, I want to get the HR10 for my second TV. I live in the LA area and I just want to confirm that the HR10 WILL receive local channels in HD without an OTA antenna?

If I understand correctly, the only thing I'm really giving up (right now) with the HR10 is the Regional Sports Networks?

Sorry to get off-topic a little but I spoke with 3 CS reps at D* and none of them could answer that question.

Yes, you are correct. Your LA local HDTV channels are still provided in MPEG2 format on Chs 80's. But that might change sometime next year.

[price3]

Does the HR20 only have 1 OTA tuner like the Best Buy page states? Until I get MP4 locals I need 2 OTA tuners. Actually I'd trade one or both of the satellite tuners for another OTA :)

[Earl Bonovich]

The Best Buy site is wrong.

The box has two physical OTA Tuners
However, both of them are inactive at this point

[Spinner]

Yes, you are correct. Your LA local HDTV channels are still provided in MPEG2 format on Chs 80's. But that might change sometime next year.

Thanks for the reply, litz.

[JerryShain]

If you don't have a need for:
1) Interactive
2) Simultaneous Outputs
3) MPEG-4

Then right now... at the core... HR10-250 (6.3) ~ HR20

I mean there are a lot of other factors, but if you already have HR10's... then there is no glarring reason to jump to the HR20, if some of added features don't intrest you... and certainly not, until the OTA tuners are enabled.

So, will the HR10-250 work for years to come or will D* make you change. I heard somewhere eventually we will be forced to switch.

[thebarge]

So, will the HR10-250 work for years to come or will D* make you change. I heard somewhere eventually we will be forced to switch.Eventually they'll migrate all their HD channels to mpeg4 so the HR10-250 will only be able to get SD and OTA HD.

[JerryShain]

The DTV CSR meant to say the HR10 will not receive HD locals from the SAT (the MPEG4 channels). The HR10 will receive OTA HD just fine. Plus if you're in NYC the HD locals are also still available in MPEG2 IIRC. So with a HR10 you can receive OTA HD locals, all current nations HD channels and the NYC locals if they are still in MPEG2.

As far as waiting for the new HD-DVR, your call. I've got 2 HR10s and I'm happy with them.

I have an HR10-250 and I get the local channels in HD. Channels 81-CBS, 83-NBC, 87-ABC, & 89-FOX.

[Wolffpack]

I have an HR10-250 and I get the local channels in HD. Channels 81-CBS, 83-NBC, 87-ABC, & 89-FOX.
Correct, it will receive HD locals if you're in the NYC or LA DMA. It will not receive mpeg4 HD locals.

[newsposter]

any anyone that doesn't want their HDtivo anymore, i'll take off your hands :)

[macericpet]

What happens when a recording is interrupted for some reason or another. For instance, a show is recording and ten minutes in there is a power outage. On the HR10 I would end up with two partial recordings. How does the HR20 handle this?

[cabanaboy1977]

What happens when a recording is interrupted for some reason or another. For instance, a show is recording and ten minutes in there is a power outage. On the HR10 I would end up with two partial recordings. How does the HR20 handle this?

If it's anything like it's brother/sister the R15 you'd be left with only the second half of the show. The first half just gets deleted.

[macericpet]

That's not very cool.

[newsposter]

If it's anything like it's brother/sister the R15 you'd be left with only the second half of the show. The first half just gets deleted.


no way....how terrible..how does it know to erase what's already been recorded?

[Wolffpack]

no way....how terrible..how does it know to erase what's already been recorded?
I don't think it erases it, it just hasn't "kept" it until the recording is complete. Thus power failure or reset just ends up with lost clusters it grabs back (hopefully) when it reboots. Reset 59 minutes into a 60 minute show you've got nothing.

[cabanaboy1977]

I don't think it erases it, it just hasn't "kept" it until the recording is complete. Thus power failure or reset just ends up with lost clusters it grabs back (hopefully) when it reboots. Reset 59 minutes into a 60 minute show you've got nothing.

I assume the Tivo's and the UTV's and I assume all other DVR's use there last breath to close the file (or something like that) and then when they come up they just start a new recording. I don't get why the R15 does that.

Has anyone tried this yet on the HR20? To test this just start a recording and way a couple of just the last half.

[scottp461]

I think that this is a new question, Does the HR20 have a "play to record" option? I've talked to people with cable DVRs that won't allow HD programs to be down res'd to 480i so that they can be recorded in NTSC to an external VCR or DVD recorder (off of the analog outputs). I know that I can do this with my HR10-250's and it is something that I do regularly to archive shows or complete TV series collections that will never be sold on DVD (such as the 2nd season of "Boomtown" and the half season run of "Karen Sisco"). At high data rates the recorded DVD's actually look pretty good.

[cabanaboy1977]

I think that this is a new question, Does the HR20 have a "play to record" option? I've talked to people with cable DVRs that won't allow HD programs to be down res'd to 480i so that they can be recorded in NTSC to an external VCR or DVD recorder (off of the analog outputs). I know that I can do this with my HR10-250's and it is something that I do regularly to archive shows or complete TV series collections that will never be sold on DVD (such as the 2nd season of "Boomtown" and the half season run of "Karen Sisco"). At high data rates the recorded DVD's actually look pretty good.

I know it doesn't have a "play to record" option. But I don't know if it down converts to 480i. I'd be intersted to know that since I'd want to output the yellow RCA video cable to my SD capture card.

[davidrumm]

Yes it does down rez to 480i. It also does this at the same time it is sending out full HD by the Component and HDMI cables. So you can have a vcr or dvd recorder connected by composite cables and the HD tv connected by the HDMI.

[tonybertino]

Anyone heard anything about future plans to allow connectivity via home network?

I would assume so since I've heard of rumors about a "TivoToGo" type feature in the future.

[actionman]

Ok, I am new here. I have read a bunch of these posts. What is the general consensus? Which unit is better/more preferred? I am so tired of waiting to put all my HD equipment to use! I don't want to make the wrong decision here and be delayed or under-whelmed. I greatly respect all the work you people have done in breaking down these HD DVRs. I have bookmarked the site and hope to learn lots.

Thanks.

[khajath]

I prefer the HR20 over HR10. I have not had any problem at all, the box is fast and reliable on me so far.

However, notice that I'm just an average user, and I don't have my receiver setup for DD5.1 or anything. Perhaps power user could give your better takes.

If it is like DIRECTV announced (major roll out after this weekend), then I am sure you would get more helping posting later this month.

Ok, I am new here. I have read a bunch of these posts. What is the general consensus? Which unit is better/more preferred? I am so tired of waiting to put all my HD equipment to use! I don't want to make the wrong decision here and be delayed or under-whelmed. I greatly respect all the work you people have done in breaking down these HD DVRs. I have bookmarked the site and hope to learn lots.

Thanks.

[perilous]

any anyone that doesn't want their HDtivo anymore, i'll take off your hands :)

How about my Samsung non-Tivo HD receiver (or should I say $700 doorstop!!!!)? :mad:

[scheckeNYK]

I live in NYC (Brooklyn to be more specific) and am under the impression that all local HD broadcast affiliates like ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, and the CW will be passed through the satellite as MPEG-4. Is this correct? I am trying to understand if I need an OTA tuner, or if what comes through that sat. is sufficient. Does having a tuner in addtion give me any expanded channels or benefits?

[harsh]

I am trying to understand if I need an OTA tuner, or if what comes through that sat. is sufficient. Does having a tuner in addtion give me any expanded channels or benefits?Having an OTA tuner (with an appropriate antenna), gives you access to many more broadcast channels... chief among them, PBS-HD. CW is currently not on the list (it isn't up yet) but you may have access to UPN and WB now (and CW later) via broadcast.

Not having an OTA tuner in a market with a lot of broadcast channels can be a real downer.

It is also notable that the NYC HD channels should be available in MPEG2 for a while yet.

[bjbyers]

1) Yes there is a graphic bar (similar to that on the R15)... that will represent how full it is... it is right in the MyVod area (where you get your list of recorded programs)... It is graphical and will tell you a percentage.
2) Nearly instant... well okay maybe a second, but in generall... very very fast.

You said the response time (ie: when pressing record) is really fast. Is this only with a one-time record or is it also fast when choosing a season pass? This along is worth the bling, I spent more time "waiting" with my HR10-250 when I do watching tv...

[scheckeNYK]

Having an OTA tuner (with an appropriate antenna), gives you access to many more broadcast channels... chief among them, PBS-HD. CW is currently not on the list (it isn't up yet) but you may have access to UPN and WB now (and CW later) via broadcast.

Not having an OTA tuner in a market with a lot of broadcast channels can be a real downer.

It is also notable that the NYC HD channels should be available in MPEG2 for a while yet.

the HR-20 is not letting me setup my antenna. it's just grayed out. DTV CS told me the HR20 doesn't support OTA antennas yet, but will upon a late 2006 software update. is this true?

[greywolf]

the HR-20 is not letting me setup my antenna. it's just grayed out. DTV CS told me the HR20 doesn't support OTA antennas yet, but will upon a late 2006 software update. is this true?That is the case.

[DJConan]

[QUOTE=khajath;643948]

At this point, you may as well state that HR20 consume too much electricity, and emitt too much electromagnectic ??, just to keep the flow going ...

[QUOTE]


I couldn't help but laugh when I saw this sarcastic comment. Well, because mine seems to have a problem such as you joked about. I set up the box last night and before I even turned it on, as I was placing in my audio rack that holds up my TV, the TV screen became very discolored at the left corners. It didn't do this while I put the box near the TV...just when I put it UNDER the TV.

It was probably sitting about 5" below the TV. I decided to try and put it below some other hardware, which moved it about 8" below the TV and under a DVD player. The discolored area shrunk a little, but was still very obvious. I ended up having to re-arrange even more hardware and get it another 4-5" lower before it became acceptable.

I just measured it. It's now 13" below the TV and it's almost undetectable now. I don't like where I had to sit the box because it's too low for IR control (I know about RF...I prefer my universal remote that does IR) and it's now in a section of my cabinet that houses my audio receiver and those two together are generating some serious heat.

Has anyone else noticed interference from the box with their CRT TV?

[newsposter]

crt rptv here...2 HDtivos are on top of a stereo rack next to the tv. The top of the rack is at the top of the tv height. I'm guessing it's less than 12 inches from the edge tivo to the screen. Never any problems

[aprest]

Can the HR20-700 output a 16:9 anamorphic picture at 480i so that you can record full screen onto a DVD recorder? Is there a setting to do this as there is with the HR10-250 TIVI HD STB?

[fdeitz]

I've posted on the TivoCommunity forums before regarding closed captions, and my question here will be on the same subject.

1) How does the HR20 compare to HR10 in handling closed captions on standard channels?

2) How does the HR20 compare to HR10 in handling closed captions on HD channels? (HD-HBO, the local HD channels, etc)


I just got an HR20 a few days ago and my wife uses closed captions. I am finding that on MOST of the HD channels the closed captions are very garbled, and only every now and then are clean. This is on almost all the local HD channels, as well as the National HD channels - especially HBO. The closed captions work fine on SD channels though.

Also, the box does not pass on the CC info to the TV via the HDMI interface, but does via the S-Video. The box's display of CC is terrible, only a few words per line and they scroll so fast as to be unreadable. Letting the TV do the CC is better, but of course then I have to use the S-Video interface - and it does not solve the garbled text problem.

In short, CC on the HR20 is a mess - especially with most HD channels. I gather you are seeing the same problems with the HR10 - which I have no experience with.

I guess I'll try calling DirecTV about this, but it sounds like there is nothing wrong with my box and this is a problem with DirecTV HD channels in general.

Fred

[tengu79]

Most important is that the HR20 receives MPEG-4 format HD broadcasts, and the H10 does not. Basically if HD locals are available in your area, you can watch them in HD on the HR20, and only in standard definition on the H10. I want my networks in HD. If you don't have HD locals in your area you can request that a waiver be submitted to the FCC and get CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX in HD (NY/LA) national networks. It seems like HR20's are sold out everywhere, but you can get them through DTV, lease fee and shipping includes installation and additional line. Some may be eligible to swap the HR10 for an HR20 at a very low rate., it seems DTV wants to get the HR10 off the market now that they are working on being the leader in HD.

Okay... no, I don't have your answer yet... but do this for me...

Please list the features of the HR10, that you want me to compare..
Over the next few days, I will go through them, and give you the comperable HR20 feature..., or if there isn't one. and vice versa (at least for features of the HR20 that the HR10 can't)

This isn't ment to be a "bash" the TiVo product thread... this is to be an objective comparison of feature sets.

And it will NOT become a "bash" either of the products...