Official Echostar 8 Discussion [Archive]

Mike123abc

10-08-02, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Ronster
This map and explanation below map looks like NYC is going to get the additional locals on E*8 that are now on the 61.5 location.
Is this true?? I sure hope so, I really dont want to do the second dish.

It depends on what space is available on the spots.  If E* could put the primary stations of another market on the main satellite by keeping the secondary stations of the NY or other markets on the wings, E* would probably opt to keep them on the wings.  There are 8 NYC stations on wings at this time... that is enough for 2 DMAs worth of ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX.

They have to have a formula somewhere that tells them it is better to put a second dish for those that ask vs revenue generated by putting another market up.  I bet over 95% of the market will never ask for a secondary dish.

johnsmith22

10-08-02, 04:44 PM

Does anybody know if transponders 13 and 14 are operating at full power at the moment? Also does anyone know if it is possible for Echostar to adjust the antennas to make changes to the footprint now the satellite is at its location?

TNGTony

10-08-02, 08:44 PM

Bryan, I've mirrored your page on the EKB on DBS Talk and have a copy on my hard drive just in case. I have pointers to it from Swiki and the EKB on DBS Talk and a clear link back to the original on the page (297). Let me know if you wish your name or anything else on the page.

Thanks! The JPGs look great!

See ya
Tony

ElJefe

10-09-02, 01:56 AM

Tonight I think E* may have moved transponders 1 and 3 over to the new satellite. May signal strength has gone from around 80 to around 105 on those two transponders. They are also definitely doing something to transponder 16, as it's signal strength is currently bouncing up and down wildly. 108, 80, 22, 0, 52. It's all over the place and the receiver won't lock on that transponder.

TNGTony

10-09-02, 06:58 AM

At about 4am I was gettin a mid 90s readin on transponder 1, but my receiver wouldn't get any channels on that transponder (Encore/Starz). I would get the "lost sinal screen". I also noticed TP 16 bouncing all ovet the place.

See ya
Tony

JohnH

10-09-02, 07:05 AM

Tony, I had the same problem on the DISHPlayer only. It just started working, now.

Tps. 1, 3, 16 and 19 have moved to EchoStar 8 as per the schedule. :)

unreg.

10-09-02, 08:06 AM

So if they're moving transponders to E*8, when are they going to double-power the E*5 TPs since they have the power to 2x one E*5 TP for each TP going to E*8?

rdonley

10-09-02, 08:16 AM

Does anybody have a schedule for the remaining traponder moves to E8?

Chris Freeland

10-09-02, 09:22 AM

Is their no TN or GA beam? Is Nashville and all Atlanta locals remaining on National beam? I was hoping that Chattanooga locals would have a outside shot at being squeezed in on either a Atlanta or Nashville Spot. I guess this means that the only chance for getting Chattanooga locals on E*is either on National beam (highly unlikely) or Charlie can make enough additional concessions to get merger approved (also uphill battle) :( .

btbrossard

10-09-02, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Chris Freeland
Is their no TN or GA beam? Is Nashville and all Atlanta locals remaining on National beam? I was hoping that Chattanooga locals would have a outside shot at being squeezed in on either a Atlanta or Nashville Spot. I guess this means that the only chance for getting Chattanooga locals on E*is either on National beam (highly unlikely) or Charlie can make enough additional concessions to get merger approved (also uphill battle) :( .

According to the nice maps that bryan27 made a link to further up this thread, both the Nashville and Atlanta markets will remain on CONUS beams.

At least for Atlanta, this makes sense. Atlanta stations (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX) are Distant Broadcast Networks and are viewed by subs all over the country.

I wish you luck on getting Chattanooga locals from E*. You never know what you might get from Charlie.

/Benjamin

johnsmith22

10-09-02, 01:18 PM

I think transponders 1,3,13,14,16 and 19 are now active on E*VIII.

Here are my latest readings:

1 - 85
3 - 82
4 - 51
5 - 51
8 - 54
9 - 49
12 - 67
13 - 77
14 - 82
16 -78
17 - 42
19 - 81
20 - 44
21 - 40
24 - 41

I seem to remember that someone posted a schedule for the changeover but can't find the post, does anyone know where we go from here? It would be nice to see E*V go to double power to bring in some of those transponders that I don't get a usable signal on!

kstuart

10-09-02, 03:00 PM

In Northern California, I'm now getting:

1 - 112
3 - 107
13 - 110
14 - 103
16 - 106
19 - 111

bryan27

10-09-02, 05:46 PM

Thank's Tony, if you feel like putting my name on it you can. It doesn't matter to me. I tried to make the JPGs larger and more detailed than on the old site, but keep them at a resonable size.

Chris, there is no beam for Atlanta, Nashville, or Minneapolis. In addition Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, & Cleveland have a 1 TP spot. There is no way these three cities will fit on 1 TP :shrug:

There was a rumor some time ago that E* would offer more distant locals to white areas after the spots were activated. I would predict that Nashville, Minneapolis, Cleveland, and/or Pittsburgh will be offered as distants.

Scott Greczkowski

10-09-02, 05:49 PM

Thanks Bryan, thats why you are out Spot Beam Guru. :)

It seems to me that DirecTV knows how to build better spot beam satellites then Echostar. :)

scooper

10-09-02, 06:17 PM

I don't know about better - they just had a different set of priorities / design goals.

Mike123abc

10-09-02, 08:03 PM

I hope that DirectTV changes the transponder frequencies of D-7s so that it could work in the same slot as D-4s, like E* did with E7 and E8. The only real downside of it would be that 8 spot frequencies would take up 8 of the 11 frequencies that D* has at 119. If they could turn on CONUS or spot for each of the 8, they could have a lot of flexibility.

Scott Greczkowski

10-09-02, 08:07 PM

Look at the map of Spots on DirecTV and the number of cities they serve with just ONE satellitte!

I would say that the two Dish Spot Beam Satellites be called Spot Beam Lite satellites. :)

johnsmith22

10-10-02, 06:35 AM

Looks as if transponder 21 has either gone to double power on E*V or has transferred to E*VIII, signal level has gone from 40 to 70. I think it is possible it is still on E*V as the signal level is noticably lower than the transponders that have moved to E*VIII.

JohnH

10-10-02, 06:53 AM

Tp 21 has switched to E*8. The signal here is higher than any other Tp from 110.

bryan27

10-10-02, 08:27 AM

Mike, I would gather that adding anything more to DTV-7S would have made it too expensive. I think we should be glad that it will work at 119 and work at 101 as a back-up.

Scott, you said what I was thinking last night, but didn't want to say it :D E* concentrated way too much on 100% redundancy. If E* keeps the plan as is with all this backup space they can only carry 52 cities, without using tons of space as backup about 62 cities can be squeezed in. D* on the other hand can carry 78 cities with a minimum amount of backup, and could probably squeeze in about 10 more very small 3-4 channel cities. E*s plan now is probably something like 'We have room for 1 channel on spot #16, so we are going to add the Presque-Isle Market.'

I would say that E* paid the price for being the first to order, and the first to file the sats. D* could have seen the FCC file and said 'We'll build better ones'

jquaglino

10-10-02, 09:35 AM

Bryan, by your calculations how many transponders on EVIII will be available after the move to spots.

bryan27

10-10-02, 03:12 PM

There will be 24 CONUS Transponders and 26 Spot Beam TPs on E-8. E-7 has 16 CONUS Transponders & 24 Spot Beam TPs. Combined E* has 30 CONUS TPs and 30 Spot Beam TPs at 110 & 119.

Just for comparison D* at 101 has 26 CONUS Transponders and 43 Spot Beam TPs. At 119 D* will have 5 CONUS TPs and 40 Spot Beam TPs. Combined with 110 D* will have 34 CONUS TPs and 83 Spot Beam TPs.

JohnH

10-10-02, 03:30 PM

I would believe E will have 40 conus and 50 spotbeam Tps.

Breakdown:
Echostar 7 has 16 conus and 25 Spotbeam Tps.
Echostar 8 has 16 conus and 25 spotbeam Tps.
EchoStar 5 will provide the remaining 8 conus Tps at 110.
One spotbeam on EchoStar 7 is aimed at Mexico City. All other spotbeams are aimed at the USA or it's territories.

Both E* 7 and E*8 were originally announced to have 25 spotbeam Tps each. It seems that E*8 may have one more than that now. We shall see.

wrate

10-10-02, 04:38 PM

John, How do you know its NOT going to be 24 transponders all from E*8 as Bryan says (8 at double power mode and 16 not)instead of 16 at double from E*8 and 8 at double from E*5?

JohnH

10-10-02, 04:49 PM

I don't know that. The question is: Does EchoStar 8 make more signal in single power mode than EchoStar 5 does in double power mode? If it does not, then there is no reason to have 16 single powered Tps up there when all could be double powered.

wrate

10-10-02, 05:04 PM

John,

I agree with you in the sense of signal. But, I wanted to know if what you posted was official or something you deduced.

JohnH

10-10-02, 05:16 PM

I was surprised when the transition schedule posted somewhere turned out to be "official", so far. That is more "official" info than we have received in all of the satellite transitions at EchoStar. The most official we usually get is on our signal strength readings. The we guess. Oh my, such signal could only come from a certain event. :)

wrate

10-10-02, 05:33 PM

True. Funny thing is that I have been looking for that post to find out who posted it and ask him/her for any new information. But the post has vanished :) That post was RIGHT ON in its schedule of how things were going to happen.

TNGTony

10-10-02, 06:46 PM

Okay, So I wasn't seeing things. I've been looking like crazy for that post here. I think I'd better start saving pages I MAY need in the future to my hard drive! :)

See ya
Tony

wrate

10-10-02, 07:36 PM

Tony, its even worse than you think. I copied and pasted that post in another dishnetwork forum. It disappeared from there too!
I don't understand.

Mike123abc

10-10-02, 09:03 PM

Maybe it was proprietary information and Dish asked for it to be removed...

bryan27

10-11-02, 09:58 AM

Perhaps I should rephrase. In the US E*s 110 location will have 24 CONUS Transponders and 26 Spot Beam TPs. The "extra" TP is beam number 16 on the E8 map and was added in an amendment. Of course we know that all spot beams at 110 will come from E8. Indications show that 16 CONUS TPs will come from E8 and the remaining 8 from E5. But as John said, we shall see.

Sorry about the mix up I typed 30 instead of 50. I had spotbeams on my mind. Combined 110 & 119 will have 50 spotbeam TPs on 30 spotbeams serving the US. E* only has 29 frequencies at 110, and 21 frequencies at 119. 29-5=24 21-5=16 16+24=30 thus, E* has 30 CONUS TPs.

So for comparison sake (serving the US):

Echostar-30 CONUS TPs, 50 Spotbeam TPs, 30 Spotbeams.

DirecTV-34 Conus TPs, 83 Spotbeam TPs, 53 Spotbeams.

Mike123abc

10-11-02, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by bryan27
Perhaps I should rephrase. In the US E*s 110 location will have 24 CONUS Transponders and 26 Spot Beam TPs. The "extra" TP is beam number 16 on the E8 map and was added in an amendment. Of course we know that all spot beams at 110 will come from E8. Indications show that 16 CONUS TPs will come from E8 and the remaining 8 from E5. But as John said, we shall see.

Sorry about the mix up I typed 30 instead of 50. I had spotbeams on my mind. Combined 110 & 119 will have 50 spotbeam TPs on 30 spotbeams serving the US. E* only has 29 frequencies at 110, and 21 frequencies at 119. 29-5=24 21-5=16 16+24=30 thus, E* has 30 CONUS TPs.

So for comparison sake (serving the US):

Echostar-30 CONUS TPs, 50 Spotbeam TPs, 30 Spotbeams.

DirecTV-34 Conus TPs, 83 Spotbeam TPs, 53 Spotbeams.

 

What you really meant to say is:

 

Echostar-40 CONUS TPs, 50 Spotbeams TPs, 30 Spotbeams

DirectTV-38 CONUS TPs, 83 Spotbeam TPs, 53 Spotbeams

 

Echostar will still have 2 more CONUS transponder frequencies not in spots than DirectTV has.  E* has 50 CONUS and D* has 46 to start with, E* put 10 in spots, and D* put 8 in spots (cannot turn on some on 119 because they are in E*'s frequencies, so 6 on 101 (4,12,18,20,26,28), 2 on 119 (26, 28), and none on 110).

johnsmith22

10-11-02, 10:35 AM

I suspect that E*VIII is not at double power at present because signal readings are noticably lower than those from E*VII. This of course could also be because the footprint is not quite the same and I am right on the edge of the footprint. Any comment?

bryan27

10-11-02, 11:09 AM

Doh, I forgot to carry the 1!!!! Someone kick me!

Yes E* would have 40 CONUS TPs.

D* still would have 34 CONUS TPs. The 3 at 110, 26 at 101, and 5 at 119. While at 119 the DTV-7s configuration will still use 6 frequencies for spotbeams. 26 & 28, and 4 more that I don't have information for yet(if I had to guess EVEN would be spots and ODD conus). When used as back-up at 101 the configuration is spots on 4,12,18,20,26,&28.

5TPs CONUS at 119 is enough room for the 30 National Channels, the 1 HDTV channel, and Locals for Norfolk (there is no beam for it), and the addition of another HDTV channel, and another set of locals. Of course 119 is currently jam packed without DTV-7s up there.

That is what the two configuration mode for DTV-7s is. At 119 the spots use 1 set of frequencies, and at 101 the spots use the same frequencies as DTV-4s.

wrate

10-11-02, 11:14 AM

Well, I don't know about proprietary information. I know that when the satellite was launched Dish did make a BIG DEAL out of it. So, it would seem logical that they would keep their customers updated on this situation. But, of course, that would only be if it was customers the company cared for. Obviously, stock holders only care how many satellites the company has, not how they are used.

Mike123abc

10-11-02, 01:04 PM

I do not understand the wierd frequencies picked by D* for their satellites. Beyond the fact that they are all even it does not make sense. They shuffle around the channels all the time anyways. It would have made 100x more sense to use 22-32 even on D-7s for 119 and 21-31 odd on D-4s at 101. That way they could be used in the same slot at 101 if they wanted like E7/E8. Hope they pick 6 different frequencies from 22-32 that D-4s does not use.

They need to think about the future. Someday they are going to want to put up a different satellite and having maximum flexibility of the satellites they have in orbit could be important.

kstuart

10-11-02, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by johnsmith22
I suspect that E*VIII is not at double power at present because signal readings are noticably lower than those from E*VII. This of course could also be because the footprint is not quite the same and I am right on the edge of the footprint. Any comment?

Footprint.

In Northern California, E*8 transponders are reading higher than E*5 double-power transponders.

Mark Holtz

10-12-02, 01:30 AM

Here are my readings:

- On 10/7 from 300 - 500am ET, transponders 13 & 14 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8.

10/2: 55 on 13, 86 on 14
10/12: 89 on 13, 98-100 on 14

- On 10/9, transponders 1,3,16,19 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8

10/2: 56 on 1, 65 on 3, 63 on 16, 65 on 19
10/12: 93 on 1, 88 on 3, 103-104 on 16, 95 on 19

- On 10/10, transponder 21 on E*5 will be transfered over to E*8

10/2: 56 on 21
10/12: 97 on 21

johnsmith22

10-13-02, 09:50 AM

Does anyone know where the schedule goes from here. I seem to recall from the message that has disappeared that they will begin to fire up spotbeams tomorrow. I assume once that is done they will sort out the other transponders that are very weak and difficult to lock down here in PR and the islands.

wrate

10-13-02, 05:36 PM

From the moving that took place last week, one would be inclined to think that they'll finish with the basic cable/PPV/Spanish this week, which means transferring transmission of transponders 22 to 31 to E*8. But the message did not say this, it ended with transponder 21 being moved and said that spots would light up during the week of the 14th.

jrbdmb

10-14-02, 08:53 AM

It looks like the spotbeams on E*8 have been activated as of 10/14. Here in Southern NJ I have reading of ~120 on trans. 2 and 10, ~95 on 8, and no signal on 4 and 6. This doesn't quite line up with what I expected based on Bryan's spot beam maps, so either Echostar is still in transition mode for these or they've made additional changes to their E*8 spotbeam "strategy".

Mike123abc

10-14-02, 09:26 AM

If they do the E7 strategy with E8 they will have transponders 1-21 on E8 (with 2,4,6,8,10 being spots) and 22-32 left on E5. I believe they only have the capacity for 16 CONUS transponders being double powered on E8. This will leave E5 with 8 transponders which it can double power.

When they did E7 they did not light up a transponder in a spot until they were ready to put channels on it. So, if they turned on T2 in the NE spot and filled it up, rest will remain dark until they are ready to uplink to them.

JohnH

10-14-02, 09:55 AM

Hey Nashville, what Tp are your locals on Now?

Tp 2 currently has Conus stuff on it. Maybe double powered.

Tp 10 is Philadelphia. May be on a spot. Have not checked to see what the signal charistics are here, yet.

Have not found Colorado Springs. Maybe turned on any time. They are showing up on TitanTV.com

kstuart

10-14-02, 10:35 AM

They have removed the names of the satellites from the signal strength screen.

It now just says "EchoStar 110W" on each transponder.

Transponder 2 doesn't seem much different (78 signal strength), but 4 and 6 are now off out here.

JohnH

10-14-02, 10:43 AM

Nashville and Colorado Springs are the only ones which do not appear to be on Conus anymore.

wrate

10-14-02, 11:05 AM

Mike123abc, I don't think that Dish leaving transponders 1-21 on E*7 at 119W is a strategy. It probably has to do with the fact that that's all the transponders they have at 119W. :)

I would really like to know what Dish plans for 110W. But the fact is that with the locals (non Dishnets) moving to Spots on E*8, what is left (that being basic cable/premium cable/ppv/spanish) Dish will only use up 15 Conus transponders. Leaving them with one empty transponder at E*8 in double-power mode, and E*5 unused with 8 possible transponders free.

Mike123abc

10-14-02, 01:12 PM

Well the reason it works out to 21 transponders is that there are 32 CONUS transponders on E7, but they run 16 instead of 32 so they can use double power on the 16. Then they use 5 transponder frequencies in the spot beams. 16+5 = 21. This also happens to be the licenses that they have at 119. I would speculate that this is the reason they designed E7 to have 5 spot freqencies because it just works nice with the 16 CONUS double power ones. E8 is essentially the same satellite as E7 (just has the spots pointed to different areas of the country and using even instead of odd transponders in the spots).

 

This is just the sort of satellite system I can see being designed by a marketing committee.  At least they changed E8 at the last minute so that it could work with E7 in the same orbital slot in case they decided to in the future (provided they come up with a third uplink facility, hmm maybe that PanAmSat buy will not be so bad with 5 new uplink centers...)

bryan27

10-14-02, 03:25 PM

It is rather obivious that TPs 4 & 6 have been turned off pending spotbeam activation.

jrbdmb, when E-7 was activated it took weeks before all the spots were turned on. When all is said and done you should get a strong signal on 2,4,6,10.

BTW is anyone receiving a signal on TPs 4 & 6?

hockeynut

10-14-02, 05:03 PM

Any idea what transponder on E8 will be used for NHL Center Ice?

Antonio

btbrossard

10-14-02, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by bryan27
BTW is anyone receiving a signal on TPs 4 & 6?

In the Milwaukee (WI) area, I am getting a signal off of transponder 6, however no signal off of 4.

The signal strength is only at 100. The spot beams from 119 are all at 125.

In the "point dish/signal" menu, when I click on 110 transponder 6, the text goes from "transponder" to "spot beam." This is the only transponder from 110 to do this so far.

ElJefe

10-14-02, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by hockeynut
Any idea what transponder on E8 will be used for NHL Center Ice?

Antonio

NHL Center Ice channels 540 to 547 are now coming from transponder 24.

JohnH

10-14-02, 07:37 PM

Apparently, you can forget about the comment which indicated Nashville is on Spotbeam. It appears DISH Network is transmitting misleading IDs on Tp 15. However it would appear as though Albuquergue has to be on a spotbeam if the aforementioned is correct.

TNGTony

10-14-02, 09:03 PM

Hi all...

Spot beams are strange on 110° Monday, 14....

104 signal (best I've ever seen from any TP EVER!) tp 6.
0 signal on tp 4

This is in Cincinnati

See ya
Tony

J. Allen Head

10-14-02, 09:26 PM

Transponders 4 & 6 have either went to spot beams or are in the process because my signal on those transponders yesterday was in the mid 80's and today there 0

Darkman

10-14-02, 11:58 PM

4 and 6 are both Spot Beam now...

J. Allen Head

10-15-02, 07:09 AM

Looks like TP 2 & 5 have gone to spotbeam on E8 and TP 9 has switched to E8

MORE POWER er, er, er

bryan27

10-15-02, 07:34 AM

Tony, that's very interesting. You must be picking up spotbeam #11.

Here are my readings this morning (10/15)

0 signal on 2,4,5,6. TP5 must have been cleared and the locals on TP5 moved to spots.

JohnH

10-15-02, 08:43 AM

My guess is Orlando and Tampa/St. Pete went to spotbeam

wrate

10-15-02, 11:25 AM

Transponder 9 is now being transmitted by E*8, channels that were carried by transponder 24 are now being carried by transponder 9.

JohnH

10-15-02, 11:55 AM

Those channels on Tp 9 made a temporary stop on Tp 2 yesterday when they left Tp 24.

8 of the NHL Center Ice channels are on Tp 24 now.

bolco

10-15-02, 11:59 AM

I'm in Pittsburgh and getting a 73 on T8. That (from what I read) is our spotbeam. Most of the odd 110 T's are above 100 for me. Seems somewhat disappointing (so far)

JohnH

10-15-02, 12:13 PM

bolco, T8 is still conus from E*5 in single power mode, apparently. It has Minneapolis/St. Paul on it.

jhall

10-15-02, 11:53 PM

I've been wondering about 8, I'm seeing what appears to be some sort of bleed-over from KCTV on vpid==4386 and apid==4387. seems to be related to weather, is available at night but is broken and it took me several hours to ID it last night. It is FTA.
12282 is now empty, but still transmitting DVB keep info. There may be hidden pids in use that are not showing up in the PAT.
and where did Nashville go to again? My records show it's on 6, and that's definitely NOT conus here.
But the NIT should say which sat they're on, that's rediculous to have to keep logs so you know what moved. I'd be looking to see SAC and ABQ drop off the map soon based on the recent channel moves.
Out of curiosity, what happens when a channel is moved? How noticable to the end user is it? Does the receiver switch to the new transponder for you or does it make you tune to a channel again? Maybe when TP8 goes to VIII this KCTV thing will get sorted out. All the rest of the channels are fine with solid data, with the exception of these PIDS. They're not allocated on this transponder. odd.

ElJefe

10-16-02, 12:48 AM

Until this week the Kansas City ABC and CBS channels were hiding FTA on transponder 8, and they were actually working. This week they're all broken. I don't have an FTA receiver, but was able to find them by tuning to a channel on the 119 satellite and making the SW-21 change to the 110 satellite by jiggling the cable at the wall plate. Other hidden FTA channels I've found are the Nashville NBC on transponder 10 (PID 6434/6435 from lyngsat.com) and WOTF Orlando on transponder 11 (PID 6178/6179), which is supposed to be on 61.5°

jhall

10-16-02, 01:15 AM

Well that is where it used to live, before the last set of moves in July. But now this channel is a bit flaky and does not seem to have a solid lock. I wonder if it has something to do with the QOS for bandwidth. They've got the bandwidth for it, because only PHL is on that transponder. Maybe the encoder is overworked? but now that it is discovered it will disappear.
I don't see where on lyngsat you are seeing WSMV on TP 10. I'm seeing spotty service but it's nowhere near as annoying as KCTV. I just stopped there because I discovered it by accident.
WOW! now THAT's timely! as I type, I have lost signal on TP 10. Maybe TP 10 is now moving?

UPDATE: it seems the tp10 content has moved to tp6. and it is beautiful too, no spotty signal any more. The VIII transponders are stunning over here, radical improvements over the V stuff.

ElJefe

10-16-02, 01:27 AM

Now it seems that transponders 8 and 10 have been turned off for spot beam use.

ElJefe

10-16-02, 01:32 AM

WSMV was not listed on lyngsat.com since it was well hidden. I gave the PID numbers for channel 9411 from 119° as that was the channel I had to use to access WSMV. (Tune to 9411, jiggle cable to make the SW-21 change satellites, see WSMV on the screen as it was on the same transponder with the same PIDs).

jhall

10-16-02, 01:53 AM

yes, we've moved PHL to tp 6 and lost MSP.

JohnH

10-16-02, 02:34 AM

Yes, Philadelphia is on Tp 6 Spotbeam, now. Minor rain fade situation here. Tp 18 reads 78, but Tp 6 reads 108.

Minneapolis/St. Paul has gone to some spotbeam, apparently.

Tps. 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 now only on spotbeams.

Tp 5 on, but only ID(no channels). Signal level indicates double power. Need info from other E*8 locations to determine if it is on E*8 or E*5.

RickD

10-16-02, 04:34 AM

Does anybody know what's going to happen to transponders 22 - 31? Here in the US Virgin Islands I am using a 4' dish and was hoping that signal strength would improve on these transponders. Most of my signals are "0".

JohnH

10-16-02, 04:38 AM

They may double power them after some of the dust settles, but I expect they will remain on EchoStar 5.

bryan27

10-16-02, 08:22 AM

John, Thanks for the info. I figured the Phily beam was activated since I was now getting a signal of 54 on TP6. I just couldn't figure out which city was on there.

It will be interesting to see what signal I get when our beam is activated, we don't have a beam on 119 to compare with :(

voyagerbob

10-16-02, 10:04 AM

Let me say this is odd. Traveling in the RV down here in Florida. Have my Receiver hooked up and can't get the Nashville Channels anymore. Screen says "Unable to view this channel outside of the designated viewing area" I don't know if this is becuase the signal is on spot beam or not. I don't really care about this problem.

But my problem is that it also says this on other channels as well. Such as FX. If I hit guide the picture comes in on FX. So I get the PIP of the show and the rest of the guide. I do this on the Nashville Channels and I get a black screen. When I hit cancel while tuned to FX and try to go back to the full screen I again get the message "Unable to view this channel outside of the designated viewing area". So basically have to watch TV in guide mode. This sucks. Hopefully this will correct itself when I get back to TN.

Assuming the Nashville Locals are not spotbeam, the only thing I can think of to explain this is that they are sending out signals on each spotbeam (Tampa for example) to kill all distant channels that the spotbeam can reach that are not supposed to be there. (IF that makes sense to anyone). Anyone have any thoughts.

wrate

10-16-02, 11:45 AM

Johnh, transponder 5 is now on E*8. And, I hope you are wrong about transponders 22 to 31. :)

Not that I care about transps. 22 to 31, if the programming carried by those transponders is moved to Conus transponders on E*8. Like it happened with transp. 24 on E*5 and transp. 9 on E*8.

Darkman

10-16-02, 11:56 AM

Yes - i can confirm that Philadelphia and Minneapolis went to Spot beam now apperently ( phily - tp 6 at 110, and Minneapolis - tp 8 at 110 )

bolco

10-16-02, 12:32 PM

Here in Pittsburgh, this is a sampling of what my 508 is showing TODAY...
(s=spot t=transponder)
-----------------------------
**119 Satellite**
s01 58
t02 121
s03 56
t04 117
-05 zero
t06 111
-07 zero
t08 120
-09 zero
t10 118
t11 116
t12 122
------------------------
**110 satellite**
t01 94
-02 zero
t03 91
-04 zero
t05 88
s06 81
t07 70
-08 zero
t09 93
-10 zero
t11 67
t12 102

johnsmith22

10-16-02, 01:17 PM

Transponders 5 and 9 appear to now have moved to E*VIII judging by signal levels.

CONUS programming is now appearing on transponder 9, National Geographic, Fox Sports and Latin channels are there. I forget where they were before but it was one of the higher numbertransponders.

I hope this means that conus programming is now moving down to the transponders vacated as the locals move to spotbeams.

Geronimo

10-16-02, 01:24 PM

Out of curiosity have any side satellite locals (61.5 or 148) gone to 110?

kstuart

10-16-02, 03:36 PM

LyngSat 110 page (http://www.lyngsat.com/dig/dish110.shtml) was changed yesterday to reflect the presence of EchoStar 8 .

TNGTony

10-16-02, 04:38 PM

Geronimo... the answer is no. I wouldn't expect too many channels to move from the wing slots unless they prove to be popular channels (and costing Dish too much) to keep on the side slots.

See ya
Tony

jhall

10-17-02, 12:01 AM

Because I wanted to find out what happened to Nashville, I hacked together a program that parses the SDT entries. It does indeed appear that Nashville is on network id 4102, transport stream 246. Following E* symantics, the 2xx transport ids are from 110, 4 must be the beam designation in some way, 6 the transponder number, AKA 12297&&LHCP. If they're working, they're on a spot.

ElJefe

10-18-02, 01:43 AM

Right now at 12:35am PDT, transponders 7, 11, and 15 have gone dark. This would affect locals for Sacramento (7), San Antonio (11) and Albuquerque (15).

JohnH

10-18-02, 04:11 AM

Yes, we could use some locals transponder info from subscribers in Sacramento, San Antonio and Albuquerque. :)

Geronimo

10-18-02, 07:17 AM

Thank you Tony. You are always very helpful. This is just one of thsose thing s where many people assumned a given answer. I was just curious.

Guest

10-18-02, 08:58 AM

Spotbeam tp6 with the ABQ locals is coming in at 55 here in west Tx. near the NM border. Spotbeam tp2 is coming in at 89. Both of these tp's had been dark since last week.

TNGTony

10-18-02, 10:22 AM

Thanks Geronimo.

New development from last night...looks like KTEL in the Albuquerque locals block moved from 148° to the spot beams. At least KTEL disappeared from 148° last night anyway.

-----------------
Just looked at the Dish Network web page and KTEL is no longer listed as an available channel in Albuquerque. I wonder if this channel was dropped due to lack of signal or what?

See ya
Tony

PeterB

10-18-02, 12:27 PM

No the station went off the air so they could concentrate on making compilation records from the 70s.

Just kidding. :D

10-18-02, 12:46 PM

Tony, I have the Albuquerque locals and KTEL was dropped a couple of months ago. I am not sure of the exact date but it has been gone at least since sometime in August.
KB

Mark Holtz

10-18-02, 01:15 PM

I will check tonight for Sacramento.

jhall

10-18-02, 01:46 PM

It appears that KMAX and other SAC programming has been moved to TP 8, TSID 248. That,of course, is not raisable from my location. But something else is odd. TP 6, the one that contains PHL locals, is substantially weaker today than it was yesterday. I don't know whether this is atmospherics or them playing with the power output on the transponder. I am getting severe pixilation on FTA signal.
I would post signal numbers, but the scale I am using is different than yours and wouldn't be useful.

JohnH

10-18-02, 02:16 PM

jhall, must be something wrong on your end or you might be on the fringe of the beam and it is moving slightly. Signal on The DISH Netwoprk receiver is about 108 most of the time. Signal on the FTA 88 out of 93. Very good.

jhall

10-18-02, 03:16 PM

ElJefe

10-18-02, 07:03 PM

Transponders 7,11, and 15 have come back on again late today. Their signal strength numbers suggest they are coming from Echostar 8 now.

Mark Holtz

10-18-02, 10:13 PM

Here is the latest status:

02-No signal
04-No signal
06-No signal
08-125
10-No signal

8630-KXTV- Spotbeam 8
8631-KOVR- Spotbeam 8
8632-KCRA- Spotbeam 8
8633-KTXL- Spotbeam 8
8634-KQCA- Spotbeam 8
8635-KMAX- Spotbeam 8
8636-KVIE- Spotbeam 8
8638-KUVS- 148/Transponder 6 (Sorry Amigos)

LadyTalia

10-18-02, 10:18 PM

JohnH

10-18-02, 10:26 PM

Your info about Philadelphia is incorrect. It went to T6.

jhall

10-18-02, 10:58 PM

It appears in today's update, I lost SAC, ABQ, DET, and CIN, as well as several channels from AT150 including Style, GAC, and Hallmark. Maybe these have moved to 119--I didn't pick up changes on 119 yet, have been focusing on 110. Why move around CONUS programming?
oh and all the NHL channels ran away too, all but maybe one. but my receiver knows about them -- hmmm. oh what is SA? (as in SA-N, 753? oh San Antonio
oh and this is odd, WADL is left out of the detroit block, WCWB, WNPA, and WQED (PIT) are removed, and a BTV.
It's almost as if my scan totally missed a transponder or something

TNGTony

10-19-02, 12:16 AM

Jhall... I'm a little confused. All these channels appear to be where they have been . Cincinnati is still at 110° ConUS tp 18 as of 2:16 am edt 10/19.

See ya
Tony

jhall

10-19-02, 12:30 AM

I know, I'm quite perplexed. I haven't seen it before. At the conclusion of the proggie I'm watching, I'll investigate again--perhaps it didn't lock to a transponder during the scan, perhaps they were bouncing, who knows. I'm not meaning to provide false information.
It turns out the scan was unable to lock to 22, 23, or 24. The SDT version was 24 before, this scan was 27, so perhaps things were a little in flux when I took the scan the first time. The CONUS channels appeared again, so did CIN and DET, as well as the missing PIT channels.

johnsmith22

10-19-02, 05:12 AM

Just for the record Conus transponders 1 3 5 7 9 11 12 13 14 15 16 19 21 are all showing signal levels that indicate they are either on E*VIII or E*V at double power, the remainder still seem to be on E*V as before.

PeterB

10-19-02, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by LadyTalia

Also- locals to be added later this fall/winter
Las Vegas, NV Chico, CA
Buffalo, NY Tyler, TX
Des Moines, IA Jacksonville, FL
Anchorage, AK Colorado Springs, CO
Louisville, KY

Still no Hartford, but Buffalo, and NV cities DTV has up as well.

I guess charlie doesnt care about us here, and were returning the favor by adding record numbers of DTV subs, and discconnecting numerous Dish subs.

Dish is done in Hartford.

Scott Greczkowski

10-19-02, 10:26 AM

I agree with you Peter.

I think I may have a 721, 6000 and 2 Dish Players for sale soon.

Charlies loss.

Darkman

10-19-02, 10:44 AM

oh-oh - Strong words there Scott ( right from Administrator's mouth :) ) - do not go! - Stay with us Dish's PPL :)

James_F

10-19-02, 09:22 PM

Why should people stay with Dish if they don't offer Locals that DirecTV does? HDTV is nice, but I'd rather have locals on my PVR than HDTV (don't ask me this question while watching sports on HDNet)...

Karl Foster

10-19-02, 11:41 PM

Where's Baltimore, Memphis, Columbus, Milwaukee, and Hartford? What is Dish smoking?! They are missing a huge potential customer base.

Darkman

10-20-02, 01:07 AM

Locals could be be "gotten" with Antenna though - and for Free often too? No? (as was mentioned by Jim at one of retailers chat)

The money one can safe on Locals - can go towards putting nice antenna :)
lol
Do not "bite my head off" - just a suggestion on a light note (combined with a joke)

jhall

10-20-02, 05:51 AM

We might see Baltimore because the CBS is an O&O, but there might be problems with proximity to Washington.
All the Northern Virginia cable companies carry MPT, for example, because MPT is a good public television service. Both MPT and WETA are nationally recognized, and so I don't know how they'd resolve that.
My understanding was that a station wishing must carry had to apply by DEC of last year. In the channel lineup, I saw that WFPT both had appeared in the PAT on whatever the transponder for Washington on 61.5 was and it appeared on their web page, along with WJAL and some others. At that time, I concluded it was a ploy on Maryland's part to get MPT into the Washington locals. Concurrently to that, I saw allocations of 8370 - 8376, or was it 8730 and 8736, I can't recall, I think it was 8370 - 8376 for Baltimore. Anyway, those disappeared from from zap2it, WFPT was removed form the PAT on the 61.5 transponder, and dish absolutely has no words for me on the subject. (it's not in their computer, therefore nobody must be discussing it at all) During that time, I had spoken to a MPT representative to determine when WFPT would be on E*. They said by end of April, but they were shooting for end of March. But sadly it never happened, and a discussion with them resulted in them saying they had no words on
whether they would be added to E* or not, probably that they wouldn't, but when pressed indicated there might be an outside chance.
I'd like to know if somebody could look to see if WFPT actually filed for must carry and if E* is trying to get out of it. And if they didn't, they're stupid because it would be a freeby to reach the E* subscribers. My understanding is that WFPT is a station of itself, not classified a repeater and thus would apply for must carry. They are transmitting in Frederick to reach the Washington and Northern Virginia community, although they don't seem to hit VA very well.
Thoughts welcome. I like to watch some specific programming from them and don't like to pay for basic limited cable just to pull them in. Their signal on the cable is spotty at best because of the distance and they're pulling them in at the head end with analog. Dropping my cable subscription would be a HUGE win for me. (locals are what 5 dollars and cable is 17) and the home owners association won't let me put any antenna up of any kind on my roof; the exception being a satellite dish. I've got a farm up there, I guess it's only a matter of time before they start whining. My MPT discussion most recently happened this month.

James_F

10-20-02, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Darkman
Locals could be be "gotten" with Antenna though - and for Free often too? No? (as was mentioned by Jim at one of retailers chat)

True, but try recording a local channel on a PVR with OTH? You can't. I can't imagine not having locals off the satellite. I'm never able to watch most of my shows on CBS, ABC, FOX and NBC so without PVR support. I'd be on cable with a SA TiVo without LIL. If you could record OTH locals, then I would agree with you. See my point?

scooper

10-20-02, 08:34 AM

Jhall - your HOA is WRONG - see my sig

jhall

10-20-02, 04:12 PM

right, so this clause prohibits me for installing an antenna to reach WMPT, Annapolis.
Q: I want a conventional "stick" antenna to receive a distant over-the
air television signal. Does the rule apply to me?

A: No. The rule does not apply to television antennas used to receive
a distant signal.

Depending on the definition of distant signal, WMPT definitely applies. Although WFPT may be in my market, it is equally difficult a catch and would preclude Washington locals because of the direction. Anappolis provides a better catch because it is direction-wise closer than Frederick. The rule does not seem to speak at all about multiple antennae, nor does it speak about an antenna designed to receive services from multiple providers. If, for example, I install a 1m antenna on my roof for the purposes of receiving FTA signals, I am not sure it is acceptable for the rule.

scooper

10-20-02, 05:30 PM

There are NO size restrictions for the OTA antenna - the 1M size (any size in Alaska) is ONLY for DBS dishes. There is also NOTHING saying that you can't use a rotator, or multiple antennas pointed in different directions (although, for technical reasons I would recommend the rotator over joining multiple antennas). The key words here are LOCAL TV BROADCASTS - so you could legitimately argue that ANY station within 60-70 miles (the radio horizon, essentially) of your location qualifies as local for OTA reception, no matter which direction you must point in to get it.

C-Band / Ku-band (satellite that is not DBS) is NOT covered by this rule, so far as I can determine.

Keep in mind that most HOA covenants were written pre-1995 (when this came out), or the drafters were not aware of this and just copied a standard "boilerplate" of another development, without really going through it and seeing if they needed updating. You should also press the issue through the HOA to update their covenants with respect to this (and you have federal law on your side). And if someone throws up the the "we have cable" arguement - this rule was put out specifically to PREVENT cable as the only means to get TV.

Geronimo

10-20-02, 06:22 PM

The annapolis satation is much easier to receive in VA than the Frederik one. Frederick may be in the DMA but antennas dont seem to respect that.

I always thought all MPT stations have identical programming. I could be wrong.

I have been told that DISH does not HAVE to show MPT since they already have 3 public stations. DTV does carry it but perhaps because they must show it in Baltimore.

jhall

10-21-02, 12:33 AM

yes, the MPT stations all show the same programming. They may argue that one PBS station is as good as another, but try to get WETA to show red dwarf, doctor who, or outdoors maryland. I was hoping that WFPT is in the DC market and would qualify as a low-powered station that makes the criteria for must carry, unless MPT wants to charge E* for the privilege of carrying their programming. It's kinda like a internet peering contract, you don't know who is the customer.

scooper

10-21-02, 04:28 AM

Low-power TV stations DO NOT qualify for Must Carry on DBS. Also- the rules on NCE (PBS and some other educational / non-commercial) stations Must Carry are a bit more involved than you just stated. Suffice to say that MPT wasn't among the first 3 for the DC area and/or their programming was substantially duplicated on the other NCE's.

jhall

10-21-02, 05:08 AM

so the short of this is you don't think we will see MPT on E* in the future? I do not pretend to understand the laws, I am only going by memory from watching the debates on c-span. If MPT isn't in the first three, who are they? WETA, WUTP, and who? WNVC and WNVT, although they may be classified PBS stations, definitely do not show PBS programming, at least not that I've seen.

scooper

10-21-02, 06:22 AM

Note - there is a distinction between PBS and NCE - PBS is a subset of NCE. The rules are that the DBS providers only have to Must Carry the first 3 NCE stations, any more after that the station must offer a substantially different programming schedule from those already carried.

In short, you probably won't get MPT on E* unless E* starts offering Baltimore.

bryan27

10-21-02, 07:58 AM

C-Band / Ku-band (satellite that is not DBS) is NOT covered by this rule, so far as I can determine.

It is any dish of 1m or less. Ku-Band which uses 1m or less dishes would certainly qualify. C-Band on a 1m dish isn't likely.

Low-power TV stations DO NOT qualify for Must Carry on DBS.

The only exception is if the LPTV is a translator, and the main station uses the translator as a way to get the signal to the POP.

PBS is a subset of NCE.
I quess it could be phrased that way :) PBS is a program distrubution service providing programs to member stations through an interconnected service.

Not all NCE stations "subscribe" to the PBS service. The largest competitor to PBS is APT http://www.aptonline.org/ there is also the smaller Annenburg which is instructional programming.

WNVC and WNVT will never have PBS programs. Why? They run their own competing "network" called MHz Networks.

scooper

10-21-02, 10:02 AM

Thanks for your comments -
As a Compueter Science major from college, I tend to think in mathematical terms, and that "explanation" fit closest to what I was trying to say.

Bob Haller

10-21-02, 01:23 PM

pittsburghs spot any time in next day or so!

bryan27

10-21-02, 04:41 PM

Echo-8 spotbeam map has been updated with information from the FCC file on the satellite. A few of the beams in the old map had their beam centers off by as much as 75 miles. The updated map uses 50watts (the maximum spot power) instead of 45watts that the old map used, which greatly increases the -5dB contour. After looking at the map it now is aparent that both DTV-4S and Echo-8 were constructed by the same manufacturer.

http://wvjw.info/dbs-beam/

The only thing I haven't but on the map that is on all the others are the TPs used on the beams as they are different than those on the application. This will be added when all the beams are activated.

btbrossard

10-21-02, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by PeterB

Still no Hartford, but Buffalo, and NV cities DTV has up as well.

I guess charlie doesnt care about us here, and were returning the favor by adding record numbers of DTV subs, and discconnecting numerous Dish subs.

Dish is done in Hartford.

The same goes for Milwaukee, WI. I guess Charlie doesn't want the $1,200+ dollars a year I spend on DBS service.

DirecTV offers locals in Milwaukee and I will soon be a DirecTV subscriber.

/Benjamin

JohnH

10-22-02, 02:04 AM

Looks like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit and Austin have gone to spots this morning.

unreg guest

10-22-02, 03:58 AM

Here at 5:40a EDT, 30mi east of Toledo, OH, DP501, DP Twin:

110W
01 -- 117
02 -- 125 MAX
03 -- 111
04 -- ZERO
05 -- 114
06 -- 59
07 -- 110
08 -- 125 MAX
09 -- 111
10 -- 125 MAX
11 -- 111
12 -- ZERO
13 -- 111
14 -- 117
15 -- 111
16 -- 116
17 -- ZERO
18 -- ZERO
19 -- 115
20 -- ZERO
21 -- 113
22 -- 95
23 -- 88
24 -- 100
25 -- 88
26 -- 94
27 -- 87
29 -- 89
31 -- 91

119W for comparison
01 -- 44
02 -- 119
03 -- 41 (not locked)
04 -- 117
05 -- 120
06 -- 106
07 -- 117
08 -- 121
09 -- ZERO
10 -- 117
11 -- 121
12 -- 120
13 -- 114
14 -- 119
15 -- 111
16 -- 100 *
17 -- 120
18 -- 121
19 -- 117
20 -- 116
21 -- 120

* 119W TP 16 is weird -- sometimes it reads ~75, if you move up or down a few transponders and go back, it reads 100 or 111

johnsmith22

10-22-02, 05:31 AM

They must be very close to finishing the moves to the spots. Looks like there are now seven transponders without anything on them, 5,7 and 11 have a signal but aparently no programming and 12,17,18 and 20 are dark.

Any ideas on the next move?

JohnH

10-22-02, 07:55 AM

There are still Washington, Dallas non-nets and Miami Nets as possible moves.

Tps 5 and 7 look like the NBA League Pass may be warming up there.

bryan27

10-22-02, 08:15 AM

Here are my readings this morning:

2--100
4--0
6--70
8--115
10-125

Right now I would say that the CLE,PIT,CIN beam is TPs 8&10 and that TP 2 is in the 'Mid-West' beam. I know that TP 6 is comming from the Phily beam.

JohnH

10-22-02, 08:23 AM

Well, Tp 2 has Pittsburgh nets and Cleveland on it. It gets here.

Tp 8 has Pittsburgh non=nets and Cincinnati. It gets here.

Tp 10 has Detroit on it. It gets here.

Looks like all 3 are on the same beam.

bryan27

10-22-02, 08:49 AM

Thank's John. The info is a big help as I'm trying to configure cities and TPs on the new map.

Chris Freeland

10-22-02, 08:50 AM

It appears from the revised map that Chattanooga is just barely missed by two spotbeams. It appears unless Charlie can pull a rabbit out of the hat and save the merger, no locals for me. :(

10-22-02, 09:08 AM

Bryan27,
Looking at the revised map you posted yesterday, I am still not under a spot from E8 here in w Tx. near the NM border. However, if this will help you, I am receiving an avg reading of 60 on tp 6, 107 on tp2 and this morning tp8 fired up in the 70's.
Tp6 is for Albuquerque, tp2 is for San Antonio and it appears tp8 is for Austin.
Question-Since the old NM spot map had two tp's (8 & 10), it appears the new expanded spot for NM will take in a large portion of Co. under this spot with ABQ at tp6 (known) and Colorado Springs at tp4 (according to lyngsat). Does this sound correct?

bryan27

10-22-02, 09:11 AM

Chris, we all know what is going to be added to the empty space. Once Washington, Miami, & Dallas Non-Nets are moved there will be 7 1/2 empty TPs. Enough room for 15 additional cities. I wouldn't give up hope just yet.

Chris Freeland

10-22-02, 09:27 AM

bryan27, if your latest map update is correct it appears that Chattanooga is still missed by all spotbeams, even the one that Nashville is on. Unless E* adds Chattanooga on full conus on 110 or 61.5 or launches another spotbeam satellite, I do not see Chattanooga being added. I doubt E* would consider placing Chattanooga on full conus, maby 61.5, and even if E* decided to add another Spotbeam bird in the future it would likely be at least a couple of years in the future.:shrug:

Jacob S

10-22-02, 09:41 AM

I have also noticed transponder 16 bouncing around on 119

TNGTony

10-22-02, 09:43 AM

Bryan... Readings in Cincinnati:
2 (98)
4 (0)
6 (99)
8 (101)
10 (100).

Signal strength taken during clear sky low humidity.

See ya
Tony

bryan27

10-22-02, 10:56 AM

KB, these aren't exact contours. These are the "predicted" -5dB contours. To make an exact map is difficult an really not necessary. The -5dB contours is about an 85 to 100% signal level. The 60 and 70 on TPs 6 & 8 indicate a signal level of 48 and 56% signal level, well below a -5dB level.

Most likely you are receiving a small pocket of strong signal on TP2 which gives you an 85% signal. Predicting small pockets of signal is well beyond the software that I use.

bryan27

10-22-02, 11:07 AM

Tony, thanks. My feeling is that what was presented to the FCC was really messed up when it came to TPs per beam. My feeling now is that our beam was the 3 TP beam and that the 'Mid-West' beam was either the 1 TP beam or it is a 2 TP beam (either 6 or 4&6).

wrate

10-22-02, 11:15 AM

JohnH, why do you say that transponders 5 and 7 on E*8 are warming up for the NBA channels (560-5xx)? Is there any evidence of this in the digital signaling of either of this transponders?

JohnH

10-22-02, 11:18 AM

wrate, the channels are currently hidden, but the SIDs and PIDs are there.

JohnH

10-22-02, 04:28 PM

Tps 12, 17, 18 and 20 are back on now. Can we get some readings from California or Washington State to see if they are on EchoStar 8 or EchoStar 5?

scooper

10-22-02, 06:22 PM

From just NNE of Raleigh - slot 110
1 - 104, 11 - 93 21 - 103
2 - 0, 12 - 104 22 - 77
3 - 89 13 - 95 23 - 68
4 - 0 14 - 101 24 - 82
5 - 92 (S?) 15 - 91 25 - 70
6 - 80 (S) 16 - 103 26 - 75
7 - 89 17 - 97 27 - 64
8 - 0 18 - 103 29 - 68
9 - 94 19 - 92 31 - 65
10 - 0 20 - 104

jhall

10-22-02, 06:48 PM

I don't see a PAT being transmitted on 5 and 7. Are they still "hiding" as you put it?

JohnH

10-22-02, 06:55 PM

jhall, they pulled the streams this evening in an unusual fashion. Some of the DISH Network receivers show "Wrong Sat" and some show "Not Locked", even though they show a signal strength.

ElJefe

10-22-02, 06:56 PM

From north of Seattle:

12: 96
17: 109
18: 95
20: 97

22-31: 70's and 80's
All spot beams: 0
For some reason I always get lower numbers on even transponders than on odd transponders.

ElJefe

10-22-02, 07:01 PM

JohnH-

my 3900 says "wrong sat" with no name on those 2 transponders (5 & 7). Sometimes this lack of satellite ID happens on other transponders. If it happens on the transponder of a channel the receiver is currently tuned to, the receiver becomes unable to "acquire" the satellite signal after exiting the Dish Pointing screen. "Acquiring satellite..." will stay on the screen until the transponder starts having a satellite ID again. Really annoying bug in the receiver software.

jhall

10-22-02, 07:05 PM

well I can say that I am getting a lock on the transponders, but there is no PAT, no CAT, no usual tables. I did not check for the presence of NIT or SDT--and I can't do so for an hour for logistical reasons. I noticed too that 17 and 20 came back, transmitting tables but with no content. Maybe I should get a budget card for this purpose.

JohnH

10-22-02, 08:00 PM

11, 12, 15, 17, 18 and 20 have no channels except for maybe a Trickle here and there.

Darkman

10-22-02, 08:02 PM

JohnH - they must be placeholders (or placekeepers) or whatever TNGTony calls them at his site - (the NBA once..)

They are not in the EPG yet...

Tony - maybe make some changes to your list - indicating that those are "placekeepers"

jhall

10-22-02, 08:06 PM

yep, I definitely have signal lock, but no tables at all. They appear quite dead.

TNGTony

10-22-02, 09:13 PM

I e-mailed Darkman already, but I wanted to let every one else he know that in my rush to get the info out there this morning before I went to work I failed to mark the channels in Red and put the (1) or (14) disclaimer on the notes. Now that even that is gone, I placed the (9) on them. No official info yet. But remember that we didn;t hear word one of the NHL package until 10 days before it launched! They could be cutting this one even closer. Or no at all. :)

See ya
Tony

Darkman

10-22-02, 10:58 PM

hehe Tony, - sounds like Charlie :)

TNGTony

10-23-02, 12:21 AM

You mean how I can write a whole paragraph and end up saying nothing when it's all over? :D

See ya
Tony

kstuart

10-23-02, 12:32 AM

Are there any channels that have moved from 119 to 110 since the beginning of the E*8 deployment?

jhall

10-23-02, 01:54 AM

not unless they're today. Have you noticed some channel missing?

johnsmith22

10-23-02, 04:43 AM

Down here in the islands this morning I am seeing the following on 110:

1 - 82
3 - 80
5 - 79 showing wrong sat
7 - 80 showing wrong sat
9 - 76
11 -77
12 - 78
13 - 72
14 - 83
15 - 77
16 - 74
17 - 72
18 - 83
19 - 78
20 - 72
21 - 68
24 - 41

all others at zero, readings taken on a PVR 501 with 1.8 meter Channel Master Dish.

jrbdmb

10-23-02, 07:41 AM

As of 10/23 AM in southeast New Jersey:

2 - 0
4 - 0
6 - 125
8 - 0
10 - 0

Still waiting to see if spot 13 (transponder 4?) comes online with
D.C. locals, or if anything shows up for spot 14 ...

Geronimo

10-23-02, 10:02 AM

Interesting my highest reading is TP 8 and Ia m right outside dC.

wrate

10-23-02, 11:02 AM

What are placeholders? Do you mean to say that Charlie would leave 8 Conus transponders on E*8 empty just waiting for some sporting event?

kstuart

10-23-02, 12:29 PM

Spot beam on Transponder 8 pinning the meter in Northern California.

wrate

10-23-02, 04:39 PM

Well, at least two transponders (5 and 7) will be left as "placeholders" for the NBA thing on E*8. :(

Darkman

10-23-02, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by TNGTony
You mean how I can write a whole paragraph and end up saying nothing when it's all over? :D

See ya
Tony

lol,
but NO - i ment by "sounds like charlie" when you said "cutting close to deadline, etc"

jhall

10-23-02, 11:05 PM

hey the NBA is back.

TNGTony

10-23-02, 11:53 PM

Wrate,

What I call "placeholders" is a listing in the EPG of a satellite's transponders (the EPG that allows the browse feature to work). There are several channels listed there that aren't really uplinked, but show channel info. Many channels like this eventually have been added to the line-up. What drives one of the contributors to the EKB Channel list batty is that many more have never seen the light of day on E* and have had placeholders for ever! Some locals I have listed as (14) on the list have been in the transponder EPG since 1/2/02! :)

See ya
Tony

Darkman

10-24-02, 12:04 AM

with my poor english - "placeholders" often remind me of Placemats :)

TNGTony

10-24-02, 12:15 AM

Well...see Darkman, when you have a placemat a meal is SURE to follow eventually! :-) Great analogy, no? :D

See ya
Tony

Darkman

10-24-02, 12:23 AM

ya..Tony - get ready for Email :)
the Meal is coming...a feast i might add :)

jhall

10-24-02, 01:28 AM

how about semafore? (is that how you spell it) to be clear this is a channel that shows up in the PAT, has valid audio and video pids, has a CA PID, but there are no PES packets going to the apid or vpids? Do these show up in the SDT? for example WFPT showed up in the PAT on that 61.5 transponder, but didn't show up on lyngsat because nobody found it manually.

Darkman

10-24-02, 01:31 AM

Tony - Email sent...
Las Vegas and Jacksonville - looks like just joined or joining in the 9000s

wrate

10-24-02, 11:11 AM

Thanks Tony. I understand now.

Do you guys think that Dish is done with E*8 as far as National Programming is concerned? I mean that the channels on transps. 22-31 will remain on E*5 and that empty conus transponders (i.e. 11, 12, 17, 18...) on E*8 will be used for more locals?

kstuart

10-24-02, 11:51 AM

how about semafore? (is that how you spell it)

Semaphore, as in (old fogey voice): When I was a small child, we didn't have NBA Season Pass - the only way we could get the NBA scores was by semaphore.

JohnH

10-24-02, 11:56 AM

jhall, it is likely that it was found, but the content could not be verified.

johnsmith22

10-25-02, 09:50 AM

I would really like to know what Dish intend to do about transponders 22 through 31 as those transponders are very weak in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands making them un-receivable.

Does anyone have any ideas what the plans for them are?

Mark Holtz

10-25-02, 10:31 AM

Heres the latest from Sacramento:

2 - Spotbeam @ 82
4 - NO SIGNAL
6 - NO SIGNAL
8 - Spotbeam @ 125 - Guess I won't have rain fade while watchinglocals.
10-NO SIGNAL

As for Conus, from 1 until 21, I'm getting strengths from 82 to 101. From 22 on, I getting a strength of 46 (on 25) to 64.

Darkman

10-25-02, 10:41 AM

JH, bryan27 or Anyone,

Do you know if dish finished moving Locals to Spot Beam Tps at 119 or at 110? (by moving i mean the existing non Spot Beam tps locals - not counting the new/upcoming ones)
Or are they still planning to move more of the existing non Spot beam ones to the Spot? If so - do you know which Markets?

Thanks

Darkman

10-25-02, 10:45 AM

JH (and All),

I saw this somewhere:
"Cowboy TV, a PPV service, will be made available on Dish Network on November 24th. It will be on channel 456, and it will start off with the PRCA National Finals Steer Roping. It will expand to cover Chevy Truck / National Cutting Horse Futurity and more."
--
Above is a rumor i guess..just wondering if anyone heard something on that?
and JH - do you see any type of "Placeholder" for the above rumoured ch 456?

bryan27

10-25-02, 11:14 AM

The only thing left on 110 would be Washington and Dallas (Non-Nets). Miami is a toss up. It could go to 119 with the other Miami stations or it could go to a spot on 110.

Z'loth, thanks. I would guess that TP2 is on the beam for Redding/Chico, but at a lower power for testing. Now lets turn on the rest!

JohnH

10-25-02, 11:48 AM

Darkman, channel 456 has been a sports and events PPV for some time.

As to whether they are finished "moving" locals to spots, keep watching. :)

CoriBright

10-25-02, 12:39 PM

We still waiting in Las Vegas to hear anything about those locals!

The UPN would be great.... it's such a low signal our affiliate transmits that the OTA antenna only picks up a horrible signal.

As for HD locals via OTA, we've only really got CBS. The PBS HD is the national demo, ABC is upconverted and the rest 'may' arrive sometime in November. Since our NBC affiliate has passed nearly 15 deadlines and still nothing, I'm not holding my breath.

Titan TV reports that some will 'arrive' 1st November.

Cari
www.coribright.com

Darkman

10-25-02, 04:08 PM

JH - hehe - somehow i knew it was 456, but was thinking 556 :)
sorry - yes 456 is of course exists

thought - they d stick some 556 between NHLs and NBAs :)

Cori - your Las Vegas locals are coming very soon..they are in place already in the 9000s...

johnsmith22

10-27-02, 09:23 AM

Still no sign of Dish doing something about transponders 22 through 31, they are still on E*V at low power making the almost impossible to receive in PR and Virgin islands.

Does anyone know what they intend to do, there seem to be two alternatives, move most of the programming over to the now spare transponders on E*VIII or double the power on the E*V transponders, What will it be?

JohnH

10-27-02, 09:35 AM

Either way it would seem that double powering the E*V would be an eventual move. They may be waiting for E*VIII to get more time online before making any such moves.

wrate

10-28-02, 11:09 AM

JohnH, do you see any signs (SSID's for instance) on E*8's transponders 11, 12, 15, 17, 18 or 20 that may indicate what those transponders will be used for in the near future? Or that they will in fact be used?
TIA

JohnH

10-28-02, 11:56 AM

wrate, apparently no videos there, hidden or otherwise.

Chris Freeland

10-28-02, 02:49 PM

errr!!! Seams that Chattanooga is right in a whole , barely missed by 3 spots. I get a 75 on TP9 at 119, which is the Birmingham Spotbeam I think. I get about a 45 or 50 signal on TP 6 which is the Nashville beam, funny thing is that TP4 which is also on the Nashville beam I get a 0 signal. I also get a 45 or 50 on TP8(I think that is correct), which if I am not mistaken is one of three TP's on the Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati spotbeam but 0's on other two TP's on that Spotbeam. Very frustrating, because of this and the fact that Chattanooga is the #85 dma and the merger is not likely going through, I do not stand a chance of getting my locals :( .

dlsnyder

10-30-02, 08:37 AM

I am seeing signal of 125+ on 110 tp 2 and 87 on 110 tp8 out here in western Riverside county CA, about 60 mi east of downtown LA. I am guessing that Las Vegas will probably be on tp8 (I am about 400 mi SW of there) but does anyone know what is going to tp2? Perhaps moving LA side-slot channels? I get a better signal on that one than on 119 tp3!

Darkman

10-30-02, 09:01 AM

Check TNGTOny's Channel list site..
the information on Las Vegas locals is already there..

Rob B

10-30-02, 09:42 AM

I was wondering about Colorado Springs...I heard that Dish was going to have our locals on the New Mexico spots (TP4&6). I get a 125 reading on TP4...but TP6 which is supposed to be on the same spotbeam is 0. Is TP6 pointed differently than 4?

Darkman

10-30-02, 09:51 AM

Check the TNTTony's Channel list site too...
the info on Colorado Springs is already there as well

JohnH

10-30-02, 10:30 AM

It is beginning to look more and more like each of the 25 or 26 spotbeam transponders on EchoStar 8 has its own antenna.

jhall

10-30-02, 04:34 PM

I'm not sure when this happened exactly, but it seems STZ-W was given an AC-3 stream. WOOHOO!

TNGTony

10-30-02, 08:39 PM

jhall

September 23, 2001. See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/247

See ya
Tony

jhall

10-30-02, 10:30 PM

well it may have been removed, because it was not in revision 'q' of my files taken on October 23. Revision 'r' taken today has added the stream.
no big deal, I had just noticed it.
How annoying it is, however, that the HBO and SHOW DD feeds only have 2.0 instead of 5.1. (the 5.1 streams are available on HDTV channels) can somebody query E* about this?

scooper

10-31-02, 04:27 AM

It also depends if the movie in question was done in DD5.1 or not. Trust me - HBO lights up my DD5.1 indicators on the right movies.

jhall

10-31-02, 04:42 AM

maybe HBO gets it right, but Dances With Wolves on Showtime last week was 2.0 on channel 318 and 5.1 on 9430.

jrbdmb

10-31-02, 05:56 AM

So the Washington D.C. locals and Miami NETs are still on CONUS after close to a month - I'm starting to wonder if there are some issues with moving these channels to spot beam. Any info?

Lyle_JP

10-31-02, 10:12 AM

That just means that Showtime was not provided with a 5.1 mix for broadcast, which is not uncommon with older films. The cable stations are lagely only being given 5.1 mixes for films which have premiered on cable within the last two years.

-Lyle J.P.

jhall

10-31-02, 12:27 PM

so this is an issue where E* provides the AC3 stream for 318 and Viacom provides the feed on the HD channel? At the same time, 9430 was running a 5.1 mix and 318 was running a 2.0 mix.

jhall

11-01-02, 02:28 AM

Perhaps so far they have just been moving the "easy" moves, ones whre they simply have to redirect a transport stream. To move Washington locals to their spot, they would need to break up a stream. Surely not difficult for them, maybe they're not bandwidth-crunched any more and are ok just to let it sit there on CONUS transponders.

JohnH

11-01-02, 07:35 AM

And beside that, maybe someone in Colorado wants to watch those channels at home. :)

Darkman

11-01-02, 08:58 AM

lol :) ;)

Darkman

11-01-02, 05:44 PM

JH - arggg - lol - you exposed my Fashion TV - just kiddin...
( I knew you would anyhow somehow ) :)
I discovered that TP yesturday there...was going to post at the Espee..but figured - i ll hold on somewhat...
LOL - sure thing - today you posted it :)
So i updated the Espee site as well

JH - you know i tried other fishing for other TPs there - and discovered few more - but when scan them for channels - nothing is on them - they are "empty"..
there are several like that there..and i only fished at 20000 V and 22000 V

jhall

11-05-02, 07:49 AM

Can somebody in Dallas and Denver please confirm you are receiving your locals? The SDT tells me they are where they are supposed to be, but I am wondering about the integrity of them. Can you confirm?
as soon as I posted this, no sooner had I hit send, then numbers started to look right. I was about to comment that I still had KWGN, so it wasn't likely a fiber outage. Maybe it was a move gone bad? :)

Perhaps Dallas and Denver could keep an eye on it and let us know? (I don't really think I am going mad)

jhall

11-05-02, 08:51 AM

We lost Nashville NETS today on 12297 FTA :( maybe we can ask for them back?
If DC were going to move to a spot, that's where I'd put it unless there's a spot not yet lit. but I'm not sure they can fit full DMAs on a single transponder.

JohnH

11-06-02, 02:09 PM

Nashville nets are still there.

Tp 4 is not lit up in this area.

jhall

11-06-02, 02:14 PM

they came back some time yesterday afternoon/evening and remain. I wonder why they are there. no matter, I enjoy them, and enjoyed watching the election coverage of TN local stuff.

jhall

11-06-02, 09:07 PM

It looks like Buffalo, NY may be coming online. WKBW, WIVB, WGRZ, WUTV, and WNYO. but content isn't being uplinked yet, they're placemats? in the SDT and some of them are transmitting active EPG.

wrate

11-08-02, 07:50 PM

Has Dish added any new channels to E*8 at all in November, even if they are LIL in spot beams? Or is Dish done with E*8 and current channel/transponder configuration should be expected to last for a while?

JohnH

11-08-02, 08:11 PM

Jacksonville, Las Vegas and Buffalo to spots. Expect anything. :)

Darkman

11-08-02, 08:55 PM

another words - Expect the Unexpected :)

jhall

11-08-02, 09:33 PM

well BUF is still a placemat, so I guess the meal won't happen tonight for them. Jacksonville and Las Vegas are out of range for me.

TNGTony

11-11-02, 04:09 PM

Wrate,

Check the channel chart (www.dishchannelchart.com / http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm) at the bottom are the most recent changes and additions. There is also a link to the changes archive. They've added quite a few things.

I don't know what's happened since Friday. My ISP and phone company aren't playing nice together right now so I'm incommunicado (except from work) so I haven't been able to see what they have done over the weekend and into today.

Anyway, lots o additions. And they still have some spots to light up.

See ya
Tony

wrate

11-11-02, 06:05 PM

Tony, thanks a lot. The only channels I would be able to see, now that they've been moved to E*8 are Info and Info9. But I don't think they are available to regular subs. Also one of this channels has transp. 26 on E*8 as reference, yet there is no transp. 26 on E*8. Its probably transp. 16. Right?

Thanks for the information I will be checking the chart regularly.

RickD

11-13-02, 03:42 AM

Noticed that HBO Comedy is now on transponder 11?

JohnH

11-13-02, 08:36 AM

Well, PQ on some of the 110 channels should look better, They moved some around which resulted in Tps 11 and 15 now having some channels. Should see an improvement on all except locals, Starz/Encore themes and most of the Public Interest channels

wrate

11-13-02, 11:20 AM

Do you guys see a difference in transponder 13 on E*8 strength? I am in Mexico City, but I used to get 87 and this morning I was gettng 0!
Plus some of the Dish Latino channels and the Discovery Science channel are on this transponder now.

jhall

11-13-02, 11:30 AM

so what does it do when you try to tune these channels? Obviously if it really believes it is 0, you won't be able to receive them.

wrate

11-13-02, 11:38 AM

It displays the signal lost message. I did go into the signal strength menu and transponder 13 has 0 signal strenth now. :( I believe that transponder 13 was moved back to E*5 for some unknow reason.

axelmarzan

11-13-02, 07:52 PM

whats hapenning with the transp. 21,22,23 in 110 isnt suposed to be stronger at the moment?

jhall

11-13-02, 07:58 PM

Are you having problems with them?

axelmarzan

11-13-02, 08:02 PM

yeah actually all transponders from 2-20 are at 85-95 and these are like 50% or so

axelmarzan

11-13-02, 08:15 PM

whats the story about changing hd prgramming to 119
and anybody know anything about 921 arriving date

jhall

11-13-02, 09:37 PM

I am not aware E* is attempting to switch their HDTV to 119. Given that this bird is overpacked to the gills, I would not suspect such an occurrance would occur without the assistance of D*. Given that the merger likely will not go through, I don't see that happening unless some sort of peering agreement were to be established. It's an interesting idea, peering in the satellite business.

Interesting to see what would happen if D* decided to convert to the DVB open standards. Would the DOJ consider this a cartel or peering agreement?
A mess like that could destroy the Internet!