How To Diplex OTA with the AT9 dish & MPEG-4

[jefbal99]

Any see any picture degradation with this setup. I am using it with 2 h20s and 1HR20. Maybe I am imagining things, but I feel like I am seeing a lot more artifacts on fast motion? Just wondering if it could be related to this setup in any way? It is working great, and maybe I am just overanalyzing the picture now. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

I have this setup for an H20 and an HR20. Its perfect

[jutley]

I've replaced that short jumper many times. Lots last winter when they were still pinched from being stuck in the box and being frozen. Many wanted to break. Adding a longer jumper also allows for the BBC to go behind a entertainment center when depth is an issue.

Robert...could you give a better idea of how you remove the short jumper? On the two BBCs I opened up the jumper seems to be glued on to the barrel connector and doesn't screw off. Am I missing something? Should it unscrew easily? I'd like to do just as you described and add a longer jumper to make the installation behind an entertainment center easier.

Thanks.

[mjferguson]

Anyone ever see a drip in PQ because of the mutliswitch they get with the 5lnb upgrade? I have done the OTA setup described here and my OTA channels look pretty good. My D* SD looks much worse than it did before though? Any ideas? I am very frustrated, I get a good signal, but could they installer have screwed something else up to make my PQ degrade?

[JustRob]

It would show the phase relationship of the 22 kHz signals.

I could have guessed that... but I was hoping for more actual measurements. If I wasn't on vacation, and had a spare SWM5 or equivalent, I could do the measurement at work.:grin:

[veryoldschool]

I could have guessed that... but I was hoping for more actual measurements. If I wasn't on vacation, and had a spare SWM5 or equivalent, I could do the measurement at work.:grin:
And if I had a scope here and two multi-switches, I could post pics. And if cows could fly.... :lol:

[Smooth Jazzer]

Anyone ever see a drip in PQ because of the mutliswitch they get with the 5lnb upgrade? I have done the OTA setup described here and my OTA channels look pretty good. My D* SD looks much worse than it did before though? Any ideas? I am very frustrated, I get a good signal, but could they installer have screwed something else up to make my PQ degrade?
Check your connections. The BBC does NOT have to be at the MSW. It has to be before the diplexer NOT after. I got my diplexer and my BBC indoors to protect them from inclement weather. The RG6 from the diplexer to the other diplexer must be straight and uninterrupted and then to the receiver with short RG6 coax jumper cables(8 in. long from the diplexer).
Good luck!

[jutley]

I just ordered a couple of diplexers and hope to get this solution going in my home next week. I had been holding out for an SWM8, but it doesn't seem that solution is going to be here very soon, so I'll run with some diplexers.

[Motleyfan]

I just want to thank everyone for all of the great information this year. I installed my slimline dish and 2 H20 receivers over the weekend. Hooked everything up exactly like it was discussed here... BBC's right after the WB68 multiswitch. Only problem I had was that I only got some of the new MPEG4 stations. OTA worked fine, SD worked fine, MPEG2 HD worked fine. The only way I could get everything to work correctly is to bypass the multiswitch. Did that and my 3 receivers are getting SD, all HD, OTA with no problems. BTW I'm using Spaun diplexers.

I bought the multiswitch back in Sept. but didn't install it till last Sat. Since it's older than 30 days Solid Signal won't exchange it but I did talk to Zinwell and they will fix it if I ship it to them. Anyone else experience any problems with multiswitches not working right? on 103B I got 2 channels in the 90's rest in the 0 range. Once multswitch eliminated everying in the mid to low 90's on all 103B channels.

Motleyfan

[Willis]

Before you say it can't be done, yes it can and doing so is easy. Done properly, the signals will not conflict. This has been tested and does work.

You simply need to relocate the B-Band Convertor (BBC) module to a convenient location (i.e., attic perhaps) and then diplex your OTA signal into the downlead after the BBC module. See? I told you it was easy.

The instructions that came with your MPEG-4 receiver instruct you to connect your BBC module to the receiver. However, it does not need to be right at the receiver and in fact can be located anywhere in the coax downlead between the AT9 dish and the receiver, or if an external multiswitch is used, anywhere between the output of the multiswitch and the receiver.

The only important thing to remember is the BBC module must be ahead of your OTA diplexer.

To keep it straight, here's the correct order of things:
1) Option 1 no external multiswitch, In the attic, connect the coax coming from the DISH to the INPUT of the BBC module. Connect the OUTPUT of the BBC module to the SAT connector of the Diplexer. Connect the TV/SAT connector of the diplexer to the coax cable that goes downstairs to the receiver. Connect your OTA signal to the TV connector of the diplexer.

2) Option 2, WITH an external multiswitch Do not tamper with the cables going to the INPUTS of the multiswitch. Use a short coax jumper to connect the INPUT of the BBC module to one of the OUTPUTS of the multiswitch. Connect the OUTPUT of the BBC module to the SAT connector of the Diplexer. Connect the TV/SAT connector of the diplexer to the coax cable that goes to the receiver. Connect your OTA signal to the TV connector of the diplexer.

Downstairs at the receiver, connect the coax from the attic to the TV/SAT connector of a second diplexer. Connect the SAT connector of the diplexer to the SAT input connector of your receiver. Connect the TV connector of the diplexer to the ANTENNA connector of your receiver.

Yes, you can use a splitter with your OTA input lead to have enough outputs available to diplex the signal in to the coax downleads. However, you cannot connect your OTA signal to any of the INPUTS of your multiswitch because a Ka/Ku multiswitch does not provide an OTA input connector.

edit: do not put the BBC module outside. It is not weatherproof.
edit: this concept only works if your BBC module is separate (external). If it's built-in, like on the HR10-250, you might not be able to use this idea but keep reading - the more we pursue this, the more we're learning

Thank you for the great advice! I did it this past weekend and it worked great

[Halr]

I searched, and hope I didn't miss this. Diplexing OTA antenna.. How about an amplified "disk" antenna. I have mounted one outside, and the wife hates it... I would love to put it in the attic, and diplex it. I was all set up to do it, when wait... it is amplified, with a power injector. Has that ever been tried? Or is just passive antennas all that would work?

[veryoldschool]

I searched, and hope I didn't miss this. Diplexing OTA antenna.. How about an amplified "disk" antenna. I have mounted one outside, and the wife hates it... I would love to put it in the attic, and diplex it. I was all set up to do it, when wait... it is amplified, with a power injector. Has that ever been tried? Or is just passive antennas all that would work?
The power injector needs to be before you start diplexing, so it would need to go in your attic and then the output would go to the first diplexer.

[Halr]

The power injector needs to be before you start diplexing, so it would need to go in your attic and then the output would go to the first diplexer.

that totally makes sense... :)

Sometime you can't see the forest through the trees...

Thanks..

[jefbal99]

I searched, and hope I didn't miss this. Diplexing OTA antenna.. How about an amplified "disk" antenna. I have mounted one outside, and the wife hates it... I would love to put it in the attic, and diplex it. I was all set up to do it, when wait... it is amplified, with a power injector. Has that ever been tried? Or is just passive antennas all that would work?

Exact setup that I have...

http://home.comcast.net/~johnny_x/images/OTAslimline.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~johnny_x/images/wiringrack.JPG

My power inserter is the top item in the middle, from there the OTA goes into a splitter and to the two diplexers.

[Halr]

I had a small problem last night, with a diplexer. I had one Terk that was left over from an old install I had, and a new RCA from Wallyworld. Poor, intermittent OTA signal to receiver, in the 40s. After no improvement by troubleshooting, drove to the Sat store, and bought 2 new Eagle Aspen diplexers ($5 ea) and installed them. All is well now, OTA sigs in the 70's. Is seems that having both diplexers matched in freq. passing ranges is optimum. 1st Diplexer and BBC installed about 50 feet from receiver in the attic, with no problems. But, I noted after install, that 101, 110 and 119 signals all in the 90's. 103 (b) however, is in the mid to lower 80's on most xpndrs. Possible alignment problem? Dish is only 1 week installed, at the new house. Since I didn't think to check, I don't know if moving the BBC that far upstream effected that at all, or if it was always that low. If the dish peak to 101 and 119 is good, can 103 be that low? I wonder if I need a peaking adjustment on the dish? Or, if moving the BBC upstream would cause signal degradation on the 103 (b) side? Seems I have had some audio whistles on occation, since the install.

[veryoldschool]

If the dish peak to 101 and 119 is good, can 103 be that low? I wonder if I need a peaking adjustment on the dish? Or, if moving the BBC upstream would cause signal degradation on the 103 (b) side? Seems I have had some audio whistles on occation, since the install.
Yes the 101,110,119 beams are wider than the 99 & 103 are, so you can easily have good levels from the Ku SATs and not be "nailed" on the Ka SATs.

[Halr]

Yes the 101,110,119 beams are wider than the 99 & 103 are, so you can easily have good levels from the Ku SATs and not be "nailed" on the Ka SATs.

This is the first time, I have ever had a dish installed.. I have been packing the same dishes around for a few years. I had an AT9, wanted an AU9, so I did the dishmovers deal this time to get the newer dish, with out going to Ebay. So, when you have one installed, and it isn't peaked (who came up with "dithered" anyway?) do you call the contractor back and have them adjust? If they charge for that, I will do it myself. But, if it is a service after install, warranty or whatever, then I would call them.

Any experience with that? It was that way prior to my OTA install.

Or, maybe I just want to get up there and do it myself anyway... :)

[veryoldschool]

This is the first time, I have ever had a dish installed.. I have been packing the same dishes around for a few years. I had an AT9, wanted an AU9, so I did the dishmovers deal this time to get the newer dish, with out going to Ebay. So, when you have one installed, and it isn't peaked (who came up with "dithered" anyway?) do you call the contractor back and have them adjust? If they charge for that, I will do it myself. But, if it is a service after install, warranty or whatever, then I would call them.

Any experience with that? It was that way prior to my OTA install.

Or, maybe I just want to get up there and do it myself anyway... :)
"dithering" came from the "old days" when the installers only had the Ku meters. Since the beam was wider, they couldn't center the Ka beam without finding the exact middle of the Ku by dithering.
With my install, I had them back out four times in the first week to correct "the installer from hell's" work.
You have 90 days of "free" service calls to have it done correctly.
I'd leave it to you whether you want to call and wait or just use your receiver [tuned to 103] to tweak the dish alignment.

[Richierich]

I'd like to hear from someone who has an HR10-250 (or other MPEG-4 HD DVR) with the built-in B Band convertor and who also might have a BBC module lying around to test with (perhaps borrow it from your H20 if you have one of those too.)

I'd like to find out:

1) will the built-in B-band convertor in the DVR pass 1650~2150 Mhz signals which have already been converted externally by an external BBC?

2) will the control signals pass through the receiver and work to also control an external BBC?

The way to find out the answers would be to attach a BBC to the sat input of your receiver/DVR and see if that input can still receive the Ka band (MPEG-4) signals. If it does, then we might still be able to use an upstream BBC to let us Diplex OTA into the same coax. That would sure be nice.

Though not listed on their web site, I'm sure if this was possible that Solid Signal would be only too happy to sell them separately.

HR10-250 isn't capable of decoding MPEG-4 signals so it shouldn't have an internal BBC. GREAT POST CAPTAIN!!!!!

[Kansas Zephyr]

As far as I can tell no D* IRDs have "built-in" BBCs.

They are all external.

Once the SWM is available to all, the BBC is built into those, eliminating the need for the external boxes.

However, for those that will continue to plug directly into the dish, or via older multi-switch, they will still use the in-line BBCs.

[f150intally]

Hey guys, I tried the configuration suggested here tonight with no success. I didn't realize till after i ordered the diplexers that I should've used channel master. I bought two channel vision diplexers, connected everything as suggested but it did not work.

my config: wb616, db4 antenna, 2x8 amplified splitter (ota), channel vision diplexers, hr20.

When I hooked it up, no locals and no 103b channels. wb616>>bbc+ota>>diplexer>>rg6>>diplexer>>ota+sat1.

cable length between the bbc and the receiver is quite long..... probably at least 50 ft. but it didn't work when i tried it on the bedroom receiver which is less than 20 ft cable length from bbc to receiver.

any ideas? Do I have to reboot the receiver at all?

[RAD]

Hey guys, I tried the configuration suggested here tonight with no success. I didn't realize till after i ordered the diplexers that I should've used channel master. I bought two channel vision diplexers, connected everything as suggested but it did not work.

my config: wb616, db4 antenna, 2x8 amplified splitter (ota), channel vision diplexers, hr20.

When I hooked it up, no locals and no 103b channels. wb616>>bbc+ota>>diplexer>>rg6>>diplexer>>ota+sat1.

cable length between the bbc and the receiver is quite long..... probably at least 50 ft. but it didn't work when i tried it on the bedroom receiver which is less than 20 ft cable length from bbc to receiver.

any ideas? Do I have to reboot the receiver at all?
Yes, reboot it so during the boot up process it can now see that it has two dish connections.

[carl6]

Actually, you are not changing the number of dish connections, so a reboot should not be necessary.

Make sure you are using the correct port for both connections on both diplexers, getting one backwards would cause your problem.

First thing to do is disconnect the ota antenna and connection (leaving the diplexers in) and see if satellite works. If not, then you either need a better diplexer or shorter cable run (or both). If it does, then add the ota back into the scheme, without the 2x8 amplifier and see what happens. Lastly, add the ota amp back into the circuit (I assume it is between the antenna and the first diplexer).

Carl

[veryoldschool]

The pigtail off the BBC needs to be pointing to the receiver and not the WB616 too.

[carl6]

The pigtail off the BBC needs to be pointing to the receiver and not the WB616 too.

Excellent point, and the first thing to check before doing all the other stuff I mentioned.

Carl

[RAD]

Actually, you are not changing the number of dish connections, so a reboot should not be necessary.

I didn't see him post that he was using the 2nd dish connection or not prior to doing this.

[Kansas Zephyr]

cable length between the bbc and the receiver is quite long..... probably at least 50 ft.
Before I got the SWM, I diplexed OTA after the BBC successfully with a >50ft. run between the BBC and the HR20.

Don't give up, yet.

...and +1 on double checking the BBC, they only work when the signal "flows" the right direction. The female end points toward the dish or multi-switch.

[f150intally]

I will try again and post some pictures so you kind folks can help me verify the installation. it takes a little time to get it all configured.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[jwd45244]

I will try again and post some pictures so you kind folks can help me verify the installation. it takes a little time to get it all configured.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

f150:

You need to do it like this:

Dish ----> Multi-switch
Multiswitch ---> piece of RG6 ---> BBC ----> Combining Diplexer (Sat In)
Antenna ----> Combining Diplexer (Antenna In)
Combining Diplexer ------> Splitting Diplexer
Splitting Diplexer (Sat Out) ------> SAT In on Receiver
Splitting Diplexer (Antenna Out) ------> OTA in on Receiver

For a DVR (HR20) you only need to do this on one cable on the other, just run it:
Multi-switch ----> BBC----> HR20 SAT In like normal.


BTW, Not all Diplexers are created the same. I had no luck with Terk or Phillips Diplexers. I used a Channel Master 4002IFD for a combining diplexer and a 4001IFD as a splitting diplexer and this worked perfectly.

[f150intally]

well,
i have hooked it up exactly as depicted by the great members of the forum in two different locations. One location is a run to the receiver of less than 20 ft. The other is 50+.

It worked on the shorter run perfectly. The long run, with the exact same configuration, it would not work. I removed all of the OTA connections and had just the satellite connected and it would not receive a signal for 103b. also my 101 sats were pixellating quite a bit. One thing I did not try was just using the bbc in the box with the multiswitch and no diplexer but I have a feeling it has to do with the distance between the bbc and the receiver. Either that or the channel vision diplexers I'm using. I wouldn't mind trying the channel master diplexers but don't want to drop another 30 on that (with shipping). For about 50-75 i can have a new cable run put in which will be the most reliable.

What do you guys think?

[houskamp]

well,
i have hooked it up exactly as depicted in two different locations. One location is a run to the receiver of less than 20 ft. The other is 50+.

It worked on the shorter run perfectly. The long run, with the exact same configuration, it would not work. I removed all of the OTA connections and had just the satellite connected and it would not receive a signal for 103b. also my 101 sats were pixellating quite a bit. One thing I did not try was just using the bbc in the box with the multiswitch and no diplexer but I have a feeling it has to do with the distance between the bbc and the receiver. Either that or the channel vision diplexers I'm using. I wouldn't mind trying the channel master diplexers but don't want to drop another 30 on that (with shipping). For about 50-75 i can have a new cable run put in which will be the most reliable.

What do you guys think?
If you can run the extra cable that will always be your best case..

[f150intally]

If you can run the extra cable that will always be your best case..

Well I ran the extra cable and am receiving signal strengths in the 90s for all local affiliates. I got lucky though. Having 9 foot ceilings in my house, local building code calls for the framers to install cross-studs at 4.5ft that run cross ways between the vertical studs. As you can imagine, this is a nightmare when you have to drop extra wires. I must have been thinking about this when I built my house because on the wall cavities adjacent to the wire drops through the wall my trusty stud finder picked up these cross-studs. However, the one where the wire dropped was straight through. I got lucky :hurah:

thanks for the help guys... bottom line here was that I think there is a physical distance limit between the b-band module and the receiver.

[Marty999]

I am in the process of replacing my HR10-250 with an HR 20-700. I’ve had OTA on the HR10-250 (with diplexors) and plan to keep it for the HR 20 (my reason for getting it). I’ve had a 5 LNB dish all along. I am, planning to move the HR 10-250 to another room until I replace it later on. I also have several legacy SD D*Tivos, which I am not rushing to get rid of. I have a WB68 multi-switch outside with 7 of the 8 outputs in use – serving 4 rooms.

After reading many excellent posts here and other threads, I am trying to decide on the best approach going forward.

Here are three options with their pros and cons:

Option 1. Direct OTA feed to the HR20-700 and adding BBC’s to the HR20 inside the House (I would move the current diplexor set-up to serve the new location of the HR10-250, which consists of a diplexor exiting the WB68 outside the house and another just before the receiver inside the house).
Pros – likely the simplest, but I need D* to run the new OTA wire inside the House. This presumes that the OTA signal can be split before to go to two locations, so I can have one OTA direct feed to the HR20 and the other continue to feed the diplexor to serve the HR 10-250.
Cons – It’s seems pretty temporary. As soon as I add another HR20, I need to redo the diplexor set-up used for the HR10-250 since it won’t work on the HR20.

Option 2. Move the BBC up closer to the WB68. Continue to use the WB68 but move the BBC closer to the WB68 (it’s only 10-15’ away and rearrange the diplexors.) Not sure this is possible in my instance since I’d need to install the BBCs outside, where the WB-68 is and needs to stay. What if I can cover these somewhat? Are there any other options?

One other question -- Would the set up of an HR21 with an AM21 involve the same steps to deal with the diplexors? Or would I have to go with option 3?

Option 3. Replace WB68 with a SWM.
Pros – simplify’s wiring. One line carrying both Sat and OTA diplexed inside the house; No BBC’s needed
Cons – SWM expense. I’m not really comfortable setting it up my self; also need to get power to the SWM. Is getting power as simple as plugging in the power to an outlet no less than 15’ away? Can the SWM be outside?

I've seen the links for buying the SWMs, but am I to presume that D* will not set them up for customers yet?

[TreyS]

I'm doing your option two and it works fine with my HR20-700 in one room and HR10-250 in another room. BBC is right next to the WB68.

I used this diagram to put everything in the right place.

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6109&d=1156285233

[Marty999]

I'm doing your option two and it works fine with my HR20-700 in one room and HR10-250 in another room. BBC is right next to the WB68.

I used this diagram to put everything in the right place.

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6109&d=1156285233

My set up for Option 2 above (moving the BBC's closer to the WB68) would require having the BBC outside. Does anyone have experience with them being outside? Are we talking shorting out the system or just wearing out more quickly? Any suggestions for covering or enclosing them?

[diverdra]

If I update my D* dish to the 5 LNB Ka/Ku dish and a WB68 multi-switch, will my current DirecTV receivers still work (obviously not able to support MPEG-4 HD channels)? Specifically, I have Hughes HD-DVR250 & Hughes HTL-HD

I’ll be adding HR21 receiver at a later date and would like to do the dish now.

Thanks!

[carl6]

Yes, the 5-LNB dishes are fully backward compatible with older receivers. Simply use the round or 3-LNB option on your older receiver as applicable.

Carl

[harsh]

I’ll be adding HR21 receiver at a later date and would like to do the dish now.Do the dish now and you gain nothing. You'd have to buy and install the dish and multiswitch entirely on your dime. Do it when you get your HR21 and it costs you nothing. There are much better ways of spending that money with DIRECTV.

[PixelFreak]

I have my SWM-8 installed and working correctly. I have the power inserter off of what we will call wire run A with an HR21 in the front room, and the second wire run B directly to my bedroom HR20. Both are working flawlessly with dual tuner capability.

I want to know if I can send my Comcast Internet cable into the OTA input of the SWM-8 and then diplex it off cable run A in the front room so I can have internet there?

Basically, there is a separate run completely isolated from the D* SWM-8 runs (call it wire run C) that only has Comcast Internet on it. I need to move the cable modem from that room into the room with wire run A (front room, power inserter) and want to know if it is possible by feeding it into the OTA of the SWM-8?

If this is possible, will the power inserter on that leg cause any problems?
Would I need to diplex it out before or after the power inserter (which is in the front room in the entertainment center before the receiver)?

TIA,
PixelFreak

[harsh]

I want to know if I can send my Comcast Internet cable into the OTA input of the SWM-8 and then diplex it off cable run A in the front room so I can have internet there?You need to find a different way. Cable modems aren't fond of splitters. It is likely that the SWM will clip off the non-OTA ranges that the modem needs.

DOCSIS modems send in the range of 5-42MHz (well below channel 2) and receive in the range of 85-860MHz (above channel 6 to UHF 78).

I'd recommend fishing an Ethernet cable or going with a wireless setup. Even at the reduced speed of wireless connections, you'll still outrun your cable connection.

[PixelFreak]

You need to find a different way. Cable modems aren't fond of splitters. It is likely that the SWM will clip off the non-OTA ranges that the modem needs.

DOCSIS modems send in the range of 5-42MHz (well below channel 2) and receive in the range of 85-860MHz (above channel 6 to UHF 78).

I'd recommend fishing an Ethernet cable or going with a wireless setup. Even at the reduced speed of wireless connections, you'll still outrun your cable connection.
That's is what I thought - argh.

I am already set up with a couple of wireless bridges in the house, so it works, but would love to have it back in the main room with run "A." Oh well, it's not worth fishing wires over at this time.

Thanks.

[docspencer]

I've tried to follow much of this threat - all pretty technical for me, but I think I understand the basics.

Now - the 64,000 dollar question - does this all work for the HR-21?

I'm thinking not, but please tell me I'm wrong......

[houskamp]

I've tried to follow much of this threat - all pretty technical for me, but I think I understand the basics.

Now - the 64,000 dollar question - does this all work for the HR-21?

I'm thinking not, but please tell me I'm wrong......
Same rules apply..

[jefbal99]

I've tried to follow much of this threat - all pretty technical for me, but I think I understand the basics.

Now - the 64,000 dollar question - does this all work for the HR-21?

I'm thinking not, but please tell me I'm wrong......

It will once the AM-21 add-on is released

[TreyS]

I've tried to follow much of this threat - all pretty technical for me, but I think I understand the basics.

Now - the 64,000 dollar question - does this all work for the HR-21?

I'm thinking not, but please tell me I'm wrong......


It will only work with he HR21 after you get the AM21...


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=123012

[DtvSlave]

I have this working correctly at my house using a 6x8 switch, however today we tried to do this with a 6x16 switch using security camera feed instead of ota. we had the diplexer setup on tuner 1 of the dvr and we got all zeros on the transponders.

Temporally we removed the bbc (i know this will cause us to lose the 103) and now we get signal and camera feed. Any ideas why this wouldn't work? We have swapped out the bbc's and diplexers to make sure they were good.

[carl6]

Was the security camera feed modulated onto a VHF or UHF television channel, or did you insert composite level video? The former (modulated) should work just fine. The latter (composite level video) would certainly cause the symptoms you saw, and could (at least a remote possibility) case other problems or damage.

Carl

[Matt9876]

No problem with diplexed OTA antennas, Many long term installs with diplexed OTA.

As long as you follow the diagrams / rules on page 1 and it functions correctly the first time, Long term success is likely.

Our area now has it's locals from DirecTV and no conflicts reported with the antenna on diplexed units.:)

[DesertFlyer]

You need to find a different way. Cable modems aren't fond of splitters. It is likely that the SWM will clip off the non-OTA ranges that the modem needs.

DOCSIS modems send in the range of 5-42MHz (well below channel 2) and receive in the range of 85-860MHz (above channel 6 to UHF 78).

I'd recommend fishing an Ethernet cable or going with a wireless setup. Even at the reduced speed of wireless connections, you'll still outrun your cable connection.

I am in the same boat as PixelFreak, and it's too bad to see it probably won't work as I have some fairly complex networking requirements that require my cable/modem be near my computer (wireless will not work). Has anyone actually tried diplexing a cable modem signal with success or failure?

[DtvSlave]

Was the security camera feed modulated onto a VHF or UHF television channel, or did you insert composite level video? The former (modulated) should work just fine. The latter (composite level video) would certainly cause the symptoms you saw, and could (at least a remote possibility) case other problems or damage.

Carl

We just ran it into the ota on the hr20 just like we would an off air antenna, but for some reason running it that way (6x16 > bbc > diplexer > (one line) > diplexer > out to sat 1 & ota), caused us to have 0's on the 119, 110 and 101.

Added
Customer has a 6x16 feeding 5 hddvr's, if they went with the swm8, am i correct that they would need 2 of them an 5 PI?

[harsh]

Customer has a 6x16 feeding 5 hddvr's, if they went with the swm8, am i correct that they would need 2 of them an 5 PI?Only 1 PI per SWM.

What channel (or frequency) does the security camera modulate on?

[DtvSlave]

Only 1 PI per SWM.

What channel (or frequency) does the security camera modulate on?

Channel 44


Is it possible to run 4 lines to a 6x8 then 4 lines from that to a swm8 so we could use 8 tunners from the swm8 then the other 4 from the 6x8?

[DtvSlave]

Is there some place to get install instructions on the swm8?

I have come across a few more questions and thought maybe they would be answered there instead of keep asking questions that have been more than likely answered several times, but everytime i do a "search" i get pages and pages to read through.

#1 the customer has 5 hr21's (not 20's like previously stated) 3 of them have 2 lines and 2 of them only have 1 line. Customer wants to see security cameras on 4 of the tv's, one of them only have a single line. Is it possible, since that only makes 8 tunes between 5 hddvr'd to use the swm8 with a splitter on 3 dvr's to make 6 tuners, then on the other 2 just plug the line into tuner 1, thus not using the other 2 tuners?

#2 if you only need one PI per swm8, does that mean that you put it near the switch?

# 3 using the info that i have i.e. 5 hr21, 3 with dual lines, 2 with single lines, can someone draw something up that shows me how it would be wired? Meaning where someone would put the PI and the splitters. I doesn't have to be fancy just a quick sketch to give me an idea.

[carl6]

#1 the customer has 5 hr21's (not 20's like previously stated) 3 of them have 2 lines and 2 of them only have 1 line. Customer wants to see security cameras on 4 of the tv's, one of them only have a single line. Is it possible, since that only makes 8 tunes between 5 hddvr'd to use the swm8 with a splitter on 3 dvr's to make 6 tuners, then on the other 2 just plug the line into tuner 1, thus not using the other 2 tuners?


Each TUNER counts against the 8, and you can't run only one tuner on an SWM fed DVR. So with a single SWM device you can feed a maximum of four DVRs. For your customers installation, you need to either use two SWMs or an SWM and a WB68.

You should be able to diplex security camers assuming you modulate them first (typically UHF modulators on channels 65 and up).


#2 if you only need one PI per swm8, does that mean that you put it near the switch?

It can be, but doesn't have to be, near the switch. You want at least 15 feet of coax between the SWM and the PI. If you put it near one of the DVRs, make sure you have power passing ports on any splitters between the SWM and PI.


# 3 using the info that i have i.e. 5 hr21, 3 with dual lines, 2 with single lines, can someone draw something up that shows me how it would be wired? Meaning where someone would put the PI and the splitters. I doesn't have to be fancy just a quick sketch to give me an idea.


Using the SWM, you only use one coax to each DVR, and as noted above the maximum is four DVRs. The coax is connected to the satellite 1/FTM input and you leave the Satellite 2 input open.

Where and how you use splitters is up to you. You can run SWM1 output directly to the PI and the output from the PI directly to one DVR, then take the SWM2 output and split it to feed the other three DVRS.

Or you can take the SWM1 output, feed it directly to the PI, then take the PI output and feed it to a splitter to feed 2, 3 or all 4 DVRs.

Or you can take the SWM1 output, feed it to a splitter that passes power on one output. Feed that output to the PI, then the output of the PI to a DVR and feed the other outputs from the splitter directly to the other DVRs.

If you want, you can run a separate coax from the SWM2 port on the SWM directly to another DVR or via a splitter to two or three DVRs. Again, the total tuner count cannot exceed 8 (2 per DVR) for the total SWM.

It does not matter if you take the SWM1 output and split it to all units, or if you divide it up between the SWM1 and SWM2 outputs, so long as the tuner count does not exceed 8, and the PI is connected to the SWM1 port.

Carl

[DtvSlave]

Thank you for the help! Just ordered one for the customer and will be installing it next week. Should be fun doing wiring it with a 6x16 switch. I see the swm8 has an off-air port, since there is no need to use bbc with the swm8, does that mean that we can use the off air port to get the hd locals?

[David MacLeod]

Each TUNER counts against the 8, and you can't run only one tuner on an SWM fed DVR. So with a single SWM device you can feed a maximum of four DVRs.
thats something that seems to be often overlooked when discussing the swm. on other places (really not tech sites) I have seen people saying 8 dvr's can be used which is not true. key way I remember it is 8 tuners or 4 dvr's.

[carl6]

Should be fun doing wiring it with a 6x16 switch.

Are you keeping both? You have 2 choices. First is to run them in parallel (split the four coax from the dish, and run one output from each splitter to the same port on both multiswitches). Second is to connect the SWM to four outputs of the 6x16.

I see the swm8 has an off-air port, since there is no need to use bbc with the swm8, does that mean that we can use the off air port to get the hd locals?

You can connect an off-air antenna to the antenna port on the SWM, then use diplexers at the receivers to extract the OTA signal. There is some question as to just how well the OTA mixing works in the SWM, some people prefer to use regular diplexers to insert the OTA rather than using the OTA port on the SWM.

Carl

[Budge]

This thread has been very useful, but it is SO LONG. I've tried to read as much of it as I can to find the answers I need, but enough time has passed that I'm not sure the answers are still valid. So can I get an update, please. :)

I have two HR20-700's being fed by an WB68. I'm trying to diplex my modulated security camera feeds. I have removed the BBC from one line of each HR20 and repositioned between the WB68 and the Diplexer. I seem to able to get all of my HD Sat channels still (how do you make sure?), but my modulated signals aren't working with the HR20.

Is the HR20 capable of showing modulated signals? The ANT menu asks me for my zip code, then tries to find all my local stations. But there doesn't seem to be a way to just search for my modulated channels.

Any thoughts? Is everyone switching to the SWM module, or does this diplexor method still work with the current satellites? Thank you.

[houskamp]

This thread has been very useful, but it is SO LONG. I've tried to read as much of it as I can to find the answers I need, but enough time has passed that I'm not sure the answers are still valid. So can I get an update, please. :)

I have two HR20-700's being fed by an WB68. I'm trying to diplex my modulated security camera feeds. I have removed the BBC from one line of each HR20 and repositioned between the WB68 and the Diplexer. I seem to able to get all of my HD Sat channels still (how do you make sure?), but my modulated signals aren't working with the HR20.

Is the HR20 capable of showing modulated signals? The ANT menu asks me for my zip code, then tries to find all my local stations. But there doesn't seem to be a way to just search for my modulated channels.

Any thoughts? Is everyone switching to the SWM module, or does this diplexor method still work with the current satellites? Thank you.
HR20 can ONLY recieve digital signals.. only way I can see it working is to connect the ant from diplexer to the tv (and switch to tv to view cams).

[robq391]

Any thoughts? Is everyone switching to the SWM module, or does this diplexor method still work with the current satellites? Thank you.


This method still works with current satellites. Use of SWM makes things a lil' neater (eliminating BBCs & diplexors on switch end) & gets 2 tuners to DVRs through 1 coax.

[David MacLeod]

You can connect an off-air antenna to the antenna port on the SWM, then use diplexers at the receivers to extract the OTA signal. There is some question as to just how well the OTA mixing works in the SWM, some people prefer to use regular diplexers to insert the OTA rather than using the OTA port on the SWM.

Carl


fwiw I noticed an across the board 15% drop in ota signal strength by using the built in ota port on swm-8.
I had to use diplexers, actually what worked best for me was a channel master combiner ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=CM4002IFD ) between PI and SWS-4 splitter. from there on normal inexpensive eagle aspen diplexers do the job fine for me.
its a trial and error experiment really.

[dettxw]

fwiw I noticed an across the board 15% drop in ota signal strength by using the built in ota port on swm-8.
I had to use diplexers, actually what worked best for me was a channel master combiner ( http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=CM4002IFD ) between PI and SWS-4 splitter. from there on normal inexpensive eagle aspen diplexers do the job fine for me.
its a trial and error experiment really.I experienced something similar though not sure I can put a number on the loss.
I'm back to running diplexers on a SWM line and it works just as well as with an output from the WB68.
One of these days I'll get a bigger antenna or maybe an amp and see how the SWM8 OTA port works then.

[David MacLeod]

I am using a distribution amp, 3 feeds go straight to wall plates for tv's themselves and 1 goes to the combiner. my weakest station is approx 40 miles (by air) away and I get 95-99% on all 3 am21/hr21 units.
the 15% drop was not dependent on the amp, IOW I had 15% drop no matter if amp was inline or not. amp just made it higher to start with of course.
not sure if that helps you or not.

[Budge]

HR20 can ONLY recieve digital signals.. only way I can see it working is to connect the ant from diplexer to the tv (and switch to tv to view cams).

Are there any digital modulators on the market?

[carl6]

Are there any digital modulators on the market?

Not on the consumer market. Figure a couple of grand or more for each digital channel you want to modulate.

[Budge]

Not on the consumer market. Figure a couple of grand or more for each digital channel you want to modulate.

OK, thanks. I went ahead and connected my modulated cameras directly to the TV ANT input. That works fine for seeing my cameras.

Now how do I check to be sure I haven't lost anything by relocating my BBC? Is there a channel I need to tune to in order to double check?

[idigg]

Now how do I check to be sure I haven't lost anything by relocating my BBC? Is there a channel I need to tune to in order to double check?

I would like to know this as well... I just moved all five BBC's right after my multiswitch to clean up the cables behind my three TV"s, and want to make sure I still have all stations. I have the same exact signal strengths...

[dave29]

I would like to know this as well... I just moved all five BBC's right after my multiswitch to clean up the cables behind my three TV"s, and want to make sure I still have all stations. I have the same exact signal strengths...

Your local HD's would be a start.

[idigg]

Ok, I get those all so I guess I'm good. Thanks!

[idigg]

Am I being paranoid? I moved my BBC's right behind my ZInwell WB68 after using a 1ft jumper cable. It seems the BBC"s get pretty warm to the touch? Not hot, but warm. My concern is I have 5 of these BBC's up in my suspended ceiling with insulation.

I just don't remember if the BBC's were warm to the touch when I had them hooked directly to the IRD's. Thanks for any advice.

[carl6]

Some amount of warmth would not be surprising, as the LNB and WB68 are powered from the receiver (via the coax through the BBC). So there is current flow there, which could generate heat.

[David MacLeod]

Am I being paranoid? I moved my BBC's right behind my ZInwell WB68 after using a 1ft jumper cable. It seems the BBC"s get pretty warm to the touch? Not hot, but warm. My concern is I have 5 of these BBC's up in my suspended ceiling with insulation.

I just don't remember if the BBC's were warm to the touch when I had them hooked directly to the IRD's. Thanks for any advice.
when I was using them they always felt slightly warmer than ambient to me.

[loudo]

Am I being paranoid? I moved my BBC's right behind my ZInwell WB68 after using a 1ft jumper cable. It seems the BBC"s get pretty warm to the touch? Not hot, but warm. My concern is I have 5 of these BBC's up in my suspended ceiling with insulation.

I just don't remember if the BBC's were warm to the touch when I had them hooked directly to the IRD's. Thanks for any advice.
Mine are connected directly to the receiver and are warm, but not hot.

[idigg]

Just to let everyone know, I got OTA diplexed into my setup perfectly. It was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be.

I moved BBC's right after WB68 multiswitch, BBC lead going into in/out of a Perfect Vision PVDP3 diplexer, new OTA antenna in attic going into diplexer, then coax going to living room and then splitting out again with a PVDP3.

I have to align my antenna better, but it is working great. This thread is great.