Which Coax and why?

[Fishin2Deep4U]

I have an install sceduled in the upcoming weeks.

The previous owner of my residence had D* installed and must have mistunderstood the service folks and removed the dish and his recievers. Oh well, no biggie.

But, the previous install has coax and some unsightly holes left behind. I was considering prewiring the locations I want the wire to be run into. I was thinking about taking the rats nest of wiring down from the house and using it to pull the new wire with. The longest run is approximately 50'. Then a shorter 25'.

Anyone think that the installer would be agreeable to this as it may add some time? Or, should I just prewire the entire thing out to the mounting location and making it easy on myself. There's more holes in the exterior of this place than a golf course.

I appreciate any suggestions!

Dave

[Tom Robertson]

If you have the tools, compression fittings, and talent then my suggestion would be to DIY. I've had ok installers and bad installers. Even one or two good installers. But I've pretty much always installed my own wiring. That way I know the only holes are the ones I want (or make accidently...)

Sometimes installers will be happy to let you install and gift you with coax, connectors, and other goodies (depending on what their warehouse lets them carry on the truck.) The nice thing about their coax and connectors is they will be up to spec.

I'm also too thrifty to pay $65/hr for inside wall fishing. There are only two outside holes on my house for coax. The rest is all hidden, neat, and my wife is happy. The local installation supervisor has sent new techs to my house to ask questions about installs if they need to... :)

Now, I have gone both ways on the dish install. I've installed BUD, 1 lnb, 2lnb, and 3lnb, but I've let D* do that sometimes too. The last, an AT9, I let them do.

Oh yeah, while I ran D* coax, I also ran some structured cable alongside for future phone and network purposes. My only boo-boo is I found out about the solid copper core requirement just after I ran most of the spool... so all the D* stuff is on their coax and the OTA is on the steel core.

Cheers,
Tom

[Fishin2Deep4U]

Thanks for the reply.

While I do not have the ends, crimpers, ect. I was thinking about pulling raw wire and letting them button up the ends. The stuff can't be that expensive.

What coax do I need?

Thanks again!!

Dave

[captain_video]

If you're installing the AT9 dish then the requirements call for solid copper RG6 like the Belden 1694A. It can get relatively expensive but I found a good price at Tri-State Electronics (https://www.tselectronic.com/belden/1694a.html) online. The cost was about $350 for 1000' with shipping. Most places have it for about $600 and up for 1000'. You can probably buy it in smaller spools but the cost is slightly higher per foot. If you don't need that much cable then there's no savings in getting the larger spool.

Check ebay for the compression tool and some Thomas & Betts compression connectors. I only paid about $16 for my Zenith compression tool and it does the job quite well. Some tools cost over $50 but that's just overkill IMHO. Don't use crimp connectors as they do not meet the requirements of the AT9 dish. Once you've used the compression connectors you'll throw away your crimping tool and connectors anyway. They're far easier to install and are of much higher quality.

The reason for solid copper vs. copperclad steel is due to the voltage requirements of the new LNBs. The steel RG6 has a higher voltage drop and may not be able to supply the proper switching voltages to the LNBs, especially if you have any long cable runs.

[carl6]

For the short lengths of your runs, you will probably have no problems with copper clad steel as opposed to solid copper. We don't know how long your old coax was in place, but if more than a couple of years I would recommend replacing it. Solid copper is the specified requirement though.

What runs do you need? Four lines from the dish location to a central point where you will put a multiswitch. Two lines from the multiswitch location to any DVR location, and one run from the multiswitch to any non-DVR receiver. I highly recommend one additional run (3 to a DVR, 2 to a non-DVR) so you have a line you can use if you also want over-the-air or choose to modulate your output and feed it someplace else in the house.

If you decide to buy your own coax, then you should also get the connectors. There are subtle differences in connectors for use with dual shield versus quad shield, etc. The installer may not have the correct connectors for the particular coax you buy, so don't count on him/her being able to terminate your runs.

Carl

[bobnielsen]

I bought some Carol brand RG-6 (solid copper center conductor) at Home Depot for (I recall) less than $20 for 100 ft. They also have DataShark connectors and compression tools at good prices ($15 for the tool). Quad-shield is designed to meet the leakage requirements on cable providers and isn't really needed for a satellite installation unless you have some high-power VHF/UHF signals nearby.

[Herdfan]

If you're installing the AT9 dish then the requirements call for solid copper RG6 like the Belden 1694A. It can get relatively expensive but I found a good price at Tri-State Electronics (https://www.tselectronic.com/belden/1694a.html) online. The cost was about $350 for 1000' with shipping.

1694A is way overkill for DBS. It is more suited for baseband applications such as component distribution.

Belden 1829BC will work just fine at around $100/1000'.

[Fishin2Deep4U]

Thanks for all the info guys!!

I'll get started on setting everything up.

Is there a location I should plan on having a multiswitch? This is not for a HD install, but I expect that to happen down the road a ways. So, I will plan on the cabling now.

I will have an R15 and a single reciever to start. Then possibly a second R15 if I can get the freebie. :)

Dave

[bobnielsen]

They'll probably put in a single-LNB dish in that case. That would have two cables going to a multiswitch (not the same one as used with HD). If you install it yourself, it would probably make sense to run 4 cables from the where the dish is to a convenient point for the multiswitch and run 2 cables from there to each receiver location. Upgrading to HD would be easy in that case (with 2 receivers you won't need a multiswitch with the 5 LNB dish, just use couplers to tie the incoming cables to the ones going to the receivers.)

[Staszek]

Is there a difference between RG6 and RG6/u?

My other house was RG6 braided.


The cable I put in this house (2 years ago) was RG6/U doesnt say whether its braided or not (bought at Home Depot). It was a 500ft roll I cannot remember what I paid for it.

I didnt replace the cable when I moved up to the AT9 and HD receiver, all runs are under 100'.

So far everything seems good, they are all direct runs no switch. All my signals are in the mid 90's usually 95-97.

[bobnielsen]

Is there a difference between RG6 and RG6/u?

My other house was RG6 braided.


The cable I put in this house (2 years ago) was RG6/U doesnt say whether its braided or not (bought at Home Depot). It was a 500ft roll I cannot remember what I paid for it.

I didnt replace the cable when I moved up to the AT9 and HD receiver, all runs are under 100'.

So far everything seems good, they are all direct runs no switch. All my signals are in the mid 90's usually 95-97.

I recall that all RG cables used to all have /U as part of the original pre-WWII military nomenclature (which no longer applies). I suspect the original RG-6/U cable had a polyethylene dielectric and a copper braid, no foil.

[Staszek]

I recall that all RG cables used to all have /U as part of the original pre-WWII military nomenclature (which no longer applies). I suspect the original RG-6/U cable had a polyethylene dielectric and a copper braid, no foil.

Interesting, well this cable does have foil. I guess because my runs are short it really doesnt matter.

[bobnielsen]

All the cables with foil I have seen (I haven't used quad-shield) have minimal braid as well, but I don't think it adds anything to the performance, except maybe to provide conductivity across a tear in the foil. I have used several other types of cable for non-TV applications and they don't have foil but use a much heavier braid (or even double braid), often silver-plated copper (RG-214/U, which is 50 ohm, not 75 and nearly 1.2" dia.)

[Fishin2Deep4U]

I obtained some quad from a buddy that had a few hundred feet left over. Will this be okay?

What kind of connectors should be used? Compression or crimp?

Also, what is a preferred location for a multiswitch? Does it need to be accessable? I have a spot near the dish mount in the attic storage that would be convienent for me. :)


Thanks for all the help guys. You have been a wealth of knowledge.

Dave

[Tom Robertson]

I obtained some quad from a buddy that had a few hundred feet left over. Will this be okay?

What kind of connectors should be used? Compression or crimp?

Also, what is a preferred location for a multiswitch? Does it need to be accessable? I have a spot near the dish mount in the attic storage that would be convienent for me. :)


Thanks for all the help guys. You have been a wealth of knowledge.

Dave

If the quad is solid copper in the center, you should be gold. hmm, mixed metalfore...

The attic sounds like an ideal spot. So long as it makes for convenient cable runs that aren't too nasty long, go for it!

Lastly, the connectors must be good quality compression connectors. At these frequencies you can get interference from local UHF transmissions if you aren't careful. You might just let Directv install the fittings on your cable if you want.

Cheers and good luck,
Tom

[Fishin2Deep4U]

The coax is a Carol C5785.

I assume some Depot stock that a buddy had left over.

Any idea on a local type source of compression fittings? Local box stores?

Thanks again!!

Dave

[Dbadone]

They'll probably put in a single-LNB dish in that case. That would have two cables going to a multiswitch (not the same one as used with HD). If you install it yourself, it would probably make sense to run 4 cables from the where the dish is to a convenient point for the multiswitch and run 2 cables from there to each receiver location. Upgrading to HD would be easy in that case (with 2 receivers you won't need a multiswitch with the 5 LNB dish, just use couplers to tie the incoming cables to the ones going to the receivers.)

More than likely it's going to be a 3 lnb dish. and it has a built in multiswitch that will have a 4 receiver capacity however 2 will be used for your r15.

[Milominderbinder2]

My thoughts would be:
1. Read the HR-20 Installation Tips (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67769) pdf.
2. Let D* run the cables and make the connections for the 4 wires. It is a free part of the install. You can alsways go back later and do your own.
3. Be there when he installs. Help pull wire. You will get the best work if you are there to see and if you are helping.
4. No one lese is mentioning this but:
+ Grounding is critical. - it's not just to protect from lightning strikes as many assume.
+ No tight bends or kinks is critcal. No cuts in the cable is critical.

Gigahertz is a little bit like voodoo. Two wires done at the same time the same way by the same guy may give very different signal strengths. Some have reported that for a small extra fee the installer would run an extra set of cables as backup.

There are so many other things to be thinking about right now. Again please look at the HR-20 Installation Tips (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67769).

Also you might be wanting to look ahead at the UNOFFICIAL HR-20 Tips and Tricks (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67933). In particular please consider a good UPS.

- Craig

[bobnielsen]

The coax is a Carol C5785.

I assume some Depot stock that a buddy had left over.

Any idea on a local type source of compression fittings? Local box stores?

Thanks again!!

Dave

I bought a DataShark compression tool at a local Home Depot for $15. I also bought that brand of connectors, but it looks like it would work with other brands as well.

[Fishin2Deep4U]

More than likely it's going to be a 3 lnb dish. and it has a built in multiswitch that will have a 4 receiver capacity however 2 will be used for your r15.

Interesting.

So, how many runs of wire should I pulling where?

Sorry for the dumb questions!

Dave

[bobnielsen]

Interesting.

So, how many runs of wire should I pulling where?

Sorry for the dumb questions!

Dave

You'll need to look down the road a ways. How many receivers do you thing you will eventually end up with and where will they be located. Is there a common point from which you could run cable to each location (such as a crawlspace, basement or attic)?

I would recommend determining a place where a dish can be mounted which can see satellite locations from 99 to 119 degrees. In your case, that will be from southeast to nearly due south. Run four cables from that location to the common point I mentioned above. Run two cables from this point to the location of your initial receiver (in case you either get a DVR now or later). You can just connect them together with an adapter for now but if you need to add a multiswitch later you will be all set. If you want to add a OTA antenna for any locals which aren't carried, run an additional cable in each case.

[Fishin2Deep4U]

You'll need to look down the road a ways. How many receivers do you thing you will eventually end up with and where will they be located. Is there a common point from which you could run cable to each location (such as a crawlspace, basement or attic)?

I would recommend determining a place where a dish can be mounted which can see satellite locations from 99 to 119 degrees. In your case, that will be from southeast to nearly due south. Run four cables from that location to the common point I mentioned above. Run two cables from this point to the location of your initial receiver (in case you either get a DVR now or later). You can just connect them together with an adapter for now but if you need to add a multiswitch later you will be all set. If you want to add a OTA antenna for any locals which aren't carried, run an additional cable in each case.


Tha attic is definitely the easiest. The prior owner had D* so I am guessing the same dish location will work.

I will upgrade to HD down the road mnost likely, but until some more content is offered and I get my hands on a new television, I can wait.

I am planning on a DVR in the main viewing location and a standard reciever in the master. Or vice versa. Either way, I will have cabling to run to the "other" set just in case. Also, there will be a repeater small LCD in the kitchen so we don't have to pause movies, shows, ect when cooking or popcorn call out our name.

I apprecite the info.

Looks like I will run 4 cable runs to the attic/ dish. From an easy access point, I will terminate and run additional lines for the DVR and standard reciever. Also, I'll get the other cabling done as well.

Part of the reason I want to do this once is I going to blow in a bunch of isulation in the living space portion of the attic. So, I don't want to have to crawl and sort my way through that everythime I want to change something minor.

The union points for a future multiswitch will be in the attic over the garage. It's served by a pull down stair and I have real easy access.

What is the "standard" dish now? 3 LNB? Or just a single? Will they install the 5LNB if If tell them I plan to upgrade?

Dave

[Fishin2Deep4U]

Just got the specs on my Carol wire. It's copper clad steel. The spec reads as follows.

C5785 RG 6 CCS/Quad 60/40% AL Braid CATV/CM

My install is a few days away and I want to get the runs pulled tomorrow.

So, is CCS ok for my install? Longest run is 125'. Primary run to the living room is approx 40'.

Any ideas of a source that I may find locally? If I need to make a change, I need to get this stuff fast.

Thanks!!

Dave

[bobnielsen]

125 ft. is marginal, but if the dish is a Slimline, that draws less current so it may work. I would go for solid copper just to be sure. My nearest Home Depot (Poulsbo, WA) had it the last time I checked. I bought the compression tool and connectors there also.

[Tom Robertson]

For long runs I'd stick to solid copper. It will make life and troubleshooting much easier if you can eliminate power issues to the dish.

Cheers,
Tom

[Fishin2Deep4U]

Thanks guys. Maybe I'll run down to Puyallup and check out thier inventory.

Dave

[pbenson1167]

My install occured today and the installer brought two boxes of cable....both boxes read Copper plated / Copper clad cable.

[Fishin2Deep4U]

Yeah, I returned the CCS today and I cannot find solid copper anywhere.

I am going to lket them do a "normal install and then change the routing of my cables later. I am out of time.

Dave