I guess I don't understand this "lease" idea

[Quattro]

If I'm "leasing" my HR-20 and it goes bad, I thought I'd be able to call DirecTV and have it replaced. Apparently not. I just got off the phone and discovered that I'd pay $70 for a service call and then if that didn't work, I'd have to pay for a new HR20 unit. Say what? I aksed him, why don't I just go down to Best Buy and buy a new one and dump this in the trash? He said I could do that if I want to. It sounds more like I "own" this than "lease" it. When I had cable TV, when the receiver I was "leasing" broke, I went down to the cable store and exchanged it for a new unit. Silly me, I thought I could do that with DiecrTV.

I have a pysco HR20 unit. It is about 4 months old. Here is the basic problem: it refuses to boot up whenever power is disconnected. I then have to wait for 12-24 hours for it to time out and work again. Tonight I came home turned on the receiver and just get a black screen and no sound. I could get the banner on top and access to all the menus. Of course, I had to end up rebooting it again and here I sit with no TV again:( .

Thanks,

-Pete

[naijai]

well the receiver that you have no problem with but a service call has nothing to do with your lease of the equipment

[traderfjp]

well the receiver that you have no problem with but a service call has nothing to do with your lease of the equipment

I would think with a lease that they would replace the unit if it was damaged. Is it still under warranty? I have the service pan for $5.00 a month and have never had a problem with getting an box replaced. This sure doesn't sound right to me. You can always call the retention dept. and see if they can do anything for you. Let us know what happens.

[DonCorleone]

I could see if there seemed to be some user error thing going on, but if it's not functioning they should (and they confirmed with me when I ordered it) that they would send a mailer and allow me to ship it to them for a replacement.

[Staszek]

I would think a unit that is 4 months old would be under warranty.

Yea I also dont get the whole leasing thing DTV went to, they charge you the same amount as when you owned it its just a one time lease fee now instead of ownership fee.

Also with CTV they would just replace broken equipment as part of the lease fee.

I dont mind the idea of leasing the equipment but there should be some benefit to it.

[cruise350]

It only comes with a ninety day warranty, after that if you don't have the protection plan they want to charge you. So here is what you do, go online tonight and add the protection plan. Then call them tomorrow or wait a day. They will see you have the protection plan and they will either send a replacement or the not charge you for the service call. If you don't want to continue paying the $5 for the protection plan, cancel it after your problem has been fixed.

Or, call and ask for retentions, tell them you are going to cancel your service if they will not replace the unit. They should send you out a replacement and probably give you some kind of discount on your bill.

[bonscott87]

The problem is the service call. If you need one then you get charged for that unless you have the protection plan. If you can replace the receiver yourself then they will just FedEx you a replacement receiver at not cost (or at most a nominal shipping fee).

If you are sure it's a bad receiver and you believe a replacement will work then you need to "play stupid" with the CSR on the phone. Don't go through all the details of whats wrong. Just simply say it's locked up and it won't boot up anymore. They will probably want you to reboot it by unplugging. Do so and say it doesn't come back up. They'll send you a new box right away.

Now if it's not obvious it's a bad receiver and whatever the problem is you can't fix then you'll just need to suck up the cost of the service call if you need it or just get the protection plan and have no worries about cost.

[billyhol]

does cable have a service call charge? how can anyone be expected to pay a service charge on something that they do not own?

[DCFSCAZARES]

When you speak with D* representatives, you have to be courteous at all times. When you get a negative response from the the respresentative, you simply hang up and call back again and hope that the next representative has had a better day. I done this before. When I don't like the answer, I say "thank you," end the call and call back. If you are hostile or rude, towards the D* representative, you take the risk that he/she will input the negative comments in the computer and the next D* representative will read those comments and won't be so helpful to you. Remember, these people are constantly dealing with angry people and they don't have to be nice to you. They will play your game (keep you waiting and accidental hang ups).

[Dbadone]

It only comes with a ninety day warranty, after that if you don't have the protection plan they want to charge you. So here is what you do, go online tonight and add the protection plan. Then call them tomorrow or wait a day. They will see you have the protection plan and they will either send a replacement or the not charge you for the service call. If you don't want to continue paying the $5 for the protection plan, cancel it after your problem has been fixed.

Or, call and ask for retentions, tell them you are going to cancel your service if they will not replace the unit. They should send you out a replacement and probably give you some kind of discount on your bill.

The Protection Plan does not take effect until 30 days after it is ordered. If you need a service call you can get their Service Plus Protection Plan and the service call is $14.95 and once ther service plan takes effect $5.99 per month. Canceling after your problem is fixed prior to 1 year of service is $10 early cancelation fee and reverting the service call for $55 for a total of $65 early cancelation fee. After the 90 day warranty is out you can get another leased receiver for shipping and handling of $19.95 with the protection plan it is free. Hope this helps.

[billyhol]

When you speak with D* representatives, you have to be courteous at all times. When you get a negative response from the the respresentative, you simply hang up and call back again and hope that the next representative has had a better day. I done this before. When I don't like the answer, I say "thank you," end the call and call back. If you are hostile or rude, towards the D* representative, you take the risk that he/she will input the negative comments in the computer and the next D* representative will read those comments and won't be so helpful to you. Remember, these people are constantly dealing with angry people and they don't have to be nice to you. They will play your game (keep you waiting and accidental hang ups).

unfortunately this is true - but, should not be happening - I pay over $100 a month for a service - if I call to complain it is because I am not getting the service that I am pay over $100 for...
for some reason there is an idea that all of us customers are expendable... that is not wise in a service business...
I was put on hold and then hung up on because I was trying to find out what happened to a service call that I was waiting for... I was told that no service call was scheduled and that I must be mistaken that the person I talked with did not set up the call... I was obviously upset because I had taken the day off of work...
come to think of it I can not really understand why I am still a customer... but when I called back and mentioned that - all they did was mention that I would have to pay a fee to get out of the two year commitment that was started three days earlier... mind you I did not have a working unit... I am an A-list customer - on one of the calls I asked to be put on the B list...

[jkc120]

Wait a minute. So I paid $300 for a "lease", and if this unit has a problem outside of the 90 day period, I have to buy a new one?!

What the hell kind of lease is that? So I have to pay them another $8/mo just for the privilege of replacing a broken unit that I don't even own? What a crock.

And it's especially disconcerting given this unit is not the most stable or reliable thing out there. :nono2:

[veryoldschool]

Trying to deal with D* can be one of the most frustrating thing bar none.
The CSRs are supposed to be nice and helpful. They have a job I couldn't do... dealing with idiots, morons, call the average customer what you want. OF course we're not these, but this is what they deal with all day long.
So, I [having been where all of you are] now try to "make their day". I don't expect a rocket scientist on the other end. I don't expect to even get the right answer, no matter how high "up the food chain" I go. I have gotten bad info at every level.
Their phone system can make you even more angry before you even get through.
If it takes too long, hang up and call later.
If you don't like the answer, hang up and call back.
If you get to the right person, and they enjoy the conversation, you would be amassed at what you can get done.
Their computer system isn't much better than their phone system, so don't be surprised if loses your appointment or order. I have had this happen and guess what? I called back later and it "was found".
Do you start to see the theme here?
Calling back can solve a lot of the problems for many reasons. When you get to know how to "work the system", you can have an enjoyable time and get what you wanted in the first place.
I've spend 28 hours over two weeks "beating my head against the wall", at the end, a 10 min call solved everything. Gee "I wish I'd know that" before I'd spent 27:45 hours on the phone.
Just an FYI for those can use it [and not go through the 27:45 hour part].
Life is too short. You'll never get out of it alive, so you might as well enjoy the ride. :grin:

[jkc120]

But what does this have to do with the topic of this thread? Are we all expected to seduce the CSR on the other line to get our HR20 replaced if/when we need to?

I'm sorry, but charging $300 for a unit that you don't own, and have to pay to get replaced is absurd.

Calling the CSRs and smooth talking your way into a free replacement is one thing, but it's not solving the core problem - some of us paid a lot of money for this non-perfect unit and now we find out we have to pay another couple hundred bucks to replace it, should it go bad? Absolutely ridiculous...

[veryoldschool]

Wait a minute. So I paid $300 for a "lease", and if this unit has a problem outside of the 90 day period, I have to buy a new one?! :nono2:
You may have paid $300 for the leased unit, but as a leased unit D* will replace it if it is defective. If you need more than a "self install" on the box, you will be charged [$70] for a service call. If there is a problem with cabling, switches, or the dish [that you can't do yourself] after the 90 days, you will need a service call. The protection plan would cover this. So far D* hasn't charge me for any of the replacements [#4 is coming via an installer so it to be "new" & not reconditioned].
Maybe this is because I am using the steps I posted above. I don't know but it "works for me". YMMV :)

[billyhol]

But what does this have to do with the topic of this thread? Are we all expected to seduce the CSR on the other line to get our HR20 replaced if/when we need to?

I'm sorry, but charging $300 for a unit that you don't own, and have to pay to get replaced is absurd.

Calling the CSRs and smooth talking your way into a free replacement is one thing, but it's not solving the core problem - some of us paid a lot of money for this non-perfect unit and now we find out we have to pay another couple hundred bucks to replace it, should it go bad? Absolutely ridiculous...

this is my point exactly... when your unit does not work you do not want to have to figure out how to hit the right hot buttons on a CSR to get them to solve the problem... all I want is the problem solved and for someone to be genuinly concerned that I have a problem... it is much easier to train your workforce to be helpful and service the customer than it is to train each of your customers...

[linuxworks]

Wait a minute. So I paid $300 for a "lease", and if this unit has a problem outside of the 90 day period, I have to buy a new one?!

What the hell kind of lease is that?

the TOS seem unfairly stacked on their side, doesn't it?

its all well and good that the hardware costs some money to make. and the software development (cough, cough) also takes income to sustain.

but they're trying to have it ALL ways. profit above all else. what a failed idea, the way they are implementing it.

I always was taught that to run a business, there are costs involved. if you have to invent something, well, that's just one of the costs.

you can relay that cost to the customers (almost always) but its HOW you do it - the devil is in the details - that matters.

to charge an initial fee for the equip sends one kind of message (that you own or co-own it). yet they call it a lease. they get a monthly rent on it and when you are a renter, you have the legal right to have the properly you rent repaired if it needs it. why does DTV get a 'pass' on this, though? sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I almost hope it does, too; as this kind of shady business practice should stop!

its like double dipping. they charge a purchase price and also a lease - then try to get out of the responsibility of the lease on yet other terms.

unbelievable. even more so, that its allowed to run this long with no legal challenges or class actions.

its my hunch that they make so much money on programming (content) that this is just a pure cash grab on their part. delivering content does NOT cost (I'm guessing) anywhere near what they spend per month to keep it going. they don't NEED this cash-grab to keep going in business.

they do it because they are currently getting away with it. big business = paid-for politicians = paid-for 'protection'. only a class action would correct this - if even that ;(

[veryoldschool]

I'm sorry, but charging $300 for a unit that you don't own...is absurd....
I thought is was absurd too, pointed this out to D*, and they agreed, so I didn't.
While you may have thought me "off topic", I was trying to help you with your problem.
If you just want to vent fine. If you want to know how I solved the problem.... Been there, done that.

[HR20screwed]

Last Tuesday the installer balled a wad of duct tape at the end of my existing 1 5/8 galv st post and crammed the huge 5LNB Slimline on - and called it a day.

No way am I living with this crap.

I had two "dropped" calls this AM - (2 hang-ups is more like it), and I was being nice.

I finally got what I wanted on the 3rd call, a competent installer (lets hope) returning to my residence tomorrow (no less - that's a shocker) to install 'my' Slimline 5LNB'r correctly. I downloaded the manual and quickly realized I can't fine tune it without the meter. So, I plan to pick up a 2 inch galv st post on the way home tomorrow from HD and have it in the ground tonight, plume.

Anybody need an HR10-250 in like new condition? Receiver includes everything the Tivo would come with as new (Power, HDMN-DVI, Component, Composite, Manual, Quickstart - the usuall) plus I'm throwing in my 3' Canare component cables and an access card. PM if you would like to make an offer.

[bwaldron]

to charge an initial fee for the equip sends one kind of message (that you own or co-own it). yet they call it a lease. they get a monthly rent on it and when you are a renter, you have the legal right to have the properly you rent repaired if it needs it. why does DTV get a 'pass' on this, though? sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I almost hope it does, too; as this kind of shady business practice should stop!

I don't have a major problem with the lease model. Whether I "own" it or not, the DVR is useless without D* service. Upside is that when an HR20 needs replacement, D* will provide a new one at no cost. Downside is not being able to sell old equipment on eBay.

If a problem seems to require a service call (i.e., not an obvious problem with the DVR, but one involving the dish/wiring/switch), the customer pays for that call, unless they have purchased the protection plan.

There are many other leases where you pay money upfront, BTW.

[rotaidem]

the TOS seem unfairly stacked on their side, doesn't it?

its all well and good that the hardware costs some money to make. and the software development (cough, cough) also takes income to sustain.

but they're trying to have it ALL ways. profit above all else. what a failed idea, the way they are implementing it.

I always was taught that to run a business, there are costs involved. if you have to invent something, well, that's just one of the costs.

you can relay that cost to the customers (almost always) but its HOW you do it - the devil is in the details - that matters.

to charge an initial fee for the equip sends one kind of message (that you own or co-own it). yet they call it a lease. they get a monthly rent on it and when you are a renter, you have the legal right to have the properly you rent repaired if it needs it. why does DTV get a 'pass' on this, though? sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I almost hope it does, too; as this kind of shady business practice should stop!

its like double dipping. they charge a purchase price and also a lease - then try to get out of the responsibility of the lease on yet other terms.

unbelievable. even more so, that its allowed to run this long with no legal challenges or class actions.

its my hunch that they make so much money on programming (content) that this is just a pure cash grab on their part. delivering content does NOT cost (I'm guessing) anywhere near what they spend per month to keep it going. they don't NEED this cash-grab to keep going in business.

they do it because they are currently getting away with it. big business = paid-for politicians = paid-for 'protection'. only a class action would correct this - if even that ;(


i just came from Charter cable. Their Moxi dvr cost me $15.00/month so with paying the DTV cost of dvr plus the investment in to the box, I am paying the same for a better box with more storage

[bonscott87]

does cable have a service call charge?

They sure do. Most charge at least $40 just to show up let alone fix anything. And you don't own a thing.

--------------------------------------------------------

Do people think service people's time is free? It all costs money.

If you aren't competent enough to fix it yourself then you will pay for a service call. Just like if you have water leak and you aren't a competent plumber then you'll be paying for a service call to the plumber. Same for electrician, roofer, etc. Why is satellite or cable any different?

If I have a problem around the house I'll be paying for said plumber, carpenter, etc. as I don't have the skills.
But home electronics is something I *do* have the skill in, thus no service call needed.
For someone else they would laugh at paying for plumber as they can do it themselves but then they bitch when they can't fix their satellite or cable and have to pay someone to fix it.

People need to get a little perspective. If you can't fix it then you'll be paying someone to fix it for you.

[c152driver]

unfortunately this is true - but, should not be happening - I pay over $100 a month for a service - if I call to complain it is because I am not getting the service that I am pay over $100 for...
for some reason there is an idea that all of us customers are expendable... that is not wise in a service business...


Too true. In the span of a month I have gone from a very satisfied customer to a very dissatisfied customer. Here's my sad story. Sorry if I bore anyone, but at least I think it will make me feel better.

In early December I bought my first HDTV and put myself on the HR20 wait list. DirecTV never called (why have a wait list?) and in late December I learned through DBSTalk that they were available on the DirecTV website. On December 28th, I placed my order online and scheduled an install for January 12. My credit card was immediately charged for the HR20.

On January 11th, Ironwood called and said that no HR20s were available and the next available appointment was in mid March! I said no thanks and that I would contact DirecTV to cancel the order.

On January 12th I called DirecTV and explained that it was unacceptable that they couldn't install a receiver that I already paid for for another 2 months and that I could drive to my local Circuit City and get an HR 20 today. I said I wanted to cancel my order because of the unacceptable wait. I also said I would like a credit for the $100 difference in price between DirecTV and Circuit City since DirecTV couldn't deliver.

The first representative (after being bounced around because their voice recognition system transferred me to the wrong department) said she cancelled my order but would have to transfer me to discuss any credit. No apology or anything. My call was dropped when I was being transferred.

I called back and the second person I talked to was downright hostile. When I explained that a two month wait was unacceptable she said "you'll just have to wait like everyone else". I explained that I had already been waiting and she proceeded to argue with me that there was no way they were out of stock of the HR20 (I guess she thought I was lying?). So I mentioned that I would like to cancel my service instead and she seemed very pleased with my decision. I finally asked if there was anyone else I could talk to about this. She sighed and put me on hold. After waiting on hold for 15 minutes, I was disconnected.

On my third call back, the gentleman I spoke to offered a $60 credit. Tired of dealing with it all, I said that was fine. He also mentioned that the previous reps hadn't actually cancelled my order and took about 15 minutes to cancel the order while complaining about computer problems. I went to Circuit City and picked up the HR20 that same day.

As of today, the refund still hasn't posted to my credit card account and when I called a couple of days ago they claimed the refund was processed on the 19th. Does anyone know how long DirecTV typically takes to process a refund? It looks like I am going to have to escalate this issue as well.

Considering how many of us have been treated, I wonder why we are spending time testing new HR20 software releases. Personally, I am doing it for the other HR20 users and not DirecTV. The problems with the HR20 just add to my current feelings about DirecTV.

Problems happen and I understand that. All I ask for is an apology and a sincere attempt at solving the problem. What bothers me more is the indifference at best and hostility at worst that I have experienced dealing with DirecTV. I have always been courteous and calm but that doesn't seem to work.

I would encourage everyone who has had similar experiences to write the CEO and tell your story. I plan on doing so in the near future. I'm not going to ask for anything in return. I just want to let him know how I feel.

Thanks for listening.

[veryoldschool]

:beatdeadhorse:

[HarleyD]

Do people think service people's time is free? It all costs money.

If you aren't competent enough to fix it yourself then you will pay for a service call. Just like if you have water leak and you aren't a competent plumber then you'll be paying for a service call to the plumber. Same for electrician, roofer, etc. Why is satellite or cable any different?

If I have a problem around the house I'll be paying for said plumber, carpenter, etc. as I don't have the skills.
But home electronics is something I *do* have the skill in, thus no service call needed.
For someone else they would laugh at paying for plumber as they can do it themselves but then they bitch when they can't fix their satellite or cable and have to pay someone to fix it.

People need to get a little perspective. If you can't fix it then you'll be paying someone to fix it for you.
And what if you were leasing the house? Who would pay for the plumber?

The landlord...no?

[veryoldschool]

And what if you were leasing the house? Who would pay for the plumber? The landlord...no?
I lease the HR-20, D* replaces it for free. [the landlord did pay].

[NYHeel]

They sure do. Most charge at least $40 just to show up let alone fix anything. And you don't own a thing.

--------------------------------------------------------

Do people think service people's time is free? It all costs money.

If you aren't competent enough to fix it yourself then you will pay for a service call. Just like if you have water leak and you aren't a competent plumber then you'll be paying for a service call to the plumber. Same for electrician, roofer, etc. Why is satellite or cable any different?

If I have a problem around the house I'll be paying for said plumber, carpenter, etc. as I don't have the skills.
But home electronics is something I *do* have the skill in, thus no service call needed.
For someone else they would laugh at paying for plumber as they can do it themselves but then they bitch when they can't fix their satellite or cable and have to pay someone to fix it.

People need to get a little perspective. If you can't fix it then you'll be paying someone to fix it for you.
When I had cable I never had to pay for a service call except they sometimes charged for initial installation (depending on the deal in effect you could usually get it for free.) The phone companys rule is that if the problem ends up being in your own house (where you own the wiring) then you have to pay for the call. If the problem is in the outside wiring (up to the box on the side of your house where the phone company owns the wiring) they will cover the service call. It all depends on ownership. If Directv wants to take ownership of their dishes and receivers then they have to cover their repairs. Also, even if you want to argue that you still own the Directv wiring (not sure if that's true) they should only make you pay if the problem ends up being in the wiring. That's the way the phone company did it. You would have to take the risk that the problem was outside the house.

[Staszek]

I lease the HR-20, D* replaces it for free. [the landlord did pay].

How long after you purchased it though was it replaced?

This is what my problem is, I think D is replacing them right now because there was alot of problems with them and to make customers happy they are just doing it instead of arguing because they know of the issues.

Now lets say a year from now when the unit is settled down no problems and you are past your 90 days, is D still going to replace them.

According to what I am hearing unless you are paying that extra $5 a month no they will not.

[veryoldschool]

Service just isn't what it used to be. This is a fact of like these days. My cable company now charges for a service call. My ISP now knows less than I do about their system.
D* leases the box, you own the rest. You have 90 days to get everything working right for free. If you pay for a service call, you have another 90 days. So far they've been replacing my box for free. I don't need a service call as I installed the rest. If I will need one I have the option to pay for it then or, as the phone company, or other service plans, pay for it in advance.
D* CSRs are no longer the "worst" as I used to think. There is a growing trend that all CSRs are becoming this way. Anybody tried to understand a CRS from a call center in India?

[jkc120]

I thought is was absurd too, pointed this out to D*, and they agreed, so I didn't.
While you may have thought me "off topic", I was trying to help you with your problem.
If you just want to vent fine. If you want to know how I solved the problem.... Been there, done that.

Sorry, my intent wasn't to rant, just to point out how absurd a lease model where you can't get the unit replaced is. You've had yours replaced a couple times, great! But as others have pointed out, what happens after the 90 day period or when the unit finally stabilizes and people have a legitimate hardware problem requiring a hardware replacement? If D* thinks people will pay another $300 just to have the privilege of using a unit they are "leasing" they are smoking crack.

[wmschultz]

I have never paid more than $21.95 to get a receiver replaced.

I have gotten 3 replacement HR10-250s and they were ones I paid for and I
owned. They were replaced by DirecTV even though I owned them.

I just sent back the bad ones when they sent me the replacement.

I just called about a bad SD Philips DVR, they are sending me a R15 free, no
shipping. They did the same thing when one of the SD DirecTV branded TIVO
DVR's went out.

I am currently waiting on a replacement for another bad HR10-250. I don't know
if it will be a HR20 or a HR10-250, again it is only 21.95.

Just refuse the Service call cuz they guy will show up and say, yep you need a new one....

[jkc120]

I don't have a major problem with the lease model. Whether I "own" it or not, the DVR is useless without D* service. Upside is that when an HR20 needs replacement, D* will provide a new one at no cost. Downside is not being able to sell old equipment on eBay.


But that's the point, we don't KNOW that D* will replace it for free indefinitely. If we are paying an indefinite lease on it, they should replace it. Otherwise, they should drop the lease fee or make the lease fee the "insurance" for a replacement if/when it's needed. Charging an additional $8/mo to be able to replace defective hardware on a lease is what we're challenging here. No one knows at this point, and I believe we've even seen where people have asked D* and as usual get different answers from different CSRs. So it's still up in the air.

[veryoldschool]

According to what I am hearing unless you are paying that extra $5 a month no they will not.
So far since last spring, they've done this.
Question: hearing or reading?
If this leased item, stops working, I have no reason to lease it anymore. My two year programing commitment is for this item. If they can't honor there side of the lease, then I don't feel obligated to "maintain" the lease.
I had a same sort of "issue" with the two year commitment. "What if" was a worry. I have trees that will someday block my signal. I can't remove them. What happens then?
D*s answer was: A service tech would need to verify this and then I would be released for the commitment without any charges [other than the service charge].

[NYHeel]

Service just isn't what it used to be. This is a fact of like these days. My cable company now charges for a service call. My ISP now knows less than I do about their system.
D* leases the box, you own the rest. You have 90 days to get everything working right for free. If you pay for a service call, you have another 90 days. So far they've been replacing my box for free. I don't need a service call as I installed the rest. If I will need one I have the option to pay for it then or, as the phone company, or other service plans, pay for it in advance.
D* CSRs are no longer the "worst" as I used to think. There is a growing trend that all CSRs are becoming this way. Anybody tried to understand a CRS from a call center in India?

My only issue is that if the service tech comes and the problem is with your (really Directv's) box, then they shouldn't charge me for the service call. That's how my phone company does it. If the guy has to come and fix the satellite dish alignment then fine they can charge me if they really want.

[bonscott87]

And what if you were leasing the house? Who would pay for the plumber?

The landlord...no?

Depends on your lease. I have lived in some places where it's your buck if something breaks. In others it's the landlord (and good luck getting him to fix it timely).

Just depends.

I'll give another example:
Water softners. Now I own mine (cause I paid the big $$$ up front) but many people rent it. Does that Culligan man come to your house for free to fix that rented water softner? Heck no...unless you pay that extra $4 a month "protection plan" they have that covers in house calls.

Phone company offers "line protection" for something like $8 a month.
Just had my cable company call the other day trying to sell me a line protection plan of their own for $5 a month.
Dish Network has their home protection plan as well.

This type of thing is sooooo common it's not even funny. It's a racket but it is what it is.

[veryoldschool]

My only issue is that if the service tech comes and the problem is with your (really Directv's) box, then they shouldn't charge me for the service call. That's how my phone company does it. If the guy has to come and fix the satellite dish alignment then fine they can charge me if they really want.
Been there, done that. They sent out a service tech. When he arrived told me it was $70. This was the first I'd heard to have somebody tell me what I already knew, it was a bad box. One call to D* had a $70 credit to my account & a replacement FedEx'd in two days.

[bonscott87]

My only issue is that if the service tech comes and the problem is with your (really Directv's) box, then they shouldn't charge me for the service call. That's how my phone company does it.

Many places do this, the cost of the service call is knocked off the cost of the repair. If it were me and a tech came out only to find out they had to just replace the box then I'd be on the horn with DirecTV for a credit on the service call because they wanted to send a tech (assuming I already suggested just replacing the receiver and they wouldn't).

[veryoldschool]

This seems to be a question of what someone's "heard" [I think these are called rumors]. Has anybody read something posted. printed, from D*?
Is this "what I heard from a CSR"?
If you're on this site, you should know by now that they don't always know what they're talking about.

[jkc120]

This seems to be a question of what someone's "heard" [I think these are called rumors]. Has anybody read something posted. printed, from D*?
Is this "what I heard from a CSR"?
If you're on this site, you should know by now that they don't always know what they're talking about.

Yes, it'd be nice if we could get a definitive answer to the lease question. I have a feeling they don't want to make a public statement endorsing free replacement, as they'll be afraid everyone with a minor glitch (and we know plenty are having them) will want to exchange the units. Earl is convinced 99% of these issues are software related, so D* probably is, too. So publicly saying they'll replace units under lease would potentially cost them a lot of money. I wouldn't expect any official/endorsed answer from D* anytime soon.

[NYHeel]

Many places do this, the cost of the service call is knocked off the cost of the repair. If it were me and a tech came out only to find out they had to just replace the box then I'd be on the horn with DirecTV for a credit on the service call because they wanted to send a tech (assuming I already suggested just replacing the receiver and they wouldn't).

I agree, I just think it should be the policy and you shouldn't have to call. My phone company has a line protection plan but that's only for one's own home wiring. The phone company wiring is covered at their cost because you don't own it. If they send a tech out and it's a problem on their wiring, you don't pay. If they send a tech out and it's a problem in your own home wiring then you do pay (unless you have the line protection plan).

Directv should do something similar where if they send a service call there should not be a charge if the problem ends up being with equipment that belongs to Directv (receiver). I know you could probably call them for a credit but then who knows if they will give it to you.

[veryoldschool]

Yes, it'd be nice if we could get a definitive answer to the lease question. I have a feeling they don't want to make a public statement endorsing free replacement, as they'll be afraid everyone with a minor glitch (and we know plenty are having them) will want to exchange the units. Earl is convinced 99% of these issues are software related, so D* probably is, too. So publicly saying they'll replace units under lease would potentially cost them a lot of money. I wouldn't expect any official/endorsed answer from D* anytime soon.
This may be true. I don't have a crystal ball. When D* explained the lease to me, the "plus" was they would replace it if it ever went bad. So far they have. Do things change? Hell yes, we used to test things before they were shipped. Now the "end user" is the one to do final test.

[veryoldschool]

Directv should do something similar where if they send a service call there should not be a charge if the problem ends up being with equipment that belongs to Directv (receiver). I know you could probably call them for a credit but then who knows if they will give it to you.
They did credit me. Will they alway? Who knows.
Unlike the phone company, there isn't a terminal bock where the feed comes to [and then into your house]. D* lease is for the box. The feed [dish] & wiring is yours, which would make it harder as "you own the front end" and D* owns the back end. [Where with the phone it is the other way].
I'm not trying to defend D*. I'm just trying to make some sense out of these postings, as "I fix things" & hate BS.

[DJConan]

This discussion has already been discussed in a thread I started a few weeks ago: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=76525.

Call again until you get someone who's willing to work with you on the phone and agrees the box is bad. If the CSR isn't willing to confirm the box is bad with you, call back and speak to a new CSR and try again. It sucks and is ridiculous, but what else can you do?

When the second CSR tried to have me format the box (which I had already attempted to do long before calling DTV) and realized that it would not format, my four month old box was replaced at no charge to me.

[KurtV]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the closest analogy to DirecTV's lease program; auto leases.

Just as with the HR20, and to some extent even more so, you pay significant upfront costs, you don't own the car you lease, and you are responsible for repairs outside the warranty period. With an auto lease you are also locked into a fairly lengthy contract; often for as much as three to five years.

The biggest difference to me is that for a fairly nominal fee (4.99 or 5.99 a month) I can transfer all responsibility for repairs to the lessor. Try to get that deal from your local car dealer.

I guess I just don't see what all the uproar about the DirecTV lease program is about. One caveat to that though: If sales people or CSRs misrepresented the terms of the lease (e.g. "if you lease it we'll replace for free it if it ever goes bad"), that's the result of poor training of their front line people at best and outright dishonesty at worst.

[linuxworks]

you have a good point with the car analogy.

the fact that they can get away with a thing called a 'lease' and also get outright money from you in addition to monthly payments - that does not mean that _all_ lease definitions have to or should include this.

on a typical apartment lease, there is also no money paid up front that is technically lost. there may be future months' rent (often they want first and last month's rent in advance) and there may be security deposits (note 'deposit' word). they will subtract 'damage value' at the end of the lease and you get to keep the remainder. but there is no money in any label that is 'used up' or just taken outright and not given back. not in any apartment lease I've ever signed.

so there you go. we've proven nothing ;) one example that does take money up front and never gives some of it back (car) and one that has no such bucket of money to keep and never give back (apartments).

just goes to show that you can write a lease either way. that means, at the -very- least, that DTV had an option and no one 'forced them' to have to adopt the money-up-front model of lease.

btw, they could have split up the money differently so no one noticed the up-front cost. figure in the amount you'd get from those $100-$300 up front equip fees and spread them out over your expected lifetime (business) with them. or use some other model - but a number could be computed that removes this offensive 'up front' fee.

for many people, the nickle and dime line items add up and annoy. better to move that number into the general monthly (where it would be so small, as to be noise-level, realistically) and that way you don't make it seem like you are trying to have your money both ways.

[Staszek]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the closest analogy to DirecTV's lease program; auto leases.

Just as with the HR20, and to some extent even more so, you pay significant upfront costs, you don't own the car you lease, and you are responsible for repairs outside the warranty period. With an auto lease you are also locked into a fairly lengthy contract; often for as much as three to five years.

The biggest difference to me is that for a fairly nominal fee (4.99 or 5.99 a month) I can transfer all responsibility for repairs to the lessor. Try to get that deal from your local car dealer.

I guess I just don't see what all the uproar about the DirecTV lease program is about. One caveat to that though: If sales people or CSRs misrepresented the terms of the lease (e.g. "if you lease it we'll replace for free it if it ever goes bad"), that's the result of poor training of their front line people at best and outright dishonesty at worst.

Honestly anyone who leases a car for 5 years has to be smoking someone, also putting down more then inception fees is a waste of money, I know alot of people do it, but they shouldnt.

The average lease is 36-39 months, and most manufactuers cover their cars for at least 36 months many have uped it to 48 months.

So I dont think that they are that similar at all. It would be similar if say D* made you have the 2 year comittment (like a lease of a car) and warrantied the item for 24 months. You may end up keeping it longer then that but your commitment is done as well as your warranty.

As for the person who mentioned phone line service fees, that is a racket but it also is not a good example for two reasons.

The phone company only charges you if they have to fix the line on the inside of your house. Anything outside the house including that box that they hang on the side of your house is covered by them. If a mouse chews through a line inside your house they wont fix that, and why should they they they most likely didnt even install that line.

Secondly your phone that is inside your house (well not in the last 20 years) is not leased you go to the store and you buy and own and bring it where ever you want.

At least D* $5.99 a month fee is covering an expensive peice of equipment, the phone company is covering basically nothing. The amount times its a wiring issue in someones house (unless the had recent construction done) is one in a million.

I cant complain to much because I only paid $21 for my HR20, but say you didnt and paid $300, guess what either I own that or charge me like a cable company does a never ending fee or like $10 a month but you upgrade it when it gets old, you replace it when it is broken.

If not and I have to cover repair costs then I want the right to sell the damm thing on ebay if I feel like it.

[DJConan]

Almost forgot, another reason DTV should be replacing the defective HR20s: http://directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=1300027#category5

Why lease the DIRECTV equipment?
As the technology in our receivers becomes more advanced, leasing allows us to continue to provide the latest equipment to you — at minimal cost. Leasing also permits affordable upgrades and free replacement receivers.

[jkc120]

Almost forgot, another reason DTV should be replacing the defective HR20s: http://directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=1300027#category5

Excellent find! Let's all save that page right now, in the event D* decides to yank it.

[KurtV]

...The average lease is 36-39 months, and most manufactuers cover their cars for at least 36 months many have uped it to 48 months.

So I dont think that they are that similar at all. It would be similar if say D* made you have the 2 year comittment (like a lease of a car) and warrantied the item for 24 months...

I don't want to make too much of this analogy, but your argument is flawed in at least one significant way. While it's true that many manufacturers warranty for 36 months that's only half the story. They actually warranty for the lesser of 36 months or 36,000 miles (and yes, I know that some warranty the powertrain longer and some bumper-to-bumper for more than 36K miles, etc.). Almost everyone drives more than 12K miles per year so almost everyone who leases a car for 36 or 39 months is out of warranty for a good bit of the lease period. Also, some major manufacturers still only offer 12 month/12K mile bumper-to-bumper warranties.

Like I said before, if DirecTV misrepresented the terms of service, people have a legitimate beef. Otherwise, their lease agreement is reasonably in line with at least one other model that's been around for a couple of decades or more.

[hoopsrgreat]

I agree totally with what others have said. If you call up and speak to anyone on the phone, and you are a pain in the a.., you arent going to get ANYTHING other than whatever the company standard deal says. put yourself in their shoes. They deal with crabby people all day, and you are just another number after the 50th call of the day. Talk to them like a normal person, be respectful, be courteous, just like you want them to be, and results are good.

I have been a subscriber since 98, and NOT ONCE have I had a problem with a csr. I have gotten 2 SD tivos fro free(paid shipping), got the hr10-250 free, gotten an h20 free, and just got the hr20 for about 45 bucks after credits. Had lines run, got new dishes.. FREE, FREE, FREE.

Never spoken to a single csr that was rude, but then again, I havent been rude to them.

Are they perfect? Heck no, they screw up often. They told me I would get the RSN feed of the Giants, A's, and Warrior games in HD (if available) by using the free H20. I am in the teams hom emarket, but out of the spot beam, so they were wrong, and the H20 went back as it was useless to me if I couldnt get the HD feed of the RSN. But what was I out? I just sent the receiver back in the prepaid box.


In the end, we all have options. None of the options are perfect, but for my money, Im staying put... at least for a few years.

[veryoldschool]

You would be really surprised what happens if you can make the laugh. If you can't [I've had a few], call again. I enjoy making "their day" [and having them make mine].
Is this idea so strange? :)

[Staszek]

I don't want to make too much of this analogy, but your argument is flawed in at least one significant way. While it's true that many manufacturers warranty for 36 months that's only half the story. They actually warranty for the lesser of 36 months or 36,000 miles (and yes, I know that some warranty the powertrain longer and some bumper-to-bumper for more than 36K miles, etc.). Almost everyone drives more than 12K miles per year so almost everyone who leases a car for 36 or 39 months is out of warranty for a good bit of the lease period. Also, some major manufacturers still only offer 12 month/12K mile bumper-to-bumper warranties.

Like I said before, if DirecTV misrepresented the terms of service, people have a legitimate beef. Otherwise, their lease agreement is reasonably in line with at least one other model that's been around for a couple of decades or more.

What manufacturer who sells cars in US only gives a 12/12k bumper to bumper? I havent seen one in a long time.

You are spliting hairs off over what people drive though the us average is still around 12k a year yes its rising but for every person who drives 18k a year I know 5 people who drive 10k a year. The point is on average most cars are covered for the whole term of the lease, even if not 100% because of mileage or a 39 month lease its still basically 95% coverage for the life of the contract.

90 days out of a 730 day contract is only slightly over 12% coverage, thats a BIG difference.

[chefmichael]

After my 1st box died, I was sent a "new" one, whicch of course, was reconditioned. That one was DOA. When I called customer service to get the "new" one replaced, the nice young lady I spoke with was going to send me another box, a reconditioned box. I stressed to her that's not what I wanted; all I wanted was a box that was comparable to the original new one I "bought" to replace my 1st. BTW, the 1st new box didn't even last 30 days before it died. She went on to tell me that the reconditioned ones were better most of the time because they had to be thouroughly tested before they're released. Well not this one... this one still had the channel guides, list and info from its original place and was even still connected to another person's account! So no, this particular box wasn't tested at all. I finally got "escalated" and talked to someone else who stressed that I couldn't get a new box, only a reconditioned one. Please, I pleaded, I understand the need to send out a reconditioned box but I didn't want another box that wouldn't work...all I was asking was for a comparable box as my 1st new one; ie a new never opened, never used box.

To make a long story short, after some billing housecleaning, things were finally made right and I'm getting a new never opened, never used box...2/17.

anyways, that's my lease experience

[veryoldschool]

90 days out of a 730 day contract is only slightly over 12% coverage, thats a BIG difference.
If this were true. So far nobody as shown where the 90 day warranty is applies to anything more than: installation, wiring, & the dish [none of which are leased]. :)

[linuxworks]

Excellent find! Let's all save that page right now, in the event D* decides to yank it.

no need, sherman. the wayback machine should have copies..

(archive.org is the wayback machine)

[Staszek]

If this were true. So far nobody as shown where the 90 day warranty is applies to anything more than: installation, wiring, & the dish [none of which are leased]. :)

Oh I am hoping its not true lol, I am just saying in comparison to auto leasing they are not the same.

[veryoldschool]

Back to my "pet peeve": For D* to have an effective reconditioned unit, IT needs to be fully tested before shipping.

[veryoldschool]

Oh I am hoping its not true lol, I am just saying in comparison to auto leasing they are not the same.
I think that a good thing as I'm not driving my DVR to work. :lol:

[KurtV]

What manufacturer who sells cars in US only gives a 12/12k bumper to bumper? I havent seen one in a long time.

You are spliting hairs off over what people drive though the us average is still around 12k a year yes its rising but for every person who drives 18k a year I know 5 people who drive 10k a year. The point is on average most cars are covered for the whole term of the lease, even if not 100% because of mileage or a 39 month lease its still basically 95% coverage for the life of the contract.

90 days out of a 730 day contract is only slightly over 12% coverage, thats a BIG difference.

Stas, If that's you in your avatar, I concede the argument. Otherwise...


My now 3 year old Mountaineer came with a 12/12 warranty. All manufacturers may be exceeding that now, but leases were have been around in something like the current form for a couple of decades.

As to the average being 12K miles per year, that may or may not be (I doubt it) but even if it is, that means that more half the people (roughly) exceed that. Some of those exceed that average by a substantial amount. My basic point remains just as valid as when I first made it: Auto leases are analagous to the DirecTV lease. Not identical; analagous.

The horse is dead, dissected, and buried. I'll stop the beatings from my end now.

[Staszek]

Stas, If that's you in your avatar, I concede the argument. Otherwise...


My now 3 year old Mountaineer came with a 12/12 warranty. All manufacturers may be exceeding that now, but leases were have been around in something like the current form for a couple of decades.

As to the average being 12K miles per year, that may or may not be (I doubt it) but even if it is, that means that more half the people (roughly) exceed that. Some of those exceed that average by a substantial amount. My basic point remains just as valid as when I first made it: Auto leases are analagous to the DirecTV lease. Not identical; analagous.

The horse is dead, dissected, and buried. I'll stop the beatings from my end now.

I am going to stop to except I have to ask, where in the heck did you buy your Mountaineer?

2004 Mecury Mountaineer Bumper to Bumper Warranty (months/miles) 36/36,000

2003 Mercury Mountaineer Bumper to Bumper 36/36,000

Major Components 36/36,000

Rust Through 60/unlimited

Roadside Assistance 36/36,000

For the record the avatar isnt me.......... I am much better looking lol!

[wmschultz]

Back to my "pet peeve": For D* to have an effective reconditioned unit, IT needs to be fully tested before shipping.

What if it was and it was damaged some how during transit? You are making a
very big assumption that they did not test it.

That said, I have received reconditioned HR10-250's with the old owners recordings on it....

[paulman182]

Here is my theory about free replacement under lease.
D* is intentionally ambiguious about it because they want to be able to choose which customers they replace for free, and which they do not.
A customer with a small programming package, who stays a month behind in his bill, will probably not get a free replacement. Those of us who send them more money, on time, each month will get one.

D*'s "good customers" hearing from a CSR that they had to pay $299 for a replacement HR20 would make many of them eat the cancellation fee and go elsewhere. D* would not like that, so the ones that D* wants to keep, get the free replacement.

This is a theory--I have no inside info--but it makes sense.

And I think a lot of the up-front fee is simply there to be discounted and make us feel that we got a good deal. Many of us got the HR20 free, or almost free, until they became in short supply.

[linuxworks]

you have very good theories. they make a lot of sense.

add the $300 fee and then waive it to make a 'special deal' when all along, it was planned to have some percent of the customers not have to foot that bill.

on your theory that they were clever enough to plan this all out - I wonder, though. for example, I never SIGNED anything that said there was a 2 yr committment. the papers the installer left were not a contract. is a verbal 'ok' over the phone legally binding? if so, then why do all the other 'strong' legal docs require signatures - and not only one, but hundreds! ;) cars and houses require dozens and even apartment leases require a good number of initials at various places.

so how can something over the phone be a legally binding document??

I never understood that part. anyone care to 'splain that to me?

[veryoldschool]

What if it was and it was damaged some how during transit? You are making a very big assumption that they did not test it.
That said, I have received reconditioned HR10-250's with the old owners recordings on it....
I've had & been reading about way too many "bad out of the box" posting. It could be a shipping problem, but not likely with the shipping boxes I've had. If it were just a shipping problem I very much doubt there would be as many as there seem to be coming out right now.
I'm sure nobody wants to think this and believe these are fully tested and certified before going in the box.
I've spent many years working at a major cable equipment manufacture. One of the first things "scratched" from the spreadsheet [to improve the bottom line] was testing. I have seen units returned defective, looked into them and seen the assembly arrows pointing to the omitted component's locations. The thinking has been "we can drop ship it from the stuffing house". This works if all of the parts are in & working. If you don't test them, you don't know. This may be part of PACE's problem, but it doesn't seem that D* does very much to ensure what they send out fully functions.
How about reading the third dead out of the box thread [for one]. This isn't the only posting of dead second tuners being "recycled" back to customers.
Nobody's perfect. we're all human, but there is are clear signs [to me] that D* needs to do a much better job "reconditioning".
One of the leads at Ironwood Communications explained their "recycling": they put a unit on the shelf for a month or two, then send it out with an installer. If it boots it's good to go.
Through testing cost time [money]. D* reconditioning program could be good [for them] if they did it correctly. Customers that had a problem would get a known good [used]unit. We all know things can break, but when it takes three or four units to "get a good one" it really cuts down the confidence factor with D*.
Fix the things you can & work on the things you haven't. D* is working hard on the software. There is no need to have the hardware bad too.
Excuse me, but this is my pet peeve, since it can be fixed. It's not "rocket science".
END of RANT...

[paulman182]

I never SIGNED anything that said there was a 2 yr committment. the papers the installer left were not a contract.

I don't know if a phone committment is legally binding or not, but my HR20 installer did have me sign a contract. I got a little yellow copy.

[linuxworks]

I don't know if a phone committment is legally binding or not, but my HR20 installer did have me sign a contract. I got a little yellow copy.

is that SOP?

my installer came twice. first to do the dish (they had no more hr20 until later that week) and the 2nd time just to drop off the hr20 (I told him I'd install it).

neither time was there anything looking like a legal doc or contract. the only signature was that of receiving equipment or an install.

maybe I was let out of my 'contract' (on day3 of it) because I complained a lot about the hr20 and also that they didn't have anything signed from me. yet. ??

perhaps receipt and payment of the first bill IS a form of contract?

don't know. seems odd and sloppy to me.

[veryoldschool]

don't know. seems odd and sloppy to me.
Just like most installations.

Those that do a good job, you should be proud that you do & this wasn't meant for you.

[tech7021]

...... So, I plan to pick up a 2 inch galv st post .....

It's a 1-7/8" post not 2", I hope you see this before you buy it.

[fjcastro]

I just ordered the upgrade to the HR 20. Here is the explanation I was given about the "lease". [This may not be the truth, it was just what I was told]

The box actually costs $799 retail. However, because D* is so nice, they decided to make us pay an upfront payment of $99 - which they refer to as a "lease" [which seems counterintuitive]. Because it is only a lease, when the service is up or you no longer want to be a D* customer, you must return the box to D*.

I will still pay the extra for the protection plan because I don't want to deal with "service call" charges.

[djshawn]

I'm sorry, but charging $300 for a unit that you don't own, and have to pay to get replaced is absurd.

Exactly. I'm not a fan of lawyers or frivolous lawsuits but is anyone on this site actually a lawyer? It's bad enough that we have to pay $300 to beta test the HR20 for them....now we get screwed if THEIR product that we LEASE goes south?

I think if the national media outlets (outside of tech websites and message boards caught wind of the $300 "lease" debacle and the hard facts about us beta testing their product D* would have to step back and re-evaluate the situation.

I HATED the complete lack of customer service I received from cable after having an account for 12 years. I've been with D* for about 2 months now and I'm starting to feel the same. Why is it so damn hard to treat customers like fellow human beings, not gouge them areound every turn and not make them jump through hoops to simply get the service we signed on for?

[veryoldschool]

It's a 1-7/8" post not 2", I hope you see this before you buy it.
The old 3LNB was 1 5/8".
My AT9 is a full 2".
I just checked before this post.
Your wife may say size doesn't matters but in this case it does. :)

[veryoldschool]

Exactly. I'm not a fan of lawyers or frivolous lawsuits but is anyone on this site actually a lawyer? It's bad enough that we have to pay $300 to beta test the HR20 for them....now we get screwed if THEIR product that we LEASE goes south?
Where is it posted, written that if the HR-20 [leased] goes "south" we have to pay for it? While I would agree with those that paid [anything] for "non owned" unit, that they feel screwed. I felt that way before, so I didn't pay for my lease, since it's a lease. Duh!.
What is this big roar over "what if"? So far D* has been replacing units with "reconditioned" for free [or shipping]. If you want to make some noise: what about the bad replacement units? This is where we're getting screwed IMO.

[bwaldron]

The old 3LNB was 1 5/8".
My AT9 is a full 2".

That is correct.

[bwaldron]

So far D* has been replacing units with "reconditioned" for free [or shipping]. If you want to make some noise: what about the bad replacement units? This is where we're getting screwed IMO.

Yes, if people are getting (as reported) "reconditioned" units with a previous customer's programming still on the disk, that is an issue worth getting upset about.

[veryoldschool]

Yes, if people are getting (as reported) "reconditioned" units with a previous customer's programming still on the disk, that is an issue worth getting upset about.
I could live with "just" doing a "reset everything", but it's the dead second tuners that seem to be the issue these days. Then after two or three of these a op got good tuners only to find the card reader was bad.
This is today's pet peeve.

[bwaldron]

I could live with "just" doing a "reset everything", but it's the dead second tuners that seem to be the issue these days. Then after two or three of these a op got good tuners only to find the card reader was bad.
This is today's pet peeve.

Yes, sounds like they're just basically re-shipping out returned units to customers. Not good at all.

[KurtV]

I am going to stop to except I have to ask, where in the heck did you buy your Mountaineer?

2004 Mecury Mountaineer Bumper to Bumper Warranty (months/miles) 36/36,000

2003 Mercury Mountaineer Bumper to Bumper 36/36,000

Major Components 36/36,000

Rust Through 60/unlimited

Roadside Assistance 36/36,000

For the record the avatar isnt me.......... I am much better looking lol!
:beatdeadhorse:
You're right, the Mountaineer warranty was 36/36. I guess I was remembering that the damned thing was out of warranty less than two years after buying it because I was over the mileage limit.

[rcoleman111]

After the 90 day warranty is out you can get another leased receiver for shipping and handling of $19.95 with the protection plan it is free. Hope this helps.

So the $19.95 shipping cost is the only charge for replacing the DVR after 90 days? Any idea what kind of charges would be involved if there was a problem with the dish or cabling? I considered taking the protection plan when I had my dish upgraded, but I decided against it. I don't mind paying a reasonable charge if something needs to be fixed, but I'm trying to decide if the protection plan is worth it. I really haven't had many equipment problems in the 7+ years I've had satellite TV.

[JLucPicard]

Anything beyond the receiver would be $70 for a service call. I'm not sure what exactly that covers. If you need some bad cable replaced, that would probably be no extra charge, but if it was a bad LNB or something, they might charge for that? I really don't know what your $70 buys, but that's the cost of a service call without the protection plan.

[bonscott87]

Cost is why I don't pay for the protection plan. Since I can buy a new dish or replacement LNB and replace it myself it makes no sense. Protection plan is only usefull for people that don't know how to replace and fix the stuff themselves. It's basically $70 for a year. I can almost replace a dish for that price.

And you can think of the protection plan as paying for a service call a year. If you think you will need more then one service call a year then the protection plan is worth it for you. Otherwise you're better off just paying for that service call. Think insurance here. Will the cost of paying for the insured thing yourself be more or less then the insurance itself? Decide off that.

[veryoldschool]

Oh but think of the piece of mind... [this is my insurance pitch]. If I can't fix it, I don't need it.

[mrhoads]

I have been a DirecTV customer since 1998. I have been trying to get 2 HD DVR's since November. They have not shown up for three installations. They said they don't have any hardware. Yes, I did pay for them in early December when they called me and said my HD DVR was in and would be scheduled in 72 hrs. Three installations and many phone calls and emails later I now have a installation date of February 13.

I have the protection plan and that has worked well for me. My 10-250 went out and I got a replacement the next day. They gave me 30 days to return the defective one and included a prepaid label. Forget about the term "Lease" its not a lease its just a cheaper price so their retail customers don't get as upset as their "A" customers.

I also put in a call to Dish today to see what they have.