Dual Live Buffers: How you would like to see them implemented?

[SockMonkey]

As a Tivo user for a few years, when the HR20 came out I was disappointed to learn that dual live buffers (DLBs) did not exist on it. However, I still leased an HR20 and to this day I really do hope that DLBs are enabled some day.

When I first started using the HR20, and I realized that the single live buffer was 90 minutes in length, I was pleasantly surprised. The first question that came to mind was... if they enable DLBs, will the length of the buffer have to drop.

Since the live buffer is actually being recorded to disk, if two 90-minute live buffers were enabled, that's a significant chunk of extra disk space that would be unavailable for recordings. On my HDVR2 and HR10s, the DLBs were 30 minutes each. I always thought it would be nice to have at least 60 minutes on those, but it didn't concern me that much.

So what would be your ideal implementation of DLBs? I'm including a poll in this to see what you all think.

Options:
- Two 30-minute buffers is enough for me.
- Two 45-minute buffers is good enough and won't use more recording space.
- Two 90-minute buffers. I don't want to give up the 90 minutes I'm used to.
- Two 120-minute buffers! Who cares about recording space?
- I do not want DLBs enabled on my HR20.
- Other (explain in a reply to this thread)

My vote is:
Two 90-minute buffers. I don't want to give up the 90 minutes I'm used to.

I've become accustomed to the 90 minutes and would prefer not to have to see them shortened. However, I would prefer to lose some buffer length to get DLBs.

I look to reading your responses. And, I admit, there's somewhat of a dual agenda here... basically, since we know that D* is reading these forums... this may be helpful to them in making a decision on DLBs if they're ever implemented.

Bob

P.S. Please... let's not turn this into any type of anti-DLB vs. pro-DLB debate. That's not the intention.

[Sharkie_Fan]

I voted for the two 45 minutes, though, truth be told, it matters not to me one way or another. If they were there, I would use them (particularly if there's a hockey game on Thursday nights, when the family has like 47 shows recording all night long). If they don't add them, it's not the end of the world for me.

Two 45 minutes buffers would be nice though.

[BubblePuppy]

I will go with Two 90-minute buffers.
I doubt that disc space would be effected much.

[Tom Robertson]

I voted two-90's but two-60's would be fine too :)

Cheers,
Tom

[Nolzman]

I voted two-90's but two-60's would be fine too :)

Cheers,
Tom

My feelings also. 60 minutes would be a good compromise between tht 30 and 90 minutes crowds. Would have preferred the poll replace the 45 minute choice with 60 minutes.

[cygnusloop]

I voted two 90's, but once you do the hard part and implement dual buffers, wouldn't it be a simple matter to make the buffer size user selectable? It always bothered me that I couldn't do that with my Dtivo. It just feels like an oversight. JMO.

[SockMonkey]

My feelings also. 60 minutes would be a good compromise between tht 30 and 90 minutes crowds. Would have preferred the poll replace the 45 minute choice with 60 minutes.
You know, I meant to have that 60 minute option in there as well. Oversight on my part. Sorry.

Anyone know if you non-moderators can update a poll once it's started? I also like the suggestion that the length be user selectable.

Bob

[kocuba]

I said 2 - 90 Minute Buffers. But I would be just as happy with 60 minute ones. I like the half hour increments. I think 45 is just a little too short.

[jheda]

i said 2 30s were fine...........its all about flipping between periods, between half innings

[hdtvfan0001]

DLB's negates the whole sales pitch to the wife on why I got 2 HR20's.... :D

My answer to the Poll Question - Only on someone else's machine ..but that's not an answer option. :lol:

[feschiver]

before i vote is the dlb memory or disk:confused:

[jheda]

DLB's negates the whole sales pitch to the wife on why I got 2 HR20's.... :D

My answer to the Poll Question - Only on someone else's machine ..but that's not an answer option. :lol:

you are too funny.........the things we dont tell our wives only scares me to the extent what they are not telling us...

[cbearnm]

How about software selectable bufffer lengths?

That parameter is already hard coded in the software, adding another option within the Setup Menu for buffer length would be easy. Tying that value to where the hard coded length is, would not be rocket science.

This option give the best of all worlds. If you do not want DLBs, set them to 0. I voted for 45 minutes, but this method will allow those that want 90 minutes to do so as well. Or even as little as 5 minutes. (Not sure how useful that is, but hey, you should be able to do it.)

To me, it's such a simple solution, that it might be too obvious.

[SockMonkey]

before i vote is the dlb memory or disk:confused:
I don't know for sure, but I assume the current buffer is disk and therefore future DLBs would also be disk. When my HR20 is not recording, I still hear disk activity so I'm pretty sure the buffer is being writen to disk.

Bob

[jaywdetroit]

I voted other.

Here is why: I think it would be nice if you could choose how much to give each buffer. I assume that it will be easiest to maintain a total of 90 minutes for both.

So let us choose. one that does 30, the other does 60. Or 15 and 75, etc.

[HarleyD]

How would I like to seem them implemented?

QUICKLY! ;)

[hdtvfan0001]

you are too funny.........the things we dont tell our wives only scares me to the extent what they are not telling us...
Actually...she doesn't want to know too much about how these things work...just use them. :D

[namja]

I voted two 30-minutes, and I really, REALLY want dual buffers. But ... more than that though is that I want the one buffer that I already have to work better. Too often, I can't go back and watch because of the system freezing and a host of other problems. Okay, we have tons of threads for issues so I'll stop.

Anyway, back to DLB, I'd like two 30-minute buffers when viewing live, but if something is paused, then it should be buffering 90 minutes.

[jgrade]

Rich mans' 90 min DLB: 2 x HR20 and TV with PIP! :p

Seriously, I would like to see DLB at 90 minutes each, but I really don't find myself missing that feature too much. As a quasi programmer, I don;t see this being too much trouble to implement (granted I don't know the first thing about the HR20 programming). I mean it already has the ability to record 2 streams at the same time, so what is the difference? Both streams are in "record" mode without saving the data. Poof BLD!

[Tom Robertson]

Rich mans' 90 min DLB: 2 x HR20 and TV with PIP! :p

Seriously, I would like to see DLB at 90 minutes each, but I really don't find myself missing that feature too much. As a quasi programmer, I don;t see this being too much trouble to implement (granted I don't know the first thing about the HR20 programming). I mean it already has the ability to record 2 streams at the same time, so what is the difference? Both streams are in "record" mode without saving the data. Poof BLD!

As I've posted in the past, real men use two HR10s with PIP and have 4 tuners going. :)

I'm just waiting for HMC with 4 tuners (more?), PIP builtin, etc. so I can have two of them and have PIP, PIP, PIP, PIP :) Quad view, make my own mix.

Cheers all,
Tom

[hdtvfan0001]

I'm just waiting for HMC with 4 tuners (more?), PIP builtin, etc. so I can have two of them and have PIP, PIP, PIP, PIP :) Quad view, make my own mix.
My head is spinning.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[HarleyD]

I'm just waiting for HMC with 4 tuners (more?), PIP builtin, etc. so I can have two of them and have PIP, PIP, PIP, PIP :) Quad view, make my own mix.
http://www.ferhiga.com/progre/portadas/pink-floyd-ummagumma.jpg

[jgrade]

OFF TOPIC:

Now thats what I'm talking about.!:icon_bb: Looks like the UK cover.

Anyway, I couldn't pass up an opportunity to praise Pink Floyd.

[jaywdetroit]

We were watching TV
Watching TV
She wore a white bandanna that said
Freedom now
She thought the Great Wall of China
Would come tumbling down
She was a student
Her father was an engineer

[HarleyD]

We were watching TV
Watching TV
She wore a white bandanna that said
Freedom now
She thought the Great Wall of China
Would come tumbling down
She was a student
Her father was an engineerNice Roger Waters reference, Jay.

I'm Amused to Death.

http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/images/RW-AtD.jpg

[jaywdetroit]

Nice Roger Waters reference, Jay.

:smoking:

[SockMonkey]

:backtotop
Please...

[chrisexv6]

I voted "other".....just to be different!!! jk.....

Dual 60 minute buffers would be perfect for my use, I think. I usually use the live buffers on my Tivo to watch complete programs if I havent recorded them and was late to get to the TV. Works great for 30 minute programs, but obviously not for 60 (well, I cant get there past the half way point).

60 minute would allow the other common program length to be buffered, so I can take my lazy (and I do mean LAZY) old time to get to the TV.

90 minutes might be overkill, although I suppose better for people with movie channels who might want to buffer a 1.5 hour long movie.

-Chris

[Mike Bertelson]

I voted for 45min. That should give plenty of time and use too about the same disk space.

mike

[Just J]

A pair of .45's for me, please. :D

Seriously, any longer than that and I don't mind hitting record on one of the channels I'm buffering. (So I could live with 30 minutes, too.) As long as we get it, the amount is way down my list of concerns.

http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-DLB.gif

http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-Please.gif

[DblD_Indy]

A pair of .45's for me, please. :D

Seriously, any longer than that and I don't mind hitting record on one of the channels I'm buffering. (So I could live with 30 minutes, too.) As long as we get it, the amount is way down my list of concerns.

http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-DLB.gif

http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-Please.gif

I am right with J! Just DO IT!

NASCAR starts tomorrow night and hot pass next week, I would love to be able to pause the race and switch over to a driver channel and back.

Having NASCAR on 5 channels is kind of a waste if you can not switch at ease between them with out loosing your spot.

So ...http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-Please.gif Give us back our DLB!

[richlife]

A pair of .45's for me, please. :D

Seriously, any longer than that and I don't mind hitting record on one of the channels I'm buffering. (So I could live with 30 minutes, too.) As long as we get it, the amount is way down my list of concerns.

http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-DLB.gif

http://www.justj.net/misc/smilies/S-A-Please.gif

Good answer, JustJ. I voted two 45's because I can just live with the recording space available now. I think too many of you are just watching and recording mostly SD and haven't thought about the space requirements to record exclusively HD. I'm recording and watching about 90% HD and find that I'm constantly concerned about running out of record space. 90 minute buffer are just wasted -- it's seldom I really want to go back that far. 30 minute would do, but I like the idea of 45 (maybe 60, but back to the space concern). 90 I personally can't see as needed.

Edit: Oops, forgot to add that you guys are turning me on with the Floyd references. I've always regarded Pink Floyd as the reincarnation of Beethoven. There are many great bands, but there will never be another Pink Floyd!

[Que]

How would I like to seem them implemented?

QUICKLY! ;)



:up: :up: :up: :biggthump :allthumbs :lovenote: :righton:

wow tons of smilies...

[Mike P]

I voted for Dual 45 minute buffers. I to had a Tivo Series 2 DVR & I totally miss the Dual Buffers that are not on my HR 20.

I've even thought about dropping $700 on a Tivo Series 3, just to get that SWEET option back.

Is it possible that we could get Dual Buffers back via a software update? Please advise someone?

[sheepishlion]

I voted other, because it would be nice to select the time lengths on each one, and even have the option to have it disabled for those who do not want it.

[TDLA]

I would prefer 2 60 minute buffers, but that wasn't a selection.

[marty45714]

Other: I don't give a damn whether it's there or not. If it is, great, it's a good feature. If it's not there, I don't miss it the way things are now.

[sunking]

I'm sorry, but this is about the silliest poll I've ever seen. It's pretty obvious that if it's implemented it will have the same buffer size as you currently have with a single. The disk space as a whole is neglegible, if 90 minutes is what they said was good for 1, then it would be the same for two.

Other than some sort of IP problem with tivo I can't imagine why it's not there already. If you can have a single buffer and record a show on the other tuner and switch between the two moving to dual buffers is a pretty no brainer.

And this is really a prerequisite to even considering supporting PIP. (which I think is pretty much the longest shot going).

[SuperTech1]

I voted for two 45's, but really which ever is the easiest for D* to implement would be my choice. They could then change it later if necessary. Only a DVR programmer would know for sure. How about dual hard drives (one eSATA) with DLB's on each?:D

[Mike P]

As the title says: Has anyone called Direct TV customer service, and asked if we will be getting Dual Buffers via a software download on the HR 20's?

I would love to have this feature. I miss having it like I did on my Tivo Series 2 DVR.

:confused:

[Coffey77]

I'm sorry, but this is about the silliest poll I've ever seen. It's pretty obvious that if it's implemented it will have the same buffer size as you currently have with a single.

What if you have 95% of your HDD full? I don't think a dual 90 minute buffer would fit on the remaining 5%. They'd have to re tune the available space to allow for the buffers which you'd then get less Hard Storage space. I only have 30 minutes with my T60 Tivo and am more than pleased with that. If I want longer, I can record. This keeps the HDD usage down and gives you more space on your HDD which is what it seems most people want anyway - From what I've seen.

I think it's a good poll and considers a bit of thought as to what you'd like to the ratio of what would really work. Not everyone can go out and buy a 500gig esata drive.

[Woody_1]

I'd be happy with a 15 min buffer, if only the fast forward feature worked like it did with Tivo.
It keeps getting better with software updates, and I understand that the jump back was patented, but I miss that a whole lot more than dual buffers!

[dallascontractor]

Two 45's would be great. Did not have that on my Tivo.

[SockMonkey]

As the title says: Has anyone called Direct TV customer service, and asked if we will be getting Dual Buffers via a software download on the HR 20's?

I would love to have this feature. I miss having it like I did on my Tivo Series 2 DVR.

:confused:
No one that I know of has called, but that would do as much good as if I walked outside and asked the neighbors dog. Most CSRs wouldn't have a clue what the heck "Dual Live Buffers" are if you asked them.

With that said, D* techs are reading this forum. We have information that DLBs are on a list for consideration to be added to a future release. But, they are not a guaranteed enhancement for the HR20. We can only hope.

Bob

[Drewg5]

Two 90-minute buffers. I don't want to give up the 90 minutes I'm used to.

That or ONLY the SINGLE 90 min buffer! Two short (less than 90 min) is a waist of time and space on my DVR.

DLB = Dont Look Back! its NOT TiVo

[CliffV]

I voted "Don't want 2 live buffers", but what the vote should have been is "Don't care whether 2 live buffers are enabled or not". I never, ever watch live TV. Isn't that what DVR's are all about. :)

[BubblePuppy]

As the title says: Has anyone called Direct TV customer service, and asked if we will be getting Dual Buffers via a software download on the HR 20's?

I would love to have this feature. I miss having it like I did on my Tivo Series 2 DVR.

:confused:
I have and all I get is "they" are working on it.:confused:

[jaywdetroit]

As the title says: Has anyone called Direct TV customer service, and asked if we will be getting Dual Buffers via a software download on the HR 20's?

I would love to have this feature. I miss having it like I did on my Tivo Series 2 DVR.

:confused:

When of the selling points for me when I signed up for my HR20 WAY back in September, was the retention rep who assured me that there was internal buzz at D* about the lack of dlbs on the box. And that it would be addressed in the future. He made no promises, but he did sound pretty sure of himself.

[MartyS]

I'd like to see 2 60 minute buffers. That way, for the most part, or most of the time, 2 complete 1 hour shows could be in the buffer... Just my thoughts...

[waynenm]

Soon, please. The simple convenience of going between 2 channels and not missing something should have been included in the first place. Whatever minimum length will work is just fine.

[nasadave]

I vote other...here is my wild idea...

Make the DLB configurable.

Let me pick how much disk space to allocate to the DLBs...those that want 5 hours can get it, and those that want 15 min can get it also. It would not be difficult to do this, and they could make it default to 30 minutes or something for those that don't care.

Instead of trying to copy the Tivo lets do one better! :D

Maybe even make it just use whatever space is available, and fill'er up for hours... if we then decide to record something, the space can be reclaimed, and treated like the old Tivo suggestions recordings were.

[jheda]

As the title says: Has anyone called Direct TV customer service, and asked if we will be getting Dual Buffers via a software download on the HR 20's?

I would love to have this feature. I miss having it like I did on my Tivo Series 2 DVR.

:confused:

Welcome

pls vote on the poll of features desired ... ill try to find the link for you....or jay, sockmonkey help me; we want to keep the DLB buzz going!////

Called the HR20 Wish List Survey

[Jotas]

30 or 45 mins would suffice as long as I could flip back and forth like I can with my HR10-250.

[DonCorleone]

Not to be a naysayer here, but what's the big deal about DLB? I mean, you just have to hit record on the 2 channels and that's esentially DLB, right? I don't know...of all the things I want them focusing on, it's not DLB.

[CliffV]

I vote other...here is my wild idea...

Make the DLB configurable.

Let me pick how much disk space to allocate to the DLBs.

Actually, I'd hate to see yet another thing to configure. How about this? Always support a 30 minute buffer. But if there is additional hard drive space, use more up to some maximum (like an hour per channel).

Of course, that might not help folks who keep their HD full.

[SockMonkey]

Not to be a naysayer here, but what's the big deal about DLB? I mean, you just have to hit record on the 2 channels and that's esentially DLB, right? I don't know...of all the things I want them focusing on, it's not DLB.

One of the big advantages that I see is that usually with DLBs (at least the way the Tivo boxes worked) if you accidentally changed the channel while watching a show behind real time, you wouldn't lose the buffer and therefore miss part of the show. With the HR20, you will.

I frequently watch TV behind. I have 2 small kids and for that reason, I usually have to pause or rewind to catch what I missed when I had to tend to their needs.

It's always great to be changing a diaper or something and find the 2 year old holding the remote and pressing buttons. Usually I notice this when I hear the audio change and therefore my buffer is already lost. On a Tivo unit, I could just hit "previous" and be right back where I was.

This is just one example of where DLBs come into play. Another is watching two sporting events (football games) at once. You can switch back and forth. I don't want to have to record every show I watch in preparation for wanting to switch back and forth. If I'm desperate, I'll do that... but come on, that's just not the way the buffers were intended to be used. Plus, then I have to keep up with deleting shows I didn't really want to record off of my playlist and be careful not to delete the ones I did want to record and haven't yet watched. Too much work!

Before any of you who don't have small kids tell me to put the remote somewhere where they can't get to it... well, all I have to say is, you don't have small kids... you wouldn't understand. :D

Bob

[HarleyD]

Nope, you've got that wrong, at least on the R10 DirecTivo.

Most of the time if you change channels on a tuner, you are changing the channel on the same tuner and you lose your buffer. Your buffer on the other tuner is retained.

Unless you happen to change channels to what the other tuner is tuned to, or if you press the "live TV button" you will lose your buffer on the program you were watching.

My dogs do that to my R10 all the time by stepping on the remote lying on the couch. It infuriates my wife because she is ususally several minutes behind in the buffer from instant-replaying unitelligible dialogue several times until she figures out what they are saying. Then she loses that chunk of the program when the channel changes.

When that channel gets changed, the buffer on what you were watching goes.

[SockMonkey]

Nope, you've got that wrong, at least on the R10 DirecTivo.
Sorry, you're right... now that I am rethinking that, I am wrong. I have been working on installing Vista on my computer all day long and my brain is fried. Sorry guys.

I guess I was thinking... forget it, I don't know what I was thinking. It's been a while since I've used a Tivo. :eek2:

I still want my DLBs! :D
Bob

[HarleyD]

I've had those days. :lol:

They are the inevitable result of one of seven conditions... Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc.

I still want my DLBs.

[Doug Brott]

Welcome

pls vote on the poll of features desired ... ill try to find the link for you....or jay, sockmonkey help me; we want to keep the DLB buzz going!////

Called the HR20 Wish List Survey

Yes, you can voice your opinion on the HR20 Wish List Survey (http://www.sizethis.com/index.php?module=survey&survey=1)

[jsg712]

Is there a possibility that the live Dual Buffer capability is going to be coming out in an upcoming software update? To me, not having this capability was the biggest disappointment in upgrading to the HR20. I'm hoping that all of this discussion about live Dual Buffers means this capability will soon be included in an update.

[SockMonkey]

Is there a possibility that the live Dual Buffer capability is going to be coming out in an upcoming software update?
Yes, there is a possibility. There's also a possibility that it will never be added. However, if I had to put money on it, I'd bet that we'll see it, but only after the HR20 is a very stable box and all the recording/gui problems are worked out.

Until then, I'm waiting patiently (well, sort of). :lol:

:welcome_s
Bob

[LI-SVT]

I would like a menu option for one single 90min buffer or two 30min buffers. This way I can change it from time to time to suit my viewing needs.

[richlife]

I didn't vote that way (2 45s ideally), but regardless of how it looks, I WANT MY D-L-B!! :icon_da: :beatdeadhorse: :icon_da:

DLB DLB DLB
:joy: :joy: :joy:

(Did you ever notice that those bouncing smilies are saying DLB joy DLB joy DLB joy? :lol: :lol: