It's March 2nd

[DoobieBrother]

...and my R15 still sucks. That is all please carry on. I just knew everyone was waiting for my status report. !rolling

[Earl Bonovich]

Okay...
Thanks for the update...

Any elaboration on why?

[DoobieBrother]

Okay...
Thanks for the update...

Any elaboration on why?

Well, none of it is anything new that I haven't discussed and others have confirmed to have the same problem or annoyance of "missing" features. That is features that we got used to with our previous DirecTV sold product (DirecTiVo), that are not in the "new and improved" DirecTV offering. And I wouldn't mind getting used to the features I (and many others) think it should have if the bugs were fixed.

As for the specifics, I think I've brought them all up before, but here is the letter I sent to DTV yesterday with the ones I could think of off the top of my head when I was writing it.


Thanks for your attempts to call me. Unfortunately, the time of day I’ve been called is when I’m at work. I will attempt to call in, possibly on my way home tonight. In the mean time, here are some of the problems I’ve been having. The sad thing is in what little research I’ve done since having this unit, the things I have a problem with are the very same items many other people are experiencing and have been since the beginning of life on the R15. In short, I feel as though DirecTV sold me on a unit that was stated as working well and locked me into a lovely 2 year contract. Instead I have a unit that even though it’s been out for quite some time, is very buggy and void of features that I was previously provided via DirecTiVo integrated unit. It doesn’t take much research between various forums including DirecTV’s own forum to see that I am far from alone in my feeling. These things need to be fixed already!



1. I was watching a show that I had recorded. It had shown live and was recorded a couple of hours earlier. At the end of the show, I would have expected the unit to prompt for a keep or delete. It didn't. Instead it began playing the next show that was broadcast. This was not a show I chose to record.

After some experimentation, I basically figured out that once you choose to record something, the unit keeps recording that channel until the tuner is needed for something else. At that point, it chops the recording down to the original show (or so it seems). If you leave it on the channel it recorded though, it seems to go right on recording. The shows aren't added to the playlist, though.

I'm guessing this is the reason a poster on dbstalk.com enountered a situation where they had items set to record while on vacation and came back to find issues with filled disk and inability to playback correctly. I also suspect this recording technique is the source of several problems.

The first day we had the unit it was working correctly including DVR functions when the installer left and for the next several hours. About 4 hours after the installer left, it began giving the message “DVR Service Not Activated Message”, whenever you tried to use any DVR based functions. We called in and the CSR made a change from that end and the problem was gone.


The second day we had this unit, I was working out in the garage and my wife called me in with a "look at this." I come in to see the R15 freaking out. It was acting like someone was holding down buttons on the remote. Flipping back and forth between prompts and menus extremely fast. No one was touching the remote. She hit a few buttons on the remote and got it to settle down. It did it once more later in the day.


No dual tuner buffers. You cannot flip between tuners while watching to live shows. In doing a little research, this is something that’s been “Coming Soon” for over a year now. This is a huge deal for me as I got very used to having it with my DirecTiVo.


If you pause live TV and go into something like "Active", when you return, it will be back to real time. It loses the pause.


FF/REW functions are VERY slow to respond. Combine that with the lack of a slight backup feature to make up for human reaction time (like DirecTiVo had) and it is extremely had to stop where you want. The lack precision in this feature makes it a lot less palatable to use.

[DoobieBrother]

Another interesting thing. All posts on DirecTV's forum (http://forums.directv.com) that had a URL reference to the online petition to fix the problems have been deleted. That along with the one from a guy who posted saying that he considered this a legal issue and presented some lengthy logic on what and why he was considering. Now, I fully understand it is their right to do that. And they've left the the other posts that say it's junk. It's just interesting that those went poof in the last day or so.

[DoobieBrother]

Oh, and add to the list of issues "hiccups". That's how my wife described it at least. And after seeing it I'd agree. Essentially when watching TV it will occasionally "hiccup". That is it will have a slight glitch in both audio and video. It's almost like a lost signal on a non-DVR system. My other unit does not do this. It also didn't do it when it was hooked to the same place this new R15 is hooked to. It's not a weather issue. It's obvious the unit is simply a bit flakey.

[wbmccarty]

Censorship! That's detestable! It's a good thing that DTV can't force deletion of posts from this

*** ERROR: Unable to access forum content record ***

[dodge boy]

Well, none of it is anything new that I haven't discussed

WELL, with only 14 posts to dates (as I write this) you obviously couldn't have discussed many problems, unless you just retype a "laundry list" of things you don't like about it, as some problems were fixed, and some are newer..... Have I had problems? YES, it got so bad I threw one R15 in the trash and canceled my service plan and suspended programing when D* refused to replace it. I wet to Time Warner (for 3 weeks) and bought another R15 off Ebay and turned my DirecTv on again (Minus service plan). You want something that sucks, go to TW, their equipment is cool, has nice features (PIP, On Demand just a couple) but their service itself, (or lack there of) sucks.

[JimV]

On Feb 7th some time when I called D* they said they'd have a fix by the end of the month for the issues plaguing the R15.

On Feb 28th, no new release, my wife calls them and they say 'what release?' the only problem with the R15 is that there is some kind of ff problem.

Then they proceed to tell her to reformat it. She, not a techie, does it.

Everything is erased. Have to start over with all of our programming.

Watched one show without glitches that was programmed, now everything else freezes.

So March 2nd, and no update. I agree with Doobie...

[ISWIZ]

1. I was watching a show that I had recorded. It had shown live and was recorded a couple of hours earlier. At the end of the show, I would have expected the unit to prompt for a keep or delete. It didn't. Instead it began playing the next show that was broadcast. This was not a show I chose to record.

After some experimentation, I basically figured out that once you choose to record something, the unit keeps recording that channel until the tuner is needed for something else. At that point, it chops the recording down to the original show (or so it seems). If you leave it on the channel it recorded though, it seems to go right on recording. The shows aren't added to the playlist, though.




What it appears to have happened is a "problem" for you, a "blessing" for others. That is why complaints here are so wide ranging.

Using the example you give, I record a sporting event say 1 to 4 PM. I begin watching the recording at say 3 PM. As I slip commercials, and have nothing else recording at 4 PM, the tuner does not change channels and holds a 90 minute buffer (unlike the other box). So... when I get to the end of the "recording" at 4 PM, the game has gone into overtime. On the other box, I'm upset, I missed the end. On the R15, the "recording" appears to continue because it is still buffering the channel so it "appears" the recording just continues. In fact, if you go back to your list (change the LIVE channel first) and playback the recording, it in fact stops at 4 PM as requested.
Like I said, in my case I'm happy, in yours, your not.

My point, the box works, just different from other boxes.

[jal]

My easy fix for my r15 problems was to replace the r15 with a tivo r10! Now the problems are gone and the features are back!

[White_Horse]

What it appears to have happened is a "problem" for you, a "blessing" for others. That is why complaints here are so wide ranging.

Using the example you give, I record a sporting event say 1 to 4 PM. I begin watching the recording at say 3 PM. As I slip commercials, and have nothing else recording at 4 PM, the tuner does not change channels and holds a 90 minute buffer (unlike the other box). So... when I get to the end of the "recording" at 4 PM, the game has gone into overtime. On the other box, I'm upset, I missed the end. On the R15, the "recording" appears to continue because it is still buffering the channel so it "appears" the recording just continues. In fact, if you go back to your list (change the LIVE channel first) and playback the recording, it in fact stops at 4 PM as requested.
Like I said, in my case I'm happy, in yours, your not.

My point, the box works, just different from other boxes.

Actually, the bigger problem with it working that way (at least how it is now) is if something happens where you have to reboot the box, you completely loose the recording. It's happened to me more than once and is still occuring with this latest software (even though it was detected several releases back)

If you have a show that you recorded and is done recording but it is still in the live buffer, a reboot will loose the recording. It doesn't "completely" save it until it's out of the live buffer, even though you've marked that show to be recorded.

[irmolars]

When everyones 2 year commitment is up and thousands are canceling their service.
Maybe Directv will wake up then!

[JimV]

So the question is whether you can cancel service regardless of commitment because the service is not delivering on what they are saying it is delivering on.

Sort of like a breach in contract by the provider due to failure to provide service advertised?

[irmolars]

So the question is whether you can cancel service regardless of commitment because the service is not delivering on what they are saying it is delivering on.

Sort of like a breach in contract by the provider due to failure to provide service advertised?

They are providing the service as agreed in the commitment.

Providing a reliable DVR isn't in the commitment:uglyhamme

So Directv is :lol: at their customers. :mad:

[wbmccarty]

Providing a reliable DVR isn't in the commitment:uglyhamme
No, the contract is not a negotiated contract. So, ambiguities are interpreted against the drafter, DTV. I presume, in making this point, that the contract doesn't out and out say that the service doesn't have to work. OTOH, if it did say that, the whole contract would fall apart. If anyone who's having trouble wants to get out of the agreement, the door is wide open.

Of course, IANAL.

Cheers,

[JimV]

Well this sums it up:

DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.


You understand that DIRECTV does not guarantee the access to or recording of any particular program, or the length of time any particular recorded program may remain available for your viewing.

(a) Service Interruptions. Service may be interrupted from time to time for a variety of reasons. We are not responsible for any interruptions of Service that occur due to acts of God, power failure or any other cause beyond our reasonable control. However, because we value our customers, for an interruption of a significant length of time that is within our reasonable control, upon your
request we will provide what we reasonably determine to be a fair and equitable adjustment to your account to make up for such Service interruption. THIS WILL BE YOUR SOLE REMEDY AND OUR SOLE DUTY IN SUCH CASES.

[wbmccarty]

Jim, the situation is not quite so straightforward as it seems. Courts regularly deem the terms of non-negotiated contracts to be unconscionable and invalid. For instance, when you park your car, the lot gives you a ticket saying they're not responsible for your car. But, in general, they are responsible. More to the point, do you really imagine that if your R-15 caught fire and burned down your house, DTV would not be responsible because they've said they're not responsible?

A customer who documented repeated calls to the 1-800 number given in the contract would have reasonable basis for terminating the agreement. I'm speaking from a businessman's perspective, rather than that of a lawyer. But, the two aren't that far apart. The bottom line is that a reasonable person having the R-15 problems some of us have would agree that the service is not adequate. The case would, I think, fall under the jurisdiction of a small-claims court. With some luck, the judge would also be a dissatisfied R-15 user. :D

OTOH, the contract is probably effective in preventing the upset customer from suing for breach of contract and demanding huge damages. That case simply won't fly.

[Bobman]

I completly disagree with the parking ticket comparison. I know a couple people that had damages to their car or it was broken into and things were stolen (someone in my immediate family) and what the ticket says is what it was in the outcome. Unless they could prove extreme gross negligance I think it was, then they would have won.

I also know someone that had a coat stolen/misplaced at a coat check in a fancy event and again what was on the ticket was what the outcome.

[wbmccarty]

I don't mean to claim that the outcome is always against the writer of the contract. My point is merely that, if the contract were taken at face value, not even "extreme gross negligence" would matter. I suggest that your use of that phrase demonstrates that you grasp my point. Our disagreement concerns how much weight is given to the contract. You seem to hear me saying that the contract has zero weight. I don't mean to argue that. I mean only that the contract is not, in itself, completely dispositive of the issue.

Another way of stating my point is to say that the contract is not the last word. And, in the case of DTV, the reliability of the service isn't tangential, it's central. So, the contract language is less important, I believe, than in the case of a potential bailment, the legal word used to describe the parking lot and coat check situations. I can cite cases in which a bailment was found to exist and judgment was entered for the plaintiff; that is, the owner of the car or article. I don't mean to say that such will always occur, only that it's possible.

Clearer?

Cheers,

[raott]

Well this sums it up:

DIRECTV PROVIDES YOU THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT AS IS, AND MAKES NO WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. ALL SUCH WARRANTIES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. DIRECTV IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE DIRECTV EQUIPMENT PROVIDED TO YOU. In the event the DIRECTV equipment you have leased from DIRECTV does not operate, contact DIRECTV at 1-800-531-5000.



I haven't broken out the UCC in awhile but I'm pretty sure the warranties must be communicated at the time of the purchase and must be conspicuous or they are not valid.

[wbmccarty]

I haven't broken out the UCC in awhile but I'm pretty sure the warranties must be communicated at the time of the purchase and must be inconspicous or they are not valid.
I'm sure you mean "conspicuous," in which case I agree. Shrink-wrap software licenses are often overturned on exactly that theory of law. However, there seems to be variation from state to state or perhaps from federal district to district. IANAL, so I don't always read every word printed in reference to such cases. But, I've taken on and beaten attorneys in more than one business squabble. :D

There's another angle of attack, in any case, that applies even if you believe DTV wins on legal points. Do you really think DTV is going to take an unhappy customer to court and, in essence, put the qualify of its service on trial? I think not. The cost of the action would outweigh the cost of any possible judgment. And, DTV would have to consider the effects of the related publicity....

So, filing suit would not be a smart... Oops! I see I've made a major mistake. The fact that filing suit would not be a smart move for DTV strikes me as evidence that DTV would be absolutely anxious to get into the courtroom. It's not as though this matter were littered by an abundance of their smart moves so far....


Cheers,

[raott]

I'm sure you mean "conspicuous," in which case I agree.

Cheers,

You are correct, that is what I meant, I just can't spell.