View Full Version : Any more magic windows opening soon?
Slyster
12-18-06, 05:00 PM
Just wondering.
Anyone watch The Lost Room? That was EXCELLENT I thought.
PoitNarf
12-18-06, 05:21 PM
Most likely no from what Earl has been saying.
i'd love to see one more magic window from santa since i missed it too :(
litzdog911
12-18-06, 08:24 PM
Nothin is expected until after the New Year.
jmferraiolo
12-18-06, 08:28 PM
does that include the national release of 108b?? :eek2:
RunnerFL
12-18-06, 08:33 PM
Nothin is expected until after the New Year.
That makes the "rumor" fact then... No OTA until early 2007....
Earl Bonovich
12-18-06, 08:56 PM
Nothin is expected until after the New Year.
Nothing in the sense of "Windows", which is the topic of this thread.
There most certainly is the possibility of the national release of an OTA inclusive release.
HDTVsportsfan
12-18-06, 08:58 PM
I guess we're back to reading between the lines again.:)
Earl Bonovich
12-18-06, 09:14 PM
And just as I am writing that...
I got an update.
0x10b is expect to start being Automatically downloaded to systems this week.
Slyster
12-18-06, 09:19 PM
National you mean? :) :)
Earl Bonovich
12-18-06, 09:21 PM
National you mean? :) :)
Yes.. eventually.
It won't go to everyone at once... they are still doing the stagard rollout, but if nothing else shows up... 0x10b will soon become the latest National Build.
And just as I am writing that...
I got an update.
0x10b is expect to start being Automatically downloaded to systems this week.
FANTASTIC!
Tom Robertson
12-18-06, 09:25 PM
I guess we're back to reading between the lines again.:)
Place your bets, place your bets!
Will it be 0x10b or a newer release?
When will it be released to all of PST?
Merry Christmas,
Tom
Hokay so this is old news. Got caught up spending time with my dad before I could send. :)
Earl Bonovich
12-18-06, 09:26 PM
Place your bets, place your bets!
Will it be 0x10b or a newer release?
When will it be released to all of PST?
Merry Christmas,
Tom
Can I play?
West Coast first I hope. :D
Tom Robertson
12-18-06, 09:31 PM
Can I play?
Sorry, dealer can't play. But because of udaman, you are most welcome to the game. :)
Merry Christmas,
Tom
A big welcomed surprise. It looks like D* is going to make good on their promise. I am impressed.
The next promise I am looking forward to is the two new satellites to carry national MPEG4 next year. I wonder if there is any news or movement on that.
hdtvfan0001
12-19-06, 04:23 AM
Don't count on it being called 10B....the national release number will most likely be a newer one....
Herdfan
12-19-06, 06:07 AM
Sorry, dealer can't play. But because of udaman, you are most welcome to the game. :)
Sure the dealer can play. Wouldn't you love to see what is in his hand?;)
Yes.. eventually.
It won't go to everyone at once... they are still doing the stagard rollout, but if nothing else shows up... 0x10b will soon become the latest National Build.
thats scary, since getting the 10b upgrade on my unit, i have woken up to a box that will not display video/audio (ie black screen lockup). the GUI and remote works fine, and you can change channels, but the the video/audio never starts.. just a black screen. there is a thread discussing this if anyone is interested.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=73508
I also have major reservations about 10b. My box now locks up more than ever and it has trouble with some OTA stations that work fine through the TV tuner. This release will generate many calls to D*.
yamaham
12-19-06, 07:02 AM
hoping to get some sort of update, i've still got 0xFA
DblD_Indy
12-19-06, 08:44 AM
Don't count on it being called 10B....the national release number will most likely be a newer one....
Yes, Let's hope they call it...10Q = the Q stands for Quality! :hurah:
yamaham
12-19-06, 10:22 AM
perhaps ID 10T
Stuart Sweet
12-19-06, 10:26 AM
If it does, that will be great for me... I had 0x10B for one whole day before my HR20 turned into a big silver hockey puck. I don't need OTA (but I did have it set up and enjoyed PBS in HD), don't have a network connection, but was experiencing better trickplay and overall better performance in the guide and while surfing with 0x10B than with previous. Of course it could have just been the recent reset that did it, but that wasn't the case with 0x104 or 0x108.
swartzentruber
12-19-06, 12:48 PM
0x10b will soon become the latest National Build. I'm surprised it's being rolled out nationally with the low VHF bug, unless it will be a slightly later build with that fixed. That could affect a lot of people's ability to receive some of their OTA HD, and cause a lot of support calls, unless my understanding of the bug is incorrect.
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 12:51 PM
I'm surprised it's being rolled out nationally with the low VHF bug, unless it will be a slightly later build with that fixed. That could affect a lot of people's ability to receive some of their OTA HD, and cause a lot of support calls, unless my understanding of the bug is incorrect.
Sure it can cause an increase of calls.
But if it is a bug with the "data" being sent to the unit, it is independent of the release.... but if it is an issue with the software, how long do you sit on it, because of the issue... which effects customers, but not all customers.
swartzentruber
12-19-06, 12:54 PM
Sure it can cause an increase of calls.
But if it is a bug with the "data" being sent to the unit, it is independent of the release You're around Chicago -- can you pick up 2-1? My understanding of this bug is that in many cases, low VHF digital channels simply can't be picked up, and that seems like a showstopper. As I said, my understanding might be wrong.
marty45714
12-19-06, 12:56 PM
Sure it can cause an increase of calls.
But if it is a bug with the "data" being sent to the unit, it is independent of the release.... but if it is an issue with the software, how long do you sit on it, because of the issue... which effects customers, but not all customers.
Earl, I gotta honestly say I'm surprised it's being released publicly too after the discussion we had yesterday about issues with recording OTA's. Looks like there may be a problem there. It would seem like at least one more fix and test would be the best.
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 12:58 PM
You're around Chicago -- can you pick up 2-1? My understanding of this bug is that in many cases, low VHF digital channels simply can't be picked up, and that seems like a showstopper. As I said, my understanding might be wrong.
I can not recieve it, and DirecTV is aware of the reports, specifically about WBBM-DT
But what I am saying... there are multiple reasons on why it could not be working. Some can be fixed outside of the HR20's software... others are with the HR20's software.
The give and take.... do you hold off the rollout of a desired update, because a relatively "small" population, has an issue with one (or some) channels?
Given those factors?
It is not a perfect scenerio... never will be.
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 01:01 PM
Earl, I gotta honestly say I'm surprised it's being released publicly too after the discussion we had yesterday about issues with recording OTA's. Looks like there may be a problem there. It would seem like at least one more fix and test would be the best.
But you can say that about almost "any" issue in the system....
Not everyone is reporting the problem you (and I to a marginal degree) have seen (yes I know there where others).
DirecTV is aware of those reports, and used it as a factor.
In that particular case...
OTA is enabled, for everyone... but those that are experiencing that issue.
Don't use it right now for recording.
Not optimal, but again... doesn't hold up a very desired feature.
For an "avoidable" issue, if it is affecting those people.
Again... not "optimal"... but, if it takes a "month" (just for example, I have no details on that particular example), to fix that problem.
Do you sit on the release for another Month?
The give and take.... do you hold off the rollout of a desired update, because a relatively "small" population, has an issue with one (or some) channels?
Given those factors?
It is not a perfect scenerio... never will be.
Please apply this to every reported problem the HR20 has had since its introduction.
love,
DirecTV
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 01:04 PM
Please apply this to every reported problem the HR20 has had since its introduction.
love,
DirecTV
Well, yes..... it has to be applied to every reported issue.
Is this a "core issue" with the software... is it caused by a series of factors... could it just be the specific system... could it be a combination of SL's, ect...
You can say that for just about every piece of software/hardware out there.
And there in-lies the basis of how you determin if you should push out a software update, or wait for another build.
Have you ever wondered what was in the builds "in-between" the release numbers.... They are sequential.
Tom Robertson
12-19-06, 01:05 PM
I can not recieve it, and DirecTV is aware of the reports, specifically about WBBM-DT
But what I am saying... there are multiple reasons on why it could not be working. Some can be fixed outside of the HR20's software... others are with the HR20's software.
The give and take.... do you hold off the rollout of a desired update, because a relatively "small" population, has an issue with one (or some) channels?
Given those factors?
It is not a perfect scenerio... never will be.
I'm sure some of those factors include the fact that there are 4 versions of the software in the wild: 0xFA, 0x104, 0x108 and 0x10B. At some point the "costs" associated with tracking all 4 versions, even if they do not allow calls to CSRs start to add up.
Merry Christmas,
Tom
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 01:06 PM
I'm sure some of those factors include the fact that there are 4 versions of the software in the wild: 0xFA, 0x104, 0x108 and 0x10B. At some point the "costs" associated with tracking all 4 versions, even if they do not allow calls to CSRs start to add up.
Merry Christmas,
Tom
Most definently it plays a factor into the decision.
marty45714
12-19-06, 01:09 PM
Again... not "optimal"... but, if it takes a "month" (just for example, I have no details on that particular example), to fix that problem.
Do you sit on the release for another Month?
First off, let me say that I am an IT guy, so I come from that perspective. The normal procedure in releasing software is that when you bring in a new set of features, you release them as alpha and beta tests and then as a release candidate, each being larger sections of the customer base, before you release it to your entire customer base. I would think it would benefit DirecTV by reducing the number of calls to the support center, if they could work 99.9% of the bugs out of every new feature before they released it to the public. Just my $.02. FYI- If they wanted to keep releasing code via "santa" until most of the bugs were worked out, I would be one of the happiest men on earth. I love doing analysis and bug reports like this.:grin:
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 01:15 PM
First off, let me say that I am an IT guy, so I come from that perspective. The normal procedure in releasing software is that when you bring in a new set of features, you release them as alpha and beta tests and then as a release candidate, each being larger sections of the customer base, before you release it to your entire customer base. I would think it would benefit DirecTV by reducing the number of calls to the support center, if they could work 99.9% of the bugs out of every new feature before they released it to the public. Just my $.02. FYI- If they wanted to keep releasing code via "santa" until most of the bugs were worked out, I would be one of the happiest men on earth. I love doing analysis and bug reports like this.:grin:
I am from an IT world as well.... and fully understand that.
But we are not dealing with the typical "IT" scenerio.
Where it is practical in say my business, to let something be used by a test base for months, until they are satisfied...
Different mind set here... you have customers out there, that are not part of this forum... that all they know is that they can't use x,y,z feature.
So long as the CSR level knows what is going on.... or people come and find places like this... Some of those issues can be avoided..
For examle the WBBM-DT in Chicago issue... Very straight forward.
Sorry, there is a known issue with WBBM-DT and the system.... we are working on it, but in the mean time... enjoy WMAQ, WLS, WGN, PBS, WTTW, WPWR, WFLD, ect.....
The staggard rollout is there just for that purpose, to keep call levels down, during an upgrade period... No matter what DirecTV does, they are never going to hit a 100% mark. Some box out there, is going to have a problem with a release... Simply the law of the land, some box will have a problem.
The question that DirecTV has to ask themselves, and decide on...
At what level are we satisfying enough people vs those that may have issues; to push this version of the software.
Again, not optimal... probably never will be optimal.
swartzentruber
12-19-06, 01:24 PM
Where it is practical in say my business, to let something be used by a test base for months, until they are satisfied...
Different mind set here... you have customers out there, that are not part of this forum... that all they know is that they can't use x,y,z feature.
So long as the CSR level knows what is going on.... or people come and find places like this... Some of those issues can be avoided..
For examle the WBBM-DT in Chicago issue... Very straight forward.
Sorry, there is a known issue with WBBM-DT and the system.... we are working on it, but in the mean time... enjoy WMAQ, WLS, WGN, PBS, WTTW, WPWR, WFLD, ect.....
I guess I'll just have to disagree (in a nice way). I don't know what internal testing has been done for OTA, but the Santa releases seem just way too limited, particularly since both were so close together. I bet if another were done now, now that people are aware, DirecTv could get twice the response.
Also, I think that excluding a whole class of TV stations (low VHF) is hardly a minor issue. I certainly wouldn't want to roll out a release with that issue in place. Chicago is hardly the only city with a low VHF HD station.
Bajanjack
12-19-06, 01:29 PM
I guess I'll just have to disagree (in a nice way). I don't know what internal testing has been done for OTA, but the Santa releases seem just way too limited, particularly since both were so close together. I bet if another were done now, now that people are aware, DirecTv could get twice the response.
Also, I think that excluding a whole class of TV stations (low VHF) is hardly a minor issue. I certainly wouldn't want to roll out a release with that issue in place. Chicago is hardly the only city with a low VHF HD station.
I am not from the IT world. Forgetting all this technical stuff, as Earl is inferring, I'd much rather have the unit now with most of the features working well, then waiting months for it to be "perfected." Those who don't agree are free to wait as long as they would like!!!
disneyfreak
12-19-06, 01:30 PM
what do you folks mean by low vhf...how low? is 2 low or is 4 low? I cannot get my 4's to come in, but 5 comes in crystal clear.
Tom Robertson
12-19-06, 01:33 PM
what do you folks mean by low vhf...how low? is 2 low or is 4 low? I cannot get my 4's to come in, but 5 comes in crystal clear.
Channels 1-6 are in a group, much lower than everything else. (Channel 1 was abandoned for TV a long time ago, btw).
Are your 4's broadcast on a vhf channel? Or as is more common on a UHF channel that is mapped to 4's?
Merry Christmas,
Tom
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 01:43 PM
I guess I'll just have to disagree (in a nice way). I don't know what internal testing has been done for OTA, but the Santa releases seem just way too limited, particularly since both were so close together. I bet if another were done now, now that people are aware, DirecTv could get twice the response.
Your right, it probably would be larger.
Considering the tracking on the first one:
250+
The second is now over 400...
And that doesn't include any of the other forum boards out there, that picked up on it.
Doug Brott
12-19-06, 01:55 PM
... but the Santa releases seem just way too limited, particularly since both were so close together. I bet if another were done now, now that people are aware, DirecTv could get twice the response.
I suspect the first Santa Release was a test of someone's idea to get more people involved. The test process was apparently a success since a lot of people jumped on board. It would be nice if there was a secondary download method (not the 02468 installer-download method) to get updates so that the windows would not be as limited. It will probably become more important to get some real-world testing for things like Dual Live Buffers and Remote Access to settings.
I'm just glad I'm on the West Coast. I'd hate to stay up past midnight just to get the download (I probably would, though).
Brantel
12-19-06, 02:02 PM
It would be nice if there was a secondary download method (not the 02468 installer-download method) to get updates so that the windows would not be as limited. It will probably become more important to get some real-world testing for things like Dual Live Buffers and Remote Access to settings.
Thats a great idea. Lessens the risk, allows beta downloads to be available with a larger window etc.
I like it!
:D :D :D :D :D
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 02:06 PM
Thats a great idea. Lessens the risk, allows beta downloads to be available with a larger window etc.
I like it!
:D :D :D :D :D
The only problem with that is, the way the firmware distribution system works... To Do that, is a nightmare... as you have to know the Access Card (CAM) ID for each of the systems, that are to get the update.
So yes, if they establish a formal BETA program; that is EXACTLY how they would do it... but until then, given the system in place...
The window method is the only way it can be done.
(And yes, I have asked..... )
Brantel
12-19-06, 02:13 PM
Say for a future "Santa Type, limited window" beta update, they include a little code that lets the box recognize a new forced download code that only people who come here or are approved beta testers would know?
Would this be possible?
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 02:17 PM
Say for a future "Santa Type, limited window" beta update, they include a little code that lets the box recognize a new forced download code that only people who come here or are approved beta testers would know?
Would this be possible?
Possibly, if they rewrote some code segements.
But then what would happen if you no longer want to be in the "Santa" mode...
Doug Brott
12-19-06, 02:20 PM
The only problem with that is, the way the firmware distribution system works... To Do that, is a nightmare... as you have to know the Access Card (CAM) ID for each of the systems, that are to get the update.
We can still wish - heck, I bet DirecTV wishes now :lol: . No, let me say that if Santa is the path of least resistance, then I say do it that way. 400+ on a short notice release is a good test group. If it starts occurring often, then I'll be it will stabilize at a number > 1000. I guess my only suggestions if this does become the method is that there are multiple opportunities - perhaps 2 or three times over a "Release Candidate Update Week."
Thanks for trying, though.
Brantel
12-19-06, 02:21 PM
Possibly, if they rewrote some code segements.
But then what would happen if you no longer want to be in the "Santa" mode...
Force an update with the old code of 02468 and bang, you are back at the national released version.
Earl Bonovich
12-19-06, 02:26 PM
Force an update with the old code of 02468 and bang, you are back at the national released version.
But what if one of those releases, does something to the system (more specifically the hard drive), that is in-compatible with the previous version.
Brantel
12-19-06, 02:30 PM
But what if one of those releases, does something to the system (more specifically the hard drive), that is in-compatible with the previous version.
Ha, you got me there but Beta testers take risk! :icon_bb:
Ok, seriously how far ahead of the "national" released version could this group get. I would say not far enough that situations like this could happen. I would see this working for beta testers of likely release candidates not Alpha testers.
ajwillys
12-19-06, 02:31 PM
But what if one of those releases, does something to the system (more specifically the hard drive), that is in-compatible with the previous version.
Yeah Earl, I agree with you. Alot of people say they want to be beta testers because they assume that means they get better software than they have now. But what happens when that 'nightly build' from Directv renders their HR20 unusable for the night of the big game when you've invited 20 friends over?
I think having regular users getting anything more than a 'Release Candidate' version on their own equipment (even if it is leased) is a bad idea.
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