Combine AT9 Dish w/ Existing SatC Dish? Trees!

[litzdog911]

Jump to post #164 to see a summary of proven solutions for using multiple dishes to "see" all 5 main satellite locations .....http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164



A few of us need multiple dishes to see the various DirecTV satellites through trees. Is there a way to combine an AT9 dish with existing dishes?

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/Dsc00577_small.jpg

In my case I can probably see all of the satellites, except the 110-deg SatC satellite, from one location on my house. So I'm hoping there's a way to combine my current SatC dish with a new AT9 dish. Thanks guys!

[bobnielsen]

A few of us need multiple dishes to see the various DirecTV satellites through trees. Is there a way to combine an AT9 dish with existing dishes?

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/Dsc00577_small.jpg

In my case I can probably see all of the satellites, except the 110-deg SatC satellite, from one location on my house. So I'm hoping there's a way to combine my current SatC dish with a new AT9 dish. Thanks guys!

It's probably doable, given that the 110 LNB on the AT-9 has a cable connection to the main (99/101/103) LNB/multiswitch assembly. That uses a thin cable with a small connector (much smaller than F), so if adapters are available you should be able to connect it there (the same would apply for 119). I don't recognize the connector type. so I don't know what sort of adapter would be needed or if they are even available.

[litzdog911]

It's probably doable, given that the 110 LNB on the AT-9 has a cable connection to the main (99/101/103) LNB/multiswitch assembly. That uses a thin cable with a small connector (much smaller than F), so if adapters are available you should be able to connect it there (the same would apply for 119). I don't recognize the connector type. so I don't know what sort of adapter would be needed or if they are even available.

That's encouraging! Two more questions ....

1. Anyone know where I can find closeup photos of that connector?

2. Is the AT9's SatC LNB just like the Phase III LNB? That is, do I still need to use my "SatC combiner"?

Thanks!

[litzdog911]

Looking at the photos and AT9 installation manual at SolidSignal's web site, it looks like the combo 110/119 LNBs are attached to the main LNB assembly with two RG6 coax cables.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AT59&xzoom=Large-1#xview
http://www.solidsignal.com/manuals/AT9_install_manual.pdf

Question: Are these two coax cables the same signals that I would have with my current 119-deg dish plus 110-deg/combiner dish? The 110-deg LNB is currently combined into one side of the dual output 119-deg LNB, so I'm hoping it's those same two signals.

That would be great, because I could then easily combine my existing 110-deg and 119-deg dishes to the new AT9, with the AT9 just receiving the 99/101/103-deg satellites.

I'm hoping somebody knows for sure! Thanks!

[RobertE]

The connectons between the LNBs vary between manufactuer. Calamp & Andrew use the F connector while the Winstron uses some smaller push on type.

[litzdog911]

The connectons between the LNBs vary between manufactuer. Calamp & Andrew use the F connector while the Winstron uses some smaller push on type.

Thanks, Robert.
Do you know if I can connect my existing 110-deg dish plus 119-deg dish (with the SatC combiner) to the AT9's 99/101/103-deg LNB assembly?

I'll create a diagram and post it here.

[litzdog911]

This is what I'm hoping will work to combine my existing 110-deg SatC and 119-deg SatB dishes with a new AT9 dish ....

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%201.jpg
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%202.jpg

[bobnielsen]

This is what I'm hoping will work to combine my existing 110-deg SatC and 119-deg SatB dishes with a new AT9 dish ....

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%201.jpg
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%202.jpg

Since the Sat B and Sat C inputs on the AT9 are separate you won't need to use a Sat C combiner (it's inside the main assembly). You won't need to mount the arm used for the B/C LNBs.

The connectors *may* be SMB type--I took a quick look at the cable before the installer put mine up, although they may be somewhat smaller version. The cable is much thinnerr than RG-6.

Thinking about that a bit more, the Sat-C combiner must be in the side-arm assembly, so one would be needed. Now if only they published some technical information....

[RobertE]

As Bob mentioned the 110/119 inputs are seperate. At least for the Calamp model, port 1 is the 119 input.

[litzdog911]

Since the Sat B and Sat C inputs on the AT9 are separate you won't need to use a Sat C combiner (it's inside the main assembly). You won't need to mount the arm used for the B/C LNBs.

The connectors *may* be SMB type--I took a quick look at the cable before the installer put mine up, although they may be somewhat smaller version. The cable is much thinnerr than RG-6.

Thanks, Bob!

If the SatB and SatC inputs are separate, then shouldn't there be 3 cables connections between the AT9's 110/119-LNB assembly and the 99/101/103-LNB assembly -- One coax for the SatC single output LNB and two cables for the SatB dual output LNB?

Also, do I use the special SatC LNB that's currently installed on my 110-deg dish, or swap it for a regular LNB?

Thanks again! At least it's sounding like this is do-able!

[litzdog911]

As Bob mentioned the 110/119 inputs are seperate. At least for the Calamp model, port 1 is the 119 input.

Thanks, Robert!

Do you know if the connector is a standard coax F-connector, or something different?

Also, shouldn't there be two coax connections for the 119-deg LNB since it's a dual output LNB?

[litzdog911]

Could someone post a close-up photo of the coax cable connections between the AT9's two LNB assemblies? I'm hoping for a better photo than the one I posted above where I can actually see what type of coax cable/connectors is used between these two LNB assemblies ....

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog91...0Combo%202.jpg

[bobnielsen]

Thanks, Bob!

If the SatB and SatC inputs are separate, then shouldn't there be 3 cables connections between the AT9's 110/119-LNB assembly and the 99/101/103-LNB assembly -- One coax for the SatC single output LNB and two cables for the SatB dual output LNB?

Also, do I use the special SatC LNB that's currently installed on my 110-deg dish, or swap it for a regular LNB?

Thanks again! At least it's sounding like this is do-able!

Yes, that sounds more like it. I think the current Sat C LNB and combiner should work.

[w6fxj]

Could someone post a close-up photo of the coax cable connections between the AT9's two LNB assemblies? I'm hoping for a better photo than the one I posted above where I can actually see what type of coax cable/connectors is used between these two LNB assemblies ....

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog91...0Combo%202.jpg
Jim - Here is my observations of my WNC 5-LNB dish:

1. The connectors between the main LNB and the outboard LNB are the same small push on RF connectors used on cell phones, XM radios, Garmin GPS Street Pilot units, for external antennae. I should point out that the jacks on the central LNB housing are male rather than female. The plugs on the outrigger LNB cables are female. Where as cell phones and GPS units have male on the cable and female on the equipment jack.

2. When I disconnect Port 1 (lower port) test channel 492 fails indicating Port 1 is carrying the Sat B Odd transponders.

3. When I disconnect Port 2 (upper port) test channels 493 and 494 fail, indicating that Sat B Even and Sat C transponders are carried on Port 2.

4. If I were a betting man, I think the outrigger LNB's work the very same way as the Sar B and Sat C LNB's work on the 3-LNB dishes. So, you should be able to connect your 110 and 119 dishes using the old Sat C kit combiner and hook up the sole Sat B LNB line (odd) to Port 1, and the output of the Sat B-Sat C combiner to Port 2.

5. Just a guess, but since DirecTV will probably be reducing their use of the 110 and 119 satellites for main stream subscribers, the 5-LNB dish will eventually be sold minus the outrigger 110/119 LNB assy for those who do not need it.

I have taken close-up digital photos and can post them if you wish.

[w6fxj]

Jim

Here are two photos of my 5-LNB dish 110° and 119° LNB's:

[bobnielsen]

Jim - Here is my observations of my WNC 5-LNB dish:

1. The connectors between the main LNB and the outboard LNB are the same small push on RF connectors used on cell phones, XM radios, Garmin GPS Street Pilot units, for external antennae.

2. When I disconnect Port 1 (lower port) test channel 492 fails indicating Port 2 is carrying the Sat B Odd transponders.

3. When I disconnect Port 2 (upper port) test channels 493 and 494 fail, indicating that Sat B Even and Sat C transponders are carrying Sat B Even and Sat C transponders.

4. If I were a betting man, I think the outrigger LNB's work the very same way as the Sar B and Sat C LNB's work on the 3-LNB dishes. So, you should be able to connect your 110 and 119 dishes using the old Sat C kit combiner and hook up the sole Sat B LNB line (odd) to Port 1, and the output of the Sat B-Sat C combiner to Port 2.

5. Just a guess, but since DirecTV will probably be reducing their use of the 110 and 119 satellites for main stream subscribers, the 5-LNB dish will eventually be sold minus the outrigger 110/119 LNB assy for those who do not need it.

I have taken close-up digital photos and can post them if you wish.

1) I knew I*had seen connectors like that, but didn't remember where. It shouldn't be too hard to rig up cables using those with an F on the other end and there may even be adapters available already.

5) I always wondered why DirecTV didn't try to arrange a swap of their few 110 channels with Dish Network for an equal number of 119 spots. It would have simplified things quite a bit. I suspect you may be on to something, however, since the Ka sats to be launched in 2007 should have plenty of capacity and they'll probably switch all the HD to MPEG4 (sooner than some people would like).

[litzdog911]

Thanks Bill and Bob! Bill, those photos and your tests really help! Pretty much confirms that I should be able to connect my existing SatB and SatC dishes to the those two ports as follows ....

* Port 1 connected to SatB (119-deg) dish LNB output #1 (odd transponders)
* Port 2 connected to the combined SatC (110-deg) plus SatB LNB output #2 (even transponders)

Bill:
You said that "2. When I disconnect Port 1 (lower port) test channel 492 fails indicating Port 2 is carrying the Sat B Odd transponders." Did you mean to say that "Port 1 is carrying the SatB Odd transponders?"

[w6fxj]

Bill:
You said that "2. When I disconnect Port 1 (lower port) test channel 492 fails indicating Port 2 is carrying the Sat B Odd transponders." Did you mean to say that "Port 1 is carrying the SatB Odd transponders?"

Yes, indeed!

[litzdog911]

Thanks to the information from Bill, Bob, and Robert, I think here's how my SatC and SatB dishes should connect to the AT9 main LNB assembly's two ports ....

[w6fxj]

Edited my original message to add a clarification about the connectors.

[w6fxj]

Jim

Additional information about the connectors used on the WNC 5-LNB dish. These are female MCX connectors and are available in many different configurations. They come in both 50 and 75 ohm versions. None will accept RG6 cable. I could not find MCX female to F female adapters at all. Most MCX plugs are designed to work with small coax cables similar to RG-179. You could cut off the cables on the 110/119 LNB's and attach a type F-female jack to the cut ends. Do a search for MCX connectors and you will see what is available.

[litzdog911]

Jim

Additional information about the connectors used on the WNC 5-LNB dish. These are female MCX connectors and are available in many different configurations. They come in both 50 and 75 ohm versions. None will accept RG6 cable. I could not find MCX female to F female adapters at all. Most MCX plugs are designed to work with small coax cables similar to RG-179. You could cut off the cables on the 110/119 LNB's and attach a type F-female jack to the cut ends. Do a search for MCX connectors and you will see what is available.

Thanks again, Bill! I guess some versions of the AT9 dish use F-connectors, so maybe I'll get lucky :)
Otherwise, your idea to cut the cables from the AT9's 110/119 LNB assembly and use them as an adapter for my existing RG6 cables seems reasonable. I'll need to properly waterproof, of course. I'll do some more digging to see if I can rig up some sort of adapter.

[gregftlaud]

Litzdog,

What kind of ota antenna is that in the picture you posted with your dishes in it?

Greg

[litzdog911]

Litzdog,

What kind of ota antenna is that in the picture you posted with your dishes in it?

Greg


That's a Winegard SquareShooter UHF antenna.

[vikingguy]

I will probably have to do the same thing. I was hoping it would be easy like it is now with 3 seperate dishes. I will keep up on this and wish you luck for us with major tree problems.

[litzdog911]

I will probably have to do the same thing. I was hoping it would be easy like it is now with 3 seperate dishes. I will keep up on this and wish you luck for us with major tree problems.

I'll keep this thread updated as I move ahead with the AT9 installation. So far it's looking like I should be able to combine my existing 110/SatC and 119/SatB dishes with the new AT9. With Bill Wood's help I even found an adapter for the AT9's MCX connectors to connect my existing dishes using a standard TypeF coax connector ....

http://www.whitesandsengineering.com/preview.aspx?image=MCXFFF.jpg

[w6fxj]

Jim - Here are more detailed photographs of the MCX male jacks on the side of the centeral LNB assembly. The width of the recess in the housing is 0.509 inch. The jacks are a little closer to the dish surface as can be seen here. If the adapter you get is like the link photo, there should be no problem fitting it in place. You may want to support the RG6 cables to prevent them from pulling out. If you leave the outrigger in place maybe a black tiewrap or two will hold things.

[bobnielsen]

I'll keep this thread updated as I move ahead with the AT9 installation. So far it's looking like I should be able to combine my existing 110/SatC and 119/SatB dishes with the new AT9. With Bill Wood's help I even found an adapter for the AT9's MCX connectors to connect my existing dishes using a standard TypeF coax connector ....

http://www.whitesandsengineering.com/preview.aspx?image=MCXFFF.jpg

See also:

<http://www.atxnetworks.com/pdf/MaxII_Access.pdf#search=%22mcx%20adapter%22>

They have a cable with male MCX on one end which may be easier to fit onto the AT9.

[litzdog911]

See also:

<http://www.atxnetworks.com/pdf/MaxII_Access.pdf#search=%22mcx%20adapter%22>

They have a cable with male MCX on one end which may be easier to fit onto the AT9.

Thanks for the link! I see this company also has a Female MCX to Female TypeF adapter. The cable they provide with the male MCX connector would be the wrong sex because the AT9 LNB assembly has male MCX connectors.

The link I provided to the White Sands Engineering site above also has this Female MCX to Female TypeF adapter for $7.00 each. I ordered some, so hopefully they'll work.

[litzdog911]

Jim - Here are more detailed photographs of the MCX male jacks on the side of the centeral LNB assembly. The width of the recess in the housing is 0.509 inch. The jacks are a little closer to the dish surface as can be seen here. If the adapter you get is like the link photo, there should be no problem fitting it in place. You may want to support the RG6 cables to prevent them from pulling out. If you leave the outrigger in place maybe a black tiewrap or two will hold things.

Thanks Bill!
Can you verify that those are indeed male MCX connectors on the LNB assembly? It's a bit hard to tell from those photos, but I don't notice the "cut edges" on the connectors like shown in these photos of the MCX male connector ("cut edges") and female connector ("smooth edge") ....


Bill, if it's not too much bother it would be great to have a closeup photo of your cable dongle connector (MCX female?) as well. Thanks!

[w6fxj]

Jim

Here is a close up of the female connector on the cable. The WNC male receptical has a straight barrel rather than a slight serrated lip on the end of the MCX male outer shell. I will try to contact WNC to see what they speced here. MCX conforms to European CECC 22220 spec. The diameter of the male outer shell is 0.133 or 3.3 mm, which is the MCX spec diameter.

Bill

[bobnielsen]

Thanks for the link! I see this company also has a Female MCX to Female TypeF adapter. The cable they provide with the male MCX connector would be the wrong sex because the AT9 LNB assembly has male MCX connectors.

The link I provided to the White Sands Engineering site above also has this Female MCX to Female TypeF adapter for $7.00 each. I ordered some, so hopefully they'll work.

I was thinking they could be used in conjunction with the cables supplied with the AT-9.

At that price, it sounds like the way to go. If it works, they may find a lot of new business.

[litzdog911]

Jim

Here is a close up of the female connector on the cable. The WNC male receptical has a straight barrel rather than a slight serrated lip on the end of the MCX male outer shell. I will try to contact WNC to see what they speced here. MCX conforms to European CECC 22220 spec. The diameter of the male outer shell is 0.133 or 3.3 mm, which is the MCX spec diameter.

Bill

Thanks, Bill!
So is it an MCX connector or something else? Your MCX female connector photo looks different from the MCX female connectors that I ordered. Of course, yours has a rubber jacket on the outside. Thanks for helping me solve this!

[w6fxj]

Thanks, Bill!
So is it an MCX connector or something else? Your MCX female connector photo looks different from the MCX female connectors that I ordered. Of course, yours has a rubber jacket on the outside. Thanks for helping me solve this!
Jim

While the size of both the male and female sides of the connector appear to be identical to MCX, the outer shell on the WNC female is serrated and squeezes down on the straight outer shell of the WNC male connector. So the gripping part is on the WNC female plug while the MCX male connector has a serrated expanding barrel. Then the MCX female has a straight inner sleeve that mates with the serrated MCX male jack.

The bottom line? An MCX female may not fit tightly over the WNC male jack on the central LNB housing. I say may not, rather than will not, because there may be a tight enough fit. You will not know until you try it.

I am trying to get a hold of someone at WNC to see if they know why the connector is so similar to MCX but reverses the gripping action from male to the female side. It may be a different connector classification or just a way to get around paying royalties to the MCX inventor.

Bill

[litzdog911]

I really appreciate your help, Bill. Perhaps your contact at WNC might know where they source those pigtails. I could easily adapt one with a Female TypeF connector on the end, rather than cutting off the existing AT9 pigtails.

When I get the adapters that I ordered from White Sands Engineering, perhaps I could send one to you to try out on your AT9 dish. I don't know anyone in my area that has an AT9 yet.

Thanks again!


Jim

While the size of both the male and female sides of the connector appear to be identical to MCX, the outer shell on the WNC female is serrated and squeezes down on the straight outer shell of the WNC male connector. So the gripping part is on the WNC female plug while the MCX male connector has a serrated expanding barrel. Then the MCX female has a straight inner sleeve that mates with the serrated MCX male jack.

The bottom line? An MCX female may not fit tightly over the WNC male jack on the central LNB housing. I say may not, rather than will not, because there may be a tight enough fit. You will not know until you try it.

I am trying to get a hold of someone at WNC to see if they know why the connector is so similar to MCX but reverses the gripping action from male to the female side. It may be a different connector classification or just a way to get around paying royalties to the MCX inventor.

Bill

[w6fxj]

I really appreciate your help, Bill. Perhaps your contact at WNC might know where they source those pigtails. I could easily adapt one with a Female TypeF connector on the end, rather than cutting off the existing AT9 pigtails.

When I get the adapters that I ordered from White Sands Engineering, perhaps I could send one to you to try out on your AT9 dish. I don't know anyone in my area that has an AT9 yet.

Thanks again!
I have forwarded your request to the WNC USA technical person, who is going to forward it to his engineering contact in China. I am sure they will be able to help. Maybe with the right connectors that will fit.

[doctor j]

Here is the text of a post I had at satelliteguys

Not exactly the same issue but two cal-amp dishes can be connected at significant distances apart.

:For those of you who have Line Of Sight issues but would like to upgrade to the AT-9 dish for MPEG-4 receivers I can confirm a solution.
I had proposed previously that since the Cal Amp version of the AT-9 dish has regular F connectors that 2 dishes can be connected together with regular coax cable and function as one (the side arm 110 & 119 LNB of dish #1 connected to the main 101 - 99&103 LNB housing of Dish #2). I constructed a setup as above separated by 25 feet of coax between the 2 dishes and recorded the following signal strengths using an old Hughes receiver. Unfortunately my H-20 went KAPUT on the 1st restart and could not complete the test. They are way too fragile!

Cal Amp Dish #1
101 tr 1 - 99
119 tr 22-100
110 tr 8 - 88

Cal Amp Dish #2
101 tr 1 - 99
119 tr 22-100
110 tr 8 - 82

Duo-Dish
101 tr 1 - 99
119 tr 22- 99
110 tr 8 - 87

Therefore at 25 feet there is NO significant signal deterioration with the dual dish setup.

Doctor j

[litzdog911]

Thanks doctor j!
Here's a link back to your thread at satelliteguys ....
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=73190

I see from your information there that you're using the Cal Amp dish which uses normal TypeF connectors between the two LNB assemblies instead of the MCX dongle connectors of the WNC and possibly other AT9 dishes. Do have a source for those Cal Amp dishes?

Also, I assume you still had to use the SatC Combiner Kit as I showed on my earlier connection diagrams .... special SatC LNB on the 110-deg dish combined with one side of the 119-deg LNB's dual output, right?

[bobnielsen]

Thanks doctor j!
Here's a link back to your thread at satelliteguys ....
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=73190

I see from your information there that you're using the Cal Amp dish which uses normal TypeF connectors between the two LNB assemblies instead of the MCX dongle connectors of the WNC and possibly other AT9 dishes. Do have a source for those Cal Amp dishes?

Also, I assume you still had to use the SatC Combiner Kit as I showed on my earlier connection diagrams .... special SatC LNB on the 110-deg dish combined with one side of the 119-deg LNB's dual output, right?

You might have to purchase a Cal Amp dish--most people seem to be getting Wistron as part of a free installation. Of course if the adapters work--no problem.

Does anyone else feel there are getting to be too many forums to track?

[doctor j]

Got the dishes on e-bay.
The Cal amp side arm LNB has Port 1 and Port 2 that act like even / odd polarity and are connected to the main LNB Port 1 and Port2.
Same theory as sat c setup.

Doctor j

[litzdog911]

Got the dishes on e-bay.
The Cal amp side arm LNB has Port 1 and Port 2 that act like even / odd polarity and are connected to the main LNB Port 1 and Port2.
Same theory as sat c setup.

Doctor j

OK, now I get it ....
You actually used two AT9 dishes, right? One place where it can "see" the 99/101/103 satellites, the other about 25-feet away where it can "see" the 110/119 satellites. Is that right?

[doctor j]

Correct

2 AT-9 dishes.

I'd be interested to see if using the sat b and sat c dishes with the sat c combiner into the correct ports on the main lnb would work. I bet it will.
If I can find the parts I'll try it out but will be a week or two.

Doctor J

[litzdog911]

Update ....
Just met with local installer from Ironwood Communications. He's confident that my scheme to combine my existing SatC/110 and SatB/119 dishes with a new AT9 (for 99/101/103) should work. And, luckily, they use CalAmp dishes with "normal" TypeF connectors between the two LNB assemblies instead of the smaller MCX connectors.

He's coming back tomorrow, though, because he's a bit concerned that my current 101-deg/SatA dish location might not be optimal to see the 99/101/103 birds. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[bobnielsen]

Update ....
Just met with local installer from Ironwood Communications. He's confident that my scheme to combine my existing SatC/110 and SatB/119 dishes with a new AT9 (for 99/101/103) should work. And, luckily, they use CalAmp dishes with "normal" TypeF connectors between the two LNB assemblies instead of the smaller MCX connectors.

He's coming back tomorrow, though, because he's a bit concerned that my current 101-deg/SatA dish location might not be optimal to see the 99/101/103 birds. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Interesting--I wonder if Ironwood has more than one Seattle-area office (they used the Wistron dish for my installation on July 31).

[litzdog911]

Interesting--I wonder if Ironwood has more than one Seattle-area office (they used the Wistron dish for my installation on July 31).

The guy who visited me today is based in Lynnwood. Seemed very knowledgable. Said that they currently have both CalAmp and WNC/Wistron AT9 dishes, and that they prefer the CalAmps because they don't like the little MCX connectors between the two LNB assemblies.

[litzdog911]

Update:

Thanks to the folks at Ironwood Communications in Seattle (Jim, Axel, David, Brad, Chris), I think we found a simple scheme that works! We actually did not need to add my existing 110-deg and 119-deg dishes directly to the Ka/Ku AT9 dish's input ports. In fact, we didn't even mount the 110/119 Ka/Ku AT9 dish LNBs.

Instead we connected my existing 110-deg and 119-deg dishes directly to the Zinwell multiswitch as follows ....

* Connect two cables from Ka/Ku AT9 dish outputs to the first two Zinwell WB68 multiswitch inputs (13V, 18V)
* Connect one side of 119-deg (SatB) dish LNB output to 13V/22kHz input on Zinwell multiswitch
* Connect other side of 119-deg (SatB ) dish LNB to input of SatC combiner. Connect 110-deg (SatC) dish LNB to other SatC combiner input. Connect combiner output to 18V/22kHz input on Zinwell multiswitch.

This seems to work, although we're not 100% sure that the 103-deg Ka satellite will be properly switched because the Ka/Ku dish outputs only connect to the first two Zinwell Multiswitch inputs. We couldn't fully test this because there are no signals on the 103-deg Ka satellite aimed at Seattle. If, down the road, we discover that I'm not receiving 103-deg Ka satellite signals, we'll try the scheme proposed earlier of connecting the 110-deg and 119-deg dishes directly to the inputs on the Ka/Ku AT LNB assemby.

[litzdog911]

Well, as I suspected my current wiring scheme works fine for all satellites except 103-deg.

Tonight I did some checking, bypassing the Zinwell multiswitch and connecting the Ka/Ku AT9 99/101/103 LNB outputs directly to my HR20 DVR. Discovered that there is indeed a signal from the 103-deg satellite in Seattle (reading 57 on transponder 3). This signal is not passed through the multiswitch, though, because the 99/101/103 LNB is not connected to the 22kHz inputs on the Zinwell multiswitch. That's where my combined 110/119-deg dishes are connected.

Fortunately it's not an urgent problem in Seattle because our MPEG4 channels come from the 99-deg satellite. But I will be contacting my local installers about trying my original wiring scheme as described earlier in this thread.

[Claus]

I am reading this thread and see problems, but maybe my mistake. We know 2 same cal amp AT9 dish can be remote with RG6 to help 110/119 tree problems because cal amp has F connector for 110/119 LNB. I read somebody wish to combine old style 110/119 LNB into AT9 main LNB. SBCA training said this can not be possible because AT9 use 5 volt or something in 110/119 LNB and old style need more of course. I measure AT9 before and voltage is very low to 110/119 LNB but I forgot what company AT9 I measure. If all kind AT9 use 5 volt then adaptor for WNC small connector will not work with old style LNB because voltage is low. WNC connector is not MCX, looks like SMB. If you find long cable with SMB you maybe can remote 2 WNC AT9 but much easier to get cal amp or other kind with F connector and remote. Ironwood fix should work but maybe I need to learn more about signal from AT9. Phase 3 dish also should work with WB68 if 2 cable are in port 3 and 4 of WB68 and AT9 use port 1 and 2. Good luck and tell us if something works.
Claus

[litzdog911]

I am reading this thread and see problems, but maybe my mistake. We know 2 same cal amp AT9 dish can be remote with RG6 to help 110/119 tree problems because cal amp has F connector for 110/119 LNB. I read somebody wish to combine old style 110/119 LNB into AT9 main LNB. SBCA training said this can not be possible because AT9 use 5 volt or something in 110/119 LNB and old style need more of course. I measure AT9 before and voltage is very low to 110/119 LNB but I forgot what company AT9 I measure. If all kind AT9 use 5 volt then adaptor for WNC small connector will not work with old style LNB because voltage is low. WNC connector is not MCX, looks like SMB. If you find long cable with SMB you maybe can remote 2 WNC AT9 but much easier to get cal amp or other kind with F connector and remote. Ironwood fix should work but maybe I need to learn more about signal from AT9. Phase 3 dish also should work with WB68 if 2 cable are in port 3 and 4 of WB68 and AT9 use port 1 and 2. Good luck and tell us if something works.
Claus

Thanks, Claus. I will check the LNB voltage between the two Ka/Ku AT9 LNB assemblies. I currently have a CalAmp Ka/Ku installed, but we left off the 110/119 LNB assembly. Hopefully the CalAmp dish connectors will be compatible with my existing 110/119 dish LNBs.

It will not work to connect Phase3 dish outputs to Zinwell WB68 multiswitch inputs 3 & 4, with Ka/Ku AT9 outputs only connected to multiswitch inputs 1 & 2. If the Ka/Ku AT9 outputs are not connected to multiswitch inputs 3 & 4, then you will not see the 103-deg satellite.

[bobnielsen]

Well, as I suspected my current wiring scheme works fine for all satellites except 103-deg.

Tonight I did some checking, bypassing the Zinwell multiswitch and connecting the Ka/Ku AT9 99/101/103 LNB outputs directly to my HR20 DVR. Discovered that there is indeed a signal from the 103-deg satellite in Seattle (reading 57 on transponder 3). This signal is not passed through the multiswitch, though, because the 99/101/103 LNB is not connected to the 22kHz inputs on the Zinwell multiswitch. That's where my combined 110/119-deg dishes are connected.

Fortunately it's not an urgent problem in Seattle because our MPEG4 channels come from the 99-deg satellite. But I will be contacting my local installers about trying my original wiring scheme as described earlier in this thread.

I suspect that the 57 reading on transponder 3 may be a Portland spot beam.

[zortapa]

I recently installed an Andrew 5LNB dish at my parents' house. They also have a tree problem, but it is only with SATB/119. Based on the discussion in this thread, it seems that I might be able to point their old 1LNB dish at 119 and then connect it to port 1 on the Andrew dish (RG6 and F connector). I would also leave the 110/119 assembly on the Andrew dish, but only connect the 110 LNB to port 2.

Based on your experience/research, does anyone foresee a problem with this setup?

Thanks.

[litzdog911]

I recently installed an Andrew 5LNB dish at my parents' house. They also have a tree problem, but it is only with SATB/119. Based on the discussion in this thread, it seems that I might be able to point their old 1LNB dish at 119 and then connect it to port 1 on the Andrew dish (RG6 and F connector). I would also leave the 110/119 assembly on the Andrew dish, but only connect the 110 LNB to port 2.

Based on your experience/research, does anyone foresee a problem with this setup?

Thanks.

I don't think that will work. If you only connect one of the SATB/119 LNB's two outputs to the AT9 Ka/Ku dish, then I think you'll only get half of the 119's transponders (odds or evens). In other words, I'm pretty sure that those inputs on the AT9 dish are not simply "Port 1 = 119 LNB" and "Port 2 = 110 LNB". I think those inputs represent the combined 110+119 LNBs, as shown in my earlier diagrams. You could connected both of your SATB/119 LNB outputs to those two AT9 inputs, but then you'll lose SATC/110.

But I admit I haven't actually tried connecting my existing dishes to those AT9 inputs yet.

Let's see what the other experts here think.

[Claus]

Installer training guys say that AT9 can be damage if other LNB is connect to AT9 main LNB. I measure about 5 volt on one AT9 110/119 connector, this will not power other kind LNB.
Claus
I recently installed an Andrew 5LNB dish at my parents' house. They also have a tree problem, but it is only with SATB/119. Based on the discussion in this thread, it seems that I might be able to point their old 1LNB dish at 119 and then connect it to port 1 on the Andrew dish (RG6 and F connector). I would also leave the 110/119 assembly on the Andrew dish, but only connect the 110 LNB to port 2.

Based on your experience/research, does anyone foresee a problem with this setup?

Thanks.

[zortapa]

Claus, Thanks.

[litzdog911]

Update ....

Again, major thanks to the local Ironwood crew (Ax, Nick, Jim, and others) for taking the time to test out our various theories for combining my existing 110-deg and 119-deg round dishes with a new Ka/Ku AT9 dish. Unfortunately, we discovered that the Ka/Ku AT9 is simply not compatible electrically with older existing LNBs, so we were not able to combine those.

Fortunately we were successful using two Ka/Ku AT9 dishes at different spots on my house, one for 99/101/103-deg satellites (using the AT9's main LNB), and one for 110/119-deg (using the secondary LNBs) mounted about 25-feet away from the main dish. The secondary LNB of the 110/119-deg dish is connected to the side inputs on the main LNB of the 99/101/103-deg dish. Fortunately the CalAmp dishes we had still use suitable TypeF coax connectors. The newer WNC dishes use goofy mini-connectors (not MCX-style as we initially thought). So this project would be very difficult using WNC dishes unless you crafted your own cables.

I've attached updated diagrams and photos ....

Diagram 1: Our original idea to connect my existing 110-deg/119-deg dishes and existing "SatC Combiner" to the side inputs on the CalAmp AT9 dish. Our hope was that the old dishes would look electrically the same to the AT9 dish as its own side arm 110/119 LNB. Unfortunately, not the case. We suspect, as some of you told me, that the voltage levels from the AT9 main LNBs are too low for older style LNBs.

Diagrams 2 & 3: Connecting two outputs from the Ka/Ku AT9 dish to two of the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch inputs, along with two inputs from the original combined SatC/SatB dishes, sort of works. As long as you don't care about the new 103-deg Ka satellite. Receivers connected to the multiswitch with this configuration will see all satellites except 103-deg. We did try using the Zinwell Flexports with the 110-deg and 119-deg satellite LNBs in various combinations, but those did not work either.

Diagram 4: This one works! My final scheme using two Ka/Ku dishes mounted about 25' apart, one receiving 99/101/103-deg satellites and the other receiving 110/119-deg satellites. The remote 110/119-deg AT9 LNB is connected to the two input ports of the main AT9 dish (port 1 to port 1, port 2 to port 2). This scheme works fine.

Photos 1, 2 & 3: My final installation. Went from three 18" dishes to 2 Ka/Ku AT9 dishes. The lower dish receives the 99/101/103 satellites and has the higher dish's 110/119 LNB connected to it. Let's hope the wife approves :)

[carl6]

Let's hope the wife approves :)

The age old "man" saying:

It is easier to ask forgiveness than permission.:D

Carl

[bobnielsen]

Isn't that why jewelry was invented?

[doctor j]

litzdog911

Glad to here things worked out.
I knew the two AT-9 Cal Amp solution would work as I had reported.
Unfortunately if one needs to "see" 101 110 &119 from 3 different sites the solution really gets complicated.
Thanks for reporting all your hard work.
Hope you get to enjoy it soon

Doctor j

[Davenlr]

Litzdog, got a question for you. I am in the same situation, and Ironwood agreed to just drop off the dish later in the week, since they said they would not be able to install it in my situation. I want to run this scenario by you all, and see if you think it will work......

Current setup, 3' dish, standard dual LNB for 119
24" dish, with combiner for 110
regular dish with dual lnb for 101

Run to a multiswitch under the house. Now, will this work:

Install new 5 lnb dish at location current 101 dish is, which will be able to see the three sats around 101. Wont see either 110 or 119. Set this up as if it could see them. If plugged into receiver it would receive main sat and two new ones. BUT instead of plugging it into the receiver, plug it into the 101 input of the current multiswitch. Since the receiver sends a 22khz tone to switch from to the two western sats, the old multiswitch would use the old dishes I currently have, but when the tone was removed, it would "look" to the new dish, with the three active lnbs instead. Would this work, or is the output of the multiswitch on the new 5 lnb dish not compatable with the input on the old multiswitch? I could get two new dishes, but would rather utilize the current ones, since the 3' dish doesnt rain fade, and all transponders peg out at full strength, and it would save me a considerable amount of money not having to buy a second 5 lnb dish.

Ideas?

[bobnielsen]

Litzdog, got a question for you. I am in the same situation, and Ironwood agreed to just drop off the dish later in the week, since they said they would not be able to install it in my situation. I want to run this scenario by you all, and see if you think it will work......

Current setup, 3' dish, standard dual LNB for 119
24" dish, with combiner for 110
regular dish with dual lnb for 101

Run to a multiswitch under the house. Now, will this work:

Install new 5 lnb dish at location current 101 dish is, which will be able to see the three sats around 101. Wont see either 110 or 119. Set this up as if it could see them. If plugged into receiver it would receive main sat and two new ones. BUT instead of plugging it into the receiver, plug it into the 101 input of the current multiswitch. Since the receiver sends a 22khz tone to switch from to the two western sats, the old multiswitch would use the old dishes I currently have, but when the tone was removed, it would "look" to the new dish, with the three active lnbs instead. Would this work, or is the output of the multiswitch on the new 5 lnb dish not compatable with the input on the old multiswitch? I could get two new dishes, but would rather utilize the current ones, since the 3' dish doesnt rain fade, and all transponders peg out at full strength, and it would save me a considerable amount of money not having to buy a second 5 lnb dish.

Ideas?

There appear to be two problems doing that.

1. Your current multiswitch may not pass the 250-750 and/or 1650-2150 outputs of the Ka LNBs. That could be easily rectified with a WB68 but:

2. As Litzdog911 found out, the 103 LNB also uses the 22 kHz signal. When the 22 kHz signal is missing 99 is output in addition to 101 (remember these are different frequencies so they won't interfere). Likewise, 103 is ouput in addition to 110/119 when the tone is present).

There may be a way to make it work with three dishes but it would require modifying the 110/119 interconnection circuitry to have separate inputs, which is probably achievable, but not an easy task. It's unfortunate that the 13/18 volt polarization switching scheme wasn't carried through to the new 110/119 LNBs. Hopefully one of the dish manufacturers will come up with a practical solution allowing three separate dishes.

Of course there is also the "chainsaw" solution :D

[Davenlr]

So the voltage on the two sidemounted lnbs of the new dish are lower voltage and wont power standard lnbs is the way I am taking this. If this is the case, there may be a power block, power injector such as those used for mast mounted amps which could be inserted into the lines from the main dish to the external western lnbs could work, if the port 1 and port 2 is the equivilent of the two inputs of a standard multiswitch, and not actually separate one ten and nineteen inputs where the nineteen is only using one output and voltage switched between polarities. Do you know which it is?

[bobnielsen]

So the voltage on the two sidemounted lnbs of the new dish are lower voltage and wont power standard lnbs is the way I am taking this. If this is the case, there may be a power block, power injector such as those used for mast mounted amps which could be inserted into the lines from the main dish to the external western lnbs could work, if the port 1 and port 2 is the equivilent of the two inputs of a standard multiswitch, and not actually separate one ten and nineteen inputs where the nineteen is only using one output and voltage switched between polarities. Do you know which it is?

Yes, the two ports on the main (99/101/103) are for the combined Sat B (119) and Sat C (110) signals. One would have to make some measurements but I am pretty sure one could create a switching circuit to convert the lower switching voltage to the 13/18v used for normal 110/119 LNBs. I hadn't thought of that, but it sounds easier than trying to modify the AT-9 LNB assembly. I think that just might work. I wonder why they went to the lower voltages on the AT-9 (it could be that the internal voltages on all the LNBs converted to a lower value and it made sense to do that in the main assembly of the AT-9). Any DTV/Wistron/Cal Amp/Andrew designers on this forum?

This thing intrigues me. I wish I had a spare AT-9 to dissect. I'm almost tempted to drag my oscilloscope up to the roof (my wife would have a fit--I'm supposed to be retired!)

Bob

[Davenlr]

How about two passive combiners and two DC blocks. Put the blocks in line between port 1 and 2 inputs on the new dish and the two combiners. Then plug the other input on the combiner to an old powered multiswitch. THe two voltages would go to the old two LNBs and the voltage from the new dish would be blocked, but the signal would still travel through the block back to the dish. WOuld this work, or will a DC block and Combiner inline attenuate the KA band signal to much?

[litzdog911]

How about two passive combiners and two DC blocks. Put the blocks in line between port 1 and 2 inputs on the new dish and the two combiners. Then plug the other input on the combiner to an old powered multiswitch. THe two voltages would go to the old two LNBs and the voltage from the new dish would be blocked, but the signal would still travel through the block back to the dish. WOuld this work, or will a DC block and Combiner inline attenuate the KA band signal to much?


Interesting idea. That might work. But I'm also wondering if the Ka band signals would be attenuated too much. You would need very high quality DC block and combiner.

The other problem is that we were never able to determine if the 110/119 LNB assembly provides the same signals as the older 110+119 LNB with combiner. We know that the voltages are wrong, and that's why we couldn't see anything when connecting my existing 110 and 119 dishes/LNBs to the new AT9 main 99/101/103 LNB assembly. But it's also possible that the new 110/119 LNB assembly does not have the combiner internally, or that the combiner is actually inside the 99/101/103 LNB assembly. I tried several avenues to get a schematic from my contacts at DirecTV with no success.

Do keep us posted with your results.

[Davenlr]

I would assume the combiner is not inside the SAT A/KA LNB since you said your method of using your old SAT B/C dishes using the multiswitch input worked, minus the one new KA sat, which showed you used the combiner on the outside. Ill check and see if I can find a two port combiner and DC Block rated for 2.5GHz and if its cheap enough, Ill give it a try, otherwise Ill probably just order a second 5 lnb dish like you did. Im just not really sure I can see SAT B and SAT C from a single location in my yard without getting out the chainsaw, and three of the new dishes is not really what I want hanging off my house. The current ones are ground mounted, and quite hidden by shrubs.

[Davenlr]

Well, being unable to find the parts rated for 2GHz, I just bit the bullet and ordered a second Andrews AT9 from Summit for $93. Ive spotted a location where I can pick up 110/119, and another spot where I can pick up 99/101/103, so Ill set my system up like yours, using 2" ground mounted pipes in a little quickcrete, and hopefully Ill be in good shape until the trees grow a little more, then Ill have to figure something else out. If Im really lucky, they will quit using 119 when they get all the HD stuff on the new sats, and I wont have to worry about it, since I could care less about SD locals.

[litzdog911]

Well, being unable to find the parts rated for 2GHz, I just bit the bullet and ordered a second Andrews AT9 from Summit for $93. Ive spotted a location where I can pick up 110/119, and another spot where I can pick up 99/101/103, so Ill set my system up like yours, using 2" ground mounted pipes in a little quickcrete, and hopefully Ill be in good shape until the trees grow a little more, then Ill have to figure something else out. If Im really lucky, they will quit using 119 when they get all the HD stuff on the new sats, and I wont have to worry about it, since I could care less about SD locals.

Keep us posted on your results. My setup is still working fine.

[Davenlr]

Well, I was hoping to be able to update you on how it worked, except Summit Source sent me the wrong dish. I ordered the Andrews AT9 and after UPS figured out where I lived (since the address on the shipping label was wrong), they delivered a Westron dish with the little connectors from hell, so now Im in the process of trying to get them to replace it with the Andrews I was supposed to get, this after spending $37 on shipping alone. Im getting really frustrated. Cable is looking better every day.

[Lowry666]

Hey Litzdog,
I was looking at the pics you posted and I got to thinking about something. The connectors look alot like the one on my Sirius receiver. Guess what, they are the same. You can use the Sirius antenna extension cable to do the 2 dish method if you're like me and having trouble finding a CAL/AMP dish.

Take care,
Lowry

[Davenlr]

How long are the extension cables for Sirius? Would it be possible to cut the end off one of them, and solder on a F-connector female? Are the LNB's for the Winstrom the same voltages as the Andrews???

[litzdog911]

Hey Litzdog,
I was looking at the pics you posted and I got to thinking about something. The connectors look alot like the one on my Sirius receiver. Guess what, they are the same. You can use the Sirius antenna extension cable to do the 2 dish method if you're like me and having trouble finding a CAL/AMP dish.

Take care,
Lowry


Sweet! Do you have a reliable online source for those extension cables?

[litzdog911]

How long are the extension cables for Sirius? Would it be possible to cut the end off one of them, and solder on a F-connector female? Are the LNB's for the Winstrom the same voltages as the Andrews???

I think you would still want to use two AT9's from the same manufacturer rather than mix them.

I found this information about the Sirius extension cables at eBay ....
http://cgi.ebay.com/SIRIUS-50-ANTENNA-EXTENSION-CABLE-NEW-TERK-SIR-EXT50_W0QQitemZ190035748493QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like the AT9 connectors are standard SMB type. Unfortunately this particular Sirius cable includes a 10dB amplifier that you don't want to use with the AT9 dish. But SMB extension cables shouldn't be too hard to find.

[Lowry666]

BB and the like want 50 bucks for them. I have seen them in most of their stores. I found a guy on ebay that has them for about the same price including shipping. I am not sure if they use RG58 for them and don't know if putting an F on them would be worth the hassle as opposed to the adapters listed earlier in this thread. Also the length on them is 50 feet. If I can find a cheaper source I will definately post it here.


Lowry

[Davenlr]

I didnt see any adapters listed earlier, must have missed them. If I can find an adapter, then I guess I can just install this other dish they sent, hopefully the LNBs use the same voltages. Ok, I found that part of the thread.

Litzdog, did those connectors you ordered fit or did you need to modify them? The $8 ones. If they work, I guess Ill just go ahead and use this dish I have, and buy two of those adapters...

[litzdog911]

I didnt see any adapters listed earlier, must have missed them. If I can find an adapter, then I guess I can just install this other dish they sent, hopefully the LNBs use the same voltages. Ok, I found that part of the thread.

Litzdog, did those connectors you ordered fit or did you need to modify them? The $8 ones. If they work, I guess Ill just go ahead and use this dish I have, and buy two of those adapters...

Not, the MCX-style connectors are not the correct ones. Lowry666 just reported that they're SMB connectors, the same ones that Sirius uses on their antenna extension cables. See the previous post. And let us know your results.

[litzdog911]

XM must use the same connectors ....
I found this SMB-to-TypeF coax adapter ....
http://www.myradiostore.us/xm-signal-distribution/f-jack-smb-plug-adapter.html

Just need to make sure you're getting the correct "sex" adapters. Closely study the photos earlier in this thread.

[Davenlr]

Ok, thanks. If they wont make good on the Andrews I tried to buy, Ill try that route. Couldnt really tell from the picture if it was a male or female. Guess I can go to Best Buy and look at a XM radio and see if it has the same sex as the satellite lnb.

[litzdog911]

Ok, thanks. If they wont make good on the Andrews I tried to buy, Ill try that route. Couldnt really tell from the picture if it was a male or female. Guess I can go to Best Buy and look at a XM radio and see if it has the same sex as the satellite lnb.


Let us know what you find out.

[Davenlr]

Summit Source agreed to send me another Andrews, so hopefully I wont be needing to worry about the SMB connectors. Thanks guys.

[Davenlr]

I saw somewhere where there was a list of what channels were on which directv satellite/transponder, but I cant find it. Anyone know where its at?
Im trying to figure out whats on 99 and whats on 103

[bobnielsen]

I saw somewhere where there was a list of what channels were on which directv satellite/transponder, but I cant find it. Anyone know where its at?
Im trying to figure out whats on 99 and whats on 103

Try http://www.lyngsat.com/america.html. It may not be up-to-date with the latest additions, but should be pretty close.

[Davenlr]

Yea, Ive seen that one, but there was another page that listed which channels were on which satellite...

Like:
Discovery HD 110W Tr 12

Im curious whats on the two KA satellites. I have one dish up and running, waiting on UPS to deliver the second one. I am getting 99 transponder 6, and was curious what was on it.

[bobnielsen]

Yea, Ive seen that one, but there was another page that listed which channels were on which satellite...

Like:
Discovery HD 110W Tr 12

Im curious whats on the two KA satellites. I have one dish up and running, waiting on UPS to deliver the second one. I am getting 99 transponder 6, and was curious what was on it.

These will tell you which satellite but not which transponder or spotbeam:

http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa99.html
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa103.html

I haven't seen any transponder or spotbeam maps for 99 or 103.

[Davenlr]

Ok, thanks. Thats what I was looking for. So, does that mean that if I am getting a 90 signal strength on tr 6 of the 99 sat, that I am picking up the spot beam for Kansas City (200 miles away), since thats the only city listed there anywhere near me? I couldnt find a national "test channel" for the 99 bird, like the other three KU sats.

[bobnielsen]

Ok, thanks. Thats what I was looking for. So, does that mean that if I am getting a 90 signal strength on tr 6 of the 99 sat, that I am picking up the spot beam for Kansas City (200 miles away), since thats the only city listed there anywhere near me? I couldnt find a national "test channel" for the 99 bird, like the other three KU sats.

Probably, unless they are planning to activate another area and the transponder is being tested. 90 sounds a bit high for 200 miles away (I am getting ~55 for the Portland, OR transponder and Portland is approx 200 miles from me) but it depends a lot on where the spot is centered.

It would be nice if they had test channels for 99 and 103, but since they use the same logic as 101 and 110/119 the current test channels will verify that the receiver is putting out the correct signals.

[Davenlr]

If you know how this works, could you run it down for me? Im good with 101, and 119. 110 adds the 3 transponders to "blanks" on 119, so the receiver thinks 110 and 119 are the same, if I have it straight. The receiver sends 13V for one polarity, 19V for the other, and the 22khz tone switches between 101 and 110/119... Now, two KA sats, how it the receiver "requesting" those be sent, or are they both going to be "always there", one downconverted to 250MHz and one above the KU band? How are they switched? I understand you need the 22KHz tone for the 103. How does the receiver know you want 103 and not 110/119? I really cant find all the info in one place. I like to know how things work in my system, makes fixing or souping it up a lot easier.

[litzdog911]

If you know how this works, could you run it down for me? Im good with 101, and 119. 110 adds the 3 transponders to "blanks" on 119, so the receiver thinks 110 and 119 are the same, if I have it straight. The receiver sends 13V for one polarity, 19V for the other, and the 22khz tone switches between 101 and 110/119... Now, two KA sats, how it the receiver "requesting" those be sent, or are they both going to be "always there", one downconverted to 250MHz and one above the KU band? How are they switched? I understand you need the 22KHz tone for the 103. How does the receiver know you want 103 and not 110/119? I really cant find all the info in one place. I like to know how things work in my system, makes fixing or souping it up a lot easier.


The Ka-band satellites use different frequency bands on your coax cable, that's why different satellites can be selected using the same voltage/switching frequency. Watched the AT9 installation videos for a nice explanation of how the signals are sent down the coax cables ....

http://www.solidsignal.com/dtvkuka

[Davenlr]

Thanks, Ive watched them... So to get 103, it sends the 22khz tone, and the multiswitch sends 110/119 AND 103 at the same time, on KU/KA, Is that correct? If so, moving on to my next question....

Which satellite is sent back using the Baseband converters? 99 or 103? It appears from the conversations, most people having problems with their system are removing them, and its still working ok. Shouldnt they be losing one of the satellites if they remove them?

[bobnielsen]

Thanks, Ive watched them... So to get 103, it sends the 22khz tone, and the multiswitch sends 110/119 AND 103 at the same time, on KU/KA, Is that correct? If so, moving on to my next question....

Which satellite is sent back using the Baseband converters? 99 or 103? It appears from the conversations, most people having problems with their system are removing them, and its still working ok. Shouldnt they be losing one of the satellites if they remove them?

Yes, the 22 kHz tone is used for 110/119 plus 103 and absence of that tone is used for 101 plus 99. The LNB output is 950-1450 MHz for 101 and 110/119.

The Ka Band is split and the LNB outputs 250-750 MHz or 1650-2150 MHz, depending on which part of the band is used. If it is 1650-2150, this is input directly into the receiver. If the output is 250-750, the B-Band Converter translates this to 1650-2150. I believe that the current 99 and 103 satellties both only use frequencies which result in the 1650-2150 output, which is why the systems work without the converter being attached. The receiver will select 99 or 103 by use of the 22 kHz tone, as with 101 and 110/119. Future satellites (Directv 10 and 11) to be launched next year will probably use the other frequency range and require use of the converter.

There will have to be some method of turning the converter on and off. I suspect that a tone from the receiver will be used, but no technical details have been released.

I'm not sure why the baseband converter is external to the receiver. Maybe the receiver design was too far along at the time this scheme was devised to allow it to be internal.

Caveat--much of what I just said is the result of observation with a little speculation and may not be completely correct (I have no inside knowledge).

[Davenlr]

OK, thats great. Good information. Dont know why they are so secretive about it. You would think it would help installers and consumers alike, if they make the operations general knowlege. In any case, I noticed the receiver has one port labeled FTM, but not the other one, so maybe they originally only planned on using the low band on one tuner, and changed their minds to late?? Be nice if a D* engineer would actually get online here and answer questions. Would be great for their PR, and help the heck out of people like me fighting to get the system working well in a forest :)

[bobnielsen]

OK, thats great. Good information. Dont know why they are so secretive about it. You would think it would help installers and consumers alike, if they make the operations general knowlege. In any case, I noticed the receiver has one port labeled FTM, but not the other one, so maybe they originally only planned on using the low band on one tuner, and changed their minds to late?? Be nice if a D* engineer would actually get online here and answer questions. Would be great for their PR, and help the heck out of people like me fighting to get the system working well in a forest :)

The FTM port is for use with a future Frequency Translation Module which will allow using a single cable to feed several tuners (like a stacker does).

[Davenlr]

Ok, great. Just one more question and Ill leave you alone... Does the AT9 have the capability of receiving KA at 101 as well as KU? Reason I ask, the satellite they just launched has 2 KA transponders on it, along with its compliment of KU's. Can see them just letting them sit there unused, or maybe they plan to use them for some type of backhaul?

[litzdog911]

Ok, great. Just one more question and Ill leave you alone... Does the AT9 have the capability of receiving KA at 101 as well as KU? Reason I ask, the satellite they just launched has 2 KA transponders on it, along with its compliment of KU's. Can see them just letting them sit there unused, or maybe they plan to use them for some type of backhaul?

I don't think that the 101-deg LNB receives both Ku and the newer Ka-band signals, but I could be wrong. I do know that the current satellites at 101-deg W just use Ka-band for backhaul links, not beaming channels to us. It's a safe bet, though, the the AT9 Ka/Ku 5-LNB dish should be the last DirecTV dish that we'll need for at least a few years.

[Davenlr]

It's a safe bet, though, the the AT9 Ka/Ku 5-LNB dish should be the last DirecTV dish that we'll need for at least a few years.

Hope so, my garage after this week, will have two 18" dishes, one 24" dish, one 36" dish, and one Phase III multisat dish sitting in it, with two nice new AT9's mounted on masts next to the house. Now, if the trees dont grow to fast, I wont have to sneak up my neighbors tree at night to cut down ONE stupid limb that seems intent on blocking 110.

[litzdog911]

Hope so, my garage after this week, will have two 18" dishes, one 24" dish, one 36" dish, and one Phase III multisat dish sitting in it, with two nice new AT9's mounted on masts next to the house. Now, if the trees dont grow to fast, I wont have to sneak up my neighbors tree at night to cut down ONE stupid limb that seems intent on blocking 110.

I know the feeling! In my garage I now have ....
* 1 old Sony 18" dish/LNB
* 3 Winegard 18" dish/LNBs
* SatC kit, including special 110-deg satellite LNB
* 1 old Phase III dish/LNBs
* spare AT9 main 99/101/103 LNB assembly
* spare AT9 110/119 LNB assembly
* several multiswitches

[Davenlr]

Thanks for the help guys, Now have both AT9's installed on poles on the south side of the house.
101 signal is 95-100
110 signal is 85-95
119 signal is 94-100
99 signal is 92 on tr 6 (only one coming in)
103 signal is 0,92,0,94,0,92

I guess Im only getting one polarization from 103, or maybe there arent any signals on the other transponders, dont know, but I am assuming its working ok, since I can get something on all 5. I have not installed the base band converters yet, as I was told I dont need them until next year when the new satellites go up.

[bobnielsen]

Thanks for the help guys, Now have both AT9's installed on poles on the south side of the house.
101 signal is 95-100
110 signal is 85-95
119 signal is 94-100
99 signal is 92 on tr 6 (only one coming in)
103 signal is 0,92,0,94,0,92

I guess Im only getting one polarization from 103, or maybe there arent any signals on the other transponders, dont know, but I am assuming its working ok, since I can get something on all 5. I have not installed the base band converters yet, as I was told I dont need them until next year when the new satellites go up.

That's normal for 99 and 103, since all transponders use spot beams. I only see one weak one on 103 and the H20 doesn't display anything for 99 because of a software glitch.

With the Slimline dishes replacing At-9s. combining two dishes becomes much more difficult.

[Davenlr]

Shame too. These Andrews dishes zeroed right in on the sats, with presets, and the fine adjustments made peaking a breeze. I passed on the directv approved method, and used the signal meter on the receiver, since I didnt have to worry about 110 and 119 when I peaked the main dish. It was real easy to peak using the signal off the KA sat. Just wish the HR20 had a audio level output. Beats having a friend yelling out the door, 88, NOPE, 90, Opps, go back. hahaha

[bobnielsen]

Shame too. These Andrews dishes zeroed right in on the sats, with presets, and the fine adjustments made peaking a breeze. I passed on the directv approved method, and used the signal meter on the receiver, since I didnt have to worry about 110 and 119 when I peaked the main dish. It was real easy to peak using the signal off the KA sat. Just wish the HR20 had a audio level output. Beats having a friend yelling out the door, 88, NOPE, 90, Opps, go back. hahaha

Andrew has a good reputation. They have been in the antenna and cable business for a long time.

I watched the new installation videos. They have changed the adjustment stuff a bit (it is the same for either dish), but it's pretty close to the old method. Apparently with the Slimline, the design is the same no matter who is the manufacturer. There doesn't appear to be an easy way to combine separate dishes for 99/101/103 and 110/119 since the connections are internal.

[Viper67857]

There may be a way to make it work with three dishes but it would require modifying the 110/119 interconnection circuitry to have separate inputs, which is probably achievable, but not an easy task. It's unfortunate that the 13/18 volt polarization switching scheme wasn't carried through to the new 110/119 LNBs. Hopefully one of the dish manufacturers will come up with a practical solution allowing three separate dishes.

Of course there is also the "chainsaw" solution :D

just a thoery, but i think the following diagram should work (connect the multiswitch to the power-passing side of splitter, at9 lnb to non-passing side):

[P Smith]

<skip>
Caveat--much of what I just said is the result of observation with a little speculation and may not be completely correct (I have no inside knowledge).

Here is more accurate info on page#3: http://www.hometech.com/pdf/gc-wb68.pdf
BBC will up-convert Ka-Lo (250-750 MHz) into A Band(1650-2150 MHZ) by signal from H[R]20.
Question is what kind of signal the BBC module require ?

[bobnielsen]

That agrees with what I posted. I haven't seen any description of the signal which activates the BBC module. Probably a tone (other than 22 kHz). Likewise for 72.5 or 95 to select those with a multiswitch.

[P Smith]

lets keep looking, probably some other day will bring technical paper what will reveal the signaling ...

[Davenlr]

just a thoery, but i think the following diagram should work (connect the multiswitch to the power-passing side of splitter, at9 lnb to non-passing side):

That could work, however, I noticed in testing, that voltage was only supplied to the 110/119 LNB when the 22khz tone was supplied to the main multiswitch. I dont guess it would matter if power was on all the time though. This is the method I was going to use, until I found a spot where I could see both 110 and 119 from a single dish, so I ended up buying a second AT9.

[litzdog911]

just a thoery, but i think the following diagram should work (connect the multiswitch to the power-passing side of splitter, at9 lnb to non-passing side):

Using another 2x4 or 2x8 multiswitch to provide power to "force" the correct transponders/polarization on each side of the 119+110 signal might just work. I wish we would have had this diagram before I took down my 110 and 119-deg dishes!

The main problem might still be whether the AT9 dish's main LNB assembly is electrically compatible with the signals coming from the powered 110+119 combination. Several experts claim that the AT9 using a different voltage/switching scheme from its internal multiswitch, making it incompatible with other dishes using 13/18V.

Hopefully somebody can try out your idea and post back their results.

[litzdog911]

That could work, however, I noticed in testing, that voltage was only supplied to the 110/119 LNB when the 22khz tone was supplied to the main multiswitch. I dont guess it would matter if power was on all the time though. This is the method I was going to use, until I found a spot where I could see both 110 and 119 from a single dish, so I ended up buying a second AT9.

Yes, that's what I wound up doing, too .... using two AT9's. But hopefully somebody can test your scheme. I no longer have my round dishes, plus it's too rainy in Seattle now :)

[fo71]

Anyone able to try the last scheme utilizing an additional multi switch as power supply along with splitters with dc block on one end?

How about forgetting about AT9 all along.... are there external or independant LNB's for KA 99/103 that could be combined with a typical 3 separate (101,110,119) ku installation? Might be able to endup with 5 separate dihes....

Suggestions, comments welcomed !


Happy Holidays !

[litzdog911]

Anyone able to try the last scheme utilizing an additional multi switch as power supply along with splitters with dc block on one end?

How about forgetting about AT9 all along.... are there external or independant LNB's for KA 99/103 that could be combined with a typical 3 separate (101,110,119) ku installation? Might be able to endup with 5 separate dihes....

Suggestions, comments welcomed !


Happy Holidays !

I am also hoping that somebody will try the scheme with additional multiswitch & power supplies.

Unfortunately there don't seem to be any standalone Ka-band LNBs that could be used in single LNB dishes. The AT9 and SlimLine dishes are not that simple, either, due to the frequency band translation that occurs inside their LNBs and integrated multiswitch to enable reception of odd & even transponders from five different satellites.

[ericlhyman]

Are the DirecTV contracted installers only using the Slimline now or will they use 2 AT9s if necessary to get all satellites from 99 to 119 in locations that are difficult due to tall trees?

What are the dimensions of the AT9 and the Slimline? If the latter is smaller, isn't it likely to have more difficulty getting all satellites than one AT9 or more susceptibility to rain fade?

[bobnielsen]

The AT-9 is about 25 in high by 30 in. wide. I think the Slimline is slightly wider but not as tall. Depending on the beamwidth of the feed horns, the gain and rain fade performance probably aren't all that different.

[litzdog911]

Are the DirecTV contracted installers only using the Slimline now or will they use 2 AT9s if necessary to get all satellites from 99 to 119 in locations that are difficult due to tall trees?

What are the dimensions of the AT9 and the Slimline? If the latter is smaller, isn't it likely to have more difficulty getting all satellites than one AT9 or more susceptibility to rain fade?

1. Over the next several months it will become harder to find the older AT9 dishes, especially the CalAmp versions with the RG6 interconnections. It would probably be considered a "special" installation to use two AT9 dishes, so you would have to negotiate with the installation company ahead of time.

2. Actually, folks have reported slightly better signal readings with the Slimline compared to the AT9, probably due to improved geometry and better LNB performance (sensitivity, noise figure, etc.).

[ericlhyman]

With the Slimline, is it easier or harder to get the 110 and 119 sats than with the 3-LNB Elliptical Dish?

[Kirkman]

With the first two ports marked (13v) on the WB68 multiswitch. You would hook these directly to the AT9 Dish (this would pickup the satellites 101-99-103) Now remember we do not have the alt LNB for the 110/119 connected.
On the next two ports marked (22v) on the WB68 you would hookup the feeds from the 119 and the 110 using the combiner. Now you can pickup satellites 99,101,103, and 110,119 using separate dishes....

:D

[Kirkman]

Correction on my post above...
The AT9 hooks to the 13v and 18v two first ports and the 110 and 119 using a combiner to the second 13 and 18v ports. These are 22khz ports.

[bobnielsen]

I believe that is what litzdog911 tried first and his system did not recognize 103. I think this indicates that 103 is selected using the same logic as 110/119.

[litzdog911]

Correction on my post above...
The AT9 hooks to the 13v and 18v two first ports and the 110 and 119 using a combiner to the second 13 and 18v ports. These are 22khz ports.

No, this does not work. See my earlier posts in this thread.

[litzdog911]

With the Slimline, is it easier or harder to get the 110 and 119 sats than with the 3-LNB Elliptical Dish?

No difference. It depends on where your dish is located, not what type of dish you have.

[ItsMeJTO]

Here is more accurate info on page#3: http://www.hometech.com/pdf/gc-wb68.pdf
BBC will up-convert Ka-Lo (250-750 MHz) into A Band(1650-2150 MHZ) by signal from H[R]20.
Question is what kind of signal the BBC module require ?

Quickie:
What are sats 72.5" and 95" used for ?

[Tom Robertson]

72.5 and 95 are local SD channels and international programming. Lyngsat.com will tell you which is which.

Cheers,
Tom

[litzdog911]

Quickie:
What are sats 72.5" and 95" used for ?


http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa72.html

http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa95.html

[mayweb]

First of all this thread is priceless. I had researched doing this way back when but never found the time. Since AT9s are getting in short supply, has anybody looked at what it might take to do this with the newer generation Slimline AU9? Or should I just look for fire sales on AT9s to get around my trees? (I need seperate 110 and 119)

[litzdog911]

First of all this thread is priceless. I had researched doing this way back when but never found the time. Since AT9s are getting in short supply, has anybody looked at what it might take to do this with the newer generation Slimline AU9? Or should I just look for fire sales on AT9s to get around my trees? (I need seperate 110 and 119)

I can't think of any way to combine together two Slimline dishes because the LNBs are combined into one housing. You should be able to find original AT9 dishes still via eBay, SolidSignal, etc.

[Hamese]

I am in the process of trying to combine a 110 signal from a single 18" dish and the SatC kit with the Slimline dish/signals. I get everything but the 110 (119 is fine) and at first I thought it was the LNB, but now it could be the trees... not sure.

I have the second dish aimed and I plan on doing some experimenting, but I think the long run will have me taking apart the slimline lnb unit to add in my own 110 signal before the built in multiswitch. That should work, but the question is whether or not I can successfully get into the LNB unit, so this is the last resort.

My question is why would I not be able to run my 110 signal to the 95 or 72 input on the multiswitch and configure my recieve to use the extra sat?

[Hamese]

SO FAR I HAVE IT WORKING!

I was able to combine a single 18" dish with the SatC kit into a setup with the Slimline. I pointed my single dish to the 110W sat and used the combiner included in the kit to add the 110W signal to the 6x8 multiplexer. To do that I had to combine it with one of the four lines coming from the builtin multiplexer on the slimline. Then I took the output of the combiner and placed on the third input on the 6x8. The third input is the 18v 22KHz which is the only thing that the combiner passes anyway.

I hooked up my H20 and started to pick up the 110, which has been the only thing missing. I now am recieving all the HD programming, and my locals that are broadcast from the 103.

I'll post if anything isn't right, but I think it is all good... I would post a pic/drawing, but I do not have enough posts yet, lol, I will have to post after I reach 5 posts.

[Hamese]

I made the post count, so here is the picture. I tried to "edit" the last post so I wouldn't have multiples. However, I was not able to attach the files under the edit window.

[litzdog911]

SO FAR I HAVE IT WORKING!

I was able to combine a single 18" dish with the SatC kit into a setup with the Slimline. I pointed my single dish to the 110W sat and used the combiner included in the kit to add the 110W signal to the 6x8 multiplexer. To do that I had to combine it with one of the four lines coming from the builtin multiplexer on the slimline. Then I took the output of the combiner and placed on the third input on the 6x8. The third input is the 18v 22KHz which is the only thing that the combiner passes anyway.

I hooked up my H20 and started to pick up the 110, which has been the only thing missing. I now am recieving all the HD programming, and my locals that are broadcast from the 103.

I'll post if anything isn't right, but I think it is all good... I would post a pic/drawing, but I do not have enough posts yet, lol, I will have to post after I reach 5 posts.

Very interesting! Yes, please post your wiring diagram. Verify also that your H20 sees transponders on both the 99 and 103-deg satellites.

[Hamese]

I cannot, that I know of, see if I am picking up anything from 99. I do not recieve any programing from that sat and because of the software glitch all the transponders say n/a, yet I pass OK on the setup.

As for the 103, I am still recieving singals on the transponders, and the 103 is where my local HD's come from.

I went through my dish setup again and at the part where it test the signals and gives an Ok or Failed... I have some fail; however, I was having them fail before this process too, so I beleive that is because I aligned/tweaked the dish and not an installer.

I pass the 101, 119, 110, 99(11)

I fail and always have failed the 99(10), 103(14), 103(15). What is strange is that the 103(14) shows signals on all the transponders but the third one, and the strength averages about 78. I dont know why I fail that one. The 103(15) shoes all n/a so I dont know about it.

With all that said... my signals are all the same with the addition of the 110 signal from the seperate dish. The diagram is attached to the last post on pg5.

[Radio Enginerd]

This is what I'm hoping will work to combine my existing 110-deg SatC and 119-deg SatB dishes with a new AT9 dish ....

http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%201.jpg
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%202.jpg

WOW, very cool.

[doctor j]

Litzdog 911
Saw that thread was bumped and wondered if you had worked on the slimline with other older dishes to combine signals.

Last fall we left it as impractical with the AT-9 due to "different" voltage /signal from side arm lnb. As you recall I did have success with 2 separate Cal-Amp AT-9's (regular f connectors). I believe that the solution above will still "leave out" 1 set of the KA signals and that could be ok now with locals only using 1 of 8 available KA bands but will be a problem when more / all are used with D10 & D11.

It did come to mind however that with polarity lockers and a zinwell multiswitch that multiple dishes (AU-9) would work, but don't conceptualized how 3 can function. Still a problem combining 110 and 119 from separate dishes with the KA bands as well.

Any thoughts??

Doctor j

[P Smith]

Do we have the DC voltage measured on those two inputs at side of triple part of AT-9 and other type of AT-9 ?

[RobertE]

I haven't had the time or need to try but this *should* work.

Take the four (eight) lines from each dish and run them into power passing spitters.
Now down to four lines.
Four lines to power locker
*Recommend* a power locker here
Four lines from power locker to MS

If dish 1 doesn't see the 119, but dish 2 does, you should get a picture, etc.

Again, it should work. Anyone see why it wouldn't?

[veryoldschool]

I haven't had the time or need to try but this *should* work.
Take the four (eight) lines from each dish and run them into power passing splitters.
Again, it should work. Anyone see why it wouldn't?
After some testing by Carl6, there is "just one problem": the power passing splitters are directional...so they won't work as combiners.
The theory is good but the parts aren't available in the market.
As they say...bummer.

[litzdog911]

See additional multidish connection test information here, currently underway by Carl6 and others.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87143

Hopefully Carl will post his results and diagrams back here.

[carl6]

I just posted to the other thread, and I'll post my results here also.

I tried a couple of different ways to mix the signals for 119 from an AU9 (with the 119 LNB covered) and a separate round 18" dish aimed at 119.

The first attempt was simply using broad band high frequency dual port power passing splitters connecting the two lines from the round dish, and the applicable two lines from the AU9 to the splitters in the hope of using the splitters as combiners. That did not work. Not only did I not have 119, but I also lost 110 from the AU9. The problem is the splitters are just that, splitters. They are not also combiners. They only pass DC in one direction, so the LNB's were not getting DC voltage in this hookup.

So the next thing I did was used a combination of six splitters total wired up so that I was inserting the correct 13 and 18 V DC (with 22KHz) after the "backwards" splitters (being used as combiners). This did result in providing the proper voltage and tone to both dishes. The result: I regained the 110 transponders (the LNB was now properly powered), but I still did not have 119. It appears the 119 LNB in the AU9 is still sending signal out (a "no signal" signal) that is interfering with the valid signals from the round dish, and the result is the receiver is not seeing anything.

I am unable to find a way to combine a round dish with an AU9 to pick up either 110 or 119 without doing some kind of electronic surgery on the AU9 to disconnect the applicable LNB internally (circuit board level modifications needed to do this). I'm not willing to sacrifice my AU9 LNB assembly to experiment.

Carl

[litzdog911]

I just posted to the other thread, and I'll post my results here also.

I tried a couple of different ways to mix the signals for 119 from an AU9 (with the 119 LNB covered) and a separate round 18" dish aimed at 119.

The first attempt was simply using broad band high frequency dual port power passing splitters connecting the two lines from the round dish, and the applicable two lines from the AU9 to the splitters in the hope of using the splitters as combiners. That did not work. Not only did I not have 119, but I also lost 110 from the AU9. The problem is the splitters are just that, splitters. They are not also combiners. They only pass DC in one direction, so the LNB's were not getting DC voltage in this hookup.

So the next thing I did was used a combination of six splitters total wired up so that I was inserting the correct 13 and 18 V DC (with 22KHz) after the "backwards" splitters (being used as combiners). This did result in providing the proper voltage and tone to both dishes. The result: I regained the 110 transponders (the LNB was now properly powered), but I still did not have 119. It appears the 119 LNB in the AU9 is still sending signal out (a "no signal" signal) that is interfering with the valid signals from the round dish, and the result is the receiver is not seeing anything.

I am unable to find a way to combine a round dish with an AU9 to pick up either 110 or 119 without doing some kind of electronic surgery on the AU9 to disconnect the applicable LNB internally (circuit board level modifications needed to do this). I'm not willing to sacrifice my AU9 LNB assembly to experiment.

Carl


Thanks for trying, Carl.

So, to summarize, it looks the best (only?) way to site two dishes for all 5 satellites is to combine two AT9 5-LNB dishes .... one aimed for the 99/101/103 satellites, the other aimed for 110/119. Diagrams for this are provided earlier in this thread.

[natebg]

Anybody know where (simple online purchase preferred) I can buy 2 AT9 dishes from Andrews or Calamp that have the F type connector between the LNBs?

Thanks,

[litzdog911]

Anybody know where (simple online purchase preferred) I can buy 2 AT9 dishes from Andrews or Calamp that have the F type connector between the LNBs?

Thanks,

Check with Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com). Hopefully they can tell you which "flavor" of AT9 dish they have so you can get the F-type connectors.

[natebg]

Looks like the AT9s are discontinued and out of stock at solidsignal.

[Michael D'Angelo]

Anybody know where (simple online purchase preferred) I can buy 2 AT9 dishes from Andrews or Calamp that have the F type connector between the LNBs?

Thanks,

NEWEGG has the AT9 dish.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882250001

[bret4]

NEWEGG has the AT9 dish.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882250001

You can get them on ebay too.

I used my old round single LNB dish with the 110/119 LNB from my AT9 mounted to it. Just did this today so I am still testing it. So far it works fine. Got around 90% signal on most transponders. As high as 95% on some. Had to do a lot of adjusting of the dish to get it just right. Mounted the dish on an angle to match the same angle that the AT9 dishes LNB's are mounted at to get the 110 and 119 sats.

Did all the adjustments while watching the signal meters on my TV. Was able to see the TV with it in a window from the place the dish is mounted. I think it would be a good idea to mount the second round dish on a surface that is in the same plane as the AT9. Like mounted to the same side of a house. This should make easier to set the angle of the LNB's close to the same as on the AT9.

All it really took to mount the AT9 LNB's on the Round dish was to cut up the old round dish LNB to make a mount out of it. Drilled two holes in it the same spacing as the holes in the AT9 mounting hole spacing and bolt it together. I can take some pictures to post if this interest anyone.

[veryoldschool]

You can get them on ebay too.

I used my old round single LNB dish with the 110/119 LNB from my AT9 mounted to it. Just did this today so I am still testing it. So far it works fine. Got around 90% signal on most transponders. As high as 95% on some. Had to do a lot of adjusting of the dish to get it just right. Mounted the dish on an angle to match the same angle that the AT9 dishes LNB's are mounted at to get the 110 and 119 sats.

Did all the adjustments while watching the signal meters on my TV. Was able to see the TV with it in a window from the place the dish is mounted. I think it would be a good idea to mount the second round dish on a surface that is in the same plane as the AT9. Like mounted to the same side of a house. This should make easier to set the angle of the LNB's close to the same as on the AT9.

All it really took to mount the AT9 LNB's on the Round dish was to cut up the old round dish LNB to make a mount out of it. Drilled two holes in it the same spacing as the holes in the AT9 mounting hole spacing and bolt it together. I can take some pictures to post if this interest anyone.
What connectors do you have on the LNBs?
It sounds like the are F-type and not what mine are SMB.

[bret4]

What connectors do you have on the LNBs?
It sounds like the are F-type and not what mine are SMB.

Yes they are F-type connectors on my AT9 dish. I was able to use RG6 to make the connections. I guess you would have to make up your own cables if you can't buy them. Unless someone makes adaptors from F-type to SMB.

[veryoldschool]

Yes they are F-type connectors on my AT9 dish. I was able to use RG6 to make the connections. I guess you would have to make up your own cables if you can't buy them. Unless someone makes adaptors from F-type to SMB.
You have the "mystery AT9 dish".
Can you give any more info on who made it?
There are many makers of the obsolete dish.
I know that they have been used in Hawaii as they need two AT9 dishes to get the SAT spread from that far west.

[litzdog911]

You can get them on ebay too.

I used my old round single LNB dish with the 110/119 LNB from my AT9 mounted to it. Just did this today so I am still testing it. So far it works fine. Got around 90% signal on most transponders. As high as 95% on some. Had to do a lot of adjusting of the dish to get it just right. Mounted the dish on an angle to match the same angle that the AT9 dishes LNB's are mounted at to get the 110 and 119 sats.

Did all the adjustments while watching the signal meters on my TV. Was able to see the TV with it in a window from the place the dish is mounted. I think it would be a good idea to mount the second round dish on a surface that is in the same plane as the AT9. Like mounted to the same side of a house. This should make easier to set the angle of the LNB's close to the same as on the AT9.

All it really took to mount the AT9 LNB's on the Round dish was to cut up the old round dish LNB to make a mount out of it. Drilled two holes in it the same spacing as the holes in the AT9 mounting hole spacing and bolt it together. I can take some pictures to post if this interest anyone.

That's pretty cool. Please post photos and dimensions! I'm surprised you could get the geometry to work properly since you need two focal points for that dish to "see" both the 110 and 119-deg satellites.

[bret4]

I'll get more info on the dish and post photos and dimensions later today when I get home from work.

[bret4]

My AT9 dish says CAL AMP on it. That must be who made it.

Here are some pictures of my setup.

First and second pictures show the mounted dish with the AT9.

3rd picture shows gives you and idea of how I cut up the old LNB on the small dish to make the mount for the 110/119 LNB's from the AT9.

The 4th and 5th picture is the 110/119 LNB mounted on the small round dish.

Last picture show the AT9 without the 110/119.

I used two 25 foot RG6 cables with F-type connectors to entend the cables to the 110/119 LNB on the small dish.

You'll notice that the small dish is on the same angle as the large AT9 dish. I checked it with a angle gauge after I had the best signal and it was on about a 23' angle. That is the same as my AT9. Of course that would change for other locations. You would have to match the angle of your AT9 for your location.

[bret4]

Here is an update on my small dish testing.

It works but I think the small size of the dish is causing some pixelation on the 119 sat. It may not be collecting enough of the signals on all transponders to keep the signal up to full power at all times. I notice that some of the transponders on the 119 sat change signal strength a little. Some do not. I get as high as 96% on some transponders. That is a solid signal. Others go from 86% to 89% up and down.

I am going to try and adjust the dish to bring these signals in a little stronger and see what happens. At this point I would try this same setup with a 3 LNB dish. I'm sure that would work in my location. Of course getting another AT9 would be the best and easiest thing to do.

At least this shows that modding other dishes can work to some degree. I'm betting using a 3 LNB dish would work perfect with the AT9 110/119 LNB mounted to it. Now I'd like to find one of the oval 3 LNB dishes and give it a try.

[veryoldschool]

Here is an update on my small dish testing.

It works but I think the small size of the dish is causing some pixelation on the 119 sat. It may not be collecting enough of the signals on all transponders to keep the signal up to full power at all times. I notice that some of the transponders on the 119 sat change signal strength a little. Some do not. I get as high as 96% on some transponders. That is a solid signal. Others go from 86% to 89% up and down.

I am going to try and adjust the dish to bring these signals in a little stronger and see what happens. At this point I would try this same setup with a 3 LNB dish. I'm sure that would work in my location. Of course getting another AT9 would be the best and easiest thing to do.

At least this shows that modding other dishes can work to some degree. I'm betting using a 3 LNB dish would work perfect with the AT9 110/119 LNB mounted to it. Now I'd like to find one of the oval 3 LNB dishes and give it a try.
I think the "secret" is the AT-9 with F-type connectors for the 110/119 LNBs.
Do you know who made it?
Also I think you could use the older LNBs & dish [round with C SAT upgrade] as what you've got will let these connect to your AT9 "in-front of" its multi-switch.

[CCarncross]

If the lowest you are getting is 86-89, then its not a dish alignment problem although it really should not vary by more than a point or two unless you have obstructions still or weather is moving in.. It takes signals dropping into the 50s or below to actually start causing pixellation and eventual loss of signal.

[bret4]

I think the "secret" is the AT-9 with F-type connectors for the 110/119 LNBs.
Do you know who made it?
Also I think you could use the older LNBs & dish [round with C SAT upgrade] as what you've got will let these connect to your AT9 "in-front of" its multi-switch.

I think your right about the AT9.

The dish says CAL AMP on it. Have been looking on ebay for one but don't see any that have LNB's that look like my dish. I would have to mount my 110/119 LNB's on it. Shouldn't be much of a problem.

[bret4]

If the lowest you are getting is 86-89, then its not a dish alignment problem although it really should not vary by more than a point or two unless you have obstructions still or weather is moving in.. It takes signals dropping into the 50s or below to actually start causing pixellation and eventual loss of signal.

Your right that those signals should be good enough. I think something else is going on. Thinking that some of the signal is hitting the edge of the dish and not all of it is making it into the LNB for 119. When I try to re-adjust the dish to favor the 119 sat I'll know more. If I still can't get a good picture without pixelation then I'll have to agree with you on maybe moving the dish a little more to get a clear shot at the sat.

[veryoldschool]

I think you could use the phase II + components to mix with your AT9
Here's a link: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp

[bret4]

I think you could use the phase II + components to mix with your AT9
Here's a link: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp

That's an interesting design. They don't seem to have any for sale. The Phase III I could mount my AT9 parts on it. They have those for sale.

For now I did get a chance to adjust my dish again. So far no more pixelation on the 119 sat channels. I had to drop the signal on the 110 a bit lower to get it to work. All channels on the 110 sat seem to be working fine for now. I would think they would be the first ones to drop out with a heavy rain storm.

With this last adjustment it seems that the small round dish is just a little small to collect enough signal on the two sats at the same time. One or the other has to suffer a bit for this to work. What I may try is re-drill 4 holes in my Phase I dish so I can mount it 90' from the way it is mounted now. The Phase I dish is about the same size as the Phase III dish, only it is mounted with the narrow side right to left and the wide side up and down. Turning it 90' would give me about the same thing as the Phase III dish. Should be easy enough to drill 4 new holes to try it out.

It's fun to try things like this out.

[jal1975]

It's fun to try things like this out.


And makes for interesting reading here!:grin:

[bret4]

I tried to rotate the small dish as I said I would in my last post. It didn't seem to work any better. I get some pixelation on Discovery HD. I'm going to go and buy an AT9. Don't know if it will be a slimline or one like I have now. EDIT: ordered an AT9 like my AT9 but with the SMB connectors on the LNB's. I'll use my AT9's 110/119 LNBs with the F-type connectors on the new dish.

I also tuned up my AT9. It turns out that the installer didn't tighten up all the screws. I have a little better signal on the 99,101 and 103 sats now.

[bret4]

Just an update on my small dish coversion to get the 110 and 119 sats. It is working great right now. I ordered another dish as I posted before and don't want to put it up because the little dish is working fine right now.

Now the big problem is pixelation and audio drops on a lot of my SD channels. Sometimes it is so bad I have to just turn it off and wait until latter to watch TV. A lot of people are reporting this problem on the group. Seems like it could have something to do with the HR20 or the Sat signal.

Funny thing is that this is the same problem I used to have on the small dish on the HD channels. Now that that is gone it is on the big dish on the SD programs. The HD channels on the Big dish seem fine.

I also lost all my OTA channels. That could be related or it could be the leaves lowered the signal enough that the HR20 can't get them. The TV gets them on it's tunner. Not perfect but they come in.

I also had lightning hit a oak tree in my yard. Had the Audio drops and pixelation before that on the SD sat channels. Lost the OTA after the lightning. Maybe my HR20 is going bad. The antenna is in the attic. The sat antennas are closer to the tree.

[jganson]

Interesting and informative thread. Maybe some of you can weigh in on my situation:

My view of the satellites is over a large stand of tall cedar trees. I self-installed the 3-lnb dish a few years ago and for awhile received 101, 110 and 119. 119 became weak and eventually dropped off altogether, and I have not been able to get it back, I'm sure due to trees. I have a bigger "window" above/between some trees for 101 and 110, so they have been solid.

A few months ago I had DTV come out to install the 5-lnb dish. They guy took a quick look around and said it was a no-go. I dropped it for a few months but came back recently and saw this thread. The idea of using two AT9s to pick up all of the birds is intriguing, though I'm not sure I'll find a location to pick up both 110 and 119. The other issue is that I can't seem to find any Cal Amp AT9s online. I've found others, but they appear to have the non-standard connectors between the 110/119 LNBs and the 99/101/103 LNBs. Has anyone made one of these non-Cal Amp units work, perhaps by splicing regular RG-6 cable into the cables supplied with the AT9?

My other thought is that I can more readily get a Slimline dish, and for less money. I'm relatively confident that from my existing dish position I should be able to pick up 101, 103 and 110 (and probably 99) - but won't be able to pick up 119. Does that matter much? I know 119 currently carries HDNet, ESPN2 and DiscoveryHD, but I've limped along without those so far. I'm more concerned about the "100" new national HD channels Directv is promising will come online by the end of this year. My understanding is that those will be on 103. If so, then not getting 119 should not be that big of a deal, should it? (I'm 35 miles outside of Seattle but get the local HD channels OTA just fine, so I don't care too much about LIL HD.)

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

[bjs188]

Has anyone made one of these non-Cal Amp units work, perhaps by splicing regular RG-6 cable into the cables supplied with the AT9?

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

I am using two WNC AT9 dishes and have connected them with F-Jack to SMB adapters that I found at www.myradiostore.com.

At this time, I don't receive any programming from the KA slots, I do get everything from 119 and 110 dish and everything from the 101 dish without any problems. It actually has helped to get a better signal on the 119/110 dish because I can peak it without worrying about 101/103/99. I do get a good signal off of two transponders on 99 and a low reading off of one transponder at 103. About the same readings that someone else in my area gets using a professionally installed 5 lnb dish.

My hope is that they duplicate all the HD from 110 and 119 on the new sat so I can get rid of the second dish. My SD locals do come from 119 but since I get everything in HD OTA I would not mind losing them.

I got two opened-box WNC AT9 dishes on eBay for about $135 with shipping.

[doctor j]

See this thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=94585&page=2


Any AT-9 dish combined with 2 round dishes and a sat c kit combined as per Litzdog911 's diagram will work.

Doctor j

[ampman337]

I think I'm suffering from info overload from reading all of this. I'm not sure if I read it along the way but, Is it possible to do this with 2 slimline dishes?
I have D* coming out Friday For an install. I currently have an 18" dish pointing at 101 since 1997 and have not tried to upgrade before because of trees.
But I think this solution may work for me. (If the installer says it can't be done) I think I could get 99,101,103 with one dish and 110 and 119 with the other. The slimlines are easier to comeby thats why I ask.

[doctor j]

Short answer is NO.

2 solutions are ;

1) 2 AT-9 dishes preferrably Cal-Amp with side arm wires connected with regular F connectors. Adapters for winstrom connectors have been used but are more difficult to find. (I believe 3 AT-9 dishes could be used with single side arm connectors from 110 & 119.)

2) AT-9 dish w/o side arm LNB's and 2 single round dishes aimed at 110 & 119 connected with sat C kit and splitters/combiners as in litzdog911's diagram in above referenced thread.

None of these will likely be attempted by an installer. These are likely DIY projects only.

Doctor j

[bret4]

That's right on the DIY project. I just had the LNB go bad on my AT9 and the D* installers that I had out only had Slimline dish to replace it with. They had to mount it on a pole in my back yard to get it to work.

The good news is that they told me that because I had no other place to mount a dish to get a signal that they would do the pole mount for free.

If you do not care about the programing on the 119 sat I would see if you can just use a slimline dish. Like you said. So many more channels are going to be on the new sats in the 103 and 99 slots soon that it may not matter much. Some people on other parts of this forum have said that they may move some of the programing from the 110 and 119 to the new sat's anyway. If that turns out to be true then 110 and 119 may not matter much if you don't get or miss any local channels from them.

[jmh139]

This is what I planned to do, but got an answer I did not expect when I posted about it yesterday:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1078388

According to litzdog911, Directv will provide the guide data for the new satellite on the 119 sat, which would cause possible loss of guide data for anyone not able to see it. With all the trees I have, I doubt I could even put another dish up and see it. My main dish (3 LNB) sees 101 and 110 now. The 119 sat is low here on the east coast.


My other thought is that I can more readily get a Slimline dish, and for less money. I'm relatively confident that from my existing dish position I should be able to pick up 101, 103 and 110 (and probably 99) - but won't be able to pick up 119. Does that matter much? I know 119 currently carries HDNet, ESPN2 and DiscoveryHD, but I've limped along without those so far. I'm more concerned about the "100" new national HD channels Directv is promising will come online by the end of this year. My understanding is that those will be on 103. If so, then not getting 119 should not be that big of a deal, should it? (I'm 35 miles outside of Seattle but get the local HD channels OTA just fine, so I don't care too much about LIL HD.)

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

[litzdog911]

Well, actually FIVE schemes! ...

So far we have five verified connection schemes to combine multiple dishes at different locations to receive signals from all DirecTV satellites through trees and other obstructions ....

1. Use two AT9 dishes, one sited to receive 99/101/103-deg W and the other sited to receive 110/119-deg W and described in more detail earlier in this thread:
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%204.jpg


2. Use one AT9 dish without the "sidecar" LNB sited to receive 99/101/103-deg W and two 18" round dishes to receive 110 and 119-deg W, with the 110-deg W dish using the special "Sat C Kit" LNB and combiner:
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/AT9%20Dish%20Combo%205.jpg

3. Use one AT9 dish without the "sidecar" LNB sited to receive 99/101/103-deg W and one Phase III multisatellite dish to receive 110 and 119-deg W:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/jbraden_photo/2dish_connect-2.jpg

4. Modify a SlimLine LNB assembly to disconnect the 110 & 119-deg LNBs, then combine with two round dishes or a Phase III dish as described in 2 and 3 above. See Carl's post with modification instructions and photos here ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1322936&postcount=275

5. Use the 99/101/103 dish designed for Alaska/Hawaii combined with dishes for 110 & 119 as described in doctorj's post here ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1350332&postcount=327

[jmh139]

Two dishes are just not an option for me with the treeline I have, I am hitting 101 and 110 through holes in the trees with one dish . I play to use the sun today (from your link) to find where the 119 Sat is at, but I think it is just way to low to ever hit.

I cannot understand why they would put guide data on the 119 sat instead of the 101 sat. There has to be a lot of people on the east coast that cannot hit 119 since it is so low.

[litzdog911]

....

I cannot understand why they would put guide data on the 119 sat instead of the 101 sat. There has to be a lot of people on the east coast that cannot hit 119 since it is so low.

I think it has to do with the fact that the 103, 110 and 119-deg satellites are "switched" together by the Receiver/multiswitch's 22kHz switching tone. Likewise the 99 & 101-deg satellites are together.

[jmh139]

I posted this in another thread, but thought I would post it here also:

On the other hand, by reading your reply and another thread about the guide info, it seems I could just set up a repeat recording at night to record a big block (4 - 8 hours enough?) of sd content on the 101 sat and that should keep my guide fresh?

I will miss the couple of channels on 119, but with my hd locals on 103 and all the new content, I think I will be alright :-)

Thanks for your help.

[litzdog911]

I posted this in another thread, but thought I would post it here also:

On the other hand, by reading your reply and another thread about the guide info, it seems I could just set up a repeat recording at night to record a big block (4 - 8 hours enough?) of sd content on the 101 sat and that should keep my guide fresh?

I will miss the couple of channels on 119, but with my hd locals on 103 and all the new content, I think I will be alright :-)

Thanks for your help.

Yes, that should work. Folks with regular HD Receivers (H20 or H21) can set an Autotune for early every morning to a channel not beamed from 103-deg W to accomplish the same thing.

[georgegmd]

Question - In the setup verified by Dr. J, ( 3 seperate dishes) is the sidecar LNB plugged in to the 99/101/103 LNB or left unplugged?

Thanks is advance for the great work.

[veryoldschool]

Question - In the setup verified by Dr. J, ( 3 seperate dishes) is the sidecar LNB plugged in to the 99/101/103 LNB or left unplugged?

Thanks is advance for the great work.

Left unplugged for best performance

[jbraden]

So far we have two verified connection schemes to combine multiple dishes at different locations to receive signals from all DirecTV satellites through trees and other obstructions ....

2. Use one AT9 dish without the "sidecar" LNB dish sited to receive 99/101/103-deg W and two 18" round dishes to receive 110 and 119-deg W, with the 110-deg W dish using the special "Sat C Kit" LNB and combiner:


Thank you litzdog! I do have a couple questions about the second solution here... I currently receive the 110 & 119 satellite through a 3 LNB dish and the 101 through a separate old round dish. From the configuration in #2, it looks like I may be able to use my existing 3 LNB dish in place of the two round dishes you show for 110 & 119, and just get an AT9 to replace the round dish aimed at 101. Will that work? Second, I checked out the specs on the Channel Vision HS-2, and it says it is a 1GHz splitter/combiner. That doesn't sound right for these frequencies. Sonora says splitters must be rated to 2.3GHz, and that makes sense since the Ka-Hi band goes to 2150MHz (2.15GHz). The Holland Electronics HRS-2P Wideband Splitter is rated for frequencies from 15MHz to 2150MHz and sounds like a better choice. As doctor j notes in a follow-up to this post, make sure it's -2P (power passing in both directions), and not -2D (power passing only from out to in). These are available from techtoolsupply.com for $2.49 each. Was the Channel Vision HS-2 really able to pass the Ka-Hi band signals successfully? Finally, it looks like everyone who used to sell AT9's has discontinued them and switched to AU9's (slimline). Has anybody been able to find a reliable source for the old style dishes, or is eBay now the only option?

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/jbraden_photo/2dish_connect-2.jpg

[Bill Broderick]

I may have access to a used AT9 dish. Can someone please tell me if and where the dishes are labeled with the manufacturer. I want the current owner to check if the dish is a Cal-amp, Andrews or WNC.

[jbraden]

I may have access to a used AT9 dish. Can someone please tell me if and where the dishes are labeled with the manufacturer. I want the current owner to check if the dish is a Cal-amp, Andrews or WNC.
I know that both the Cal-amp and Andrews dishes have the full size coax F connectors on the sidecar and main LNB assemblies. As I understand it the WNC has mini connectors like the Sirius satellite connections. Both the Cal-amp and Andrews dishes would work for the scheme that litzdog911 describes in this thread.

[Bill Broderick]

I know about that part. However, I don't think that the person that I would be getting this from would have any idea what I'm talking about if I asked him to detemine what type of connectors are on the dish (and I can't go check it out myself).

So, I'm looking for an easy way for him to determine what type of dish he has.

[bret4]

I may have access to a used AT9 dish. Can someone please tell me if and where the dishes are labeled with the manufacturer. I want the current owner to check if the dish is a Cal-amp, Andrews or WNC.

Cal-amp should be stamped on the dish. It should also be on the LNB's.

The WNC would have WNC on the LNB's. Not sure if it is stamped into the dish. Most likely is.

[Bill Broderick]

It turns out that it's a WNC. Not my first choice. But beggers can't be choosers. I can just order the appropriate adapters from myradiostore.

It appears that I can everything but 119 from the primary location. I already have a second dish receiving 119. I'm hoping that I can go with a two dish methodology, utilizing 99, 101, 103 & 110 from the AT9 and 119 from the round dish. But I don't know what the proper methodology would be for this. Do I just convert one of the cables coming out of the 110/119 LNB assembly into an RG-6 cable (utilizing the F-Jack to SMB-Plug adapter) and then do everything else as if I were using 3 dishes as shown in Dr J's diagram above?

Or do I really need to utilize 3 dishes if I don't have a single location where I can receive both 110 & 119?

[litzdog911]

It turns out that it's a WNC. Not my first choice. But beggers can't be choosers. I can just order the appropriate adapters from myradiostore.

It appears that I can everything but 119 from the primary location. I already have a second dish receiving 119. I'm hoping that I can go with a two dish methodology, utilizing 99, 101, 103 & 110 from the AT9 and 119 from the round dish. But I don't know what the proper methodology would be for this. Do I just convert one of the cables coming out of the 110/119 LNB assembly into an RG-6 cable (utilizing the F-Jack to SMB-Plug adapter) and then do everything else as if I were using 3 dishes as shown in Dr J's diagram above?

Or do I really need to utilize 3 dishes if I don't have a single location where I can receive both 110 & 119?

Review the information in this thread in my post here on 9/1/07. These are the only two configurations known to work. You cannot combine just a 119-deg dish with an existing AT9 due to the way that the 110+119-deg signals are combined. You need either two AT9's, or one AT9 plus two single LNB dishes for 110+119.

[Ext 721]

There appear to be two problems doing that.

1. Your current multiswitch may not pass the 250-750 and/or 1650-2150 outputs of the Ka LNBs. That could be easily rectified with a WB68 but:

2. As Litzdog911 found out, the 103 LNB also uses the 22 kHz signal. When the 22 kHz signal is missing 99 is output in addition to 101 (remember these are different frequencies so they won't interfere). Likewise, 103 is ouput in addition to 110/119 when the tone is present).

There may be a way to make it work with three dishes but it would require modifying the 110/119 interconnection circuitry to have separate inputs, which is probably achievable, but not an easy task. It's unfortunate that the 13/18 volt polarization switching scheme wasn't carried through to the new 110/119 LNBs. Hopefully one of the dish manufacturers will come up with a practical solution allowing three separate dishes.

Of course there is also the "chainsaw" solution :D

Here's a potential "doh" moment...

Is the H-20 "smart" enough to accept a combined 110/119 even on flexport 1, and a 119 odd on flexport 2?

I think it might be, since a d-11 can use either a 110/119 sat or a 72 sat on the 22khz ports of a 4x8 and "know" the difference, or use a 72.5/95 and "know" the difference via autodetect.

Here's the kicker.....if it isn't programmed to know the difference....

it CAN be, via software update.

[jbraden]

Review the information in this thread in my post here on 9/1/07. These are the only two configurations known to work. You cannot combine just a 119-deg dish with an existing AT9 due to the way that the 110+119-deg signals are combined. You need either two AT9's, or one AT9 plus two single LNB dishes for 110+119.

I'd really like an opinion on the 2 dish solution I proposed earlier. Is there a reason it shouldn't work? Am I going to have to build it to find out? Thanks!

[doctor j]

I'd really like an opinion on the 2 dish solution I proposed earlier. Is there a reason it shouldn't work? Am I going to have to build it to find out? Thanks!


I did not try a 3 LNB but the concern is that a carrier frequency from the built in multiswitch nulls the combination signals and poor reception is the result. This is certainly true in the AT-9 and AU-9 dish multiswitches.
The only way to know for certain is to build it and SEE.

The holland hi-freq splitter may work but my experience with at least 2 other brands of quality high freq splitters is than they would NOT work as combiners. ie; signal would not pass 2 side to 1 ,only 1 in to 2 out.

Good Luck and please report your results.

Doctod j

[Bill Broderick]

You need either two AT9's, or one AT9 plus two single LNB dishes for 110+119.


OK, thanks. Currently, I have one 3 LNB (which is really the Phase 2, 2 LNB dish, with a Sat C kit installed, so there is no built-in multi-switch) dish receiving Sats A & C (101 & 110) and a round dish receiving Sat B (119). A Sat C combiner is located in my basement at the existing multi-switch.

Based on the diagram, it appears that I should be able to continue to use these two dishes to continue to receive Sats B & C and install an AT9 for 99, 101 & 103, then utilize the Combiners and Power Inserter from the diagram, before hitting the multi-switch.

Does that make sense? Is there any issue using the old dish, that had the Sat C kit installed for Sat C?

[litzdog911]

OK, thanks. Currently, I have one 3 LNB (which is really the Phase 2, 2 LNB dish, with a Sat C kit installed, so there is no built-in multi-switch) dish receiving Sats A & C (101 & 110) and a round dish receiving Sat B (119). A Sat C combiner is located in my basement at the existing multi-switch.

Based on the diagram, it appears that I should be able to continue to use these two dishes to continue to receive Sats B & C and install an AT9 for 99, 101 & 103, then utilize the Combiners and Power Inserter from the diagram, before hitting the multi-switch.

Does that make sense? Is there any issue using the old dish, that had the Sat C kit installed for Sat C?

This should work. The 2-LNB "Phase II" dish will receive SatC (110-deg W) with your round dish receiving SatB (119-deg W) using the SatC Combiner.

[litzdog911]

Here's a potential "doh" moment...

Is the H-20 "smart" enough to accept a combined 110/119 even on flexport 1, and a 119 odd on flexport 2?

I think it might be, since a d-11 can use either a 110/119 sat or a 72 sat on the 22khz ports of a 4x8 and "know" the difference, or use a 72.5/95 and "know" the difference via autodetect.

Here's the kicker.....if it isn't programmed to know the difference....

it CAN be, via software update.

Read earlier in this thread where I tried using the Flexport inputs on my Zinwell WB68. It didn't work.

[dclarke]

Finally found the right forum thread here I hope. Litzdog I was reffered to you about the 2 dish setup I sent you my system info. I did leave out the fact that my 110/119 dish is the old oval/elipitcal with the 101 lnb left off, and my new 5lnb is the new slimline one that was "professionally" installed thru directv. I get nothing on the 103 and only 2 feeds come from the 5lnb to the 6x8. All current programming is viewable but I bet that wont be the case without the 103 in the new rollout. I beleive what Im reading that I need to scrap both current dishes and go with 2 at9's (the wife will love that beast living on the roof) If that is the only way to go I will to it. It cant be as bad as digging a trench 60 feet thru the trees to get 110/119. please give me your expert advice as well as where I can buy this older at9 dish? thanks D Clarke

[Bill Broderick]

There's someone in Canada, who claims to have 4 of them, selling them in an eBay store for $156.74 (actually, he claims to have 5, but after losing an auction for a used dish, I ordered one from him a little while ago. I'm just waiting to hear from them on the shipping cost).

If you're looking to get two of them, he's already answered a question of someone else who wanted two of them, that the shipping to the NY area would be $70. So, two of them would cost you about $384.

Just do a search in eBay on DirecTV AT9.

[jbraden]

There's someone in Canada, who claims to have 4 of them, selling them in an eBay store for $156.74 (actually, he claims to have 5, but after losing an auction for a used dish, I ordered one from him a little while ago. I'm just waiting to hear from them on the shipping cost).

If you're looking to get two of them, he's already answered a question of someone else who wanted two of them, that the shipping to the NY area would be $70. So, two of them would cost you about $384.

Just do a search in eBay on DirecTV AT9.
There's also another person on eBay who appears to have the AT9 dish... the picture, dimensions, and weight match up, but he doesn't specifically say AT9. He is asking a BuyItNow price of $99.99 + $67.00 shipping. Seller is belthazor_1.

[Bill Broderick]

Rats. I wish that I had seen that sooner. I could have saved $30 (the shipping of one dish from the other seller, to Long Island was $40.11).

Since he doesn't specifically mention the AT9, before purchasing from belthazor_1, I would recommend contacting him and asking if the dish is in fact the AT9. I've seen some people who have shown a photo of the AT9, but are really selling the Slimline.

[litzdog911]

Finally found the right forum thread here I hope. Litzdog I was reffered to you about the 2 dish setup I sent you my system info. I did leave out the fact that my 110/119 dish is the old oval/elipitcal with the 101 lnb left off, and my new 5lnb is the new slimline one that was "professionally" installed thru directv. I get nothing on the 103 and only 2 feeds come from the 5lnb to the 6x8. All current programming is viewable but I bet that wont be the case without the 103 in the new rollout. I beleive what Im reading that I need to scrap both current dishes and go with 2 at9's (the wife will love that beast living on the roof) If that is the only way to go I will to it. It cant be as bad as digging a trench 60 feet thru the trees to get 110/119. please give me your expert advice as well as where I can buy this older at9 dish? thanks D Clarke

That's right .... you won't see 103 with this connection scheme. See my posts very early in this thread. I had originally tried combining one 5-LNB dish to receive 99/101/103 with two other dishes aimed for 110 and 119. I think the problem with this scheme is that the switching signal, which is required for 103, 110 and 119, cannot reach the 5-LNB dish with this wiring scheme.

But you can solve that by using the "proven" schemes near the end of this thread. You can combine your 110/119 with a 99/101/103 dish, but you need the power combiners to properly combine ALL FOUR cables from the 5-LNB dish. If you can't find the post I'm refering to, let me know.

[dclarke]

thanks Litz I did mention that my 5lnb is the slimline so Im still confused it has 4 ports and none are labeled as to what they correspond with the 6x8, with this in mind will it still work?

[John_NY]

Using a standard "powered" 4x8 multiswitch would you be able to Bump the AT9's voltage on the 110/119 side ports up and control the standard LNB's in a dirrerent location ?


AT9 > 4 lines to WB6x8

AT9 side ports >to Powered 4x8> then 13/18.22k out to other standard LNB dish in a different location



Would the 4x8 multiswitch act like a power inverter and bump up the voltage? or are they just powered to handle their own switching
AND would the side outputs from the AT9 even be enough to tell the 4x8 to route up the right line

[Bill Broderick]

Well, the dish that I ordered off of ebay came and, wouldn't you know it, the guy sent me the Slimline dish, instead of the AT9, which was pictured and specifically mentioned by model number.

I guess it's time to try again.

[litzdog911]

Well, the dish that I ordered off of ebay came and, wouldn't you know it, the guy sent me the Slimline dish, instead of the AT9, which was pictured and specifically mentioned by model number.

I guess it's time to try again.

Bummer. SlimLine won't work.

[hiker]

I've read through the thread and see the two working methods in post 164 (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164).

1. In the second method by doctorj, would it be possible to eliminate the Sonona power inserter and WB68 and use instead a WB616?

2. I have a Phase II+ dish so I can isolate the LNBs. Would it be possible to use one AT9 without sidecar LNBs, and run one line from Phase II+ 119 LNB and one line from Phase II+ 110 LNB to the inputs normally used for sidecar LNBs in the AT9 main LNB MS? I don't think the SatC combiner would be needed and 1 output from the 119 LNB would be left unconnected.

[veryoldschool]

I've read through the thread and see the two working methods in post 164 (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164).

1. In the second method by doctorj, would it be possible to eliminate the Sonona power inserter and WB68 and use instead a WB616?

2. I have a Phase II+ dish so I can isolate the LNBs. Would it be possible to use one AT9 without sidecar LNBs, and run one line from Phase II+ 119 LNB and one line from Phase II+ 110 LNB to the inputs normally used for sidecar LNBs in the AT9 main LNB MS? I don't think the SatC combiner would be needed and 1 output from the 119 LNB would be left unconnected.
Not to steal litzdog911's "thunder":
Yes, you can use the WB616 instead of the Sonora locker & WB68.
The side car LNBs aren't the same as your Phase II+ [so no].

[hiker]

Ah, thanks. I'm curious, what's different about the 110 and 119 LNBs, sidecar vs Phase II+?

Also, solid signal does not have the channel vision hs-2 combiners. Where is a good place to buy those?

[veryoldschool]

Ah, thanks. I'm curious, what's different about the 110 and 119 LNBs, sidecar vs Phase II+?
The 110 is the "odd" LNB so it will convert the output to work with the 101/119 LNB.
The sidecar's 110 & 119 LNBs have different voltages since they plug into the main sidecar LNB assembly, where all of the older LNBs are driven with the receiver's 13 or 18 volts.

[Bill Broderick]

Also, solid signal does not have the channel vision hs-2 combiners. Where is a good place to buy those?

I got mine from Smarthome (http://www.smarthome.com/7810c2.html) for about $5 apiece.

[litzdog911]

Ah, thanks. I'm curious, what's different about the 110 and 119 LNBs, sidecar vs Phase II+?

....

I never could get a detailed schematic or technical explanation. But I know that the old LNBs are not electrically compatible with the AT9 LNB/multiswitch assembly. The power inserter plus combiner approach solves that problem.

[litzdog911]

Just had a local Ironwood installer help me re-vamp my "dish farm" from the dual AT9 approach to using 3 dishes as shown in the second diagram here ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164

A tree was gradually blocking my second AT9's view of 119-deg W, so we mounted a new dish to receive 119-deg and used the combiners with the Sonora locker to make it all work. Works great! Lost a bit of signal level on 110-deg (from mid-90's to mid-80's), but everything else is fine.

[Bill Broderick]

It's comforting to see that additional people are having success with the methodology that I'm planning on using (if I can ever get the installer to my house to install it). It's not that I don't trust doctorj, it's just nice to see a few "me too's".

While waiting for the installer to show up yesterday, I swapped out my old 4x8 multi-switch with the Combiners, power inserter and WB68, connected to my phase 2 dish (for Sats A & C) and a round dish (for Sat B). So I anticipate that my signals on Sats B & C should remain consistent with the current signal strength.

[jbraden]

I finally completed the upgrade described in my post #171 of this thread, and we now have another confirmed good solution. My original setup used an 18" round dish for the 101 satellite and a Phase III 3-lnb oval dish for 110 and 119. These were combined by running the 2 wires from the 101 to the no-tone inputs and 2 wires from the 3-lnb dish to the 22 kHz tone inputs of a 4x8 multiswitch. I replaced the round dish with a WNC AT9 dish with the side arm containing the 110 & 119 LNBs removed. Two of the 4 AT9 outputs go to the leftmost inputs of a Sonora HRPID 1422 polarity locker and power inserter, and the other two each go to one of the Holland HFS-2P splitters used as combiners. The two wires from my old 3-lnb dish go to the other side of the combiners, and the combined satellite signals (coming from the jacks marked IN on the splitters) go to the remaining satellite inputs on the Sonora. The four outputs of the Sonora go to the four inputs of a Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, as shown in the previous drawing, and the outputs of the multiswitch connect to the satellite receivers.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff280/jbraden_photo/2dish_wiring.jpg

Signal strengths on the 103b transponders range from 93-97, and on the 110 and 119 are pretty much unchanged from my previous levels, so I don't think the combiners and power inserter are causing much, if any, degradation of signal strength. I seem to be getting all of the new HD channels successfully, as well as the old HD channels on 110 and 119. Thank you to doctor j and litzdog911 for blazing the trail.

I'm left with a brand new CalAmp AT9 dish which I bought in case I had to resort to "Plan B", but fortunately that wasn't necessary.

[carl6]

Congratulations, and thank you for another solution. Excellent work.

Carl

[Bill Broderick]

Good job jbraden. Congratulations.

[litzdog911]

Thanks jbraden!

[jefbal99]

I have a Phase 3 dish that is not being used and is free for anybody that is in a situation needing multiple dish setup.

A family friend upgraded to the AU9 and the installers left his Phase 3 in the garage, he gave it to my sister who right after they replaced their original dish with the phase 3, upgraded to the AU9 as well.

Just cover the shipping and the dish is yours.

I love reading about these interesting setups and ways people get around limitations of their areas to get a service they want.

Very impressed by everyone in this thread.

[hiker]

I have a Phase 3 dish that is not being used and is free for anybody that is in a situation needing multiple dish setup.
...I don't believe a Phase III dish will work since it has a combo LNB/multiswitch The Phase II dish has separate LNBs and separate MS mounted on the back of the dish. Thanks for the offer.

[veryoldschool]

I don't believe a Phase III dish will work since it has a combo LNB/multiswitch The Phase II dish has separate LNBs and separate MS mounted on the back of the dish. Thanks for the offer.
Actually I believe the phase III will work. The multi-switch in it isn't an issue.
If the LOS is very narrow, then two separate dishes may be needed, located so they both can get LOS.

[jefbal99]

Maybe I stated that badly as I'm fairly new to D*, the dish has 3 lnbs on it.

But from the reading and research I've done, I'm pretty sure its a phase 3

[hiker]

Maybe I stated that badly as I'm fairly new to D*, the dish has 3 lnbs on it.

But from the reading and research I've done, I'm pretty sure its a phase 3Take a look at the pictures here (http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp) and you should be able to tell.

VOS: Won't the 101 signal from the Phase III LNB cause a conflict when couple with the 101 signal from the AT9 LNB? Two signals from the same sat - not good.

[jefbal99]

Take a look at the pictures here (http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp) and you should be able to tell.

VOS: Won't the 101 signal from the Phase III LNB cause a conflict when couple with the 101 siganl from the AT9 LNB? Two signals from the same sat - not good.

It's phase III

[veryoldschool]

VOS: Won't the 101 signal from the Phase III LNB cause a conflict when couple with the 101 signal from the AT9 LNB? Two signals from the same sat - not good.
101 is the "no tone" while 110 & 119 are the "tone", so why would the Phase III even connect to the 101 LNB?

[hiker]

101 is the "no tone" while 110 & 119 are the "tone", so why would the Phase III even connect to the 101 LNB?Maybe so. But I learned long ago, one test is worth a thousand opinions. ;) Care to give it a try?

[jbraden]

101 is the "no tone" while 110 & 119 are the "tone", so why would the Phase III even connect to the 101 LNB?
The polarity locker ensures the LNB for the 101 satellite is never selected on the Phase III dish. The two wires from that dish always receive the 22kHz tone. and the signals from the 110 and 119 satellites are combined with the signals from the 103 satellite through the two wideband splitters used as combiners.

[jbraden]

Maybe so. But I learned long ago, one test is worth a thousand opinions. ;) Care to give it a try?
The results of "giving it a try" were reported in my post #201 with a photo of the actual installation. The diagram showing the required connections was in my post #171.

[veryoldschool]

Maybe so. But I learned long ago, one test is worth a thousand opinions. ;) Care to give it a try?
I learned long ago to know how something works before making changes.
1) the problem you elude to is with the 5 LNB and having the 110 & 119 still powered. The control signals used for them also control the 103 LNB. Since this are needed, if you don't have an AT-9, where you can disconnect the 110 & 119 LNBs, you will have problems using the AU9.
2) So if you are using the AT-9 99/101/103 LNB, you can combine the phase III to the 13 volt 22 kHz & the 18 volt 22 kHz lines and have: only one LNB active for: 99, 101, 103, 110, 119, which is what is required.

Anybody see a flaw in this logic? Please post it. :)

[hiker]

The results of "giving it a try" were reported in my post #201 with a photo of the actual installation. The diagram showing the required connections was in my post #171.Ah, thanks. Somehow I missed #171. So it looks like we currently have 3 working methods. Now if someone could figure a way to use a AU9 instead of AT9. I see someone posted dissected photos of the AU9 LNB.

[Bill Broderick]

Ah, thanks. Somehow I missed #171.

When post 171 was written, it was a proposed methodology. After trying it and determining that it worked, jbraden wrote post 201 and updated the diagram in post 171 to show that the, previously proposed methodology, is now confirmed to work.

[litzdog911]

Just added jbraden's THIRD approach to the post with the other two approaches here ...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164

This way we can provide one link to folks looking for the confirmed methods. Thanks everybody!

[jbraden]

As a final follow-up to my 2-dish solution, I emailed DirecTV and explained that because of my line-of-sight problems, I needed to do a custom install in order to get access to all 5 satellites, and itemized my expenses. I requested programming credits to help compensate me for the materials and labor involved, since DirecTV did not have to pay for a dish and install directly. DirecTV called me back and offered credits of $19.99/mo. for 12 months, or $239.88 over the next year. Although this doesn't cover all of my costs, I thought it was a very fair offer, and I certainly am going to enjoy the new HD channels over the years ahead.

[Bill Broderick]

To take jbraden's comments one step further, I would suggest making this phone call before spending money to get the multi-dish solution implemented. At that point you have more leverage with DirecTV.

My original upgrade offer from D* was a free upgrade of my HD DVR, HD receiver and installation of a Slimline. They would then upgrade my HD reciever to an HD DVR for $199. After it turned out that this wouldn't work and the installer cancelled the installation without even going on the roof (and then the supervisor, who was supposed to come out to do a site inspection, never showed up), I was in the process aquiring an AT9, I called D* because I was concerned about the fact that I would be getting the AT9 installed without a current generation HD receiver available for alignment purposes and didn't want to get hit with a new 2 year commitment in case the multi-dish solution didn't work for me.

I spoke with a Customer Retention person, who understood my dilemna. She told me that they couldn't waive the two year commitment, but that she could send me an HD receiver for free, which I shouldn't activate until after we use it to align the dish and are happy with the results (which, unless I get rained out for the third time, will occur tomorrow).

Then I need to call back for the two HD DVR's, which will now both be for free.

Like jbraden, they didn't completely cover my costs. However, given all of the other things that they were already giving me for free, I didn't expect them to.

[Bill Broderick]

I don't believe it. After two months of having a D* installer come to my house, take a quick look at my existing two dish installation and tell me that I have an LOS problem, followed by the Halsted supervisor blowing off two appointments for a site survey, followed by purchasing an AT9 from ebay, only to have the seller's warehouse substitute an AU9 for it (which I haven't gotten a refund on yet), followed by the purchase of two AT9's (so that I would have one as a backup should there be problems in the future) and two canceled appointments with the installer that I hired, due to weather issues, today was finally the day to get my 3 dish solution installed.

The installer showed up at my house, took one quick look and said "You don't need a complicated install. I'm positive that I can get a good signal with a Slimline." Which is exactly what he proceeded to do. Not only does it work, but I get reception on Sats A, B & C than I ever did with my previous installation.

I had the Phase II dish installed before RCA came out with the adapter that converted the RGB signal to component. So it was installed without being able to test 119 on a receiver. When I got the receiver and found that 119 didn't work, the installer came back out and tried to adjust the dish with no success. What I didn't realize is that he never tried moving the dish to a different location (the Slimline is about 5 feet away from the Phase II). He ended up putting up a second, round, dish on the front of my roof, which required that I hire someone to trim a tree on my neighbor's property (they were happy that I asked them, because the branch that needed to be trimmed was hanging over their roof, so I ended up doing them a favor by paying for it to be removed.

Apparently, when the first installer showed up with the Slimline back in early September, he just assumed that, since I already had a multi-dish install, it wouldn't be possible to get a signal with a Slimline.

So, I guess the two AT9's that I bought on ebay, will now be sold on ebay. I won't be putting them on ebay for at least a few weeks (I'm going on vacation next week), so if anyone here is looking for an AT9 (or two) for a multi dish install, let me know. I'd rather sell them to someone from here than to sell them randomly on ebay.

[litzdog911]

Glad to hear you didn't need a complicated multi-dish setup, Bill. Congratulations on a successful installation.

[jefbal99]

Hey litzdog, i notice in your sig that you still have the dual AT9 setup listed, but I swear you said that you switched over to the 3 dish setup with separate dishes for 110 and 119.

What config are you currently using?

[litzdog911]

Hey litzdog, i notice in your sig that you still have the dual AT9 setup listed, but I swear you said that you switched over to the 3 dish setup with separate dishes for 110 and 119.

What config are you currently using?

Good catch. Yep, time to update the signature!

It's still sort of correct .... I'm using two AT9's, one to receive 99/101/103 and the other to receive just 110-deg W. Then we added a third dish just for 119-deg W. Works great!

[jefbal99]

Good catch. Yep, time to update the signature!

It's still sort of correct .... I'm using two AT9's, one to receive 99/101/103 and the other to receive just 110-deg W. Then we added a third dish just for 119-deg W. Works great!

Damn, take a pic and post it, thats gotta be one hell of a setup. I consider myself lucky that I can use a single dish and found a good enough place to hide it so the wife would ok it.

[Bill Broderick]

It's still sort of correct .... I'm using two AT9's, one to receive 99/101/103 and the other to receive just 110-deg W. Then we added a third dish just for 119-deg W. Works great!

In your original post, you indicated that you should be able to see 119 from the location where you have 99/101/103. Given that you are able to use your second dish solely to receive 110, shouldn't you be able to go back to a two dish solution, with the first dish receiving 99/101/105 & 119 and the second dish receiving 110? I would think that you could either connect Port 1 from one of the 110/119 LNB's and port 2 of the other 110/119 LNB to the primary LNB, which would be very similar to your intial setup. Or you could connect one port from each of the 110/119 LNB's to the appropriate combiners, which would be similar to your current setup.

Either way, if your original post is accurate and you can see 99/101/103 & 119 from the original location, I would think that you should be able to eliminate one dish in your setup.

[litzdog911]

In your original post, you indicated that you should be able to see 119 from the location where you have 99/101/103. Given that you are able to use your second dish solely to receive 110, shouldn't you be able to go back to a two dish solution, with the first dish receiving 99/101/105 & 119 and the second dish receiving 110? I would think that you could either connect Port 1 from one of the 110/119 LNB's and port 2 of the other 110/119 LNB to the primary LNB, which would be very similar to your intial setup. Or you could connect one port from each of the 110/119 LNB's to the appropriate combiners, which would be similar to your current setup.

Either way, if your original post is accurate and you can see 99/101/103 & 119 from the original location, I would think that you should be able to eliminate one dish in your setup.


OK Bill, where you were you two weeks ago :)

Seriously, that's a good idea. Of course, it's working now with the three dishes, so I'm not motivated to change it. And my AT9 for 99/101/103 doesn't have the sidecar LNBs mounted, although that could have been addressed pretty easily.

Besides, it's so much more impressive with three dishes! :)

[Bill Broderick]

OK Bill, where you were you two weeks ago :)


Until you posted that your setup was working using an AT9 for 110, I wouldn't have thought that it would work. I had assumed that there was some type of switch built into the small AT9 LNB that was combining 110 & 119 before sending it to the large LNB. However, the fact that you are able to combine the 110 output from the smaller LNB to the 119 from a different dish indicates that this isn't the case.

So, two weeks ago, I not only wouldn't have thought of this, I would have bet that the method that you successfully implemented wouldn't have worked either.

[litzdog911]

Until you posted that your setup was working using an AT9 for 110, I wouldn't have thought that it would work. I had assumed that there was some type of switch built into the small AT9 LNB that was combining 110 & 119 before sending it to the large LNB. However, the fact that you are able to combine the 110 output from the smaller LNB to the 119 from a different dish indicates that this isn't the case.

So, two weeks ago, I not only wouldn't have thought of this, I would have bet that the method that you successfully implemented wouldn't have worked either.

Good point. I was skeptical, too, and was prepared to replace that second AT9 with my old 18" dish with the Sat C LNB. But the Ironwood Tech was a pro and was convinced it would work. And it does. There is, however, a ~20-pt signal reading drop on my 110-deg readings (from mid-90's to mid-70's), but it's still good enough to work fine.

[litzdog911]

As requested, here are a couple of photos of my multidish setup. I'm using the combination scheme diagramed in the second picture here (except using an AT9 for 110-deg instead of an 18" dish with the SatC LNB) ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164


Photo of "dish farm"
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/dishfarm071109.jpg


Photo of combiners
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/combiners071109.jpg


And here's what I'm up against!
http://members.roadfly.com/litzdog911/trees071109.jpg

[jefbal99]

Nice setup up and DAMN, cut down some trees or at least cut yourself some holes in them.

[veryoldschool]

Good point. I was skeptical, too, and was prepared to replace that second AT9 with my old 18" dish with the Sat C LNB. But the Ironwood Tech was a pro and was convinced it would work. And it does. There is, however, a ~20-pt signal reading drop on my 110-deg readings (from mid-90's to mid-70's), but it's still good enough to work fine.
FWIW: the 110 low levels may be due to the fact that the LNB [I've been told] uses different voltages [requiring it to be fed through/by the AT9 multi-switch].
If the "old 18" with SAT C LNB" was used, "I'd bet" your levels would be back.

[Bill Broderick]

post removed

I had the 119 & 110 dishes mixed up.

[litzdog911]

Nice setup up and DAMN, cut down some trees or at least cut yourself some holes in them.

I wish I could cut them dow! But they're not on my property. And we have lots of tree-lovers in our neighborhood. You can bet that the thought of a little "midnight chainsaw massacre" has crossed my mind more than once. :)

[Bill Broderick]

I got lucky when I needed to have some cutting done in order to receive 119 back when I had the Phase 2 installed. One of the branches the blocked the LOS was from a neighbor's tree. Luckily for me, that large branch was hanging over the roof of their house.

When I asked if they would be OK with me paying someone to come trim the branch on that tree, I also offered to pay the tree guy to trim a few other branches that were also hanging over their house. They were more than happy to accept that offer.

[Ext 721]

Setup for slimline and triple sat (theoretical)

start with the triple. run two lines to the "for splitting" side of two splitter-combiners. Preferably these two are single-leg power passing and 950-2050 MHZ.

Run the power legs to a powered 4x8 switch, into it's 13vx22khz and 18vx22khz legs, respectively. Running the 13v and 18 v directly into the triple isn't a bad idea, and that would leave 8 ports for Standard def.

Run the unpowered legs of the splitters to a second set of splitter-combiners, into the unpowered legs. Be sure to match the voltages.

The "combined" ports of these other combiners...which !!MUST !! pass the full 250-2150 spectrum...should go to the respective ports of the wideband 6x8 (or 6x16) switch.

The powered legs go to the ka/ku dish, which should have it's 110 and 119 LNBs disabled. This might be accomplished by covering them with foil, then duct-tape, or possibly a heavy coat of metallic paint followed by directv gray.

Of course, the 13v and 18v ports of the 6x8 go to the ka/ku dish.

This setup pipes the 110 and 119 signal from the 3-lnb dish to the 6x8, allows passage of the 103 and 99 to the 6x8, and should not transfer (or require!)voltage to or from either dish location.

It should also give 8 freed-up SD ports, and 8 or 16 HD ports.

The splitter-combiners are not nessecarily standard equipment, but everything else is.

Your humble narrator,

Extension 721

[litzdog911]

Ext 721:

Review earlier in this thread and you'll see a similar approach was tried. Blocking the 110 & 119-deg LNBs with foil does not work. Even if they can't "see" the satellites, their signal still swamps a combined dish's signal. They would need to be electrically disabled, and the only way to do that with the SlimLine would require opening it up (not recommended).

It would great to have a suitable scheme using the Slimline since AT9's are getting harder to find. But I don't think this one will work.

[Ext 721]

Ext 721:

Review earlier in this thread and you'll see a similar approach was tried. Blocking the 110 & 119-deg LNBs with foil does not work. Even if they can't "see" the satellites, their signal still swamps a combined dish's signal. They would need to be electrically disabled, and the only way to do that with the SlimLine would require opening it up (not recommended).

It would great to have a suitable scheme using the Slimline since AT9's are getting harder to find. But I don't think this one will work.

Such a shame. I can see where random noise would interfere, but I'm not convinced the interference would be all that bad.

I'll have to get a "dead" one from my local HSP and see what's behind the screws.

tinker time can be fun.

[Ext 721]

Read earlier in this thread where I tried using the Flexport inputs on my Zinwell WB68. It didn't work.

Right...but that's because the software isn't designed to do that.

If it can get the 72.5 on either a 4x8 13v 22khz....OR a 18v 22khz (in the past, a switchover was made via software update) OR a flexport (again, software update)

then there's no reason whatsoever that a software update couldn't do the same for the 110/119.

at least for the D1x / H2x /HR2x series

Which was my point in the post.

[Ext 721]

I think it has to do with the fact that the 103, 110 and 119-deg satellites are "switched" together by the Receiver/multiswitch's 22kHz switching tone. Likewise the 99 & 101-deg satellites are together.

I'm fairly certain this little bit was responsible for HD receivers that would periodically "aquiring guide data, please wait" while watching a program...

they were flipping to the 101.

Thus, the 119 for guide data.

[CKNAV]

I just wanted thank guys in this thread for their hard work figuring out multiple dish approach. I recently switched to D* and could not receive all the satellites from one spot. I can get 99,101 and 103 from one, and 110, 119 from another spot. I used the method from post #171 and it worked like a charm.

Thanks a lot

[veryoldschool]

I can see where random noise would interfere, but I'm not convinced the interference would be all that bad.
This has been tried twice, with the same unsuccessful outcome.
"In theory" a 3 dB increase of noise should be all that happens, but "in fact", the signals are lost.

[Bill Broderick]

I'll have to get a "dead" one from my local HSP and see what's behind the screws.

tinker time can be fun.

Someone has already done that and has posted photos of the disassembled Slimline in this thread (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=107548)

It appears that there are 3 separate circuit boards in the Slimline. One for 99/101/103, one for 110/119 and one for the multiswitch. There are connections from the 99/101/103 circuit board to each of the other boards. A possibility, that hasn't been tested yet, is, that disconnecting the 110/119 circuit board from the 99/101/103 board, could produce the same results as not connecting the two separate LNB units on the Sidecar dish does. If so, a modified Slimline could be used in one of the 3 dish setups.

[carl6]

If someone wants to fess up a Slimline LNB assembly, I'll be happy to do the testing. I'm not willing to give up mine to the test though.

In fact, I'll go one step farther. I've got a spare 5-LNB. If someone will guarantee to replace the LNB assembly if I toast it in the testing, I'll do the test. If no damage is done and I can restore the dish to original functionality, no problem.

Carl

[hiker]

If someone wants to fess up a Slimline LNB assembly, I'll be happy to do the testing. I'm not willing to give up mine to the test though.

In fact, I'll go one step farther. I've got a spare 5-LNB. If someone will guarantee to replace the LNB assembly if I toast it in the testing, I'll do the test. If no damage is done and I can restore the dish to original functionality, no problem.

CarlI have a spare new CalAmp AU9 LNB that you could have. I never tested it since it came with the dish I installed and I replaced it with a WNC right from the start. GL

[carl6]

I have a spare new CalAmp AU9 LNB that you could have. I never tested it since it came with the dish I installed and I replaced it with a WNC right from the start. GL

I just sent you a PM. I'll reimburse the postage.

Carl

[jbraden]

I'm not sure that disassembling an AU9S LNB and cutting etches on the circuit board is the easiest way to deal with the decreasing avalability of the discontinued AT9 dish. I see Zinwell still has the type of LNBs used on the AT9 dishes listed on their web site here (http://www.zintech.com.tw/product/LNBF/LNB%20for%20U.S%20Market.html). See the last LNB models on that page. The satellite installations in Alaska and Hawaii use two dishes with one pointed at the 99/101/103 satellites and a second pointed at the 110/119 satellites. There are two LNB kits sold for these dishes, DTVAHKAKUKIT for 99/101/103, and DTVAH1019KIT for 110/119. These are available through online retailers. The 99/101/103 LNB seems to run a little under $100. In the lower 48 states we don't need a 1.2m dish, but I'd think this LNB could be mounted on a smaller dish, and could work with any of the solutions from this thread. It would be great if somebody who has experience with these LNB kits could contribute more information about them.

[litzdog911]

I'm not sure that disassembling an AU9S LNB and cutting etches on the circuit board is the easiest way to deal with the decreasing avalability of the discontinued AT9 dish. I see Zinwell still has the type of LNBs used on the AT9 dishes listed on their web site here (http://www.zintech.com.tw/product/LNBF/LNB%20for%20U.S%20Market.html). See the last LNB models on that page. The satellite installations in Alaska and Hawaii use two dishes with one pointed at the 99/101/103 satellites and a second pointed at the 110/119 satellites. There are two LNB kits sold for these dishes, DTVAHKAKUKIT for 99/101/103, and DTVAH1019KIT for 110/119. These are available through online retailers. The 99/101/103 LNB seems to run a little under $100. In the lower 48 states we don't need a 1.2m dish, but I'd think this LNB could be mounted on a smaller dish, and could work with any of the solutions from this thread. It would be great if somebody who has experience with these LNB kits could contribute more information about them.

I'm not sure if those larger dish LNBs could be modified to work with the smaller dishes. Typically the dish and LNBs are designed to be used together.

Has anyone seen a continental US supplier of these larger dishes with the kits mentioned above? For someone willing to put up with the "ugly factor" of the larger dishes, this could be an easy solution. But I've not seen them for sale.

[litzdog911]

If someone wants to fess up a Slimline LNB assembly, I'll be happy to do the testing. I'm not willing to give up mine to the test though.

In fact, I'll go one step farther. I've got a spare 5-LNB. If someone will guarantee to replace the LNB assembly if I toast it in the testing, I'll do the test. If no damage is done and I can restore the dish to original functionality, no problem.

Carl

Thanks Carl! Keep us posted.

[hiker]

...
There are two LNB kits sold for these dishes, DTVAHKAKUKIT for 99/101/103, and DTVAH1019KIT for 110/119. These are available through online retailers.
...Who are the online retailers?