Sky Angel Lifetime subscription changes

[Wayne]

I just noticed on Tony's Echostar Knowledge Base that Sky Angel will now be charging it's lifetime subscribers $4.99 for Fox News, HGTV, and the two Hallmark channels. Please see this link for details http://ekb.dbstalk.com/SA_Lifetime_Change.htm .

They said that programmers costs were going up and that's why they must now charge for these channels. If you are a lifetime subscriber you must send a notice back to them by April 15th to let them know you wish to start paying for these channels. Otherwise they will no longer appear in you guide after May 1st, 2007.

There was no mention of monthly subscribers being charged any more or being charged less if they no longer wanted these four channels.

They also mentioned they are still trying to negotiate with Echostar to get back the space for channels they lost last year.

I'm not a lifetime subscriber so I have no say as to what is fair for those who were promised a certain number of channels. I will say that I would subscribe again to the monthly package if they were to get the three channels back from Echostar and gave me the option not to subscribe to the 4 channels above since I get most of them from Dish anyway.

[James Long]

Since the four channels are (or will be soon for Hallmark Movie Channel) on Dish I wonder how many people are going to pony up $4.99 ... I don't know how many lifetime subs there are. SA stopped offering those subscriptions a few years ago. Some may not even be watching the service at all any more.

The biggest backlash I see is among month to month and annual subscribers who are paying twice for the channels ... once to SA and once to Dish Network. Given the choice I'd want a $9.99 "Christian only" package that drops those four channels. I doubt I am alone.

IMHO adding "secular" channels is one of SkyAngel's biggest mistakes. One of their other mistakes was getting involved with Echostar ... which served the purpose of getting them on the air in the first place (there would be no SkyAngel without that deal) but in recent years has come back to haunt them. IMHO they should have spent every day since their creation getting their own satellite and uplink center. Perhaps they have (last I heard the uplink center was actually being staffed!) but still relying on E* is a bad situation.

[Aransay]

sky anegl end moeatholci chanel only wtn is e fe
alsoof othe eleigosn and amke speil leigion and apckage

[BNUMM]

Since the four channels are (or will be soon for Hallmark Movie Channel) on Dish I wonder how many people are going to pony up $4.99 ... I don't know how many lifetime subs there are. SA stopped offering those subscriptions a few years ago. Some may not even be watching the service at all any more.

The biggest backlash I see is among month to month and annual subscribers who are paying twice for the channels ... once to SA and once to Dish Network. Given the choice I'd want a $9.99 "Christian only" package that drops those four channels. I doubt I am alone.

IMHO adding "secular" channels is one of SkyAngel's biggest mistakes. One of their other mistakes was getting involved with Echostar ... which served the purpose of getting them on the air in the first place (there would be no SkyAngel without that deal) but in recent years has come back to haunt them. IMHO they should have spent every day since their creation getting their own satellite and uplink center. Perhaps they have (last I heard the uplink center was actually being staffed!) but still relying on E* is a bad situation.

When SA added Fox News and HGTV is when I dropped Dishnetwork. Those were the two channels we watched the most and I couldn't justify $35.00/mo when I could get SA for half that. The Hallmark channels were just a bonus for me.

[TNGTony]

The monthly packages are totally unaffected. They already went up from $9 to $12 and then to $15 in short order. This is strictly for those of us who ponied up $200-$400 up front to a company whose future was highly in doubt! They did not even have broadcast license yet! We bought on faith. Be bought on the PROMISE of a company that calls itself a Christian organization that we (the risk-takers) would have a life-long subscription.... LIFE-LONG subscription
LIFE-LONG subscription. Am I making my point here?
Yes the lawyers can get involved and change the meaning of LIFE to whatever and "subscription" to whatever until it is all meaningless. So...another CHRISTIAN organization reneges on its word and SCREWS those that took the risk to help the company get some much-needed cash up front.

I am still alive (as far as I can tell) but my LIFE-LONG subscription is gone.

Anyway, since I am also a Dish Network everything pack sub, I will be getting all these channels from them and not Sky Angel.

See ya
Tony

Do I sound bitter?

[James Long]

Do I sound bitter?You sound like a guy named "justalurker" that first met you on usenet when I was that bitter about SkyAngel's antics (and failure to perform as a "real" DBS provider). :)

I subscribed for one year ... March 2005 through 2006. I bailed when they raised the rates and dropped religious programming for secular. The later loss of channels due to E*'s satellite problems sealed the deal.

When I had it my favorite channel was SpiritTV ... I wanted a CCM music video channel. I also remember seeing Worship TV at college and thought it would be a nice 'background' channel (I ended up watching Spirit more than anything). I didn't like TVU's style of music.

The only positive addition I recall was the addition of Salem's "America's Talk Satellite Network".

BTW: I didn't leave specifically because of SkyAngel's antics (and I didn't approve of those antics before I signed up in 2005). I just found that I wasn't watching enough to make the service worthwhile.

BTW2: IF SkyAngel was savvy enough to offer a $9.99 non-secular package I may consider signing up again. Especially with an annual discount. :)

[Wayne]

I think I have a solution that could make everyone happy if Sky Angel and Dish could work together for the good of both of their subscribers. I know it's a big IF and I may not understand completely how the technology works or how contracts work with the programmers but here it goes.

Sky Angel needs to drop 6 channels to make room for 6 new Christian only channels (like JCTV, NRB, 3ABN, etc.) . This would make their Lifetime subscribers very happy because they would be getting what was originally promised - Christian only programming with no additional costs.

The channels they need to drop are those that are already on Dish (Angel One, TBN, Fox News, HGTV, and the 2 Hallmark channels).

Then Dish could remap these 6 channels back to their old Sky Angel locations (in the 9700's) for those who have a Dish 500.

So here's the specifics for each case (please correct me if I have anything wrong):

Sky Angel Christian only programming with 61.5 only dish: They would lose 2 Christian channels (Angel One and TBN) but gain 6 new Christian channels.

Sky Angel Christian and Sky Angel secular (Fox, HGTV, & the 2 Hallmark channels) programming with 61.5 only dish: They would lose 2 Christian channels (Angel One and TBN) and the 4 secular channels but would gain 6 new Christian channels and would not have to pay the $4.99 for the secular channels unless they add a Dish 500 and pay the $4.99 fee.

Sky Angel Christian only programming with 61.5 dish and Dish 500: They would not lose any Christian channels they have now and would gain 8 new Christian channels (the 6 new channels to be determined plus Daystar and EWTN from the 119 and 110 satellite locations that the Dish 500 could get and that Dish would remap down to the 9700's).

Sky Angel Christian and Sky Angel secular programming with 61.5 dish and Dish 500: Same as above but would pay an extra $4.99 for the 4 secular channels.

Sky Angel Christian only programming and Dish Family programming: They would not lose any Christian programming but gain 6 new Christian channels and still have Fox News and the 2 Hallmark channels.

Sky Angel Christian only and Dish AT100 programming: They would not lose any Christian programming but gain 6 new Christian channels. They would no longer receive Fox News and the 2 Hallmark channels but would retain HGTV. They too could buy the $4.99 secular pak from Sky Angel if they wished and get back Fox News and the Hallmark channels.

Sky Angel Christian only and Dish AT200 programming: They would not lose any Christian programming but gain 6 new Christian channels. They would retain Fox News, HGTV, and the Hallmark channel. They would not longer have Hallmark Movie Channel.

Sky Angel Christian only and Dish AT250 and above programming: They would not lose any Christian programming but will gain 6 new Christian channels and would retain all 4 secular channels they had with Sky Angel with no $4.99 fee.

I know that some people would have to buy a Dish 500 (which may be an issue) and Sky Angel would have to offer a monthly package that is for Christian only programming, but I think it could work if everyone would try to make it happen.

In this scenario Dish wouldn't have to give back the transponder that was lost on the 61.5 satellite but would have to be willing to remap down 8 channels (TBN, Daystar, EWTN, Angel One, Fox News, HGTV, and the 2 Hallmark Channels) to the 9700's. Maybe Sky Angel could give them a small fee for their trouble. Of course Sky Angel and Dish would have to have the proper contracts signed with all of the programmers as well.

I for one would re-subscribe to Sky Angel at a lower monthly fee for the Christian only programming and it would keep my Dish subscription secure. Right now I'm tempted to go to DirecTV because of more Christian channels (especially the NRB channel).

What do you think? Can they work together and is this scenario even possible?

[James Long]

What do you think? Can they work together ...The short answer is no. I am surprised that SkyAngel has not taken Echostar to court over the transponder failure issue (win or not). The last case I know about was when SkyAngel forced the removal of "Educating Everyone", "FamilyNet" and "Daystar" from the E* service because they are religious channels. Apparently the lease deal they struck with E* for use of EchoStar 3 at 61.5° prohibited E* from adding religious channels. Now that SkyAngel has added non-religious channels and E* has returned Daystar to the air and added the Spanish language "AlmaVision" religious network perhaps that prohibition is gone.

While there obviously was a spirit of cooperation back in the day that E* helped launch SkyAngel (E* providing use of their satellites in exchange for the use of SA transponder licenses) it appears that cooperation is now at a contract level ... not very friendly.

I'd like to see a cooperative package between E* and SA but I don't expect one.

[CornChex]

I bought a lifetime subscription to Skyangel many years ago, and I think I paid about $300 for it. This past week I received one of the letters concerning the loss of the four channels. I am not really worried about it, since I already receive those channels on E*.

But, here is what I am wondering about: What will happen if I don't return my letter? I don't know why, but I feel like SA is asking me to sign my rights away or something.

[James Long]

But, here is what I am wondering about: What will happen if I don't return my letter? I don't know why, but I feel like SA is asking me to sign my rights away or something.If you elect not to receive the four special secular channels, do not respond, or do not remit the service charge when billed, you will no longer receive the four channels after May 1, 2007.It doesn't say that you can opt in at a later date (if that is your concern). It also doesn't say that getting the secular channels for $4.99 is a limited time offer.

The request for smartcard information is a concern:Accurate recording and timely return of the information requested on the Information Update and Billing Request will enable Sky Angel to determine information necessary for the providing of uninterrupted service to you after May 1, 2007 regardless of your decision as to the secular special channels.I would take this as a "respond now or else" for possibly losing the service. Not good.

[CornChex]

The request for smartcard information is a concern:I would take this as a "respond now or else" for possibly losing the service. Not good.

When you say "losing the service" do you mean permanently losing ALL of the SA channels?

I guess that what worries me is that it seems like right now SA doesn't have a clue what satellite box I am using, and that if I send them a smart card number they will only honor my SA lifelong subscription for as long as the box I have now is still working!

Do you think that is possible? Why do you think they are asking for smart card numbers?
Does the letter strike any of you as being a bit "fishy"?

[James Long]

Fishing for information to keep your service working? I wonder how well their recordkeeping works. Apparently they have good enough records to generate a letter to "lifetime" subscribers. They should have record of your receiver/smart card. Perhaps they are concerned that there are receivers out there that won't lose the secular channels? (I haven't looked at the authorization codes in a while but it seems that the easiest thing to do would be create a new code for the secular channel and only activate that for monthly/annual and now $4.99/mo lifetime customers who opt in. It would save the audit.)

Fishy but not phishy. :) I don't see why you can't trust them with the information.

[Wayne]

When you say "losing the service" do you mean permanently losing ALL of the SA channels? ... Do you think that is possible? Why do you think they are asking for smart card numbers?

I don't think you will permanently lose all of the SA channels until the satellite at 61.5 fails completely (which that may only be a few years away).

As for asking for the smart card numbers I think SA is going to turn off the 4 secular channels for all lifetime subscribers. Then as they get the letters back stating that a lifetime subscriber wants the 4 secular channels then and only then will they turn them back on. In order to turn them back on they must have your receiver and smart card information. By signing the letter you also give them permission to bill you $4.99 a month for those 4 channels.

[Wayne]

The short answer is no. ... I'd like to see a cooperative package between E* and SA but I don't expect one.

Thanks for replying to my question.

I know the lawsuit between the two actually hurst Sky Angel more than it helped. I remember thinking at the time that it was a bad decision by Robert Johnson. I was hoping that Robert Johnson Jr. might be able to negotiate with Dish better than his father. Maybe he's run into the same problems and might have to file a lawsuit over that failed transponder as well.

It would just be nice if everyone thought of the customer first. Television providers need to be sensitive to why people pick one provider over another. It could be over the number of quality Christian channels (or lack thereof) or it could be over family channels, sports channels, movie channels, costs, picture quality, etc. The point is that every subscriber will be hard fought over and providers need to look for easy solutions (like the one I proposed above) to keep them as a subscriber.

[MellowYBird]

I'm a monthly subscriber and I didn't appreciate the addition of the "special secular" channels. My subscription went from $11.99 to $15.99, no choice, so these "special" channels are blocked and I'm paying for them. I'm not complaining about the price, Sky Angel is the best compared to other packages on cable or satellite as far as family-friendly programming and ?commercials? (questionable).
I just cannot believe that Robert Johnson Jr., the son of Robert Johnson the founder of Sky Angel, would do this to his father. Did he dislike his father a great deal or was this really his father's vision- "to become "secular" and like the world"? I did a great deal of research on the programming & company before I subscribed and I did not get that impression. I honestly thought it was too good to be true, almost a prayer come true. I find it so sad that there are well over 100 immoral & secular channels to watch and subscribe to and I don't even know how few moral or Christian channels there are out there, yet people still want to interfere with the "good". It's bad enough a family cannot sit down and watch a sporting event on a local channel without a remote in hand, let alone, not be able to watch a Christian satellite service anymore. Would it really be that awful to let the Christian service be strictly Christian & moral? It's not like we have a whole lot of packages or channels to choose from, do we?

~MYB~

[quiverof8]

[QUOTE=TNGTony;887522]The monthly packages are totally unaffected. They already went up from $9 to $12 and then to $15 in short order. This is strictly for those of us who ponied up $200-$400 up front to a company whose future was highly in doubt! They did not even have broadcast license yet! We bought on faith. Be bought on the PROMISE of a company that calls itself a Christian organization that we (the risk-takers) would have a life-long subscription...

I totally agree with you. I am still hoping that someone will turn up a video of the founder advertising how all future channels would be included, never have to pay again etc. also the lifetime agreement should clarify this matter if anyone has theirs.

furthermore, if someone were to legaly challenge this "special package" I don't think sky angel hs a leg to stand on. the reason I say this is that there is no division of packages for monthly or yearly subscribers. They would need to have a basic and specials option even then they still violate what was offered to lifetimers.

If lifetimers pay now it will only get worse. We will never get another channel for free!

personally am looking into glorystar, its free too!

[quiverof8]

They are violating so many of their original beliefs, statements it not even funny! first of all, what happened to CHRISTIAN? They keep losing Christian stations and adding secular?! Familyland is talking of leaving too!

They were supposed to be a ministry, not a business concerned with making a profit. for someone who is losing $ they have sure been investing in property (fl and tn)

furthermore they stated that lifetime subscribers would have all future channels included at no extra charge (which they have hnored over the past 10 yrs or so). Now they have added channels(for over a year) they want to take away unless we now pay for them. not even all subscribers though, just the lifetimers!

someone didn't do their job properly if they didn't realize how much it would cost them in advance.

they are REFUSING to let monthly subscribers drop the "special 4". they are also not planning to charge them $4.99 therefore there really is no basic/special tier as they are implying.

[FTA Michael]

Browsing around the internet archive, I couldn't find any reference to "all future channels". But there was this:

"Become a Sky Angel subscriber. Simply pay a one-time, lifelong activation fee of just $295.00. That's it! No other hidden costs or monthly subscription bills."

http://web.archive.org/web/19990202230009/www.skyangel.com/page6.html

[TNGTony]

I posted that earlier in another thread. Now one thing we are all forgetting (I include myself in this), at the time the lifetime subscriptions were being sold, Sky Angel had two "Bob Jones University" home school channels that WERE NOT part of the lifetime subscription! I wish I would have kept the original agreement... Oh..wait, they never sent me an agreement!!! They just took my money and said "bless you"!

See ya
Tony

[James Long]

Although it seems to be echoing in the tone of voice that Whoopee Goldberg used in "Sister Act" when it sounded like the word "bless" was a euphemism.

I'm sure they meant "may God bless you" at the time. :)

[TimL]

Browsing around the internet archive, I couldn't find any reference to "all future channels". But there was this:

"Become a Sky Angel subscriber. Simply pay a one-time, lifelong activation fee of just $295.00. That's it! No other hidden costs or monthly subscription bills."

http://web.archive.org/web/19990202230009/www.skyangel.com/page6.html



Good find Michael..

I left SA a few years ago when they dropped BBN and later Gospel Music television. The stations they dropped always appeared to be replaced with less conservative alternatives. I knew I would not agree with all of Sky Angel's channels when I got the service. I definitely disagree with adding the secular channels. They are unneccessary and take away from the Sky Angel Ministry..

[jci-joe]

I guess I am confused by some of the comments here about Sky Angel. For one thing, when we all purchased the lifetime subs, there were not secular channels nor promises of adding them. The purpose was to provide Christian programming and that is what we bought. We are still getting Christian programming with no additional charges. I am disappointed about losing Spirit but this was due to Dish not SA.

Finally, I think most of us who purchased this hopefully see this more as a ministry and less of a business. I feel that I got a great buy for a lifetime membership for $295 for the past 9-10 years. If I lost it today, it was still a great deal.

I pray this service continues on for many years as it has blessed me and my family and many others with the great programming.

[James Long]

To me it is more of a sadness that SkyAngel decided to set their mission aside and force secular channels on their monthly and annual subscribers. The other issues of not launching their own satellite and uplink have led to the loss of channels from their system ... perhaps they added subscribers by adding the secular channels to the lineup ... but they lost subscribers as well.

Yes, you got your money's worth for $295 ... I wish everyone had the choice to drop the secular channels and buy just the religious SkyAngel service. If SkyAngel split those channels off of the monthly/annual service they would probably find a lot of customers dropping them and a few lost customers returning.

SkyAngel has the potential to be better ... a better ministry more true to it's mission. That's what makes these changes sad.

[kbuente]

I'm a monthly subscriber and I didn't appreciate the addition of the "special secular" channels. My subscription went from $11.99 to $15.99, no choice, so these "special" channels are blocked and I'm paying for them. ~MYB~


I just signed up with Sky Angel and it's only $14.99 per month and I got 2 free months out of the sign-up.

I enjoy what I've seen and heard...although wouldn't "All Worship" be cool if it was in HD?

[MellowYBird]

I agree with James Long-

"SkyAngel has the potential to be better ... a better ministry more true to it's mission. That's what makes these changes sad."

You are correct, kbuente, I believe it is $14.99. I was thinking $15 (after taxes & such), sorry, I did not mean to misquote the price.

~MYB~

[kbuente]

I found it funny that one of the Sky Angel channel's The Guardian Network carries "The A-Team".

Granted Mr. T is a Christian and I've seen him talk about following Christ on many shows but I'm not sure that all the shooting, even if you really don't see any bloodshed, is what we want in Christian programming....

I think I need to join their advisory board.

[James Long]

Unfortunately "The Advisory Board" only answers questions that it is asked. As with any service, a polite email or letter (put it on paper!) to SkyAngel with your concerns would be appropriate. SkyAngel doesn't control the content of the channels it picks up.

[kbuente]

Unfortunately "The Advisory Board" only answers questions that it is asked. As with any service, a polite email or letter (put it on paper!) to SkyAngel with your concerns would be appropriate. SkyAngel doesn't control the content of the channels it picks up.

True, but they do control the channels that they use.

[James Long]

They didn't drop FoxNews after hearing complaints about the content of the stories (sex, drugs and crime). :)

[HDTVFanAtic]

They are violating so many of their original beliefs, statements it not even funny! first of all, what happened to CHRISTIAN? They keep losing Christian stations and adding secular?! Familyland is talking of leaving too!

They were supposed to be a ministry, not a business concerned with making a profit. for someone who is losing $ they have sure been investing in property (fl and tn)

furthermore they stated that lifetime subscribers would have all future channels included at no extra charge (which they have hnored over the past 10 yrs or so). Now they have added channels(for over a year) they want to take away unless we now pay for them. not even all subscribers though, just the lifetimers!

someone didn't do their job properly if they didn't realize how much it would cost them in advance.

they are REFUSING to let monthly subscribers drop the "special 4". they are also not planning to charge them $4.99 therefore there really is no basic/special tier as they are implying.

Whenever a "religous" organization offers you a lifetime deal for a set price, if you haven't learned the lesson many times before, be it Jim Baker and PTL or countless others, only a fool would take it as legit.

I've seen too many things in my life first hand from the supposed "best" to ignore the money making machine that is organized religion today.

[MellowYBird]

I found it funny that one of the Sky Angel channel's The Guardian Network carries "The A-Team".

That and half the other shows & commercials that GTN carries. Sky Angel does not answer my emails, or send any Sky Angel information to me anymore, but when they did and I asked about programming content, they directed me to the stations contact information, it was basically "out of their hands".

~MYB~

[Michael P]

They are violating so many of their original beliefs, statements it not even funny! first of all, what happened to CHRISTIAN? They keep losing Christian stations and adding secular?! Familyland is talking of leaving too!

They were supposed to be a ministry, not a business concerned with making a profit. for someone who is losing $ they have sure been investing in property (fl and tn)

furthermore they stated that lifetime subscribers would have all future channels included at no extra charge (which they have hnored over the past 10 yrs or so). Now they have added channels(for over a year) they want to take away unless we now pay for them. not even all subscribers though, just the lifetimers!

someone didn't do their job properly if they didn't realize how much it would cost them in advance.

they are REFUSING to let monthly subscribers drop the "special 4". they are also not planning to charge them $4.99 therefore there really is no basic/special tier as they are implying.
Where did you hear about Familyland leaving SA? They are the reason I bought a lifetime subscription to begin with.

I have no problem with SA putting the 4 secular channels "in the red" since I get most of them in my AT-200 pack (especially now that Hallmark Channel has been moved down to AT-200). I was not impressed with HMC - too many commercials and the movies were far from blockbusters.

I do remember the Bob Jones home schooling channels being in the red when I first purchsed SA lifetime.

SA needs to allow monthly subs to drop the secular 4 since they are doing it for us lifetimers.

I found it odd that they wanted our smart card numbers. Mine has changed numerous times due to 921 failures. E* has handled the changeovers which included the SA service. Does this mean in the future I have to call SA whenever I change receivers?

[mrjosh]

You could do what I did. I decided I was done with Sky Angel and just stopped paying them. As luck would have it, something got screwed up with my Dish Network account which prevented Sky Angel from ever being able to cancel my service...something about a lost smart card number. Now, I've had Sky Angel for over a year and have never paid a single cent.

I too though am looking into Glory Star...though, I don't want to lose my TVU, so I might keep my FREE SA around while I can and just add Glorystar.

[mrjosh]

Where did you hear about Familyland leaving SA? They are the reason I bought a lifetime subscription to begin with.

I have no problem with SA putting the 4 secular channels "in the red" since I get most of them in my AT-200 pack (especially now that Hallmark Channel has been moved down to AT-200). I was not impressed with HMC - too many commercials and the movies were far from blockbusters.

I do remember the Bob Jones home schooling channels being in the red when I first purchsed SA lifetime.

SA needs to allow monthly subs to drop the secular 4 since they are doing it for us lifetimers.

I found it odd that they wanted our smart card numbers. Mine has changed numerous times due to 921 failures. E* has handled the changeovers which included the SA service. Does this mean in the future I have to call SA whenever I change receivers?

Spirit Television on their website has announced that they will be returning to SA on May 2nd to channel 9717, currently held by Familyland. .

[He Save Dave]

Spirit Television on their website has announced that they will be returning to SA on May 2nd to channel 9717, currently held by Familyland. .

I came here to look into Skyangel because One of my favorite stations is JCTV (a TBN simulcast) which shows Christian music videos. But I can't get a good signal with my antenna. I was hoping Skyangel had something similar. On the skyangel website it shows this when describing Spirit TV:

"Airing nightly on KTV-Kids & Teens Television/Sky Angel Channel 9703 from 9pm ET to 7am ET (6pm PT to 4am PT), SPIRIT features the best hits from yesterday and today with music videos"

So does that mean the channel is only on during those hours? I'm not quite understanding how that works. I'd really love to have a Christian Music channel. Thanks all.

[mrjosh]

I came here to look into Skyangel because One of my favorite stations is JCTV (a TBN simulcast) which shows Christian music videos. But I can't get a good signal with my antenna. I was hoping Skyangel had something similar. On the skyangel website it shows this when describing Spirit TV:

"Airing nightly on KTV-Kids & Teens Television/Sky Angel Channel 9703 from 9pm ET to 7am ET (6pm PT to 4am PT), SPIRIT features the best hits from yesterday and today with music videos"

So does that mean the channel is only on during those hours? I'm not quite understanding how that works. I'd really love to have a Christian Music channel. Thanks all.

Last year when one of their transponders went down, Spirit was one of the channels they lost. In order to keep Spirit on, Sky Angel has had KTV sharing the channel with Spirit. Spirit is now saying that they will be returning 24/7 to Sky Angel on May 2nd. Whether or not Familyland is going to continue on another channel remains a mystery. For now though, if you like Spirit, wait til May 2nd, and you can watch it anytime on channel 9717.

Also, keep in mind that TVU also plays music videos (currently channel 9705) and has a lot more of the artists played by JCTV than Spirit does. Check them out at their website which is tvulive .com.

[James Long]

http://spirittelevision.com/watch.php is where the announcement is on their website.

[mrjosh]

They have a banner for it on their homepage as well.

[James Long]

Ad blocker ... missed that. :D

[He Save Dave]

So the skyangel info is the old info. Cool. Gonna have to give skyangel a try then. Thanks all!

[kbuente]

You could do what I did. I decided I was done with Sky Angel and just stopped paying them. As luck would have it, something got screwed up with my Dish Network account which prevented Sky Angel from ever being able to cancel my service...something about a lost smart card number. Now, I've had Sky Angel for over a year and have never paid a single cent.

I too though am looking into Glory Star...though, I don't want to lose my TVU, so I might keep my FREE SA around while I can and just add Glorystar.

When I previously dropped SA due to a neighbor's tree blocking line of sight, I had a remaining balance 2 years ago. They never came after me or sent the lynch mob after me.....but a month ago when I re-joined (since E* gave me access to 61.5 again to get HD) I had to pay that 2 months' worth of bills.

All of this to say---be careful even if you aren't getting bills because there maybe a balance due. On the other hand, if you truly did cancel with SA and E* couldn't follow through I guess you're lucky. I'd pay it instead as extra tithes.

[HDTVFanAtic]

---Quote (Originally by mrjosh)---
You could do what I did. I decided I was done with Sky Angel and just stopped paying them. As luck would have it, something got screwed up with my Dish Network account which prevented Sky Angel from ever being able to cancel my service...something about a lost smart card number. Now, I've had Sky Angel for over a year and have never paid a single cent.

I too though am looking into Glory Star...though, I don't want to lose my TVU, so I might keep my FREE SA around while I can and just add Glorystar.
---End Quote---

Now that's the Christian Spirit!

[tsrk30]

"You could do what I did. I decided I was done with Sky Angel and just stopped paying them. As luck would have it, something got screwed up with my Dish Network account which prevented Sky Angel from ever being able to cancel my service...something about a lost smart card number. Now, I've had Sky Angel for over a year and have never paid a single cent".
Yes it is great to see that the Christian programming has helped you become an honest person who would not steal.

This may sound like a really unbelievable idea:
Pick up the phone and call sky angel and let them know that you are receiving their programming without paying for it. But that is probably not something a person who watches Christian TV would do.

Hey kids come in here and watch this godly programming that is not filled with all kind of immoral behavior.

Hey I hear that if you want a new TV you can get one really cheap if you sneak into a circuit city store around midnight. Hey, if you have a family you could take them and they could help so you can all rush home, hook it and watch the programming you are not paying for either.

[mrjosh]

"You could do what I did. I decided I was done with Sky Angel and just stopped paying them. As luck would have it, something got screwed up with my Dish Network account which prevented Sky Angel from ever being able to cancel my service...something about a lost smart card number. Now, I've had Sky Angel for over a year and have never paid a single cent".
Yes it is great to see that the Christian programming has helped you become an honest person who would not steal.

This may sound like a really unbelievable idea:
Pick up the phone and call sky angel and let them know that you are receiving their programming without paying for it. But that is probably not something a person who watches Christian TV would do.

Hey kids come in here and watch this godly programming that is not filled with all kind of immoral behavior.

Hey I hear that if you want a new TV you can get one really cheap if you sneak into a circuit city store around midnight. Hey, if you have a family you could take them and they could help so you can all rush home, hook it and watch the programming you are not paying for either.

I did try to call them...they told me that my account no longer existed and that they showed a 38 dollar balance that had "been taken care of". This was about 2 months ago. 14.99 times 8 or 9 months is way more than 38 dollars....I told them I was still receiving a signal, they told me it was impossible. Then they asked if I would like to resubscribe.

I told them I haven't lost my service and i wasn't currently interested in resubscribing. They said again "we have no record of you currently receiving programing." I asked if maybe it was because I switched receivers. They told me they would have caught that error.

Originally, when I tried to cancel (before I stopped paying) they said okay but continued to bill me. Then the bills stopped coming but the service continued (and the new channels were added also). Don't know what to do now. They still claim they have no record of me receiving programming. I contacted Dish, but they told me they have not received any word from Sky Angel to cancel my account.

[quiverof8]

They said they are looking into other ways to reach us. Hope that will be glorystar as that is where I am headed at this point!

[quiverof8]

bbbonline.com (fastest way to file complaint) preserve your rights now as 5/1 is rapidly approaching!!!

Snail mail:
BBB of West Florida, Inc.
(Clearwater, FL)
2653 McCormick Drive
Clearwater, FL 33759
Phone: (727)535-5522
Fax: (727)539-6301

Web: bbbwestflorida.org


I would email them a copy of your complaint. BBB will mail them one but it may take up to a month to get an answer.


Also be advised that skyangel has now contacted SOME of those who complained to BBB and made them a "ridiculous offer". do NOT sign it. they are offering to wave the $4.99 fee for the 4 channels IF you sign a paper waiving your lifetime contract rights to any future channels! I will post a copy of this if I can get a hold of one.

YOUr lifetime agreement guaranteed you minimum of 32 channels and any channels added at no additional charge. In legal terms this is breach of contract. don't give up your right to what you are already entitled and in fact already paid for!

You may want to include some or all of the following infor below:

Section 4 of lifetime agreement:

4.) The primary source of funding for the Dominion DBS Television and Radio System is expected to come from individual subscribers paying either an ongoing monthly subscription fee or by prepaying a lump-sum subscription for a period of years, During the first 30 months of operation DVS offered lifelong subscriptions for a one-time payment which is being discontinued for any new subscribers, For those who purchased the lifelong subscription it will last for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky y Angel domestic U,S, DBS service and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse without any further monthly subscription fees and includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion, Once a lifelong subscription is activated to receive Sky Angel programming it is non-assignable and non-transferable, As you can see I am guaranteed NO further fee and a minimum of 32 channels. SA will clearly be in violation on both counts.

Your Desired Resolution:
I want any and all channels removed from lifetime subscribers including myself restored, effective immediately at NO COST. There will be NO modification of my original agreement in order to receive those channels. Furthermore I expect to receive a minimum of 32 channels as per the lifetime agreement. In addition I expect compensation for each day my service was turned off. I also want a signed statement from sky angel that they will cease forevermore all efforts to breach my contract.

[HDTVFanAtic]

YOUr lifetime agreement guaranteed you minimum of 32 channels and any channels added at no additional charge. In legal terms this is breach of contract. don't give up your right to what you are already entitled and in fact already paid for!

You may want to include some or all of the following infor below:

Section 4 of lifetime agreement:

4.) The primary source of funding for the Dominion DBS Television and Radio System is expected to come from individual subscribers paying either an ongoing monthly subscription fee or by prepaying a lump-sum subscription for a period of years, During the first 30 months of operation DVS offered lifelong subscriptions for a one-time payment which is being discontinued for any new subscribers, For those who purchased the lifelong subscription it will last for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky y Angel domestic U,S, DBS service and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse without any further monthly subscription fees and includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion, Once a lifelong subscription is activated to receive Sky Angel programming it is non-assignable and non-transferable, As you can see I am guaranteed NO further fee and a minimum of 32 channels. SA will clearly be in violation on both counts.

Your Desired Resolution:
I want any and all channels removed from lifetime subscribers including myself restored, effective immediately at NO COST. There will be NO modification of my original agreement in order to receive those channels. Furthermore I expect to receive a minimum of 32 channels as per the lifetime agreement. In addition I expect compensation for each day my service was turned off. I also want a signed statement from sky angel that they will cease forevermore all efforts to breach my contract.

Call me stupid, but the paragraph above states they could give you at their discretion 32 radio channels only and cut off all your TV stations and still not be in violation of their agreement.

Where do you even read in that paragraph that you should get all newly added channels as well - or anything over 32 channels?

[Ext 721]

The other question is: why fox news? I don't recall it being any more "christian" than any other news network.

[James Long]

Fox News is generally more acceptable among conservatives ... the cliche of "conservative Christian" would lead SkyAngel to sell a "conservative" news channel as part of their service.

[MellowYBird]

Fox News is definitely NOT Christian. If it's considered "conservative", I'd hate to see a news channel that is not "conservative".

~MYB~

[James Long]

Ah, the difference between conservative as a political label and conservative as a way of life!1 : PRESERVATIVE
2 a : of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism : as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE
3 a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners <a conservative suit>
4 : of, relating to, or practicing Conservative Judaism
source (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conservative)Not all of these would apply to Fox News or Sky Angel. :)

[Jashobeam]

We get the survey emails and requested FoxNews and a few other secular information channels (History Channel, etc.). I agree FoxNews is not Christian, but it is conservative. Where we live we can only pickup a few channels, so Sky Angel is about the only thing we watch. We do not subscribe to cable or any other satellite programming or any local papers, so Fox is our main source of news. I do also like the addition HGTV, though we don't often watch Hallmark or Hallmark Movie Channels. I am not Catholic, but do hate to see FamilyLand being taken off. We will watch Spirit, but I feel that channel could be put to greater use.

My in-laws are lifetime subscribers and haven't watched Sky Angel in years. They still watch FoxNews and HGTV, but on their other satellite. I remember when we used to visit my in-laws and they bragged about the education channels. I wish we had those now!

[Michael P]

Well I filled out the questionnaire, sent it in well before April 15th. I told them I'm not interested in the secular channels (I get them on E*). As of last night the only change was the loss of Familyland and the return of Spirit. FNC, H&GTV, and the 2 Hallmarks still show up in the gray. Granted, I'm having a probelm with my 61.6 dish (out of alignment due to soft ground around the pole mount - I'm only receiving odd transponders).

For those of you that agreed to pay for the secular channels, I wonder how you will be billed (as in separate bill from SA or a part of the E* statement)? For those that said no to the secular, are they now in the red for you or did they disappear altogether from the EPG?

[joetex]

I responded in the survey that I was not interested in subscribing to the 4 channels (Fox News, Home and Garden, Hallmark and Hallmark movie channel) and as of 5/4, I still have them.

Wish they would bring back Golden Eagle!!!

[TNGTony]

Shhh...

[Michael P]

I still have the "secular" channels too. They can get rid of them, they are a duplication to what I get from E*. And while they are at it, give me my Familyland back!!!!!!!

[jci-joe]

I am not subsribing to the Skyanel securlar channels but they are still on. Anyone know when the cutoff date will be?

[TNGTony]

When they can figure out how to do it without triggering the volley of law suits waiting to happen the instant they do?

See ya
Tony

[HDTVFanAtic]

When they can figure out how to do it without triggering the volley of law suits waiting to happen the instant they do?

See ya
Tony


Post #47 in this thread covers that.

[CornChex]

I read Post # 47, and I didn't understand how this gives an answer of when SA lifetime subscribers will lose the 4 additional channels, or how SA will head off a lawsuit. :confused:

Let me add, I am not saying that the answer is not there, but that I don't understand.

Could somebody explain?

thanks for your time....

[sansha]

So far as I can see, Sky Angel has the right to add or drop channels as they choose, as long as they provide the minimum they say they will. This is no different than Dish dropping Lifetime movie network or any of the other channels that demanded more than Dish wanted to spend to carry them. I don't see where anyone has the right to file a lawsuit. Dropping channels that become too expensive to carry or shuffling them around in packages, or asking for an increase is standard in cable/dish packages. True the lifetime subbers to sky angel (of which I'm one) don't have to pay any increases, but that doesn't mean that once sky angel adds a channel they have to keep it. So long as they provide the minimum, the lineup is up to them. I agree with the poster who said they could provide all audio/radio channels and still keep the contract.

If I wanted those channels, I'd pay the extra fee, but I already get them in the top 250 on dish, so paying the extra is not an issue for me.

[HDTVFanAtic]

I read Post # 47, and I didn't understand how this gives an answer of when SA lifetime subscribers will lose the 4 additional channels, or how SA will head off a lawsuit. :confused:

Let me add, I am not saying that the answer is not there, but that I don't understand.

Could somebody explain?

thanks for your time....

Section 4 of the lifetime agreement contract looks very simple to me


YOUr lifetime agreement guaranteed you minimum of 32 channels and any channels added at no additional charge. In legal terms this is breach of contract. don't give up your right to what you are already entitled and in fact already paid for!

You may want to include some or all of the following infor below:

Section 4 of lifetime agreement:

4.) The primary source of funding for the Dominion DBS Television and Radio System is expected to come from individual subscribers paying either an ongoing monthly subscription fee or by prepaying a lump-sum subscription for a period of years, During the first 30 months of operation DVS offered lifelong subscriptions for a one-time payment which is being discontinued for any new subscribers, For those who purchased the lifelong subscription it will last for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky y Angel domestic U,S, DBS service and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse without any further monthly subscription fees and includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion, Once a lifelong subscription is activated to receive Sky Angel programming it is non-assignable and non-transferable, As you can see I am guaranteed NO further fee and a minimum of 32 channels. SA will clearly be in violation on both counts.

Your Desired Resolution:
I want any and all channels removed from lifetime subscribers including myself restored, effective immediately at NO COST. There will be NO modification of my original agreement in order to receive those channels. Furthermore I expect to receive a minimum of 32 channels as per the lifetime agreement. In addition I expect compensation for each day my service was turned off. I also want a signed statement from sky angel that they will cease forevermore all efforts to breach my contract.

again, the important section:

"includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion"

Dominion could give a lifetime sub 32 radio channels and cut off all your tv channels and not be in violation according to that contract - as long as they give a lifetime sub 32 channels in total - the channels are selected AT THEIR SOLE DISCRETION according to the posted contracted.

Thus, if they are giving you more than 32 channels, they have more than fullfilled their legal obligation - no matter what other intent was implied as that what is in the legally binding contract.

[TNGTony]

If you what to get technical then, I could claim that the contract calls for 64 channels and they have been in violation of the agreement from the start!

"includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion"

There is not an "or" there. There is an "and"

By extension that could be interpreted to mean 32 Radio AND 32 TV channels.

:)

Two can play the misinterpretation of the spirit of the agreement game!

See ya
Tony

[HDTVFanAtic]

If you what to get technical then, I could claim that the contract calls for 64 channels and they have been in violation of the agreement from the start!

"includes a minimum of 32 television and radio channels selected at Dominion's sole discretion"

There is not an "or" there. There is an "and"

By extension that could be interpreted to mean 32 Radio AND 32 TV channels.

:)

Two can play the misinterpretation of the spirit of the agreement game!

See ya
Tony


In all due respect, if that is what you think it means, you would be well advised to have lawyer look over any contract you sign and not leave it up to how you think the law reads.

As there were not 32 radio channels and not even 32 television stations supplied when the agreement was signed (or now), it would be impossible to interpret it in the way you stated - and you should have voided the contract at that time if you had any problem with it.

There is a very clear meaning to the phrase - not as you say "could be interpreted to mean" - and it would hold up in any court of law.

[TNGTony]

The meaning is only as clear as long as the parties agree to the meaning or if it is clearly and unambiguously defined. The meaning is not clearly or unabiguaously difined on the contract. So if the position is you can claim that since the original state of things were 16 radio and 16 TV channels for a total of 32 channels and this is what the line in the contract means; and they can change the TV and radio channels at their discression, then you CANNOT argue that they could change all the TV channels to radio channels because that was not the implied or inferred meaning.

My point is if SA wants to play the "interpretation game". Others know how to play too and that is when things can get messy!

See ya
Tony

[HDTVFanAtic]

The meaning is only as clear as long as the parties agree to the meaning or if it is clearly and unambiguously defined. The meaning is not clearly or unabiguaously difined on the contract. So if the position is you can claim that since the original state of things were 16 radio and 16 TV channels for a total of 32 channels and this is what the line in the contract means; and they can change the TV and radio channels at their discression, then you CANNOT argue that they could change all the TV channels to radio channels because that was not the implied or inferred meaning.

My point is if SA wants to play the "interpretation game". Others know how to play too and that is when things can get messy!

See ya
Tony

Clearly you have never dealt with contracts in a court of law. I never said 16 and 16.

The language is very clear and will hold up.

Of course, if you have money to throw away, go for it.

Your attorney will love the billable hours as no reputable attorney would take this on contingency - and if you manage to cost Sky Angel enough in attorney costs so they go bankrupt, Charlie would love you as it would give him several more transponders back.

[TNGTony]

Are you a lawyer? Because I never said you said 16 and 16. You made a comment about how thing were originally (32 channels) and I extended that same argument to include that the original state of things was 16 and 16. If YOUR argument is valid, so is mine. And yes, I deal with contracts all the time! I also ran this passed two lawyers (one a relative the other one a co-worker and a former Ohio State Representative who served on the legislative committee.) Both say the contract is so vague, it could be held up in court for years and the outcome is not certain either way. It would come down to who hired the most convincing lawyer! :)

See ya
Tony

[quiverof8]

they started yesterday :( Of course they just happened to shut off ALL the channels by "mistake" rather than just the 4 secular channels for some lifetimers. Now it will take "24 hours" to turn on the channels they never should have turned off!

anyone else have the "special 4" turned off? If so did you return the paper? with/without smart card/receiver #s?

Personally didn't send back anything. I wasn't going to help them turn off my channels! I am so glad I didn't fall for the prepay for a year to get the special 4. Guess what in a year or less SA will switch to IPTV!!!!

[Michael P]

Personally didn't send back anything. I wasn't going to help them turn off my channels! That is probably why you got shut off!
I did send back the flier, but soon my receiver will be swapped out. In the past that was not a problem because E* took care of everything. Do I now need to tell SA the new receiver & smart card numbers?

[dahenny]

That is probably why you got shut off!
I did send back the flier, but soon my receiver will be swapped out. In the past that was not a problem because E* took care of everything. Do I now need to tell SA the new receiver & smart card numbers?

I sent my letter in, with a NO! on the extra 4 channels, but I DID NOT give them my receiver numbers. My signal is still on.:grin:

[quiverof8]

I did NOT send in the form and did NOT get my channels secualr or otherwise removed (yet anyway). Other people however did lose ALL their channels.

those letters were a fishing expedition in preparation for IPTV1 they ere trying to figure out how many lifetime subs they have, how many are still viewers and how many might shell out more $ for IPTV! After all if you were willing to spend $4.99 to KEEP channels you already have you are more likely to shell out another $5 or $10 for IPTV

all this after the skewed VIEWER ADVSORY questionairre about IPTV. the questionairre only get sent to those with internet access. What about those viewers lifetime and monthly who never get surveyed as they do not have internet! Even if some do they may not have high speed to be able to get IPTV. sky angel is walking out on both monthly and lifetime subs with the move to IPTV

[James Long]

SkyAngel was interested in the number of subscribers who would potentially follow them to IPTV. Asking those with no internet access doesn't help ... the decision to leave satellite was likely a done deal - they were most likely just looking ahead for planning purposes to see how big of an IPTV service they have to build (especially if they offer the DVR like services including 48 hour rewind of any channel).

We still have not seen a list or an US price for what SkyAngel will be doing on IPTV. Hopefully it is better than the Canadian offering that we have been basing the conversation on. It does appear that SkyAngel is cleaning the slate and starting over as an IPTV company.

[Michael P]

Well SA turned off my channels Wednesday (although I did not catch it until Thursday - an E* tech said they got a cutoff request via a spreadsheet from the client (i.e. Sky Angel)). I had to call SA to have the channels turned back on. I told them that I had recently had a swap in receiver and that the receiver numbers that I put on the reply card had changed. The SA CSR said that they never got my reply card in the mail!?! (I filled it out and sent it back the same day it arrived in the mail) She asked me if I wanted the 4 channels and I said no, I get them from E*, why should I pay for them twice. She sent an order to E* to have me turned back on and everything including the "secular 4" came back on.

[quiverof8]

so far everyone who has been "shut off" has had ALL channels when they turn them back on. that includes the "special 4". funny thing is that even those who sent in the form and said NO still have them! So it seems that either Sky Angel doesn't have the capability to JUST shut off 4 stations, they have changed their mind but can't bother telling us or there was a bigger reason behind THE letter and making us call to have our channels turned back on!

to add insult to injury lifetime members have started to receive BILLS from SKY ANGEL! I am not sure if its funny or sad but the "amount due" is ZERO!!! So what is the purpose of this latest bill/mailing besides wasting postage on lifetime members?

Right about now a letter from sky angel to the lifetimers saying ooops we were wrong and will not shut off your channels would go a looooong way toward mending fences. They NEED lifetimers to follow them to IPTV. Even if they did give them an IPTV lifetime membership for the life of SKY ANGEL the positive , word of mouth advertising would do more for them that all the free drawings etc they can dream up. Granted not all can due to the internet requirements, then again its not possible for all monthly subs to follow either. If people leave, you want them to leave satisfied if not happy. Granted their #s are up due to adding Canada IPTV however they will drop once they switch the US to IPTV.

I almost hate to mention his name but remember Howard Stern? He made a big deal about going to sirrus Satellite radio (I think thats what it was called). He made an even bigger stink when his "loyal viewers" didn't follow him! I hope sky angel has a plan for picking up a new subscriber base as there are a lot of rumblings going on with the current one and the natives are restless!