Which outside antenna should I install?

[bovac97]

I have a HR20. In preparation for the activation of the OTA, and since it is starting to get cold here in Wisconsin, I would like to install an outside antenna. Based on AntennaWeb, a medium directional antenna would work best, need one to cover the red and blue colors. Question is what manufacturers have people on this forum went with? Terk looks like they make a modestly priced one, but have read both good and bad reviews about it. I live about 25 miles from the transmitters and basically have a clear line of site except for a few trees at the edge of my subdivision.

[cybrsurfer]

I have a HR20. In preparation for the activation of the OTA, and since it is starting to get cold here in Wisconsin, I would like to install an outside antenna. Based on AntennaWeb, a medium directional antenna would work best, need one to cover the red and blue colors. Question is what manufacturers have people on this forum went with? Terk looks like they make a modestly priced one, but have read both good and bad reviews about it. I live about 25 miles from the transmitters and basically have a clear line of site except for a few trees at the edge of my subdivision.

The HR20 and other receivers like HR10 do not need an amplified signal. I have gotten poor results using an amplified antenna. I'm trying to save you the headache. There are many good outdoor antennas available. I'm sure you will get responses from members on models. I use a $50 Radio shack model which works fine for my OTA locals with my HR10, some of the stations I'm able to get are 65 miles away from me.

Amplified works fine with a tv tuner card for a computer like the PC or MAC, but not for STB, because STB's have a built in amplifier. Usually if the tuner needs an amplifier, it will specify it in the manual or on the packaging to give you a heads up on what's best for the product.

[btmoore]

I have a HR20. In preparation for the activation of the OTA, and since it is starting to get cold here in Wisconsin, I would like to install an outside antenna. Based on AntennaWeb, a medium directional antenna would work best, need one to cover the red and blue colors. Question is what manufacturers have people on this forum went with? Terk looks like they make a modestly priced one, but have read both good and bad reviews about it. I live about 25 miles from the transmitters and basically have a clear line of site except for a few trees at the edge of my subdivision.

Check antennaweb and if all your DTV is UHF based, this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&pg=1&summary=summary&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&productId=2103088&accessories=accessories&kw=yagi&techSpecs=techSpecs¤tTab=techSpecs&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&origkw=yagi&support=support&numProdsPerPage=80&tab=summary)should work fine for you and it is only $25 and you can get it at every radio shack. http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265531w345.jpg

You might even be able to go indoor (assuming you dont live in a Faraday cage) this is my favorite and it is very retro and just $15, the classic Bow Tie (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103058&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&pg=2&parentPage=family). http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265499w345.jpg

If you do need VHS and UHF, $40 and this classic (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103084&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&pg=1&parentPage=search&origkw=yagi&kw=yagi&numProdsPerPage=80&parentPage=family)should work fine. http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265527w345.jpg

You do not need any of those crazy space ship looking "HDTV antennas", it is all marketing, the old classics work great and they are cheap.

[btmoore]

one more thing, you will need a 75 ohm to 300 ohm transformer

External (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103912&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032207&allCount=37&fbn=Type%2FAdapters&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FAdapters&fbc=1&parentPage=family)
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266620w345.jpg

Internal (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062054&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032207&allCount=37&fbn=Type%2FAdapters&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FAdapters&fbc=1&parentPage=family); this will plug right into the back of your HR20 and you just screw in the 70 ohm inputs

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2159961w345.jpg

Total cost ~ $5

[cybrsurfer]

one more thing, you will need a 75 ohm to 300 ohm transformer

External (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103912&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032207&allCount=37&fbn=Type%2FAdapters&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FAdapters&fbc=1&parentPage=family)
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266620w345.jpg

Internal (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062054&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032207&allCount=37&fbn=Type%2FAdapters&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FAdapters&fbc=1&parentPage=family); this will plug right into the back of your HR20 and you just screw in the 70 ohm inputs

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2159961w345.jpg

Total cost ~ $5

Newer antennas already either have a 75 ohm connector already only or they come with a transformer.

[btmoore]

Newer antennas already either have a 75 ohm connector already only or they come with a transformer.

Yep, but the ones I posted all will need a transformer

[Tyrod]

Home Depot has some decent antennas at a lower price point than The Shack.

[nFavor]

The HR20 and other receivers like HR10 do not need an amplified signal. I have gotten poor results using an amplified antenna. I'm trying to save you the headache. There are many good outdoor antennas available. I'm sure you will get responses from members on models. I use a $50 Radio shack model which works fine for my OTA locals with my HR10, some of the stations I'm able to get are 65 miles away from me.

What if you have an amplified antenna and just don't plug in the power supply for the amp? The reason I ask is because I already have such an antenna.

[cybrsurfer]

What if you have an amplified antenna and just don't plug in the power supply for the amp? The reason I ask is because I already have such an antenna.

Most setups allow you to turn off amplification if need be, I would do this if it's an option for you. Simply unplugging it should be fine.

Generally amplifiers work better for analog transmissions not digital. You obviously want to get the digital signal in, so this is why I recommend not using amplifier. Many sales people will try to push amplified to get the sale, so just use your best judgment.

Good Luck.

[btmoore]

What if you have an amplified antenna and just don't plug in the power supply for the amp? The reason I ask is because I already have such an antenna.

Try it, and if you have a problem turn off the amp or bypass it. You will likely be fine

[Rambler]

If you do need VHS and UHF, $40 and this classic (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103084&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&pg=1&parentPage=search&origkw=yagi&kw=yagi&numProdsPerPage=80&parentPage=family)should work fine. http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265527w345.jpg
I'll concur with this. I got the above equivalent from Radio Shack (but not quite as large) with the pole and mounting hardware for around $40. Works great for HD and UHF. I'm about 50 miles from our transmitting stations.

[cybrsurfer]

I'll concur with this. I got the above equivalent from Radio Shack (but not quite as large) with the pole and mounting hardware for around $40. Works great for HD and UHF. I'm about 50 miles from our transmitting stations.

I have the next larger model from Radio Shack. I got the antenna rotor (Zenith) at walmart with remote for under $75. shipped to my door.

[bovac97]

I have the next larger model from Radio Shack. I got the antenna rotor (Zenith) at walmart with remote for under $75. shipped to my door.


What was the cost of the next larger unit from Radio Shack? Your $75 figure- is that with the antenna and rotor? Does this unit say how far it will receive signals from. All my locals are from Milwaukee, but Madison is about 60 miles away. I'd like to receive their signals as well if possible.

[911medic]

Check antennaweb and if all your DTV is UHF based, this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&pg=1&summary=summary&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&productId=2103088&accessories=accessories&kw=yagi&techSpecs=techSpecs¤tTab=techSpecs&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&origkw=yagi&support=support&numProdsPerPage=80&tab=summary)should work fine for you and it is only $25 and you can get it at every radio shack.
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265531w345.jpgThis is the one I have; I live ~26 miles from the towers, all my digital stations are UHF, and it works GREAT (or at least it did, when I had my HR10 up & running). It says it has up to a 75 mile range. I was able to mount it in my garage attic, so it's not exposed to wind & hail, and got great signal strength. For $25, I'm very happy with it.You might even be able to go indoor (assuming you dont live in a Faraday cage) this is my favorite and it is very retro and just $15, the classic Bow Tie (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103058&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032204&pg=2&parentPage=family). http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265499w345.jpgIf you go with this one, follow the instructions in this thread (http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=16626) to help eliminate any multipath issues due to the ribbon cable that comes with it.one more thing, you will need a 75 ohm to 300 ohm transformerExternal (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103912&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032207&allCount=37&fbn=Type%2FAdapters&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FAdapters&fbc=1&parentPage=family)
http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266620w345.jpg
Total cost ~ $5And you'll need one of these, either way, so don't forget to pick one up.

[cybrsurfer]

What was the cost of the next larger unit from Radio Shack? Your $75 figure- is that with the antenna and rotor? Does this unit say how far it will receive signals from. All my locals are from Milwaukee, but Madison is about 60 miles away. I'd like to receive their signals as well if possible.

The rotor is good for direction changing.

[bbroach]

I have never deployed a Terk that was worth the cost of the box it came in.

At your distance, I would recommend a Channel Master CM4221 four bay bow tie. This assumes all your OTAs are UHF, or at least Ch7 or higher VHF, which you will know from having visited Antenna Web.

The 4221 costs $25 from Solid Signal, plus about $18 for an eave mount. It's small (30"x20") and very unobtrusive, but has excellent gain & backside rejection and is not overly directional. You shouldn't need an amp at 25 miles unless you have topography between you and the transmitter. Beware of over amplifying OTA signals - overloading the front end of the receiver will cause reception problems. You can tell this is happening by wild swings in the signal meter; RS sells 6dB attenuators that are useful for adjusting the signal from a fixed gain amp down to a usable level.


regards, billb....

[nocaster]

All this talk about antennas makes me wish OTA was actually enabled.

Just thought I would beat on the dead horse a little. :)

[cybrsurfer]

All this talk about antennas makes me wish OTA was actually enabled.

Just thought I would beat on the dead horse a little. :)

less then 2 weeks away, let's hope it a national roll out and not staggered.

[bovac97]

I have never deployed a Terk that was worth the cost of the box it came in.

At your distance, I would recommend a Channel Master CM4221 four bay bow tie. This assumes all your OTAs are UHF, or at least Ch7 or higher VHF, which you will know from having visited Antenna Web.

The 4221 costs $25 from Solid Signal, plus about $18 for an eave mount. It's small (30"x20") and very unobtrusive, but has excellent gain & backside rejection and is not overly directional. You shouldn't need an amp at 25 miles unless you have topography between you and the transmitter. Beware of over amplifying OTA signals - overloading the front end of the receiver will cause reception problems. You can tell this is happening by wild swings in the signal meter; RS sells 6dB attenuators that are useful for adjusting the signal from a fixed gain amp down to a usable level.


regards, billb....


I have channels 4, 4.1, 6, 6.1 that I need to receive. How does this effect my buying decision? The rest are 10 and above. My preferred location would be in the garage attic if that makes any difference.

[btmoore]

I have channels 4, 4.1, 6, 6.1 that I need to receive. How does this effect my buying decision? The rest are 10 and above. My preferred location would be in the garage attic if that makes any difference.

Check antennaweb.org to see what you need for those stations.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

Attic is is typically fine, stucco walls can be a problem as they contain chicken wire.

[bovac97]

Check antennaweb.org to see what you need for those stations.

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

Attic is is typically fine, stucco walls can be a problem as they contain chicken wire.

I checked that website. To receive the red and blue color I need a medium directional attenna. I need one that can do both VHF and UHF, my channels range from channel 4 to 58. Looking for what brand to buy and from where, either online or at brick and mortar store. Basically looking for opinions from people that already have them which ones work good and which ones to stay away from.

[Rambler]

I checked that website. To receive the red and blue color I need a medium directional attenna. I need one that can do both VHF and UHF, my channels range from channel 4 to 58. Looking for what brand to buy and from where, either online or at brick and mortar store.
Check my above post that should work quite well for you also.

[nocaster]

I have channels 4, 4.1, 6, 6.1 that I need to receive. How does this effect my buying decision? The rest are 10 and above. My preferred location would be in the garage attic if that makes any difference.

Is your 4.1 and 6.1 actually broadcast on VHF 4 and 6 or does antennaweb show another frequency? Many DTV stations are actually broadcasting on UHF even though their channel assignment is in the VHF band...until 2009 anyway.

[911medic]

I need one that can do both VHF and UHF, my channels range from channel 4 to 58.Just because your channels are in that range doesn't mean they're VHF. What does Antennaweb say? It will tell you if they're really VHF and UHF.

EDIT: Punching in your Richfield, WI location shows you do have one VHF station, WMVS-DT, channel 10.1, PBS. So, if you need to get that PBS channel, you will need both a UHF/VHF antenna. You have another PBS station, WMVT-DT, channel 36.1, which is UHF, so if that's the only PBS station you need, you can get away with a UHF only antenna.

[bbroach]

I have channels 4, 4.1, 6, 6.1 that I need to receive. How does this effect my buying decision? The rest are 10 and above. My preferred location would be in the garage attic if that makes any difference.

You need to distinguish between the channel "number" (6.1, etc) and the frequency assignment. Look at the website again & I think you will see that the assignments for digital broadcasts are mostly in the UHF frequency slots.

Putting your antenna in the attic is not a good idea. In fact, with many types of roof, it probably won't work at all, because UHF is greatly attenuated by solid objects. You are better off with an eave mounted unobtrusive unit like the bow tie I recommended. Be sure you use quad shield RG6 and a modern connector technology such as Snap and Seal; keep the cable runs as short as possible and only interrupt them to meet code provisions for grounding blocks.


regards, billb....

[cawgijoe]

Radio Shack antennas will work fine, but if you want high quality, go with either Winegard or Channel Master. They will last much longer than the Radio Shack antennas mounted outdoors.

Winegard antennas use a 75ohm downlead so you don't need to purchase a transformer.

I use Winegard antennas based on the advice of a good friend of mine who makes his living as an RF Engineer. He works on huge government antenna projects. His personal choice is Winegard followed by Channel Master and then Radio Shack.

[bbroach]

..... you do have one VHF station, WMVS-DT, channel 10.1, PBS. So, if you need to get that PBS channel, you will need both a UHF/VHF antenna.

At 25 miles, probably not. The VHF channel number for 10.1 in that area is 8. According to the manufacturer's data, the antenna I recommended is good for High Band VHF, down to #7.


regards, billb....

[bovac97]

Radio Shack antennas will work fine, but if you want high quality, go with either Winegard or Channel Master. They will last much longer than the Radio Shack antennas mounted outdoors.

Winegard antennas use a 75ohm downlead so you don't need to purchase a transformer.

I use Winegard antennas based on the advice of a good friend of mine who makes his living as an RF Engineer. He works on huge government antenna projects. His personal choice is Winegard followed by Channel Master and then Radio Shack.

I looked on newegg.com and they list 2 Winegards, the WINEGARD SS-2000 16" Square Shooter HDTV Antenna and the WINEGARD SS-1000 16" High-Band VHF/UHF Digital/Analog/HDTV Antenna System. The first one is $100, the second one is $80. Anybody know what I get for the extra $20 and is it needed?

[nocaster]

Lowe's sells Channel Master if you have one near you. They should have everything you need.

[bbroach]

Radio Shack antennas will work fine, but if you want high quality, go with either Winegard or Channel Master. They will last much longer than the Radio Shack antennas mounted outdoors.
What he said...



Winegard antennas use a 75ohm downlead so you don't need to purchase a transformer.

Channel Masters come with the required balun as well.



I use Winegard antennas based on the advice of a good friend of mine who makes his living as an RF Engineer. He works on huge government antenna projects. His personal choice is Winegard followed by Channel Master and then Radio Shack.
Winegard makes very nice products. I wouldn't pay double to use one instead of the CM4221 for your application, though. The Winegard bow tie design (PR 8800) is an eight bay, is not spec'ed for High Band VHF, and is roughly twice as directional as the 4221; it's also twice as big and twice the price, without the 75/300 ohm balun. My 81 year old dad assembled and installed an eave mounted 4221 in about an hour, including running the cable through his attic; he gets 31 digital SD & HD channels looking across the Texas prairie towards Houston, with no amplifier.

regards, billb....

[gusbuf]

I have a Terrestrial Digital DB4. It is small and very powerful. I am about 25 miles on avg from the tower. It was even installed backwards and my HD picture si , as JJ Walker would say, "DynOmite!!!." You can find it online easily. Also, TErrestrial Digital recently came out with a new antenna called the Lacrosse which is supposed to be da bomb when it comes to combining a cool looking antenna and a great picture. Here is a photo of the DB4http://www.terrestrial-digital.com/images/DB4-medium.jpg

Here is the Lacrosse
http://www.terrestrial-digital.com/images/lacrosseNewPhotoMediumCut.jpg

[bbroach]

I dug up a comparison chart of several HD antennae, and it contradicts what I have read elsewhere regarding Channel Master bow tie units supporting High Band VHF. HB is only an octave below the low end UHF frequency assignments, so it isn't completely out of the question, but this chart shows that the CM bow ties' gain can't be much better than the standard reference dipole below 200MHz. If you need High Band VHF to receive any of your digital channels, you should pay the extra $ and buy either of the Winegard products instead of the CM. If all of your stations are above 470MHz, buy the CM unit & use the savings for some good QS RG6 and a Snap and Seal tool.


regards, billb....


http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

[911medic]

Putting your antenna in the attic is not a good idea. In fact, with many types of roof, it probably won't work at all, because UHF is greatly attenuated by solid objects. You are better off with an eave mounted unobtrusive unit like the bow tie I recommended.

regards, billb....While I don't doubt this may be true, my personal experience is contradictory. My $30 investment, mounted in my garage attic and protected from the elements, has outstanding signal strength. Prior to mounting it in the attic, I just had it sitting on the garage floor, connected to the receiver, and at ground level--aiming not just thru a roof but thru my entire house--signal strength was still great. High 90's on the HR10 I was using at the time. I was trying it indoors first to determine if I needed to mount it outside on the roof, but quickly determined that was unnecessary. Now I don't have to worry about wind/hail damaging it.
Granted, my experience may be the exception, not the rule, but for minimal investment, I've had a great outcome.

[nocaster]

While I don't doubt this may be true, my personal experience is contradictory. My $30 investment, mounted in my garage attic and protected from the elements, has outstanding signal strength. Prior to mounting it in the attic, I just had it sitting on the garage floor, connected to the receiver, and at ground level--aiming not just thru a roof but thru my entire house--signal strength was still great. High 90's on the HR10 I was using at the time. I was trying it indoors first to determine if I needed to mount it outside on the roof, but quickly determined that was unnecessary. Now I don't have to worry about wind/hail damaging it.
Granted, my experience may be the exception, not the rule, but for minimal investment, I've had a great outcome.

I'll second that. Just to give an extreme example. My former house was 63 miles from the antenna farm and I was able to pick up everything with a Channel Master 3020 mounted in my attic. We have one station that is VHF and it would break up if the weather wasn't just right, but everything in the UHF band was in the high 80's and 90's on an H10. The antenna was no more than 14 feet above ground level in my attic.

[jsherm007]

Get the $25 radio shack antenna!!! It's the best deal, and it's range is beond 75mi! I pick up signals from 90mi plus!

[bbroach]

While I don't doubt this may be true, my personal experience is contradictory. My $30 investment, mounted in my garage attic and protected from the elements, has outstanding signal strength. Prior to mounting it in the attic, I just had it sitting on the garage floor, connected to the receiver, and at ground level--aiming not just thru a roof but thru my entire house--signal strength was still great. High 90's on the HR10 I was using at the time. I was trying it indoors first to determine if I needed to mount it outside on the roof, but quickly determined that was unnecessary. Now I don't have to worry about wind/hail damaging it.
Granted, my experience may be the exception, not the rule, but for minimal investment, I've had a great outcome.

It really depends on the structure of your roof; my tile roof is so dense that a huge 110 mile rated VHF/UHF combo mounted in my attic got no stations from a tower 25 miles away. Even with outdoor mounting and a clear view across the prairie, my dad looses stations if he doesn't keep his trees trimmed. Metal in the roof or drainage system can also cause problems with UHF reception. Outdoor mounting is the surest way to avoid some preventable problems. When I make a recommendation to another Forum member, I do tend to be conservative, so that I'm not leading them to a marginal, or even unusable, solution.

regards, billb....

[kb7oeb]

What if you have an amplified antenna and just don't plug in the power supply for the amp? The reason I ask is because I already have such an antenna.

In my experience if you run the signal through an unpowered amp it drastically reduces the signal strength. It might still be strong enough to work though but it would be better if you can bypass the amp.