Envious of DirecTV's support.

[grooves12]

I was a long-time DirecTV customer, and when I moved, didn't have line of sight to DirecTV, but BARELY could get Dish Network. So, I went with them mostly because of that, and I didn't really want to pay to "beta test" the HR20 and all the problems I heard reported.

I love the stability of the Vip622... but honestly its interface is sorely lacking. It looks SEVERAL years behind the times (a decade maybe?) Updates seem to be few and far between and when they do come they are not the features WE the customers are asking for. I mean have you seen many positive endorsements of the Dish Interactive or "VOD" Television shows.

I still keep my eye on the DirecTV forums because my parents still have them and I was waiting for the HR20 to appear primetime ready before I upgrade them. It finally appears that day has come, but more importantly the DirecTV developers seem to be listening to what their customers are asking for and giving them what they want relatively quickly. The changes being made to hotpass, allowing members of the board to test the changes and give feedback before releases to the public, and seemingly implementing the features that have been most requested almost from the top of the list down. Plus, the releases are coming a LOT faster than anything we have seen from Dish Network.

I'm seriously considering doing everything I can to get my HOA to install a Community Dish on my building for Dish Network, so that I can make the switch to them if this keeps up. Anyone else feel like they are being neglected by Dish when you see the level of interaction DirecTV is giving to their power users?

[James Long]

E* will release the software when it is ready. Some of the greatest angst against the HR20 was that they were sending updates that needed updates to fix more things. L365 wasn't perfect, but it was stable. "L401" will be worth the wait. Many of D*'s corrections and additions to the HR20 were features that would have been there day one if it were an E* receiver (with day one being six months later). Receivers and updates should be released when the time is right, not just because the clock is ticking.

Given the choice, six months without an update is better than messing around with the stability of a receiver over the holidays. :)

BTW: It is an exaggeration to call E*'s interface a decade behind. Look at the 501/508/510 series if you want to see an old style interface. :D

[TechniKal]

To me, the most important feature is that the DVR reliably records as it's supposed to. If that's not there, then all the other features are pointless.

In my observations, the 622 is doing a much better job delivering on this primary requirement than the HR20.

And If D* was -really- great at listening to their customers, they'd have a mpeg-4 HD Tivo with all the HMO/Networking features enabled and I would have never had to check out a Dish 622 in the first place. Instead, they chose to ignore customer feedback and delivered the HR20.

I also don't see the issue with the interface of the 622. Sure, it's not Tivo - but it doesn't look that bad - better than the hr20, imo. The only place I feel it's really lacking is in the DVR/MyVOD list of recorded shows, which is pretty lame.

[heisman]

The 622 is a great DVR IMO. Lack of a native/pass-thru resolution setting is my only complaint. If they change that it goes in my electronics HOF. :)

[NKy.Yall]

I was a long-time DirecTV customer, and when I moved, didn't have line of sight to DirecTV, but BARELY could get Dish Network. So, I went with them mostly because of that, and I didn't really want to pay to "beta test" the HR20 and all the problems I heard reported.

I love the stability of the Vip622... but honestly its interface is sorely lacking. It looks SEVERAL years behind the times (a decade maybe?) Updates seem to be few and far between and when they do come they are not the features WE the customers are asking for. I mean have you seen many positive endorsements of the Dish Interactive or "VOD" Television shows.

I still keep my eye on the DirecTV forums because my parents still have them and I was waiting for the HR20 to appear primetime ready before I upgrade them. It finally appears that day has come, but more importantly the DirecTV developers seem to be listening to what their customers are asking for and giving them what they want relatively quickly. The changes being made to hotpass, allowing members of the board to test the changes and give feedback before releases to the public, and seemingly implementing the features that have been most requested almost from the top of the list down. Plus, the releases are coming a LOT faster than anything we have seen from Dish Network.

I'm seriously considering doing everything I can to get my HOA to install a Community Dish on my building for Dish Network, so that I can make the switch to them if this keeps up. Anyone else feel like they are being neglected by Dish when you see the level of interaction DirecTV is giving to their power users?


To each there own but I do have the HR-20 and have no problems, and I really like everything about the unit. But what service you like best and will be your choice will not be based on what others try and tell you who`s best etc. As far as your other situation goes with your HOA try and look over this link and see if it may be of some use for your cause.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

[grooves12]

To each there own but I do have the HR-20 and have no problems, and I really like everything about the unit. But what service you like best and will be your choice will not be based on what others try and tell you who`s best etc. As far as your other situation goes with your HOA try and look over this link and see if it may be of some use for your cause.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Doesn't apply to me... I live in a condominium complex, and it is wired for cable only. I have a Southwest view, whic allows me to BARELY see 110+, which means I can get Dish Network, but I can't see 101 which rules out DirecTV for me.

I'm trying to actually to get them to install community dishes for BOTH services so that our residents will hve a choice oher than comcast, as most units are not even lucky enough to have a view of Dish's satellites like I do.

I agree with the senitments regarding the stability of the HR20 and it not being ready for primetime when released, but looking over their forums the majority sentiment is that it now is, plus it has a few features that Dish doesn't, and they seem to be adding more and more regularly. Plus, the level of interaction re: the Nascar Hotpass is pretty impressive. The customers asked for a few changes, and bam they are there. That is something I wish more companies did.

As for the Tivo sentiment, I understand why DirecTV did it, they had no control over what was implemented, and to give the same features to their customers it would have cost them a lot more. The HR20 is now on the same playing field as a DirecTivo in most cases, and seems to be surpassing it in many others. The Tivo attachment was an irrational emotional argument less based on what the unit could do, and more because of some loyalty to the company. You don't see many customers that feel the same way now that the Tivo hype is wearing off and people see there are viable alternatives.

[Paul Secic]

E* will release the software when it is ready. Some of the greatest angst against the HR20 was that they were sending updates that needed updates to fix more things. L365 wasn't perfect, but it was stable. "L401" will be worth the wait. Many of D*'s corrections and additions to the HR20 were features that would have been there day one if it were an E* receiver (with day one being six months later). Receivers and updates should be released when the time is right, not just because the clock is ticking.

Given the choice, six months without an update is better than messing around with the stability of a receiver over the holidays. :)

BTW: It is an exaggeration to call E*'s interface a decade behind. Look at the 501/508/510 series if you want to see an old style interface. :D

James is right the 501 GUI is horid!

[James Long]

Plus, the level of interaction re: the Nascar Hotpass is pretty impressive. The customers asked for a few changes, and bam they are there. That is something I wish more companies did.The level of complaint on Hotpass was amazing as well. It made me wonder if everyone would cancel (or refuse to subscribe) and leave Hotpass as an unused feature. Certainly one of those "what were they thinking" moments.James is right the 501 GUI is horid!And to think that somehow that GUI will support NBR some day. :)

I still have my 501 active ... going back to it after using the 622 is like going from XP to Windows 3.1.

[harsh]

I hardly think that DirecTV should be credited for the work of Earl and the CE crew here at DBSTalk. Sure, someone at DirecTV noticed that they were substantially incapable effectively testing their product, but handing it off to the guys and gals here is hardly a sign that they have somehow stepped up.

I would also remind that many of the wizbang features of the HR20 are not supported (nor even documented) other than through the forums here.

Just wait until the DirecTV subscribers find out what a downer VOD is.

[ScoBuck]

I hardly think that DirecTV should be credited for the work of Earl and the CE crew here at DBSTalk. Sure, someone at DirecTV noticed that they were substantially incapable effectively testing their product, but handing it off to the guys and gals here is hardly a sign that they have somehow stepped up.

I would also remind that many of the wizbang features of the HR20 are not supported (nor even documented) other than through the forums here.

Just wait until the DirecTV subscribers find out what a downer VOD is.

but harsh - I've been reading your posts for over a year - you NEVER have thought DirecTv should be credited with ANYTHING good or right or on-target - so why change your negative approach anytime soon?

[DCSholtis]

but harsh - I've been reading your posts for over a year - you NEVER have thought DirecTv should be credited with ANYTHING good or right or on-target - so why change your negative approach anytime soon?

He won't ScoBuck. I don't think he's a D* sub, thats another kicker.:rolleyes:

[grooves12]

I hardly think that DirecTV should be credited for the work of Earl and the CE crew here at DBSTalk. Sure, someone at DirecTV noticed that they were substantially incapable effectively testing their product, but handing it off to the guys and gals here is hardly a sign that they have somehow stepped up.

I would also remind that many of the wizbang features of the HR20 are not supported (nor even documented) other than through the forums here.

Just wait until the DirecTV subscribers find out what a downer VOD is.

I think they should be given a HUGE credit... notmany companies are willing to do this, despite seeing the evidence in their face that it is quite effective. I mean look at the progress that is made on open source programs. For the most part, they have all the features of their pay counterparts, increased innovation, and tend to come in smaller packages.

Allowing power users to test their software before release has OVIOUSLY shortened their development cycle, because bugs are seen quicker and thus addressed quicker. If you look at the turnaround the HR20 has made from the time early releases were made available to now, it is pretty amazing. We all know that an end user that is passionate about USING the product is more likely to put it through its paces, than some internal beta tester who is likely using it at the lowest common denominator.

Maybe if Dish would take the same approach, these "last minute bugs" delaying the 4.01 release would have been found in November and it could have made it on time for its initially planned December release.

Oh, and saying the 622's interface doesn't look dated, by comparing it to another horrible interface from Dish doesn't mean anything. It should be compared to the rest of the industry. The Hughes metal line of receivers have been around a looooooooong time, and the interface of those is still a step above what Dish Currently offers. For a modern top of the line receiver it should have something a little more pleasing to the eye. I mean how hard is it to change around a color scheme ,fonts, and minimal graphics to make the top of line hardware look like it has a top of the line interface. The problem is they are trying to make it "fit in" with those horrible interfaces of its predecessors, and guess what, it still looks horrible.

Look at MCE, Moxi, SageTV, Tivo, etc, ReplayTV, BeyondTV, MythTV, and on and on.... they are all light years ahead in interface. While Dish is a step above Comcast's poor offering that is not saying much.

[Ron Barry]

Boy grooves12, sure making a lot of assumptions in terms of how E* handles their software development vs. D* in my opinion. My points below are my opinions based on my experiences....

Just a few points.

1) Quick software releases do not usually indicate quick development cycle. Actually they usually are an indication of the need to fix P1 defects that got into the wild. Some software companies release not ready for prime time software and then follow up quickly with bug fixes of critical found field issues. Not my idea of good development but companies do it.

Making the assumption that allowing power users to test the software has obviously shorten the development cycle is a large leap. If I recall from my limited browsing of the D* forum, there was a large number of releases occurring well before power users were able to preview the release.

2) Lipstick on an interface does not make the interface work any better. I live this each work day of my live. Too much focus on making it look pretty and not enough focus on making it work pretty. Usability is what matters. The 622 does have some usability issues, but overall given the task and the functionality it performs it does a good job. I have not used the D* interface so I can comment on its usability.. Looks might draw the user in, but usability is what keeps them around. Don't get me wrong. Look is important, but over time fell is what matters the most. And I can assure you, Dish's interface is not a decade behind... Perhaps E* should change the colors to bright contrasting colors, Make the fonts bigger, and place a Beta Logo on them... Heck that way they can call the 622 a web 2.0 complaint DVR. ;)

3) Earl, his fellow D* mods, and the other D* users are doing an excellent job building a strong community and providing valuable input back to D*. Kudos to them.. I am not discounting the D* community work because I actually think it is cool. However, just because you don't see this type of activity from the E* side of the fence does not mean they are not working hard at enhancing the 622 or their process is broken. Just two approaches and up and till recently D* was not taking their current approach.

If you recall, when the 622 was first released software updates were put out about one per month. This last release has been slow in coming, but so goes software. It is hard to look from this side of the fence and rationalize reasons, but given some reports for CES I am sure people could make some guesses.

Since I don't have a HR20 and don't follow that forum closely, I personally don't have a pulse on the reliability and usability of the HR20 compared to the 622. Perhaps leaps have been made.. But, the only people qualified to do such a thing would be a power user that has both and I would welcome opinions from those people. And what do they say about interfaces... Everyone has an opinion to what a good one is and to some it is a single command line. :)

Ok.. Well I am sure your opinion will differ from mine and that is cool. But personally I think you made some leaps here that I personally don't see.

[James Long]

If you recall, when the 622 was first released software updates were put out about one per month. This last release has been slow in coming, but so goes software.As a reminder, the stated reason on the Tech Chat for not making a release since last year was to avoid the holidays. Plenty of development going on (as seen from the ViP-211 notes). They just didn't take the risk of sending annoying software to paying customers at Christmas / New Years.

Now they are nearly ready to share ... perhaps some wish they had an update sooner. I'm glad to see an error on the side of caution instead of a rush to market.