Is 2009 really the end of analog TV?

[jericho]

Interesting story from the AP today. http://http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17590648/

This got me thinking. Is 2009 really the end of analog TV? Of course its the end of over the air analog for sure, but what if cable companies decided to broadcast HD programming through analog feeds on cable lines? The same for Satellite providers, what if they continued to offer analog signals of HD programs through analog receivers? Is there any law that says cable and satellite has to stop broadcasting analog?

Furthermore, couldn't network TV continue to produce analog shows for their broadcast networks as they do now? As I watch network HDTV channels now, many shows are not HD. Who says that has to change. Just curious if anyone has any insight into this.

[Earl Bonovich]

Satellite Providers are digital transmissions (always have been)... between the upload center, the SAT, and your home.

As for the Cable-Providers.
If they continue with ANALOG transmissions on their cable lines... then they could run into issues, if other entities start to use the same frequency ranges that are in their cables.

You don't "produce" and Analog show.
Analog is the tranmission method.

There is no "rule" in place, to end Standard Definition programming... for High Definition program.

It is the transmission method, that is being changed... not the content in that transmission.

[jericho]

Looks like I messed some of my terminology up. Let me rephrase my post and re-ask my question. "Is 2009 the end of Standard Def TV?". Are satellite companies and cable companies going to be required to broadcast in Hi-Def or will they be allowed to continue to use SD signals. Example, will my old Dish 501 receiver still work after Feb 2009? And will I still be able to plug in a cable line and get channels on a SD television? Also, will networks like NBC be able to produce a show in SD (such as Deal or No Deal) or will the be required to produce everything in HD?

[James Long]

"Is 2009 the end of Standard Def TV?"NO.

The mandate is to turn off over the air NTSC broadcasting (some call that analog TV).
There is absolutely NO mandate that ends "standard def" TV.
There is absolutely NO mandate that requires "high def" TV.
There is no mandate that requires closed systems (such as cable) to kill analog TV.
There is no mandate preventing you from using NTSC/analog TV within your home.
(Game systems, cameras, the old RF modulators, etc.)

As far as interference goes (in response to Earl's thought) ...
Cable is already using frequencies on their lines that have other uses. If one were to broadcast all the frequencies on cable OTA one could interfere with all sorts of two way and aviation radio, as well as with cellular telephone service. Part of the engineering of the system is to make sure those cable frequencies don't leak out of the system causing interference and that outside signals do not interfere with what is on cable.

[Stewart Vernon]

I think Earl answered that part of the question.

There has never been any mandate to force HD. The 2009 mandate is supposed to end analog broadcast TV... but says nothing about HD.

For that matter it says nothing about cable or satellite. Remaining BUD, some of which is still analog, can still be analog... and cable can use analog if they want (although they really want to go fully digital too for bandwidth reasons).

[jericho]

I would think satellite would want to go fully HD to save bandwidth. Although HD takes up more space, having HD and continuing to have SD signals uplinked too, seems like a waste to me. Do you think Dish will abandon their SD receivers in 2009?

[James Long]

E* isn't likely to abandon SD for a while. The improvements to MPEG4 gives them room for more HD (E* isn't short on bandwidth). Eventually everyone will have an MPEG4 receiver, but I doubt if it will be in 2009.

[dclaryjr]

Low powered stations are also exempt for the turn-off date (at least for now). My local Fox affiliate is such a station and they can't even apply for a digital freq until after the switchover. So there is no Fox-HD in my immediate future.

[James Long]

Low powered stations are also exempt for the turn-off date (at least for now). My local Fox affiliate is such a station and they can't even apply for a digital freq until after the switchover. So there is no Fox-HD in my immediate future.Are you sure? My local LPs have applied for companion "LD" (low power digital) channels and one of those apps has been approved (the other two are pending). Another local LP filed for permission to "flash cut" it's signal to digital and can do so at any time (unfortunately they filed for the flash cut before the companion channel window, which eliminates them from getting a companion to simulcast on).

What are the calls of the FOX affiliate? I can look it up and see what is going on.

[bidger]

I would think satellite would want to go fully HD to save bandwidth. Although HD takes up more space, having HD and continuing to have SD signals uplinked too, seems like a waste to me. Do you think Dish will abandon their SD receivers in 2009?

Multichannel providers don't create the content. That's where the broadcast networks and cable channels come in and as it stands right now, HD costs more to produce. The more fiscally strapped a channel is, the more they'll shy away from HD. Search for the threads that were started as a result of an NBC exec saying they would be looking to more reality and game shows for prime time because they didn't have to pay for actors or HD.

[robert koerner]

Sat providers will do what gets them the most in coming cash for the least out going cash.

Switching to HD only, if people aren't will to buy, or rent HD receivers and DVRs won't increase their cash flow.

Few will want to switch to HD equipment if they don't have HD monitors.

[dclaryjr]

Are you sure? My local LPs have applied for companion "LD" (low power digital) channels and one of those apps has been approved (the other two are pending). Another local LP filed for permission to "flash cut" it's signal to digital and can do so at any time (unfortunately they filed for the flash cut before the companion channel window, which eliminates them from getting a companion to simulcast on).

What are the calls of the FOX affiliate? I can look it up and see what is going on.

Here's a link to their parent company's website that explains their situation. I followed the link in the story to the FCC database and if I'm reading that correctly, they DO have their construction permit now.

http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?s=5850018

It still sounds like I won't be watching NFC football in HD for awhile. :mad:

[James Long]

Here's a link to their parent company's website that explains their situation. I followed the link in the story to the FCC database and if I'm reading that correctly, they DO have their construction permit now.Unfortunately all three of the records linked by the station are for analog stations.

The application for the digital station is under a different "facility number" on channel 22.
Links: More Information (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=168406) - Application (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101155632&formid=346&fac_num=168406) - Coverage (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=LD1155632.html)

The good news is that the application is pending. The comments on their webpage is good too ... they will be ready to go as soon as they get permission. The three years is the maximum time they have to build ... not an estimate of how long it will take.

[dclaryjr]

The good news is that the application is pending. The comments on their webpage is good too ... they will be ready to go as soon as they get permission. The three years is the maximum time they have to build ... not an estimate of how long it will take..

Thanks for the info!! Hopefully they will be up sooner than three years!

[FitzAusTex]

It took a while for Blockbuster to switch over exclusively to DVDs, but I can no longer find any VHS (just a curiosity, not to rent) in any of my local BB stores. I actually thought the complete cutover (at least in Austin, TX) happened far faster than I thought it would. I just donated my VCR to Goodwill last month. I suspect the tipping point to HD will come fast too. (although not fast enough for people on these boards (me included).

[tnsprin]

NO.

The mandate is to turn off over the air NTSC broadcasting (some call that analog TV).
There is absolutely NO mandate that ends "standard def" TV.
There is absolutely NO mandate that requires "high def" TV.
There is no mandate that requires closed systems (such as cable) to kill analog TV.
There is no mandate preventing you from using NTSC/analog TV within your home.
(Game systems, cameras, the old RF modulators, etc.)

As far as interference goes (in response to Earl's thought) ...
Cable is already using frequencies on their lines that have other uses. If one were to broadcast all the frequencies on cable OTA one could interfere with all sorts of two way and aviation radio, as well as with cellular telephone service. Part of the engineering of the system is to make sure those cable frequencies don't leak out of the system causing interference and that outside signals do not interfere with what is on cable.

And there is no guarantee that manufactures will still include an NTSC tuner in their units. Dish for example removed theirs already from their receivers. As time goes by past the broadcast change, I expect this to become more and more common.