More Locals for DISH on the Way

[Steve Mehs]

When EchoStar launches its newest satellite next week, the company could add as many as a half-dozen additional cities to the DISH Network local TV slate. EchoStar confirmed that Las Vegas could be among the cities possibly added to the list of DMAs receiving local TV channels from the satellite TV service. The Las Vegas local TV package could become available from DISH Network by October or November. Also, Waco, Texas, is expected to be added to DISH Network's local TV slate, possibly by the end of August. EchoStar VIII, set for liftoff next week, will allow DISH Network to add about a half dozen more local TV markets, thanks to spot-beam technology, spokesman Marc Lumpkin said. Without the company's pending merger with DirecTV, EchoStar will be limited by capacity restraints from offering local TV to about 50 markets. With the merger, the combined company promises it will reach all 210 TV markets.
Local TV packages for DISH Network customers sell for $5.99 a month, or a dollar cheaper depending on if there are channels missing from any package.

From SkyReport (http://www.skyreport.com) (Used with Permission)

[lee635]

Seems that Dish is leapfrogging past D* in the local adds. We'll see what E* brings.

[Adam Richey]

BUT Dish Network isn't adding markets that would benefit the biggest amount of customers. I would hope they will finally launch Baltimore soon.

[Jacob S]

Why is Dish not adding the locals that would benefit the most customers?

[mattb]

I wish they would add Columbus Ohio Locals... =) Give me more of a reason to put my dish back up and deal with my apartment on actually getting it up (they have a terrible policy on dishes (something about 250,000 in libality insurance)

[Jacob S]

I am surprised that Columbus, Ohio is not up now, I thought that city was already up.

[pbrown]

I can with a fair amount of certainty announce that Spokane, WA, will be on E*8. I work for a local TV station and we are in the process of dotting the I's and crossing the T's on a retransmission consent agreement with Dish right now. I know that won't be too popular with bigger markets, but it's gonna rock for us to be on Dish. Our market has a large rural viewership, so it should help local viewers in our area.

[jrjcd]

E* isn't adding the more prominant markets because it is easier to deal with smaller markets who are itching for more exposure in getting a good deal contract wise...more than likely...

[Jacob S]

That may be good for my DMA then seeing that they are not as big of a market but DMA #61

How can you find out if your local stations were talked to by Dish or DirecTv on being added? Maybe Dish plans on adding locals that DirecTv is not going to add for a while, or maybe they are taking turns like Dish will add one DMA, DirecTv will add another DMA, and then when they go to swap out the receivers, some will purchase the other brand to get the locals saving them money on the merger costs of swapping out the equipment, being all new equipment is compatible now.

[Mike123abc]

E8 has 4 transponders in 2 spots pointed towards the North East. This should be enough to pick up Baltimore, Hartford, Buffalo and Albany.

In FCC merger filings, E* pretty much has said that they would service the top 80 or so DMAs if the merger does not go through. This is with the current E7 & E8. They also show D* doing somewhere between 75 and 100. The limit on markets is really driven by the cost of servicing the market vs return on subscibers. The cost of a location to recieve all the stations and the transmission costs back to the DBS company plus what they give stations for each subscriber is the main limiting factor. In the FCC filings they have the numbers covered up as confidential, but they have a general formula that is composed of the number of subscribers in a DMA what the percentage that would do LIL. This gives them the expected revenue stream for a market with LIL. They then budget this money over the cost of land/building/equipment/transmission to DBSco/uplink equipment/transponder cost/local station cut.

Currently there are 5 unused spot freqencies on E7 that they can add for locals (N. CA, S. CA, E. TX, AK, Mexico City). E8 will have 25 over 15 Spots. They are using about 14 transponders on e8 that will go to spots at this time. That will leave 11 beams still available for expansion on E8 spots plus the 5 still unused on E7. This means they could easily pick up the rest of the top 60 markets and probably throw a few odd ball DMAs in that they happen to have spot capacity lying around like Waco, TX on the Dallas-Austin-SanAntonio spot. This would have them close to 80 markets on their own.

[dishrich]

Originally posted by lee635
Seems that Dish is leapfrogging past D* in the local adds. We'll see what E* brings.

How do you figure? D* currently has 49 markets, with New Orleans getting ready to be the 50th. E* currently only has 42, so even with 1/2 dozen more, they are NOT getting ahead of D*.



Jacob S & mattb - I assume you know that D* does have Columbus, OH up...

[johnsmith22]

When E*VII and E*VIII are both carrying locals on their spot beams there will be no spare satellite capable of taking up the slack if either one of them fails. I am wondering if their is a contingency plan, loosing six or eight cities would not be a very good way of making friends with and influencing your customers.

[pbrown]

Originally posted by Jacob S

How can you find out if your local stations were talked to by Dish or DirecTv on being added?

Probably one of the best things you can do is call your Favorite TV station and ask to speak with their Chief Engineer. Most of them are pretty good guys, and if your market is up for LIL, you could probably get one of them to tell you. They would certainly be among the most informed people in your town on the subject.

[BrettR]

Some of the larger station groups like PAX keep very few people at the station. They make decisions on all their O&O out in other city or state. (Believe for PAX its Florida). Clear Channel does this with radio. They voice track so a local DJ may appear to be home town in Philly but they are out somewhere else.

Usually though with NBC, ABC, CBS FOX affiliates and O&Os they have full staffs (even news divisions) and engineers. They also own radio outlets, like here in Philly its so. I know lot of decisions for 3 6 10 and 29 though are made by network execs 90 miles up in NYC, however there is indeed localism on these stations. PAX only NBC 10 rebroadcast of news.

Before SHVIA, E* didnt have retransmission agreements with local stations (although they had with FOX only). Technically they shouldnt have been doing LIL before SHVIA. They had 13 cities up on 61.5/148 mostly except NY LA on 119. Philly wasnt one of them. WTXF 29 (FOX) was on Primestar, and WTXF 29(FOX) actually wanted E* to carry them. However, Echostar didnt inform them they were even going to be carried or not. Big problem was lack of Comcast SportsNet. Philly was eventually carried on 110 after DirecTV launched it.

I called local stations for if they are going mustcarry or not. All of them did, and WTVE and WBPH will be coming on DirecTV they hope sometime. They are in "process" they say but really I doubt they are anywhere close, but I do expect them up.

WMGM 40 requested mustcarry and DirecTV has to leave a channel reservation for this POS station. Most the stations are POS (I'd say about half), and DirecTV was forced to carry many channels by mustcarry sacrificing the launch of future markets immediately. So a Lancaster subscriber wont get one channel of local content because Philly mustcarry took up majority of TP 4 and TP 12, until DirecTV pays millions to launch another spotbeam satellite. And that satellite will be on 110 or 119 requiring the subscriber use an upgraded dish to get network programming.

[Marcus S]

I don't think that E* is that stupid.. Looking at the list most of these cities are surrounded by many many smaller cities that do not have their own local channels. C Springs is a good example as those networks include cities to Pueblo, Trinidad, SE Colorado, and Canyon City, but not reflected in the DMA totals. Waco and I am sure other proposed cities are similar.

This is a good thing for DBS, as most of these cities are still served by old analog cable systems with limited channel offerings. The returns to DBS in general could be very good at least up to the top 150 DMA. They could have been better if the Supreme Court would have heard "distant nets" argument. I was expecting to see at least 18 DMA's stay on conus.

[Jacob S]

If they would not have must carry then we would have a probably half more LIL cities up by now. Mine would have probably done been up or getting ready to go up.

[jrjcd]

am i the only one who looks at E*VII and E*VIII sees the word "evil" there????lol..(must be that ole charlie hater in me...hehehe)

actually, if you record the 101 channel and then play it backwards, you can hear jim defranco saying "i wish brian olsen was dead...i wish brian olsen was dead..."

sorry-just felt like being silly...

[Jacob S]

I remember someone else saying that when they played the chat backwards that it sounded like they were saying something, or when they played that chat back a certain way that there was some secret message. This has been a good while back since I heard this on a message board.

[TNGTony]

Waco is now being uplinked on transponder 7 spot 10 (Texas) according to John H and JD.

See www.dishchannelchart.com 8985-8995

See ya
Tony

[Jacob S]

Thats DMA #94, why so far down the list for bringing this city up?

[mnassour]

Because they had the space on that spotbeam and nothing else to put there.

[Geronimo]

Check old threads Jacob here and in the other forum. Lots of discussion about Waco and Vermont. I know you will be shocled to hear this theory but the cynical among us have noticed that certain influentail politicains legally reside within these DMAs.

[lee635]

Originally posted by pbrown
I can with a fair amount of certainty announce that Spokane, WA, will be on E*8. ...I know that won't be too popular with bigger markets, but it's gonna rock for us to be on Dish. Our market has a large rural viewership, so it should help local viewers in our area.

I thought this sort of thing would happen. There are far fewer cities in the pacific northwest than say the northeast. And E* is looking at a spotbeam on the northwest and trying to figure out how to fill up that spot. Plus the smaller market owners aren't as ornery about negotiating contracts.

We'll going to see more smaller western market locals added.

[Mike123abc]

I am surprised they have not aimed spots at some of the other western states. Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Dakotas, etc. They are far away from the other spots they have and essentially they could use the same frequencies over again without having to worry about the spots being too close to other spots and causing interference (on e8, e7 has a spot on UT).

I guess that there are so few subscribers in these areas that it would not pay enough to cover the costs of retransmission.

Looking at E8 map Idaho could have T9, MT-Dakotas 1,3,5,9 without being close to any other spots. E7 could have put T5&7 up there and still not be close.

Or maybe it was the scream factor that other markets would have if LIL was in some 150-210 markets, but not in their market.

[Jacob S]

So it depends on if there is a spot already over that area or not. So if this is the truth then how do we find out when or if there is an actual spot beam over your own area even if your locals are not even up? If they put up spotbeams close to your area then does that make your own city more likely to be added than others even if other DMA's are a lower number? I know the stations in my area have even put on their websites and said on their tv stations that they are eager to be launched on satellite. I am sure there would be no problem whatsoever putting them up. I bet some markets would not even charge a thing or very little to have the locals put up for them. If anything the locals should pay them in some ways in smaller markets because they would be reaching more customers and get more ad spots and make more money that way. Thats why I think that the smaller markets should not charge much if anything because they should be lucky to even get their local channels at all. All someone would have to do is get a cheap satellite system and pay $6 for the locals and $5 access fee to just get the locals alone, and then some would get the basic package from dish since they already got the satellite up anyways, so it helps both dish and the locals.

[Geronimo]

Lots of stuff here Jacob.


First of all a simple search led me to this DTV spot beam map; http://www.scottandmichelle.net/scott/dtvfaq.html

For some reason I can't locate one for DISH but I am sure you can if you try.


Does the fact that a spot CAN carry make you more likely to be covered? well yes but it is no guarantee.

You are right that in small markets the stations might not charge. However the issue there might be their getting their signal to the provided in the first place. Also sometimes the stations in such markets are owned by large station groups and the rights may already be sold or may be otherwise covered in the deal with that group.

As for your idea of the access fee and the locals as an alternative to cable---it might work! But sometimes lifeline cable has more than just locals. It is really up to the consumer.

[Mike123abc]

Well you can look at the FCC filings to see where the spot beams are going and where they are now. Bryan over at stratuswave has built a summary page of the filings:

http://www.stratuswave.com/~bryan27/dbsbeam.html

You can also look at http://www.lyngsat.com to see what is on which transponders at this time. Using this info you can see that E7 has free space in spots (they are not used at this time) for N. CA, S.CA, AK, and Mexico City.

E8 is not up of course, but you can see where the spots are and match the transponders that are national to the spots. For example 110 has T6 and 148 has T25 carrying New Mexico Locals, E8 has a spot on NM with 2 frequencies T7 & T9. One would figure they would move all the LIL for NM to this spot. This is only 11 stations, but 2 transponders is about 20-24 stations worth, so they could add another market if it is under this spot. El Paso is probably a good fit since it is right at the bottom of the spot. El Paso is market #96.

[afh]

Jacob,

I think Charlie said it best on the last Charlie Chat. Someone called in and asked him when the Jacksonville locals would be up and he told that person sometime in October after E*8 is up and tested. He also made that comment that Jacksonville is one of the lucky cities because a spot beam will be on the metro area. He said that if there isn't a spot beam on your city, then you will most likely have to wait until the merger to get your locals if you do not already have them. So you may want to check to see if there are going to be any spot beams over your metro area.

[Jacob S]

How do I check to see if there are going to be any spot beams over my metro area?

[Mike123abc]

Well, Jacob S, if you are in West Virginia like your info says, you are out of luck. There is just one spot covering WV, and it only has one transponder in it. This spot points at Cincinnati. So, probably just the Cincinnati locals will go on it. If there were going to put an additional market in there it would probabably be Louisville, KY since that is the next largest market under the spot.

[stugil]

Hello Scott,

What happened to your info on Hartford, CT? I thought they were runing fiber through MCI ?

[Scott Greczkowski]

They did, it is feeding DirecTV. :)

I don't think Dish is interested in adding cities which DirecTV is already carrying. Its sad because everything is setup at MCI and Connecticut get hit (quite nicely too I might add) by two spot beams. There should really be no reason why Hartford is not up yet.

[Jacob S]

I figure that Louisville, Ky will go up before any locals here, and I doubt that the spot beam covers all the areas in WV that would receive the locals here, or be on the edge of it.

If it is true that Dish will not carry what DirecTv will carry then maybe Dish will decide to carry it, but will only carry those that are convenient for them to carry.

Locals are VERY hard to pick up here because of the mountains, hills, and trees.

[James_F]

Originally posted by Jacob S
If it is true that Dish will not carry what DirecTv will carry then maybe Dish will decide to carry it, but will only carry those that are convenient for them to carry

Huh??? :confused:

[Jacob S]

Thats what I was afraid of, we are usually last to get anything, lol. We are DMA 61. How many markets is Echo VIII going to handle?

What I meant by the earlier post was this: That Dish will not carry the locals that DirecTv has in the smaller markets, but carry the ones that DirecTv does not have up, so one would carry certain smaller markets while the other would carry the other smaller markets, kind of like taking turns so to speak. Also I meant that some markets would be easier to carry than others so those would go up even though they are not be as high up on the DMA # list to go up according to the population that they serve.

[James_F]

I don't think they can operate that way. They have to act like the are two separate companies until the merger...

[Jacob S]

How many channels can they put on a spotbeam transponder overall? There are not that many channels here (one of the following that I know of: NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS, WB, PBS) in which should not take much space but seeing that Cincinnatti and Louisville will be added before me then it will not happen unless there is a lot of space provided by spotbeams. I suppose it dont matter anyways to wonder because it will not do any good, but just to wait to see what happens. I know that some bigger markets do have more stations than that in which would have to be put up.

Are they adding more spotbeams such as when they put up E*VIII ? Hopefully they will put it up then. Are they adding a lot of new spotbeams for the reason for the new satellite or just reuse some of the existing spotbeams?

I dont understand completely how spotbeams work but learning more and more all of the time.

[Mike123abc]

Well imagine a large dish in space that points towards the United States. This is how most satellite antennas used to be. They were shaped so that the entire country would be in focus.

Each satellite in orbit has a certain set of frequencies that it can broadcast on. Sort of like channels (called each channel has a transponder which is what transmits it).

Spot beams are specially shaped antennas that focus a signal on just a portion of the United States. With the frequencies they are using, the smallest they can focus a beam is a circle around 500 miles in diameter. You will notice on the maps that they look like ovals, but that is due to the curvature of the earth.

Now the area that is focused on gets a strong signal. And as you move away from that area the signal drops off very quickly. Essentially you have to leave a buffer (500 miles) all the way around the spot to have the signal fall off enough not to interfere with the same channel in a different spot beam.

Now what they did with Echostar 7 is take 5 transponder channels and dedicate them for use in spot beams. They turned off these channels in the national antenna, and used them over a series of spot beams.

E7 has 15 spot beam antennas (see http://www.stratuswave.com/~bryan27/dbsbeam.html for a map of them). A spot beam antenna can broadcast any of the 5 transponder channels that they turned off in the national antenna. The maps also show which transponder channels are in use in each spot. You will notice that some spots are right next to each other and they will use different channels. For example one might use T1 and T3, another T5 and T7, and the third adjacent one just uses T9.

The have flexability, they could put all the spot transponder frequencies in just one spot, but then they would have to leave a 500 mile distance around the spot to allow for reuse.


The next logical question that comes up is why not put more spots up and use more transponder frequencies. The spot beams are constrained by the following factors:

1. One limit is the power that the satellite can generate from its solar panels. Each transponder uses power, E7 instead of having 32 national transponders, has 27 national and 25 spot beam transponers. So, it has to power 20 more transponers than a non spot beam satellite.

2. The size of the satellite. Each spot beam dish is solid metal (it cannot be a folding out one because of the frequencies involved). So, it has the national one and 15 more 3 foot dishes.

3. Processing power of the satellite (more size and power used here too). The satellite has to be able to take 52 uplinks (27 national and 25 spot) and route them to the right dish, convert them to the right frequency and amplify them.

All these things add lots of costs. The giant satellite that they want to put up to do LIL to all remaining markets has 38 spot dishes (no national dish) and 8 frequencies used in them. The estimated cost of the satellite is 300 million dollars.

[Jacob S]

So, with this giant satellite is able to do all the remaining markets, I dont see why they dont just launch that satellite and solve the problem, seeing that a merger is NOT needed, and this would be a LOT cheaper than a merger. How many customers would this satellite service?

One could figure how many customers divide that by the total cost and figure out how much it would cost average per customer. Figuring the total customers that they do have now at around 8 million, this would be about $40 a customer (around $3 a month per customer for a year, $1 a month per customer for three years, just for the cost of the satellite) so this cost would not really be all that great.

They would make this money back from part of the $6 they would collect each month. If they would get all the locals up for everyone in all 210 markets then they would probably change the packages and prices to where everyone would have to take the local channels at an additional cost and this would guarantee Dish the money to make up for the money they paid out and they would eventually even make a profit if they done things right.

If they would make certain markets that are smaller purchase a different type of receiver for the other type of signal that is coming in to receive their locals, then they could share a satellite for all the locals WITHOUT a merger since all new receivers made have both standards. They could subsidize some money into the receiver swap for some of those customers.

I think there is a good way of going about this with some figuring out to do with the best solution for all. I think its just a matter of time, not IF but WHEN. The sooner the better.

[Mike123abc]

Well the new satellite will not do it alone. They are counting also using the DirectTV spot satellite with the Echostar 2 satellites. So, they would really have to build 2 satellites if they wanted to do it alone. But, the satellite is not the only expense. They have to also pay the costs of recieving all the TV stations, and sending them to a central location to beam them up to the satellite.

The DirectTV satellite uses 7 transponder channels, the new one will use 8 transponder channels. This is about 15 channels. Dish has 50 channels on the two main satellite locations, and is already using 10 for spots. So, half their capacity would be used for it. That would not leave them enough capacity for all the other national channels. They do LIL with the combined companies because then they would have 96 transponder channels to work with and the 25 transponders for local is not as big a deal.

Another way Dish could do it alone is to require all the rest of the markets to get a second dish and point it at 148 or 61.5 to recieve their locals. Dish has 11 transponders at 61.5 and 24 at 148. But, people hate to have 2 dishes. (the main satellites are at 110 and 119, too far away from the other 2 to use a single antenna).

[Jacob S]

Well that might be the only possible way at this time, so its better to have a second dish than no locals at all, and a second dish does not take up anymore room than an antenna, if anything, less room.

FCC regulations states they cannot put the locals on another orbital slot, am I right? Or does it state that all the locals have to be on the same satellite therefore it would be allowed? I figured that FCC would allow those to go up at the side slots instead of them not going up at all.

[Mike123abc]

The FCC goal is no discrimination. The main objection to the current way that Dish does locals is that you have to install a second dish to get some of the locals. Hence the free second dish promotion by Dish to try to hold off the FCC until E8 launches. The FCC has said that they do not mind requiring a second dish for local channels as long as all the local channels are on the second dish.

Dish did not want to be forced to carry every channel. When they were forced to, they then tried to stick them on a side satellite, and you had to buy a second dish to get them. This plan did not work either. This is why they are being forced to tell you over and over to get a free dish with free installation. Even going as f ar as to modify the programming guide to tell you to order a second dish.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Jacob S
How do I check to see if there are going to be any spot beams over my metro area?


Go to the link provided above Jacob. It will show you.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Jacob S
How do I check to see if there are going to be any spot beams over my metro area?

Go to the link in Mike123abc's post.

[pbrown]

How close to accurate can we assume that map is? If it is absolutely accurate, then I'd have concerns about my earlier statement about Spokane, WA LIL, even though we are doing the paperwork with E*. Looking at that map for E*8, Spokane is probably 75-100 miles outside the radius of the NW spotbeam. Anyone care to comment? For those who don't know, we are on the state line with Idaho, about the middle North and South.

[TNGTony]

Originally posted by Jacob S
I figure that Louisville, Ky will go up before any locals here, and I doubt that the spot beam covers all the areas in WV that would receive the locals here, or be on the edge of it.

Actually, from the info I've been getting, Huntington/Charleston, WV is very high on the list of possible adds. I'd already heard a rumor (from a tech at one of the stations) that they are going to be going on E* "soon". I cannot rely solely on him because of other inconsistencies with his story. But I've gotten from more than one source that Ch/H WV is a likely add EVEN if the merger falls through.

Now Beckly? Parkersberg? Princeton? I think these places are SOL. :)

See ya
Tony

[AFH]

pbrown,

If you look at the spot beam map you will also see other areas that currently have locals that are not circled on the map. The reason this most likely is is that Spokane and the others that are not located in a spot beam on that map, but currently offer LIL will be placed on national beams instead of spots. It may have something to do with relieving stress on transponders in areas of the country that are highly populated, because those areas would have more channels and therefore, more capacity needs. E* clears a little more space on the national sats that are used to send programming to Dish customers all across the nation while including lil from areas of the country that would not monopolize the capacity on the national sats.

[johnsmith22]

I wonder what plans dish has for South Florida, they have activated the spot beam on 119 transponder 1 with just one West Palm Beach channel and have put a couple of the Miami channels on 61.5 while leaving the four main Miami network channels on the Conus beam of 110. Could this mean they have something planned for the transponder 1 spotbeam like adding the west coast Naples/Fort Meyers area locals.

[Mike123abc]

The spot beam map shows negative 5 db contours. The signal still is present outside the contour. That is why they have to space the reuse of the transponder frequecies over 500 miles apart. You probably can get good reception 250 miles out of the circle. by 500 miles you probably get 0 reception.

Essentially if the center of the spot has a 50db signal, the edge of the circle has a 45db signal. A thousand miles away from the center has 0 effective signal. Now this is with a small dish, if you were to use a huge dish you probably could get a wider circle.

You can play with it now. For example there is a spot on Kansas City on E7. Where I live is outside the 5db circle, but I still get about 100 on the signal meter (probably 50 miles outside the circle).

If you see you are near a spot on E7, go to menu->system setup->installation->aim dish (or whatever is close for your reciever), select 119 for the satellite, then go to the transponder number and change the number to one of the spot beams 1,3,5,7,9 and see what signal you have. If you are under a spot you will see great signal, but see what nearby spot signals are. I cannot pick up any signal from a spot 300 miles or so away, but the one 50 miles away gives 100.

[Jacob S]

I just looked at the spotbeam map that Echostar 8 is going to have and it has one right over my are covering the whole state (WV) as well as the greater part of Kentucky and pretty well all of Ohio. It does look like mine will be added, and I do remember them saying that they did want to be added, so I think it would be no problem at all getting agreements with these stations, especially considering the hills, trees, and terrain making it so difficult for people even 25-30 miles away of getting a signal.

I figure that they would add Louisville with Charleston/ Huntington and maybe another city or two as well. I do not find anyu spotbeams coverng my whole area at this time on directv or dish before the launch of echostar 8. I dont even find any of the new DirecTv satellites that are going to have the beam over my location in any of their future planned satellites according to that webpage I looked at, and wonder if DirecTv subs will be getting those locals too. This would be very VERY good for me as a retailer if only Dish got them, because people would be switching from DirecTv to Dish in huge swarms. I get some that switch over now without them.

I figure the first that gets the locals in a market are the ones that are going to get the majority of the sales if not all sales with some switchovers.

[pbrown]

Just got word that our launch date for Spokane, WA is supposed to be Oct. 3rd. For those of you who have gotten locals lately, how soon before the date will E* announce it publicly? Will we have the opportunity to order it before the launch date, so we get it on the first day? I'm very excited to be able to kiss ATT Cable goodbye for good!!!!

[Jacob S]

I dont think they announce it much before launch date anymore due to the fact that some channels were promised in the past and were not put up and a lot of customers were angry about promises not kept so they are just going to wait to make sure they are actually up or all agreements met before doing so.

[stugil]

Hey Scott,
What happened to Hartford. I thought you heard they were tyeing to the Fiber by MCI? Any Word yet from your source?

Thanks

[Darkman]

in first couple of minutes of Retailer Chat was mentioned that
now approx 44 Local Cities..Waco was just added...
and they said that if they ll start adding some more - it will happen in about 6 to 8 weeks, ( after new satellite had been launched, etc)
Charlie said - the Maximum before the merger would be around 50 local Cities..

[Jacob S]

And if no merger they would add no more local stations? Will this new satellite only be capable of 6 cities without being able to add anymore to the other satellites? That is not very many cities for one satellite dedicated for spot beams if my understanding is right.

Now I can see if the merger would go through then it would not be long from now in which would be a few months, but even if it would go through, would they wait until they get everyone swapped out before adding all the rest? What happened with adding so many cities each year like so many by 2003, 2004, 2005, etc.

[Mike123abc]

In their own filings with the FCC they stated that they would probably each end up serving the top 75-100 markets if they did not merge. Echostar pretty much said 80 markets with e7 and e8 and Direct said 75 to 100 (with their next satellite), but probably closer to 75 (they had the capacity for 100, but profitable for only around 75).

It takes a certain number of subscribers to make a DMA profitable for LIL. After the top 80 or so markets, they are too small to cover the cost of uplink and satellite costs for the $6 they charge. Echostar has the capacity to do LIL for all DMAs if they wanted (they have 35 transponders on the wing satellites), they could put a spot beam up on 148 and 61 if needed to do it, it just would not pay for itself.

[bryan27]

Mike, your absolutely right. The -5dB contour shows where the signal would be 45dB. A useable stable signal can be as low 42dB on an 18" dish. Any lower dB level your subject to atmospheric signal fluctuations.

Jacob, that beam on E8 covering WV might not be used for Charleston/Huntington. This spot has 1 TP and is intended to serve Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Cleveland. Problem is there isn't enough space for all three cities. It could be used in a variety of ways. One of the 3 cities could be placed on the beam or ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX for the 3 cities stay on a CONUS TP and the spot used for: WCWB(WB), WNPA(UPN), WQED(PBS), Ch.16(Pitt begins in Dec.), WVIZ(PBS), WQHS(UNI), WUAB(UPN), WBNX(WB), WCVN(PBS), WCET(PBS), WSTR(WB). Then there are the 8 stations that may get must carry next time that are going to need space.

Charleston/Huntington has a lot of stations that need carried:

WSAZ(NBC) Definately Carried
WCHS(ABC) Definately Carried
WVAH(FOX) Definately Carried
WOWK(CBS) Definately Carried
WKAS(PBS) might not need to be uplinked "KET"
WLPX(PAX) Carriage Doubtful
WHCP(WB/UPN) Definately Carried
WPBY(PBS) Definately Carried
WTSF(REL) Definately Carried
WOUB(PBS) More than likely would be carried
WPBO(PBS) More than likely would be carried

So at least 7 stations, but more like 9, with a maximum of 11.

What we will most likely see added are cities like Waco TX that have very few stations and can be squeezed on a spot.