annoying line at top of SD on HBOH

[shendley]

I've been trying to diagnose an issue I have, in particular (it appears), with SD content broadcast on HBOH(D). When they go to promos, coming attractions and the like, HBOH always goes back to SD. And at the top of the picture (on my tv at least) there is an annoying line of black and white streaks, most of which annoyingly alternate back and forth very quickly between black and white. I've noticed that this only occurs when I'm using an HDMI connection. It's not there with component. And I think I've noticed it on other HD stations when they broadcast an SD picture (but I can't find it anywhere other than HBOH now).

So my question is whether anyone else is seeing this? Could this be a problem my tv is having with overscan when receiving input through HDMI? If so, then why would it be so much more apparent on HBOH than other HD channels? My panasonic is under an extended warranty and I've been approved to call and schedule a visit from a technician tomorrow. If this is a problem with HBOH that others are seeing, I'll not call for the visit. So, help me out here. Either a simple "No, I've never seen it" or Yes, I've seen it" would help a lot. But, of course, if anyone has any insight as to what's going on here, that would be even more appreciated.

In advance, thanks!

[lkatzeff]

I've been trying to diagnose an issue I have, in particular (it appears), with SD content broadcast on HBOH(D). When they go to promos, coming attractions and the like, HBOH always goes back to SD. And at the top of the picture (on my tv at least) there is an annoying line of black and white streaks, most of which annoyingly alternate back and forth very quickly between black and white. I've noticed that this only occurs when I'm using an HDMI connection. It's not there with component. And I think I've noticed it on other HD stations when they broadcast an SD picture (but I can't find it anywhere other than HBOH now).

So my question is whether anyone else is seeing this? Could this be a problem my tv is having with overscan when receiving input through HDMI? If so, then why would it be so much more apparent on HBOH than other HD channels? My panasonic is under an extended warranty and I've been approved to call and schedule a visit from a technician tomorrow. If this is a problem with HBOH that others are seeing, I'll not call for the visit. So, help me out here. Either a simple "No, I've never seen it" or Yes, I've seen it" would help a lot. But, of course, if anyone has any insight as to what's going on here, that would be even more appreciated.

In advance, thanks!

Try changing the format to 480P and see if this line is still there. I have seen these lines on SD pictures while while HD content at 1080i

[Sah]

If your TV allows it, you might also try adjusting the position of the viewing area/display on your TV. We have a Philips plasma that allows us to do this with the arrow keys on the remote. We have to adjust the horizontal position sometimes when watching PBS in SD.

[shendley]

Thanks for the replies guys! The line isn't there on 480p. Actually, I think it may be a bit less pronounced on 720p as well (though still there). And I wish my Panasonic had a feature to adjust the picture up just a tad. I called their "concierge" service and the guy I talked to didn't have a clue. I figure it's got to be something of an "overscan" issue (assuming I'm using that word correctly here). When I watch the HDNET Test Pattern in 1080i, the top of the screen goes all the way to the line that would be numbered zero.

But if others are seeing this, it sounds like it may not be just my tv after all. Are you seeing it mainly on HBOH or does it appear on other stations as well?

[lkatzeff]

Thanks for the replies guys! The line isn't there on 480p. Actually, I think it may be a bit less pronounced on 720p as well (though still there). And I wish my Panasonic had a feature to adjust the picture up just a tad. I called their "concierge" service and the guy I talked to didn't have a clue. I figure it's got to be something of an "overscan" issue (assuming I'm using that word correctly here). When I watch the HDNET Test Pattern in 1080i, the top of the screen goes all the way to the line that would be numbered zero.

But if others are seeing this, it sounds like it may not be just my tv after all. Are you seeing it mainly on HBOH or does it appear on other stations as well?

I see it on other stations also

[azarby]

I've been trying to diagnose an issue I have, in particular (it appears), with SD content broadcast on HBOH(D). When they go to promos, coming attractions and the like, HBOH always goes back to SD. And at the top of the picture (on my tv at least) there is an annoying line of black and white streaks, most of which annoyingly alternate back and forth very quickly between black and white. I've noticed that this only occurs when I'm using an HDMI connection. It's not there with component. And I think I've noticed it on other HD stations when they broadcast an SD picture (but I can't find it anywhere other than HBOH now).

So my question is whether anyone else is seeing this? Could this be a problem my tv is having with overscan when receiving input through HDMI? If so, then why would it be so much more apparent on HBOH than other HD channels? My panasonic is under an extended warranty and I've been approved to call and schedule a visit from a technician tomorrow. If this is a problem with HBOH that others are seeing, I'll not call for the visit. So, help me out here. Either a simple "No, I've never seen it" or Yes, I've seen it" would help a lot. But, of course, if anyone has any insight as to what's going on here, that would be even more appreciated.

In advance, thanks!


I have a similar problem with Phoenix channel 15 on Mpeg 4 and OTA. It doesn't matter what resolution (720P , 1080i. 480P), and it doesn't matter if native is on or off, as it is the same on all of them. This is intermittent and only affects the Panasonic Plasma that is connected via an HDMI switch. I would say the problem occurs less than 2% of the time. No other channels exhibit this problem and the HR10-250, connected through the same switch is fine. This was also a problem on the original HR20 that is connected to the Panasonic. It appears that the HR20 has a video stream decoding problem.

Bob

[shendley]

Curious, isn't it? I can't figure out what's up with this thing. But I'm supposed to have a technician come out and look at my tv sometime in the next few days. If s/he has any insights, I'll be sure to post them, but right now I'm at a loss. I thought it was just the HDMI connection to the Panasonic, but the problem appears to float from channel to channel depending on where you are. Curious.

[larryl]

I've seen it both through the HR20 and with my TV connected directly to the OTA. The instruction manual for my Sharp Aquos specifically mentions this situation and that you might see it in the Dot-by-Dot resolution setting. Their only fix to change to a crop view that eliminates the line.

[bwaldron]

Curious, isn't it? I can't figure out what's up with this thing. But I'm supposed to have a technician come out and look at my tv sometime in the next few days. If s/he has any insights, I'll be sure to post them, but right now I'm at a loss. I thought it was just the HDMI connection to the Panasonic, but the problem appears to float from channel to channel depending on where you are. Curious.

I note from your sig that you have a Panny plasma. One of my two plasmas is that exact model. I had the same problem as you when I had my HR10-250 connected via HDMI. It is an underscan issue with the TV--unfortunately, the Panny consumer plasmas don't allow the user to modify over/underscan via the menus...not even the service menus, I don't think. I found that when I switched from HDMI to component, the issue was resolved.

Strange thing is that I now have that same TV hooked up to an HR20 via HDMI, and it's fine (so there's a slight difference in what the HR10 and HR20 are sending). I also have a newer Panny plasma hooked up via HDMI to a second HR20, and it's fine also.

Hopefully a tech can help you, but I would definitely try switching to component and see if that helps. You won't notice any difference in PQ, at least in my experience.

[oldschoolecw]

My TV also does the same Morse code type of line, the reason our TV’s are doing it is because they are over scanning the picture which can be a good thing if you think about it. It means your getting a little more then most TV’s can handle which is good in the sense, you know you are getting no picture cut offs.

[jbrasure]

That garbage at the top is actually part of the broadcast. You need to adjust your TV to do a little bit of overscan. In other words, it needs to zoom in a little so that the edge pixels are cropped away. Just dig through your TV view settings and see if there is a way to slightly zoom in.

[bwaldron]

My TV also does the same Morse code type of line, the reason our TV’s are doing it is because they are over scanning the picture which can be a good thing if you think about it. It means your getting a little more then most TV’s can handle which is good in the sense, you know you are getting no picture cut offs.

Yes, limited overscan is more good than bad. However, it is too bad that many HDTV's don't allow the user to adjust it if they so desire.

[Ed Campbell]

Strange thing is that I now have that same TV hooked up to an HR20 via HDMI, and it's fine (so there's a slight difference in what the HR10 and HR20 are sending). I also have a newer Panny plasma hooked up via HDMI to a second HR20, and it's fine also.

I think there is a difference. I dialed my Sammy DLP in pretty well when I got a couple years ago > then using the HR10. The first thing I noticed when I got the HR20 was that the image seemed low on the screen -- though it took me weeks to get irked enough to go look up how to access the service menu, etc.

I raised the picture about 10 pixels and it's right on the button, now.

[bwaldron]

I think there is a difference. I dialed my Sammy DLP in pretty well when I got a couple years ago > then using the HR10. The first thing I noticed when I got the HR20 was that the image seemed low on the screen -- though it took me weeks to get irked enough to go look up how to access the service menu, etc.

I raised the picture about 10 pixels and it's right on the button, now.

Interesting. Good that you could adjust the set to eliminate the problem -- on the Panny plasmas, even the "dreaded" service menu doesn't appear to allow the adjustment.

[oldschoolecw]

Interesting. Good that you could adjust the set to eliminate the problem -- on the Panny plasmas, even the "dreaded" service menu doesn't appear to allow the adjustment.

Neither does my Westy

[incandenza]

I have the same issue with my TV (Olevia 332H). Actually one way to get rid of it on mine is to tune to the non-HD version of the channel (the one that's actually in 480i, not one that's upscaled to 720p or 1080i). In that case the TV seems to know to adjust the overscan accordingly.

[shendley]

I note from your sig that you have a Panny plasma. One of my two plasmas is that exact model. I had the same problem as you when I had my HR10-250 connected via HDMI. It is an underscan issue with the TV--unfortunately, the Panny consumer plasmas don't allow the user to modify over/underscan via the menus...not even the service menus, I don't think. I found that when I switched from HDMI to component, the issue was resolved.

Strange thing is that I now have that same TV hooked up to an HR20 via HDMI, and it's fine (so there's a slight difference in what the HR10 and HR20 are sending). I also have a newer Panny plasma hooked up via HDMI to a second HR20, and it's fine also.

Hopefully a tech can help you, but I would definitely try switching to component and see if that helps. You won't notice any difference in PQ, at least in my experience.


I haven't noticed any real difference between the HR10 and HR20 (I've got an HR10 as a "backup" HDDVR) myself, but you're right about it not being a problem with component connections. I should just switch my connections, but it ticks me off that you can't just adjust the picture a few pixels up to compensate as you can with some other tvs. I figured when I called the Panasonic Plasma "Concierge" service, they would give me some kind of backdoor code to do the adjustment myself since it shouldn't be rocket science to do it.

But am I right in supposing that this largely depends on the kind of signal being sent to the receiver? Some HD broadcasts seem to have this line at the top when they're broadcasting an SD picture in HD while others don't?

[bwaldron]

But am I right in supposing that this largely depends on the kind of signal being sent to the receiver? Some HD broadcasts seem to have this line at the top when they're broadcasting an SD picture in HD while others don't?

Yes, you are right in that supposition.

You might also find that, in addition to HDMI vs. component, your TV has slightly different overscan on 720p vs. 1080i. Mine do.

[smb3d]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what the black and white lines actually are. It is the closed captioning information stored in a part of the frame that is usually out of the safe area on CRT televisions.

[jbrasure]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned what the black and white lines actually are. It is the closed captioning information stored in a part of the frame that is usually out of the safe area on CRT televisions.

That's cool. Didn't know that.

[shendley]

Yes, you are right in that supposition.

You might also find that, in addition to HDMI vs. component, your TV has slightly different overscan on 720p vs. 1080i. Mine do.

I've checked the HDNet Test Pattern in both 720p and 1080i and in 720p the top line you can read is # 2. In 1080i, the top line is the unnumbered line above that which would be #0. So, yes I've noticed the different overscans too.

And the point about the line containing info about closed captioning is really interesting. Would that mean that SD pictures on HD channels which don't show the line don't have closed captioning info? That doesn't seem right. Maybe it's about where they place the information in the signal?

[tstarn]

I've been trying to diagnose an issue I have, in particular (it appears), with SD content broadcast on HBOH(D). When they go to promos, coming attractions and the like, HBOH always goes back to SD. And at the top of the picture (on my tv at least) there is an annoying line of black and white streaks, most of which annoyingly alternate back and forth very quickly between black and white. I've noticed that this only occurs when I'm using an HDMI connection. It's not there with component. And I think I've noticed it on other HD stations when they broadcast an SD picture (but I can't find it anywhere other than HBOH now).

So my question is whether anyone else is seeing this? Could this be a problem my tv is having with overscan when receiving input through HDMI? If so, then why would it be so much more apparent on HBOH than other HD channels? My panasonic is under an extended warranty and I've been approved to call and schedule a visit from a technician tomorrow. If this is a problem with HBOH that others are seeing, I'll not call for the visit. So, help me out here. Either a simple "No, I've never seen it" or Yes, I've seen it" would help a lot. But, of course, if anyone has any insight as to what's going on here, that would be even more appreciated.

In advance, thanks!

THis might help, might not. My Hitachi plasma has two widescreen settings, labeled 16 x 9 1 and 16 x 9 2. The latter is a "true" HD representation in that is eliminates any overscan, while the former setting, which still looks good, incrementally zooms the picture out a little.

When an HD channel changes to an SD picture (bars or that square in the middle, as you will see on HBO-HD), if I have the Hitachi set to 16 x 9 2, there is a squiggly little line across the top of the screen. If I adjust the aspect ratio to 16 x 9 1, it dieappears.

Could you Panny have that type of dual mode settings for HD 16 x 9 signals?

[tstarn]

Yes, limited overscan is more good than bad. However, it is too bad that many HDTV's don't allow the user to adjust it if they so desire.

The Hitachi Ultravision does. See my post. I didn't read yours first.

[shendley]

THis might help, might not. My Hitachi plasma has two widescreen settings, labeled 16 x 9 1 and 16 x 9 2. The latter is a "true" HD representation in that is eliminates any overscan, while the former setting, which still looks good, incrementally zooms the picture out a little.

When an HD channel changes to an SD picture (bars or that square in the middle, as you will see on HBO-HD), if I have the Hitachi set to 16 x 9 2, there is a squiggly little line across the top of the screen. If I adjust the aspect ratio to 16 x 9 1, it dieappears.

Could you Panny have that type of dual mode settings for HD 16 x 9 signals?

Unfortunately, the Panny is missing that option; which is really a bit of an unnecessary limitation on what is otherwise a very good television.