Is this how cable is going to mop up satellite?

[Presence]

Time-Warner Cable recently rolled out a test-pilot version of their latest Navigator software here, apparently one of only three cities testing this stuff. The guide is a real pain in the ass (up to 30 seconds between the time you press the Guide button and the time it actually comes up :lol: ) but there is one important inclusion. Every single channel is buffered 24 hours. It does not matter what channel you are on, you can flip to a different channel and rewind up to 24 hours. And their On Demand service (HBO On Demand, etc.) is expanding.

Once Time-Warner finishes a stable release and rolls it out in full nationwide the other cable companies will quickly move to match up. No way is Dish going to be able to match these kinds of capabilities. Thoughts?

[jarvantgroup]

Time-Warner Cable recently rolled out a test-pilot version of their latest Navigator software here, apparently one of only three cities testing this stuff. The guide is a real pain in the ass (up to 30 seconds between the time you press the Guide button and the time it actually comes up :lol: ) but there is one important inclusion. Every single channel is buffered 24 hours. It does not matter what channel you are on, you can flip to a different channel and rewind up to 24 hours. And their On Demand service (HBO On Demand, etc.) is expanding.

Once Time-Warner finishes a stable release and rolls it out in full nationwide the other cable companies will quickly move to match up. No way is Dish going to be able to match these kinds of capabilities. Thoughts?

Unfortunately, even with the inclusion of those added services, it will do little to offset the other major issues cable has with pricing, selection, picture quality and poor customer service. I doubt many people will make the switch to be able to rewind channels that they probably don't even watch. Sat providers would be wise to look into adding that option to it current services, though. :icon_cool

[koji68]

t does not matter what channel you are on, you can flip to a different channel and rewind up to 24 hours. And their On Demand service (HBO On Demand, etc.) is expanding.


So what you are saying is that tonight my wife is watching the nth rerun of Law and Order and I can say: Hey, let go to ESPN and watch Gonzaga's game from last night and it will be there for me to watch? hummm

Have you experienced this?

[Nick]

...Sat providers would be wise to look into adding that option to it current services, though. :icon_coolAnd just how could satcos possibly do a system-based "rewind" on demand service? :lol:

BTW, as a high-end cable sub, my cableco offers comparable rates, excellent PQ,
both HD and SD, 6 MB Internet and outstanding customer service. When I switched
from Dish to cable, I saved $25/m and got 68 more channels than were available on
Dish at the time.

I'm a happy cable camper! :p

[jrb531]

And just how could satcos possibly do a system-based "rewind" on demand service? :lol:

BTW, as a high-end cable sub, my cableco offers comparable rates, excellent PQ,
both HD and SD, 6 MB Internet and outstanding customer service. When I switched
from Dish to cable, I saved $25/m and got 68 more channels than were available on
Dish at the time.

I'm a happy cable camper! :p

Not that I question you but is that savings a temporary one? $25 a month seems pretty significant. You saved $25 "and" got 68 more channels and this is the price it will be next year also?

Or is this a "teaser" rate used to get you to switch and they next year you end up paying the same or more?

-JB

[Presence]

So what you are saying is that tonight my wife is watching the nth rerun of Law and Order and I can say: Hey, let go to ESPN and watch Gonzaga's game from last night and it will be there for me to watch? hummm

Have you experienced this?

Yes, I played around with a friend's system last night (I have Dish). The Guide did take a while to load and navigating around it was a bit of a drag -- complaints about it are actually being investigated by our local government. :D

The buffer is a pretty sweet deal, though, and yes you could do exactly what you said as long as the game was not more than 24 hours previous.

[heisman]

Not that I question you but is that savings a temporary one? $25 a month seems pretty significant. You saved $25 "and" got 68 more channels and this is the price it will be next year also?

Or is this a "teaser" rate used to get you to switch and they next year you end up paying the same or more?

-JB


TWC must have much better rates than Comcast. My Comcast bill was about $125 for internet and cable. The sad part about that bill is that I would have paid it forever and never shopped around if they had reliable equipment. The Moto DVR they charged me $12 a month for had to be swapped out about 5 times and the thing barely even lets you change channels, let alone function as a DVR. After I had enough with that Moto piece of trash, I shopped around and found that I could get DSL for $20 and E* for $56 (only $36 for 10 months) with functioning equipment. What a concept! So, basically I'm saving $70 a month for the next 10 months and $50 a month thereafter. Quite frankly, Comcast would have to offer me a DVR that gives blowjobs before I would ever go back to their ridiculous prices.

[Slordak]

My experience with Comcast pricing has always been that they give you some nice low-ball rate for the first 3 or 6 months. They carefully conceal their true pricing information (avoiding publishing it whenever possible), but then after the trial period ends, wham, they hit you with a nasty bill.

Comparing prices, it's always at least $15/month more than satellite for the same service, but they try and sell it as being "superior" with claims about higher quality, no rain fade, etc. It always cracks me up when Comcast breaks out the "extra TVs are free!" crap, neglecting to point out that such TVs are only free if one doesn't mind only being able to watch analog channels with no guide.

[jarvantgroup]

And just how could satcos possibly do a system-based "rewind" on demand service? :lol:

BTW, as a high-end cable sub, my cableco offers comparable rates, excellent PQ,
both HD and SD, 6 MB Internet and outstanding customer service. When I switched
from Dish to cable, I saved $25/m and got 68 more channels than were available on
Dish at the time.

I'm a happy cable camper! :p

Consider yourself in the minority!! Consumers aren't that fortunate here in SoFla with Comcast. :lol:

[jarvantgroup]

Yes dish offers the cheapest, but sadly it's also the worst in the business...
19 dollars a month is cheap, but 19 dollars in the 90's would have meant at least a package about equal to the 29 dollar basic cable package. Which may be why dish has not been advertising the family package lately, nobody wants it, they rather buy a cheap subscription to netflicks than waste their money on dead air.

The biggest complaint I've heard about the family package is the exclusion of some of the more popular channels from the AT100 or AT200 pkgs. IMO if E* repackaged the channel line-up, it would become more popular. You right though, I don't see a lot of new or current subscribers with that pkg. :icon_cool

[jrb531]

Yes dish offers the cheapest, but sadly it's also the worst in the business...
19 dollars a month is cheap, but 19 dollars in the 90's would have meant at least a package about equal to the 29 dollar basic cable package. Which may be why dish has not been advertising the family package lately, nobody wants it, they rather buy a cheap subscription to netflicks than waste their money on dead air.


If Dish is the worst in the business then please tell us what is better?

I'm no Dish Fanboy and although I have issues with them they still are the cheapest and the 622 is one of the best (if not the best) boxes in the industry.

-JB

[Cocoatreat]

after moving to miami in '95, i had adelphia cable. the price (i thought) was expensive at $65/mo. for that price i got 2 premium channels (1 hbo & 1 showtime) plus the regular channels. with the big dish i had several premiums for about the same price. with cable, i was never happy. it was overpriced and horrible customer service. cable just sucked. the priced always increased like clockwork every 3-4 months becuz there was no competition & we were at their mercy. also-- my cable always went out at the most inopportune times! at least 5-6 times/ mo! when i finally got e* in '97...... i was overjoyed. the prices were stable..and the service has been as expected. is it perfect? no.....but its just a matter of time! adelphia is now comcast.......i got them now for their internet.... & i must say.......they suck even MORE! the price is expensive....and the service is horrible....the uploads are the worse! downloads are good tho. but they are for now.....when some better internet service comes along i will leave asap! i just got the 622.....and my 1st hd.....i think its great! i have always gotten great service from e*. they have always been helpful and i have been loyal since '97. with the 622, the guide is almost automatic. so if you prefer your cable then so be it. i love my e*! i will stay with it . and when your cable teaser goes off........dont think we didnt tell u so......!

[Nick]

Not that I question you but is that savings a temporary one? $25 a month seems pretty significant. You saved $25 "and" got 68 more channels and this is the price it will be next year also?

Or is this a "teaser" rate used to get you to switch and they next year you end up paying the same or more?

-JBNo teaser rate, JB - even though I was a 'loyal' Dish sub for over 5 years, I've made it a practice to review my MCVP options from time to time. When I went back to the dark side I was already a (covert) basic cable sub just for locals & weather. The rate I got was the standard Platinum package rate with no discounts (except on hi-speed cable) and I still saved $25. My overall savings was actually $75/m ($900/yr) because I eliminated the duplicate programming I was getting from E*. All this was well documented and posted here a little over a year ago.

Another great advantage of going back to a much improved cable service, I didn't have to shell out $1,200 up front for two new HD DVRs. My two entirely dependable HD DVRs (SA 8300HD DVR) didn't cost a dime up front, just the monthly rental, and if either or both of them fails, free replacements are literally minutes away at my local cable office just a mile down the road.

As an aside, less than a month after getting cable, I suffered a stroke that affected my left side. Turns out simplifying my life by returning to cable was a fortuitous decision (stoke of luck?) for me, don't you think? :D

I'm not suggesting anything, except to say I think folks would do well to review their tv options periodically.

Regards...

BTW, you're welcome to read my original thread here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47079&highlight=adelphia%2C+cable%2C+hd%2C+%2425%2C+%247 5

[Paul Secic]

No teaser rate, JB - even though I was a 'loyal' Dish sub for over 5 years, I've made it a practice to review my MCVP options from time to time. When I went back to the dark side I was already a (covert) basic cable sub just for locals & weather. The rate I got was the standard Platinum package rate with no discounts (except on hi-speed cable) and I still saved $25. My overall savings was actually $75/m ($900/yr) because I eliminated the duplicate programming I was getting from E*. All this was well documented and posted here a little over a year ago.

Another great advantage of going back to a much improved cable service, I didn't have to shell out $1,200 up front for two new HD DVRs. My two entirely dependable HD DVRs (SA 8300HD DVR) didn't cost a dime up front, just the monthly rental, and if either or both of them fails, free replacements are literally minutes away at my local cable office just a mile down the road.

As an aside, less than a month after getting cable, I suffered a stroke that affected my left side. Turns out simplifying my life by returning to cable was a fortuitous decision (stoke of luck?) for me, don't you think? :D

I'm not suggesting anything, except to say I think folks would do well to review their tv options periodically.

Regards...

BTW, you're welcome to read my original thread here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47079&highlight=adelphia%2C+cable%2C+hd%2C+%2425%2C+%247 5

Comcast? I'm stwitching to Comcast Thursday. I'm getting the silver Pak & HBO + DVR $92 monthly. The reasons: $10 off my Internet and VOD.

[Presence]

Soooooo... back to my topic at hand. I was not really wanting to talk about price comparisons, more on features.

[bidger]

I believe I heard that, while the channels are buffered, you're not able to jump through commercials. Can anyone confirm or dispel that? As a DVR enthusiast that would be something that would keep me using devices where I still have that option.

[heisman]

I believe I heard that, while the channels are buffered, you're not able to jump through commercials. Can anyone confirm or dispel that? As a DVR enthusiast that would be something that would keep me using devices where I still have that option.

Seriously, you can barely even change channels with a Moto 6412 let alone skip ahead 30 secs. It's not a feature of the device. In fact, the 6412 is basically void of any redeeming features. All that for $12 a month!

[bidger]

OK, but that Motorola is a Comcast box, right? Doesn't TWC use a Scientific-Atlanta?

[Ohioankev]

No teaser rate, JB - even though I was a 'loyal' Dish sub for over 5 years, I've made it a practice to review my MCVP options from time to time. When I went back to the dark side I was already a (covert) basic cable sub just for locals & weather. The rate I got was the standard Platinum package rate with no discounts (except on hi-speed cable) and I still saved $25. My overall savings was actually $75/m ($900/yr) because I eliminated the duplicate programming I was getting from E*. All this was well documented and posted here a little over a year ago.

Another great advantage of going back to a much improved cable service, I didn't have to shell out $1,200 up front for two new HD DVRs. My two entirely dependable HD DVRs (SA 8300HD DVR) didn't cost a dime up front, just the monthly rental, and if either or both of them fails, free replacements are literally minutes away at my local cable office just a mile down the road.

As an aside, less than a month after getting cable, I suffered a stroke that affected my left side. Turns out simplifying my life by returning to cable was a fortuitous decision (stoke of luck?) for me, don't you think? :D

I'm not suggesting anything, except to say I think folks would do well to review their tv options periodically.

Regards...

BTW, you're welcome to read my original thread here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47079&highlight=adelphia%2C+cable%2C+hd%2C+%2425%2C+%247 5

I've used a SA 8000 HD Box from Charter, it was okay i really can't say nothing bad about it at the time but when it comes to thier Standard Definition SA8300 boxes they SUCK!! I had two of them in my house for a couple of weeks recently and they quickly reminded me why I left Charter (now Suddenlink) When DISH was losing distants. The boxes were only used to record about five shows a piece off of NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC and The CW. Half of the time the Scientific Atlanta boxes would miss a recording by scheduling it two days later after it aired when something else was on. Also each recording used about 8% of my DVR space so after 5 shows my box would be almost half full wheras my 625 currently has 78 events with 15 hours remaining. Also with the $130/month price tag they can keep thier higher price service because right now i'm paying $80 for DISH, $18 for DSL, and $25 for basic cable. So as it stands right now I have three services for the cost of one service alone and DISH imo has the better DVR with the 625 compared to the SA 8000 model.

[diospyros]

Does anyone know how cable VOD works from a legal standpoint? Do the cable companies pay extra licensing fees to the copyright holders? Because this is essentially the same thing as the old Napster/Kaazaa-type file sharing. Each time a subscriber goes back and looks at a recorded show, that should be considered a new "copy" of the intellectual property which the cable company is selling as a service.

Has some deal been made, or is this are the copyright hounds just a little slow on this one?

[grooves12]

I don't really see too much benefit of this... this is basically an enhanced version of flipping channels. And flipping channels is pretty much never done by most that are progressing in the age of DVR's.

If it's something you want to watch... record it. If its not important enough to set a recording, then is it important enough to rewind through 12 hours of programming to find it?

Just another wasted effort by Cable providers who don't "get it" IMO.

[James Long]

I like the concept of being able to rewind a channel I'm not watching. Sometimes I'm flipping channels at 5 past the hour and want to see the beginning of the show. 12 hours is a bit of overkill, but would allow for timerless records (oops, I forgot Dateline TCAP was on last night ... rewind!).

Perhaps not a killer application but a decent one that is hard to replicate. For cable's sake they better hope the bandwidth can keep up when the rewind service becomes popular! :)

[jrb531]

No teaser rate, JB - even though I was a 'loyal' Dish sub for over 5 years, I've made it a practice to review my MCVP options from time to time. When I went back to the dark side I was already a (covert) basic cable sub just for locals & weather. The rate I got was the standard Platinum package rate with no discounts (except on hi-speed cable) and I still saved $25. My overall savings was actually $75/m ($900/yr) because I eliminated the duplicate programming I was getting from E*. All this was well documented and posted here a little over a year ago.

Another great advantage of going back to a much improved cable service, I didn't have to shell out $1,200 up front for two new HD DVRs. My two entirely dependable HD DVRs (SA 8300HD DVR) didn't cost a dime up front, just the monthly rental, and if either or both of them fails, free replacements are literally minutes away at my local cable office just a mile down the road.

As an aside, less than a month after getting cable, I suffered a stroke that affected my left side. Turns out simplifying my life by returning to cable was a fortuitous decision (stoke of luck?) for me, don't you think? :D

I'm not suggesting anything, except to say I think folks would do well to review their tv options periodically.

Regards...

BTW, you're welcome to read my original thread here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47079&highlight=adelphia%2C+cable%2C+hd%2C+%2425%2C+%247 5

I guess it depends on where you live. In Chicago, even with Comcast's $99 teaser, I sat down and added in all the nickles and dimes and it comes out to be not so great a deal.

Now "if" you need to use your phone 24/7 ($33 cable, $33 phone, $33 internet) then I guess it's a good deal but to me:

$24 basic phone service
$20 DSL
$85 Dish

$129, while more than the $99 teaser, is less than what the real rate would be for cable here for the same service.

Now if they would offer basic internet and basic phoen service for less and let me apply the savings toward a better pay tv package then I "might" bite but not everyone needs 4 or 6mb internet and not everyone needs unlimited phone calls so I would be paying a ton for what I do not need and extra for the pay tv channels I do need.

So that $99 is great if it happens to fit what you need. If it does not they do not give you the flexability to up one and reduce another.

I am glad it works for you, however, and hope someday that I get some "real" choice here in Chicago.

-JB

[heisman]

I am glad it works for you, however, and hope someday that I get some "real" choice here in Chicago.

-JB


Here, Here!!!

Comcast is all smoke and mirrors. They have the worst equipment and the worst pricing in the business. ATT's U-Verse is on its way. Hopefully, it will be as competitively priced as their internet and home phone services.

[HarryS]

In my area, cable doesn't even have digital, let alone HD, it's "Sudden Link" by the way.

[whines83]

DIGIPiC 1000 (Includes Basic, Standard and digital $64.75
Encore Movie Pak $2.95
Cinema Choice $2.95
tax at $4.94

total = $75.60 a month for crappy cable some digital and mostly analog.

now for dishnetwork's version...

America's top 250 $52.99 all digital
Encore Movie pak included in top 250
Cinema choice included in top 250
tax $3.71

total = $56.70

in my area dishnetwork is almost $19 cheaper for the SAME package with the same channels..or i could skip out on FX and AMC channels and encore movie pak and cinema choice then my bill would be like this.

America's top 100 $29.99 i dont care for locals..
tax at $2.09

total = $32.98

i am saving $42.62 a month by not having crappy cable..

i highly doub cable in your area is cheaper in your area not unless your doing the winback program or something else..

saying cable is cheaper than dishnetwork is like saying pigs can fly.

[jarvantgroup]

DIGIPiC 1000 (Includes Basic, Standard and digital $64.75
Encore Movie Pak $2.95
Cinema Choice $2.95
tax at $4.94

total = $75.60 a month for crappy cable some digital and mostly analog.

now for dishnetwork's version...

America's top 250 $52.99 all digital
Encore Movie pak included in top 250
Cinema choice included in top 250
tax $3.71

total = $56.70

in my area dishnetwork is almost $19 cheaper for the SAME package with the same channels..or i could skip out on FX and AMC channels and encore movie pak and cinema choice then my bill would be like this.

America's top 100 $29.99 i dont care for locals..
tax at $2.09

total = $32.98

i am saving $42.62 a month by not having crappy cable..

i highly doub cable in your area is cheaper in your area not unless your doing the winback program or something else..

saying cable is cheaper than dishnetwork is like saying pigs can fly.

So, back to the discussion at hand....That's exactly my point, cable has way too many other issues that a few piecemeal options will not solve. :icon_cool

[bidger]

Well, cable also has broadband and phone that fit in a neat little package to go along with programming. There are also On Demand fans who don't want to deal with DVRs. This rewind feature might be something else the average consumer might latch onto as well.

I've been with Verizon DSL (1.5 Mbps Down, ~368 kbps Up) and the initial thrill of having broadband of any kind is wearing off. If they don't have FIOS available to me by the time my commitment is up at the end of the year, I'll be sorely tempted to switch over to cable until they can provide it.

If you're waiting for satellite to provide broadband to you exclusively in an area where cable or DSL is available to you, good luck with that.

[cornflakes]

I think satellite's only way to truly expand and compete with cable's on-demand services (video on demand, rewinding any channels up to 24 hours) is streaming video over the Internet. I'm waiting for DishOnline VOD, which should be pretty awesome if it works. I don't think we'll be able to do the live rewinding of any channel up to 24 hours thing over the Internet (you'd need a pretty fast connection for that), but I can see satellite companies offering a way for you to download video hour-by-hour from other channels.

[heisman]

Well, cable also has broadband and phone that fit in a neat little package to go along with programming.


Comcast's internet and phone services are even more overpriced than their video services.

[rcoleman111]

Well, cable also has broadband and phone that fit in a neat little package to go along with programming. There are also On Demand fans who don't want to deal with DVRs. This rewind feature might be something else the average consumer might latch onto as well.


There really isn't much advantage to buying Internet and phone service in a "neat little package" with your TV programming. From what I've seen, it doesn't even save you any money (I recall the guy who was bragging in this forum about the bundle of services that were only costing him $40 a month more than buying them separately). And if you want a DVR from your cable company, be prepared to pay for it - most of them are charging considerably more than DirecTV for their DVRs, which tend to be clunky standalone devices (i.e., not integrated in the receiver like the satellite DVRs).

You also have to consider the disadvantages of bundled services - if your cable goes out (a common occurrence in my experience with cable), your phone and Internet service is out as well. You would need a cell phone to even call the cable company to report it. And of course, you can't buy cell phone service from the cable company. Many people are ditching their landline phone service these days anyway.

If having these bundled services on the same bill is what you like, just set up a credit card autopay and pay them all with your monthly credit card bill. Use a cashback card and you'll even get a cash rebate.

Video-on-demand is unlikely to ever become popular. It has been around for several years, but most of it is encumbered with DRM, which prevents you from transferring the programming to other devices. You can watch a program for as long as it's offered and then it's gone. Given a choice between a DVR and VOD, most people are going to choose the DVR.

[rcoleman111]

Once Time-Warner finishes a stable release and rolls it out in full nationwide the other cable companies will quickly move to match up. No way is Dish going to be able to match these kinds of capabilities. Thoughts?

HDTV will be the killer app for the next several years. And the cable companies do not have the capacity to match satellite in HD. That's why they are trying to promote on-demand services. And the problem with those services is that they tend to be encumbered by copy-protection.

[heisman]

Video-on-demand is unlikely to ever become popular.



Totally agree. The only thing I liked about it was the video dating service. I am married, but I loved checking out the hot chicks who couldn't get a date. You just had to wonder, "what's wrong with her?" :lol:

[satexplorer]

Cable sucks, not much variety there!

[Steve Mehs]

( I recall the guy who was bragging in this forum about the bundle of services that were only costing him $40 a month more than buying them separately).
That was me. And it was more like $10 more with cable then with DBS and crappy Verizon services and I get a hell of a lot more with cable bundling then with separate services. I have more HD then D*, more premium movie channels then D*, and I’m 5 times faster then Verizon’s top Dead Slow Line speed and IMO picture quality on cable is better then D*, much less compressed. That’s worth the extra $10 bucks to me. My figure did include two High Def DVRs, which I actually rent, not pay $300 upfront then a lease fee. $12.95 a box including rental and DVR fee, sure more then DirecTV, but with cable I don’t need a protection plan if something dies, no upfront costs and when a new model comes out I take a 30 minute drive to the office and pick up a new box. Cable could be by far cheaper for me, but I choose to not have it be because I want the extra internet speed.

There are some decent cable companies out there and my Time Warner franchise is one of them. Which is why after over 7 years of satellite TV I went back to them. Everytime I have given a price, it is always down to the exact penny, at full retail value, no promo prices and all fees (including cable franchise fee) are included and tax is figured out to the best of my knowledge. I am a HUGE fan of bundling and I'm glad Time Warner offers me their great services at discounts just because I subscribe to other services from them. I appreciate it.

(i.e., not integrated in the receiver like the satellite DVRs).

What? Where did you get that information? Every DVR cable companies hand out has been integrated with a digital cable tuner since day 1, be it Moto or Sci Atl.

You also have to consider the disadvantages of bundled services - if your cable goes out (a common occurrence in my experience with cable), your phone and Internet service is out as well.

What it has been about 2 ½ years now. One fluctuating outage due to a problem on my end when I was broadband only (serviced within 24 hours, full month invoice credit) and one 10 minute outage at 1 in the morning for system maintenance. That’s beats electricity percentagewise, and beats satellite. And aside from a pole going down or a problem at your end, it’s not always a guarantee that if the cableco has a problem that you automatically lose all three services, some outages will only affect one service, depending on the situation

HDTV will be the killer app for the next several years. And the cable companies do not have the capacity to match satellite in HD.

Sure they do. It’s called getting rid of analog channels.

Video On Demand is awesome. Nothing like being about to catch up on series you missed. Last night there was nothing on so I watched a few South Park episodes on Comedy Central on Demand, including 1 which I never saw before.

My experiences have been the same as Nick’s, my Scientific Atlanta 8300HDs have been perfect, never missed a recording yet, they always record when they’re supposed to and not record when they’re not suppose to. I’m looking forward to the new Navigator software, currently running SARA. A prioritizer for DVR Events and updated channel logos on the display banner is pretty much my only gripes with my cable box. My requests for TW, give me ESPN 2 HD, and wire my town for Digital Phone service so I can tell Verizon were to shove it.

[tm22721]

Satellite is usually the option of last resort due to high cost as well as poor bandwidth and high latency.

I have no choice because I am surounded by high mountain ridges. I pay $130 for Dish and $60 for satellite internet plus $18 for backup dialup.

IMO universal broadband access will turn into a political issue as with the Rural Electrification Act in the 20s.

Can somebody tell me why the LEO (low earth orbit) satellite initiative failed back in the 90s ?

[rcoleman111]

That was me. And it was more like $10 more with cable then with DBS and crappy Verizon services and I get a hell of a lot more with cable bundling then with separate services.


Yes, I remember your name now. You're the one who thought he was watching all of the Buffalo Bills games in HD when half of them were really in SD. Glad to hear you're happy with a bundle of services that costs more than if you bought them separately.



I have more HD then D*, more premium movie channels then D*, and I’m 5 times faster then Verizon’s top Dead Slow Line speed and IMO picture quality on cable is better then D*, much less compressed. That’s worth the extra $10 bucks to me.


Will you still feel that way when DirecTV has 100 HD channels and you're watching most of them in SD? You are entitled to your opinion on picture quality, but I've been quite pleased with the HD quality on DTV.


My figure did include two High Def DVRs, which I actually rent, not pay $300 upfront then a lease fee. $12.95 a box including rental and DVR fee, sure more then DirecTV, but with cable I don’t need a protection plan if something dies, no upfront costs and when a new model comes out I take a 30 minute drive to the office and pick up a new box.


You're making my case for me. If I had to pay $26 a month for 2 DVRs, I wouldn't feel like I was getting a bargain.


There are some decent cable companies out there and my Time Warner franchise is one of them. Which is why after over 7 years of satellite TV I went back to them.


There may be some decent cable companies out there, but I've never found any. I had cable TV service with several different companies over 20 years and they all sucked. I've had satellite TV for 8 years and I've never even considered going back to cable. Glad to hear you're happy with cable, but there is a reason so many people have switched to satellite.


What? Where did you get that information? Every DVR cable companies hand out has been integrated with a digital cable tuner since day 1, be it Moto or Sci Atl.


I tried to order a DVR for my mother, who lives in a retirement community where she can't get satellite TV. Charter told me she would have to get a receiver for about $6 a month (she subscribes to a basic package and doesn't use a receiver) and a separate DVR for another $15 a month.



What it has been about 2 ½ years now. One fluctuating outage due to a problem on my end when I was broadband only (serviced within 24 hours, full month invoice credit) and one 10 minute outage at 1 in the morning for system maintenance. That’s beats electricity percentagewise, and beats satellite. And aside from a pole going down or a problem at your end, it’s not always a guarantee that if the cableco has a problem that you automatically lose all three services, some outages will only affect one service, depending on the situation


Most people who have had cable know better than that. One of my colleagues who worked from home was always having to make trips to the office because her Comcast broadband service was down. And while some cable outages may not affect all of your services, there are definitely problems that will knock out all of your services at once.

I'm glad to hear you've only had one outage in 2 1/2 years, but that hasn't been my experience with cable. Then again, maybe it's like your memory of those Bills games you thought you saw in HD.


Sure they do. It’s called getting rid of analog channels.


HD requires several times the bandwidth of analog and digital SD. If they get rid of all of their SD, it won't give them anywhere near the bandwidth needed to match the 100-150 channels the satellite companies will be carrying.



Video On Demand is awesome. Nothing like being about to catch up on series you missed. Last night there was nothing on so I watched a few South Park episodes on Comedy Central on Demand, including 1 which I never saw before.


Glad to hear you're happy with it, but remember what I said previously - much of the VOD content is copy-protected, which means you can only watch it as long as it is offered and you can't copy it to other devices.

By the way, if you've been a Time Warner subscriber for 2 1/2 years and you're thrilled with the service, why are you still posting in this forum?

[bidger]

I will concur with Steve on some points. First, as a TWC consumer from around 1995 (not certain of the exact date they took over for Paragon) until 2000, there were none of the horror stories I saw other people post on sat boards about the cable companies they left behind. My main issue was as a NY Giants fan in Buffalo Bills country. Twice during the 1997 Season, NY Giants home games against AFC teams weren't carried by the local NBC affiliate because the Bills were playing at the same time and they opted for those games.

Enter NFL ST and the fact that the DirecTV systems were going for ~$200 during the 1997 Holiday Season and I became a D* customer in Jan. 1998. I kept TWC lifeline for my networks.

In 1999 I called TWC about a Roadrunner special and if I was eligible. The CSR assured me I was and I said I'd consider it. No more than 15 seconds after I hung up, that same CSR called back to tell me she misspoke. Because I was a Lifeline customer, I wasn't eligible for the special and would have to pay 2x for installation and service of RR. That got me to thinking about seeing what I could qualify for as far as networks from D* and found I could get CBS, FOX, and PBS. NBC and ABC are grade A signal, so I cut the cord with cable.

There are some things about cable that I find nickel & dime, like how TWC charges monthly for the remote you'd use for your set top box. I've also found D* to be more innovative as far as equipment and, though I don't sub to that service, feel the same can be said about E*. I see the DVR friends have from TWC and there are some nice features, like PIP, but it feels clunky and the 160GB drive for a HD DVR doesn't cut it.

Still, like I said before, cable has quality broadband and satellite doesn't. Satellite broadband is for folks with no other option and DSL is OK, as long as you don't make too many demands of it. If FIOS were an option, the choice would be clear, but that may be awhile.

It may be different for you if you're in an area where you're served with HD locals, but for me, the gap was a lot wider between satellite and cable when I first switched and it's narrowed significantly. The fact that local cable can't provide CBS or FOX HD keeps me where I am though.

[heisman]

By the way, if you've been a Time Warner subscriber for 2 1/2 years and you're thrilled with the service, why are you still posting in this forum?


If you are so happy with D*, why are you posting in the E* forum? (j/k) :D

[Nick]

...The fact that local cable can't provide CBS or FOX HD keeps me where I am though.
That's too bad, Bidger...thankfully, I get six locals via Comcast out of JAX
including ABC-HD, CBS-HD, NBC-HD, FOX-HD, PBS-HD and The CW-HD.

Suite! :p

[lee635]

Hi all,
This 24 hour rewind sounds like it could become a "killer app". I guess I'd like to know the technical side of how the recorder actually records all those channels? It must be recording the stream coming in from the cable line, not using tuners and so forth as is done by current DVRs.

Could a satellite box record the stream coming down the coax from the dish and perhaps get somewhat close to this functionality? Going back to C-band days, I know there is a horizontal and a vertical feed on each sat. If the satellite box is reading the signal off the 119 sat, could it, for example, record all the horizontal channels that you subscribe to, or all the vertical, but not both at once? It's not as good as cable's rewind of all channels, but half the channels would be a pretty good compromise. Any thoughts?

[bidger]

Nick, the folks who have that option, either OTA (free is always a great option) or through their multichannel provider, have the world by a string, IMO.

[heisman]

That's too bad, Bidger...thankfully, I get six locals via Comcast out of JAX
including ABC-HD, CBS-HD, NBC-HD, FOX-HD, PBS-HD and The CW-HD.

Suite! :p

You don't need to pay anyone anything to get those channels.

[Nick]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I've probably been in electronics longer
than you've been alive. Since a 60' tower isn't an option for me, in order
to get JAX locals OTA, I would have to pay moving expenses to move to
Florida in order to be within range and I really don't want to have to move.

:rolleyes:

[heisman]

Ignoring your confrontational tone, the fact remains that the channels you mentioned (CBS, NBC, ABC, etc.) are free. Your cableco does not have to pay any extra to carry HD locals, so you are paying them for "reception", not for the channels themselves. You "chose" to pay your cableco for them, as opposed to putting up the necessary equipment to see them for free.

[rcoleman111]

If you are so happy with D*, why are you posting in the E* forum? (j/k) :D

I don't usually read the Dish Network forums, but I saw the link under "Recent Threads". At least E* is satellite. :)

[Paul Secic]

That was me. And it was more like $10 more with cable then with DBS and crappy Verizon services and I get a hell of a lot more with cable bundling then with separate services. I have more HD then D*, more premium movie channels then D*, and I’m 5 times faster then Verizon’s top Dead Slow Line speed and IMO picture quality on cable is better then D*, much less compressed. That’s worth the extra $10 bucks to me. My figure did include two High Def DVRs, which I actually rent, not pay $300 upfront then a lease fee. $12.95 a box including rental and DVR fee, sure more then DirecTV, but with cable I don’t need a protection plan if something dies, no upfront costs and when a new model comes out I take a 30 minute drive to the office and pick up a new box. Cable could be by far cheaper for me, but I choose to not have it be because I want the extra internet speed.

There are some decent cable companies out there and my Time Warner franchise is one of them. Which is why after over 7 years of satellite TV I went back to them. Everytime I have given a price, it is always down to the exact penny, at full retail value, no promo prices and all fees (including cable franchise fee) are included and tax is figured out to the best of my knowledge. I am a HUGE fan of bundling and I'm glad Time Warner offers me their great services at discounts just because I subscribe to other services from them. I appreciate it.



What? Where did you get that information? Every DVR cable companies hand out has been integrated with a digital cable tuner since day 1, be it Moto or Sci Atl.



What it has been about 2 ½ years now. One fluctuating outage due to a problem on my end when I was broadband only (serviced within 24 hours, full month invoice credit) and one 10 minute outage at 1 in the morning for system maintenance. That’s beats electricity percentagewise, and beats satellite. And aside from a pole going down or a problem at your end, it’s not always a guarantee that if the cableco has a problem that you automatically lose all three services, some outages will only affect one service, depending on the situation



Sure they do. It’s called getting rid of analog channels.

Video On Demand is awesome. Nothing like being about to catch up on series you missed. Last night there was nothing on so I watched a few South Park episodes on Comedy Central on Demand, including 1 which I never saw before.

My experiences have been the same as Nick’s, my Scientific Atlanta 8300HDs have been perfect, never missed a recording yet, they always record when they’re supposed to and not record when they’re not suppose to. I’m looking forward to the new Navigator software, currently running SARA. A prioritizer for DVR Events and updated channel logos on the display banner is pretty much my only gripes with my cable box. My requests for TW, give me ESPN 2 HD, and wire my town for Digital Phone service so I can tell Verizon were to shove it.
Steve:


Does your cable company charge $10 for digital boxes for each room?

[Steve Mehs]

Yes, I remember your name now. You're the one who thought he was watching all of the Buffalo Bills games in HD when half of them were really in SD. Glad to hear you're happy with a bundle of services that costs more than if you bought them separately.
How is this relevant? Most of the games I saw were in high def, I started 8 games were in HD on CBS, there were actually 6, I was off by 2, big deal. I never stated all the games were in HD, when three were blacked out locally and I missed a game due to work so I would have no idea. For the second time, if you want to twist and do some spin doctoring on my past posts, at least attempt to be half right.

And yes I would be paying $10 more, but I get a hell of a lot more, apparently you don't understand the concept of getting more/better services and paying more. Lets say I drop my internet speed, I'd still be over 3 times faster then DSL, I'd be paying $15 LESS with cable then DirecTV and Verizon.

Will you still feel that way when DirecTV has 100 HD channels and you're watching most of them in SD? You are entitled to your opinion on picture quality, but I've been quite pleased with the HD quality on DTV.
When there’s 100 national HD channels out there, let me know until then I could care less. Stertchovision HD channels do nothing for me. At the moment ESPN 2 HD is all that I want, when the Sabres are broadcast in HD, MSG HD would be nice as well. Until then, stretched and upconverted repeats of Seinfeld and Full House on the future TBS HD mean nothing to me.

You're making my case for me. If I had to pay $26 a month for 2 DVRs, I wouldn't feel like I was getting a bargain.
With DirecTV, for a two box set up you’ve got the $4.99 additional receiver fee and if you don’t have Premier a $5.99 DVR Fee, if I had Phone service, one box rental fee would go bye bye. So at the worst I’m paying $12.95 more but wait, compare apples to apples, I don’t need a protection plan for $5 or whatever they change, I didn’t pay anything up front and in the end what difference does it matter, my final cost still comes out only $10 more than the alternative. Two HD DVRs could cost me $80 alone but the final ~$210 v ~$220 price figure is all that matters. That’s like saying on DirecTV all the movie channels cost $42, on cable they're $38. Comparing a part of a whole is pointless.

There may be some decent cable companies out there, but I've never found any. I had cable TV service with several different companies over 20 years and they all sucked. I've had satellite TV for 8 years and I've never even considered going back to cable. Glad to hear you're happy with cable, but there is a reason so many people have switched to satellite.
And I agree. There are many cable systems that suck, the cable system that most of the Buffalo area has sucks, it used to be Adelphia now it’s Time Warner of Western NY. It’s a crappy system from what I’ve seen, and if they were my cable provider, I’d still be with satellite. I just happen to live in the right area by 2 miles.

I tried to order a DVR for my mother, who lives in a retirement community where she can't get satellite TV. Charter told me she would have to get a receiver for about $6 a month (she subscribes to a basic package and doesn't use a receiver) and a separate DVR for another $15 a month.

The CSR probably had no idea what they were talking about, other than PC solutions TiVo and Replay TV are the only standalone DVR service providers around. Digital cable is required to have a DVR though.

I'm glad to hear you've only had one outage in 2 1/2 years, but that hasn't been my experience with cable. Then again, maybe it's like your memory of those Bills games you thought you saw in HD.

Whatever dude. Smartass comments aside, I know when my internet was down and I know when I have no TV service. I would imagine that as a phone provider now, cable companies will do whatever they can to keep downtime to an absolute minimum. People expect that 100% of the time they pick up a phone they will hear a dial tone, this will inherently force cable companies to be more reliable. To go along with that, specifically to my area, Time Warner will be the #1 telephone provider in the Rochester NY region by summer 2008. Having and unreliable service and pissing off customers will not do them any good. And as per service agreement, any outage of any service in excess of 4 hours will get you a $20 invoice credit upon request, why I got a full invoice credit I have no idea, but my TW bill at the time was $29.95 total for Road Runner only with a promo.

HD requires several times the bandwidth of analog and digital SD. If they get rid of all of their SD, it won't give them anywhere near the bandwidth needed to match the 100-150 channels the satellite companies will be carrying.
2 HD channels can comfortably use the same bandwidth as 1 analog standard def channel, 3 HD channels can happen but that’s pushing it. About 14 standard def digital channels use the same bandwidth as 1 analog channel. There have been many posts on AVS on the engineering aspect of this along with analog v QAM modulation then math is all there to back it up from cable engineers. If you want proof to see for yourself, get some one who has an HD DVR with cable on a cable system that does not do digital simulcast and record CSI on the analog CBS and on CBS HD. Note the percentage of used hard drive space, delete one of the recordings, figure out approximately how my gigs the analog recording uses up and how many gigs the HD recording uses and with some simple math you can see this in a basic sense.

Glad to hear you're happy with it, but remember what I said previously - much of the VOD content is copy-protected, which means you can only watch it as long as it is offered and you can't copy it to other devices.
It’s a personal thing, but I don’t archive. I had a few hundred VHS tapes that I record stuff on that I only watched once, copying it to another medium isn’t important to me. If I must have it I’ll buy on DVD or download from iTunes.

By the way, if you've been a Time Warner subscriber for 2 1/2 years and you're thrilled with the service, why are you still posting in this forum?
That 2 ½ years includes when I was broadband only, I had cable TV again now for 1 year. Road Runner since 9/04, Digital Cable since 2/06. Besides, show me where it says you can’t post here if you have cable? Three out of the top eight most active posters (including Nick and myself) on this site no longer have satellite TV.

[Steve Mehs]

There are some things about cable that I find nickel & dime, like how TWC charges monthly for the remote you'd use for your set top box. I've also found D* to be more innovative as far as equipment and, though I don't sub to that service, feel the same can be said about E*. I see the DVR friends have from TWC and there are some nice features, like PIP, but it feels clunky and the 160GB drive for a HD DVR doesn't cut it.
Here digital terminals are $7.95, on the bill it’s broken down to something like $7.64 for the terminal and $0.31 for the remote. Two different ways of saying the same thing. As for hard drives, Scientific Atlanta 8300HDs (and probably the 8300s as well) support external SATA hard drives. People have added 500GB external drives to the DVR, I’m planning to get a 200GB or 250GB hard drive myself. I agree though 160GB for a stock hard drive is too small, 250GB would be nice but to upgrade the DVR would probably cost me no more the $150.

I get ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and FOX in HD, don’t really care about CW or MyNetworkTV, I’d rather not have them. I also get all the Rochester locals in HD via unencrypted QAM.

[renelicious]

Hi all,
This 24 hour rewind sounds like it could become a "killer app". I guess I'd like to know the technical side of how the recorder actually records all those channels? It must be recording the stream coming in from the cable line, not using tuners and so forth as is done by current DVRs.


Without having looked into the service at all, I doubt that the local recorder is doing the buffering for the channels. 24 hours of content for several hundred channels would take *a lot* of disk space. I don't think any current DVRs could buffer all that and still leave much space left over for the user to actually have any recording on their drive.

Its more likely that the cable company buffers the content on their side and then allows the user to stream it back. It would work the same as Video on Demand in that case.

Again, I haven't seen or used the service, but I think that would be more likely. Of course then as mentioned they will likely be using plenty of bandwidth to provide this service. Sounds pretty cool though.

On another topic mentioned earlier, I would think that VOD will become popular someday once huge amounts of content are available. The old Qwest commercial where the guy checks into a hotel and asks what they have to watch on TV and the receptionist tells him "We have every movie ever made" points this out. I'd say we're still a ways off from that happening, but I don't think anyone would disagree as long as the legal crap can get worked out it will probably happen someday.

[Steve Mehs]

Its more likely that the cable company buffers the content on their side and then allows the user to stream it back. It would work the same as Video on Demand in that case.

That's probably it. That's how Start Over works as well.

[rcoleman111]

Quote:
Yes, I remember your name now. You're the one who thought he was watching all of the Buffalo Bills games in HD when half of them were really in SD.

How is this relevant? Most of the games I saw were in high def, I started 8 games were in HD on CBS, there were actually 6, I was off by 2, big deal. I never stated all the games were in HD, when three were blacked out locally and I missed a game due to work so I would have no idea. For the second time, if you want to twist and do some spin doctoring on my past posts, at least attempt to be half right.


Let me refresh your memory:


Most of the Bills games were in HD last year, not sure about the 3 home games that didn't sell out.


mtnagel :
Not that I don't believe you, but are you sure? GCT said only 3 games were shown in HD each week on CBS. I really doubt that the Bills would have been in the top 3 games most weeks. I didn't have SF, but I'm pretty sure the only time the Bills were in HD, was when the game was on Fox.


Out of the 16 games, 14 were on CBS, out of those, 11 were televised locally. The second Jets game was not in HD neither was the Texans game. I did not see the Bears game early on in the season as I had to work that Sunday so I have no idea. But for the remaining 8 games, yes they were in HD.



How is this relevant? It's relevant because it's an indication of the accuracy of your comments. I guess it's possible you are on the only cable system in America where your service never goes out. And maybe the picture quality really is better than DirecTV's. Then again, maybe you're just "off by 2" again.

[Steve Mehs]

I can remember just fine thank you very much. All you’re showing me is what I said, that I was wrong and I was off by two damn games. I’m sure you have never been wrong, but I’m not like you, I do make mistakes, and I have no problem admitting them and I did make a mistake and I admitted it what about 3 times now. The fact that you’re so hung up on this is hilarious :lol: Notice how you didn’t mention the other guy who said the only games in HD were those on FOX. I was off by two, he was off by six and I’m the most inaccurate human on the planet :lol:

And my cable has gone out as I said above, but not as much as you hope it would, because my cable is more reliable then satellite, plain and simple. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t subscribe to it. Why would I want to tolerate constant outages? I wouldn’t. Would it be correct to assume that in your 20 years or whatever of having cable, you have had every cable service from every franchise in the country? You must have moved around a lot. There are seven different TW franchise s in NY State alone. And yes my picture quality on cable is better, no difference noticed on a normal TV, but blown up on a 42” HDTV standard def DirecTV is terrible, cable isn't perfect either, while still some pixilation, most channels, especially the movie channels, have very little compression artifacts. Some channels do look worse than others though, on cable Comedy Central is over compressed, so is ESPN and Sabres hockey games are mediocre at best on MSG. But it’s better overall.

BTW – I just got the so called ‘price increase’ notice from Time Warner in the mail yesterday. While cable TV prices went up $3 (just like two satellite providers that I know of) affecting the price of bundled packages, internet is decreasing in price by $20 and DVR fees are changing a little bit, premium movie packages have also decreased $5. My prices are going down in both situations, what I have now and what I will have in the future. Time Warner $214.57. DirecTV and Verizon $216.82. Including every fee, every tax (to the best of my knowledge) and equal levels of services the best it can be worked out. If it wasn't for Verizon’s $2 increase on Freedom, prices would have been pretty much dead even. So I'm now getting more and paying less. Again now I'm bragging about paying $2.25 LESS and getting so much MORE. Time Warner Cable is simply the best value in TV entertainment, broadband and telephone that I can get for the level of service I want at this time. It wasn't like that a few years ago, and it may not be like that in a few years from now, but currently, they are.

[rcoleman111]

And my cable has gone out as I said above, but not as much as you hope it would, because my cable is more reliable then satellite, plain and simple. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t subscribe to it. Why would I want to tolerate constant outages? I wouldn’t. Would it be correct to assume that in your 20 years or whatever of having cable, you have had every cable service from every franchise in the country? You must have moved around a lot. There are seven different TW franchise s in NY State alone. And yes my picture quality on cable is better, no difference noticed on a normal TV, but blown up on a 42” HDTV standard def DirecTV is terrible, cable isn't perfect either, while still some pixilation, most channels, especially the movie channels, have very little compression artifacts.

Thanks for the lengthy reply.

I had service with several different cable systems over a period of more than 20 years (1979 to 1999, plus a couple of years when I carried a lifeline cable service). I was on the Area Cablevision system in Jacksonville, FL and I've been on several different cable systems in the Atlanta area. All of them provided poor service. Some of them may have improved since then due to the competition that has emerged in recent years, but I've been much happier with satellite TV, so there has been no reason to go back to cable. I do look at the cable pricing on occasion, but it never really looks like a bargain, even when you take the bundling into account.

I agree that the SD channels on DirecTV don't look all that good these days, particularly on big HDTV sets. I think they've compressed them too much in order to make room for HD channels until they can get their new satellites online. The HD channels look really good to me, however. I'm not saying there isn't ever any pixellation, but it really isn't enough to bother me.

One thing I noticed in looking at the Time Warner lineup in your area is that it doesn't seem to have my favorite channel - NFL Network. Am I just not seeing it or is that channel not carried?

[Steve Mehs]

No NFL Network on TW. TW wants it in the Sports Tier, the NFL wants it made available to everyone. I would like to have the NFL Network since they have a few games, but since they seem to be Thursday night games, it doesn’t make a difference, I work nights so I wouldn’t see the games anyway. I’d rather have ESPN 2 HD at this point.

[rcoleman111]

That's unfortunate. You could always DVR the games - that's what I always did when I had to work on Monday nights. From what I've read, the NFL has been asking for a lot more money since they added those Thursday games and some of the cable operators are balking at paying it. A channel like that probably does belong on a sports tier instead of the basic tier.

[DCSholtis]

No NFL Network on TW. TW wants it in the Sports Tier, the NFL wants it made available to everyone. I would like to have the NFL Network since they have a few games, but since they seem to be Thursday night games, it doesn’t make a difference, I work nights so I wouldn’t see the games anyway. I’d rather have ESPN 2 HD at this point.

NFL Network actually has Thursday AND Saturday night games.

[Steve Mehs]

I know, last year it was 4 Thursday night and 3 Saturday night games, one of those Saturdays I was at *tada* work. I have less of a life then most people here, I’m either at work or on here arguing in the great debate on sat v cable. :) So losing 2 games didn't really mean much. I can't watch sports on DVR, tried it with Sabres games when I went back to night shift, end up fast forwarding to get to the good parts, but miss a lot of action in between.

NBA TV is in the Sports Tier on Time Warner, I see no reason why the NFL Network shouldn’t be. I wouldn’t mind an increase on that, the Sports Tier is only $1.95 extra. Never really watch anything on the extra channels, but sometimes I’ll catch a good college hockey game or something, since it’s so cheap, why not.

[jrbdmb]

I don't really see too much benefit of this... this is basically an enhanced version of flipping channels. And flipping channels is pretty much never done by most that are progressing in the age of DVR's.

If it's something you want to watch... record it. If its not important enough to set a recording, then is it important enough to rewind through 12 hours of programming to find it?

Just another wasted effort by Cable providers who don't "get it" IMO.I "get it". There are many instances where I find out I missed an interesting program by a few hours. (I don't always have the time to scour the entire program guide to find stuff I want to watch.) Or perhaps one or both tuners are already in use watching / recording another program. If program was on ABC / NBC / CBS / FOX and I had west coast distant NETs I might be able to watch it on them, otherwise out of luck. Being able to rewind any channel 24 hours is a neat option, I would definitley use it a lot. Imagine this with a sports package - you really could watch every NFL ST gameif you wanted. Not sure if I would switch back to Comcast to get it ... :)

[anettis]

I had been a Time Warner cable and internet user since sometime in 1998. All I can say is they rock! However I suspect a lot probably depends on your particular market. I am in the Tampa Bay area and Time Warner seems to service this market with their most cutting edge offerings. They had me on high speed internet access in 1998. I had DVR service a long time ago. They were early to the market with video on demand. If you want a HD STB there is no up charge. There is a minimal charge for the DVR option with a STB. You don’t loose service during a thunderstorm. SD channels seem to have much better PQ than with Dish. They now have all sorts of free VOD offerings. Due to the 2 way communication and video on demand the future applications a company like Time Warner can pursue are almost limitless. This gives cable companies a HUGE advantage moving into the future.

Anyway I recently moved to a new community that does not have access to a traditional cable provider (at least yet). It is one of those new FTTH (fiber to the home) communities. They are currently planning on using a Dish Network configuration to service the entire community (without requiring a dish on every home). Anyway I am here to learn more about Dish Network but as a long time Time Warner customer I have to say they definitely pose a very real threat to satellite companies.

[rcoleman111]

I know, last year it was 4 Thursday night and 3 Saturday night games, one of those Saturdays I was at *tada* work.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it was 5 Thursday and 3 Saturday night games. You were "off by 1". :)

[rcoleman111]

I can't watch sports on DVR, tried it with Sabres games when I went back to night shift, end up fast forwarding to get to the good parts, but miss a lot of action in between.


Games with continuous action don't lend themselves as well to DVRs. DVR watching is better suited to football than hockey.

[Steve Mehs]

Don't take this the wrong way, but it was 5 Thursday and 3 Saturday night games. You were "off by 1". :)

Oh well. :)