OTA Question

[Altron]

Hi I am new to the site. I have the HR20 with the OTA hooked up. I am able to get a great picture on 2 of the 4 channels I am supposed to be able to get. however I get a looking for signal 771 error on the other 2. when I go into the setup for the antenna and check strength for each channel I am registering 95-100 on all 4. Am I missing something. Thanks

[veryoldschool]

:welcome_s to the forum...

I'm not sure you're "missing something", but would guess it's more like getting too much.
Since you seem to have a strong signal, I would guess that it is a multi-path problem where you are getting the same signal from more than one point [a bounced signal] that does seem to be a weakness with the OTA tuner [and ATSC in general]. Using a more directional antenna and pointing it "better" is about all you can do, if this is the case.
Some times too strong a signal can also give you your problem too.

[Milominderbinder2]

VOS is right. You my friend have a bad case of multipath.

Only 4 HD channels sounds wrong. What market are you in? If you tell us your zip we can offer a lot more help.

A good directional antenna is key. Consider a directional antenna from one of these:

Winegard Antennas (http://www.solidsignal.com/winegard_antenna_chart.asp) → Channel Master Antennas (http://www.solidsignal.com/channelmaster_antenna_chart.asp) → Terk Antennas (http://www.solidsignal.com/manu_cat_display.asp?cat=TV%20Antennas&main_cat=03&manu=TERK)

Also, the whole problem might be solved with this:

20dB Variable Attenuator for VHF UHF HD Off-Air Reception (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=1296F).

But I think you have other problems as well. I bet your antenna is situated in a big reflector. The signal hits the antenna but also bounces in as well like an echo. If someone yells at you in a cave, you can't make out anything.

So is your antenna indoors? In an attic? A basement? Do you have buildings or other high reflectors around you?

- Craig

[Radio Enginerd]

VOS is right. You my friend have a bad case of multipath.

Only 4 HD channels sounds wrong. What market are you in? If you tell us your zip we can offer a lot more help.

A good directional antenna is key. Consider a directional antenna from one of these:

Winegard Antennas (http://www.solidsignal.com/winegard_antenna_chart.asp) → Channel Master Antennas (http://www.solidsignal.com/channelmaster_antenna_chart.asp) → Terk Antennas (http://www.solidsignal.com/manu_cat_display.asp?cat=TV%20Antennas&main_cat=03&manu=TERK)

Also, the whole problem might be solved with this:

20dB Variable Attenuator for VHF UHF HD Off-Air Reception (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=1296F).

But I think you have other problems as well. I bet your antenna is situated in a big reflector. The signal hits the antenna but also bounces in as well like an echo. If someone yells at you in a cave, you can't make out anything.

So is your antenna indoors? In an attic? A basement? Do you have buildings or other high reflectors around you?

- Craig

Ahhhhhhhh yes, great minds think alike! I was going to suggest an antennuator... If you're getting too much signal it should stabilize things a bit. Pick up a 6dB and 10dB attenuator at Radio Shack and give it a try...

[Altron]

Thanks for the replies, My zip code is 97603. The antenna is a directional style and it is mounted on the roof with no obstructions in the line of sight path to the tower that is broadcasting. I will try the attenuator.

[hasan]

Thanks for the replies, My zip code is 97603. The antenna is a directional style and it is mounted on the roof with no obstructions in the line of sight path to the tower that is broadcasting. I will try the attenuator.

Multi-path is not only caused by obstructions out front, but off to the side and in the rear. That said, how far are you from the transmitting towers? Have you looked at other channels near those in frequency that are analog?

For example:

You think you have multi-path problems. Tune to the various non-digital channels you currently receive. Do they have ghosting or are the sharp and clear (certainly not like HD, but good SD quality)? If you have ghosting, you probably have multi-path problems on some of your HD channels as well, and with the HR20 that could kill them. If you don't have ghosting, it doesn't mean you have no ghosting on the particular channels you use for HD, but it makes it less likely, especially if you have no ghosting whatsoever on any vhf or uhf channel (analog).

The test above requires you use a different TV tuner, of course as the HR20 has no analog receiver in it.

Then:

If you have no ghosting, but still get the 771 error, then it is possible that there is an error in the data being provided to D* by the Tribune company. If that data has the wrong freq info, then the HR20 will tune to the wrong channel ...but the signal test will still show a strong signal. I have 3 channels that I can't get. One particular channel 56-2 shows up at 80% in the signal meter, but gives a 771 error. This is CLEARLY a database error (frequency from Tribune that D* uses), that only D*/Tribune/Local Affiliate can fix.

In my system:

23-1 isn't in guide so I can't "tune to it".

34-1 is viewable, but the guide info is for 23-1 (wrong program info, right frequency), but the actual program material you see IS right for 34-1.

56-2 should be 56-1, shows on signal meter, gives 771 error when tuned to.

So, your situation cold be one of 3 things:

a. Signal too strong: try attenuator

b. Multi-path: do tests outlined above

c. Bad data: notify Earl on this forum with the particulars.

[Milominderbinder2]

Thanks for the replies, My zip code is 97603. The antenna is a directional style and it is mounted on the roof with no obstructions in the line of sight path to the tower that is broadcasting. I will try the attenuator.
OK, that helps a lot. Are there any surfaces on the sides or behind you that could reflect the signal, causing the multipath?

A variable attenuator let's you dial in the right amount for your case. You may find that 10 dB is too much and 6 is too little but 8 is just perfect. Using a 20 dB variable attenuator lets you reduce your signal from 10% to 90%. If you just want to try about 5db and see if that helps, just use a normal splitter you may already own.

As to what channel you can expect...

Antennaweb says that the most you can hope for is 3 channels:
29.1
2.1
8.1

The good thing is that antennaweb is almost always wrong and they do not disappoint in your case.

HDTVMagazine (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/broadcast.php) shows that depending upon terrain, obstructions, antenna height, etc, you might be able to receive:

2.1
2.2
8.1
8.3
8.7
22.1
22.3
26.1
26.2
31.1

Plus there are many more over 15 miles away but I don't know if you have a clear line of sight.

[veryoldschool]

OK, that helps a lot. Are there any surfaces on the sides or behind you that could reflect the signal, causing the multipath?
Location: Southern Oregon, so what do you think?
I think they're called the Cascades...:lol:

[Altron]

Thanks for the info guys. I am on the east side of the cascades however the signal I am supposed to receive is coming from the west side and the repeater that antenna web has me point at is direct line of site about 5 miles away.

[veryoldschool]

Thanks for the info guys. I am on the east side of the cascades however the signal I am supposed to receive is coming from the west side and the repeater that antenna web has me point at is direct line of site about 5 miles away.
Five miles isn't much [small antenna].
Do all of your channels have a repeater?
Are you in a valley?

[Altron]

Ok, here is what I did. I hooked the antenna directly to the tv bypassing the HR20 and My TV detected a bunch of Digital channels all except the one I was hoping for. Channel 2.1 has been my nemesis. I got channels 2, 2.2, 7, 22.1, 22.2, 22.3 and quite a few more. 2.1 is the one I am really trying to get since it is the NBC HD channel that I can't get a waiver for. I get the analog NBC but not in HD. Veryold school, I am not in a valley but a basin. The tower I am pointing at is on top of a mountain about 1,000 feet above my house.

[veryoldschool]

Ok, here is what I did. I hooked the antenna directly to the tv bypassing the HR20 and My TV detected a bunch of Digital channels all except the one I was hoping for. Channel 2.1 has been my nemesis. I got channels 2, 2.2, 7, 22.1, 22.2, 22.3 and quite a few more. 2.1 is the one I am really trying to get since it is the NBC HD channel that I can't get a waiver for. I get the analog NBC but not in HD. Veryold school, I am not in a valley but a basin. The tower I am pointing at is on top of a mountain about 1,000 feet above my house.
So I guess the analog NBC comes in nice & clear? No ghosting?
If this is the case, it should point to overdriving the HR-20 tuner & using an attenuator should help.
Strange that you can get 2.2, but not 2.1, since they are all part of the same signal. :confused:
This might point to the D" database [errors] as being the reason, since this is where the frequencies come from for the HR-20 to tune to.

VOS

[baesterling]

I have to say that I had MANY problems with audio dropouts and pixelization even though my signal strength was at or near 100%. When I added an attenuator and dropped the signal strength below 100%, all of my problems disappeared. This tuner is very sensitive to multipath and strong signal strength. I have read many places that this receiver does just as badly at high signal strengths as low strenths. It seems to like it somewhere in between. It seems like an attenuator is a must for this receiver to get just the right amount of signal to the HR20.

[veryoldschool]

It seems like an attenuator is a must for this receiver to get just the right amount of signal to the HR20.
You would have to agree with: "in some locations" it..... right? :)

[baesterling]

You would have to agree with: "in some locations" it..... right? :)

Sure. If you are having problems with audio or video, this could be a possible solution to consider.

[houskamp]

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=77279

[Altron]

I found out something interesting today. The reason I am not able to get channel 2-1 NBCHD over the air is because the station is still waiting on equipment to be able to broadcast in HD so all I can get for now is 2-2 SD until sometime in late May. So the big question is, why did they deny my waiver request for NBC HD via satelite, stating that I could receive it over the air over 2 years ago? I think that a local affiliate should be able to prove that you can receive or that they even broadcast HD before denying a waiver.

[John4924]

I found out something interesting today. The reason I am not able to get channel 2-1 NBCHD over the air is because the station is still waiting on equipment to be able to broadcast in HD so all I can get for now is 2-2 SD until sometime in late May. So the big question is, why did they deny my waiver request for NBC HD via satelite, stating that I could receive it over the air over 2 years ago? I think that a local affiliate should be able to prove that you can receive or that they even broadcast HD before denying a waiver.

We had a very similar situation here in New Orleans. The local NBC affiliate would NOT allow waivers to anyone to receive the national station. Is there another NBC affiliate farther away that you could pick up with an outdoor antenna? This is what I did to pick up a station from Baton Rouge 70 miles away. Of course there are no mountains around New Orleans! :lol:

Post your zip and others around here may be able to give some additional advice on what to try? :)

Cheers,
John