View Full Version : Could We Get a Directv Official Response?
Tom Robertson
11-14-06, 11:04 PM
Earl, Directv,
First off, Earl, you are extremely helpful and I'm grateful for your participation!
Would it be possible for Directv to have a limited use account for posting purposes (ie one where we can't bombard them with PMs)? (I presume this is trivial.)
Directv, could you occasionally give an official status on the well-known (and commented upon) defects? Rather than leaking nebulous info: "they are looking at that", "they know about it, but can't reproduce it", etc.
What I would love to see would be a short status about each major issue:
Nickname
Description
Status: (rumored, reproduced, identified, dispatched?, testing, etc.)
Very course, high level estimated fix timeframe
I am not asking Directv to commit to fix dates, I know how very hard that can be. I am also not asking Directv to identify bugs that they know about but don't seem to be showing up in the wild...yet. And lastly, I don't necessarily need to be given a status about little tiny defects like weird colors or typos. Just the major issues we're having.
Just knowing that Directv has enumerated each of the known defects in a status report is very comforting. I know they are reading these forums, but a centralized and formalized list of the defects goes a long way to dispel wild speculations and should cut down on the "I've looked at 10,000 posts and can't find my particular version of this bug" posts.
Directv, the posters here are your best friends--they adopt your equipment very early, they are quite literate technically, and spend $$. We want to help for the most part, and don't want to waste each others cycles. So please give serious thought to a more official, formal means to give us updates. In this way, you can better control the speculation and information flow.
Thank you for listening.
Cheers,
Tom
One of the most useful and practical ideas I've seen on these forums!
Great idea Tom...
D* has nothing to lose, and it would really cut down on alot of repeat posts.
I think this is a great idea, but I doubt it'll happen. Just acknowledging the bugs publicly and on record will put more heat on them. As long as they can hide behind the fact that many people do not report these sorts of things, or aren't aware of web forums like this, it buys them time to fix things on their terms.
I'm all for it, though. I hope they consider it, but somehow I doubt we'll see it happen. :(
What color is the sky in your world? Not a chance ever.
We are VERY fortunate to have Earl and perhaps one other insider posting here, carrying our water and bringing back a few cups. I don't think we are going to get any "Official" publications...
As long as we continue to get good info here and know that our info is getting to them via these forums, we have it pretty well covered.
It may be a good idea from our point of view, but I doubt it is from theirs.
jaywdetroit
11-15-06, 06:02 AM
i could go for that.
sigma1914
11-15-06, 06:15 AM
Here's what their "official responses" would say:
~Reset your unit.
~Check all connections.
~Swap your inputs.
~It's a known issue, we're working on it.
~Reset one more time.
~Order a replacement...or have a tech out.
Here's what the messages sent to DIRECTV would be:
~HEROS didn't record last night, this box is a POS !!!
~It locked up again !!, this box is a POS !!!
~I hate the remote, this box is a POS !!!
~When is OTA going to be enabled ?, this box is a POS !!!
Considering all the mis-posts in the official thread each time a new version is repleased, I'd highly recommend D* not join the forum. If people can't even follow Earl's bold/specific posting rules, D* threads would be a nightmare.
I think it's more reasonable to ask for D* to post press releases on specific issues and that's about it. Even then, they'd likely get flamed for not posting enough.
It's a complete no win situation and the best position is not to post (officially) at all. This way D* doesn't get misquoted/etc.
belogical
11-15-06, 12:50 PM
Earl does a perfect job. Quick, timely response, with a real world perspective. That's more than official to me.
btmoore
11-15-06, 02:05 PM
It has been a few years since I have been over there, but I thought TiVo did a nice job by providing a few people to support the TiVo Community Forum (which is part of the AVS Forum family). I think it did a lot to develop goodwill with customers. IMO D* could learn a lot from that experience.
Stuart Sweet
11-15-06, 02:09 PM
I've suggested similar things several times (most recently yesterday) and the answers trickle back from unofficial sources: It's too risky for them, people here are too fickle, etc. I think that it's true, we'd never be satisfied with whatever the response would be. Doesn't mean they couldn't try.
Earl Bonovich
11-15-06, 02:26 PM
It has been a few years since I have been over there, but I thought TiVo did a nice job by providing a few people to support the TiVo Community Forum (which is part of the AVS Forum family). I think it did a lot to develop goodwill with customers. IMO D* could learn a lot from that experience.
But, over the years...they have taken less and less of a public role there.
C6Silver
11-15-06, 02:33 PM
Lest you forget what a tiny tiny fraction of the buying population we are. That automatically would make this a very low priority even if it actually did reach someone's radar.
btmoore
11-15-06, 02:33 PM
But, over the years...they have taken less and less of a public role there.
That is too bad. I thought is was a fantastic way to build goodwill and credibility. It really demonstrated a respect for the customer, it showed that they understood that it was their customers that would make or break them.
But, over the years...they have taken less and less of a public role there.
That's what I've seen in many other examples too. In the examples I've seen, it typically feed the flames rather than foster good will.
But, over the years...they have taken less and less of a public role there.
That could be mostly due to the relative stability of the Tivo software, though. Although I do remember quite a bit of traffic about the Tivo2Go stuff, and the newer receivers being "slow" or "laggy" due to a slower microprocessor in the new ones.
flipper2006
11-15-06, 04:15 PM
But, over the years...they have taken less and less of a public role there.
I think Earl's answer and responses are more then official. Just one point to make. Everyone get's thier HR20 and tries the eSATA and it doesnt work. How would you know to try it again (that the feature is enabled now). There is no official message from D* on this. I'm so happy to found this forum and have some of you guys that have helped many of people on here. We are getting "inside" information which is more valuable then 'official' info.
cbearnm
11-15-06, 04:55 PM
While it is a good idea, putting it into practice is impractical.
Some other forums have had helpful folks pop up (in both official and informal forms) and they tend to get tired of being chewed up. It all starts with good intentions, but heaven forbid, that person say something speculative that doesn't come to be and the flaming starts up.
I am impressed by Earl's thick skin and patience.
I think I prefer D*'s policy of announcing things (mostly) after they are released. They catch enough crap for things that we fantasize on this and other boards, to the point that people think the info comes from D*.
Not withstanding, the HR20 issues have been numerous, but their response has been acceptable, for the most part.
But I can be safe in saying that these forums are important for D* to gather info about the issues and how seriously we take them. I would rather have them read them silently than not at all.
cbearnm
11-15-06, 04:58 PM
That could be mostly due to the relative stability of the Tivo software, though. Although I do remember quite a bit of traffic about the Tivo2Go stuff, and the newer receivers being "slow" or "laggy" due to a slower microprocessor in the new ones.
I'm not sure if I would say that Series 3 TiVos are quite as stable as S2. It seems like their boards are burning with many issues similar to ours. I think the HR10-250 is a rock solid product (especially now with 6.3 software) and I am hopeful that the HR2 will get there, but I'm not holding my breath. That's why I kept the HR10 activated.
cybrsurfer
11-15-06, 05:03 PM
Earl does a perfect job. Quick, timely response, with a real world perspective. That's more than official to me.
Most members already know Earl does a great job... :lol: You don't need to pucker up Okay...
Sharkie_Fan
11-15-06, 05:32 PM
That is too bad. I thought is was a fantastic way to build goodwill and credibility. It really demonstrated a respect for the customer, it showed that they understood that it was their customers that would make or break them.
Sadly, goodwill and credibility in this day and age don't do a whole lot to build customer loyalty, so there really isn't much driving force to do it from D*s end.
I've been involved in family businesses my whole life - grew up around my granddad's shop and now my dad and I run our own shop. I can remember as a kid when your customer's came in, there was a friendship between you. You knew them. You knew their kids. We went to birthday parties for their kids. Because of that, there was some give and take between us and the customer.
At some point, that began to change. Businesses don't get friendly with their customers anymore. And in turn, customers don't feel particularly loyal to the company. In our line of work, it all comes down to the bottom line. The days of "I'll pay a little more because I know it'll be perfect" don't really exist anymore. Now, it's "I'll take it to the lowest bidder, and they damn well better make sure it's perfect".
We could go around and around as to which came first, but the end result is the same. It's REALLY hard in today's marketplace to build any kind of REAL customer loyalty. If DISH came out tomorrow and could offer NFL Sunday Ticket for $50 less a year than D*, I'd venture a guess that there would be a MASS exodus. Even if it weren't for the hardware problems that D* users are struggling with right now.
So, sadly, the consumer feels no loyalty, and businesses don't feel the need to work any harder than they absolutely have to. (Generally anyway. I can't say that EVERY business and EVERY consumer are that way, but we deal with a lot of local businesses and that seems to be the pervasive attitude)
That could be mostly due to the relative stability of the Tivo software, though. Although I do remember quite a bit of traffic about the Tivo2Go stuff, and the newer receivers being "slow" or "laggy" due to a slower microprocessor in the new ones.
I take it you haven't been to TCF since the new pricing strategy was announced.
belogical
11-15-06, 07:46 PM
Most members already know Earl does a great job... :lol: You don't need to pucker up Okay...
I don't know Earl from a crack rock, I have no need to pucker up. I just appreciate the job he does here.
Earl Bonovich
11-15-06, 09:43 PM
I don't know Earl from a crack rock, I have no need to pucker up. I just appreciate the job he does here.
As much as I like a good pucker up......
Seriously... thank you for the words... but enough is enough.
Back to the discussion.... you are making me blush... :D
perilous
11-16-06, 06:07 AM
But, over the years...they have taken less and less of a public role there.
If even true, so what???? The point was more "involvement" from D*TV "officially" would be beneficial to all. This feigned "official" ignorance by D*TV of any issue whatsoever -- HR-20 problems, all of a sudden "sold out" boxes (which most of us know is utter BS ;) ), HD-LITE, etc. -- with apparently some "corporate hope" that no one will notice is simply quite silly IMHO. :eek2: :rolleyes:
Furthermore, Earl, is there any reason why you never cease to bash Tivo? Are you a disgruntled former employee or something? You're not "Bullwinkle" in disguise are you? For many of us, being part of the Tivo Community and WILLING Tivo beta testing VOLUNTEERS was extremely rewarding. The integrated D*TV/Tivo DVR was simply for me the NEATEST easy-to-use product for A/V I have ever owned. From the SD Sony SAT-60 to the HD HR-10, I have been never less than astounded how it truly "changed how I watched TV". :grin:
All I know is D*TV needs to get its head out of its a@& and it would be nice if all of these "excuses" from all of you "apologists" would simply stop!!! :nono2:
admiral39
11-16-06, 06:59 AM
If even true, so what???? The point was more "involvement" from D*TV "officially" would be beneficial to all. This feigned "official" ignorance by D*TV of any issue whatsoever -- HR-20 problems, all of a sudden "sold out" boxes (which most of us know is utter BS ;) ), HD-LITE, etc. -- with apparently some "corporate hope" that no one will notice is simply quite silly IMHO. :eek2: :rolleyes:
Furthermore, Earl, is there any reason why you never cease to bash Tivo? Are you a disgruntled former employee or something? You're not "Bullwinkle" in disguise are you? For many of us, being part of the Tivo Community and WILLING Tivo beta testing VOLUNTEERS was extremely rewarding. The integrated D*TV/Tivo DVR was simply for me the NEATEST easy-to-use product for A/V I have ever owned. From the SD Sony SAT-60 to the HD HR-10, I have been never less than astounded how it truly "changed how I watched TV". :grin:
All I know is D*TV needs to get its head out of its a@& and it would be nice if all of these "excuses" from all of you "apologists" would simply stop!!! :nono2:
The integrated TIVO/D* DVR was nothing but a slow, bloated POS IMO, and in the opinion of a lot of others. If that's your idea of a dream system, then I trust that we will never agree on anything.
That said, do you really expect D* to be any different from any other cable/satellite provider out there? They all have their excuses, and most problems are cloaked in feigned ignorance. But, because they are not sending you apologies and offering you free swag or something you assume that they don't give a rip?
I don't think any of us could be considered D* "apologists". Who of us here has not held them accountable for the problems that exist? Just because every post is not laden with hate toward the company does not mean that we're so in love with D* that they get a pass on accountability. That's why people like Earl are so integral to the community. While we all would love for the scenario offered at the start of this thread to become a reality, it likely will not, but we have knowledgeable folks who are in the know to keep us informed and up to date.
No D* is not perfect. But the rate at which they are sending out updates is encouraging. To me, that's being accountable and admitting that there are issues, without actually coming out and publishing press releases every time one of their boxes takes a dump. Everyone would love to have a fully-charged an stable system, but until they stop rolling out improvements, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Earl Bonovich
11-16-06, 07:51 AM
Furthermore, Earl, is there any reason why you never cease to bash Tivo? Are you a disgruntled former employee or something? You're not "Bullwinkle" in disguise are you? For many of us, being part of the Tivo Community and WILLING Tivo beta testing VOLUNTEERS was extremely rewarding. The integrated D*TV/Tivo DVR was simply for me the NEATEST easy-to-use product for A/V I have ever owned. From the SD Sony SAT-60 to the HD HR-10, I have been never less than astounded how it truly "changed how I watched TV". :grin:
Where have I been bashing TiVo?
And if you think me pointing out that TiVo reps have played less of a role in TCF, as Bashing TiVo ... you have a very low threshold for what considers bashing.
I have never "basehed" TiVo for squat... compared the product, point out their issues... but never blantently bashed them, as there is no reason too.
About 6+ months ago, I was put to the fire by the R15 forum, for "bashing" the TiVo product... and in turn, I have changed the way I discuss the TiVo product.
Unless the thread or the topic specifically warrants a comparison to a TiVo product, I avoid it. I have personally owned over 10 DirecTivo units, and at least 3 SA units.
I still recommend TiVo to friends who don't have DirecTV, and in some cases... I still recommend DTiVos to users that have asked which way they should go in their purchases....
upnorth
11-16-06, 08:25 AM
The integrated TIVO/D* DVR was nothing but a slow, bloated POS IMO, and in the opinion of a lot of others. If that's your idea of a dream system, then I trust that we will never agree on anything.
That said, do you really expect D* to be any different from any other cable/satellite provider out there? They all have their excuses, and most problems are cloaked in feigned ignorance. But, because they are not sending you apologies and offering you free swag or something you assume that they don't give a rip?
I don't think any of us could be considered D* "apologists". Who of us here has not held them accountable for the problems that exist? Just because every post is not laden with hate toward the company does not mean that we're so in love with D* that they get a pass on accountability. That's why people like Earl are so integral to the community. While we all would love for the scenario offered at the start of this thread to become a reality, it likely will not, but we have knowledgeable folks who are in the know to keep us informed and up to date.
No D* is not perfect. But the rate at which they are sending out updates is encouraging. To me, that's being accountable and admitting that there are issues, without actually coming out and publishing press releases every time one of their boxes takes a dump. Everyone would love to have a fully-charged an stable system, but until they stop rolling out improvements, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Well said I agree 100% Thank You.:)
Marcia_Brady
11-16-06, 09:33 AM
The integrated TIVO/D* DVR was nothing but a slow, bloated POS IMO, and in the opinion of a lot of others.
Bloated or not, it never missed a single scheduled recording (even with 6.3). Our HR20 seems to boot one (or more) almost every night.
And I realize the R15 is a completely different animal, but I cannot help making comparisons since that too was developed by D* and still has problems.....are we destined for the same treatment with our HR20's?
I'm hoping we're all not here 12 months from now with the same problems, but the D* track record doesn't boost my confidence all that much.
And Earl doesn't really "bash TiVo" IMO, but it's pretty evident to me (simply by reading his posts) that he feels negative towards Tivo.
And there's nothing wrong with that -he's entitled to his preference and opinion...as are we all.
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