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They don't even make a utility that works with Vista yet.
I have Vista on an HP slimline desktop. I have problems with this forum. Takes forever for the "circle" to stop spinning on the tab and I can't do anything on the forum until the "circle" stops spinning except in the thread I am on. This only happens when I'm on this forum. Do you have similar problems? I am running a 3.3 Gig that is wickedly fast, yet only this forum slows it down. Any thoughts on this?
Anybody else have problems that might be caused by Vista?
um, yes, the Tivo (HR10-250, which in my case has a 1 year old 750 gig drive in it) gives you the capacity in both SD hours and HD hours....
in system information: "Variable, up to 96 HD or 637 SD hours"
admittedly, just a ball park estimate, but more informative than nothing... :) or % used. Once I have a boatload of recordings, I will have a better feel for it I guess...
I knew that. I think what we are talking about is the amount of time left or time used. The meter on the bottom of the list gives a running percentage of available space.
On a TiVo, in the settings windows the amount of recording space is a constant, no matter how much content you have on the DVR.
We've had many posts and discussions on how many hours you can get on any of the drives used on the HR20s. Never seen a definitive answer. Don't think there can be one. Unless you recorded the same program over and over until the HD was full, hmmm...
VOS! How would I do that?
P Smith
12-01-07, 05:23 PM
And how it connect to eSATA disks ?
Would by wise to move the post out into Vista or forum issues threads.
I have Vista on an HP slimline desktop. I have problems with this forum. Takes forever for the "circle" to stop spinning on the tab and I can't do anything on the forum until the "circle" stops spinning except in the thread I am on. This only happens when I'm on this forum. Do you have similar problems? I am running a 3.3 Gig that is wickedly fast, yet only this forum slows it down. Any thoughts on this?
Anybody else have problems that might be caused by Vista?
I use OTA, which is mpeg2, primarilly because the HD locals here in Phoenix were having too many breakup (mostly audio, but some video too) issues over SAT. The added benefit is that I now get the CW too. Unfortunately It cost me one sat input as I only ran four cables to my family room and I have 2 HR20's there.
Hola, Shaggy!
Is your dish subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods? And if it is, do you have dropouts on really bright days?
I just picked up a 750gb FAP. I didn't realize until I got home that it had been opened. Everything is in the box that's supposed to be.
I wish I had remembered that this came with every cable imaginable except the eSATA.
SIIG type 2 cable you'll be needing.
I have four FAPs running for months without a problem. I have had problems with HR20s and the eSATA function. I would suspect the DVR. I've had somewhere between 25-30 HR20s and out of all of them, I think 3 700s and several 100s would not recognize the FAP.
Were I you, I would get a replacement DVR.
I have three HR20-700's, each with a 750GB Seagate Freeagent Pro attached.
On one of them, the drive appears to be being reformatted every week or so. I lose all recording, season passes, etc. There are no error messages, just periodically the drive becomes completely empty. I can go ahead and redo all my season passes, and then it works fine for a week or so, and then poof all gone again. My presumption is the drive is glitching or getting corrupted and the HR-20 is noticing this and reformatting it. Brings up the need for a log and better error reporting to help debug issues like this.
I had first thought this might be heat related because both devices were in the same closed cabinet and the drive in particular did get warm, but I since have installed a fan and put them in different cabinets and no change in behavior.
My first thought is to return the Freeagent Pro for a warranty replacement, but I wondered if anyone had seen similar before - could this be the HR20 causing the problem or is it more likely to be a bad drive.
And how it connect to eSATA disks ?
Would by wise to move the post out into Vista or forum issues threads.
I will, but in the interim...
And how it connect to eSATA disks ?
Would by wise to move the post out into Vista or forum issues threads.
Post 2249 of this thread also references Vista. Stay consistent, now.
rsblaski
12-01-07, 05:52 PM
I have three HR20-700's, each with a 750GB Seagate Freeagent Pro attached.
On one of them, the drive appears to be being reformatted every week or so. I lose all recording, season passes, etc. There are no error messages, just periodically the drive becomes completely empty. I can go ahead and redo all my season passes, and then it works fine for a week or so, and then poof all gone again. My presumption is the drive is glitching or getting corrupted and the HR-20 is noticing this and reformatting it. Brings up the need for a log and better error reporting to help debug issues like this.
I had first thought this might be heat related because both devices were in the same closed cabinet and the drive in particular did get warm, but I since have installed a fan and put them in different cabinets and no change in behavior.
My first thought is to return the Freeagent Pro for a warranty replacement, but I wondered if anyone had seen similar before - could this be the HR20 causing the problem or is it more likely to be a bad drive.
A relatively simple trouble shooting idea:
Pull the FAP that reformats and connect it to one of the hr20s that does not have the problem. If the drive still reformats, you then know that it is the FAP. If it continues to run, you would have to connect one of your good FAPs to the problem hr20 and see if the same thing happens. Then you would know if the problem is the hr20 or FAP.
Good luck,
Rick
Sirshagg
12-01-07, 06:37 PM
Hola, Shaggy!
Is your dish subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods? And if it is, do you have dropouts on really bright days?
It's possible - Don't really know what you mean by "intense" sunlight. I will say that it only happens to my HD locals and most of what I watch on the HD locals is prime time 7pm - 10pm diring which time the sun is generally not out.
rsblaski
12-01-07, 06:46 PM
Hola, Shaggy!
Is your dish subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods? And if it is, do you have dropouts on really bright days?
Just curious...Is there a known problem with heat/sunlight?
I live in southern Nevada and we get weeks of 100 plus degree heat and sunlight and I have never had a problem with reception.
I get all signals from the sat due to inconsiderately situated mountain ranges.
pjo1966
12-02-07, 12:47 AM
SIIG type 2 cable you'll be needing.
Do they sell those at Fry's? I need to be able to walk into a store and buy something after work tomorrow. I don't want to wait until Monday to set this up. I need to give it time to populate the guide so I can start setting up recordings.
Do they sell those at Fry's? I need to be able to walk into a store and buy something after work tomorrow. I don't want to wait until Monday to set this up. I need to give it time to populate the guide so I can start setting up recordings.
I bought mine at Best Buy -$19.99. Here's the model number:
PNY - 6' eSATA Cable - Model: P-ESATA6FT-RF SKU: 8572127
"Compatible with external Serial ATA hard drives; 7-pin male-to-male connector; 6' cable"
But I advise you to go to Best Buy 'online' first, then search for stores in your area that have it in stock. Armed with that info, print out the description page and take it with you. If you get an electronics clerk like mine, they'll have no idea what an eSATA cable is, then doubt that they even have one. I had to insist that per bestbuy.com, their store had them in stock!
"Well, maybe we do and maybe we don't" was his response.
After much looking, he finally came up with it!
Now if I can only use the dern thing - see my post #2249.
Good Luck,
Bert :(
pjo1966
12-02-07, 09:21 AM
I bought mine at Best Buy -$19.99. Here's the model number:
PNY - 6' eSATA Cable - Model: P-ESATA6FT-RF SKU: 8572127
"Compatible with external Serial ATA hard drives; 7-pin male-to-male connector; 6' cable"
But I advise you to go to Best Buy 'online' first, then search for stores in your area that have it in stock. Armed with that info, print out the description page and take it with you. If you get an electronics clerk like mine, they'll have no idea what an eSATA cable is, then doubt that they even have one. I had to insist that per bestbuy.com, their store had them in stock!
"Well, maybe we do and maybe we don't" was his response.
After much looking, he finally came up with it!
Now if I can only use the dern thing - see my post #2249.
Good Luck,
Bert :(
Thanks for the detailed info. I have one waiting for me at a Best Buy that's on the way home from work. I'm grateful for any excuse to avoid Fry's this time of year.
It's possible - Don't really know what you mean by "intense" sunlight. I will say that it only happens to my HD locals and most of what I watch on the HD locals is prime time 7pm - 10pm diring which time the sun is generally not out.
Just wondered what effect that bright sun might have during the day on your dish and subsequently your HR20s. I know that I, in NJ have suffered dropouts during the day from "intense sunlight". Since the HR20s are always "on", could the sun be causing dropouts during the day and screwing up the DVR? Sounds far fetched, but... Can't help but wonder if other people in sunny climes have the same problem.
Just curious...Is there a known problem with heat/sunlight?
I live in southern Nevada and we get weeks of 100 plus degree heat and sunlight and I have never had a problem with reception.
I get all signals from the sat due to inconsiderately situated mountain ranges.
Has happened to me on several occasions during the summers. Nothing else is in the way of my dish and it only happens when the sun is shining at an angle on my dish. This is just a WAG on my part. But if it happened several times during the day might that not screw up the DVR? Again, just a WAG.
Has happened to me on several occasions during the summers. Nothing else is in the way of my dish and it only happens when the sun is shining at an angle on my dish. This is just a WAG on my part. But if it happened several times during the day might that not screw up the DVR? Again, just a WAG.
Rich,
With the empirical data you have, I believe that it’s called a “SWAG” rather than a “WAG.” (“Scientific WAG”)
Regards, Bert :sure:
Rich,
With the empirical data you have, I believe that it’s called a “SWAG” rather than a “WAG.” (“Scientific WAG”)
Regards, Bert :sure:
Yet another acronym that nobody will be able to figure out if it is not used in the correct context.
Is that enough empirical data to make a "scientific" WAG? I don't think so. Would be nice to see a whole bunch of replies from people in intensely sunny climes that are having problems. I know it doesn't take much to drive a computer crazy and his location made me curious.
For those of you who don't know, a WAG is a Wild Assed Guess. Which turn out to be correct more times than you would think. Especially when troubleshooting electrical devices. And yes, an HR20 is an electrical device.
I apologize to the moderators in advance, but Wild Buttocked Guess didn't sound right. And remember, a very famous person rode into Jerusalem on the back of an "ass".
Rich
Is that enough empirical data to make a "scientific" WAG? I don't think so. Would be nice to see a whole bunch of replies from people in intensely sunny climes that are having problems. I know it doesn't take much to drive a computer crazy and his location made me curious. Rich
Hi Rich,
Probably this should be the subject of a different thread, but as long as we're here now, I'll add my two-bits. We live in Sunny Southern California in a mountainous area. We have a straight shot at the satellites, nothing to impair the view. Living at 3200 ft altitude, we have all four seasons, including an occasional snowfall. In the summer, we quite often have 100+ degree days.
I've only recently started using my HR21/5LNB dish so from that standpoint I can add very little data. We have watched a couple of daytime football games with no problems, thus far. Having said that, we've used DirecTV for years on several different DTiVo's including an HR10-250. And as I write this, we also use a second dish for DirecWay [now Hughes.net] Two-way Satellite for the Internet.
In answer to your earlier question:
Is your dish subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods? And if it is, do you have dropouts on really bright days?
Our dish(s) ARE subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods. And NO, as far as I've ever noticed, have we ever had any noticeable dropouts on really bright days. Our days are normally 'bright' days with the very rare exception of an occasional foggy morning.
(And having too little empirical data has never stopped me from making a SWAG! Doesn't mean it was right or wrong - Just a SWAG, after all!)
Bert :)
Earl Bonovich
12-04-07, 10:33 AM
Guys... this thread is for eSATA...
Not light on the dish... that would need to be a discussion in another thread.
Hi Rich,
Probably this should be the subject of a different thread, but as long as we're here now, I'll add my two-bits. We live in Sunny Southern California in a mountainous area. We have a straight shot at the satellites, nothing to impair the view. Living at 3200 ft altitude, we have all four seasons, including an occasional snowfall. In the summer, we quite often have 100+ degree days.
I've only recently started using my HR21/5LNB dish so from that standpoint I can add very little data. We have watched a couple of daytime football games with no problems, thus far. Having said that, we've used DirecTV for years on several different DTiVo's including an HR10-250. And as I write this, we also use a second dish for DirecWay [now Hughes.net] Two-way Satellite for the Internet.
In answer to your earlier question:
Is your dish subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods? And if it is, do you have dropouts on really bright days?
Our dish(s) ARE subjected to intense sunlight for extended periods. And NO, as far as I've ever noticed, have we ever had any noticeable dropouts on really bright days. Our days are normally 'bright' days with the very rare exception of an occasional foggy morning.
(And having too little empirical data has never stopped me from making a SWAG! Doesn't mean it was right or wrong - Just a SWAG, after all!)
Bert :)
I have pondered the issues and my memory is that the dropouts were on my dual LNB dish. I don't think I've ever seen it happen on the 5 LNB dish. I guess I really shouldn't have brought it up at all.
As to adding the "S" onto WAG, I think that is the wrong thing to do. Can a "WAG" be a "SWAG"? Doesn't that create a paradox? The post that suggested it was funny tho, and a good chuckle is worth a bottle of Centrum Silver.
I rarely notice the weather affecting my reception, although I did have to climb up on the roof last winter and brush off about a foot of snow that had accumulated on the dish. Under Fred's careful scrutiny, of course.
Rich
Guys... this thread is for eSATA...
Not light on the dish... that would need to be a discussion in another thread.
Sorry. Leaving now.
Bump, anyone? Thanks
I am currently using a Free Agent Pro 750, but now wanting more space. If I purchase a 1.5 TB eSata enclosure with drives, can I then copy the content from the FAP to the new drive using my computer and be recognized by the HR20-700? I would use some sort of disk-to-disk copy program doing an "image" copy.
Secondly, would this same trick work if I used a 1TB replacement internal drive?
Thanks
Tony
There is no chance of copying programs across. Reasoning doesn't come into play where copy protection is involved.
So, how are the 21s doing with the eSATAs? I am especially concerned with the Seagate Free Agent Pro 750s. My Costco is selling the 21s for $269 as I write this.
My heart is filled with lust for a 21. I am even willing to pay for one. But I gotta have the Seagate to go with it.
All info will be greatly appreciated.
Thanx,
Rich
My heart is filled with lust for a 21. I am even willing to pay for one. But I gotta have the Seagate to go with it.If you're going to throw out the internal hard drive, why go with the HR21? You'll pay how much to get no OTA tuners and a black case?
pjo1966
12-09-07, 08:58 AM
So, how are the 21s doing with the eSATAs? I am especially concerned with the Seagate Free Agent Pro 750s. My Costco is selling the 21s for $269 as I write this.
My heart is filled with lust for a 21. I am even willing to pay for one. But I gotta have the Seagate to go with it.
All info will be greatly appreciated.
Thanx,
Rich
Not many positive results (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=109690), especially with the FAP. That's what I had and I ended up just disconnecting it and working off the original drive.
If you're going to throw out the internal hard drive, why go with the HR21? You'll pay how much to get no OTA tuners and a black case?
Aren't the processors on the 21s upgraded? And if so, would that not mean a better picture, or improved performance by the DVR? I'm sure I read on one of the threads that the processors are improved or upgraded. I don't use an antenna.
Rich
shendley
12-09-07, 02:59 PM
I've heard some reports that the 21 is less vulnerable to loss of signal issues on isolated channels and mpeg4 pixelation problems. But I'm with you: I just don't want it if it won't work with my Seagate FAP.
Aren't the processors on the 21s upgraded? And if so, would that not mean a better picture, or improved performance by the DVR? I'm sure I read on one of the threads that the processors are improved or upgraded. I don't use an antenna.
Rich
I've heard some reports that the 21 is less vulnerable to loss of signal issues on isolated channels and mpeg4 pixelation problems. But I'm with you: I just don't want it if it won't work with my Seagate FAP.
How does D* do things like this? How does a company that still doesn't have it's first proprietary HD DVR working as well as it should come out with a new "upgrade" that shockingly doesn't work as well as it should?
Makes you think D*'s profit margin must be great. Some companies sell stuff that everybody wants and they don't know what to do with the profits.
Volkswagen proved years ago with the Beetle that if you take a basic design and just slightly improve it every year, you can make a sizable profit. I had hoped D* would follow that model.
Without the FAPs (and I've tried several different eSATAs and the FAP is the best and most reliable and quietest) I do believe I would put internal drives in. This is really frustrating. I don't NEED the 21. I WANT the 21, but I NEED the FAP to satisfy my needs. And I don't believe that D* will do one thing about the internal drive change as long as the original internal drive is in the unit when it is returned at some future point in time. Hypothetically, of course. I have no intention of ever opening one of these 2xs ever.
Rich
Aren't the processors on the 21s upgraded? And if so, would that not mean a better picture, or improved performance by the DVR? The picture quality should be the same as many of the key chips are the same. Raw processing power <> image quality.
User interface speed improvements show up in some areas while other features are reported as more sluggish.
Combine these changes with all of the apparent inconsistencies and you really don't know what you're going to get if you demand one model over another.
Combine these changes with all of the apparent inconsistencies and you really don't know what you're going to get if you demand one model over another.
Agreed. I slept on it and my lust is not so great today. Thanx. Sometimes I get out of control when I want, really WANT, something. Good logical argument. I will wait. Oh, Fred concurs with you.
Rich
elixir26
12-14-07, 08:49 AM
I just got an e-mail alert from Buy.com for the Cavalry 1TB hd and enclosure. I couldn't find the brand of hd they put in it but it looks like a good price for a 1 TB solution.
Cavalry 1TB (Single Disk) Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) External
Hard Drive
SAVE $158.00
FREE BUDGET SHIPPING
Buy.com price: $228.99
List price: $386.99
sailermon
12-16-07, 04:34 PM
For you Jeff, and others who've tried the My Book series drives, a possible solution.
I've been interested in the My Book drives since I found their 1TB "Home Edition" on sale recently at Costco for only $299. If this would work, I hated to settle for a 750Gb FAP. I bought that 1TB drive two days ago.
I may've hit on why they won't work 'straight out of the box.' I've reformatted my drive and now I'd like to see if it works.
Here is the logic behind this possible solution:
WD supplies the drive, in their words, "Pre-formatted as a single FAT32 partition for compatibility with all updated Windows and Macintosh operating systems." They do explain how to reformat the drive for Windows 2000 and up, as NTFS, which I did on a Win XP machine.
My Seagate Free Agent (USB) backup drive came with NTFS formatting. I can’t seem to determine from the Seagate web site just what format the FAP model initially comes with but I'm willing to bet that it's also NTFS.
That suggests to me that if an HR20/21 can 'reformat' a Free Agent Pro then it should also be able to reformat my WD My Book 1TB Home Edition drive, which I've reformatted from FAT32 to NTFS.
My problem is this: In the past I've added bigger internal drives to three other DirecTiVo's and used TiVo's "System Information" to read the new "Recording Capacity." (I already miss TiVo on my two-week old HR21!)
Today I wanted to know where my HR21's existing capacity is shown. I know what DTV says it is, but is it detailed on the HR20/21 system somewhere like the old TiVo System Info?
If not, can anyone tell me how the new recording capacity is determined? If this actually works, I'll be back on SOON to pass along the good news!
(If it doesn't, I guess I'll otherwise be battling new blankety-blank #$%&^$#@ VISTA problems, trying to use it in my Vista box!)
Thanks, Bert :D
P.S. I'm soooooooo sorry I mentioned Vista in this thread - It was only a joke about the other problem in my life.
Now if I could only get some help on this one!!! Where are all the HR20/21 eSATA recording capacity Guru's when I need them?
I think you are on the right track with this and I also think the 1TB My Book would be a nice solution.
Have you found out any more about making it work?
How could the factory formatting of the drive interfere? I was under the impression that the receiver's first act was to reformat the drive in its own special way.
A problem came up today that I can't quickly find an answer for here. (Outside of the first post in this thread, is there a summation for various contingencies? Like the one below.) I've looked but don't see this problem -- & we need the FAP drive ASAP...
The image on my HR20-100 froze overnight.
Nothing responded. I hit "reset."
The "My Playlist" that then appeared was for the internal drive -- which I hadn't seen for weeks, since connecting an FAP 750, using the PNY cable at Best Buy. The PNY cable worked immediately, btw.
(But, yes, be sure you call ahead to verfiy it's there -- AND be sure the CSR finds it & tells you on the phone what they're holding. I called & the CSR said she had it in her hand, but it wasn't an eSATA. It took 3 clerks 35 minutes to find it -- "in the back.")
The programming -- & the Prioritizer & other lists -- are still there. All that's missing is most of the To Do list -- because the upcoming programming info is still being repopulated.
But now what? What may have caused it? (E.g., anything that could be prevented -- like unplugging the FAP before a predictable/scheduled D* software download?)
Did I do the correct thing for a frozen picture? Or should the FAP be disconnected before hitting the reset? Or what?
Will the programming still be on the FAP?
Will the upcoming programming info be missing on the FAP, requiring looking online for any info -- & scheduling everything by Manual Record -- for the next 24 hours?
What's the safest sequence to follow at this point? Disconnect the FAP & then reconnect as when connecting for the first time?
Thanks very much!
shendley
12-17-07, 09:48 PM
Yeah, I'd just set it up like you did the first time, unplugging the HR20, plugging in the FAP and then plugging in the HR20 (with the two connected, of course). I suspect that will bring it back. I've restarted my 20 innumerable times and have it come up recognizing the FAP like it should . . . except for one time. I can't even remember all the circumstances. But everything worked fine after I pulled the plug and restarted as in the first time I set it up.
A problem came up today that I can't quickly find an answer for here. (Outside of the first post in this thread, is there a summation for various contingencies? Like the one below.) I've looked but don't see this problem -- & we need the FAP drive ASAP...
The image on my HR20-100 froze overnight.
Nothing responded. I hit "reset."
The "My Playlist" that then appeared was for the internal drive -- which I hadn't seen for weeks, since connecting an FAP 750, using the PNY cable at Best Buy. The PNY cable worked immediately, btw.
(But, yes, be sure you call ahead to verfiy it's there -- AND be sure the CSR finds it & tells you on the phone what they're holding. I called & the CSR said she had it in her hand, but it wasn't an eSATA. It took 3 clerks 35 minutes to find it -- "in the back.")
The programming -- & the Prioritizer & other lists -- are still there. All that's missing is most of the To Do list -- because the upcoming programming info is still being repopulated.
But now what? What may have caused it? (E.g., anything that could be prevented -- like unplugging the FAP before a predictable/scheduled D* software download?)
Did I do the correct thing for a frozen picture? Or should the FAP be disconnected before hitting the reset? Or what?
Will the programming still be on the FAP?
Will the upcoming programming info be missing on the FAP, requiring looking online for any info -- & scheduling everything by Manual Record -- for the next 24 hours?
What's the safest sequence to follow at this point? Disconnect the FAP & then reconnect as when connecting for the first time?
Thanks very much!
Everything seems to have been lost from the FAP external drive!
After posting (below) I tried the usual setup procedure:
1. Disconnected the power from the HR20 & the FAP 750, then disconnected the cable from both.
2. Waited 5 minutes.
3. Plugged in & turned on the eSATA.
4. Waited 5 minutes.
5. Connected the cable to the eSATA & then the HR20.
6. Plugged in the HR20.
Result was a blank "My Playlist" (with 100% available, versus the 5% available before the picture froze today & required a reset). The FAP otherwise appears normal; it is recording & playing back perfectly.
Earl, can you please tell us what may have caused this? Thanks. I've read about 80 pages of the thread, & done a search, but can't find anything on this. Wondering what steps users should take when the picture freezes. I.e., did I do something wrong? Is there a list of things that should never be done?
Also, are the files/recordings still accessible to users or professionals -- like Windows files that have disappeared but can be retrieved on a computer? I would pay to have them found.
Can the first post be updated by adding any known things to avoid?
I'd sure appreciate any help. Lots of irreplaceable recordings were on there. Thank you.
A problem came up today that I can't quickly find an answer for here. (Outside of the first post in this thread, is there a summation for various contingencies? Like the one below.) I've looked but don't see this problem -- & we need the FAP drive ASAP...
The image on my HR20-100 froze overnight.
Nothing responded. I hit "reset."
The "My Playlist" that then appeared was for the internal drive -- which I hadn't seen for weeks, since connecting an FAP 750, using the PNY cable at Best Buy. The PNY cable worked immediately, btw.
(But, yes, be sure you call ahead to verfiy it's there -- AND be sure the CSR finds it & tells you on the phone what they're holding. I called & the CSR said she had it in her hand, but it wasn't an eSATA. It took 3 clerks 35 minutes to find it -- "in the back.")
The programming -- & the Prioritizer & other lists -- are still there. All that's missing is most of the To Do list -- because the upcoming programming info is still being repopulated.
But now what? What may have caused it? (E.g., anything that could be prevented -- like unplugging the FAP before a predictable/scheduled D* software download?)
Did I do the correct thing for a frozen picture? Or should the FAP be disconnected before hitting the reset? Or what?
Will the programming still be on the FAP?
Will the upcoming programming info be missing on the FAP, requiring looking online for any info -- & scheduling everything by Manual Record -- for the next 24 hours?
What's the safest sequence to follow at this point? Disconnect the FAP & then reconnect as when connecting for the first time?
Thanks very much!
Lord Vader
12-18-07, 09:58 AM
It sounds like your external drive was reformatted when your system reboots. This has been known to happen to people. When it reformats it, it wipes the drive, thereby deleting all your recordings.
That has never happened to me. Pains me to disagree with your Lordship. That freezing up problem might just indicate a bad DVR.
Hit me. I could use a good chuckle.
Rich
It sounds like your external drive was reformatted when your system reboots. This has been known to happen to people. When it reformats it, it wipes the drive, thereby deleting all your recordings.
All those "steps" are unnecessary. All you have to do is hook up everything but the HR20. After everything else is hooked up and powered up, plug in the HR20.
Does the light on the FAP come on instantly without the HR20 plugged in? It should not come on until the 20 is plugged in and the FAP gets a chance to recognize it.
That freeze up would scare me into believing you have a problem with the 20. I have installed a lot of FAPs for myself and other people and have never had a problem with the FAP itself. Usually, if the 20 is working correctly on the internal HD, and doesn't recognize the FAP, the jumper cord is bad. But from your posts, I would suspect the DVR. If you want some phone help send me a PM and I will give you my phone numbers. Be glad to help.
Rich
Everything seems to have been lost from the FAP external drive!
After posting (below) I tried the usual setup procedure:
1. Disconnected the power from the HR20 & the FAP 750, then disconnected the cable from both.
2. Waited 5 minutes.
3. Plugged in & turned on the eSATA.
4. Waited 5 minutes.
5. Connected the cable to the eSATA & then the HR20.
6. Plugged in the HR20.
It sounds like your external drive was reformatted when your system reboots. This has been known to happen to people. When it reformats it, it wipes the drive, thereby deleting all your recordings.
Yes, thanks, that's certainly what it seemed like. But, which reboot? Any reboot, or just the wrong kind, or at the wrong time?
Is there a way -- through a different sequence, e.g., rebooting without the external drive connected -- to avoid this?
Does the setup recommended at the start of the thread only work, safely, for the initial installation? If it might result in reformatting, can warnings be placed to this effect?
If involuntary reformatting is possible, users might want to access/transfer the data beforehand to another drive, for example. Can the data be saved, either before or after the playlist goes blank -- assuming the drive hasn't actually been reformatted?
Lord Vader
12-18-07, 02:45 PM
Freezing up is one thing, but if he boots up normally then sees that his eSATA drive has no more recordings on it, and troubleshooting it does nothing to fix the problem, then that is when it has reformatted itself. This has happened to many people here.
Freezing up is one thing, but if he boots up normally then sees that his eSATA drive has no more recordings on it, and troubleshooting it does nothing to fix the problem, then that is when it has reformatted itself. This has happened to many people here.
Yes, this definately is possible as it has happened to me. Not for many months, but it wiped my HD recording of the Doobie Brothers concert (among other things) and I was one unhappy camper.
Freezing up is one thing, but if he boots up normally then sees that his eSATA drive has no more recordings on it, and troubleshooting it does nothing to fix the problem, then that is when it has reformatted itself. This has happened to many people here.
Sorry, I'm not sure what "boots up normally" means -- Simply pressing the reset button (which I first did), or the normal boot up done when adding, or trying to revert to, the eSATA FAP? The quick boot up did not bring up the eSATA.
The picture had frozen. (This happens all the time on the R10 & R15 from D*, btw. Does it happen less on HR20's, indicating a bad one?).
I don't remember the HR20 freezing before; I've had it for 2 months. The FAP had been in use for 6 weeks.
When I rebooted normally, just with the reset button, the internal drive contents appeared for the first time in 6 weeks.
When I rebooted by unplugging & replugging the cables & current, the FAP contents appeared -- empty.
Freezing up is one thing, but if he boots up normally then sees that his eSATA drive has no more recordings on it, and troubleshooting it does nothing to fix the problem, then that is when it has reformatted itself. This has happened to many people here.
I gave him my phone number. I'll talk to him and see what I can figure out.
As I have said before, I have never had a problem with an FAP. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Don't see why the FAP would be reformatted either. But just because it has never happened to me, that doesn't mean it's impossible. I realize that, and, believe me, nobody on the face of this good Earth understands better than I do just how dopey I can be at times. When someone disagrees with me and makes a good argument, I usually think I am wrong. That is a weakness I admit to.
Let me talk to him and see if together we can clear up his problem. Easier on a phone than the forum. Too many conflicting opinions. I'll post on this thread.
Where's the link? I was looking forward to that. Disappointed, I am.
Rich
How are you starting the whole thing up? This is what works for me:
1- remove dvr power cord on back
2- plug external hd power pack in and connect to enclosure
3- connect esata data cable to external hd
4- connect esata data cable to dvr
5- replace dvr power cord on back
It should then boot-up on external hd..mine does
Hi,
How do I format the damn thing? I have a WD 'MY BOOK' 1 TB and it came without any info other than a diagram. Do I need to format the drive on my PC first? If so, how exactly do I do that? Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Lord Vader
12-22-07, 06:05 PM
No need to format the drive. Just connect and boot properly and you'll be good to go.
No need to format the drive. Just connect and boot properly and you'll be good to go.
Thanks for the rapid reply. What exactly does 'boot properly' mean. I disconnected the power to the DVR, plugged the power cord for the drive into the wall, connected one end of the eSata cable into the drive, plugged the other end of the eSata cable into the DVR and reconnected the DVR power. The DVR boot-up sequence began but at the point where you would see see the DVR PLUS screen, the DVR began the re-boot sequence sgain. It did this over and over until I pulled the WD cable and powered off the DVR. I then powered the DVR back on and the recorder booted up normally using the internal drive. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks
Lord Vader
12-22-07, 06:36 PM
There are step-by-step instructions in this thread on how to connect everything in sequence, reboot, etc. Make sure you're following those.
Sirshagg
12-22-07, 07:17 PM
Hi,
How do I format the damn thing? I have a WD 'MY BOOK' 1 TB and it came without any info other than a diagram. Do I need to format the drive on my PC first? If so, how exactly do I do that? Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
I believe that I've seena few threads stating that the WD My Book drives will not work with DVR's.
Lord Vader
12-22-07, 07:26 PM
That's a good point I failed to notice, probably because I've never dealt with such WD drives. The OP should seach this thread for more info re. that.
Lord Vader
12-22-07, 07:31 PM
Hi,
How do I format the damn thing? I have a WD 'MY BOOK' 1 TB and it came without any info other than a diagram. Do I need to format the drive on my PC first? If so, how exactly do I do that? Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Meller, I should have paid closer attention to the fact that your drive is a WD My Book one. As the above poster mentioned, they're reputed to not work with DVRs. More info...
here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1255918&highlight=WD+my+book#post1255918)
And here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1275324&highlight=WD+my+book#post1275324)
And here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1305810&highlight=WD+my+book#post1305810)
And finally here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1311703&highlight=WD+my+book#post1311703)
There are step-by-step instructions in this thread on how to connect everything in sequence, reboot, etc. Make sure you're following those.
Thanks for your help...........
Lord Vader
12-22-07, 08:47 PM
You're welcome, but remember, if you do, in fact, have the WD My Book drive, those directions are moot because the My Book drives appear not to work with DVRs.
You're welcome, but remember, if you do, in fact, have the WD My Book drive, those directions are moot because the My Book drives appear not to work with DVRs.
Those My Books seem to be going for real cheap lately. I wonder if anyone has gotten one to work by pulling the drive and using it in a different enclosure?
Although after the recent experience I had with WD's tech support I won't be buying their drives any more.
Hi,
How do I format the damn thing? I have a WD 'MY BOOK' 1 TB and it came without any info other than a diagram. Do I need to format the drive on my PC first? If so, how exactly do I do that? Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
That will not work on a DVR per the manufacturer. If you need more info, PM me and I will give you my phone number and 'splain.
Rich
Meller, I should have paid closer attention to the fact that your drive is a WD My Book one. As the above poster mentioned, they're reputed to not work with DVRs. More info...
here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1255918&highlight=WD+my+book#post1255918)
And here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1275324&highlight=WD+my+book#post1275324)
And here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1305810&highlight=WD+my+book#post1305810)
And finally here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1311703&highlight=WD+my+book#post1311703)
Your Lordship, I am honored that you chose my post first.
Rich
Lord Vader
12-23-07, 12:32 PM
As you should be.
aleicgrant
12-27-07, 05:26 PM
just wanted to check in as its been sometime to say things are still humming along. I have about 35 HD movies recorded so far and still have more than 70% space left.
the enclosure and 2tb of space were the best buy I have ever made and all for under $600 :)
At wits end. I have an external eSATA array. It's been working great for a couple yrs now well maybe a year and a half. I think the power failure got the best of me. The array is fine based upon the info on the LCD display. The DVR is ok (boots fine without the array attached). However with the array attached it will not clear step 1 of the Sat set up. I do see drive activity on the array as it is coming up so that should work. I rolled back CE build so I am now running current production release. In comparing to using internal storage, using the array I don't get the "cylon eye" LED movement of the HD resolution indicator. It seems to move once and that's it. With the internal it seems to move back and forth a couple times before jumping to step 2 (the % complete progress bar).
I am assuming for some reason it does not recognize the array. So short of the power cycling and recabling I have already done any diagnostics I can preform? It has CLEARLY not erased fully the array (thank god), or I would have a 3.5 TB at 100% free. I am going to pick up a new eSATA cable (cheap thing to try).
Beyond that any suggestions?? Also what about hitching it up to my laptop (Mac OS X Leopard, with an eSATA card). I know I can keep the disk from being mounted but if I remember the disk is formated EXT3 right? Linux. I am actually an Engineer here at Apple. I can also boot a Windows box (actually a mac with bootcamp) to XP and should have drivers for my eSATA card. I would prefer NOT to try this as there is certainly a chance that connecting to another machine (mainly Win) will write to the disk and cause the disk to be reformatted.
Finally and lastly as I have an entire season of TV I haven't had time to watch on the thing (3.5TB almost full) how does one FORCE a reformat of the disk. I know it SHOULD be automatic, and was when I first hooked it up up over 2 yrs ago.
Thanks again for all the help, and I can provide my phone number if that would help I really am at witts end here and could use any help folks might have. Up till this point the 2 have been a great solution! And any help I can offer others just let me know.....
Thanks in Advance.....
TOm
oenophile
01-05-08, 01:21 PM
At wits end. ***I am assuming for some reason it does not recognize the array. So short of the power cycling and recabling I have already done any diagnostics I can preform? ***Also what about hitching it up to my laptop (Mac OS X Leopard, with an eSATA card). I know I can keep the disk from being mounted but if I remember the disk is formated EXT3 right? Linux. I am actually an Engineer here at Apple. I can also boot a Windows box (actually a mac with bootcamp) to XP and should have drivers for my eSATA card. I would prefer NOT to try this as there is certainly a chance that connecting to another machine (mainly Win) will write to the disk and cause the disk to be reformatted. Finally and lastly as I have an entire season of TV I haven't had time to watch on the thing (3.5TB almost full) how does one FORCE a reformat of the disk. I know it SHOULD be automatic, and was when I first hooked it up up over 2 yrs ago.
So, I'm not going to be as much help as I would like (and I'm sure I'll get some details wrong below); but I feel for you so here are a few brainstorming ideas--which I hope others chime in on to confirm/help:
1) go to amazon or newegg (a shop with a return policy) and buy a new array & drives -- try them on the box. If they work, then you know its your array, not the HR20. If they don't....HR20 problem. (And return them if you figure out it is the HR20 and not your array...) If it is the HR20 problem, I think you're screwed, b/c I think a new HR20 means it'll erase your array (right?).
If it is your array....
2) try to see what diagnostics your hard drive manufacturer has and whether you can boot it on Linux....this is, as you say, risky, but less risky if you can boot it on Linux --> i.e. get an open source ISO (i.e. a CD) and boot from a CD into Linux, then run the diagnostics in linux. it isn't as hard as you might think (this is how TiVo hackers gain access to TiVo drives....see there for guidance). (You'll have to make sure you have drivers to load an eSATA array drive, I think...not sure....maybe you can use a conversion cable to SATA).
3) If all else fails, the best option to try to "fix" a bad set of hard drives is Spinrite 6 from Gibson Research. http://www.grc.com/default.htm It is supposed to support *all* file systems (including Linux, etc.; effectively operating system independent) and it runs using its own low-level operating system (so you don't boot into windows). I do not know whether it works with an eSATA RAID array (that one's a trick; see here http://www.grc.com/sr/kb/sata.htm and the RAID entry in the FAQ here http://www.grc.com/sr/faq.htm). I do know that it has saved many folks's bacon over the years.
Please post back with what you try and what works doesn't. I have a sinking feeling eventually my eSATA array will die sometime soon....and may be in your shoes. Good luck!
[Oh, and I *KNOW* you know this; but if you have an eSATA RAID 0 array (which it sounds like you do) if either drive fails they both fail. You really should use a UPS with a RAID 0 array...frankly a UPS should be used with the HR20/21 no matter what.....but especially with a RAID 0 array.]
More than likely, the data on the array has been corrupted and isn't recognized. Formatting it on a computer will more than likely restore use of the RAID and, obviously, wipe out all recorded programming.
I'm pretty sure there have been a few dozen mentions of using UPS systems, haven't there?
Actually the array looks good from the embeded web server and LCD interface. The Array is NOT RAID 0. I am not that risky :) It's actually RAID5 + 1 HS. So I am really actually very conservative. All dives look good and the Vol looks good again from the Array interface.
I will TRY to see if I can get Linux and my sata card to work but have VERY little likelihood of that succeeding on my MacBook Pro.... that's the only express card/eSATA interface computer.
I am going to first get a new cable (seems unlikely but cheap soln to test as I mentioned). I may also buy a cheap esata disk to connect and test with. I EXPECT this to work.
My expected problem is likely with the data on the array... Any way to force the DVR to FSCK the disk/array? Some secret command/keypress?
oenophile
01-05-08, 02:02 PM
Actually the array looks good from the embeded web server and LCD interface. The Array is NOT RAID 0. I am not that risky :) It's actually RAID5 + 1 HS. So I am really actually very conservative. All dives look good and the Vol looks good again from the Array interface.So if that's the case you either have a complete array (2+ drive) failure or a data writing failure, right? If it is a data writing failure, I think, again, you're screwed. (No possibility to fix HR20 data, right?) If it is a drive failure, you may be able to recover the drives using a utility like spinrite?
I will TRY to see if I can get Linux and my sata card to work but have VERY little likelihood of that succeeding on my MacBook Pro.... that's the only express card/eSATA interface computer.What about borrowing a friend's PC?
I am going to first get a new cable (seems unlikely but cheap soln to test as I mentioned).Yeah, that has low proabability of success but cheap. I may also buy a cheap esata disk to connect and test with. I EXPECT this to work.I would. You can always return it.
My expected problem is likely with the data on the array... Any way to force the DVR to FSCK the disk/array? Some secret command/keypress?That would be wonderful if so; but you can't even get into the HR20 with the drive mounted, right? It never boots? or?
Correct, RAID volume shows as good. No failure there (HS is still not in use). I agree it must be data corruption (thus me comment about any way to get DVR to FSCK the disk(logical)/volume)....
I don't have access to any other machine that has eSATA access. Can I also get confirmation that the disk is in EXT3 format? There was a fs plug in for Mac OS X 10.3 but doesn't work on anything else That would have been my best solution as I could use my eSAT card on my mac even if I get a di with it's drivers.....
My other choice is what can I do if I boot from XP. I have bootcamp installed here and have windows drivers for the card so I should be able to do anything that Windows can do/install to look at the disk.
I have don't plenty of TiVo hacking in days of old with Live disks but I don't have a Live disk that will work with any machine I can really use so I unfortunately can't go that route. Even if I do find a distro that will work on my MacBook Pro I doubt that I will get the express card eSATA card to work.... 2 unknowns there.
So in general it looks like the best chance it to pretend I just have a normal PC and look for info on that config.
Sorry to make this so difficult but that data that's on there is really important (that's the reason I went raid 5 + HS).
I have had the power go out before and no problems in the past, so really surprised at this....
Don't suppose anyone else lives in the Bay Area, has a setup and a clue on how to do disk recover (other than 'man fsck'), I could look up, and buy a couple beers to let me on their Linux box? :) Doesn't hurt to ask, right :)
Thanks again..... Tom
P Smith
01-05-08, 03:18 PM
Tom, try to read the thread ("http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=100894) or grab your gears and a bottle of Cognac and take 101 to south ;).
Tom, try to read the thread ("http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=100894) or grab your gears and a bottle of Cognac and take 101 to south ;).
So if I my initial guess may be correct? It may be possible to connect another external to the the DVR and copy the data from the other slices to the corrupted HD leaving the media intact???
If true then I assume I will lose other thing (programing data, etc) I assume. A pain but an acceptable trade off to keep the content. (I had 50 season passes).
So if that's the case I am back to my original problem of not having an appropriate setup. Looks like I need a linux box to a few more hints to make this work. Again not looking to migrate/steal/circumvent/etc and media protections. Just "uncorrupt" a disk on the machine I have.....
I bought another HD and some cables so I should this am be able to confirm that all those work and I just need to "uncorrupt" the data on my eSATA array. I will review the posting cited again to see if there is a description of the file system and disk layout before I ask further questions.
Anyone live in the Bay with a clue and an interest in alcohol or other forms of bribery :)
Thanks for any help you can offer......
bnash972
01-06-08, 04:43 PM
Can anyone who bought the Seagate Freeagent Pro tell me the exact steps they used to get it to work? I got a HR20-100 the other day and a Freeagent Pro from Fry's. I'm been using the HR20 for a couple of days and today tried to get the ext HD attached. I have an esata to esata cable from monoprice. I've tried about a half dozen times with different sequences of attaching things but nothing. Is the Seagate orange light supposed to flash when the hard drive is in use, because right now it stays constant orange.
The way I've tried that I thought should have gotten it to work was:
Power off HR20 and then unplug it. Wait a couple of minutes. Plug in the Freeagent and then press the power on button on the Freeagent. Then plug the esata cable first into the Freeagent and then the HR20. Then plug in the HR 20 and wait for it to boot. Everytime I do that I end up back using the internal HD will all my old recordings present.
P.S. I don't know where to check what software version my box is running. It updated the software since I hooked it up, but I don't know the version.
Thanks
This might not help strangelove, but I wanted to post this because I’ve seen a few others with this same problem…myself included. After a dozen reboots and an hour reading in here it turned out to be a simple hardware issue.
I looked through the top of the vents in the top of my HR 20 and could see the wire going from the circuit board to the eSATA jack. I could clearly see that the plug was not fully secured to the board. I could see the copper connections exposed. Using a VERY small screw driver (something like you would use to repair eye glasses) I was able to push the top of the wires down and secure the connection.
My HR20 – 700 is now running a Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB with a PNY cable from BestBuy.
Good Luck and Happy Recording!
BTW...I would not recommend cracking the unit open. There is a safety seal on the back that will void and warranty if broken.
prefabsprouter
01-07-08, 11:30 AM
I had two HR21s installed last week which replaced two Tivos HR10-250. Even though I thought I would never be able to part with my Tivos, I have to say I am quite impressed with the HR21s.
So after reading this forum, I went about upgrading the capacity. I purchased a WD Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB and the Antec MX-1 enclosure. I installed it, and closely following the instructions on this forum, I turned off the HR21 & the hard drive, turned on the hard drive, waited 20 seconds, connected the eSata cable to the HR21, turned on the HR21, waited a few minutes, and.... nothing!!!
The playlist was the same as before... the HR21 was still reading from its internal hard drive. It's as if the new external hard drive was not connected to the DVR. I retried the procedure several times to no avail.
What gives??? Any ideas why this would be happening? Just to make sure the hard drive was working, I plugged it in to my Mac, and the Mac recognized it, so the drive is working. Please help!!!
That was impressive! I have had a couple two three HR20s that would not work with an eSATA. I guess I should have checked the plug out. What does the plug look like, a fan plug?
This might not help strangelove, but I wanted to post this because I’ve seen a few others with this same problem…myself included. After a dozen reboots and an hour reading in here it turned out to be a simple hardware issue.
I looked through the top of the vents in the top of my HR 20 and could see the wire going from the circuit board to the eSATA jack. I could clearly see that the plug was not fully secured to the board. I could see the copper connections exposed. Using a VERY small screw driver (something like you would use to repair eye glasses) I was able to push the top of the wires down and secure the connection.
My HR20 – 700 is now running a Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750GB with a PNY cable from BestBuy.
Good Luck and Happy Recording!
BTW...I would not recommend cracking the unit open. There is a safety seal on the back that will void and warranty if broken.
bnash972
01-07-08, 08:29 PM
That was impressive! I have had a couple two three HR20s that would not work with an eSATA. I guess I should have checked the plug out. What does the plug look like, a fan plug?
It's VERY easy to spot on my HR20-700. Look where the eSATA plug is on the back. Grab a flashlight and look though the heat vents on the top. You should be able to see a wide flat wire about 3" long going from that jack location to the circuit board. On my unit its a red wire with a black female connector on the end. The connector had a big enough lip to easily push down with a very small screw drive. It might be a different color based on when/where the unit was assembled.
In my case I it was clearly loose. I could see copper connectors...probably about .75MM of space.
Tahoe41
01-07-08, 08:45 PM
I had two HR21s installed last week which replaced two Tivos HR10-250. Even though I thought I would never be able to part with my Tivos, I have to say I am quite impressed with the HR21s.
So after reading this forum, I went about upgrading the capacity. I purchased a WD Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB and the Antec MX-1 enclosure. I installed it, and closely following the instructions on this forum, I turned off the HR21 & the hard drive, turned on the hard drive, waited 20 seconds, connected the eSata cable to the HR21, turned on the HR21, waited a few minutes, and.... nothing!!!
The playlist was the same as before... the HR21 was still reading from its internal hard drive. It's as if the new external hard drive was not connected to the DVR. I retried the procedure several times to no avail.
What gives??? Any ideas why this would be happening? Just to make sure the hard drive was working, I plugged it in to my Mac, and the Mac recognized it, so the drive is working. Please help!!!
I would be very interested to know what the solution may be as well as I have ordered the exact same set-up and expect the WD drive later this week.
It's VERY easy to spot on my HR20-700. Look where the eSATA plug is on the back. Grab a flashlight and look though the heat vents on the top. You should be able to see a wide flat wire about 3" long going from that jack location to the circuit board. On my unit its a red wire with a black female connector on the end. The connector had a big enough lip to easily push down with a very small screw drive. It might be a different color based on when/where the unit was assembled.
In my case I it was clearly loose. I could see copper connectors...probably about .75MM of space.
Got it. Thanx again.
Rich
prefabsprouter
01-08-08, 06:05 PM
I got the hard drive working with my HR21...!!!! What was the problem?? A faulty eSata cable!!!
After countless hours of web research, postings on different forums, innumerable resets and much more, the problem turned out to be a bad cable! (the one that came with the Antec MX-1 enclosure).
This just goes to show that sometimes the right answer is the simplest, most obvious one.
Hopefully this thread with my experience will help a future user in trouble find the answer much more quickly than I did.
Thank you to all of you who replied to my cries of help!
gowaukee
01-13-08, 02:15 PM
I have seen the posts that say the WD My Books will not work with esata. Is it all Western Digital drives, or just their My Books?:confused:
freshone
01-14-08, 11:58 AM
I have had 2 WD 500's in my Thecus (RAID 0) for almost a year...
Not a single issue...(knock wood!!)
flabingo
01-14-08, 12:17 PM
I need advice. I have two hr-20-700 and I just received a calvery external caxe series 1 tb external drive and an antec-mx-1 enclosure which I discovered that I don't need with the external drive. Should I return the external drive and get another drive or keep the external drive and return the enclosure. If I return the drive which drive do you suggest?
ragbirch
01-14-08, 05:54 PM
I have had 2 WD 500's in my Thecus (RAID 0) for almost a year...
Not a single issue...(knock wood!!)
I had the same setup for about 14 months. Craped out about 2 months ago. I broke down bought the 750 seagate that is standard equip for the hr20 and replaced the original drive. Alot less problems. Good luck !
freshone
01-15-08, 11:47 AM
Dam! So what you're saying is that I got about 2 months left!! LOL!!
Thanks for the heads up!
spartanstew
01-18-08, 12:07 AM
Question I wasn't sure how to search for:
I have a 1TB eSATA hooked up to an HR20 in my living room. It's been our main unit. However, I'm going to be switching it with the HR21 that's been in the Home Theater. I read something about the eSATA being married to the receiver.
Does this mean I can't just unplug the eSATA from the HR20 and plug it into the HR21. Will that not work? And if it will work, does that mean all the Series and recordings will transfer over as well.
edit: Nevermind, I think I found the answer: I can use it on the HR21, but any previously recorded programs (from the HR20) will not play. Correct?
edit: Nevermind, I think I found the answer: I can use it on the HR21, but any previously recorded programs (from the HR20) will not play. Correct?Not only will the content not play, but it will also render the occupied space unusable on the HR21 unless you reformat it. I suppose it is also possible that the HR21 will simply format the drive when it sees it.
spartanstew
01-18-08, 07:37 PM
Not only will the content not play, but it will also render the occupied space unusable on the HR21 unless you reformat it. I suppose it is also possible that the HR21 will simply format the drive when it sees it.
So, as long as I delete any unwatched shows from the drive first, I'd be fine either way, correct?
writenick
01-18-08, 07:44 PM
Just talked to a Directv tech who advised me to wait until March to upgrade to DVR because new HR-21 will be available with larger hard drive. The other major advance is that the HDMI will be fiber optic so longer cables can be used in home theater set-ups. It seems the HDMI cables available now have length restrictions for optimal reception.
oenophile
01-18-08, 08:02 PM
Just talked to a Directv tech who advised me to wait until March to upgrade to DVR because new HR-21 will be available with larger hard drive. The other major advance is that the HDMI will be fiber optic so longer cables can be used in home theater set-ups. It seems the HDMI cables available now have length restrictions for optimal reception.
I haven't heard either of these two things (and I'm not even sure the HDMI comment makes any sense). I'm certain I could be wrong, but I strongly suspect misinformation (at least about the HDMI).
spartanstew
01-18-08, 08:58 PM
Just talked to a Directv tech who advised me to wait until March to upgrade to DVR because new HR-21 will be available with larger hard drive. The other major advance is that the HDMI will be fiber optic so longer cables can be used in home theater set-ups. It seems the HDMI cables available now have length restrictions for optimal reception.
That's the HR21 Pro. Manufactured by Samsung and available in February or March. It will only be available through high end specialty shops and will have a price of approximately $600.
Resq911
01-19-08, 03:21 PM
I know I have seen the documents that explains the process to add an eSATA external drive but for the life of me I can not find it. Could someone point me in the correct direction.
P Smith
01-19-08, 03:27 PM
Perhaps read the thread from start will help you find the answer ?
I know I have seen the documents that explains the process to add an eSATA external drive but for the life of me I can not find it. Could someone point me in the correct direction.
Unplug your DVR. Leave it unplugged. Hook up everything else, including powering up your eSATA. Plug in the DVR. The eSATA should take over. Simple.
Rich
CT_Wiebe
01-21-08, 02:27 PM
I got the hard drive working with my HR21...!!!! What was the problem?? A faulty eSata cable!!!
After countless hours of web research, postings on different forums, innumerable resets and much more, the problem turned out to be a bad cable! (the one that came with the Antec MX-1 enclosure).
This just goes to show that sometimes the right answer is the simplest, most obvious one.
Hopefully this thread with my experience will help a future user in trouble find the answer much more quickly than I did.
Thank you to all of you who replied to my cries of help!I had that problem too. It turns out that the 2 ends of the eSATA cable supplied with the MX-1 are not identical. One end works in my HR20 and the other end doesn't. The difference is that one end has a little (1 or 2 mm) more plastic at the end (between the cable connector pins and the edge of the connector). It's just enough to prevent the cable from making a connection.
rsblaski
01-21-08, 03:05 PM
I had that problem too. It turns out that the 2 ends of the eSATA cable supplied with the MX-1 are not identical. One end works in my HR20 and the other end doesn't. The difference is that one end has a little (1 or 2 mm) more plastic at the end (between the cable connector pins and the edge of the connector). It's just enough to prevent the cable from making a connection.
This problem has been identified before. It has been suggested that trimming a little of the plastic/rubber will solve the problem.
I had that problem too. It turns out that the 2 ends of the eSATA cable supplied with the MX-1 are not identical. One end works in my HR20 and the other end doesn't. The difference is that one end has a little (1 or 2 mm) more plastic at the end (between the cable connector pins and the edge of the connector). It's just enough to prevent the cable from making a connection.
I got a PM the other day in reply to a question about the jumper cable. I was told that he was using an eSATA to SATA jumper cable. He found this info in the instructions that came with the cable(?).
Apparently there are some eSATA to eSATA jumper cables and some SATA to eSATA cables out there.
All mine are the same, eSATA to eSATA. Makes no difference which end you put in where. And there are no markings on my jumper cables or his (purchased from Fry's). Maybe that little piece of soft plastic makes the difference. A lot of people reported that trimming the end of the jumper cable solved their problems.
Rich
CT_Wiebe
01-21-08, 03:24 PM
In my case, I didn't have to trim it. I just reversed the cable. So far I haven't had any other problems with the installation. The WD10EACS in the MX-1 (laying flat) is running very cool and is extremely quiet. I'm going to buy another one for archival purposes.
That 1TB of HDD is great - even recording both NFL Divisional playoff games (OTA - mpeg2) only used up 3% of the drive space. I was nice, after I found out that I could record an OTA channel at the same time my SO was watching her D* programs. My next step is to get the installer out here to add a third cable from the dish for the Sat2 connection on my HR20-700.
rich584 -- It should be an eSATA cable with the same connections on each end (the SATA cables are for internal computer connections, only, and won't fit in the eSATA connectors). I got a SATA one, and it didn't fit at either end.
gdavisloop
01-24-08, 02:10 AM
Has anyone tried just replacing the internal HR20 hard drive with a new SATA drive? What happens?
thanks--
--Gary
rsblaski
01-24-08, 04:06 PM
Has anyone tried just replacing the internal HR20 hard drive with a new SATA drive? What happens?
thanks--
--Gary
There are threads addressing this, but in summary: Install the new drive and then the hr20 formats the new drive and you're in business. However, there are contract issues involved, but it is up to you to decide if you want to deal with that.
LlamaLarry
01-24-08, 04:50 PM
Oh, I did not know that. I figured I would have to use an external enclosure to format the new drive and then I could swap it out for internal.
I just got an email from newegg for a WD 750GB for $150...
rich584 -- It should be an eSATA cable with the same connections on each end (the SATA cables are for internal computer connections, only, and won't fit in the eSATA connectors). I got a SATA one, and it didn't fit at either end.
I didn't see the jumper cable in question. I am relying on what I was told. I just got a Cavalry eSATA today that came with a cable and like all my other cables is marked eSATA on both ends.
But the eSATA to SATA cable also makes sense because a lot of people have posted that they had to trim one end a tad. I bet all they had to do was reverse it. If I recall correctly, a lot of those cables were bought at BB or CC or Fry's, etc.
Rich
cartrivision
01-25-08, 06:51 PM
Has anyone tried just replacing the internal HR20 hard drive with a new SATA drive? What happens?
thanks--
--Gary
That's what I did. I took out the 320GB disk, replaced it with a blank WD 750GB disk, powered back up, and it was good to go.
I now have the 320BG disk in an external eSATA enclosure, and have hooked it back up to the HR20’s external eSATA port a couple of times to record some things that I wanted to keep for a long time but didn't want to take up space on my primary disk.
If I ever have to send the HR20 back to DirecTV, I'll take my 750GB disk out, and put the 320GB back into the HR20, and ship it.
rahlquist
01-25-08, 09:21 PM
That's what I did. I took out the 320GB disk, replaced it with a blank WD 750GB disk, powered back up, and it was good to go.
Ok forgive me for being ignorant of the technology of the HR(handt ever thought about hacking it since its leased). Isnt the DVR OS on the internal drive?
Lord Vader
01-25-08, 09:24 PM
No, it's on an internal chip.
I now have the 320BG disk in an external eSATA enclosure, and have hooked it back up to the HR20’s external eSATA port a couple of times to record some things that I wanted to keep for a long time but didn't want to take up space on my primary disk.Wouldn't it make more sense to put programs that you want to save on the drive that belongs to you? Then again, if the drive is truly married to the receiver, everything would be lost when you replaced the receiver...
My 750 DB35 with Antec enclosue failed me. All was fine for 5 months, then the unit froze up. Rebooted, and all was erased on the external drive. Thought it wasn't seeing the drive, but after numerous rebooting with and w/o the external drive, it's erased (was 40% full). Have set up the drive again, does anyone know if I replace the internal with the 750GB drive, will it get re-formated and lose the programming?
No, it's on an internal chip.
So, Your Lordship, what are they saving the 100 MEGs of space for?
Here's what I don't understand: Why do I need a PC for VOD? These things are computers. Why do I need another computer? I could see running an ethernet wire to a cable modem, but why another whole computer? I begin to see more and more of the Dark Side in this.
Rich
Wouldn't it make more sense to put programs that you want to save on the drive that belongs to you? Then again, if the drive is truly married to the receiver, everything would be lost when you replaced the receiver...
I believe you have a "circular argument" there. Whatever happened to "circular arguments"? I remember getting dialog boxes on my computer about them, but that was awhile ago.
Rich
My 750 DB35 with Antec enclosue failed me. All was fine for 5 months, then the unit froze up. Rebooted, and all was erased on the external drive. Thought it wasn't seeing the drive, but after numerous rebooting with and w/o the external drive, it's erased (was 40% full). Have set up the drive again, does anyone know if I replace the internal with the 750GB drive, will it get re-formated and lose the programming?
Ah, a breath of fresh air. Your question is one that I have never seen before. At first I thought "of course". Pondered that for a few minutes and decided that I did not know. I trust you have a 21?
Rich
Lord Vader
01-26-08, 05:45 PM
So, Your Lordship, what are they saving the 100 MEGs of space for?
Showcases, ads, and other DirecTV junk.
sailermon
01-26-08, 05:52 PM
My 750 DB35 with Antec enclosue failed me. All was fine for 5 months, then the unit froze up. Rebooted, and all was erased on the external drive. Thought it wasn't seeing the drive, but after numerous rebooting with and w/o the external drive, it's erased (was 40% full). Have set up the drive again, does anyone know if I replace the internal with the 750GB drive, will it get re-formated and lose the programming?
No. The HR2x doesn't care whether the drive is external or internal. It just looks for the drive connected externally or internally in that order. If a drive is initially married/formated as eSATA it will not be reformatted if you install it inside the same HR2x.
Showcases, ads, and other DirecTV junk.
Well that kind of sooks.
Rich
No. The HR2x doesn't care whether the drive is external or internal. It just looks for the drive connected externally or internally in that order. If a drive is initially married/formated as eSATA it will not be reformatted if you install it inside the same HR2x.
That's where my pondering led me. But, have you actually done it? Logically, it would seem to be the correct opinion, but...
Rich
sailermon
01-27-08, 03:38 PM
That's where my pondering led me. But, have you actually done it? Logically, it would seem to be the correct opinion, but...
Rich
I believe I read where someone actually did this on this forum. Try using search to see if you can find the post.
cartrivision
01-28-08, 12:42 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense to put programs that you want to save on the drive that belongs to you? Then again, if the drive is truly married to the receiver, everything would be lost when you replaced the receiver...
It doesn't matter. Both disks contain nothing but unwatchable bits if the DVR that they were recorded with fails or has to be swaped for a different DVR for some other reason.
cartrivision
01-28-08, 12:47 AM
That's where my pondering led me. But, have you actually done it? Logically, it would seem to be the correct opinion, but...
Rich
I have put a drive that used to be internal into an eSATA enclosure and when I connected it to the eSATA port for the first time, nothing was erased or reformatted, and all the previous recordings on the disk were still playable.
P Smith
01-28-08, 11:09 AM
No. The HR2x doesn't care whether the drive is external or internal. It just looks for the drive connected externally or internally in that order. If a drive is initially married/formated as eSATA it will not be reformatted if you install it inside the same HR2x.
It is formatted as Linux EXT3 with RT extension.
No such eSATA formatting exist in the world.
I'm sorry if I missed this simple bit of info but I read the first dozen pages and then the last 5 or 6.
If I hook up an external drive will I lose the programming that I have on my internal drive?
Also, if I was looking to keep something "forever"(like my favorite sports teams championship games?) would I be better off finding a different recording method? I'm basing this on the drives being married to their receivers. I'm not real tech savvy so I'm not sure if there are other ways to recored HD programming.
thanks for anyone's time that they take to answer
Lord Vader
01-28-08, 02:45 PM
No, your internal drive's recordings will remain the same. If you wish to permanently save your favorite team's recordings and never have to worry about it getting accidentally erased, then an external drive is the way to go. You could always disconnect said drive and store it. Then get another external one to use. I suggest this because SOME people have experienced inadvertent erasure of their eSATA drives, thereby wiping out everything that was on them.
I believe I read where someone actually did this on this forum. Try using search to see if you can find the post.
How you gonna search for that? Kills me to admit this, but I've read just about every post on this thread and I don't remember reading about it.
It would seem logical that you could take out a formatted eSATA HD and replace the infernal drive with it and not lose anything.
I really can't think of search parameters to do a search, can you?
Rich
I have put a drive that used to be internal into an eSATA enclosure and when I connected it to the eSATA port for the first time, nothing was erased or reformatted, and all the previous recordings on the disk were still playable.
Interesting, never considered that. Great idea. But, have you ever loaded up an eSATA and taken the HD out of it and replaced the infernal drive with it?
Rich.
cartrivision
01-28-08, 04:00 PM
Interesting, never considered that. Great idea. But, have you ever loaded up an eSATA and taken the HD out of it and replaced the infernal drive with it?
Rich.
Nope, never gone in that direction, but given that going from internal to eSATA works without losing anything, I would guess that going from eSATA to internal would also preserve the disk contents.
EDIT: I just happened to run accross this post...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1402877&postcount=21
where someone described going from eSATA to internal without losing any data.
Nope, never gone in that direction, but given that going from internal to eSATA works without losing anything, I would guess that going from eSATA to internal would also preserve the disk contents.
Does sound logical, doesn't it?
EDIT: I just happened to run accross this post...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1402877&postcount=21
where someone described going from eSATA to internal without losing any data.
Huh! That was posted on a thread I started. Wasn't looking for that info and it just blew by me. Thanx.
Rich
No, your internal drive's recordings will remain the same. If you wish to permanently save your favorite team's recordings and never have to worry about it getting accidentally erased, then an external drive is the way to go. You could always disconnect said drive and store it. Then get another external one to use. I suggest this because SOME people have experienced inadvertent erasure of their eSATA drives, thereby wiping out everything that was on them.
So if your disconnect the drive to save whats on it and then say you get a new dvr and hook up a new drive to that dvr how will you ever get to view the old drive if it will be reformatted if it is connected to the new dvr? I too would like to get an external drive to keep some programs forever but if the drive marries to the dvr it doesn't look like I will be able to do this. Or is there a way to save the recordings?
Lord Vader
02-09-08, 12:45 PM
Well, the recordings can be saved, but until someone discovers how to "unlock," so to speak, the recordings, it sounds like you're kind of stuck.
P Smith
02-09-08, 01:12 PM
I would say it could be done in Linux environment - pay attention to that thread where is described working method of expanding disks; if you desperate you could make file-to-file copies for backup/restore. Keeping 2nd and 3rd partitions in sync would help you.
Lord Vader
02-09-08, 01:22 PM
I'm not sure if one can get around the encryption, though. I'm not as technically adept at these things, although on my DirecTV/TIVO units I don't have any problems, but that's probably because they're modified to disable encryption, among other things. ;)
P Smith
02-09-08, 01:28 PM
Did I mention encryption ?
Just for BACKUP/RESTORE.
wilmofree
02-09-08, 03:01 PM
Does anyone know how long it takes to format the Seagate 750 after powering up the HR21 after hooking up the external drive? My HR21 is still showing the blue light circling around after about 45 minutes. I am using a SIIG CB-SA011 eSATA cable.
Lord Vader
02-09-08, 04:01 PM
Am I say something about encryption ?
God knows what language that is, for it's not English. :confused:
Does anyone know how long it takes to format the Seagate 750 after powering up the HR21 after hooking up the external drive? My HR21 is still showing the blue light circling around after about 45 minutes. I am using a SIIG CB-SA011 eSATA cable.
That eSATA will not work. You need a Cavalry. Here is a link:
Can't get link to work. Go to Costco.com and go to computers and then storage and you will see the Cavalry eSATA 750. That will work on the 21.
Don't even waste your time with the Seagate. Will not work. Will work with the 20s tho.
Rich
God knows what language that is, for it's not English. :confused:
Cyberbabble? :icon_kiff
I've had coherent conversations with him. If you press him, he has good info.
Rich
Somebody explain to me why that link I just tried to post from Costco.com didn't work. I did it just as I've done it so many times and it would not come up as a "link" on the post. Please 'splain. I have no idea.
Rich
Does anyone know how long it takes to format the Seagate 750 after powering up the HR21 after hooking up the external drive? My HR21 is still showing the blue light circling around after about 45 minutes. I am using a SIIG CB-SA011 eSATA cable.
Hope you can take the Seagate back. You won't need a jumper cable with the Cavalry, it comes with one. The SIIG cable you purchased sounds like the correct one and answers a question for me.
Rich
CT_Wiebe
02-10-08, 04:54 PM
Somebody explain to me why that link I just tried to post from Costco.com didn't work. I did it just as I've done it so many times and it would not come up as a "link" on the post. Please 'splain. I have no idea.
RichHere's the Costco link:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11174924&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|84|31022|31023&N=4013468&Mo=20&pos=1&No=9&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=31023&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC10626-Cat31022&topnav=.
If it doesn't show up, it's because the URL is way too long.
EDIT -- Yup, too long - you have to paste the 3 lines together (no spaces) in order to get the whole link.
------
The Calvary one from newegg is $20 cheaper:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010150414+50010712+131021357&name=400GB+-+750GB.
I personally would opt for the 1TB version, since it costs less per GB. I got the WD10EACS and the Antec MX-1 case, It's more expensive, but no regrets (cool & quiet).
If it doesn't show up, it's because the URL is way too long.
EDIT -- Yup, too long - you have to paste the 3 lines together (no spaces) in order to get the whole link.
Gotcha. Thanx for clearing that up. First time that happened to me. Nothing is simple, is it?
Rich
MountainMan10
02-11-08, 06:07 PM
I just plugged in a WD 1TB drive in an Antec MX-1 enclosure. Booted right up. Took no longer than a normal restart. It is up an running. Thanks to every one that suggested the Antec. I have an HR21-700.
Get the Seagate Free Agent Pro 750 Gig eSATA. They work great.
I have a HR-21 and just bought a FreeAgent Pro 1TB. I turned off the power, unplugged the power cable from the HR-21. I plugged in the power adapter for the FreeAgent Pro and connected the eSATA cable to both, the HR-21 and the FreeAgent Pro. I reconnected the power cable to the HR-21 and powered up. It does not see the external hard drive. It still uses the internal hard drive.
What am I doing wrong???
pjo1966
02-12-08, 03:17 PM
I have a HR-21 and just bought a FreeAgent Pro 1TB. I turned off the power, unplugged the power cable from the HR-21. I plugged in the power adapter for the FreeAgent Pro and connected the eSATA cable to both, the HR-21 and the FreeAgent Pro. I reconnected the power cable to the HR-21 and powered up. It does not see the external hard drive. It still uses the internal hard drive.
What am I doing wrong???
HR21 does not work w/ FreeAgent Pro drives.
HR21 does not work w/ FreeAgent Pro drives.
What works best with the HR-21???
pjo1966
02-12-08, 03:51 PM
What works best with the HR-21???
Check the last page or two here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=109690) for suggestions.
I have a HR-21 and just bought a FreeAgent Pro 1TB. I turned off the power, unplugged the power cable from the HR-21. I plugged in the power adapter for the FreeAgent Pro and connected the eSATA cable to both, the HR-21 and the FreeAgent Pro. I reconnected the power cable to the HR-21 and powered up. It does not see the external hard drive. It still uses the internal hard drive.
What am I doing wrong???
The 21s do not work with the Seagate FAP. I am using a Cavalry with mine. Works fine. The FAPs work fine with the 20s. Don't know why. Just know what works with what.
Rich
I have been reading some on this topic and if I understand right, all I have to do is turn off the HR-21 turn on the external drive and connect to HR-21 and then power up the HR-21. Is there any technical things I have to do to activate it or is it this simple. Also I see the Calvary drive seems to work well with the HR-21's as opposed to some of the others.
Also, besides the cost savings, is this better to do than a weakness internal drive upgrade? As reliable, etc....
Thanks
I have been reading some on this topic and if I understand right, all I have to do is turn off the HR-21 turn on the external drive and connect to HR-21 and then power up the HR-21.
Connect the jumper cable before you turn on the eSATA. Aside from that, you are correct. The 21 is the last thing to be powered up. Make EVERY other connection before powering up the eSATA and then power up the 21.
Is there any technical things I have to do to activate it or is it this simple.
Just follow that instructions above.
Also I see the Calvary drive seems to work well with the HR-21's as opposed to some of the others.
The Cavalry works with the 21 perfectly.
Also, besides the cost savings, is this better to do than a weakness internal drive upgrade? As reliable, etc....
Yep. No need for Weaknees at all. The 21 will program the eSATA. And you will save mucho dinero. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions or problems.
Rich
Embedded_Journalist
03-04-08, 01:51 AM
[QUOTE=Earl Bonovich;676290]A request.... if you connect an eSATA device... please post your results here...
List the make/model/size of your eSATA device.
Especially if you built it your self (purchased an enclosure, and add a drive).
I just got my new WD 750G SATA2 7200rpm 16MB Cache OEM Caviar HD
WD #7500AAKS from Newegg today. ($154.99) and I popped it into a external enclosure by Kingwin, mod. #Z1-35EU-BL (USB2.0 and eSATA) that I picked up at my local Fry's Computer store for $29.99 on sale last week and it...well it... verks, it verks! :hurah: No muss, or fuss. I didn't have to do a thing to the drive to format or anything. This enclosure is a breeze, very well laid out.
Now I am going to run some Cat5 cable under the house from my internet connection router to my DVR and get the DirecTV on Demand set up. It sure would be great if they can update the software/firmware to recognize the internal AND external drives connected to the HD DVR+.
Thanks for the focal point for all things pertaining to Satellite TV service.
Hey all...I used to be a regular on tivocommunity way back when. Havent been around in about 4 years though.
I'm new to the HR's having been a tivo user for about 9 years. Seems like all this stuff around external enclosures is a bit of a PITA. Anyone have a model that works on the HR21 (what I think i'll be getting in a few weeks) thats been running a while? All I can find is some stuff on the cavalry and antec MX-1 working well, but so far sounds like just for a few months. Then of course there are about 5 cavalry models, some with single disks and some with two 500's. Nice to have a little dual disk setup, but then you've got twice the failure prospects.
Having opened a dozen or so series 1 and 2 tivo's and directivos up and successfully upgraded their drives I'm tempted to just go that route. Heck, I even have a directivo with two drives in it mounted with surgical tape and double sticky foam thats been running for almost 2.5 years...:lol: Not far from the old days of strapping drives into series 1's with duct tape...
Has anyone tried this firmware for the freeagent drive? Hmm, the board isnt letting me post an URL until I have five posts, but its
support.seagate.com/rightnow/downloads/FA_Pro_eSATA_Update1.zip
with an http in front of it.
This seems to have been released late last year to resolve bad and erratic performance.
From reading up on things a bit, it seems that seagate may have severely detuned these drives to run cooler and quieter in the external enclosure. Many users are reporting performance at about 2/3 of what one gets with a similar seagate drive internally installed in a PC. And the freeagents disk performance didnt improve when the drive was removed and installed in a PC directly, so its drive related.
I'm also hearing way too much static on the type of drive to use. I like seagates, i'm comfortable with those in implementations handling a couple of SD streams but I'm hesitant to chuck a plain old disk drive into an HD box. The performance is there but the 24x7 for 2-4 years thing is whats bugging me a little.
I see some 24x7 certified drives like the seagate ES and the WD RAID Certified disks. The big prices are giving me a little heartburn though.
Not as much as having the disk eat a couple of weeks of programming though.
But then I note that directv is stuffing fairly mundane WD drives into a lot of these boxes, although they certainly have something higher than a zero failure rate...
Seems like all this stuff around external enclosures is a bit of a PITA.
Actually the eSATAs are a whole lot simpler to use and install than taking the DVR apart and, well, you know. I did that with TiVos for years as you did. Simply, the Cavalrys (which seem to be predominately WD HDs) and the Seagate Free Agent Pros will work with the 20s and the Cavalrys will work with the 21s. The enclosure thing sounds like work, while the eSATAs require nothing more than plugging a jumper cable between the 20/21 and the eSATA. The Cavalrys come with a jumper cable, the FAPs do not. Remember, the FAPs will not work with the 21s and don't come with a cable. Buying the Cavalry makes more sense.
Anyone have a model that works on the HR21 (what I think i'll be getting in a few weeks) thats been running a while?
I got my 21 January 31st and installed the Cavalry 750 two days later. Been perfect so far. Silent. Lays flat.
All I can find is some stuff on the cavalry and antec MX-1 working well, but so far sounds like just for a few months. Then of course there are about 5 cavalry models, some with single disks and some with two 500's. Nice to have a little dual disk setup, but then you've got twice the failure prospects.
If you go to Costco.com and go to Computers>Hard Drives/Storage you will find both the FAP and the Cavalry eSATAs listed. They also have a 2TB array for over $600, no bang for the buck there.
Having opened a dozen or so series 1 and 2 tivo's and directivos up and successfully upgraded their drives I'm tempted to just go that route. Heck, I even have a directivo with two drives in it mounted with surgical tape and double sticky foam thats been running for almost 2.5 years...:lol: Not far from the old days of strapping drives into series 1's with duct tape...
I've done all that and the eSATAs are so much easier.
Has anyone tried this firmware for the freeagent drive? Hmm, the board isnt letting me post an URL until I have five posts, but its
support.seagate.com/rightnow/downloads/FA_Pro_eSATA_Update1.zip
with an http in front of it.
This seems to have been released late last year to resolve bad and erratic performance.
I called Seagate tech support late last year, always a cheery experience, and asked them if they were doing anything about the FAPs not working with the 21s and received a negative reply.
From reading up on things a bit, it seems that seagate may have severely detuned these drives to run cooler and quieter in the external enclosure. Many users are reporting performance at about 2/3 of what one gets with a similar seagate drive internally installed in a PC. And the freeagents disk performance didnt improve when the drive was removed and installed in a PC directly, so its drive related.
I see no difference between the FAPs and the Cavalry eSATAs as far as performance goes.
I'm also hearing way too much static on the type of drive to use. I like seagates, i'm comfortable with those in implementations handling a couple of SD streams but I'm hesitant to chuck a plain old disk drive into an HD box. The performance is there but the 24x7 for 2-4 years thing is whats bugging me a little.
That problem can be solved simply. PM me and I'll 'splain.
I see some 24x7 certified drives like the seagate ES and the WD RAID Certified disks. The big prices are giving me a little heartburn though.
The Seagate FAPs actually have a 5 year replacement warranty. Those drives you quote above are way too expensive for a medium that changes so quickly.
Not as much as having the disk eat a couple of weeks of programming though.
I never trust a DVR and I've had TiVos, Ultimate TV DVRs and D*'s HD DVRs. If your concern is that serious, as is mine, the simple answer is backup, backup, backup.
But then I note that directv is stuffing fairly mundane WD drives into a lot of these boxes, although they certainly have something higher than a zero failure rate...
I've never read about or experienced a hard drive failure on a 20/21 except for the two that I destroyed thru poor judgment and clumsiness. I purchased eight Cavalrys early last year and had to return them all because they were so noisy. But they recorded and played back perfectly. But so noisy. The Cavalry I bought in January is so silent you don't even know it's there. Really improved their product over the course of last year.
Rich
jimanker
03-07-08, 04:17 PM
I'm a newbie to the forum stuff so please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.
I have an HR20/700 and have connected a 1TB Western Digital external HDD (called "My Book") to the SATA port on the DVR. I am using a 3 foot eSATA to eSATA cable. I have done everything that has been discussed in this thread and can't get the DVR to recognize the drive.
When I start up the DVR it doesn't get past the blue screen that says "starting up, please wait a few seconds more". Then the DVR shuts off and tries again. You can see that it is trying to communicate with the HDD because when the DVR shuts off the lights on the HDD flicker a bit and if I unplung the HDD from the DVR the HDD light goes out.
Any ideas?
I'm a newbie to the forum stuff so please let me know if I'm in the wrong place.
I have an HR20/700 and have connected a 1TB Western Digital external HDD (called "My Book") to the SATA port on the DVR. I am using a 3 foot eSATA to eSATA cable. I have done everything that has been discussed in this thread and can't get the DVR to recognize the drive.
When I start up the DVR it doesn't get past the blue screen that says "starting up, please wait a few seconds more". Then the DVR shuts off and tries again. You can see that it is trying to communicate with the HDD because when the DVR shuts off the lights on the HDD flicker a bit and if I unplung the HDD from the DVR the HDD light goes out.
Any ideas?
The My Book from WD does not work with DVRs. The Seagate Free Agent Pro and the Cavalry eSATAs will work with the HR20. The Seagate will NOT work with the HR21, but the Cavalry will. If you need more info, PM me.
Rich
Embedded_Journalist
03-08-08, 02:03 PM
UPDATE to my previous post:
I just got my new WD 750G SATA2 7200rpm 16MB Cache OEM Caviar HD
WD #7500AAKS from Newegg today. ($154.99) and I popped it into a external enclosure by Kingwin, mod. #Z1-35EU-BL (USB2.0 and eSATA) that I picked up at my local Fry's Computer store for $29.99 on sale last week and it...well it... verks, it verks! :hurah: No muss, or fuss. I didn't have to do a thing to the drive to format or anything. This enclosure is a breeze, very well laid out.
This combo above works fine. The enclosure for the drive does not seem to cool well. While it works fine, but the enclosure seems a bit warm to the touch, which concerns me for longevity's sake. One may consider the drives offered by WesternDig with the designation GP, which I think is intended to stand for GreenPower. These drives are advertised rpm spec 5400 to 7200 rpm as the need requires and run cooler and quieter using less energy which is a plus in the typically 24/7 application of a DVR. The drive that I set up has some noise that is noticeable, but not too bothersome. I think the minimal nature of the enclosure versus the larger case is less able to mask and dampen this. But the quality of the picture and playback is great so far with it in now for about 5 days.:grin:
mirosco
03-08-08, 02:05 PM
I have a HR 20 with an Calvary 750 GB eSata drive connected since Nov 2007
I have a question concerning the Protection Plan warranty of the HR 20 when it is connected to the eSata drive.
When I turned the TV on Thur morning, I noticed the picture frozen and the HR 20 unit was unresponsive
When I reboot the HR 20 (with or without the eSata drive connected), the HR 20 gets to the blue screen saying "Almost There...".Then, it goes to a white screen displaying the Direct TV HD DRV + logo. It stays there for a minute and then goes to a black screen. The Blue LEDs keep spinning. I left the unit like this overnight but it never gets completes the startup process.
I just called Direct TV and went through the troubleshooting process. They are going to send a technician over to resolve the problem. The technician on the phone said that I should not have the eSata drive connected to the HR 20 and that I should remove it from the area. He said that a failure of the HR 20 due to eSata invalidates the warranty on the HR 20 and that I may need to pay for it.
Has anyone else heard this or -- worse -- has anyone had to pay for a broken HR 20 because it was connected to an eSata drive?
It does not appear that my problem was caused my the eSata drive since the HR 20 will not boot with or without the drive connected.
I have a HR 20 with an Calvary 750 GB eSata drive connected since Nov 2007
I have a question concerning the Protection Plan warranty of the HR 20 when it is connected to the eSata drive.
Glad to see someone bright enough to take advantage of the Protection Plan.
When I turned the TV on Thur morning, I noticed the picture frozen and the HR 20 unit was unresponsive
When I reboot the HR 20 (with or without the eSata drive connected), the HR 20 gets to the blue screen saying "Almost There...".Then, it goes to a white screen displaying the Direct TV HD DRV + logo. It stays there for a minute and then goes to a black screen. The Blue LEDs keep spinning. I left the unit like this overnight but it never gets completes the startup process.
Sounds like it's shot.
I just called Direct TV and went through the troubleshooting process.
You didn't mention the eSATA, did you? D* doesn't "support" it (I guess that means they don't take responsibility for anything that happens to the eSATA). Most of the first line CSRs don't know what an eSATA is, but...
They are going to send a technician over to resolve the problem.
Don't expect too much and hope he has a replacement 20/21 on the truck and is empowered to replace a unit.
The technician on the phone said that I should not have the eSata drive connected to the HR 20 and that I should remove it from the area. He said that a failure of the HR 20 due to eSata invalidates the warranty on the HR 20 and that I may need to pay for it.
First, you never mention eSATA to D*. Second, you should have pushed back and told the PP CSR that you wanted a replacement. What could an installer (that's who they send out and call them techs) possibly do that you haven't done already?
Has anyone else heard this or -- worse -- has anyone had to pay for a broken HR 20 because it was connected to an eSata drive?
I read most posts relating to eSATAs (I wouldn't own a DVR without an eSATA or the legal ability to put a larger HD in the unit) and I've never seen anything regarding that issue. I've had many 20s fail and sent them back and hooked up the same eSATA the bad unit had and the eSATA worked every time. I don't see any reason to think using an eSATA has any adverse effects on the 20/21s.
It does not appear that my problem was caused my the eSata drive since the HR 20 will not boot with or without the drive connected.
And that is exactly what you should have told the PP CSR without mentioning the eSATA. Call them back and tell them you are certain the unit is shot and want a replacement. That is what is going to happen anyway. You'll get a replacement in a working day or three.
Rich
Travyhd
03-10-08, 01:08 PM
Not trying to be rude or anything, but isn't this kinda disproving what you are saying?
"I've had many 20s fail and sent them back and hooked up the same eSATA the bad unit had and the eSATA worked every time. I don't see any reason to think using an eSATA has any adverse effects on the 20/21s."
So you have had many fail with ESATA's connected, and don't see a problem with them being connected? Just sounds kinda funny. :)
Not trying to be rude or anything, but isn't this kinda disproving what you are saying?
"I've had many 20s fail and sent them back and hooked up the same eSATA the bad unit had and the eSATA worked every time. I don't see any reason to think using an eSATA has any adverse effects on the 20/21s."
So you have had many fail with ESATA's connected, and don't see a problem with them being connected? Just sounds kinda funny. :)
The DVRs were bad in every case. The same issue arose whether the eSATA was hooked up or not hooked up. Not the eSATAs. The issues were attributable to the 20/21s. When I hooked up the eSATAs to the replacements the issues did not reoccur.
Tip for you: Hit the "Reply with quote" button so that people will know what post you are referring to.
Rich
jimanker
03-11-08, 02:50 PM
FYI I just bought a Calvery 1TB HDD (CAXE3701T0) for $177 at Buy.com. That price includes $50.00 off for signing up for their in-house credit card.
Hopefully the unit will work as discussed in the above thread. I will let you know
Jim, I bought the same drive for $177 today too.
Here is the link for $50 off but you have to sign up for another credit card which i will cancel after I send them $177.
http://www.buy.com/corp/revolution_offer.asp
SKU DESCRIPTION QTY UNIT PRICE ITEM TOTAL
205986373 Cavalry 1TB (Single Disk) Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) External Hard Drive 1 $227.99 $227.99
take $50 OFF the purchase of $51 when you use your RevolutionCard 1 $-50.00 $-50.00
Shipping & Handling: $0
Tax: $0
SubTotal: $177.99
Schmedley
03-11-08, 05:41 PM
Jim, I bought the same drive for $177 today too.
Here is the link for $50 off but you have to sign up for another credit card which i will cancel after I send them $177.
http://www.buy.com/corp/revolution_offer.asp
SKU DESCRIPTION QTY UNIT PRICE ITEM TOTAL
205986373 Cavalry 1TB (Single Disk) Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) External Hard Drive 1 $227.99 $227.99
take $50 OFF the purchase of $51 when you use your RevolutionCard 1 $-50.00 $-50.00
Shipping & Handling: $0
Tax: $0
SubTotal: $177.99
I wonder how the "Credit Score" companies look at these transactions?
I wonder how the "Credit Score" companies look at these transactions?
I was going to comment on this the other day, but I figured everyone knew already. The answer to your question is: Adversely. Of course they seem to jump at the chance to downgrade scores for practically no logical reason, but the more credit cards you have open or open and closed, the lower your score, no matter how you pay them.
Is it something to worry about? If you have great credit scores, no, as long as you don't go for a whole bunch of them. If you have marginal scores, yes.
I have a friend who has never had a credit card and refuses to get one and has a terrible time when he travels.
You just about have to have a couple, but if you take advantage of those offers, you will see your scores get lower over time. I realize it's tempting, but it's also nice to be able to walk into a car dealership and have them check your credit rating and tell you you can have anything in the showroom. Same thing applies to a house.
Amazon always offers $30 off on any purchase if you take out their card. Best not to get "suckered" in.
Rich
I pay for my cars with cash. It isn't hard. You drive a $1000 beater for the first 5 years after college and put the $500 "payment" in the bank EVERY MONTH while doing only maintenance needed to keep it road worthy. And the beater costs a lot less to insure too so pocket that extra $100/month. :D
After that for the REST OF YOUR LIFE you can pretty much buy whatever you want with your own cash and earn interest while you're at it. I really don't care about my credit score but I also know I have no worries there anyway (I know this from signing up for cell phones where they run a credit rating and share the score with me). I'm not trying to show off... it seriously isn't hard if you can weather 4 or 5 years with a crap car. You can pretty much drive whatever you want forever after that (or keep driving a beater and pocket the cash into a Roth IRA... which is quite tempting after you accumulate $25-40K of cash and are used to driving a "junker").
There are some situations where a lowering score can hurt your job... military... security... in some security classifications they run a score on you and you are showing a lower score you can lose your security classification and ultimately the job you currently have and be downgraded to a lower paying job. It can be serious. For me, I don't have that issue and since I don't open/close cards AS A HABBIT the score won't be adversely affected.
Additionally if you carry a balance on a low "teaser" rate credit card with another card company, they can run a report any time and "downgrade" your rate (up your rate) based on the credit report they just ran... even though you've paid your bill on time every month. Again, I don't have to worry about that personally.
Guy I work with got an Amex offer that came with 50000 bonus points for opening and putting $200 on it in the first month. It had an annual fee but waived for the first year. He opened for himself and his wife and 3 months later got his 100K bonus points. He ordered two $500 Home Depot Gift Cards and paid off and closed the accounts. $1000... would you do it for $1000? Everyone has their limits :)
But yeah, if you're going to close on a house, or looking for credit... best not to monkey.
I pay for my cars with cash. It isn't hard. You drive a $1000 beater for the first 5 years after college and put the $500 "payment" in the bank EVERY MONTH while doing only maintenance needed to keep it road worthy. And the beater costs a lot less to insure too so pocket that extra $100/month.
Not many people have that much discipline.
After that for the REST OF YOUR LIFE you can pretty much buy whatever you want with your own cash and earn interest while you're at it. I really don't care about my credit score but I also know I have no worries there anyway (I know this from signing up for cell phones where they run a credit rating and share the score with me). I'm not trying to show off... it seriously isn't hard if you can weather 4 or 5 years with a crap car. You can pretty much drive whatever you want forever after that (or keep driving a beater and pocket the cash into a Roth IRA... which is quite tempting after you accumulate $25-40K of cash and are used to driving a "junker").
I haven't had a junker in a long time. I finance my cars myself. But, that's not what the poster was talking about. Doing what he was talking about can lower your credit score. Most people aren't as fortunate as you and I and have to pay for their cars. By the way, what you are doing is losing your money when you buy a car if you finance it or lay down cash for it. My way, at the end of five years I have a car and the money is back in my pocket, including the interest and all the little fees. Free car.
There are some situations where a lowering score can hurt your job... military... security... in some security classifications they run a score on you and you are showing a lower score you can lose your security classification and ultimately the job you currently have and be downgraded to a lower paying job. It can be serious. For me, I don't have that issue and since I don't open/close cards AS A HABBIT the score won't be adversely affected.
You're preaching to the choir.
Additionally if you carry a balance on a low "teaser" rate credit card with another card company, they can run a report any time and "downgrade" your rate (up your rate) based on the credit report they just ran... even though you've paid your bill on time every month. Again, I don't have to worry about that personally.
Bear in mind, you are not normal.
Guy I work with got an Amex offer that came with 50000 bonus points for opening and putting $200 on it in the first month. It had an annual fee but waived for the first year. He opened for himself and his wife and 3 months later got his 100K bonus points. He ordered two $500 Home Depot Gift Cards and paid off and closed the accounts. $1000... would you do it for $1000? Everyone has their limits :)
Would I do that? Yeah. How do you think I got all the money I have? By being moral? I'll take anything anybody gives me, if they are foolish enough to offer it. The "moral police" are going to come down on us. Watch.
But yeah, if you're going to close on a house, or looking for credit... best not to monkey.
Getting ready to buy a second house in PA. That 99% credit rating really knocks down interest rates. We need another tax deduction.
Rich
Sorry to take OT...
Not many people have that much discipline...
Bear in mind, you are not normal....Most people aren't as fortunate as you and I and have to pay for their cars....
We are fortunate to be abnormal :D The discipline is no different than if I had a payment except I don't "cheat" myself with late payments or missed payment. When I said above "it isn't hard" I meant it is No harder to pay myself than it is to pay a bank. It is a payment either way. I actually have my online bank swipe it from my checking account like any other payment.
My way, at the end of five years I have a car and the money is back in my pocket, including the interest and all the little fees. Free car.
How is it a free car? :confused:
I hear you 100%... so many people still financing their Olive Garden meals from the 1990s on their teaser rate credit cards.
viperlmw
03-13-08, 10:00 PM
ST3750330AS, Antec MX-1 enclosure, HR21-700. Put it together, plugged it in, turned on MX-1, RBR, works like a champ. 4min 30sec RBR to video.
SubSolar
03-14-08, 06:41 PM
I pay for my cars with cash. It isn't hard. You drive a $1000 beater for the first 5 years after college and put the $500 "payment" in the bank EVERY MONTH while doing only maintenance needed to keep it road worthy. And the beater costs a lot less to insure too so pocket that extra $100/month. :D
After that for the REST OF YOUR LIFE you can pretty much buy whatever you want with your own cash and earn interest while you're at it. I really don't care about my credit score but I also know I have no worries there anyway (I know this from signing up for cell phones where they run a credit rating and share the score with me). I'm not trying to show off... it seriously isn't hard if you can weather 4 or 5 years with a crap car. You can pretty much drive whatever you want forever after that (or keep driving a beater and pocket the cash into a Roth IRA... which is quite tempting after you accumulate $25-40K of cash and are used to driving a "junker").
dyker is secretly Dave Ramsey.
rcoleman111
03-15-08, 03:48 AM
I was going to comment on this the other day, but I figured everyone knew already. The answer to your question is: Adversely. Of course they seem to jump at the chance to downgrade scores for practically no logical reason, but the more credit cards you have open or open and closed, the lower your score, no matter how you pay them.
Rich
Not necessarily. A poster in another thread suggested that my credit score would have gone down by 50 to 100 points because I opened 3 new credit cards a few months ago. Well, I bought a new car last week and the dealer checked my credit. He wouldn't reveal the exact number, but he said my score was in the range of 750 to 850, or what he considered "perfect" credit.
dyker is secretly Dave Ramsey.
Good one... Dave Speaks truth. I agree with everything he says for people mired in credit card debt. CUT THEM UP.
That being said, has anyone mentioned this ICY DOCK MB559 Series MB559US-1S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817198003) Aluminum body w/ partial plastic 3.5" eSATA & USB 2.0 External Enclosure - Retail from Newegg for $21.99 after $20.00 Mail-In Rebate? I'm sticking with the Cavalry 1TB I got for $180 for now, but thought I'd point it out.
rbautch
03-18-08, 07:11 PM
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rbautch
03-18-08, 07:11 PM
post 2
rbautch
03-18-08, 07:12 PM
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rbautch
03-18-08, 07:12 PM
post 4
rbautch
03-18-08, 07:13 PM
Post 5
rbautch
03-18-08, 07:14 PM
Buy.com also has this (http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=202734456) Cavalry 750 GB external drive for $139. It's the same price/GB without the need to sign up for a new credit card.
jayerndl
03-18-08, 07:44 PM
Buy.com also has this (http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=202734456) Cavalry 750 GB external drive for $139. It's the same price/GB without the need to sign up for a new credit card.They also have this (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205986373&adid=17653&dcaid=17653) 1TB Cavalry eSATA drive for $189 AR. I bought this same drive awhile back and it works fine with an HR20.
Jay
Lord Vader
03-18-08, 07:53 PM
Buy.com also has this (http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=202734456) Cavalry 750 GB external drive for $139. It's the same price/GB without the need to sign up for a new credit card.
Hey, Russ. Welcome to DBSTalk.com!
:welcome_s:balloons:
Fry's has 1TB Maxtor for $199 currently, ZipZoomFly has Samsung 750GB for $118. I like the price point on the Sammy, but I can drive to Fry's tomorrow, so not sure which way I'll go. :)
...actually, been doing some research, looks like the jury is out on the Samsung reliability. Checking around, I may go pick up a 1TB WD green drive, it's on sale at BB for $231, only a few bucks more than Newegg or ZZF and without the wait. I've been using WD for the past few years, so I know they're quiet, and from what I'm reading, the green drives are even more quiet, along with using less power.
I've read some large resellers failure reports on drives and consistently see that samsung and maxtor are by a good margin more failure prone than seagates and western digitals.
I used to have good luck with maxtors before the seagate buyout. Seems things have gone a bit downhill since then. Samsung seems to have developed a reputation as a maker of fast drives that dont last.
I'm also still a little skeptical of the WD 'greenpower's. Probably because a company gets a -25 from me when they employ excessive BS marketing. These drives are advertised so as to imply that they change speed between 5400 and 7200 rpm, when in fact there is no such technology and these are merely 5400rpm sata drives. While cooler running and of lower power draw, they also perform at a lower level. Really a fine setup for a system drive in a low power green system or in an external thats used for backups and nearline storage...but I'm not sure its the drive I'd hammer a couple of HD streams through 24x7 for a couple of years straight.
I used to have good luck with maxtors before the seagate buyout. Seems things have gone a bit downhill since then.The slide seems to have begun when the Quantum hard drive division was fully digested by Maxtor.
The same thing seems to have happened with IBM and Hitachi.
Well see, I thought the IBM/hitachi's were intuitively stinkers since the Deathstar / "oh, well, we dont actually make the drives to be turned on for more than 8 hours at a time" debacle...yet they actually are right up there with the seagates and WD's for low in-field failures, according to a few of the failure reports I've seen. One was for an asian reseller that owned warranty on a few hundred thousand machines and had some good, recent data on their replacement rates for 1, 3 and 5 years.
Quantums were bad. I was so happy when we first figured out how to replace tivo hard drives and I was able to get the one out of the tivo in my bedroom. It sounded like a coffee can full of gravel.
Harrisonman
03-29-08, 05:27 PM
Is there any way to save the data on an HR 21 before plugging in an eSata drive? To use the existing data on the HR 21, can you simply disconnect the eSata then plug it in again?
What wireless network device would enable media sharing on the HR 21. I have a Belkin draft N router?
I'm very meh on this MX-1 enclosure. Everyone seems to love them, I think it's too damn loud. I'd say it does a bang up job keeping the drive cool, but at a cost of noise. Shrug, maybe I just have a bad one. I'll just go get the AMS Venus esata version of the Venus USB enclosure that I already have, that's quiet enough.
Well see, I thought the IBM/hitachi's were intuitively stinkers since the Deathstar / "oh, well, we dont actually make the drives to be turned on for more than 8 hours at a time" debacle...yet they actually are right up there with the seagates and WD's for low in-field failures, according to a few of the failure reports I've seen.I had a 3 year MTBF on Ultrastar drives.
Lord Vader
03-29-08, 08:13 PM
My MX-1 is quiet as a church mouse. No noise whatsoever.
I think you've got a bad one. My two are quieter than the HR20.
I have seen some folks with 2-4 of them say that one is louder than the rest. One of mine makes a tiny little whirring sound if I put my head within 2' of it. The other I cant hear unless I put my ear to it.
lucky13
03-30-08, 01:41 PM
Is there any way to save the data on an HR 21 before plugging in an eSata drive? To use the existing data on the HR 21, can you simply disconnect the eSata then plug it in again?
Yes. When you connect an ESATA drive, nothing happens to the recordings on the internal drive. To play them, just do a menu reboot and unplug the ESATA from the dvr when the dvr's lights go off.
Just remember the reinstall the eSATA drive before your next scheduled event comes or you'll likely miss it. Your scheduling desires are stored on the hard drive and you'll have to start over when you add an external drive.
hihostevo
03-31-08, 02:16 AM
I cannot believe after all the time the eSata has been active that they have not included a "clone drive" command in the DVR's firmware..........
Even my buddy with an MX-1 says his is quiet, guess I'll see about exchanging it at Amazon.
I cannot believe after all the time the eSata has been active that they have not included a "clone drive" command in the DVR's firmware..........Where would you recommend that they clone it to?
jpercia
03-31-08, 02:45 PM
I saw this $119.99 750GB eSATA drive from Buy.com
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206181448&adid=17070&dcaid=17070
Anybody know anything about Ion as a manufacturer? Are their drives any good?
ToolMan100
04-01-08, 09:58 AM
Hey, quick qusetion. I know this was posted somewhwere, but I am having trouble finding the answer. I have a WD 1 TB hooked to my HR21-700. Do I leave the eSATA on all the time? Even with the HR21 in off/standby? It is in the MX1 enclosure and humms along. Just wasn't sure if the sucker stays on permanently. Thanks
Michael D'Angelo
04-01-08, 12:29 PM
Hey, quick qusetion. I know this was posted somewhwere, but I am having trouble finding the answer. I have a WD 1 TB hooked to my HR21-700. Do I leave the eSATA on all the time? Even with the HR21 in off/standby? It is in the MX1 enclosure and humms along. Just wasn't sure if the sucker stays on permanently. Thanks
Welcome to DBSTalk
Yes you need to leave it on all the time. That is the only way it would be able to record everything.
When you put your HR21 into standby all that does is turn the front panel lights off and the A/V outputs off. All other functions still work.
ToolMan100
04-01-08, 03:02 PM
much appreciated! Thanks!
PlanoBill
04-03-08, 12:22 PM
I was one of the early adapters of the HR10. Paid $1,000 for it and suffered through the early years when the local CBS HD antenna would frequently fail, and one night knocked every HD receiver in 10 miles out.
D* finally made me an offer I couldn't refuse. First they are obsoleting my HR10. But they offered a free NEW HR20, I keep my HR10 (have 2), New dish, free install, they will move the HR10 to the bedroom (just figured out it might be too noisey, I"ll have to check on that with the wife) and agreed to do this with no contract commitment.
They are coming on Tuesday.
My home theater stuff is crammed into a high cabinet so I only mess with it only when I have to.
So I wanted to hook up the eSATA drive and the wireless network adapter just after they get the new HR20 installed (don't know which one and they won't tell me. They did confirm twice that it will be a new HR20, I want my OTA).
So I just ordered the 1TB Calvary that I saw referenced serveral times in this thread for $217 at Buy.com. I saw cheaper prices above, but this seems like a good enough deal to me.
I have read the installation steps in this tread, seems easy enough.
Chose the Calvary because I see it also works with the HR21 if things change in the future or if D* doesn't do what they have promised (ever happen?).
I dread figuring out how to deal with the wireless adapter, but that will be another thread.
Does this sound like a good approach? Suggestions?
I hooked up my new MX-1 from amazon last night and it seems a little loud to me. My projecter is only 19db and it seems louder than that. I'm sure it's the fan inside I'm hearing. The fan casing is plastic though and I'm wondering if I over-tightened the mounting screws. That could twist the fan casing slightly and cause the hum. It's really not that bad, but I can clearly hear it across the room. I'll play around with it tonight and report my findings.
steve
Paul_PDX
04-05-08, 04:46 PM
Has anyone tried disconnecting the Internal Drive to save power and heat. I only have about 10 hours of shows on it so after a good rainy weekend of watching I probably could disconnect the cables from it and let my HR21 run cooler /quieter/and greener by just using my eSATA.
Any downside to this that anyone knows of?
reubenray
04-06-08, 09:19 AM
Just got back from vacation and the HR20 was hung up. Did a hard reboot and got it back working. Only about a third of my shows I scheduled is there. It also shows only 1% still available. There is only 10 HD 1 hour shows recorded. It should have more than 1% space left. This is making me think that the original hard drive was used.
How can I check? The other hard drive is 750mb.
Lord Vader
04-06-08, 09:25 AM
Reboot it with the eSATA drive disabled then take a look at your Now Playing List. This should tell you if its internal drive was used or not.
w280sax
04-06-08, 03:05 PM
I joined just to say that this thread has been very useful to me (and the site in general, as I've been lurking here for a couple weeks) and to thank those who have posted so much information about the hard drive expansion possibilities of the HD-DVRs.
I just ordered two Calvary 1TB eSata drives since I read here that they work easiest with either the HR20's or HR21's and I have both models in my house. I can't wait to try it out.
reubenray
04-06-08, 03:34 PM
Reboot it with the eSATA drive disabled then take a look at your Now Playing List. This should tell you if its internal drive was used or not.
Did this and it is using the original hard drive. Now to figure out what happened and to get the Seagate back on. Hopefully some of the shows are there.
What is the sequence again if anyone know right off?
reubenray
04-06-08, 04:46 PM
The shows that were recorded last week are on the Seagate 750. But why is it showing on 6% of space available with only 5 hours of HD shows on it. What is taking up all of my space? The internal hard drive has more space that the 750 does now. Are my shows hiding somewhere?
Any ideas?
w280sax
04-06-08, 04:50 PM
Several people mentioned using several eSata drives and swapping them out. So, I was wondering if I had an archival drive and an everyday drive and I was going to use them both with the same DVR, could I transfer many videos off the everyday drive onto the archival drive whenever the everyday drive was filling up.
I get that the videos on the hard-drive are hooked to the DVR they are recorded on and that would worry me if the DVR was to die or D* forced an upgrade on us much like they did when the MPEG2 machines became obsolete. Am I correct in thinking there is no alternative if those things ever happen other than lose what I've archived?
I apologize if these have already been asked and answered many times but this is a huge thread to sort through.
virodeath
04-08-08, 10:15 AM
Hi, I have been mulling around trying to find info. on this topic and 98 pages later I figured I would be better off just asking.
I don't seem to see a Sticky on compatible eSATA enclosures for the HR20/21 (I might be blind though it has happened before). Is there a list or reference to them that are good and will allow proper ventilation to the 1tb hard drives when left on all the time? I have a 20 & 21 both out in the open so I would be looking for a silver and black enclosure. My main concern is that since the external enclosure has to be left on all the time it has decent ventilation for the hard drive.
Also another question is how do you know a eSATA enclosure will work with the eSATA interface? Meaning I see lots of enclosures with driver disc's for PC, etc. Are these drivers ONLY for PC compatibility? Will all eSATA enclosures that house 1tb drives just work with the HR20/21 or is there something specific you have to look for.
Thanks in advance!
Viro
ToolMan100
04-08-08, 12:41 PM
My WD 1TB with the Antec MX-1 enclosure has been humming right along with no issues whatsoever.
virodeath
04-08-08, 01:10 PM
My WD 1TB with the Antec MX-1 enclosure has been humming right along with no issues whatsoever.
How loud is it?
I was going to get Eagle Consus W-Series ET-CSWESU2-BK but was concerned that passive cooling might not be enough for a drive that is on all the time.
Viro
How loud is it?
I was going to get Eagle Consus W-Series ET-CSWESU2-BK but was concerned that passive cooling might not be enough for a drive that is on all the time.
Viro
I thought the one I got from Amazon was a little loud so I picked one up from Best Buy and it was the same (took that one back). To my ear, I think it is louder than my projector which is rated at 19db, but in economy mode the projector I've got is very quiet and I suspect is more like 17 to 18db and that's what I'm comparing it to.
I've got a small oak shelf I made that everything is sitting on beneath the screen and it has about 7 inches of hollow space underneath and is open in the back. I stuck it under there and now I can't hear it at all on the other side of the room.
-steve
sndpauls
04-08-08, 10:34 PM
From what I have been told... it will look at the disk first... see if it is already formated... and only format if necessary
After recording about 400g of movies on my seagate 750 via e-sata, I had a short power outage. When it came back on it said that it had formated my drive, and low and behold all my recorded content was gone. It showed 100% available space. Had lots of payperviews that I lost. I thought I'd be able to fill one drive and go back to it to access certain movies etc. when I wanted to. Guess not.
Also thought it formated only a small portion so it wouldn't delete any other content. bummer.
I too snagged another MX-1 to compare, with the intention of sending the loudest one back, but they're both about the same to me. I just hear a different kind of fan noise from it than other devices, it sounds bit more...helicoptery. :) It looks like maybe the blades on that fan are a bit deeper than others, maybe that's the noise difference I hear. I ended up ordering a Venus DS3 from Newegg, like I was going to do originally, and I'm using that with the HR21, it's a little quieter to me. Pity, I'd have rather used the MX-1 and used the more compact DS3 for my PC.
bookwalk
04-12-08, 08:22 AM
What did I do wrong? Got a Seagate FAP ext hd to eSATA to my HR 20-100. First--powered up ext hd. 2nd--powered down HR20 (did not unplug). 3rd connected eSATA cable from exthd to HR 20. 4th--red button reset on receiver.
Seems to now recognize Seagate BUT problems with HR20: did not record when powered off and now won't even power up without doing a reset.
So I powered down and unplugged Seagate--did reset on HR 20 and have original back.
Starting over--how do I properly connect seagate AND disconnect when I want to go back to original HR20 internal?
First--powered up ext hd. 2nd--powered down HR20 (did not unplug). 3rd connected eSATA cable from exthd to HR 20. 4th--red button reset on receiver.You MUST unplug the receiver. See post #1 in this thread, bullet point #3.
bookwalk
04-12-08, 11:07 AM
You MUST unplug the receiver. See post #1 in this thread, bullet point #3.
OK, I found that point as below:
When you connected an eSATA drive, you need to do so when the unit is powered off (UNPLUGGED). When starting up, the HR20 will detect the eSATA drive, format as necessary, and then use that drive only. Edited from original postHowever, I have seen conflicting information--that I need to do a Menu reset and if I do that--when? After plugging in or when? Also, is it a Menu Rest or the red button reset? They said that I should unplug AFTER doing a menu rest--when lights go out to make sure internal HD is not running at the time.
If that is true, then here's what I understand from above and other posts (didn't know if there was something new with the new software for the HR20-100, being the post above is 2 years old:
1. Menu reset and Unplug as soon as lights go off
2. Unplug as above.
3. Plug in Seagate eSATA cable (hd is powered)
4. Plug the HR20 back in.
5. Wait or do a red button reset?????????
How about when I want to unplug it to revert to the internal HD?
Rather than trying to restate the original post, have you contemplated using it as it stands? There's no mention of doing a reset.
Reverting uses the same process with the eSATA cable unplugged. No menu resets, no RBRs, no incantations nor ritual sacrifice required.
Rinkleroot
04-13-08, 06:58 AM
I saw this $119.99 750GB eSATA drive from Buy.com
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=206181448&adid=17070&dcaid=17070
Anybody know anything about Ion as a manufacturer? Are their drives any good?
I purchased the Vox 500gb when it was on sale about a month ago at buy.com , its been working fine ever since, I lost power twice the other night and everything rebooted without any problems. Its quiet and doesn't run hot, I'm using the cable that came with the drive, so far so good!! :) Here's a pic of it beside my HR-21,
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x64/rinkleroot/P1050319.jpg
bookwalk
04-18-08, 07:49 PM
Had my Seagate FAPro for almost 2 weeks on my HR20-100. Twice--when I tried to power on the HR-20 using the remote--it wouldn't. So I unpluggedd it & that powered down the Seagate. Unplugged eSATA from back of HR20 and then plugged it back in.
It rebooted and now I have the internal drive back.
What is causing this problem with turning on the HR20 when the ext HD is attached? It doesn't happen with the internal drive in use?
Is it the way I hook it up or what?
Should I just not be powering it off with the remote?
__________________
Had my Seagate FAPro for almost 2 weeks on my HR20-100. Twice--when I tried to power on the HR-20 using the remote--it wouldn't. So I unpluggedd it & that powered down the Seagate. Unplugged eSATA from back of HR20 and then plugged it back in.
It rebooted and now I have the internal drive back.
What is causing this problem with turning on the HR20 when the ext HD is attached? It doesn't happen with the internal drive in use?
Is it the way I hook it up or what?
Should I just not be powering it off with the remote?
__________________
A. When you unplug the HR20, unplug the eSATA's power cord too. Then plug in the eSATA power cord and then plug in the HR20. That should work.
B. I think the 100s are the worst of the HR20s and have never gotten one to work correctly with an eSATA hooked up to it. I've tried it with 9 of them and none of them worked correctly. One 100 destroyed an FAP and then destroyed it's infernal drive. Were it my choice, I would get a replacement and hope for an HR20-700 or an HR21.
The above statements are just my opinion based on my experiences with the 100s. No need for people to post how well their 100s work.
Rich
Greetings all,
Some time ago, I purchased a Seagate ST30000XS 500G Esata drive to increase the capacity of my HR20-700, based on positive reviews by those who had it working with their HR20s. Last week, I finally got enough of my wife's shows off the DVR to be able to delete everything and install the Seagate. I did the following:
Unplugged the HR20's power cord
Plugged in the Seagate's power cord, attached the Esata cable to the Seagate and the HR20 and turned the Seagate on.
Plugged in the HR20's power cord
I expected the HR20 to recognize the Seagate and format it. However, the HR20 didn't seem to recognize it, and went right on starting up, apparently on the internal drive. So, I repeated the above, switching ends on the Esata cable, with the same negative result. Then I unplugged the HR20's power, removed the Seagate completely, plugged the HR20's power in again, and it booted normally on (obviously) the internal drive. If anyone has any ideas why the HR20 doesn't recognize the Seagate, let me know. My best guess relates to another problem, which is that my HR20's HDMI output is not operational. I think that both the Esata and the HDMI jack have bad connections to the HR20's motherboard, but this is almost impossible to prove.
If you have any ideas, please post them here. As always, thank you in advance.
JT01
Michael D'Angelo
04-20-08, 05:35 PM
Greetings all,
Some time ago, I purchased a Seagate ST30000XS 500G Esata drive to increase the capacity of my HR20-700, based on positive reviews by those who had it working with their HR20s. Last week, I finally got enough of my wife's shows off the DVR to be able to delete everything and install the Seagate. I did the following:
Unplugged the HR20's power cord
Plugged in the Seagate's power cord, attached the Esata cable to the Seagate and the HR20 and turned the Seagate on.
Plugged in the HR20's power cord
I expected the HR20 to recognize the Seagate and format it. However, the HR20 didn't seem to recognize it, and went right on starting up, apparently on the internal drive. So, I repeated the above, switching ends on the Esata cable, with the same negative result. Then I unplugged the HR20's power, removed the Seagate completely, plugged the HR20's power in again, and it booted normally on (obviously) the internal drive. If anyone has any ideas why the HR20 doesn't recognize the Seagate, let me know. My best guess relates to another problem, which is that my HR20's HDMI output is not operational. I think that both the Esata and the HDMI jack have bad connections to the HR20's motherboard, but this is almost impossible to prove.
If you have any ideas, please post them here. As always, thank you in advance.
JT01
Are you sure it wasn't working? The start up time is the same as normal startup I believe.
Did you have any series links still showing?
Hi Folks,
This is a re-posting of a question I pinned to the H20/H21 user thread . I've read the pinned thread posting FAQs from 2006, and they seem to be clear about the H20/H21 DVR External Drive Usage. I know that the FCC mandated that, by April 2004, STB makers provide at least one FireWire port for the attachment of external storage drives.
However, CrimeWarner uses both drives as of 2007--as listed in my post below. I just wondered if there have been any updates to the DVR storage usage rules in any of the new DSS STB HD DVR boxes. Seems a shame to waste the internal drive space. Surely CrimeWarner STBs can't claim any benefits beyond the DirecTV HD DVR boxes??
Oh well, if BlockBuster can acquire Circuit City in a hostile takeover.....
Thanks for your expertise.
Eric57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SNIP...
Anyway, I now understand the Scientific Atlanta (now CISCO) cable STB DVR disk usage algorithm:
1. If both drives are empty, then use the internal disk
2. If internal drive is full, then use the external disk
3. If both drives are used, but not full, use disk with most free space
4. If STB power off, and not recording, then defragment disks as needed
I thought that the FCC required the STBs to use both disks, but perhaps it requires only that an expansion port be included--and not the usage constraints.
So any advances to the FR20/HR21 DVR STBs to use both the internal and external disks? The answer will tell me if my 750GB ESATA drive would be used in addition to the internal 250GB drive (IE, would I have a usable 750GB or 1TB of storage space).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After recording about 400g of movies on my seagate 750 via e-sata, I had a short power outage. When it came back on it said that it had formated my drive, and low and behold all my recorded content was gone. It showed 100% available space. Had lots of payperviews that I lost. I thought I'd be able to fill one drive and go back to it to access certain movies etc. when I wanted to. Guess not.
Also thought it formated only a small portion so it wouldn't delete any other content. bummer.
Hi, I reluctant to mention this thought after you've already been zapped, but after several unpleasant power incidents myownself...
We are *continually* plagued by power sags on our grid, when somebody down the block turns on an industrial strength compressor. Not to mention the *nasty* lightning strikes we get in the Southeast summers.
So, the last time that I had to upgrade my APC UPS/Surge protector for one of the computers, I got a new battery and attached all my HT equipment to a power strip and the old APC unit. I know that a power strip attached to a UPS does not necessarily supply "equally distributed" power, but this should work fine with most HT equipment. Of course, you could always get a real power distributor for lots of sensitive gear running at the same time.
Anyway, they're relatively inexpensive insurance for unpredictable power grids.
No, I don't work for APC--any UL approved UPS/power distributor should do the trick.
Fried once for $4000....and lost more than a few shows.:(
Eric57
Riot Nrrrd™
04-21-08, 03:25 AM
It blows my mind that a full year and a half after the start of this thread, DirecTV still has yet to provide a way to easily migrate one's internal drive contents to an external eSATA drive.
Just look at the instructions up-thread about using Linux with XFS support to do this yourself if you yank the internal out (thus, of course, voiding your warranty) and then realize that the HR-20/HR-21 box itself runs embedded Linux inside, and you really have to wonder why they couldn't have implemented the same sort of command sequence internally in the DVR itself.
"New external drive detected - migrate internal drive contents to external? [Yes/No]" - how hard would that be? The notion that connecting the eSATA port automatically shunts the internal out of the loop just strikes me as ... bizarre.
(Can you tell I'm someone that just bought a 2x1TB RAID1 mirrored setup and have an internal drive that's 92% full?)
It blows my mind that a full year and a half after the start of this thread, DirecTV still has yet to provide a way to easily migrate one's internal drive contents to an external eSATA drive.
(Can you tell I'm someone that just bought a 2x1TB RAID1 mirrored setup and have an internal drive that's 92% full?)
What amazes me is how CrimeWarner and their SA 8300HD DVR can add the external drive capacity to its existing available cluster count, and then continue by jumping into the algorithm I posted above:
1. If both drives are empty, then use the internal disk
2. Else If the internal drive is full, then use the external drive
3. Else If both drives are used, but not full, use disk with most free space
You're absolutely correct: this just isn't that difficult. Can you burn your shows on the internal drive to DVD via HDMI, Firewire, or USB--or are the shows tagged with the "copy once" header flag?
I know this is annoying, but it's still better than having a constant, personal relationship with the cable technicians over signal degradation--followed by sales calls regarding cable phone service. Nothing like a 911 crapshoot :)
Has anyone tried the G-S350SUA Esata enclosure by Macally? I'm thinking of trying them out, as really like the way they look, but I'd like some confirmation that they'll work with my DVRs.
Here's a link: http://www.macally.com/en/product/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=215
expected the HR20 to recognize the Seagate and format it. However, the HR20 didn't seem to recognize it, and went right on starting up, apparently on the internal drive. So, I repeated the above, switching ends on the Esata cable, with the same negative result. Then I unplugged the HR20's power, removed the Seagate completely, plugged the HR20's power in again, and it booted normally on (obviously) the internal drive. If anyone has any ideas why the HR20 doesn't recognize the Seagate, let me know. My best guess relates to another problem, which is that my HR20's HDMI output is not operational. I think that both the Esata and the HDMI jack have bad connections to the HR20's motherboard, but this is almost impossible to prove.
If you have any ideas, please post them here. As always, thank you in advance.
JT01
Are you sure it wasn't working? The start up time is the same as normal startup I believe.
Did you have any series links still showing?
__________________
Mike
I got no indication from the Seagate that it was being accessed - the light didn't flash, no noise from the drive running. I may try another cable, but others said they didn't have any problem with the cable supplied with the Seagate. Didn't check the series links - am I correct that they won't be copied from the original drive? Based on other messages, I expected some indication the Seagate was being formatted. Will try again with another cable and let you know. Thanks.
JT01
adeedew
04-23-08, 03:44 PM
Sorry for the newbie question as i've read most of the posts. So if i'm correct a esata drive (which directv CS reps have zero idea about!) will replace the internal drive of my HR20-700 and i have to boot off of the extrenal to watch stuff? It wont act as just a backup? I have my dvr maxed with recording right now. WIll i loose all of that? If it replaces the internal drive and you must just boot off the esata, does anything get recorded to the dvr drive anymore? Thanks much
lucky13
04-23-08, 04:12 PM
expected the HR20 to recognize the Seagate and format it. However, the HR20 didn't seem to recognize it, and went right on starting up, apparently on the internal drive. So, I repeated the above, switching ends on the Esata cable, with the same negative result. Then I unplugged the HR20's power, removed the Seagate completely, plugged the HR20's power in again, and it booted normally on (obviously) the internal drive. If anyone has any ideas why the HR20 doesn't recognize the Seagate, let me know. My best guess relates to another problem, which is that my HR20's HDMI output is not operational. I think that both the Esata and the HDMI jack have bad connections to the HR20's motherboard, but this is almost impossible to prove.
If you have any ideas, please post them here. As always, thank you in advance.
JT01
Are you sure it wasn't working? The start up time is the same as normal startup I believe.
Did you have any series links still showing?
__________________
Mike
I got no indication from the Seagate that it was being accessed - the light didn't flash, no noise from the drive running. I may try another cable, but others said they didn't have any problem with the cable supplied with the Seagate. Didn't check the series links - am I correct that they won't be copied from the original drive? Based on other messages, I expected some indication the Seagate was being formatted. Will try again with another cable and let you know. Thanks.
JT01
I've found it helps to let the external drive run for several minutes before powering up the dvr.
I have 5 HR2xs, each with an external drive:
1 500 GB Seagate
1 750 GB Seagate FAP
3 1TB WD drives with Kingwin enclosures
And, as long as we're on the subject, let me advocate again for a menu option to turn off the power. This would be a fourth option, in addition to Restart, Reset, Reformat. It's awkward to have to menu restart and yank the plug out (without distrubing the sometimes tenous eSATA cables).
lucky13
04-23-08, 04:15 PM
Sorry for the newbie question as i've read most of the posts. So if i'm correct a esata drive (which directv CS reps have zero idea about!) will replace the internal drive of my HR20-700 and i have to boot off of the extrenal to watch stuff? It wont act as just a backup? I have my dvr maxed with recording right now. WIll i loose all of that? If it replaces the internal drive and you must just boot off the esata, does anything get recorded to the dvr drive anymore? Thanks much
Yes.
The 2 drives do not (now) work in tandem.
Once the dvr recognizes that an external drive is connected, it will not use the internal drive. You will not be able to access recordings, season passes or the To Do list stored on the internal drive until you disconnect the external. The recording and data are not erased or lost--just inaccessible.
Yes.
The 2 drives do not (now) work in tandem.
Once the dvr recognizes that an external drive is connected, it will not use the internal drive. You will not be able to access recordings, season passes or the To Do list stored on the internal drive until you disconnect the external. The recording and data are not erased or lost--just inaccessible.
Thanks. I've added a couple of thoughts on recent posts regarding why some STBs can use external drives and some can't. If bored, pass on. :lol:
STBs are simply computers, and the apps that display/control the program guide or DVR are just programs written by people on a schedule. Often the features in a given software release are determined by managers who are rewarded by meeting deadlines. If the deadline can't be met with all the features proposed by software analysts, then management asks what features or bug fixes can't be axed without affecting core function. Then, chop.... :(
I'll warrant the analysts in charge of maintaining/enhancing the DVR application code, if they care about quality--and most do--want to enhance the single drive feature to include additional devices. And it will happen, because user complaints do generate more action from management than one might expect.
One day a manager will walk into a programmer's office (or call Jakarta) and ask "Why don't we support more than one drive??" The programmer will then proceed to bang his/her head on the desk for about 15 minutes, :nono2: then contact the appropriate system analyst to ensure that this feature is scheduled for the next release. :)
The probable reason why CrimeWarner's SA 8300HD DVR boxes access both the internal and external drives is that these DVR features were addressed while the program guide features languished. You might call it the luck of the draw.
As per the post reporting Customer Support ignorance regarding the external drive features: Customer Support *everywhere* are instructed to never provide support for something until management expressly allows them to do so. The general idea is that such a practice would lead to unlimited chasing of paths by limited support staff.
However, what about stuff that works (like eSata drives)? Why aren't they in the user manuals and on the approved customer support topics? Good question!
In this case, while the US Congress passed legislation for the FCC to require STB external drive and computer interface ports, the 2004 statutes do *not* tell STB providers how to implement these or how to support them. So, the STB providers (read: Large Corporations) will not spend money to provide any more STB enhancements than the laws mandate (that costs money). Well, isn't this against the "spirit" of the law entrusted to the FCC. Yep. But the Executive Branch has very little money for regulation these days. I'll leave that point for you to ponder.
This would all be very sad, except for the fact that--in this case--there is actual economic competition amongst STB providers. Nobody in this industry actually wants to lose customers (though the cablecos seem determined to try). Your complaints are the best way to influence change. And don't complain only to the Customer Support reps. Email your US Congresscritter and ask why the FCC isn't requiring the STB providers to fully support external hard disks--including documentation and customer support?).
I'll post the bill number for you later--Congresscritter staff types appreciate that.
BTW, my perspective comes from programming younameit for 28 years, and contracting with the federal government for far to many of them. :)
Regards...
Yes.
The 2 drives do not (now) work in tandem.
Once the dvr recognizes that an external drive is connected, it will not use the internal drive. You will not be able to access recordings, season passes or the To Do list stored on the internal drive until you disconnect the external. The recording and data are not erased or lost--just inaccessible.
I'll just add to this great answer that you access the recordings on the internal drive by turning everything off, disconnecting the external drive and rebooting...
so you can switch back and forth between the drives...
me? I recommend watching everything on the internal, connect the external and just stick with that until DirecTV adds support for both drives at the same time (hey, I can hope!) :D
adeedew
04-23-08, 08:22 PM
Thanks for the input. FYI to all. I picked up the WG Mybook 500GB external sata with the pny esata cable from the local best buy. That didn't work at all. I read about seagate. I got the 500GB free agent pro and got a dny esata cable and it works! Not sure if it was the drive or the cable but $50 more later, it seems to work.
Lord Vader
04-23-08, 08:24 PM
It was the Mybook probably. Those have a reputation of not working with DVRs.
adeedew
04-26-08, 01:11 PM
does the seagate have to stay on? The light is pretty bright and annoying, the mybook was all black. The on/off switch for seagate is difficult too, but so far so good, the set up works.
Has anyone tried the G-S350SUA Esata enclosure by Macally? I'm thinking of trying them out, as really like the way they look, but I'd like some confirmation that they'll work with my DVRs.
Here's a link: http://www.macally.com/en/product/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=215
I'm just talking to myself here, but the Macally G-S350SUA Esata enclosure with with a Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA hard drive works in a HR21-700.
Enclosure: Macally G-S350SUA
Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM
Cable: Esata cable included with drive enclosure.
DVR: HR21-700
Confirmed working.
:D
does the seagate have to stay on? The light is pretty bright and annoying, the mybook was all black. The on/off switch for seagate is difficult too, but so far so good, the set up works.
the external hard drive needs to stay on so you can record stuff to it...the drive also needs to be on BEFORE you turn on the HR20/21 so it is recognized...
just put black electrical tape over the light...
adeedew
05-08-08, 11:46 AM
the external hard drive needs to stay on so you can record stuff to it...the drive also needs to be on BEFORE you turn on the HR20/21 so it is recognized...
just put black electrical tape over the light...
Got all of this working for a few week now. Too many restarts, etc where i come home to my dvr working off the internal hard drive out of nowhere.The seagate is also annoying difficult to turn off by hand, you have to uplug the power. Regardless it's being returned today, too much restarting to get this to work not to mention each hr20 restart takes like 10 minutes
Got all of this working for a few week now. Too many restarts, etc where i come home to my dvr working off the internal hard drive out of nowhere.The seagate is also annoying difficult to turn off by hand, you have to uplug the power. Regardless it's being returned today, too much restarting to get this to work not to mention each hr20 restart takes like 10 minutes
The trick is to put the external drive on a UPS.
adeedew
05-09-08, 01:05 AM
The trick is to put the external drive on a UPS.
Did a search and can't find, what is UPS?
Did a search and can't find, what is UPS?
It is an "Uninterruptible Power Supply", and is a waste of money unless you live in an area where your power goes down constantly. A lot of people think that you get "purer" voltage from them, but that is a fallacy. All it is is a battery back up. If you want constant voltage at around the 117 VAC level, you need a constant voltage transformer. And they are expensive.
Why don't you send me a PM and perhaps I can help you get the thing working properly.
Rich
It was the Mybook probably. Those have a reputation of not working with DVRs.
The Mybooks will not work with a DVR. Even tho they have the eSATA connection they will NOT work with a DVR. WD makes a "DVR Expander" that works with DVRs.
The Seagate FAPs and the Cavalrys will work with HR20s and the Cavalrys will work with HR21s. I have never been able to get a Seagate FAP to work with an HR21-700. Don't know about the other HR21s, but the 700 will NOT work the FAP.
Rich
It is an "Interruptible Power Supply", and is a waste of money unless you live in an area where your power goes down constantly. A lot of people think that you get "purer" voltage from them, but that is a fallacy. All it is is a battery back up. If you want constant voltage at around the 117 VAC level, you need a constant voltage transformer. And they are expensive.
Actually, it's "Uninterruptible Power Supply", and when it comes to making your HR-2x work with an external drive, it is far from a waste of money.
The critical issue with the way the HRs mount the external drive is that the external drive must be spun up and fully live before you power on the HR-2x, otherwise, you'll get the symptom I was replying to; running off the internal drive.
If you put the external drive on a small, cheap UPS (or battery if you prefer), it will stay up and running even if the power flickers, keeping the HR from powering up before the external drive is ready for action.
For $25-$45, it's a cheap and simple way to avoid this problem. Go to Newegg.com and search for "DirectUPS DP400 400VA" for a cheap unit that'll do the job if all you plug in is your external drive.
cartrivision
05-09-08, 04:20 PM
It is an "Interruptible Power Supply", and is a waste of money unless you live in an area where your power goes down constantly. A lot of people think that you get "purer" voltage from them, but that is a fallacy. All it is is a battery back up. If you want constant voltage at around the 117 VAC level, you need a constant voltage transformer. And they are expensive.
Why don't you send me a PM and perhaps I can help you get the thing working properly.
Rich
This is very bad and incorrect information about what a UPS is good for with a DVR, especially in relation to the question that the reply was addressing. I would reccomend against PMimg the above person for any information related to using a UPS with your DVR. It is not a good idea to listen to and trust just one person's potentially bad advise.
A UPS is a very good thing to add to a HR20 with an external drive hooked up, and to add to one even if it doesn't have an external drive.
I would suggest that anyone interested in learning the benefits of a UPS ignore the above quoted bad information and instead search for one of the UPS related discussion threads in these forums where you can learn from a wide variety of DVR users what the various and real benefits of using a UPS are.
Just a simple search for “UPS” will yield lots of good information.
Actually, it's "Uninterruptible Power Supply"
Quite right, spelling mistake.
The critical issue with the way the HRs mount the external drive is that the external drive must be spun up and fully live before you power on the HR-2x, otherwise, you'll get the symptom I was replying to; running off the internal drive.
You're correct, but you don't need a UPS to do that. I've been running eSATAs since the eSATA was enabled and never use a UPS. And most of the time, you don't need to unplug the eSATA when rebooting. A simple 15 second hard reboot of the HR20/21 will suffice.
If you put the external drive on a small, cheap UPS (or battery if you prefer), it will stay up and running even if the power flickers, keeping the HR from powering up before the external drive is ready for action.
I really don't feel like starting a huge argument about UPS usage. The simple fact is that you don't need one. I have six 20/21s running and don't us a UPS on any of them or their attendant eSATAs.
For $25-$45, it's a cheap and simple way to avoid this problem. Go to Newegg.com and search for "DirectUPS DP400 400VA" for a cheap unit that'll do the job if all you plug in is your external drive.
Again, and its my opinion based on my experience, the UPS brings nothing to the table unless you live in an area where there are a great deal of power outages.
Rich
This is why I avoid the forum. Oddly, cartrivision and I usually agree, but obviously not on this issue.
This is very bad and incorrect information about what a UPS is good for with a DVR, especially in relation to the question that the reply was addressing. I would reccomend against PMimg the above person for any information related to using a UPS with your DVR. It is not a good idea to listen to and trust just one person's potentially bad advise.
A UPS is a very good thing to add to a HR20 with an external drive hooked up, and to add to one even if it doesn't have an external drive.
Why? What do you think it does? What next, the wonders of surge protectors?
I would suggest that anyone interested in learning the benefits of a UPS ignore the above quoted bad information and instead search for one of the UPS related discussion threads in these forums where you can learn from a wide variety of DVR users what the various and real benefits of using a UPS are.
Good idea. Get 50 different opinions from 50 different people who don't know what they are talking about. That shouldn't confuse him too much.
Rich
cartrivision
05-09-08, 07:51 PM
This is why I avoid the forum. Oddly, cartrivision and I usually agree, but obviously not on this issue.
What do you think [a UPS] does? What next, the wonders of surge protectors?
Nothing magical or amazing, but it prevents extended (10 minute) reboots in the event of short periods of voltage dips or power interruptions. A one second power interruption can mean missing 10 minutes of a recording, except not if you have your DVR plugged into even a very inexpensive UPS. To me and many people, the price of a low end UPS is worth the saving of just one important recording.
In addition, the person you were responding to was considering the advise to use a UPS to avoid problems that happen when using an external eSATA drive which manifest when both the DVR and eSATA drive are powered up at exactly the same time after a power interruption, which sometimes causes the DVR to fail to recognize and use the external disk. Avoiding that situation is a perfect application of a low end UPS and it has nothing to do with you pointing out that it takes a expensive voltage regulating unit to provide perfectly regulated power. That is not needed from a UPS for a DVR. What is needed is avoiding reboots caused by short power outages or power dips, and a cheap $30 UPS does that very well.
Good idea. Get 50 different opinions from 50 different people who don't know what they are talking about.
No. Read a variety of presented facts, information, opinions, and counterarguments, then take notice of any reasonable consensus, and then form your own conclusions. That's a much better idea instead of advising the guy to just PM you and get uncontested and potentially very bad information from just one person.
Schmedley
05-11-08, 08:59 PM
Quote:
Good idea. Get 50 different opinions from 50 different people who don't know what they are talking about.
Its hard to believe that some folks with expensive flat pannel TVs don't have a UPS! Just power off/on can sometimes really cause damage to any electronic device.
HofstraJet
05-25-08, 12:51 AM
Tiger Direct has the 750 GB FreeAgent Pro for $140.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3094181&CatId=2429#exchange_info
does using eSATA in a HR-21 disables the primary (internal) drive? or does it expand the capacity?
does using eSATA in a HR-21 disables the primary (internal) drive? or does it expand the capacity?
I'm assuming your referencing to an Esata external hard drive. If so, it disables the internal hard drive and uses the external drive only when the external is connected. You can however switch back and forth between the two to watch recordings on either hard drive.
First question: Why isn't this in the release notes?
eSATA right now is an unsupported and undocumented add-on right now.
Think of similar to Microsofts Power Tools.... DirecTV has enabled the eSATA port, but it is not an official feature of the box.
Here are the details:
eSATA is a complete replacement for the internal drive. By that I mean, the system will only use 1 drive at a time. So if you connect an eSATA drive, it will not use the internal drive
eSATA has only had minimal testing with eSATA devices out there. DirecTV did not test an extensive list of eSATA drives and enclosures to see what will work and what won't
When you connected an eSATA drive, you need to do so when the unit is powered off (UNPLUGGED). When starting up, the HR20 will detect the eSATA drive, format as necessary, and then use that drive only. Edited from original post
After initilization, the unit will be blank... you will have to re-enter your SL, favorites, ect.....
DirecTV will NOT increase their designed usage space for recordings. (these numbers are estimates)If if you add a 500gb drive; 400gb will be for user space, 100gb for DirecTV. If you had 21TB; 20,900gb for user space, 100gb for DirecTV Edited from original post
Recordings are TIED to the unit that it was connected to. So you can't record on an eSATA drive on one HR20 and take it to another
Future software updates may update the file structure on the hard drive, so it is possible that your internal drive (over a long period of time) will be out of sync with the software version on the flash chip. If this does occur (file structure change), and you need to go back to the internal drive, you will need to do a format of the original hard drive (there is a method to do it from the front panel)
Right now... eSATA is to be used at User's Risk. DirecTV CSR are not going to get training on the eSATA connections until it becomes and official features
Right now... there is no method to move recordings from the internal drive to an external drive... however, they are investigating to possible to do this with the initial format of the drive on startup (clone the drive instead of just a blank format), but no ETA on when/if it will be available.
Those are the details I have on the eSATA connection.
DirecTV has enabled this feature for the "techies" and those that really want the larger storage options. At a later time, they will re-visit the eSATA features, however this was a "quick hit". Most of the other ideas that we have thrown around here on the forums (using it as an archive drive, expanding the storage ... using more then one drive, using it on multiple systems, ect....) Will take a while to code... and they have other items (like OTA, Networking, Dual Buffers) higher in the priority list.
Note: The added drive needs to be larger then 300gb
When you say 400GB for user space and 100GB for Directv - what does that mean? I basically am looking for adding an external hard drive so that I can record more shows (Std and HD) however if getting a 500GB drive still only gives me 100GB recording space -whats the point? Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote.
Also - can you send a website on where to get these external hard drives....
Thanks in advance for your response.....
"DirecTV will NOT increase their designed usage space for recordings. (these numbers are estimates)If if you add a 500gb drive; 400gb will be for user space, 100gb for DirecTV. If you had 21TB; 20,900gb for user space, 100gb for DirecTV Edited from original post"
Michael D'Angelo
06-02-08, 08:55 PM
When you say 400GB for user space and 100GB for Directv - what does that mean? I basically am looking for adding an external hard drive so that I can record more shows (Std and HD) however if getting a 500GB drive still only gives me 100GB recording space -whats the point? Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote.
Also - can you send a website on where to get these external hard drives....
Thanks in advance for your response.....
"DirecTV will NOT increase their designed usage space for recordings. (these numbers are estimates)If if you add a 500gb drive; 400gb will be for user space, 100gb for DirecTV. If you had 21TB; 20,900gb for user space, 100gb for DirecTV Edited from original post"
Whatever size hard you use you will lose 100GB that is reserved by DIRECTV. It is the same way on the internal drive. The HD DVR's have a 320GB but you only have 220GB of recording space.
Jim, I bought the same drive for $177 today too.
Here is the link for $50 off but you have to sign up for another credit card which i will cancel after I send them $177.
http://www.buy.com/corp/revolution_offer.asp
SKU DESCRIPTION QTY UNIT PRICE ITEM TOTAL
205986373 Cavalry 1TB (Single Disk) Dual Interface (USB 2.0 & eSATA) External Hard Drive 1 $227.99 $227.99
take $50 OFF the purchase of $51 when you use your RevolutionCard 1 $-50.00 $-50.00
Shipping & Handling: $0
Tax: $0
SubTotal: $177.99
Will this work with my HR-21?
That eSATA will not work. You need a Cavalry. Here is a link:
Can't get link to work. Go to Costco.com and go to computers and then storage and you will see the Cavalry eSATA 750. That will work on the 21.
Don't even waste your time with the Seagate. Will not work. Will work with the 20s tho.
Rich
Do I have to order this online from Costco or do they normally have them in stock?
Also - I am assuming the esata cable comes with this so I dont need to get it separately - right?
Thanks!
mgroups
06-09-08, 09:28 PM
Has anyone else noticed increased problems with freezing and reboots as their external drive fills up, particularly when the free space drops below about 30%? I use a Seagate FA 750 GB.
Would a Vox Digital 500GB USB/eSATA Hard Drive work?
http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0283335
Also, I have an HR21-100; would it be OK to disconnect the power to the internal drive to use the external one?
davemayo
06-10-08, 04:05 PM
Has anyone else noticed increased problems with freezing and reboots as their external drive fills up, particularly when the free space drops below about 30%? I use a Seagate FA 750 GB.
I'm using an FA 750 GB and have had it below 30% several times. I have not seen any increased problems like you describe (in fact, I don't ever see these problems). I have HR20-100s.
curbside
06-14-08, 09:59 AM
I received an email from Costco. They have an AcomData PureDrive 1TB External HD with USB 2.0 and eSATA connectivity for only $179.99. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with these drives.
Link: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11272708&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US
I did have a Calvary 750 gb hooked up to my HR20-100 at one time but the playback was jerky so I disconnected it and just use it for backup on my PC now.
Thanks
-Doug
oenophile
06-15-08, 11:44 AM
Thought folks might appreciate me posting this as an FYI. I've had a 1 TB Thecus N2050 eSATA RAID 0 w/2 WD Caviar SE16 500GB setup for about 15 months. It died last week. It worked great while it lasted (no errors, etc). But one of the two drives died and, as you probably know, when you're using RAID 0, if one drive dies, the whole array dies.
I lost about 70% of a TB of shows. (A fair amount.) :< (However, my wife and I seem....strangely....liberated by this. :>)
So, why did it die?
I'm not sure--but it always did run very hot. Only one of the drives died, and the enclosure appears fine. My guess is that the enclosure kept the temp too hot--it really is a cheap enclosure--and the drives just couldn't handle it.
Rather than try to replace the drive and start over I've gone out and bought a Cavalry CADA CADA002SA2-B 2TB 7200 RPM External Hard Drive -- running it in RAID 1 (safe/mirrored) setup. I bought it based on recommendations on this site (which said it was quiet and worked easily). Best part about it is that if one drive dies, the other should continue to work and I can replace the defective one.
So far I'm satisfied but not overjoyed with the Cavarly. It is a bit quieter with the fan than the Thecus (the fan is bigger and appears to cool it better). But, the drives themselves are louder -- I can hear them reading/writing in a quiet room. It isn't as quiet as the reviews here seem to indicate. It isn't loud by any stretch, but you can definitely hear it in a quiet room.
I also had some issues configuring it for RAID 1 -- the dial on the back is not easy to use (bad design) and had to tweak it using USB cable and the software (which didn't work well either). But I did get it working.
I'll post back with any additional info I get about the Thecus or the Cavarly. I'm going to cross post this in the other eSATA thread to ensure folks see it who are thinking about enclosures. Happy to answer any questions too.
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