eSATA - Has been enabled, but....

[rcoleman111]

Any form of raid 0 or 1 cuts disk space by one half.

RAID 1 is mirroring (all data is written to each drive simultaneosly) and therefore the 1 terabyte you have is 500 GB. The you have less the 50Gb-100GB the HR20 needs so your terebyte has only netted you 100GB compared to the 300GB in the HR20.

RAID 0 is stripping where data is written across the 2 drives and each drive contains the information required to reconstruct a failed drive. You got it - RAID 0 takes 1/2 the installed disk space for stripping therefore giving you 500GB in your configuration. Less what the HR20 needs and you have about 400GB usable.

The Thecus 2050 does not support JBOD (just a bunch of disks). If it did then you truely would have 1 TB of disk space usable.

I went with 750GB drives mirrored (Raid 1) so I netted 350GB more than the Hr20 (750GB less 100GB for HR2=650GB).

If you want 100% usable, you need to find a JBOD eSATA enclosure.

Regards,

You are incorrect about RAID 0. If you use two 500GB disks in a RAID 0 array, you will have 1TB of total capacity. There is no loss of capacity for striping and there is no reconstruction of a failed drive. If you lose one drive, you lose the contents of both.

[swandersen]

You are incorrect about RAID 0. If you use two 500GB disks in a RAID 0 array, you will have 1TB of total capacity. There is no loss of capacity for striping and there is no reconstruction of a failed drive. If you lose one drive, you lose the contents of both.

:blackeye:

The crow is very good here. I was so use to raid 5 in the data center I mixed them up. I edited my original post.

Thanks, Me bad.

[Tom Robertson]

:blackeye:

The crow is very good here.

Thanks, Me bad.

nah, you were just blinded by the space reserved by the HR20 for VOD, housekeeping, and mysterious Directv "stuff" :).

Or would you believe you were up too late celebrating yesterday's football? :)

aha, would you believe up too late downloading 11b? :)

Cheers,
Tom

[swandersen]

:lol: nah, you were just blinded by the space reserved by the HR20 for VOD, housekeeping, and mysterious Directv "stuff" :).

Or would you believe you were up too late celebrating yesterday's football? :)

aha, would you believe up too late downloading 11b? :)

Cheers,
Tom

All of the above.

[schult]

Ok, well I ordered the H20 and now I have been searching for the best way to upgrade the storage. I have read this thread a few times and I am trying to finalize my options, one requirement is reliability as my wife does not like to loose her shows (neither do I, but I don't have to hear myself complain as much). Here is what I am down to:

Option 1:
Thecus N2050UD $149 @ newegg
2x750 GB Seagate HD @ $339 each
Configure in Raid 1

Total (from previous posts) 125 hrs of MPEG4 vs 50 hrs stock for $827

Option 2:
Thecus N4100B $429 @ newegg
4x 320 GB Samsung HD @ $90 each
Configure in Raid 5 - based on some on-line calculators, Raid 5 yields 3/4 of the total capacity, in this case 960 GB
Total (from previous posts) 160 hrs of MPEG4 vs 50 hrs stock for $789

However, there is one little problem the 4100B does not have an eSATA port only network connectivity, I looked around for a 4 bay RAID5 device and have yet to find one that is reasonably priced, just wish the 4100B had that built in.

Option 2 seems like the best option for lowest cost per MB with data redundancy, but seems more complex.

Any thoughts or experience with using RAID 5 (and source of RAID 5 enclosure) set-up with the H20?

[YankeeFan]

Option 1:
Thecus N2050UD $149 @ newegg
2x750 GB Seagate HD @ $339 each
Configure in Raid 1



This is exactly the setup I have (except I used 2x500 GB Seagate HD's). Works great. One thing you might want to research, I don't know if the Thecus N2050 will support 750GB drives (I think the max is 500GB).

[yeungp]

This is exactly the setup I have (except I used 2x500 GB Seagate HD's). Works great. One thing you might want to research, I don't know if the Thecus N2050 will support 750GB drives (I think the max is 500GB).

swanderson reported using the thecus n2050 with 750GB drives.

[AlbertZeroK]

swanderson reported using the thecus n2050 with 750GB drives.

Their website says 750g drives work too... But Newegg's doesn't.

[taw123]

You are incorrect about RAID 0. If you use two 500GB disks in a RAID 0 array, you will have 1TB of total capacity. There is no loss of capacity for striping and there is no reconstruction of a failed drive. If you lose one drive, you lose the contents of both.

What the original poster was probably talking about is RAID 5. RAID 5 scatters parity data across all drive members. I am going to be doing some testing with an eSATA array that suports this. Specificaly RAID 5 with a hot spair. The idea would be that if a drive memeber fails that the array will rebuild in background. The only question will be what kind of SUSTAINED and burst thruput the DVR requires. Can one of our lurking Engineers (DTV) give us some real hints. I wil post my results. I am going to start testing with the MR5CT1. GRUBLE can't post url...... www(dot)sansdigital(dot)com(slash)MR5CT1(dot)html

I am going to put 5 750's in 4 active, 1 hot spare. This should yield about 1.5TB of formated capacity (given the parity data and HS).

Yes, I am a Storage Engineer.....

[swandersen]

What the original poster was probably talking about is RAID 5. RAID 5 scatters parity data across all drive members. I am going to be doing some testing with an eSATA array that suports this. Specificaly RAID 5 with a hot spair. The idea would be that if a drive memeber fails that the array will rebuild in background. The only question will be what kind of SUSTAINED and burst thruput the DVR requires. Can one of our lurking Engineers (DTV) give us some real hints. I wil post my results. I am going to start testing with the MR5CT1. GRUBLE can't post url...... www(dot)sansdigital(dot)com(slash)MR5CT1(dot)html

I am going to put 5 750's in 4 active, 1 hot spare. This should yield about 1.5TB of formated capacity (given the parity data and HS).

Yes, I am a Storage Engineer.....

Yes I was referencing raid 5 - Me Bad - And I agree with your comments

[swandersen]

Ok, well I ordered the H20 and now I have been searching for the best way to upgrade the storage. I have read this thread a few times and I am trying to finalize my options, one requirement is reliability as my wife does not like to loose her shows (neither do I, but I don't have to hear myself complain as much). Here is what I am down to:

Option 1:
Thecus N2050UD $149 @ newegg
2x750 GB Seagate HD @ $339 each
Configure in Raid 1

Total (from previous posts) 125 hrs of MPEG4 vs 50 hrs stock for $827

Option 2:
Thecus N4100B $429 @ newegg
4x 320 GB Samsung HD @ $90 each
Configure in Raid 5 - based on some on-line calculators, Raid 5 yields 3/4 of the total capacity, in this case 960 GB
Total (from previous posts) 160 hrs of MPEG4 vs 50 hrs stock for $789

However, there is one little problem the 4100B does not have an eSATA port only network connectivity, I looked around for a 4 bay RAID5 device and have yet to find one that is reasonably priced, just wish the 4100B had that built in.

Option 2 seems like the best option for lowest cost per MB with data redundancy, but seems more complex.

Any thoughts or experience with using RAID 5 (and source of RAID 5 enclosure) set-up with the H20?

I am now config'ed with two 750GB Seagates Raid 0 now and the Thecus 2050 - 1.5TB storage - Works great and is a slim unit with complimenting blue lights with the HR20.

I would be concerned about the power requirements if you have a single outlet for your configuration .... and noise .. and ergonomics, The 2050 sits nicely next to the HR20. Then there is heat and related with a bigger unit - its kinda bulky. Plus I think no SATA on 4100B is a non-starter for HR20. Not sure how to turn a NAS into a SATA connection to HR20 - sounds impossible and if possible could cause performance issues as even if you have GB networking the 2050 is 3GB transfer rate. If your network is 100MB you are toast - even though I think the network to HR20 is impossible.

[swandersen]

What the original poster was probably talking about is RAID 5. RAID 5 scatters parity data across all drive members. I am going to be doing some testing with an eSATA array that suports this. Specificaly RAID 5 with a hot spair. The idea would be that if a drive memeber fails that the array will rebuild in background. The only question will be what kind of SUSTAINED and burst thruput the DVR requires. Can one of our lurking Engineers (DTV) give us some real hints. I wil post my results. I am going to start testing with the MR5CT1. GRUBLE can't post url...... www(dot)sansdigital(dot)com(slash)MR5CT1(dot)html

I am going to put 5 750's in 4 active, 1 hot spare. This should yield about 1.5TB of formated capacity (given the parity data and HS).

Yes, I am a Storage Engineer.....

That's a lot of cash for 1.5 TB -- whilst interesting -- you can get 1.5TB for 30% of that price with the 2050 and 2 750GB Seagates.

[P Smith]

<skip>
I am going to put 5 750's in 4 active, 1 hot spare. This should yield about 1.5TB of formated capacity (given the parity data and HS).

Yes, I am a Storage Engineer.....

Nay, almost 2 times more ;) ; look (4-1)*750 = 2.25 GB !

[swandersen]

Nay, almost 2 times more ;) ; look (4-1)*750 = 2.25 GB !

That's what I calculated too ... but I have been wrong once this week which is my limit.

[schult]

I am now config'ed with two 750GB Seagates Raid 0 now and the Thecus 2050 - 1.5TB storage - Works great and is a slim unit with complimenting blue lights with the HR20.

I would be concerned about the power requirements if you have a single outlet for your configuration .... and noise .. and ergonomics, The 2050 sits nicely next to the HR20. Then there is heat and related with a bigger unit - its kinda bulky. Plus I think no SATA on 4100B is a non-starter for HR20. Not sure how to turn a NAS into a SATA connection to HR20 - sounds impossible and if possible could cause performance issues as even if you have GB networking the 2050 is 3GB transfer rate. If your network is 100MB you are toast - even though I think the network to HR20 is impossible.

Ok, seems like RAID 5 enclosure with eSATA for $400-500 is out, have done more research (and read some posts here) since and seems like $1100 is the bottom pricepoint for a low end RAID 5 box. SANS DIGITAL MR5CT2 Mobile RAID Subsystem ($1179 @ newegg). The problem is I am looking for space and reliability.

Currently I am looking at:
SANS DIGITAL MR5CT2 Mobile RAID Subsystem $1179
5 - 400GB drives - $109 each

Should yield 1.6 TB in RAID 5 for ~$1700 with complete reliability (provided more than 1 drive doesn't fail at the same time). This should yield ~266 hrs of MPEG4 HD.

I could go a little smaller on the hard drives and make it slightly cheaper, but the big price is the RAID enclosure. Now let's see what the testing by taw123 yields on if RAID 5 can handle the requirements for 2 HD streams...

BTW, power requirements is 200W, much less than most computers and less than my 50" plasma pulls.

[Tom Robertson]

Ok, seems like RAID 5 enclosure with eSATA for $400-500 is out, have done more research (and read some posts here) since and seems like $1100 is the bottom pricepoint for a low end RAID 5 box. SANS DIGITAL MR5CT2 Mobile RAID Subsystem ($1179 @ newegg). The problem is I am looking for space and reliability.

Currently I am looking at:
SANS DIGITAL MR5CT2 Mobile RAID Subsystem $1179
5 - 400GB drives - $109 each

Should yield 1.6 TB in RAID 5 for ~$1700 with complete reliability (provided more than 1 drive doesn't fail at the same time). This should yield ~266 hrs of MPEG4 HD.

I could go a little smaller on the hard drives and make it slightly cheaper, but the big price is the RAID enclosure. Now let's see what the testing by taw123 yields on if RAID 5 can handle the requirements for 2 HD streams...

BTW, power requirements is 200W, much less than most computers and less than my 50" plasma pulls.

Welcome to the forums! :welcome_s

This is awesome homework. I suspect RAID 5 will drop soon. So here's looking forward to lots of recordings :)

Cheers,
Tom

[taw123]

Nay, almost 2 times more ;) ; look (4-1)*750 = 2.25 GB !

As I said I am a storage engineer not a math-magician. Actually you won't get a FULL 4 drives of storage if you are doing RAID 5. Remember you are redundantly storing the data across all the drive members in the LUN set (parity data). Worst case estimation is to take 1 drive out of a 6 or 7 drive set. I always take 1 drive as an estimate when I budget storage. This way you know that you will have as much as you need and VERY likely more storage.

So to call out the math. 3/4 of a TB (750G hds) * 3 "data" drives = 6/4TB (1.5TB). One drive (the equivalent of) is taken with the parity data, and on drive is idled as the hot spare.

Yes this is a VERY expensive way to do this, but bear in mind many of the low end dries we are talking about using here are NOT designed for non-stop operation (no matter how cool you keep the enclosure). I work on mission and biz critical data systems (no one's tv watching shouldn't be considered this, but mine is :lol: ), so I tend to over build for reliability.

[rcoleman111]

Nay, almost 2 times more ;) ; look (4-1)*750 = 2.25 GB !


Not sure how he arrived at 1.5TB, but your calculation is correct - four 750GB disks in the array minus the capacity of one disk for parity. That's 2.25GB.

[P Smith]

Eyah :), tell me that after being 20+ years in IT.

[schult]

As I said I am a storage engineer not a math-magician. Actually you won't get a FULL 4 drives of storage if you are doing RAID 5. Remember you are redundantly storing the data across all the drive members in the LUN set (parity data). Worst case estimation is to take 1 drive out of a 6 or 7 drive set. I always take 1 drive as an estimate when I budget storage. This way you know that you will have as much as you need and VERY likely more storage.

So to call out the math. 3/4 of a TB (750G hds) * 3 "data" drives = 6/4TB (1.5TB). One drive (the equivalent of) is taken with the parity data, and on drive is idled as the hot spare.

Yes this is a VERY expensive way to do this, but bear in mind many of the low end dries we are talking about using here are NOT designed for non-stop operation (no matter how cool you keep the enclosure). I work on mission and biz critical data systems (no one's tv watching shouldn't be considered this, but mine is :lol: ), so I tend to over build for reliability.


Equation was right but the math was wrong,

Correction: 3/4 of a TB (750G hds) * 3 "data" drives = 9/4TB (2.25TB) as everyone else has been getting. not the 6/4TB as in the original post.

[texboy]

I have 2 500gb esata drives. How much recording time will I have?

[mike2859]

I have a Maxtor MXT 7H500F0 500GB SATAm in a single enclosure, Aluminum SATA to ESATA / USB 2.0 Enclosure W/ Fan, it uses a JMicron JM20336,.
So far the HR20 does not rercognise this setup.
Any help would be appreciated.

MiamiMike

[hdtvfan0001]

I have a Maxtor MXT 7H500F0 500GB SATAm in a single enclosure, Aluminum SATA to ESATA / USB 2.0 Enclosure W/ Fan, it uses a JMicron JM20336,.
So far the HR20 does not rercognise this setup.
Any help would be appreciated.

MiamiMike
Once you have fully powered down your HR20 (unplug), did then connect up and power up the Sata drive, followed by powering up the HR20?

If it still doesn't see it, try the "reboot with reformat" steps with all of that hookup still in place.

[Sixto]

Reverted my Series3 back to 250GB last night and removed the Seagate DB35 750GB drive.

Now have Rosewill RX353-S enclosure, Seagate DB35 750GB drive, and eSATA cable. Going to play with this tonight with HR20.

1) Must I restrict the speed to 1.5Gbs? DB35 750GB when in Series3 ran at 3.0gbs. I'd need to add jumper to restrict to 1.5gbs.

2) Seems like everyone has been easily able to go back to internal drive by just removing the eSATA drive. Any issues ever going back to either the internal or external?

3) Being that this new 750GB drive will be the production drive forever, any thoughts that when the eSATA support becomes "official" that we'd ever lose anything?

Thanks!

[Sixto]

Reverted my Series3 back to 250GB last night and removed the Seagate DB35 750GB drive.

Now have Rosewill RX353-S enclosure, Seagate DB35 750GB drive, and eSATA cable. Going to play with this tonight with HR20.

1) Must I restrict the speed to 1.5Gbs? DB35 750GB when in Series3 ran at 3.0gbs. I'd need to add jumper to restrict to 1.5gbs.

2) Seems like everyone has been easily able to go back to internal drive by just removing the eSATA drive. Any issues ever going back to either the internal or external?

3) Being that this new 750GB drive will be the production drive forever, any thoughts that when the eSATA support becomes "official" that we'd ever lose anything?

Thanks!Answered myself questions 1 and 2.

3.0gbs didn't work, switched to 1.5gbs and works fine.

Have been able to go back-and-forth easily between internal and external.

DB35 750GB now working just fine thru eSATA since last night.

[gantte]

Just a data point, may not be that interesting, but since I could not find it
in this quite long thread...

I bought a Seagate 500GB eSATA external drive.

Shutdown HR-20, then unplugged power cable.
Cabled up new Seagate, both power and eSATA cable into
back of HR-20.

Powered on Seagate disk with external button. Disk did not spin up.

Plugged in HR-20 power cable and disk in Seagate came alive.

Initially the HR-20 light flickered a bit and then went dark after about 10 seconds.
Weird (I thought)

I pushed the power button the HR-20, nothing.
Pushed it again, nothing.

Tried using power on with remote, nothing.
Pushed power button on HR-20 one more time, power light came on, and
the Record light, came on bright red. Not sure if that was good or bad,
but I let it run. In about 30 secs, the center lights (the eye) starting spinning
blue. All the other lights went out.

I figured, well, it must be formatting. I let it run about 45 minutes and it
spun and spun and spun. All this time, my TV had no signal. Finally, I got
impatient and pressed the power on my remote and the HR-20 came on, I got my
signal back and the center blue eye stopped spinning.

I checked my playlist and as expected it was empty, 100% space available.
As was all my pre-recorded "season passes" (I know they don't call'em
Season Passes anymore, but that's what I call'em).

Oddly, it appears my saved Guide data also got lost.... I tried setting up a show
that comes on during the week (Monday would be the next episode) and it wasn't in the guide yet.... I guess that's what the 100GB of D* saved space is for?

Anyway... The part I was looking for, was if anyone knew how long it took to
format the disk, since there doesn't seem to be any visual indicators when
I first hooked up the new out of the carton Seagate 500 eSATA unit.

I haven't tried recording anything yet, but it does seem to work just fine.

[Cyrus]

Anyway... The part I was looking for, was if anyone knew how long it took to
format the disk, since there doesn't seem to be any visual indicators when
I first hooked up the new out of the carton Seagate 500 eSATA unit.

There is a visual indicator. The record button goes red during boot when the disk is reformatted (as happened with your drive). For internal drive it seems to take around 10 to 15 seconds. For external drives it's probably a little more (depending on the size).

[66stang351]

Oddly, it appears my saved Guide data also got lost.... I tried setting up a show
that comes on during the week (Monday would be the next episode) and it wasn't in the guide yet.... I guess that's what the 100GB of D* saved space is for?


There is no saved guide data on the hard drive. Whenever the HR-20 is reset it must rebuild the guide.

[bllreed]

I added a 500 GB SATAII to my HR-20, it went very smoothly. Much better that
anything I've ever done with my TIVOs. It did wipe the internal though so you
definitely start out with a blank slate. Fortunately I didn't have anything recorded
that I really wanted so I figure the trade off was a good one from my perspective.
I did read somewhere that you can use a 5 drive RAID enclosure, get 5 - 750 GB
SATA drives and setup a RAID 5 array on a Windows machine then move the array
to the HR-20 and when you plug it in you'll have 3.7 TBs, which should last anyone
a few days if not months :-) As for my setup I've been recording for about a month
and haven't gotten to 20% of capacity so we'll see. As far as powering down the
internal drive one would have to open the box, something I'm not willing to do
while it's still under warranty, more or less.

[Cyrus]

It did wipe the internal though so you
definitely start out with a blank slate. Fortunately I didn't have anything recorded
that I really wanted so I figure the trade off was a good one from my perspective.

It doesn't actually wipe the contents of the internal drive. If you disconnect the external drive and reboot hr20 you will see the recordings that are on the internal drive again.

[RedbirdLarry]

My esata with a Rosewill esata adapter and a 750gb drive has been working for almost two months now. It quit working yesterday about the same time as the ox11b update came in. Maybe a co-incidence in timing. The HR20 boots up to internal drive no matter what I do. The external drive activity light ccomes on part way through the boot then stays on. I removed the drive from the enclosure and put it in a computer and it had 3 partitions on it that appeared to be in tact. I could not figure out how to get the hr20 to reformat the drive so I removed all partitions to make it look like a new drive. I put a windows partition on it and formatted it, copied files back and forth to test the drive, then removed the partitions again. The I put it back in the enclosure and hooed up to the HR20. Same thing happens. Activity light comes on when the boot is almost done then just starys on. The hr20 takes longer than usual to boot, and then when booted up is on the internal drive again. Anyone have any idea what may have happened to me? Did my esata enclosure go bad?

[swandersen]

My esata with a Rosewill esata adapter and a 750gb drive has been working for almost two months now. It quit working yesterday about the same time as the ox11b update came in. Maybe a co-incidence in timing. The HR20 boots up to internal drive no matter what I do. The external drive activity light ccomes on part way through the boot then stays on. I removed the drive from the enclosure and put it in a computer and it had 3 partitions on it that appeared to be in tact. I could not figure out how to get the hr20 to reformat the drive so I removed all partitions to make it look like a new drive. I put a windows partition on it and formatted it, copied files back and forth to test the drive, then removed the partitions again. The I put it back in the enclosure and hooed up to the HR20. Same thing happens. Activity light comes on when the boot is almost done then just starys on. The hr20 takes longer than usual to boot, and then when booted up is on the internal drive again. Anyone have any idea what may have happened to me? Did my esata enclosure go bad?

Sounds like it. I would be concerned that once you put it into your PC and formatted under Windows the HR20 Linux varient may see it as a "illegal" drive and do nothing with it. Better approach would be to get a eSATA card for PC and use the enclosure and CD that came with the drive - Seagate I presume - and format it natively without regard to OS type.

[gantte]

It quit working yesterday about the same time as the ox11b update came in. Maybe a co-incidence in timing.

Not sure if this helps, but I bought a Seagate eSATA 500 GB single disk unit this past
Saturday. I connected it up and it's working flawlessly. The next day (yesterday,
Sunday jan 27th), I downloaded and forced the 0x11f update.

My eSATA is still working perfectly with the update.

So... the update did not "foo the pooch" for me at least.

Here's a thought... why not do the RBR and 02468 update NOW and go back to
the previous release today to see if your disk works with the older release.

There will be another opportunity tonight to go back to 0x11f and you can revert back then if you want. That way, you can see if the release was what foo'd your eSATA or not.

Good luck.

[RedbirdLarry]

Thanks for your reply and the one just before that. I have determined that my rosewill external enclosure has gone bad. LAsted just under two months. I choose it because it had a cooling fan and I was habing trouble finding any others that had a fan.

Your suggestions were good. I already did the forced update and reformatted the internal drive even with the external hooked up int formatted the internal. At that point I also did a new download of the software. Internal is working great. I got another adapter and hooked my original drive and it also works now. so the drive is fgood and the hr20 is good, was the rosewill adapter that broke.

Thanks again. Larry


Not sure if this helps, but I bought a Seagate eSATA 500 GB single disk unit this past
Saturday. I connected it up and it's working flawlessly. The next day (yesterday,
Sunday jan 27th), I downloaded and forced the 0x11f update.

My eSATA is still working perfectly with the update.

So... the update did not "foo the pooch" for me at least.

Here's a thought... why not do the RBR and 02468 update NOW and go back to
the previous release today to see if your disk works with the older release.

There will be another opportunity tonight to go back to 0x11f and you can revert back then if you want. That way, you can see if the release was what foo'd your eSATA or not.

Good luck.

[RedbirdLarry]

Due to the drive enclosure failure I was using a different drive temporarily and have shows on that drive I can watch but irt is inconvenient for my family. Is there a way to copy shows from one drive to another using a computer?

[swandersen]

Due to the drive enclosure failure I was using a different drive temporarily and have shows on that drive I can watch but irt is inconvenient for my family. Is there a way to copy shows from one drive to another using a computer?

You try try Norton ghost or similar as it does bit for bit transfer while keeping uniqueness of drive payout and content. You would have to have a drive to drive move or send conents to another location, remove temp drive and restore. Similar size I think is key - barring the unknown.

Scott

[RedbirdLarry]

I thought of that but the problem is I don't want to erase the content on the destination drive. I have two drives both with shows stored on them. I want to copy some or all of the shows from the one drive to the other drive without destroying the shows already on that 2nd drive. I read something in a previous post about not being able to move drives between hr20's because of the decoder. I don't think that wil be an issue for what I want to do because the 2nd drive will be going on the same hr20 not a different one.

I put my working drive back in a windows comptuer just to see what the partitions looked like. I was surprised to see the first parition said it was ntfs. then there were two unkown partitions that I assume are linux based raw data. The 2nd unkown partition is the big one where the shows are stored. I don't currently have a linux based computer to play with it. If I knew it was possbile I would consider putting one together just to play with this and see if I can move those shows. I know, Probably less effort to wait for them to come on reruns and record them again but I like to play with things.


You try try Norton ghost or similar as it does bit for bit transfer while keeping uniqueness of drive payout and content. You would have to have a drive to drive move or send conents to another location, remove temp drive and restore. Similar size I think is key - barring the unknown.

Scott

[P Smith]

You don't need special Linux PC - use your existing Windows machine with those Linux CD variants what running from CD without installing onto disks,

[FirkinBucky]

Something is wrong, but I'm not sure what--hopefully someone here can help.

I have two 500 WD drives in the Thecus enclosure. I've gotten it to work for a few hours at a time, but I soon encounter one of two problems. The first is when the orange activity light starts to glow constantly and the picture will freeze up and require a RBR. When I do this, it often reverts back to the internal drive or it shows the second drive but it has no functionality.

The other problem is that the orange activity light simply stops blinking altogether--and the unit stops recording. It will not pause live TV nor will it allow me to play a recording. If I select a recording for playback, it will ask me if I want to delete it. It seems that the connection between the HR20 and the enclosure was dropped. When I RBR, it will occasionally get me back to the second drive, but more often than not--it goes back to the first.

There was one other instance where, when playing back the beginning of a recording of a show (OTA) that had not yet finished recording, the recording would start and stop about every second, with almost no audio. It was a a very consistent pace--it would play for about two seconds and pause for one--very strange.

I'm at a loss. This is actually the second enclosure I've had. Does this sound like a problem with the drives? If the answer is yes, how do I test them? I've installed the ESATA card on my computer, but wouldn't really know what to do in order to test the drives.

If anyone can give me help that could get this thing working, I'll give you one of my children.

[P Smith]

Only if you'll take my wife ;).

[Renomik]

i'm sorry to be dense but if i were to buy a thecus 2050 and 2 seagate 320gb raid 0 drives, what gb storage would that give me vs hr-20 internal capacity? i'm not good at math...

[P Smith]

640 GB

[66stang351]

i'm sorry to be dense but if i were to buy a thecus 2050 and 2 seagate 320gb raid 0 drives, what gb storage would that give me vs hr-20 internal capacity? i'm not good at math...

540 usable vs 200 so 2.7 times the space.

[swandersen]

Something is wrong, but I'm not sure what--hopefully someone here can help.

I have two 500 WD drives in the Thecus enclosure. I've gotten it to work for a few hours at a time, but I soon encounter one of two problems. The first is when the orange activity light starts to glow constantly and the picture will freeze up and require a RBR. When I do this, it often reverts back to the internal drive or it shows the second drive but it has no functionality.

The other problem is that the orange activity light simply stops blinking altogether--and the unit stops recording. It will not pause live TV nor will it allow me to play a recording. If I select a recording for playback, it will ask me if I want to delete it. It seems that the connection between the HR20 and the enclosure was dropped. When I RBR, it will occasionally get me back to the second drive, but more often than not--it goes back to the first.

There was one other instance where, when playing back the beginning of a recording of a show (OTA) that had not yet finished recording, the recording would start and stop about every second, with almost no audio. It was a a very consistent pace--it would play for about two seconds and pause for one--very strange.

I'm at a loss. This is actually the second enclosure I've had. Does this sound like a problem with the drives? If the answer is yes, how do I test them? I've installed the ESATA card on my computer, but wouldn't really know what to do in order to test the drives.

If anyone can give me help that could get this thing working, I'll give you one of my children.

The Thecus units have been very dependable based on this forum. Some questions:

- you said this was your second unit - what happened to first?
- When you put second unit in - did you use new eSATA cable too?
- Raid 0 or 1?
- On your first time for either new drive did you power drive bay up while HR20 was unplugged, the plug the HR20 when disk activity lights stopped?
- If you have unplugged the eSATA cable from the bay or HR20 while powered on I'm concerned you may have damaged the HR20 eSATA port
- The Thecus unit requires the disk drives to be identical in make, model and size - are they?
- Are you insuring that the electrical power to the Thecus is always on even when you turn off you setup? I have known a few folks to plug the Thecus into a switched port that goes off say when the A/V reciever or similar is turned off - always keep it on.

If you put the eSATA card in the PC you can run the utilities that came with the Thecus and/or the disks. Do not format them for windows or mac - just use the utilities to exercise and run diagnostics on the drive. Again, don't format or partition them - just do raw diagnostics. It would be interesting to see if you can see everything from your PC which then says the HR20 port is fired and that is why you are "losing" access to you bay. if you have the old bay you may want to try that on the PC too.

[FirkinBucky]

The Thecus units have been very dependable based on this forum. Some questions:

- you said this was your second unit - what happened to first?
- When you put second unit in - did you use new eSATA cable too?
- Raid 0 or 1?
- On your first time for either new drive did you power drive bay up while HR20 was unplugged, the plug the HR20 when disk activity lights stopped?
- If you have unplugged the eSATA cable from the bay or HR20 while powered on I'm concerned you may have damaged the HR20 eSATA port
- The Thecus unit requires the disk drives to be identical in make, model and size - are they?
- Are you insuring that the electrical power to the Thecus is always on even when you turn off you setup? I have known a few folks to plug the Thecus into a switched port that goes off say when the A/V reciever or similar is turned off - always keep it on.

If you put the eSATA card in the PC you can run the utilities that came with the Thecus and/or the disks. Do not format them for windows or mac - just use the utilities to exercise and run diagnostics on the drive. Again, don't format or partition them - just do raw diagnostics. It would be interesting to see if you can see everything from your PC which then says the HR20 port is fired and that is why you are "losing" access to you bay. if you have the old bay you may want to try that on the PC too.

The first enclosure had similar problems. It didn't format correctly at first. Eventually I got it to format by switching to Raid 1 and back again. It worked fine for the night, but would be unresponsive in the morning. (Power still on, but orange activity light not blinking--not recording no access to recordings.) I sent it back to NewEgg and they gave me another one. The invoice said "repair" but it appeared to be new.

The cable was new unless they repackaged my old unit completely.

It's in Raid 0.

Yes, I did power the drives up first and then plug in the HR20. It formated right away and worked fine for about 4 hours.

Yes, in attempting to format my first drive, I may have unplugged the cable from the port while it was powered on. You think this may have damaged it? Would it allow it to function sporadically?

Drives are identical.

The enclosure was always on.

The enclosure did not come with utilities--at least I don't think it did. I'll check tonight. If the port is fried, would it function at all?

[swandersen]

The first enclosure had similar problems. It didn't format correctly at first. Eventually I got it to format by switching to Raid 1 and back again. It worked fine for the night, but would be unresponsive in the morning. (Power still on, but orange activity light not blinking--not recording no access to recordings.) I sent it back to NewEgg and they gave me another one. The invoice said "repair" but it appeared to be new.

The cable was new unless they repackaged my old unit completely.

It's in Raid 0.

Yes, I did power the drives up first and then plug in the HR20. It formated right away and worked fine for about 4 hours.

Yes, in attempting to format my first drive, I may have unplugged the cable from the port while it was powered on. You think this may have damaged it? Would it allow it to function sporadically?

Drives are identical.

The enclosure was always on.

The enclosure did not come with utilities--at least I don't think it did. I'll check tonight. If the port is fried, would it function at all?

Yes the unplug could have damaged it - there is a CD with the Thecus 2050 unit - give it a try on your PC. Good luck with D* on this since eSATA is not yet officially supported. Are you on release 120? Since I am trying to ask obvious questions - you have drives snugged in and used all screws to achor in and there is a pin based structure (like 8 or 10 pins) that easily comes out on the inside of the Thecus unit at end of drives (the side where the disks don't plug-in) - just reseat ... carefully. Won't work without it based on my experiences.

Look at the enclosure first and the pins - before the PC stuff.

[FirkinBucky]

Yes the unplug could have damaged it - there is a CD with the Thecus 2050 unit - give it a try on your PC. Good luck with D* on this since eSATA is not yet officially supported. Are you on release 120? Since I am trying to ask obvious questions - you have drives snugged in and used all screws to achor in and there is a pin based structure (like 8 or 10 pins) that easily comes out on the inside of the Thecus unit at end of drives (the side where the disks don't plug-in) - just reseat ... carefully. Won't work without it based on my experiences.

Look at the enclosure first and the pins - before the PC stuff.

Release 120?

I thought I found the pin structure you mentioned--but I'm not sure since no part of it seems to come out easily. I wasn't about to pull it out as I'd probably break it. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing. Is it attached to a short, flat cable that attaches to the other side of things?

I hooked it up to my PC, but there is no recognition of the device. I started with the enclosure on and then booted up the PC, but saw nothing. There are about 20 different folders on the disk, but I have no idea what I'm supposed to do to see the device. I was able to install the driver for the SATA card, but that was it.

I appreciate the help, but am pretty lost.

[chaswerner]

Hi All,

A question for the gurus here!

I have a HR20.

A couple of weeks ago I hooked up an external eSATA RAID box with 2 identical raid edition 400 GB Western Digital SATA drives. Everything worked great for a couple weeks.

Today the DVR wouldn't power up. I pulled the DVR power cord for 15 seconds. I never powered down the RAID. After repowering the DVR it then started up.

However, much to my wife's great displeasure (and therefore mine) everything that had been recorded was lost!

Has anyone else experienced this?

Does anyone know how to avoid it?

Many thanks,

charlie

[chaswerner]

Hi all,

addendum to the prev post. I was over on the DirecTV site. The forum mentioned a HR20 software update sent early this morning. I bet that was part of the problem.

If I need to do another power off reset, I think I'll power down the RAID next time and bring it up first on the internal drive. Then if it reformats, it won't destroy my active drive.

I would expect the software upgrades to be more graceful than this. Does anyone here know if my hypothesis is right or wrong?

charlie

[66stang351]

Hi all,

addendum to the prev post. I was over on the DirecTV site. The forum mentioned a HR20 software update sent early this morning. I bet that was part of the problem.

If I need to do another power off reset, I think I'll power down the RAID next time and bring it up first on the internal drive. Then if it reformats, it won't destroy my active drive.

I would expect the software upgrades to be more graceful than this. Does anyone here know if my hypothesis is right or wrong?

charlie

I have been running a RAID setup from day 1 and never had a problem with any software update or reboot.

[Cyrus]

Hi All,

A question for the gurus here!

I have a HR20.

A couple of weeks ago I hooked up an external eSATA RAID box with 2 identical raid edition 400 GB Western Digital SATA drives. Everything worked great for a couple weeks.

Today the DVR wouldn't power up. I pulled the DVR power cord for 15 seconds. I never powered down the RAID. After repowering the DVR it then started up.

However, much to my wife's great displeasure (and therefore mine) everything that had been recorded was lost!

Has anyone else experienced this?

Does anyone know how to avoid it?

Many thanks,

charlie

One of my friends lost his eSATA recordings after a reboot (playlist was empty), he also couldn't change channels (ended up with black screen) but then he rebooted several more times and the playlist eventually showed up and the black screen problem got fixed too. So the eSATA data was not lost, but there could be an intermittent problem during the boot process.

If you saw the Record button go bright red (for a few seconds) during boot then the disk was reformatted and your recordings are lost. But if your problem was similar to my friend (can't change channels either) then multiple rebooting might fix the problem. If neither of those is true then I have no idea what happened in your case. Software upgrade (which you mentioned in a different post) doesn't erase previous recordings, otherwise there would be an uproar among eSATA owners here. If your disk got reformatted, does it happen each time you reboot?

[SubSolar]

One of my friends lost his eSATA recordings after a reboot (playlist was empty), he also couldn't change channels (ended up with black screen) but then he rebooted several more times and the playlist eventually showed up and the black screen problem got fixed too. So the eSATA data was not lost, but there could be an intermittent problem during the boot process.

If you saw the Record button go bright red (for a few seconds) during boot then the disk was reformatted and your recordings are lost. But if your problem was similar to my friend (can't change channels either) then multiple rebooting might fix the problem. If neither of those is true then I have no idea what happened in your case. Software upgrade (which you mentioned in a different post) doesn't erase previous recordings, otherwise there would be an uproar among eSATA owners here. If your disk got reformatted, does it happen each time you reboot?

This happened to me a few pages back. I power cycled everything a few times and it didn't fix it so I just reset everything. But someone else said they fixed it by doing it a lot of times, like 7-8. Guess I should have kept doing it.

[chaswerner]

Hi All,

I have a HR20.

A couple of weeks ago I hooked up an external eSATA RAID box with 2 identical raid edition 400 GB Western Digital SATA drives. Everything worked great for a couple weeks.

On 2/1/07, after a direcTV software update the DVR wouldn't power up. I pulled the DVR power cord for 15 seconds. I never powered down the RAID. After repowering the DVR it then started up.

Everything that had been recorded on the RAID was lost.

My wife was not happy.

Fast forward to 2/4/07 everything has been normal since the last reboot. We had a short power outage. The raid box failed and the DVR would not power up.

I unplugged the eSata and pulled the DVR power for 15 seconds. I then rebooted to the internal drive. All normal.

I inserted the eSATA cable powered the RAID box and hit the red reset on the DVR.

The unit came back up on the RAID drive BUT
it had the program content recorded between 1/7/07 and 2/1/07 in the play list.

The content recorded between 2/1 and 2/4 is now missing.

I have a degree in computer science and usually can figure out what is going on under the covers.

I can't understand how this could occur.

Anyone here have any ideas?

many thanks,


charlie

[dallascontractor]

When it went out first time you should have done more power recycle to get first list back, you most likely lost second set.

[cs19]

Sorry in advance if this is a repost - but I can't find it after several searches and browsing a few pages (but not all 33)...

Has anyone taken their eSATA drive with shows recorded, unplugged it, then using an adapter or enclosure, hooked it up to a computer via USB? I'm just curious if you could dig around on the hard drive to perhaps see if the recorded shows are in a somewhat friendly file structure and/or format that would allow you to transfer them onto your computer.

It could be a lot of work, but might be a poor-man's way of recording a bunch of shows and then throwing them onto your laptop for viewing while on a trip or something. A bootlegged DirecTV-to-go anyone?

[chaswerner]

When it went out first time you should have done more power recycle to get first list back, you most likely lost second set.

Do you know how can there be more than 1 an any given drive?

thanks,

charlie

[Tom Robertson]

Sorry in advance if this is a repost - but I can't find it after several searches and browsing a few pages (but not all 33)...

Has anyone taken their eSATA drive with shows recorded, unplugged it, then using an adapter or enclosure, hooked it up to a computer via USB? I'm just curious if you could dig around on the hard drive to perhaps see if the recorded shows are in a somewhat friendly file structure and/or format that would allow you to transfer them onto your computer.

It could be a lot of work, but might be a poor-man's way of recording a bunch of shows and then throwing them onto your laptop for viewing while on a trip or something. A bootlegged DirecTV-to-go anyone?

yes, been done. files are not playable on a PC without the magic decoder ring (ie chip) inside the HR20.

Cheers,
Tom

[dezufnoC]

The latest prices for a 1TB storage...

Newegg
2 Maxtor 7H500FO 500 gig hard drives...$139 each
Ajump
Thecus N2050UD... $125

both come with free shipping

Total out of pocket price...$403

[AlbertZeroK]

Is anyone with lost recordings running a battery backup on both the HR20 and the RAID box?

I'm wondering why this isn't happening on the main drive but is on the external drive?

[GollyGee]

The latest prices for a 1TB storage...

Newegg
2 Maxtor 7H500FO 500 gig hard drives...$139 each
Ajump
Thecus N2050UD... $125

both come with free shipping

Total out of pocket price...$403Or...

The latest prices for a 750 GB storage...

Newegg
1 Maxtor 7H500FO 500 gig hard drives...$139
250 GB drive, pulled from inside the DTV box... $0
Ajump
Thecus N2050UD... $125

Total out of pocket price...$264
... and there's a lot less heat build-up inside the DVR.

[brownram]

Or...

The latest prices for a 750 GB storage...

Newegg
1 Maxtor 7H500FO 500 gig hard drives...$139
250 GB drive, pulled from inside the DTV box... $0
Ajump
Thecus N2050UD... $125

Total out of pocket price...$264
... and there's a lot less heat build-up inside the DVR.

you need to read a little before you post things that will not work

[P Smith]

Theoretically it could work it the enclosure support 'span' one logical disk across many _different_ disks. Then the total size will be 750 GB. Raid-1 - only 250 GB and Raid-0 - 500 GB for the configuration.

[GollyGee]

you need to read a little before you post things that will not workOops, my bad. I tried this with an eSATA box that supports concatenation. The Thecus doesn't support concatenation, only striping and mirroring, so both drives have to be the same size.

[HDTV-newbie]

Hi,

I'm scheduled to have my HR20 installed in a couple of weeks, I of course I alreade need (reallt want :) ) more storage but I'm on a budget.

If I start with say a single 500GB eSATA drive and single drive enclosure, but later on I (few months to a year). I want to upgrade and go with a Multiple disk setting (i.e a 2 or 4 drive enclosure with 2 or 4 500GB disks), will then be any way to preserve what will by then already have recorded on the first drive?

i.e can I just add the additional disks and then have the HR20 recognize the "added" HD space while preserving what is stored on the first drive?

Sorry if this is a too basic question, but I'm not a computer/IT guy :sure:

If this has been aswered before (I search but couldn't find any answer), thanks to point me to the rigth thread.

Thanks in advance
HDTV newbie

[Cyrus]

If I start with say a single 500GB eSATA drive and single drive enclosure, but later on I (few months to a year). I want to upgrade and go with a Multiple disk setting (i.e a 2 or 4 drive enclosure with 2 or 4 500GB disks), will then be any way to preserve what will by then already have recorded on the first drive?

i.e can I just add the additional disks and then have the HR20 recognize the "added" HD space while preserving what is stored on the first drive?

I don't believe this is possible. However you can switch back and forth between different eSATA drives (just like switching back and forth between internal & external drives) by disconnecting one and connecting another one and rebooting hr20.

[hdtvfan0001]

If I start with say a single 500GB eSATA drive and single drive enclosure, but later on I (few months to a year). I want to upgrade and go with a Multiple disk setting (i.e a 2 or 4 drive enclosure with 2 or 4 500GB disks), will then be any way to preserve what will by then already have recorded on the first drive?
It's important to keep 2 things in mind:

1) As of now, an external eSata setup works just fine as an external storage device based on the size of the Hard Disk (or Disks in a Raid setup) that you use, even though this is not an "officially supported capability at this time".

2) Please keep in mind that D*TV's long-term plan is for the eSata to be used as an expansion facility, meaning that the eSata storage will be used in addition to the internal drive, so that you have the combined storage of both the internal and external drives to be used as one combined virtual storage location.

In my case, if you take the 300GB internal drive and add it to my 500GB external drive, I'll have about 800GB of potential storage (minus the customary overhead space used on any drive by the HR20 for index files, etc.).

[harsh]

In my case, if you take the 300GB internal drive and add it to my 500GB external drive, I'll have about 800GB of potential storage (minus the customary overhead space used on any drive by the HR20 for index files, etc.).Don't forget that for each drive setup, you're also losing the VOD set-aside. I'm sure the guide information and filesystem overhead pale in comparison. If you had five drives set up independently, you would lose five times the VOD set-aside. With the drives arrayed, I would presume that you would only have to forfeit that space once.

The loss probably still doesn't offset the cost of a RAID controller, but having to swap drives constantly certainly will.

I don't think it pays to plan on long-term plans today. The price of big storage is going down rapidly while the programming on DirecTV is going nowhere until Fall.

[hdtvfan0001]

I don't think it pays to plan on long-term plans today. The price of big storage is going down rapidly while the programming on DirecTV is going nowhere until Fall.
...but the full eSata firmware support will be activated before that...

[oenophile]

I'm (D* gods willing) getting the HR20 install (along with the 5LNB dish) on the 19th. I definitely want to use the eSata connection to set up a RAID 0 or 1 system (haven't decided yet on the redudendancy v. cost issue).

What I'm wondering is this: When they install the HR 20 I assume it won't be upgraded to the latest firmware. Q: Should I wait and let the HR 20 settle, download any firmware updates, and then go ahead and plug in the eSATA system?

I understand it won't use the internal drive after I plug in the eSATA drive, so what is on it should be mostly irrelevant. However, my thought was that if the HR20 had older firmware and there was a reboot, a problem, or something, and it flipped to the internal drive in the future, I'd be better off with the latest firmware.

If it doesn't make any difference, I'd rather just go ahead and plug in the RAID array right off the bat.....but if it helps some, I'd make sure the internal has the latest firmware first.

If the advice is to wait until the firmware updates--what's the best way to do this? Should I just wait until it naturally does? Force an update? (And, if you have great patience, please point me to the thread where it advises how to force if applicable....)

Now, I realize some of what I just said doesn't exactly make any sense (firmware on a hard drive is unusual in computer-world, isn't it? is that really the way it works??), so please forgive the newbieness of the question.... :D

Thanks for any tips.

[harsh]

If it doesn't make any difference, I'd rather just go ahead and plug in the RAID array right off the bat.....but if it helps some, I'd make sure the internal has the latest firmware first.The firmware is stored in flash memory, so it doesn't matter. The latest public version is downloaded when the receiver is set up.

[harsh]

...but the full eSata firmware support will be activated before that...Do you have anything more than high hopes? A date perhaps?

[hdtvfan0001]

Do you have anything more than high hopes? A date perhaps?
Inside rumor and inuendo....but its been pretty much on track as well. My contacts tend to echo Earl's with some regularity. It is on the table, but not until HR20 is stable for base functions.

[oenophile]

The firmware is stored in flash memory, so it doesn't matter. The latest public version is downloaded when the receiver is set up.Thanks. I think that answers my question--I'm just going to go ahead and plug in the eSATA as soon as I'm certain everything is working OK.

What is/was confusing me is: I've seen some reference in this thread to the fact that the internal drive could need to be "re-formatted" or "brought up to date" if it wasn't in use for a long time and you went back to it. As it seems the firmware is in flash memory (makes sense to me), what is the reference to the hard drive needing to be brought up to date? What exactly would it do? (I assume the file structure wouldn't change, and the guide data is in RAM....so what's changing?)

[freshone]

Guys,

Noticed there was a software update on Friday. How can we tell if anything has changed eSATA wise?

[hdtvfan0001]

Guys,

Noticed there was a software update on Friday. How can we tell if anything has changed eSATA wise?
Had this update already Thursday night as a CE release....nothing new on eSata. I suspect you won't see that for a bit yet, as other items are ahead of it in line.

[montman22]

First time posting. I think I have read all post and have not come across the item below.

Sorry I cannot post the site at this time as I am a first time poster so I have spaced the url out. go to www addonics . com / raid_system / mst4 . asp


I am considering using this configuration for an external multi-esata drive. I am not extremely technical on raid or esata. There is a esata multiplier that can be attached to this unit but I do not know how it actually works. If it did work, it seems that it would be a fairly inexpensive (4-bays at 195) way of adding a large amount of space for storage. I would more than likely use four 500gb drives (whatever is on sale at fry's).

My main concern is will it act as one (2 tb) drive? And will the HR20 recongize it?


If someone a little more technical could give me some tips. I will purchase what is needed and test it with proper advise. And of course I will post comments to let everyone know how it works.

Thanks!

[JACKIEGAGA]

Can somebody tell me or send me a thread link on annimations that people are talking about. Thanks in advance

[GollyGee]

I am considering using this configuration for an external multi-esata drive. I am not extremely technical on raid or esata. There is a esata multiplier that can be attached to this unit but I do not know how it actually works. If it did work, it seems that it would be a fairly inexpensive (4-bays at 195) way of adding a large amount of space for storage. I would more than likely use four 500gb drives (whatever is on sale at fry's).

My main concern is will it act as one (2 tb) drive? And will the HR20 recongize it?I've been playing with arrays like this one. I'll have to double-check to be certain that the Addonics with "port multiplier" is the same as the "storage processor" box I've used. The Addonics appears to have a true storage processor, and not simply a port multipler... but I'm not certain yet.

What I found is that the DVR only sees one disk. If I create an external RAID that appears as one volume, it will work. That's why you need a storage processor, and not a "dumb" port multipler.

I've tried RAID-0 (FAST), RAID-1 (MIRRORED, aka SAFE), and Concatenated ("BIG"). They all work, but it appears to me (so far) that a RAID-0 gives much better, silky-smooth fast play.

I haven't tried 2 TB yet, but I've tried a pair of 750 GB drives (1.5 TB), and the filesystem appeared to have no problem recognizing all of the space.

That's what I've found so far. Like I said, I'll get specifics on the Addonics and let you know.

[oenophile]

It is looking more and more likely that I will have my eSATA setup delivered at least a week in advance of my HR20. (Thecus enclosure and 2 WD 500GBs) Due to return policy at NewEgg (30 days), I'm thinking I may want to set up the RAID array, hook it up to my PC and run some diagnostics on the drives to make sure they're in tip-top shape and keep them on until the HR20 gets installed. Sort of a pre-test for when they're hooked up.

My understanding is that this should be fine and that it won't matter if I format them for NTFS first, because the HR20 will automatically re-format them. Is that correct?

Can anyone see any concerns with me doing this? Any reason not to? (Any reason why it is a good idea?)

Thanks in advance for your $0.02.

[P Smith]

Sure, this exhausting test will be good.

[moorhead99]

I have a Sansdigital enclosure with 2 500GB drive configured as Raid-0. I formatted as NTFS and tested with a laptop for about a week. Hooked it up to the HR20 and worked with no problems. Go for it.

[oenophile]

I have a Sansdigital enclosure with 2 500GB drive configured as Raid-0. I formatted as NTFS and tested with a laptop for about a week. Hooked it up to the HR20 and worked with no problems. Go for it.
Thanks.

Random curiosity...> how did you decide to do RAID 0 and not 1. I've been working with computers for 25 years (all the way back to when 5 MB was HUGE) and I've never had a hard drive go bad (I know, just luck), but I'm sorely tempted to do RAID 1, not 0, because my understanding is that with RAID 0 if *either* drive goes bad, you lose the whole thing (i.e. 2x chances)....and my luck may run out some day...

But I gotta say, my TiVo has been running on the two drives (I added one) for 6+ years without a hitch....and my guess is that if I do a RAID 0 it'll be the same here. Especially if I get by the first few weeks, the chances of either drive dying are low.

Has anyone with a RAID 1 or a RAID 0 had a drive die?

If RAID 1, what did you do (just pull one drive out, return to manufacturer and replace when new one arrived? did it work with just the 1 drive connected?)? how did you know it had died? (Honestly: Without the reporting that the PC gives you, how would you even know if one died???)

[moorhead99]

Thanks.

Random curiosity...> how did you decide to do RAID 0 and not 1.

My "thinking" -- Since this is not mission critical I wanted the larger storage array. For my office PC, I implemented a Raid-1 configuration. If one of the drives in Raid-0 goes bad (as indicated by the front panel display) I will switch to an alternate Esata hard drive or revert to the HR20 internal.

[oenophile]

My "thinking" -- Since this is not mission critical I wanted the larger storage array. For my office PC, I implemented a Raid-1 configuration. If one of the drives in Raid-0 goes bad (as indicated by the front panel display) I will switch to an alternate Esata hard drive or revert to the HR20 internal.Thanks for the reply. I generally agree, this isn't mission critical, but I sure would hate to have 100 hours of shows deleted (ie. if you actually used > 500GB, you'd have at least 60 + hours of shows on there).

Wonder: Has anyone tried the following? (anyone with some extra time on their hands?)
First: Record some shows on eSATA array
Second: Unplug eSATA array, walk over to PC, plug it in.
Third: Use Norton GHOST (or similar) and create an image of the RAID array.
Fourth: Erase the eSATA drives
Fifth: Restore the eSATA array using GHOST
Sixth: Plug it back into the HR20 and see what happens.

If that process works, I'd feel better about RAID 0....as I can back up once a quarter without concern.

[Tom Robertson]

Thanks for the reply. I generally agree, this isn't mission critical, but I sure would hate to have 100 hours of shows deleted (ie. if you actually used > 500GB, you'd have at least 60 + hours of shows on there).

Wonder: Has anyone tried the following? (anyone with some extra time on their hands?)
First: Record some shows on eSATA array
Second: Unplug eSATA array, walk over to PC, plug it in.
Third: Use Norton GHOST (or similar) and create an image of the RAID array.
Fourth: Erase the eSATA drives
Fifth: Restore the eSATA array using GHOST
Sixth: Plug it back into the HR20 and see what happens.

If that process works, I'd feel better about RAID 0....as I can back up once a quarter without concern.

Back about a 100 pages on this thread (or somewhere in here) I think it has been done. IIRC there are some issues with some of the copy software handling all the partitions correctly, but other software does exist that works fine.

Cheers,
Tom

[djshawn]

I want to bump up the space in my HR20 by adding an external drive. Before I read through 34 pages of replies in this thread, can anyone point me towards a guide or something that may tie all 34 pages into one neat bow?

I know I'm reaching here...and I'm lazy. Don't get me wrong, I love electronics as much as the next guy....just not too keen on wading through the 30 or so pages of repeated old information.

Thanks in advance!

[P Smith]

There is no OLD INFORMATION !!!

You must read, common - don't be publicly lazy :p.

[susanandmark]

OK, I've read about 10 pages of this thread and am a bit dizzy. I'm not totally technically unsavvy, but this is all way above my level of technical expertise. (I'm a photographer/journalist who works on Macs.) Is there an idiot-proof way to upgrade these units (I'm gonna' be honest, I'm not even 100% sure what an eSATA drive is), with step-by-step instructions for someone who is not an IT person?

I'm looking into making the switch from a DirecTV HD TiVo, since we're supposed to get MPEG-4 HD locals soon, but 30-hours just won't cut it, storage-wise. I've always purchased my DirecTV TiVo units already upgraged ... Is there someone out there that's trustworthy and selling such set-ups for the new DirecTV HD DVRs?

I appreciate any info and apologize in advance if my question has already been answered in the 20 or pages of this thread I didn't get through. (I did do a search with "upgrade" "eSata" and "HD20" and didn't find anything that seemed to precisely answer my question.)

[Tom Robertson]

At this point, I haven't heard of an off the shelf HR20 with more space. But we likely can help.

First off, how much storage are you looking for, how much is your budget, and what requirements for reliability do you have? (when a drive ultimately fails, do you want a spare drive to automatically cover the lost one)?

Cheers,
Tom

[oenophile]

OK, I've read about 10 pages of this thread and am a bit dizzy. I'm not totally technically unsavvy, but this is all way above my level of technical expertise. (I'm a photographer/journalist who works on Macs.) Is there an idiot-proof way to upgrade these units (I'm gonna' be honest, I'm not even 100% sure what an eSATA drive is), with step-by-step instructions for someone who is not an IT person? First off, how much storage are you looking for, how much is your budget, and what requirements for reliability do you have? (when a drive ultimately fails, do you want a spare drive to automatically cover the lost one)?
I think if you answer Tibber's/Tom's questions, you'll get the best response. That being said, even without knowing more, if what you are looking for is the easiest possible solution to increase storage space, I'd look into buying a prepackaged external eSATA drive, like the Seagate ST3500601XS-RK 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache eSATA External Hard Drive shown on Newegg.com here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148154).

Theoretically, it should be as easy as buying it, turning off the HR20, plugging in the drive, turning on the drive, and turning back on the HR20 (see first post in this thread for more precise instructions). That should be it. Nothing else to do and you've doubled your storage space.

(Someone with better knowledge, please correct if necessary.)

[Tom Robertson]

I think if you answer Tibber's/Tom's questions, you'll get the best response. That being said, even without knowing more, if what you are looking for is the easiest possible solution to increase storage space, I'd look into buying a prepackaged external eSATA drive, like the Seagate ST3500601XS-RK 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache eSATA External Hard Drive shown on Newegg.com here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148154).

Theoretically, it should be as easy as buying it, turning off the HR20, plugging in the drive, turning on the drive, and turning back on the HR20 (see first post in this thread for more precise instructions). That should be it. Nothing else to do and you've doubled your storage space.

(Someone with better knowledge, please correct if necessary.)

That was one of the suggestions I was thinking of, but alas that won't be double the space, only about 60% more. A 750gb model would double and then a small bit. Even so, the concept was spot on, oenophile.

Cheers,
Tom

[oenophile]

...alas that won't be double the space, only about 60% more. A 750gb model would double and then a small bit...I could definitely be wrong, but I thought a 500GB would, in fact, double the usable space.

I thought that the internal drive was 300GB, and that 100GB was reserved for D* use. So, 200GB of available space. And the 500GB drive would, too, have 100GB reserved for D* use, so 400GB available space--so 2x the 200GB available in the internal drive=double.

Is that not right? :confused:

(I'm deciding, as we speak, whether to do RAID 0 or 1 with my eSATA 2x500GB WD Caviar drives, so I really want to know the correct answer to this.)

[Tom Robertson]

I could definitely be wrong, but I thought a 500GB would, in fact, double the usable space.

I thought that the internal drive was 300GB, and that 100GB was reserved for D* use. So, 200GB of available space. And the 500GB drive would, too, have 100GB reserved for D* use, so 400GB available space--so 2x the 200GB available in the internal drive=double.

Is that not right? :confused:

(I'm deciding, as we speak, whether to do RAID 0 or 1 with my eSATA 2x500GB WD Caviar drives, so I really want to know the correct answer to this.)

hmm...I may stand corrected. I no longer recall the reserve on the 300gb vs. the 500 gb. I think you are more correct than I was.

Sorry,
Tom

[bllreed]

It doesn't actually wipe the contents of the internal drive. If you disconnect the external drive and reboot hr20 you will see the recordings that are on the internal drive again.

That's great. I though someone said it wiped the recordings from the internal? So
if you switch back to the internal are the recordings on the external maintained
or lost when you reconnect the external?

[P Smith]

Your thought was incorrect. Ppl reported OPPOSITE.

[susanandmark]

At this point, I haven't heard of an off the shelf HR20 with more space. But we likely can help.

First off, how much storage are you looking for, how much is your budget, and what requirements for reliability do you have? (when a drive ultimately fails, do you want a spare drive to automatically cover the lost one)?

Cheers,
Tom

Thanks, the responses already helped me quite a bit, I think. To answer Tom's questions: budget is an issue, but if we could get about 80 hours of HD recordings, I think that would work well. What size drive would we need for that?

A plug and play solution like that would probably be best, at least for our first try. :-) (And if I'm confused and this is NOT plug-and-play, please correct me.)

I checked out Newegg.com and saw quite a few external eSATA drives via a search; most though seemed to be eSATA/USB 2.0 ... Does it have to be eSATA only to work? (I noticed the Seagate drives that are listed as eSATA only are quite a bit more, and the one suggested above was such a Seagate drive.)

Lastly, I've seen on this site a lot of really useful PDF's put together with clear, easy-to-grasp (for dum-dums like me) information about the HR20 and how to use it. I'm not seeing one about this issue (installing extra storage via eSATA). Does one exist and I'm just missing it?

Thanks again for helping out a total newbie!

[hiyabrad]

How can D** tell that you opened the HR20?

[Tom Robertson]

Thanks, the responses already helped me quite a bit, I think. To answer Tom's questions: budget is an issue, but if we could get about 80 hours of HD recordings, I think that would work well. What size drive would we need for that?

A plug and play solution like that would probably be best, at least for our first try. :-) (And if I'm confused and this is NOT plug-and-play, please correct me.)

I checked out Newegg.com and saw quite a few external eSATA drives via a search; most though seemed to be eSATA/USB 2.0 ... Does it have to be eSATA only to work? (I noticed the Seagate drives that are listed as eSATA only are quite a bit more, and the one suggested above was such a Seagate drive.)

Lastly, I've seen on this site a lot of really useful PDF's put together with clear, easy-to-grasp (for dum-dums like me) information about the HR20 and how to use it. I'm not seeing one about this issue (installing extra storage via eSATA). Does one exist and I'm just missing it?

Thanks again for helping out a total newbie!

We are here to help.

The HR20 port is plug and play. And all single drive external units will be plug and play as well. Only when someone goes with a multiple drive unit that needs configuration does it become a bit more than true plug and play.

eSata with USB should work perfectly fine. Many units come that way to give them more flexibility.

As for pdfs on external drive configuration, it maybe due to the facts that: 1) there are so many possibilities available, and 2) the port on the HR20 is still unofficially supported, so a pdf now will have to be updated sometime. So if you buy me a drive, I'll write the pdf for you. :) (And I'll even send you the drive in a year or so...) :)

At this point, I'm still considering how I want to configure my systems, so I haven't tackled the whole issue. Otherwise, I might put sometime more concise for users.

As for size, 80 hours of OTA would be a 750gb. 80 hours of MPEG4 locals would be about 500gb.

Cheers,
Tom

[Tom Robertson]

How can D** tell that you opened the HR20?
Welcome to the forums, hiyabrad! :welcome_s

If you are very, very good at removing the "tamper-proof" sticker, they can't.

Cheers,
Tom

[hiyabrad]

Welcome to the forums, hiyabrad! :welcome_s

If you are very, very good at removing the "tamper-proof" sticker, they can't.

Cheers,
Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the tip!

I have read that some of the ext. HD's are losing their recorded programming when D** does a software update. So they do not sound so stable at this time, therefore, my wife would kill me if that happened. That leads me to think the internal swap would be a better solution as I have not read about data loss on the internal upgrades.

Can you shed some light on this?

Thanks again,

Brad

[Tom Robertson]

Tom,

Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the tip!

I have read that some of the ext. HD's are losing their recorded programming when D** does a software update. So they do not sound so stable at this time, therefore, my wife would kill me if that happened. That leads me to think the internal swap would be a better solution as I have not read about data loss on the internal upgrades.

Can you shed some light on this?

Thanks again,

Brad

I believe I have read some reports of external data being lost during upgrades. I think, but am not certain these were mostly: 1) in the past releases, or 2) connection problems that the owners eventually resolved and haven't had problems since.

Cheers,
Tom

[hiyabrad]

hmmmmm, interesting. Do I really need another project!

Thanks.

[oenophile]

I'm wondering if anyone who has an external eSATA has tried disconnecting the internal drive from the power supply. I was thinking that this would be a very easy thing to do and would keep the temperature down inside the HR20. (My guess is even an idle drive puts out most of the heat in the box.)

Thoughts?

(And yes, I know, you void the warranty if you open the box and they can tell you opened it by looking at the sticker.)

[hiflyer9]

I understand the need for an enclosure when setting up a Raid array however, is an enclosure technically necessary? Can I simply connect a single bare sata drive with a separate power supply and a SATA to ESATA adapter cable?

[Tom Robertson]

I understand the need for an enclosure when setting up a Raid array however, is an enclosure technically necessary? Can I simply connect a single bare sata drive with a separate power supply and a SATA to ESATA adapter cable?

Welcome to the forums, hiflyer9! :welcome_s

Indeed, you could go without an enclosure even in a raid--just have the raid controller hanging out too. Yes you could. Airflow and temp would be something to watch out for and static to the wrong parts of the drive could be a disaster. But it would work just fine. (Tho single drive enclosures should be dirt cheap these days.)

Cheers,
Tom

[Cyrus]

That's great. I though someone said it wiped the recordings from the internal? So if you switch back to the internal are the recordings on the external maintained or lost when you reconnect the external?

The recordings on the external should be there when you reconnect.

[LA_john]

WOW,

I just signed up yesterday and have been reading this HR-20 forum -- with special interest in the discussions regarding connecting an e-SATA drive to my new box (to be delivered at the end of March -- yes, long wait out here in Hollywood). In fact, thanks to this forum, yesterday was the first time I had even heard of a SATA drive and I have been shopping for the right one ever since...

LeCie has one that sounds interesting to me (the "Two Big") but I have a question about RAID 0 vs. 1. Which is better for performance?

John

[swandersen]

WOW,

I just signed up yesterday and have been reading this HR-20 forum -- with special interest in the discussions regarding connecting an e-SATA drive to my new box (to be delivered at the end of March -- yes, long wait out here in Hollywood). In fact, thanks to this forum, yesterday was the first time I had even heard of a SATA drive and I have been shopping for the right one ever since...

LeCie has one that sounds interesting to me (the "Two Big") but I have a question about RAID 0 vs. 1. Which is better for performance?

John

RAID 0 is just two drives striped so better capacity (full) and better performance since two or more drives are writing/reading at the same time. RAID 1, since it is mirrored gives safer capacity and slightly lower performance.. I have tried both on my HR20-700 without notable differences.

Level 0 -- Striped Disk Array without Fault Tolerance: Provides data striping (spreading out blocks of each file across multiple disk drives) but no redundancy. This improves performance but does not deliver fault tolerance. If one drive fails then all data in the array is lost.
Level 1 -- Mirroring and Duplexing: Provides disk mirroring. Level 1 provides twice the read transaction rate of single disks and the same write transaction rate as single disks.
Level 2 -- Error-Correcting Coding: Not a typical implementation and rarely used, Level 2 stripes data at the bit level rather than the block level.
Level 3 -- Bit-Interleaved Parity: Provides byte-level striping with a dedicated parity disk. Level 3, which cannot service simultaneous multiple requests, also is rarely used.
Level 4 -- Dedicated Parity Drive: A commonly used implementation of RAID, Level 4 provides block-level striping (like Level 0) with a parity disk. If a data disk fails, the parity data is used to create a replacement disk. A disadvantage to Level 4 is that the parity disk can create write bottlenecks.
Level 5 -- Block Interleaved Distributed Parity: Provides data striping at the byte level and also stripe error correction information. This results in excellent performance and good fault tolerance. Level 5 is one of the most popular implementations of RAID.
Level 6 -- Independent Data Disks with Double Parity: Provides block-level striping with parity data distributed across all disks.
Level 0+1 – A Mirror of Stripes: Not one of the original RAID levels, two RAID 0 stripes are created, and a RAID 1 mirror is created over them. Used for both replicating and sharing data among disks.
Level 10 – A Stripe of Mirrors: Not one of the original RAID levels, multiple RAID 1 mirrors are created, and a RAID 0 stripe is created over these.
Level 7: A trademark of Storage Computer Corporation that adds caching to Levels 3 or 4.
RAID S: EMC Corporation's proprietary striped parity RAID system used in its Symmetrix storage systems.

[HDTV-newbie]

...but the full eSata firmware support will be activated before that...

HDTVfan,


When the functionality of eSATA as additional storage (instead of replacement of internal storage as it is today) is released, what will happen with all the people that already have an eSATA drive connected to the HR20.

Will they need to reformat it so now the internal and external drives can work together? or will they be able to keep what they have on the external drive?

I know this is not released yet, so difficult to know the answers, but if you have heard any rumours or have a feeling on how this will work, it will be interesting to know

Cheers
HDTV-Newbie

[hdtvfan0001]

HDTVfan,

When the functionality of eSATA as additional storage (instead of replacement of internal storage as it is today) is released, what will happen with all the people that already have an eSATA drive connected to the HR20.

Will they need to reformat it so now the internal and external drives can work together? or will they be able to keep what they have on the external drive?
Excellent question, and one I've asked myself. From what I've been told, D* is aware that a number of users have already plugged into the eSata port. The final decision on just how it will be "officially" activated has not yet been made, according to my sources.

That said, there are several possbilities:

1) The existing internal drive content will be retained, but the eSata drive will be "activated" to yield a combine storage capacity via a reformat (losing all the content there on the external drive). There seems to be a consensus that losing existing content on the internal drive is not an acceptable deployment strategy in any combination.

2) There may be some means to transfer programming from the external eSata to the internal storage, prior to process #1.

3) There may be a setup menu choice to select the internal drive, the external drive, or the combined drives. The first 2 choices would function as it does today, while the third option would result in the same process as #2.

In any event, the main thing I am being told is that the ultimate goal is not to lose existing programming if at all possible. Since the eSata is not "officially supported at this time, we all run the risk of losing the content on that drive, however, since D* is aware there are a number of users already storing programming there, it appears they'll try to facilitate the retention of that external programming storage somehow.

In summary, its not yet decided...or so I am told.

[hoss713]

Something is wrong, but I'm not sure what--hopefully someone here can help.

I have two 500 WD drives in the Thecus enclosure. I've gotten it to work for a few hours at a time, but I soon encounter one of two problems. The first is when the orange activity light starts to glow constantly and the picture will freeze up and require a RBR. When I do this, it often reverts back to the internal drive or it shows the second drive but it has no functionality.

The other problem is that the orange activity light simply stops blinking altogether--and the unit stops recording. It will not pause live TV nor will it allow me to play a recording. If I select a recording for playback, it will ask me if I want to delete it. It seems that the connection between the HR20 and the enclosure was dropped. When I RBR, it will occasionally get me back to the second drive, but more often than not--it goes back to the first.

There was one other instance where, when playing back the beginning of a recording of a show (OTA) that had not yet finished recording, the recording would start and stop about every second, with almost no audio. It was a a very consistent pace--it would play for about two seconds and pause for one--very strange.

I'm at a loss. This is actually the second enclosure I've had. Does this sound like a problem with the drives? If the answer is yes, how do I test them? I've installed the ESATA card on my computer, but wouldn't really know what to do in order to test the drives.

If anyone can give me help that could get this thing working, I'll give you one of my children.

I've just had the exact same problem happen to me. It was working fine for about a week and then Thursday night it froze up during playback of a recorded show. It took several reboots to get it to recognize the esata again. Then all was fine until today, when it froze up during playback of live TV.

I have the same setup as you - Thecus 2050 + two WD500's in Raid 0 setup.

I'm hoping this is a software problem with the HR20 and not a quality problem with the Thecus...

lj

[oenophile]

I have the same setup as you - Thecus 2050 + two WD500's in Raid 0 setup.I'm hoping this is a software problem with the HR20 and not a quality problem with the Thecus... Please report back if you figure it out. I am days away from installing the exact same setup. Still considering whether RAID 0 or 1.

[Wings2007]

I had similar problems. I removed the top of the enclosure and it has worked for over 30 days with no further problems. It seems to run cooler with the top off.

[oenophile]

I had similar problems. I removed the top of the enclosure and it has worked for over 30 days with no further problems. It seems to run cooler with the top off.Anyone running the Thecus with the lid ON who has not had problems (related to the Thecus enclosure)?

(oye--I had thought this was the problem free-way to go...)

[hoss713]

I don't think it's a heat issue... I turned off my Thecus for about 30 minutes. When I turned it back on and rebooted the HR20, it froze within 5 minutes.

Turned off everything, turned it back on and rebooted and was able to watch for the past 1.5 hours without incident.

lj

[weez]

I saw a similar thing when I downloaded the new "cutting edge" release. Thought it might have been a problem with the download. Maybe it's the Thecus. I have the same config that you guys are having problems with.

[Coastsider]

From what I've been told, D* is aware that a number of users have already plugged into the eSata port. The final decision on just how it will be "officially" activated has not yet been made, according to my sources.

That said, there are several possbilities:

1) The existing internal drive content will be retained, but the eSata drive will be "activated" to yield a combine storage capacity via a reformat (losing all the content there on the external drive). There seems to be a consensus that losing existing content on the internal drive is not an acceptable deployment strategy in any combination.

2) There may be some means to transfer programming from the external eSata to the internal storage, prior to process #1.

3) There may be a setup menu choice to select the internal drive, the external drive, or the combined drives. The first 2 choices would function as it does today, while the third option would result in the same process as #2.



In the best of all possible worlds I'd like to see a combination of all three where the choices stated in #3 were available but with the combo choice (both drives) using the 100GB utility area (partition?) for buffer(s) and guide data on the internal drive while retaining that same space on the external drive so that it could still be used alone providing some failover capability. That way, reformatting (and loss of programming) of the external drive would not be required to implement the feature. Some loss of total recording capacity would be necessary but I'd settle for that to have the option of using one or the other of the drives alone in case of a failure.

That may be asking alot and I don't know if it is even possible, but since this is all mostly speculation, why not just put it out there.

[hoss713]

I just found this thread which suggests that the drives need to be jumpered to 1.5gb rather than 3.0gb to work with the HR20 esata. Can someone confirm or deny?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=70355

Thanks...

lj

Edit: And if I do jumper the drive to revert to 1.5gb, will that cause me to lose my data? (Will the Thecus or HR20 think I've got a new setup and reformat?)

[taw123]

Technical question for any DTV Engineer lurking (or someone who can get the question to them)....

What is the max size of eSATA disk connected to HR20. We have all talked about adding disks to an array and using RAID software to create a single large LUN for the HR20. I have a chance to create are REALLY large disk and before I run into other problems want to know if it's worth it/going to work.

I am thinking of a capacity just shy of 4 TB (3.75)....

Thanks for the info.

[Sharkie_Fan]

I haven't done eSATA yet, but I've been looking into it.

Just browsed into the thread that was linked here suggesting that the drives need to be set to 1.5gb/s in order to work properly. If you follow that link to the newegg page that has the thecus drive enclosure listed, there is a review in there from someone who bought a thecus and installed it and claims that the sata card in the enclosure only supports 1.5gb/s. The enclosure itself will support 3gb/s, but the card installed in it currently does not.

I can't find any other information that would prove this true, and the thecus web page claims 3gb/s support using eSATA. So, I have no idea if this particular reviewer knows what he's talking about, but if true, it would help to explain some of the problems people are experiencing when using drives jumpered to 3gb/s....

[P Smith]

Technical question for any DTV Engineer lurking (or someone who can get the question to them)....

What is the max size of eSATA disk connected to HR20. We have all talked about adding disks to an array and using RAID software to create a single large LUN for the HR20. I have a chance to create are REALLY large disk and before I run into other problems want to know if it's worth it/going to work.

I am thinking of a capacity just shy of 4 TB (3.75)....

Thanks for the info.

3.75 TB working now - see the other thread; what you suppose to build ? Case, card, disks models ?
Please show your config in details.

[lorick]

Anyone running the Thecus with the lid ON who has not had problems (related to the Thecus enclosure)?

(oye--I had thought this was the problem free-way to go...)


I am running the Thecus/dual WD 500gb setup and have been recording and watching like crazy. I have had NO problems at all.

On a second note, I have 2 HR20s, one with the Thecus setup and one stock. I have been recording the exact same shows on both as a test. The stock unit has 3% left. The Thecus unit still has 80% available space. Much better then I thought.

I have been running with the Thecus for about 3 weeks and have not had to reboot at all except for the software updates and even then the Thecus was not rebooted.

[oenophile]

I am running the Thecus/dual WD 500gb setup and have been recording and watching like crazy. I have had NO problems at all.

On a second note, I have 2 HR20s, one with the Thecus setup and one stock. I have been recording the exact same shows on both as a test. The stock unit has 3% left. The Thecus unit still has 80% available space. Much better then I thought.

I have been running with the Thecus for about 3 weeks and have not had to reboot at all except for the software updates and even then the Thecus was not rebooted.
Thanks, Lorick. Making me feel better about the Thecus. Any comment from you (or anyone else?) on hoss713's remarks about 1.5gb/s v. 3.0gb/s jumper settings (copied below)? Did you mess with those? (I can't figure out why in the world you'd need to change a setting with a jumper....but....).

(Reason why I care is that neither of my two WD 500GB's came with any jumpers, so I've gotta make a run to Fry's to buy jumpers...not what I want to do unless I have to.)


I just found this thread which suggests that the drives need to be jumpered to 1.5gb rather than 3.0gb to work with the HR20 esata. Can someone confirm or deny?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=70355

Thanks...

lj

Edit: And if I do jumper the drive to revert to 1.5gb, will that cause me to lose my data? (Will the Thecus or HR20 think I've got a new setup and reformat?)

(Side note: Here's a link to the Jumper Diagram for some WD drives. (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1278&p_created=1095958060) Does show one to revert to 1.5gb.)

[rcoleman111]

I've been using the Thecus enclosure for more than a month with no problems. I have 2 500GB Western Digital drives installed in it. I've been through several software upgrades without ever losing any recordings.

[oenophile]

I've been using the Thecus enclosure for more than a month with no problems. I have 2 500GB Western Digital drives installed in it. I've been through several software upgrades without ever losing any recordings.Okay. Thanks. I hate to sound like a broken record, but did you ever set/move the jumpers on your WD drives to bring their SATA II transfer rate down to 150MB/s mode? Or did you leave it as it came from the manufacturer. This link on Western Digital (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1409&p_created=1138290141) implies that all drives come with the 300MB/s mode turned on, so if you didn't change any jumpers, then it works with 300MB/s mode on (it must auto-throttle down to 150MB/s).

I ask because mine came with NO jumpers, so I can't simply set a jumper to the 150MB/s mode, I have to go out and buy a couple of jumpers. If you or anyone has used the WD SE 16's without moving a jumper, I'm all set. If not....

(Please respond if you have any knowledge here. Thanks!)

[lorick]

I took my OEM drives out of the bag and plugged them in. NO JUMPERS. They have been working fine for over 3 weeks.


Okay. Thanks. I hate to sound like a broken record, but did you ever set/move the jumpers on your WD drives to bring their SATA II transfer rate down to 150MB/s mode? Or did you leave it as it came from the manufacturer. This link on Western Digital (http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1409&p_created=1138290141) implies that all drives come with the 300MB/s mode turned on, so if you didn't change any jumpers, then it works with 300MB/s mode on (it must auto-throttle down to 150MB/s).

I ask because mine came with NO jumpers, so I can't simply set a jumper to the 150MB/s mode, I have to go out and buy a couple of jumpers. If you or anyone has used the WD SE 16's without moving a jumper, I'm all set. If not....

(Please respond if you have any knowledge here. Thanks!)

[oenophile]

I took my OEM drives out of the bag and plugged them in. NO JUMPERS. They have been working fine for over 3 weeks.Thank you.

I will do the same and report back.

Also: Am going to keep the cover on the Thecus. It does get hot, so I'll keep an eye on that. Wish there was a way to read the temp.

[P Smith]

Wish you'll go to Fry's and grab one of those termometers matchbox size. ;)

[DVRfreak]

Thank you.

I will do the same and report back.

Also: Am going to keep the cover on the Thecus. It does get hot, so I'll keep an eye on that. Wish there was a way to read the temp.

I have owned Thecus for about 6 months. It was running fine initially with HR20. The problem started about two months ago. HR20 will go back and forth between internal HDD and external Thecus unit. I also lost some video recording material due to this problem. Two weeks ago, I opened up the Thecus system and put a fan directly in front of it. The problem has gone away. I believe Thecus has a coolling problem with this unit. It is simply unacceptable and dangerous to have an open electronic device on my desk. I will have to look for other alternatives. Any recommendation will be very helpful and I will also report my own research in this forum.

[Schmedley]

Over a month ago I installed 2 Samsung 501LJ. with the Thecus 2050. No jumpers, no loss of programs, upgrade 12a, still intermittent "echo audio", one "still frame" with regular audio continuilty for 30 seconds. System runs 24/7 with night time setting on audio channel.

[hoss713]

After doing more research, I believe the jumper setting (3.0 vs 1.5 transfer rate) is a red herring.

I still suspect the real problem is with the HR20 software. Since eSATA is still not officially supported by Directv, it wouldn't surprise me that it still has bugs that they are working out before rolling it out as officially supported.

I first started seeing the problem with 0x12a. Prior to that it was running fine (granted, I only had this setup for 1 week prior to the problems starting). Since the freeze ups started, they have occured with regular frequency. Even after turning the Thecus off for several hours, I've had it freeze up within minutes of turning it back on and rebooting the HR20 to use it, which is why I don't think it's a heat issue.

In the interest of trying some sort of controlled testing, I've currently got it hooked up with the cover off. It's been running for about 2 hours now without a freezeup. I'll leave it this way for about a week before I put the cover back on (without rebooting the HR20) and then see if freezeups come back after the cover is on.

lj

[rcoleman111]

I recall seeing some jumpers on the drives. I don't remember what they were set for, but I didn't change them. As to the cover, I haven't had any heat problems. As long as it's in a location that is reasonably cool and has room for air flow, it shouldn't be a problem.

[hdtvfan0001]

After doing more research, I believe the jumper setting (3.0 vs 1.5 transfer rate) is a red herring.

I still suspect the real problem is with the HR20 software. Since eSATA is still not officially supported by Directv, it wouldn't surprise me that it still has bugs that they are working out before rolling it out as officially supported.

I first started seeing the problem with 0x12a.
lj
The current requirement is to set to 1.5 transfer rate.

My 500GB eSata Seagate drive has been working perfectly through all releases to date, including the most recent CE release.

[freshone]

The current requirement is to set to 1.5 transfer rate

Isn't that the default? You only need the jumpers for 3.0 correct?

[P Smith]

Isn't that the default? You only need the jumpers for 3.0 correct?
You MUST check your disk manual ! By default I'm smoking - should you too ?
:D

[freshone]

You MUST check your disk manual !

Western Digitals - WD5000KS's. Anyone know?

Boy that's gonna piss me off if I have to jump them for 1.5.

Thanks....

[P Smith]

YOu'll need exactrly model name, not the family name.
Check WD web site for a manual or jumper settings.

[hoss713]

The current requirement is to set to 1.5 transfer rate.

My 500GB eSata Seagate drive has been working perfectly through all releases to date, including the most recent CE release.
Aha! Thanks! I take it this means the drive has to be set to this rate and not rely on the backward compatbility of SATA II. (The default on the WD500KS is 3.0 but it's supposed to fall back to 1.5)

Western Digitals - WD5000KS's. Anyone know?

Boy that's gonna piss me off if I have to jump them for 1.5.

Thanks....
For the WD500KS to revert to 150MB/s, you'll need to jumper pins 5 & 6. See the Western Digital website, or check out post #873 in this thread for the link.


Now, does anyone know if changing the transfer rate setting will cause either the drives or the raid enclosure (Thecus N2050) to wipe the data off of the drives?

lj

[swandersen]

Anyone running the Thecus with the lid ON who has not had problems (related to the Thecus enclosure)?

(oye--I had thought this was the problem free-way to go...)

Thecus for 2 months - no problem - fan behind unit however. I have 2 750GB drives.

Scott

[freshone]

Thecus for 2 months - no problem

Scott, you have them set at 1.5 I presume?

[bllreed]

Your though was incorrect. Ppl reported OPPOSITE.

You didn't mean "thought" did you? Just a thought.....:)

[swandersen]

Scott, you have them set at 1.5 I presume?

Yes, 1.5TB

[freshone]

http://www.pcmag.com:80/article2/0,1759,2097242,00.asp?kc=PCMS102049TX1K0100488

Thought you guys would wanna check this out!

[yeungp]

I have two Maxtor 500GB drives in a Thecus N2050. I've only had it plugged in for 1 month so far.

I haven't had any problems, but I haven't really paid attention to how hot its running.

[SubSolar]

Just thought I'd share my experience. Today there was a power outtage (just a few seconds). I thought I had my HR20 and my Thecus on a battery backup but apparently I messed up and just had the Thecus on it. After the power outtage I noticed that all my Recordings were gone (100% free disk space). My Scheduled Recordings and To Do List were still intact though. I power cycled everything a few times (turning the Thecus on for a few seconds before the HR20) with no luck. I also tried a red button reset which didn't do anything. I noticed another problem was that after everything would boot up, the only channel that would work was the one it started up on. Everything else was black. Also, if I booted up without the Thecus it would use the internal drive just fine (had its recordings, could go to any channel). Anyway, I ended up doing a full reset with the Thecus connected and everything seems to work now. I guess the moral of the story is to make sure everything is on the battery backup and to realize that eSata support is not 100% stable yet. I'm still not sure why the power outtage messed things up though, considering the Thecus was on the UPS so the HR20 should have seen it at bootup when the power came back on, right?

Well I woke up yesterday (Wednesday) and this same thing happened. I was more persistent this time in trying to get my playlist back, but to no avail. I red button rebooted, restarted from setup and powered the HR20 and Thecus off and on and nothing worked. I tried these three processes about 7-8 EACH but it would always power on with an empty playlist and if I tried switching channels it would just be gray. In between all these futile reboots I also booted up without the Thecus and it was fine, showed my old playlist from December and I could change channels. I have both the HR20 and the Thecus on a new 750 battery backup with nothing else on it. When I tried powercycling, I would power off both the HR20 and Thecus, unplug the power cord to the HR20 and the Thecus, plug the power back into the Thecus, turn on the Thecus, wait about 10 seconds, then finally plug the HR20 back in. The fan on the Thecus is still running and the box doesn't seem hot. I don't know why this keeps happening to me, last time there was a power outtage and I didn't have it on a UPS. Maybe they changed something with esata in the latest update? This same thing happened to me on the 14th or 15th of January. By the way, I finally did a Reset All and everything is working again. I lost all my recordings but now it's using the Thecus to record (I can tell by the disk free percentage).

[P Smith]

Then forgive us to by laziness for do not typing again and again same procedure ("grocery list") :D

SubSolar, I would suggest ( when Thecus wasn't hot ) make disk check on your PC. Something fishy there.

[SubSolar]

Oh yeah I forgot to add that it the terabyte was full, new recordings were replacing old ones. I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

[oenophile]

Forgive my laziness, but going through 36 pages of posts to find out "the basics" for hooking up an external drive (or drives) to my HR20 is exhausting. Is there any way a simple step-by-step guide (or at least a "grocery list") can be posted for those of us not quite as technically savvy as the rest of you? It would be much appreciated.Look at the very first post in the thread.

[P Smith]

Oh yeah I forgot to add that it the terabyte was full, new recordings were replacing old ones. I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
You jumping too fast :D; ask first - wait for responses, then take your pick.
Now it's too late after you did reformat the array (?).

[focker]

I have read through the post and understand HOW to hook up the drives but I would like to know if I am considering something between 500-750mb which drive would be considered the favorite and where should I shop for it.
Thanks in advance ;)!

[swandersen]

I have read through the post and understand HOW to hook up the drives but I would like to know if I am considering something between 500-750mb which drive would be considered the favorite and where should I shop for it.
Thanks in advance ;)!

Realize you lose 100 GB to D* software and related items.

So if you get a Seagate 500GB enclosure already built eSATA you have increased your storage from the 320GB in the unit (320-100=220GB) to roughly 400GB (500-100=400 ) for a 80% increase or so.

If you go with a unit like the Thecus, it requires 2 drives to work so you could shop for the best going from 250x2, 300x2 to 400x2, 500x2 or 750x2 (like me).

I like the Seagates for speed and noise, heat, etc. Make sure they are SATA!!

For the prepackaged Seagate SATA unit - search the web. For a home-built unit I would do the same - if it requires two drives like the Thecus, make sure they are the same size and model. You can find so good/great deals in local superstores or web - just watch and buy depending on you storage goals.

Have fun!

Scott

[P Smith]

Practically speaking, if your enclosure have eSATA connector, internal interface doesn't matter - SCSI, SCA, PATA, SATA or fiber ;). Or ST-506 :D

[focker]

So if this would work pretty well I may spring for one?
Seagate ST3500601XS-RK 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache eSATA External Hard Drive

Should I find the jumpers and throttle it down to 1.5?

[P Smith]

You'll test it and will tell us ;).

[oenophile]

So if this would work pretty well I may spring for one?
Seagate ST3500601XS-RK 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache eSATA External Hard Drive

Should I find the jumpers and throttle it down to 1.5?There have been a bunch of posts on this subject, but from what I can tell they're all guessing on the jumper issue. My sig shows my drives, and I've not jumpered them at all and they're working fine. Here's what I'd do --> If they come with jumpers, go ahead and jumper down to 1.5 (can't hurt). If they don't come with jumpers, try it without the jumpers--they'll probably work.

[Schmedley]

3 months have passed and the Thecus fan is starting to make noise. What is the best procedure for powering down and replacement of the fan?

[P Smith]

It should be posted in separate thread, but follow same procedure what using for PC many years.

[oenophile]

3 months have passed and the Thecus fan is starting to make noise. What is the best procedure for powering down and replacement of the fan?Don't know if someone's actually done this before. I haven't. I have built/rebuilt my share of computers though...so here's my thoughts FWIW:

Preliminarily - You might try calling Thecus and seeing if they can help you by sending you out a new fan and giving you instructions to set it up. Are you under warranty? That really is, by far and away your best option. If that doesn't work...

First: Put HR20 in standby (make sure you're not recording anything)
Second: Unplug HR20
Third: Note the direction the fan in the Thecus blows -- I assume it blows air out, not in, but worth confirming.
Fourth: Turn off Thecus using the buttons on the front of the unit.
Fifth: Ground yourself properly or wear a grounding wire on your risk if you want to be extra safe.
Sixth: Unscrew the lid of the thecus.
Seventh: Measure the size of the fan and confirm my assumption that it is a standard PC-Fan power connector (I'm 95% sure). Note the direction ta
Eighth: Go to NewEgg or another similar source and find the quietest same-sized fan that outputs the same amount of air. One thing you want to be sure of is to avoid buying a fan that puts out less air. Unfortunately, I'm not expert enough to determine how much air the Thecus fan puts out. It *may* have a CFM number on the fan itself, or it may say in the manual or you may be able to find out by writing Thecus? Maybe someone here has an idea how to figure this out. I would, though, spend extra to buy the quietest possible fan that outputs that level of air.
Ninth: Buy/Order the fan. (you can put your HR20 back online now assuming the old fan is still operational; take it back apart when it arrives--try to pay attention to how much air it puts out to ensure you don't wind up with less air)
Tenth: Unplug the old fan from the Thecus circuit board.
Eleventh: Unscrew the old fan.
Twelfth: Screw back in the new fan and plug it in.
Thirteenth: Turn back on the Thecus (not the HR20) and let the fan run. Pay very careful attention to it. How does it sound? air moving right direction? enough air?
Fourteenth: Put it all back together and turn on HR20 per proper method.
Fifteenth: Very closely monitor the new setup for a few days--assume it breaks so that if it does you're ready for it.

Well...that's what I can think of. I'm certain there are more than a few folks here with better ideas and/or criticisms of the above. Please chime in and improve upon this. YMMV

PLEASE post back and let us know what you do.

*Note: I am not an expert and do expressly disclaim any liability for any damages if you follow the above. Please do not do this unless you, yourself, are very comfortable and experienced in this area and please do not rely upon the above.

[Schmedley]

I think that I should find a new and better fan since the Thecus fan is wearing out so fast - then I will proceed, thanks oenophile.

[taw123]

I am setting up and testing an eSATA array and wanted to point it out to folks on the list sharing the knowledge and perhaps getting some help from any other experts (or hopefully even one of the DTV Engineers who are rumored to be lurking out there). I would also like to put a suggestion out there that we get a short summary of how to bootstrap an eSATA array on the HR20. This should be a sticky at the beginning of the topic, as we have all seen every day or 2 someone ask how to set it up, get it formated, what to do after the power fails, and what is the best practice for boot process. I am willing to contribute if it would help, and would suggest someone mine the thread for relevant info and put this up as a strawman. Again, I am willing to help if folks think this is a good idea and are willing to pitch in.

I have SansDigital MobileRAID MR5CT1 (http://www.sansdigital.com/MR5CT1.html). It's a 5 drive SATA bay array. Supporting multiple RAID levels including RAID 5 & 6 and the use of a Hot Spare (for background recovery). The array is built around the Intel 80219 I/O processor. It is a bit expensive to use for the purpose we are discussing here but we all know prices change over time and technology evolves. It's a fun industry to be in and has served me well over the years.

Into this array I am adding 5 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA 3.0Gb/s 750-GB Hard Drive 16 MB cache- ST3750640AS)- http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=Barracuda_7200.10_SATA_750.3_GB&vgnextoid=e2af99f4fa74c010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&vgnextchannel=a32a2f290c5fb010VgnVCM100000dd04090a RCRD&reqPage=Model The drives are rated to 3Gig but the eSATA array only goes to 150 MB/sec so I don't have to worry about all the questions about jumpering down to 1.5.

Now the questions.
1- What is the limit on the size of the volume that the DVR can address. Specifically support for large volumes (ie 3.75 TB), Some OS's only support addressing to 2TB volumes.
2-Is Tagged queueing support on the Host/DVR ?
3-Any suggestions for the RAID Strip size given the profile of the read/write transactions? Is is more likely to profile like large block sequential transfer or more randomly? Not sure if one would also take into account the drive profile, but I have coved that it has a 16M onboard cache.

I am going to build the array as a RAID 6 array with 4 drives and a single Hot Spare. And will summarize me results for the group and really would appreciate any answers to the 3 questions I cited above. Thanks in advance for the help, we all learn together.




__________________________________________________ ________________________
Thomas Weyer email: weyer@apple.com
Sr Consulting Engineer- Servers & Storage
Field Engineering, U.S. Education

Apple
1 Infinite Loop http://www.apple.com/education
Cupertino, CA, 95014, USA http://www.apple.com

"Vision without action is daydream. Action without vision is nightmare."
-- Japanese proverb

[eagles1899]

Has anyone replaced the Thecus fan with a new one? If yes, could you share the fan specs (e.g. voltage, size, etc.)? Thanks.

[oenophile]

Has anyone replaced the Thecus fan with a new one? If yes, could you share the fan specs (e.g. voltage, size, etc.)? Thanks.IMHO, if we have to replace the fans, the Thecus is the wrong enclosure to use. Has anyone tried calling the manufacturer about this?

(Why are you replacing the fan or thinking about it?)

Oh, and it looks like a standard PC fan connector so it *should* be a standard PC fan voltage.

[hoss713]

...
I have SansDigital MobileRAID MR5CT1 (http://www.sansdigital.com/MR5CT1.html).
...
I'd be really interested in the noise level you get with this. Others have reported that the 2 drive version is too noisy to use with the DVR.

lj

[weez]

I've got all my gear in a large, ventilated closet so it doesn't matter how it looks. The Thecus fan was still very noisy (even behind the wall I could still hear it over dialog on tv). So I removed the built-in fan, keep the top off the enclosure, and keep a small $6 fan I got at Target blowing over it. It's lots more airflow than the original fan, the hard drive bracket is relatively cool to the touch, and it's quite a bit more quiet than the original. My concern was this setup won't blow air between the hard drives, but it's been working fine for a couple weeks now. I suppose I could make some sort of shroud to direct the air into the original vent to keep the same airflow pattern...

taw123 -- I'm also interested in noise level with the MR5CT1.

[eagles1899]

(Why are you replacing the fan or thinking about it?)

Oh, and it looks like a standard PC fan connector so it *should* be a standard PC fan voltage.


Like someone else reported here, the fan in my Thecus has become noisier over time. I've been running my HR20 on the Thecus for about 4 months.

[oenophile]

Like someone else reported here, the fan in my Thecus has become noisier over time. I've been running my HR20 on the Thecus for about 4 months.Ah. That makes sense. The problem is that the fan is very small--and it is very difficult to find a fan that small that is quiet. Thankfully, I have mine positioned behind my flat panel TV, and I think the flat panel blocks most of the noise from the fan.

If someone does actually replace the Thecus fan, please post back here your experience.

By the way, if you switch RAID enclosures, I believe you lose the data on the drives. I could be wrong about this...can anyone confirm?

(This is relevant because once you pick the Thecus, or whatever...you're sort of stuck with it, right?)

[hoss713]

I've had mixed luck using the Thecus N2050 and various hard drives. Right now I have 2 WD500AAKS (OEM version of WD500KS) drives in it both jumpered at 1.5 and configured as RAID 0 (I want size and not drive failure protection).

They seem to work for a few hours and then the orange light on the Thecus comes on and stays on (even if the HR20 is not recording the Thecus orange light stays on). At that point, the HR20 cannot play anything on the drives, nor can it access the live buffer (can't rewind).

The only way to clear this is to reboot the HR20 and power cycle the Thecus.

Has anyone else expericenced this - and are there any ideas what's wrong and how to fix?

Thanks...

lj

[oenophile]

I've had mixed luck using the Thecus N2050 and various hard drives. Right now I have 2 WD500AAKS (OEM version of WD500KS) drives in it both jumpered at 1.5 and configured as RAID 0 (I want size and not drive failure protection).

They seem to work for a few hours and then the orange light on the Thecus comes on and stays on (even if the HR20 is not recording the Thecus orange light stays on). At that point, the HR20 cannot play anything on the drives, nor can it access the live buffer (can't rewind).

The only way to clear this is to reboot the HR20 and power cycle the Thecus.

Has anyone else expericenced this - and are there any ideas what's wrong and how to fix?

Thanks...

ljI have the exact drives, I believe. I did not jumper them at all (just left them with no jumpers). You should not need to jumper them, but, presuming you've jumpered correctly, it shouldn't hurt either. For me, works great, no problems. (Started using 2/19/07.)

My guess is you either have a bad drive or a bad Thecus unit or a bad fan in the unit or that the unit is otherwise overheating (lack of ventilation?). Have you tried hooking it up to your computer and running diagnostics?

Are you under warranty or return period? Might be worth returning everything and re-ordering new ones.

[Schmedley]

Ah. That makes sense. The problem is that the fan is very small--and it is very difficult to find a fan that small that is quiet. Thankfully, I have mine positioned behind my flat panel TV, and I think the flat panel blocks most of the noise from the fan.

If someone does actually replace the Thecus fan, please post back here your experience.

By the way, if you switch RAID enclosures, I believe you lose the data on the drives. I could be wrong about this...can anyone confirm?

(This is relevant because once you pick the Thecus, or whatever...you're sort of stuck with it, right?

I thought I had a bad fan (earlier post ), not so. I found it was vibration and put a small piece of bubble-rap under and, walla, "fan was good again".:uglyhamme

The Thecus case is only warm but I am using two Samsung 350gb which only spin one disk at a time. Less power, less heat.

[hoss713]

I have the exact drives, I believe. I did not jumper them at all (just left them with no jumpers). You should not need to jumper them, but, presuming you've jumpered correctly, it shouldn't hurt either. For me, works great, no problems. (Started using 2/19/07.)

My guess is you either have a bad drive or a bad Thecus unit or a bad fan in the unit or that the unit is otherwise overheating (lack of ventilation?). Have you tried hooking it up to your computer and running diagnostics?

Are you under warranty or return period? Might be worth returning everything and re-ordering new ones.

I really doubt the need to jumper (as they are supposed to be backword compatible with 1.5 controllers) but I did so anyway trying to solve my problems.

I've tried other drives with the same result so I believe the drives aren't the problem.

I've also left the cover off to see if cooling was a problem, but have found that the problem still occurs.

I'm left to think there is a problem with the Thecus - but I'm past my 30 days exchange/return period...

I just wish I could get this working! :bang

lj

[oenophile]

I really doubt the need to jumper (as they are supposed to be backword compatible with 1.5 controllers) but I did so anyway trying to solve my problems.

I've tried other drives with the same result so I believe the drives aren't the problem.

I've also left the cover off to see if cooling was a problem, but have found that the problem still occurs.

I'm left to think there is a problem with the Thecus - but I'm past my 30 days exchange/return period...

I just wish I could get this working! :bang

ljYou should call Thecus, presuming you are under warranty. They may even just send you a new one (and require you to return old post-receipt of new one).

[lucky13]

Now that the updates are implementing more of the advanced features and our Wish List items, we may be near the time when ESATA will be fully supported; i.e., it will work in addition to, not in place of, the internal drive.

I recall reading in one of these posts (perhaps it was just speculation) that when the drives are combined, the full capacity of the ESATA will be available; you won't loss 100 GB from the internal drive and another 100 GB from the external.

Will that require any reformating of the external disk? If the next update integrates the two drives, will we lose all content on the ESATA?

Apologies if this has been asked and answered.

[rcoleman111]

I've had mixed luck using the Thecus N2050 and various hard drives. Right now I have 2 WD500AAKS (OEM version of WD500KS) drives in it both jumpered at 1.5 and configured as RAID 0 (I want size and not drive failure protection).

They seem to work for a few hours and then the orange light on the Thecus comes on and stays on (even if the HR20 is not recording the Thecus orange light stays on). At that point, the HR20 cannot play anything on the drives, nor can it access the live buffer (can't rewind).

The only way to clear this is to reboot the HR20 and power cycle the Thecus.

Has anyone else expericenced this - and are there any ideas what's wrong and how to fix?


I have the Thecus and 2 WD drives. Mine was working flawlessly for since I installed it in January, but I had a similar problem the other day. At first it appeared that the HR20 was locked up, so I did a RBR. When it came back up it was seeing the internal drive instead of the Thecus. Then I saw that the 2 LEDs for HDD1 were flashing alternately in orange, which indicates a drive failure if I'm reading the manual correctly. I shut off both the HR20 and Thecus and unplugged the power from them, then powered them on again. This time, everything went back to normal and I could see all of the programming on the external storage system.

I'm not sure at this point if one of those new disks is starting to go bad or if there is a problem with the Thecus enclosure. It's been about 4 days and there have been no further problems. I guess we'll see. I sure hope I don't lose all of my programming.

[eagles1899]

Ah. That makes sense. The problem is that the fan is very small--and it is very difficult to find a fan that small that is quiet. Thankfully, I have mine positioned behind my flat panel TV, and I think the flat panel blocks most of the noise from the fan.

If someone does actually replace the Thecus fan, please post back here your experience.

Replaced mine with a Link Depot DC Fan from Fry's for $6. The specs listed are: size 40*40*10mm, current 0.11A, airflow 6.8CFM, speed 7000rpm, power 1.32W, voltage 12VDC, noise 27dBA, one ball bearing.

Subjectively, the new fan seems even a bit louder than the original Thecus fan (which had become noisier than when new), but the airflow is noticeably stronger than the Thecus fan also. Since the hard drives were hot to the touch when I removed them from the Thecus enclosure to replace the fan, I will run with the new fan for now.

[Kadex]

Hello everyone,

First time poster to the forums here but have been following the HR20 development. I am painfully waiting for a HR20 install on April 7th.

I'm just curious, with this weak fan on the Thecus, is there room or maybe possible to mod the case or lid to be able to fit a 80mm or even 120mm fan? Could get better airflow and be even quieter. Just a thought and something I might consider if anyone thinks there's room to do so.

Thanks

[hoss713]

I think it's safe to say that the problems I've been experiencing have not been the Thecus or drives I've been using.

I picked up a WD "My Book" 500GB eSATA drive today from Best Buy. This is a single drive in an eSATA enclosure - NO RAID.

It started fine, drive was formatted and the HR20 booted up. It was recording a standard def show and I was watching another show on HDNET Hi-Def (78). I paused it for about 40-50 minutes and when I came back it was frozen the same way as my Thecus.

I could access the HR20 menu, but no trick-play, live buffer, and I could not play anything in the playlist. I could change channels, but it took about 30 seconds to do so. Still no live buffer, trick play or anything else that meant reading from the eSATA hard drive. I rebooted and it came back just as bad.

Sounds like they still have some real significant bugs to work out before it's near reliable.

The weird thing is that this was working for me for about 15-20 days before it went into this state where it wouldn't even make it through a day...

lj

[P Smith]

And your SW version is ?

[hoss713]

And your SW version is ?

0x13d (it's in my signature) - I guess I could have made it more prominent...

lj

[P Smith]

Can you sacrifice it and go back to 0x0134 for tests ?

[hoss713]

Can you sacrifice it and go back to 0x0134 for tests ?

Yes. I'll go back to 134 tomorrow morning (PST).

lj

[raven56706]

how much time will i get with a 750 gb esata calavry?

[hoss713]

Can you sacrifice it and go back to 0x0134 for tests ?

Okay, I'm back at 0x0134.

- Put the HR20 in standby (Power button on remote).
- Unplugged the HR20.
- Attached the eSATA cable, plugged in the eSATA drive,
then powered up the HR20 after about 10 seconds to let the drive spin up.

Unit came up using the eSATA drive.

I selected a standard def program to record from the guide which was starting in the next 10 minutes.

I tuned to HDNET Hi-Def (78) and then paused the live playback. About 50 minutes later, I went back to play back. It was virtually frozen. It attempted to playback, but only looped about 1/2 second of the buffer, then the playback froze up completely.

I could access the menu and it was quite sluggish, but nothing that needed to read from the eSATA drive worked.

Edit: I'm planning on doing a complete reset (including guided setup) of the HR20 after leaving it off for 30-60 minutes unless you want me to try something different.

lj

[hoss713]

how much time will i get with a 750 gb esata calavry?

See previous posts. You lose about 100 to D*. Also a 750GB drive is UNFORMATTED, you probably only get about 690GB FORMATTED.

lj

[oenophile]

Replaced mine with a Link Depot DC Fan from Fry's for $6. The specs listed are: size 40*40*10mm, current 0.11A, airflow 6.8CFM, speed 7000rpm, power 1.32W, voltage 12VDC, noise 27dBA, one ball bearing.

Subjectively, the new fan seems even a bit louder than the original Thecus fan (which had become noisier than when new), but the airflow is noticeably stronger than the Thecus fan also. Since the hard drives were hot to the touch when I removed them from the Thecus enclosure to replace the fan, I will run with the new fan for now.This is great info. Thanks for posting back. Please keep posting in a month or so how it is going.

I'm not having any problems, but if I were I might be tempted to do this or...alternatively, put a 90mm fan on top of the unit (after removing lid).

[DubMarc]

Yep, thanks for the info. I ordered a Thecus and a couple WD 500 GB drives before the recent rash of Thecus issues. Rather than go through the return process, I decided to just install them today :sure: . So far, so good!

[texboy]

I'm having a problem with my Thecus N2050. I hope someone can help. I wanted to watch a show that was recorded and I noticed the 2 Blue LED lights on the front were not on and HR20 did not see the external drive. So I turned the HR20 off and also the Thecus and took the esata cord off my HR20 and reconnected the drive. Rebooted the HR20 and still no external drive was seen and no lights on the 2050. I also noticed that if I unplugged the esata cord from the back of 2050 unit the hard drive lights came on. Any help?

[oenophile]

I'm having a problem with my Thecus N2050. I hope someone can help. I wanted to watch a show that was recorded and I noticed the 2 Blue LED lights on the front were not on and HR20 did not see the external drive. So I turned the HR20 off and also the Thecus and took the esata cord off my HR20 and reconnected the drive. Rebooted the HR20 and still no external drive was seen and no lights on the 2050. I also noticed that if I unplugged the esata cord from the back of 2050 unit the hard drive lights came on. Any help?After trying to reconnect to the HR20 in a standard way....the first thing you, or anyone else with a problem with a RAID array, should do is hook it up to a PC and confirm the array and the drive are working. If they are...you may have a problem with the HR20 connector or the HR20 itself. If they are not....you know the problem is with either the array or the drives themselves and you hopefully can run diagnostics on them. If you find it is the HR20 and not the RAID array....try doing RBR...or unplugging the HR20 for five minutes, then turning on the RAID array, then turning on the HR20 after the RAID array is active....?

[eagles1899]

I'm having a problem with my Thecus N2050. I hope someone can help. I wanted to watch a show that was recorded and I noticed the 2 Blue LED lights on the front were not on and HR20 did not see the external drive. So I turned the HR20 off and also the Thecus and took the esata cord off my HR20 and reconnected the drive. Rebooted the HR20 and still no external drive was seen and no lights on the 2050. I also noticed that if I unplugged the esata cord from the back of 2050 unit the hard drive lights came on. Any help?

I actually ran into this the first time I tried using the Thecus N2050 with my HR20. Eventually I got it working by unplugging the cable from the powered on Thecus while the cable was plugged in to the powered on HR20, plugging the cable back into the Thecus, then doing a reset of the HR20. Initially I was hesitant to do this because I wasn't sure if eSATA was hot-pluggable like USB, but I ran out of ideas. Well, it worked.

[eagles1899]

The Link Depot fan just seems too noisy now that I've run it for a couple of days. I will try to look for a more quiet fan that has better airflow than the original fan.

[rcoleman111]

I had the same problem with my Thecus that I had last week. I noticed it wasn't recording anything and the LEDs were flashing abnormally. Last week, the LEDs were flashing to indicate a failure with HDD1. I was able to get everything working again by unplugging power from both the HR20 and Thecus and then powering them on again.

When this happened last week, I thought it might be a disk going bad, but this time it was HDD2. Same symptoms - the power LED blinking blue and the activity LED blinking green. Again I was able to get everything working again without any data loss by power-cycling both the Thecus and HR20. It has to be a problem with the Thecus.

Has anyone else had this problem.

[Cyrus]

I selected a standard def program to record from the guide which was starting in the next 10 minutes.

I tuned to HDNET Hi-Def (78) and then paused the live playback. About 50 minutes later, I went back to play back. It was virtually frozen. It attempted to playback, but only looped about 1/2 second of the buffer, then the playback froze up completely.

I could access the menu and it was quite sluggish, but nothing that needed to read from the eSATA drive worked.


Does the same thing happen if you use the internal drive?

[hoss713]

Does the same thing happen if you use the internal drive?

Nope only happens when accessing the eSATA drive (both the Thecus RAID and the single WD external eSATA drive).

lj

[eagles1899]

I had the same problem with my Thecus that I had last week. I noticed it wasn't recording anything and the LEDs were flashing abnormally. Last week, the LEDs were flashing to indicate a failure with HDD1. I was able to get everything working again by unplugging power from both the HR20 and Thecus and then powering them on again.

When this happened last week, I thought it might be a disk going bad, but this time it was HDD2. Same symptoms - the power LED blinking blue and the activity LED blinking green. Again I was able to get everything working again without any data loss by power-cycling both the Thecus and HR20. It has to be a problem with the Thecus.

Has anyone else had this problem.

This happened to me once, with indication of HDD1 failure. I did what you did, full power cycling of both Thecus and HR20, and the combo worked again and the issue has not come up again, so far.

[eagles1899]

Replaced mine with a Link Depot DC Fan from Fry's for $6. The specs listed are: size 40*40*10mm, current 0.11A, airflow 6.8CFM, speed 7000rpm, power 1.32W, voltage 12VDC, noise 27dBA, one ball bearing.

Subjectively, the new fan seems even a bit louder than the original Thecus fan (which had become noisier than when new), but the airflow is noticeably stronger than the Thecus fan also. Since the hard drives were hot to the touch when I removed them from the Thecus enclosure to replace the fan, I will run with the new fan for now.

The Link Depot fan was just too noisy.

I found an Evercool EC4010 fan (http://www.evercool.com.tw/products/fan_4010.htm) on Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119049), with specs: speed 5000rpm, airflow 6.24CFM, noise <21dBA. Newegg charges $3 plus $5 shipping, but it is out of stock.

I found the same model fan at a local Micro Center store (http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos_single_product_results.phtml?product_id=25315 1), with different packaging (http://www.aocusa.com/evercool/index.php?model=FAN-EC4010M12CA), for $7 plus tax.

Installed the new Evercool fan tonight. It is definitely quite a bit more quiet than the Link Depot fan (spec 21dBA vs. 27dBA) , but the airflow seems quite a bit weaker as well (spec 6.24CFM vs. 6.8CFM).

When I took the HD tray out of the Thecus for swapping out the Link Depot fan with the Evercool fan, the HD tray was somewhat hot to the touch, so maybe the slightly stronger airflow of the Link Depot fan (compared to the original Thecus fan) didn't really help cool down the HD's much more, so I will use the Evercool fan since it is not as noisy.

[texboy]

Thanks for the ideas!!!!! I was able to get everything working by unplugging power from both the HR20 and Thecus and then powering them on again.

[rcoleman111]

Thanks for the ideas!!!!! I was able to get everything working by unplugging power from both the HR20 and Thecus and then powering them on again.

This is certainly a cause for concern - a number of people are having this same issue. The only good thing about it is that we aren't losing our data. Can you tell me what model disks you are using? There may be a firmware issue that is causing disks to go offline when used with the Thecus. Mine are the 500GB Western Digital drives (I'll have to dig up the paperwork to get the exact model of the drives).

There is a disk compatibility list on the Thecus site, but it doesn't list any of the WD 500GB disks as having been tested:

http://www.thecus.com/download/other/N2050HDDCompatibilityReport-951003.pdf

I also don't see any firmware updates for the Thecus.

[eagles1899]

This is certainly a cause for concern - a number of people are having this same issue. The only good thing about it is that we aren't losing our data. Can you tell me what model disks you are using? There may be a firmware issue that is causing disks to go offline when used with the Thecus. Mine are the 500GB Western Digital drives (I'll have to dig up the paperwork to get the exact model of the drives).

There is a disk compatibility list on the Thecus site, but it doesn't list any of the WD 500GB disks as having been tested:

http://www.thecus.com/download/other/N2050HDDCompatibilityReport-951003.pdf

I also don't see any firmware updates for the Thecus.

I have a pair of WD5000KS. The Thecus N2050 uses a Silicon Image SiL4723 chipset. According to Silicon Image's compatibility chart (http://www.siliconimage.com/docs/DOC-002000-451_SteelVineCompatibility_REV_5.pdf), WD5000KS with firmware 07.02E.07 was tested and compatible. I don't remember if the firmware version was listed on my HD's or not.

[texboy]

I have 2 Seagate Barracuda ST3500641AS 500GB.

[John4924]

Question: I have a 500GB USB 2.0 LaCie drive just lying around. Is there anyway to make this work with this eSATA port on the HR20?

Thanks,
John

[AlbertZeroK]

Question: I have a 500GB USB 2.0 LaCie drive just lying around. Is there anyway to make this work with this eSATA port on the HR20?

Thanks,
John

nope, it has to have an eSATA port on it.

[Tom Robertson]

nope, it has to have an eSATA port on it.

And I haven't found a USB converter to estata (have found one going the other way.)

Cheers,
Tom

[Clint Lamor]

You could always take the drive in it out and put it in another enclosure. They aren't that expensive and can be found at places like Newegg. I have an external 2.5" SATA to USB 1.1/2.0/eSATA enclosure that has the largest Laptop SATA drive I could find in it. I use it all the time.

[John4924]

You could always take the drive in it out and put it in another enclosure. They aren't that expensive and can be found at places like Newegg. I have an external 2.5" SATA to USB 1.1/2.0/eSATA enclosure that has the largest Laptop SATA drive I could find in it. I use it all the time.

This drive does not come out of the case. I would have to bust it open, which I do not want to do. I did some research and found a Western Digital WD My Book Premium ES Edition External 500GB for less than $200 at buy.com

Has anyone tried one of these?

[LDLemu4U]

Fantom Drives G-Force MegaDisk 1.0TB 7200RPM USB 2.0 - MDU1000


Have somebody tried this. It is on sale at Buy.com for $299.99 after rebate. For 1TB that's very cheap.

[P Smith]

You'll need eSATA interface !

[John4924]

Fantom Drives G-Force MegaDisk 1.0TB 7200RPM USB 2.0 - MDU1000


Have somebody tried this. It is on sale at Buy.com for $299.99 after rebate. For 1TB that's very cheap.

I have looked for an interface between USB 2.0 and eSata and could not find one. Let us know if you do.

Cheers,
John

[LDLemu4U]

Saw this at Ebay and has a "Buy It Price" for $180 plus $13 shipping

Assembled:

Mediasonic Smart Drive 3.5" SATA HDD External Enclosure - eSATA & USB 2.0 - HD6-SU2S2

Western Digital 500GB SATA 16MB 7200RPM Hard Drive (WD5000KS)

Complete Spec:

Specification


Interface
USB 2.0 & eSATA / I
Supporting Hard Drive
Support 3.5” eSATA / I Hard Disk Drive up to 1000GB (All Brand)
Chipset
JMicron
External Connectors
1 External eSATA
1 External USB 2.0
Data Transfer Rate:
eSATA transfer rate up to 3.0Gbps
USB 2.0 transfer rate up to 480Mbps
Supporting Operating System
Microsoft Windows 98SE / ME / 2000, or XP, and MAC OS 9.2 or later (USB Only)

AC Power Adapter
Input: 100V – 240V ~50/60Hz Max 1.5A; 75~100VA
Output: 5V – 2A, 12 V – 2A. Dual power output to protect HDD
CE, FCC, UL, EMI/EMS, PSE, JET, GS, CCC
Partition Format
NTFS or FAT 16 / 32
Support multiple partition
Hard Disk Drive Jumper Setting
Master / Single
Product Dimension
118(W) x 208(L) x 32(H) mm
Weight
380g (Exclude hard disk)
Safety Specification
FCC, CE
Product Origin
Taiwan





Features
• Interchangeable connectivity using eSATA or USB 2.0
• eSATA data transfer rates up to 3.0Gbps
• USB 2.0 data transfer rate up to 480Mbps (backwards compatible with USB 1.1)
• Hot-swappable
• Compatible with all brand of 3.5-inch 1.5Gbps & 3.0Gpbs SATA hard disk drive
• Removable inside tray for easy installation
• LED status indicators
• Plug and Play for PC / Mac (USB Only)
• On / Off Power Switch
• Vertical Stand
Designed to hold your external hard drive in a vertical orientation, our vertical stand frees up valuable space on your desk.
• Aluminum Construction
Known for its exceptional properties for being lightweight, high rigidity and superior heat dissipation capabilities, aluminum is an obvious choice when it comes to constructing a quality hard drive enclosure, especially with the excess heat generated from the high-speed hard drives available in the market.



Package Includes

• HD6-SU2S2 Enclosure + WD 500GB Hard Drive

• USB 2.0 Cable (1M)
• eSATA Cable
• eSATA to SATA I Adapter
• Power Adapter & Power Cord
• Vertical Stand
• Screws for HDD


Warranty: 3 year warranty.







Will this work?

[Kevin L]

Hi, all.

Haven't ordered any HR20s yet (have three HR10s), but in anticipation of doing so, I ordered the following eSATA hard drive at buy.com

Cavalry 500GB - USB 2.0 & eSATA Dual Interface 7200RPM External Hard Drive - CAXM37500 (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=203268361&adid=17070&dcaid=17070)

for $149.95 less $12 mail-in rebate with free shipping. Don't know how good it will be, but if it doesn't work out it can still be used with a PC as it comes with a PCI eSATA card and has a USB 2.0 interface as well.

Kevin

[funhouse69]

Hey everyone - I'm new to the site and completed hooked already :) I got my HR20 less than a week ago and it seems like I got in at a good time. I've noticed a few little quirks here and there but so far so good. Anyway 2 days after I got it based on this thread I connected an external Drive to it using a cheap eSATA Enclosure I got from Newegg.com. This was a "Test" using a 500GB SATA II Seagate Drive I had and it worked perfectly. Since then I've ordered a 750GB Drive as the 500 was borrowed from an array that is being expanded. I should have them by Friday.

The reason I'm posting is to Let everyone know that the addition of the external drive went perfectly. As mentioned I powered off the HR20, connected the eSATA cable, powered up the enclosure then the HR20. To me it didn't seem to take more time than usual to "Come up" but I was most certainly using the external drive.

This is the new enclosure I went with that has a built in fan as the Seagate 750's do tend to run hot!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121022

Secondly - check out this enclosure that they just added on the NewEgg.com site. This claims to be a RAID 5 capable eSATA enclosure for a relatively good price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816119007

Does anyone know anything about this unit? It seems so new that there aren't even any reviews on it as of yet.

Thanks again and keep up the good work!!!

[John4924]

Hey everyone - I'm new to the site and completed hooked already :) I got my HR20 less than a week ago and it seems like I got in at a good time. I've noticed a few little quirks here and there but so far so good. Anyway 2 days after I got it based on this thread I connected an external Drive to it using a cheap eSATA Enclosure I got from Newegg.com. This was a "Test" using a 500GB SATA II Seagate Drive I had and it worked perfectly. Since then I've ordered a 750GB Drive as the 500 was borrowed from an array that is being expanded. I should have them by Friday.

The reason I'm posting is to Let everyone know that the addition of the external drive went perfectly. As mentioned I powered off the HR20, connected the eSATA cable, powered up the enclosure then the HR20. To me it didn't seem to take more time than usual to "Come up" but I was most certainly using the external drive.

This is the new enclosure I went with that has a built in fan as the Seagate 750's do tend to run hot!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121022

Secondly - check out this enclosure that they just added on the NewEgg.com site. This claims to be a RAID 5 capable eSATA enclosure for a relatively good price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816119007

Does anyone know anything about this unit? It seems so new that there aren't even any reviews on it as of yet.

Thanks again and keep up the good work!!!

This is the one I am considering for about the same price...

http://www.cooldrives.com/saiipomu55hd1.html

This one has a much larger power supply, and dual cooling fans.

Has anyone out there tried one of these, and if so, how is it working?

Thanks,
John

[funhouse69]

This is the one I am considering for about the same price...

http://www.cooldrives.com/saiipomu55hd1.html

This one has a much larger power supply, and dual cooling fans.

Has anyone out there tried one of these, and if so, how is it working?

Thanks,
John

John - I checked the one you mentioned out and it looks like the "Host" or system that you connect this to has to have a controller that supports the Port Multiplier which I'm guessing the HR20 does not. With that in mind this might not work at all or you might only be able to access one of the drives which really defeats the purpose doesn't it?

[John4924]

John - I checked the one you mentioned out and it looks like the "Host" or system that you connect this to has to have a controller that supports the Port Multiplier which I'm guessing the HR20 does not. With that in mind this might not work at all or you might only be able to access one of the drives which really defeats the purpose doesn't it?
I am thinking that if you configure this in a RAID 0, the HR20 will only "see" this as a single disk. Can someone out there with lots of experience please comment on this?

Much appreciated :)
John

[funhouse69]

I am thinking that if you configure this in a RAID 0, the HR20 will only "see" this as a single disk. Can someone out there with lots of experience please comment on this?

Much appreciated :)
John

John - Normally I would agree with you but I think that the references in the description specifically mention that this needs to be connected to a controller that supports the multiplexed drives is where the issue is.

It is a great idea to ask the knowledgeable folks on this site - hopefully someone has more experience with this device. The other suggestion would be to check with the company itself. Either way it sounds like this would need a controller to even configure it :confused:

[John4924]

John - Normally I would agree with you but I think that the references in the description specifically mention that this needs to be connected to a controller that supports the multiplexed drives is where the issue is.

It is a great idea to ask the knowledgeable folks on this site - hopefully someone has more experience with this device. The other suggestion would be to check with the company itself. Either way it sounds like this would need a controller to even configure it :confused:

I did read about it a little bit, and I think you can hook it up initially to your PC that has a SATA connection, and set the configuration to RAID 0. Then plug it in to the HR20? :confused:
This is so much fun reading and learning on this forum! I feel like a kid again when I installed my first 8-track player (age identifier) in my first car :D

[Steve]

I've been trying to read through all these posts, but in the interests of saving a bit of time, can anyone tell me if the external ESATA drive is still a replacement for the built-in storage? Or is it now additive to it. Thanks! /steve

[Tom Robertson]

I've been trying to read through all these posts, but in the interests of saving a bit of time, can anyone tell me if the external ESATA drive is still a replacement for the built-in storage? Or is it now additive to it. Thanks! /steve

Still a replacement for the internal drive. Nothing on the internal drive is lost, if you unplug the external drive again.

Cheers,
Tom

[Steve]

Still a replacement for the internal drive. Nothing on the internal drive is lost, if you unplug the external drive again.

Thanks, Tom! I saw a 250 GB ESATA drive on sale for A$69 after rebate. I guess that wouldn't make any sense, tho. Unless you wanted to consciously cut down on your TV time! :)

/steve

[P Smith]

If I will insist on opposite answer, will it convince ppl to read actually ? I see the type of excuse coming up more often last days. :(

My 0x7145 beta asking which disk should filled first. :p

[Steve]

If I will insist on opposite answer, will it convince ppl to read actually ? I see the type of excuse coming up more often last days. :(Too many threads... so little time! :)
My 0x7145 beta asking which disk should filled first. :pGreat news! Thx. /steve

[funhouse69]

If I will insist on opposite answer, will it convince ppl to read actually ? I see the type of excuse coming up more often last days. :(

My 0x7145 beta asking which disk should filled first. :p

So that means that we will eventually be able to use the external drive as "Additional Storage" and not replacement storage? That will be GREAT!!! Too bad they didn't put a removable drive bay in the unit itself. Maybe in a future model :D

I wonder how long it will be before they release this to the general population? I'm not so sure that I want to venture down the beta road at this point unless of course it offers DLB ;)

[P Smith]

Actually it have Eject button, so it will works on DVD/CD/Jazz/Zip/LS-120/etc devices :).

[GollyGee]

Sorry, I private messaged someone on this board about a week ago and they said they had an external array and woke up one day and his playlist was empty.Something like that happened to me twice. The playlist was not empty, but every time I tried to play something, it would not play, and I'd just got the "Would you like to delete this Delete/Save" option.

A RBR fixed everything, with no loss of programming.

Hasn't happened for about 2 weeks; maybe a software update has arrived and solved the problem.

[Tom Robertson]

If I will insist on opposite answer, will it convince ppl to read actually ? I see the type of excuse coming up more often last days. :(

My 0x7145 beta asking which disk should filled first. :p

Actually it have Eject button, so it will works on DVD/CD/Jazz/Zip/LS-120/etc devices :).

Would this beta become a CE, say, on the first day of April, a few days hence? :D :lol:

Cheers,
Tom

[P Smith]

You bet !

[GollyGee]

This is the one I am considering for about the same price...

http://www.cooldrives.com/saiipomu55hd1.html

This one has a much larger power supply, and dual cooling fans.

Has anyone out there tried one of these, and if so, how is it working?

Thanks,
JohnDon't buy that enclosure, it will not work. The HR20 is not port multiplier aware.

In other words, on the HR20, you can only attach one SATA drive to a SATA port. (Don't flame me)

To use multiple drives, the RAID enclosure must use a storage processor, which manages the RAID and makes it appear as a single drive to the HR20.

That vendor does have an enclosure that will work, it uses the Sil 4726 part. http://www.cooldrives.com/harasaiipomu.html. I have been using an enclosure with one of those parts successfully with the HR20.

[funhouse69]

Hey everyone I mentioned previously that I hard ordered an eSATA Case from NewEgg.com that has a built in fan rather than modifying the existing one I had. Well I received it today ahead of schedule along with a Seagate 750GB SATA II Drive. I have to say that this case is really cool and even has the same color Blue Power LED on it. So far is working perfectly with my H20. Of course I had to reset my favorite channels and any series recording settings I had as expected.

As instructed on this forum I powered off the unit by unplugging it, connected the eSATA cable, powered on the external enclosure then the HR20 and I have to say that to me it seems to come up in the "Normal" time but I'm pretty new to this so maybe there is a little difference but if so it is minimal! Is it possible that using a virgin drive might make it go a little faster then one that has stuff on it?

Here is the link for the case - Seriously for under $30 including 3 day shipping you just can't go wrong.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121022

Does anyone know how much record time I should see with a 750GB drive?

[John4924]

Don't buy that enclosure, it will not work. The HR20 is not port multiplier aware.

In other words, on the HR20, you can only attach one SATA drive to a SATA port. (Don't flame me)

To use multiple drives, the RAID enclosure must use a storage processor, which manages the RAID and makes it appear as a single drive to the HR20.

That vendor does have an enclosure that will work, it uses the Sil 4726 part. http://www.cooldrives.com/harasaiipomu.html. I have been using an enclosure with one of those parts successfully with the HR20.

Thanks for the info...I think I will order one of these. This case appears to be really robust, has a large power supply, and dual cooling fans.

Now, any recommendations for the SATA drives? WD, Seagate, ?? Again, looking for reliability & quiet :D

[hdtvfan0001]

Thanks for the info...I think I will order one of these. This case appears to be really robust, has a large power supply, and dual cooling fans.

Now, any recommendations for the SATA drives? WD, Seagate, ?? Again, looking for reliability & quiet :D
My Seagate has run like clockwork and is very quiet (a Seagate trait). You can ususally find the 500GB Seagate on sale once a month or so at Fry's or other electronics stores below $150 - mine was below $130.

[GollyGee]

Now, any recommendations for the SATA drives? WD, Seagate, ?? Again, looking for reliability & quiet :DTo make the drives quiet, you'll need to get a program from the vendor that will let you use your PC to set each drive to "acoustic quiet" mode. Different vendors have different names for this mode, but that's the mode you want.

I don't know if every drive supports a quiet mode (I haven't used every drive in the world), but many do.

[funhouse69]

Hey everyone I thought I would share this. NewEgg.com has the Seagate 500GB Drives on sale for $149 including shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148136

Picking a "Good" drive is really personal preference I've been a big fan of the Seagate SATA Drives. They have the best warranty that I've seen of 5 years compared to others offering 1 to 3 years depending on the company. I've got a ton of these drives in large RAID Arrays and haven't had any problems whatsoever **knock on wood!!!**

[hoss713]

I've held off on sending any updates as I tried various things to resolve my eSATA problems.

I've been up and running now for 1 week without any of of the previous problems I've posted so I think (here's the kiss of death) I've solved the issue (previous success rate only lasted 1 day max).

I had tried different eSATA drives raid/no-raid, 1.5 vs 3.0, all with no success. After recently swapping out my HR20 (manufactured 10/06) with a replacement (manufactured 3/07) I've not had a problem.

My configuration is:

Thecus N2050UD, RAID 0, Lid is ON
2 WD5000AAKS, Configured at 3.0 (no jumpers)

I'll post a follow-up in a month, but I think the problem was the eSATA port on my HR20.

lj

[GollyGee]

I'll post a follow-up in a month, but I think the problem was the eSATA port on my HR20.Certainly possible. The HR20-700 uses an internal "pig-tail" cable to route SATA to the "eSATA" port. The new HR20-100, the black Thomson box, has a very short SATA trace that runs straight to the eSATA port, which should be a better quality, more reliable connection.

If you take the lid off, you can swap the cables on the HR20-700 motherboard and route the "eSATA" to the internal SATA port.

[John4924]

To make the drives quiet, you'll need to get a program from the vendor that will let you use your PC to set each drive to "acoustic quiet" mode. Different vendors have different names for this mode, but that's the mode you want.

I don't know if every drive supports a quiet mode (I haven't used every drive in the world), but many do.

FWIW, I ordered one of the cooldrives RAID enclosures

http://www.cooldrives.com/harasaiipomu.html

Just received an e-mail that this unit is "out of stock" :( and no indication of when they will be available. Has anyone else tried to order one of these? Anyone have any recommendations for other enclosures that are this robust?

Cheers,
John

[schult]

FWIW, I ordered one of the cooldrives RAID enclosures

http://www.cooldrives.com/harasaiipomu.html

Just received an e-mail that this unit is "out of stock" :( and no indication of when they will be available. Has anyone else tried to order one of these? Anyone have any recommendations for other enclosures that are this robust?

Cheers,
John

I bought a JetStor SATA 405U for $1,250.00, very good box so far. Got it from www.acnc.com.

Chris

[oenophile]

I bought a JetStor SATA 405U for $1,250.00, very good box so far. Got it from www.acnc.com.

Chris
Wow.

[schult]

From my discussions and research the cooldrive.com is just a port multiplier and the RAID is done on a software basis by a computer or add on card in the computer. From my understanding this will not work with the HR20 as the HR20, needs to see 1 drive only via the ESATA port.

The two devices that I found that would do it and have more than 2 drives were, the SANS DIGITAL MR5CT2 Mobile RAID or the Jetstore. both about the same price and both gave me the option to have 5 drives in Raid 5. This allowed for max capacity and reliability. If I loose 1 drive I can recover. I opted against RAID 6 which would give more reliability, at the expense of performance and storage space.

I went with the Jetstore because of better cooling and the guys at Advanced Computer & Network Corporation (ACNC) actually knew somthing about storage and had a very good tutorial on RAID on their website. I talked in more detail in my post below.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=805231#post805231

[Steve]

Anyone look into the 750GB Seagate FreeAgent Pro external eSata? Looks nice, but I'm worried there is no fan. The review says the case acts as a heat sink:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,129566-c,harddrives/article.html

/steve

[LDLemu4U]

Anyone look into the 750GB Seagate FreeAgent Pro external eSata? Looks nice, but I'm worried there is no fan. The review says the case acts as a heat sink:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,129566-c,harddrives/article.html

/steve

http://www.realdbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82400&page=2

Been up with this: Mediasonic enclosure with 500g Seagate, no fan and no overheating.

Over one week already.

[GollyGee]

From my discussions and research the cooldrive.com is just a port multiplier and the RAID is done on a software basis by a computer or add on card in the computer. From my understanding this will not work with the HR20 as the HR20, needs to see 1 drive only via the ESATA port.Not quite so. They offer different controller cards inside their products. One of them acts as you say, the other is a RAID controller.

To be clear, the box with the Silicon Image 4726 has a RAID controller, and it makes all of the disks appear to the HR20 as a single disk, I've been using a 4726-based box, and it does indeed work. You first have to attach it to a PC and run a config utility, to set the RAID the way you want (FAST, BIG or SAFE). You can set it up any way, as long as you make your RAID appear as a single drive (volume) to the HR20.

This CoolDrive box (based on Sil 4726) works (http://www.cooldrives.com/harasaiipomu.html). It makes all the drives appear as a single drive.

This CoolDrive box (based on Sil 3726) will not work (http://www.cooldrives.com/saiipomu55hd.html). It makes all the drives appear as a bunch of drives.

Any solution that requires a "port multiplier aware host" will not work -- the HR 20 will only see the first disk. (This could theoretically change with a future software update, but I doubt it will happen).

I hope this is clear, but if there's any confusion, please let me know. I have access to several of these boxes and I can try things out if you're curious.

[schult]

[QUOTE=GollyGee;896555]Not quite so. They offer different controller cards inside their products. One of them acts as you say, the other is a RAID controller.

This CoolDrive box (based on Sil 4726) works (http://www.cooldrives.com/harasaiipomu.html). It makes all the drives appear as a single drive.
QUOTE]


Well I stand corrected..if it works it works, but their website is misleading.

From reading the website information they don't appear to work in this fashion,

from the last line below the picture:
"All You need to complete a Fast External SATA Raid Solution is Five SATA I or SATA II Hard Drives and a Port Multiplier Host Adapter."

Now if if someone would have pointed out that when I was looking before I could have bought 2 of these for the price I paid for the Jetstore product.

Chris

[Schmedley]

I have now recorded for about 3 months with my Thecus and two Samsung 500 gig drives. All quiet, all well (the HR-20 bugs come and go).

BUT Almost all of the good programs I have "saved" are now re-running!!
I still have over 50% of my 1T system available so that means I am just using up to he first platter on the second drive.

Now my problem is trying to find anything on the playlist. Everything jumps around so it is hard to find what I want in a reasonable time since the HR-20 system is pretty slow.

For me 1 T is plenty......My remote is wearing out....

[GollyGee]

If it works it works, but their website is misleading.

From reading the website information they don't appear to work in this fashion,

from the last line below the picture:
"All You need to complete a Fast External SATA Raid Solution is Five SATA I or SATA II Hard Drives and a Port Multiplier Host Adapter."It works.

If you have a Port Multiplier, you can (optionally) configure the raid to make two or more volumes appear. With the DR20, you're limited to RAID configs that create a single volume. That is why they say a port multiplier-aware host is needed if you want to support every possible configuration, but it is not "absolutely" required. There are a LOT of non-port multiplier-aware SATA controllers out there, on PC's and DVR's.

The 3726-based box won't work with the HR 20, because it presents each drive as a drive, and the host has to create and manage the RAID sets.

But the 4726-based box creates and manages the RAID sets, and the HR 20 just sees a single drive.

If any of this is confusing, please ask and I will explain.

[John4924]

It works.

If you have a Port Multiplier, you can (optionally) configure the raid to make two or more volumes appear. With the DR20, you're limited to RAID configs that create a single volume. That is why they say a port multiplier-aware host is needed if you want to support every possible configuration, but it is not "absolutely" required. There are a LOT of non-port multiplier-aware SATA controllers out there, on PC's and DVR's.

The 3726-based box won't work with the HR 20, because it presents each drive as a drive, and the host has to create and manage the RAID sets.

But the 4726-based box creates and manages the RAID sets, and the HR 20 just sees a single drive.

If any of this is confusing, please ask and I will explain.

As I said on a previous post, I ordered one of these 4726 based boxes, and I received an e-mail yesterday saying they were "out of stock". You say you own one or more of these. Do you believe they will make these again? Do you have any idea what may be going on?

Any inside info would be most appreciated. :)

Cheers,
John

[GollyGee]

For me 1 T is plenty......My remote is wearing out....I would be very interested to know -- what percent of your recordings are HiDef, and of the HiDef, what percent come from local channels?

I'm curious because this has a big impact on recording capacity.

[John4924]

I would be very interested to know -- what percent of your recordings are HiDef, and of the HiDef, what percent come from local channels?

I'm curious because this has a big impact on recording capacity.

That is exactly what I was thinking! As for myself, I am really only interested in recording HD, because I don't even like watching anything in "low def" anymore. I am TOTALLY spoiled! :sunsmile:

That is why I have ordered the eSata RAID box (for mucho storage). This is so much fun playing with these new toys!

Cheers,
John

[Schmedley]

I would be very interested to know -- what percent of your recordings are HiDef, and of the HiDef, what percent come from local channels?

I'm curious because this has a big impact on recording capacity.

With 55% space left available, 51 hours of HD and 55 hours of standard.

Less than 10% of HD or standard is from local channels and it is erased almost as soon as recorded.

We try to watch evening programs with a 30 minute delay so they rarely stay on the system. I do have two more HiDef receivers, one records tape programs and one other records DVD in standard (pretty good) Svideo.

I have a 32 inch Samsung CRT . The HR-20 also connects to a Benq projector and an 82 inch wide screen.

[funhouse69]

I have a Seagate 750 Drive connected to my HR20 as listed previously in this thread. I haven't recorded a ton of stuff as of yet but I do have enough to give us an idea.

1-1/2 Hours of Local HD (MPEG4)
11 Hours of National HD (MPEG2)

This said I still show 90% Free.

I've been using this for a little over a week now and no problems. The case has a HDD Fan built in to it and sits about 90 degrees even while recording 2 shows while watching a 3rd. I don't really record any SD Content as I have 2 SD TiVO's for that :D

[GollyGee]

With 55% space left available, 51 hours of HD and 55 hours of standard.

Less than 10% of HD or standard is from local channels and it is erased almost as soon as recorded. Thanks. Maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but... I may be wrong, but I was thinking that the local channels are higher bitrate MPEG-2, while the "cable" channels, like HBO and Showtime, are MPEG-4 (lower bitrate). I know that OTA channels are MPEG-2.

So as more HD channels become available on DirecTV, the storage needs won't increase as rapidly, because they use more efficient compression than the locals.

I could be wrong -- does anybody know about this? I'm trying to figure out how many GB/hour are used for SD and HD, and whether some HD channels use a lot more GB/hour. (That is sort of on topic...)

Thanks!

[focker]

It would depend if your getting your locals off the dish or a OTA antenna ;)

[coondogg97]

Would something like this work?


Drive Interface Support STAT

Enclosure Interface E-SATA with Sil3132 Chip set

Chipset Silicon Image Sil4726

RAID Level Modes
Raid 0, Raid 1, Raid 10, Raid 5 (Raid Only Support on Window)

OS Support Windows XP, 2000, 2003, and Mac OS 10.3/10.4, and Linux RedHat,
Fedora, SuSE 9.0 or later