View Full Version : PCM audio output has pops and snaps (especially during commercial changes)
WANDERER
10-03-06, 07:43 AM
Am I the only one who absolutely cringes when channels change over from the PCM format to dolby digital? For over a year now I've been waiting for D* to fix this problem. It's worst here in Dallas on channel 5 local MPEG4. The problem is definitely associated with D*, none of my other equipment has this trouble. Earl do you have any good info on why this happens? It's just feels abusive to my very expensive home theater set. Is it on the D* side, or the local station side? :mad:
For those who may not know - the crackle is extreme - it sounds like a major static electric charge has been discharged right into the audio input on the receiver (yes I know its optical and that wouldn't matter). It's so bad my wife refuses to watch the HD side - it really is quite startling.
As far as I'm concerned this is a deal breaking problem with D*
Earl Bonovich
10-03-06, 07:54 AM
Where is your audio connected? TV or Stereo
I have had that problem before with my HR10-250, but haven't seen it with the H20 or the HR20... all three had been hooked to the amp via optical.
And the HR10-250 was getting it's signal OTA.
It is probably more on the local station side, turning the HD mode back on after a commercial brake while there is audio in the stream... I notice primarily now, my locals flip it (as I can see the amp change modes), in the 1-2 second black screen before the program starts again.
When the TV show goes from PCM to DD5.1, I don't get any pop or snap sound. For my reciever, the audio goes out for a split second. Same thing happens when the audio goes from DD5.1 to PCM. You might want to try annother audio reciever and see if you get the same results.
The only time I get a pop or snap sound is once in a while durring live hdtv sporting event. I think this has to do more with the TV program than my dvr or my audio reciever.
WANDERER
10-03-06, 08:11 AM
Where is your audio connected? TV or Stereo
I have had that problem before with my HR10-250, but haven't seen it with the H20 or the HR20... all three had been hooked to the amp via optical.
And the HR10-250 was getting it's signal OTA.
It is probably more on the local station side, turning the HD mode back on after a commercial brake while there is audio in the stream... I notice primarily now, my locals flip it (as I can see the amp change modes), in the 1-2 second black screen before the program starts again.
I agree - the fact that some stations exhibit this problem while some don't is probably the key. I sure wish D* would be agressive about fixing the problem though. You are right, it happens during the black screen just before the show comes back on after a commercial break. Do you think notifying the station of the problem would be fruitful? I'm running an optical (TOSLINK) straight from the HR20 to my HK AVR-525
Earl Bonovich
10-03-06, 08:45 AM
I agree - the fact that some stations exhibit this problem while some don't is probably the key. I sure wish D* would be agressive about fixing the problem though. You are right, it happens during the black screen just before the show comes back on after a commercial break. Do you think notifying the station of the problem would be fruitful? I'm running an optical (TOSLINK) straight from the HR20 to my HK AVR-525
I am not sure what DirecTV can do about it... They are just sending the audio stream that is found in the recording.
I would mention it to the local station, as it appears to be more on when they are making switch of the audio streams.
bonscott87
10-03-06, 09:37 AM
Never heard of this problem before and I don't have it. Seemless audio changing on my Yamaha A/V receiver.
Only with the HR20. I had optical hooked up, it would 'POP' and my receiver would display 'protect' and shut the sound off.
I since hooked the sound up with RCA (red/white) and it still does the same thing.
At first I thought it was my receiver, but now I see others are having this issue too I will wait to replace it.
bonscott87
10-03-06, 09:55 AM
If I remember correctly many of the DirecTivo's and the HR10's have this same issue when switching to PCM. Most times it's due to the way the particular A/V receiver is setup to handle PCM. Other times it was a bad optical port (I think the T-60's had this in particular).
So I don't think it's anything new to the HR20, just that there are 1000's of different ways various receivers decode PCM and DD and to make things 100% compatible is almost impossible.
tzphotos.com
10-03-06, 10:45 AM
Am I the only one who absolutely cringes when channels change over from the PCM format to dolby digital? For over a year now I've been waiting for D* to fix this problem. It's worst here in Dallas on channel 5 local MPEG4. The problem is definitely associated with D*, none of my other equipment has this trouble. Earl do you have any good info on why this happens? It's just feels abusive to my very expensive home theater set. Is it on the D* side, or the local station side? :mad:
For those who may not know - the crackle is extreme - it sounds like a major static electric charge has been discharged right into the audio input on the receiver (yes I know its optical and that wouldn't matter). It's so bad my wife refuses to watch the HD side - it really is quite startling.
As far as I'm concerned this is a deal breaking problem with D*
I believe this is your local station. I have this problem with WMAQ in Chicago. It has been going on since the begining of HD broadcasts. I heard it from all of my source equipment.(Hi-Pix PC HDTV, Samsung TV, and now the HR10-250) all connected to my Dolby digital decoder via both optical and coax.
I do also hear it on other stations, but not as much as WMAQ (NBC) Chicago.
I was experiencing the "snap" sound last week while watching Jeopardy on 86. The feed kept switching between HD and SD throughout the 30 minute length of the show. It's no fault of the HR-20 (at least not in my case). It has to do with the auto signal detect of my A/V receiver (a 3 yr. old Integra unit). The snap or pop sound is caused by the receiver expecting PCM and getting DD or vice versa. The receiver was locked onto DD and then suddenly get PCM when the show switched to SD. Then, the same would happen when the show would switch back to HD. This used to be a real problem back in the early days of DD. They corrected the problem (for the most part) by including a flag that would mute the digital input until it could be switched to the appropriate mode (PCM, DD or DTS).
WANDERER
10-03-06, 11:04 AM
I was experiencing the "snap" sound last week while watching Jeopardy on 86. The feed kept switching between HD and SD throughout the 30 minute length of the show. It's no fault of the HR-20 (at least not in my case). It has to do with the auto signal detect of my A/V receiver (a 3 yr. old Integra unit). The snap or pop sound is caused by the receiver expecting PCM and getting DD or vice versa. The receiver was locked onto DD and then suddenly get PCM when the show switched to SD. Then, the same would happen when the show would switch back to HD. This used to be a real problem back in the early days of DD. They corrected the problem (for the most part) by including a flag that would mute the digital input until it could be switched to the appropriate mode (PCM, DD or DTS).
Valuable feedback - thanks! I will say for the record both the H20 and the HR20 have the problem. The HR20 has made the obtrusive sounds better (than the H20) but they are still there... :(
Wanderer, I noticed that you are in Dallas, I get that alot with Ch. 5 KXAS. Just to let you know..
I can re-create the "pop/snap" sound with my DVD player. My Sony DVD has a "fast-play" feature that allows you to play a disc back at up to 1.4x normal speed. When I switch to anything other than normal speed, the receiver switches to PCM and when I return to normal speed, the receiver locks back onto the DD stream, but not before I get a "snap" out of it. This is most likely what is happening when a program goes to a commercial break and back again. Watching CSI last night on 80 (MPEG-2 CBS from NY), I didn't get any pops or snaps, not even when the Apple commercial came on (which is also 5.1).
WANDERER
10-03-06, 11:22 AM
Perhaps tonight I will turn off DD and just output PCM for the night and see if that gets rid of the horrific sounds. Does anybody think that will work?
Perhaps tonight I will turn off DD and just output PCM for the night and see if that gets rid of the horrific sounds. Does anybody think that will work? This might work. I'll be real curious to hear how it works out.
WANDERER
10-03-06, 11:29 AM
This might work. I'll be real curious to hear how it works out.
I'll post an update tomorrow and let ya know what happens?!
I wonder of others from the NY area getting their locals in MPEG-4 are having this problem as it doesn't seem to happen on the MPEG-2 NY feeds (at least not for me anyway).
Am I the only one who absolutely cringes when channels change over from the PCM format to dolby digital? For over a year now I've been waiting for D* to fix this problem. It's worst here in Dallas on channel 5 local MPEG4. The problem is definitely associated with D*, none of my other equipment has this trouble. Earl do you have any good info on why this happens? It's just feels abusive to my very expensive home theater set. Is it on the D* side, or the local station side? :mad:
For those who may not know - the crackle is extreme - it sounds like a major static electric charge has been discharged right into the audio input on the receiver (yes I know its optical and that wouldn't matter). It's so bad my wife refuses to watch the HD side - it really is quite startling.
As far as I'm concerned this is a deal breaking problem with D*
I have heard this with my new HR20 but before I had just a DirecTV receiver the Sony HD300 and the sound still popped and cracked then also.
I always figured it was due to my Hitachi RPTV which has the DD receiver built into it.
I think what Earl is saying is probably more correct that it occurs with the local channel from them switching back to HD.
Now that he mentioned it I think the sound popping/cracking problem is mainly on locals.
WANDERER
10-03-06, 11:40 AM
I wonder of others from the NY area getting their locals in MPEG-4 are having this problem as it doesn't seem to happen on the MPEG-2 NY feeds (at least not for me anyway).
The whole thing is really pretty cheesy ya know. It's obvious to me that D* needs some guys that check the real world implementation of their technologies. If it were my company and this sh** was happening in my home, I'd be in meetings with the engineers the next day figuring out a solution. My DVD/RECEIVER connection switches from PCM to DD and about 5 other formats on the fly with no problem. So why can't the H20/HR20 (or the local station encoding equipment) Fuming eh! :mad: :D
My DVD/RECEIVER connection switches from PCM to DD and about 5 other formats on the fly with no problem. So why can't the H20/HR20 (or the local station encoding equipment) Fuming eh! :mad: :D I can imagine. Makes me worry about what kind of new problems I might inherit when I finally upgrade to the "slimline" 5-LNB dish and start using the MPEG-4 NY locals.
;) I can imagine. Makes me worry about what kind of new problems I might inherit when I finally upgrade to the "slimline" 5-LNB dish and start using the MPEG-4 NY locals.
Wonder if it may be your type of A/V receiver?? Mine is a Pioneer SVX74 elite
and never had that problem ...could be area?? mine is in Atlanta...
WANDERER
10-03-06, 12:16 PM
;)
Wonder if it may be your type of A/V receiver?? Mine is a Pioneer SVX74 elite
and never had that problem ...could be area?? mine is in Atlanta...
It's hard to say for sure? Perhaps some receivers handle this sort of thing better than others. One thing I hat about mine is the 3 second delay (mute) when it switches from one format to another. UGGGHHH I HATE THAT!!!! I had an el cheapo sony that would switch modes instantly, but my $1200 525 won't :)
;)
Wonder if it may be your type of A/V receiver?? Mine is a Pioneer SVX74 elite
and never had that problem ...could be area?? mine is in Atlanta...I'm sure my receiver has something to do with it since it's a 3+ years old Integra DTR-6.2. As for area, my locals come from NY MPEG-2 and I generally don't have the snap problem (except when there are problems with the feed as I described earlier).
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