Help with 4:3 TV

[cjpink]

I received my HR20 yesterday to replace my non-HD Tivo. I have a CRT HD TV, which is in the 4:3 format. When I am watching an HD channel it is displayed in the widescreen or letterbox format. Supposedly, I can hit the format button to go to 1080 stretch or 1080 crop to fill the screen. No matter which format I choose, it does not fill the screen, that is, black bars are always on the top and bottom. When I choose 1080 stretch, it does stretch it a little more than letterbox, but still has bars on top and bottom. The only way to completely fill the screen is to choose 480i or 480p stretch or crop. Is this correct? Can I not completely fill my 4:3 screen with a 1080 HD channel?

Thank you in advance.

[redfiver]

I received my HR20 yesterday to replace my non-HD Tivo. I have a CRT HD TV, which is in the 4:3 format. When I am watching an HD channel it is displayed in the widescreen or letterbox format. Supposedly, I can hit the format button to go to 1080 stretch or 1080 crop to fill the screen. No matter which format I choose, it does not fill the screen, that is, black bars are always on the top and bottom. When I choose 1080 stretch, it does stretch it a little more than letterbox, but still has bars on top and bottom. The only way to completely fill the screen is to choose 480i or 480p stretch or crop. Is this correct? Can I not completely fill my 4:3 screen with a 1080 HD channel?

Thank you in advance.

A 4:3 screen can't show a 1080 channel. They are just different sizes. It will probably created bars on the top and bottom of the screen so you can see the picture in widescreen format. At least that's what my 4:3 tv does for my H20. I got the H20 for the bedroom that only has a 4:3 tv as I figured if I'm paying for HD content, I might as well see the HD stations on that TV as well. Soon I will upgrade the bedroom tv to an HDTV

[litzdog911]

If your 4:3 HDTV is like my Sony KV40XBR800, then any HiDef video (720p or 1080i) will always have black bars at the top and bottom. It's just the way it is. But if you set the HR20 to output 480i or 480p, then you can use the crop/stretch modes to fill your screen, even if the original video was letterboxed 720p or 1080i. It's actually much more flexible than my old HR10-250 HD Tivo in this regard.

[CCarncross]

The shape of an HD channel is 16:9, your tv is 4:3, the two rectangles are not the same shape. You can never fill the screen unless you want to distort the picture.4:3 HD tvs were the absolute worst idea on the planet, and the creator should be shot. People who purchased these abominations do get a break though, just tar and feathering.

;)

[veryoldschool]

The shape of an HD channel is 16:9, your tv is 4:3, the two rectangles are not the same shape. You can never fill the screen unless you want to distort the picture.4:3 HD tvs were the absolute worst idea on the planet, and the creator should be shot. People who purchased these abominations do get a break though, just tar and feathering.

;)
I'm not supposed to refer to shooting anybody, anymore, but I couldn't agree with you more. :D

To th OP: your choices are, 1) letterbox to see the complete image, or 2) crop to lose the sides of the image. 16:9 can't be displayed in 4:3 otherwise.
I have mine set to "crop" for my 4:3 set. FWIW

[cjpink]

I'm not supposed to refer to shooting anybody, anymore, but I couldn't agree with you more. :D

To th OP: your choices are, 1) letterbox to see the complete image, or 2) crop to lose the sides of the image. 16:9 can't be displayed in 4:3 otherwise.
I have mine set to "crop" for my 4:3 set. FWIW


I understand that 16:9 cannot fit in a 4:3 unless you stretch or crop it. However, when I try to either stretch or crop it (by hitting the format button) the 16:9 image still does not fill the screen. According to the pictoral instructions in the HR20 manual, a 16:9 source should fill the screen whenever you crop or stretch the image. I can only fill the screen if I choose 480i or 480p strech or crop, but then don't I lose the HD picture?

[veryoldschool]

I understand that 16:9 cannot fit in a 4:3 unless you stretch or crop it. However, when I try to either stretch or crop it (by hitting the format button) the 16:9 image still does not fill the screen. According to the pictorial instructions in the HR20 manual, a 16:9 source should fill the screen whenever you crop or stretch the image. I can only fill the screen if I choose 480i or 480p stretch or crop, but then don't I lose the HD picture?
So what do you have for your settings in the HR-20?
When you say you have an HDTV but it's a 4:3 screen, do you really have an HDTV? :confused:

The HR-20 doesn't let you change format in HD resolutions, so any changes in format would need to be made with your TV settings. FWIW

[machavez00]

I have seen 4:3 crt HDTVs at BB and CC. Advent is one I can think off the top of my head

[litzdog911]

I understand that 16:9 cannot fit in a 4:3 unless you stretch or crop it. However, when I try to either stretch or crop it (by hitting the format button) the 16:9 image still does not fill the screen. According to the pictoral instructions in the HR20 manual, a 16:9 source should fill the screen whenever you crop or stretch the image. I can only fill the screen if I choose 480i or 480p strech or crop, but then don't I lose the HD picture?

Only if your HR20 is set to output 480i/480p video resolution. Again, it's the TV that's placing the black bars across the top/bottom, not the DVR. Any time the TV sees 720p/1080i video, you'll get those black bars.

Of course, it's not HiDef if your HR20 is outputting 480i/480p, but it will still look better.

[cjpink]

So what do you have for your settings in the HR-20?
When you say you have an HDTV but it's a 4:3 screen, do you really have an HDTV? :confused:

The HR-20 doesn't let you change format in HD resolutions, so any changes in format would need to be made with your TV settings. FWIW

Yes, I bought a 27inch Panasonic Tau HDTV CRT several years ago. I dont think they even make many 4:3 HDTV CRTs anymore. In any case, it sounds like it is my TV that is prohibiting the 16:9 HD picture (e.g., ESPN HD) to be stretched or cropped to fill the screen. Since the manual says its possible, I guess its not the HR-20 thats stopping it. I've tried changing the settings in the TV, but haven't had any luck. The only way to fill the screen is to change to 480i or 480p crop or stretch, but then I lose the HD picture.

[KurtV]

Yes, I bought a 27inch Panasonic Tau HDTV CRT several years ago. I dont think they even make many 4:3 HDTV CRTs anymore. In any case, it sounds like it is my TV that is prohibiting the 16:9 HD picture (e.g., ESPN HD) to be stretched or cropped to fill the screen. Since the manual says its possible, I guess its not the HR-20 thats stopping it. I've tried changing the settings in the TV, but haven't had any luck. The only way to fill the screen is to change to 480i or 480p crop or stretch, but then I lose the HD picture.


Why would you want to fill the screen with a 16:9 source? To do that you either have to cut off the sides (thus losing a bunch of your picture) or stretch the picture vertically (thus distorting the picture. To me the least of the three evils (letterboxing, cropping, and vertical stretching) is the letterboxing.

By the way, do you have the proper screen ratio set in the HR20? I think it's under the display menu; you can select 16:9 or 4:3.

[packfan909]

Here is a good test to see if it is the TV or the DVR producing the bars.

In the HR20 Setup Menu, go to Display, and change the bar color to something other than Black. Grey, Dark Grey, just something else. If the color does not change than without a doubt it is your TV that is making the mods.

Hope that helps.

pf

[bonscott87]

I understand that 16:9 cannot fit in a 4:3 unless you stretch or crop it. However, when I try to either stretch or crop it (by hitting the format button) the 16:9 image still does not fill the screen. According to the pictoral instructions in the HR20 manual, a 16:9 source should fill the screen whenever you crop or stretch the image. I can only fill the screen if I choose 480i or 480p strech or crop, but then don't I lose the HD picture?

You can crop and stretch all day long on the HR20 and it's not going to do anything. Your *TV* is the one adding the bars on top and bottom. Use your TV's various crop and zoom modes if you want to fill most of the screen (at a loss of the information on the sides). But then what's the point of having HD at that point?

Having a 4x3 HDTV, this is just the way it is. If you send it a 1080i signal it will letterbox it so you see the entire 16x9 picture on the 4x3 screen. The HR20 1080i crop modes will just manipulate the 16x9 picture.

[veryoldschool]

I still wonder what the resolution is with a 4:3 CRT? Letterbox anything can't be 1080i...

[smolenski]

I still wonder what the resolution is with a 4:3 CRT? Letterbox anything can't be 1080i...

I still use my Toshiba 36HFX71. It supports and displays 480i, 480p, and 1080i. It is a true HD compatible display. Beautiful picture, if I do say so myself. I just started at Samsung here in Austin and my 46" LCD (LN-T4661F at an employee discount) will be ordered shortly.

[veryoldschool]

I still use my Toshiba 36HFX71. It supports and displays 480i, 480p, and 1080i. It is a true HD compatible display. Beautiful picture, if I do say so myself. I just started at Samsung here in Austin and my 46" LCD (LN-T4661F at an employee discount) will be ordered shortly.
I "see" a lot of truth in your posting, but "compatible" suggest it will "accept" HD, but doesn't mean display full resolution [on a 4:3] does it?
There was lots of marketing "crap" in the early days of HD. I bought a Sony RPTV [wide screen] that was "HD ready", except it would down convert 720p to 480 & then double it to 960, but it would show 1080i.

[IneedCCs]

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, during initial setup of the HR20 you have an option to select aspect ratio of your TV (16:9 or 4:3). If that's the case, you might want to re-do the setupof your HR20 and set aspect ratio for 4:3.

Disclaimer: I may be wrong! I'm relying on my memory of what I did when I setup my HR20 and, although it was only about 10 days ago, I may be remembering incorrectly. Also: If you do this, I'm pretty sure you're gonna lose everything in your Playlist (and all of your settings), you'll be starting from scratch.

If you want to do it, you might want to try to receive confirmation first that there is, in fact, an option to set your aspect ratio to 4:3 during setup.

Having said all that, here's how to do it (if you want to): Hit Menu, then Help & Settings, then Setup, then Reset, then Reset everything, then proceed to re-do your setup and select 4:3 for aspect ratio when you get to that step.

As I implied, I'm not as technologically well-versed as many of the people who post here, so I may be wrong. Just trying to help. As I said, you might want to get confirmation from someone who really knows this stuff before trying this. I think there's a guy named Milomenderbender or something like that here who really knows this stuff. Or Earl. You could PM either or both of them (or someone else, like a moderator) to see if what I'm saying is accurate.

[bobnielsen]

It's not necessary to do a full reset to change to 4:3:

Menu - Help & Settings - Setup - TV Type - Standard 4:3

[IneedCCs]

It's not necessary to do a full reset to change to 4:3:

Menu - Help & Settings - Setup - TV Type - Standard 4:3

Fair enough -- I stand corrected.

[smolenski]

I "see" a lot of truth in your posting, but "compatible" suggest it will "accept" HD, but doesn't mean display full resolution [on a 4:3] does it?

The Toshiba's of that line did display full 1080i, I believe.

[veryoldschool]

The Toshiba's of that line did display full 1080i, I believe.
But the OP was watching in letterbox, so "full" 1080 couldn't be "wide screen" [on a 4:3] & the letterbox suggests a decrease in the "1080" also with a 27" screen.
This is why I think the experience of "HD" is being limited.

[Titan25]

Here is a link to what I think is the TV in question: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-CT-27HL14-27-TAU-HDTV-Ready/dp/B00026WRFI

It will DISPLAY 1080i or 480p.

You can get the owners manual here: http://www.retrevo.com/search?q=Panasonic+CT-32HC14&terms=review+manual (link on the left side of the page)

According to the manual, on page 14, there is an aspect ratio setting on the TV. I'd try toggling that to see if you get it to crop the sides at 1080i.

You might also try setting the HR20 to native mode, and telling the HR20 that your TV supports 480p and 1080i only.

[ldmth44]

My Toshiba (see below) is a CRT HDTV. In order to watch the true 1080i resolution, I must set the TV's picture size setting to 'compression' (other choices are 'normal' and 'zoom'). I have my HR20 TV Type settings to '16:9 widescreen' and display settings set to 'native off', 'pillar box' and 'black' bars. Of course I get the bars at top and bottom of screen, but that does not bother me at all. When a non-HD show is broadcast, I have bars on top, bottom, and sides as well. I could change this by turning 'native on', but I am not concerned since I watch mostly sports and movies anyway. I've had this TV for appx. 3 years now since I could not afford a true HDTV at the time...but Christmas is coming!:D ;)