View Full Version : D* Downrezzing NESN HD to 720P?
Janney66
04-17-07, 06:34 PM
So I noticed tonight that the MPEG4 feed of NESN HD (available to some of us in the Boston DMA) is being broadcast in 720p. Interestingly enough the NESN HD feed provided on channel 731 for the MLB EI package is in 1080i, as NESN HD is supposed to be. Why would D* broadcast NESN HD in 720p when it should be 1080i?
twistedT
04-17-07, 06:38 PM
Is the game on 95 broadcast by NESN HD, the same as 731?
Janney66
04-17-07, 06:44 PM
Is the game on 95 broadcast by NESN HD, the same as 731?
Yes
bwaldron
04-17-07, 09:38 PM
So I noticed tonight that the MPEG4 feed of NESN HD (available to some of us in the Boston DMA) is being broadcast in 720p. Interestingly enough the NESN HD feed provided on channel 731 for the MLB EI package is in 1080i, as NESN HD is supposed to be. Why would D* broadcast NESN HD in 720p when it should be 1080i?
Who knows? Possibly it is a workaround for some MPEG4 encoding issue? Here in Tampa, I've noticed the opposite -- our RSN games in MPEG4 on 96 that should be in 720p are often sent as 1080i.
Steve Robertson
04-18-07, 05:32 AM
So I noticed tonight that the MPEG4 feed of NESN HD (available to some of us in the Boston DMA) is being broadcast in 720p. Interestingly enough the NESN HD feed provided on channel 731 for the MLB EI package is in 1080i, as NESN HD is supposed to be. Why would D* broadcast NESN HD in 720p when it should be 1080i?
I noticed this a few weeks back and thought it was the HR 20 acting up. I have noticed the PQ is not what it used to be and now I think I know why.
jimmyv2000
04-18-07, 07:40 AM
I noticed this a few weeks back and thought it was the HR 20 acting up. I have noticed the PQ is not what it used to be and now I think I know why.
i noticed this too the PQ wasnt as good on last nights sox game:confused:
Steve Robertson
04-18-07, 07:48 AM
i noticed this too the PQ wasnt as good on last nights sox game:confused:
It is funny you mention that as I have always though the PQ out of Toronto was never really good. I am not sure why maybe the lighting or something but I have always found the PQ to be lacking up there.
I have only had NESN HD for about 6 weeks now and it is not as good as when I first got it and it could be because D* is messing around with it. I don't understand if in fact this is the case why D* has to mess with something that is in MPEG 4 but what do I know?
jimmyv2000
04-18-07, 09:26 AM
at least its not ghosting like WMUR ABC-9 in Manchester(SD)
Isn't 720p supposed to be better for sports than 1080i?
Steve Robertson
04-18-07, 10:27 AM
Isn't 720p supposed to be better for sports than 1080i?
Supposedly but I like 1080i better this is a debate that has gone on forever. The problem I see is that D* is downrezing the signal from 1080i to 720p and that can't be a good thing
bwaldron
04-18-07, 11:43 AM
Isn't 720p supposed to be better for sports than 1080i?
In general, and in theory, yes. Particularly for fast action. However, some of the best HD sports broadcasts I've seen have been in 1080i.
Regardless, the advantages would not apply with D* converting a native 1080i broadcast into 720p.
There have been a lot of issues/problems across the country with the MPEG4 RSNs, and D* is still working them out.
brewer4
04-18-07, 11:48 AM
Supposedly but I like 1080i better this is a debate that has gone on forever. The problem I see is that D* is downrezing the signal from 1080i to 720p and that can't be a good thing
Its a good thing if you saw the first few months of NESN HD on D*. The 8mm issue was horrendous and even unwatchable. At least NESN HD looks good and looks HD regardless of HD Lite, 720p, compressed or whatever we want to call it. I am just glad its at least an option over SD.
Steve Robertson
04-18-07, 12:17 PM
Its a good thing if you saw the first few months of NESN HD on D*. The 8mm issue was horrendous and even unwatchable. At least NESN HD looks good and looks HD regardless of HD Lite, 720p, compressed or whatever we want to call it. I am just glad its at least an option over SD.
I hear what you are saying but if in fact they are converting a 1080i signal to 720p than we are getting screwed again. Like I said earlier the 1st few weeks I had it I thought it looked great then 1 night I noticed the box was on 720p and not 1080i and the PQ was not as sharp but blew ity off that the box was a little messed up after software upgrades but now almost 4 weeks into this and watching Sox and Bruins games I can say it is not what it once was. I hope they correct this soon.
oldschoolecw
04-18-07, 03:27 PM
I notest last week the change from 1080i to 720p on NESN HD and it does not look that bad at all. But I would rather 1080i
Steve Robertson
04-19-07, 05:36 AM
I notest last week the change from 1080i to 720p on NESN HD and it does not look that bad at all. But I would rather 1080i
Ok so they have made the switch to 720P I take it?
machavez00
04-19-07, 06:45 AM
The only HD MPEG4 feeds at this time are the HD locals. The National MPEG4 feeds won't happen until the new birds go up I have noticed that the HD channels in the 90's have been 720p. D* was running episodes of the Tudors and they were 720P
srq2msp
04-19-07, 10:46 AM
I watched the Sox- Jays game the other night and thought the picture didnt look very good. I actually wrote to NESN and asked if they broadcast in 720p or 1080I. They responded the next day and said it's 1080i. So its not your eyes it must be d*.
Steve Robertson
04-19-07, 10:52 AM
I watched the Sox- Jays game the other night and thought the picture didnt look very good. I actually wrote to NESN and asked if they broadcast in 720p or 1080I. They responded the next day and said it's 1080i. So its not your eyes it must be d*.
I agree the games in Toronto aren't that good. I sent an email to NESN as well to find out what was going on. It looks like D* is the culprit hear what a surprise!!!
bwaldron
04-19-07, 12:47 PM
The only HD MPEG4 feeds at this time are the HD locals. The National MPEG4 feeds won't happen until the new birds go up I have noticed that the HD channels in the 90's have been 720p. D* was running episodes of the Tudors and they were 720P
The HD channels in the 90's will send either 720p or 1080i, depending on the programming source...but sometimes it does seem that there is transcoding going on for some reason.
wyatt9696
04-19-07, 03:14 PM
i was told today by a 2nd tier csr, that they downrezzed it to 720p to conserve bandwidth until the new sats go up. take it for what it's worth.
Steve Robertson
04-19-07, 03:21 PM
i was told today by a 2nd tier csr, that they downrezzed it to 720p to conserve bandwidth until the new sats go up. take it for what it's worth.
Why am I not surprised? What I don't understand is the fact that is on the MPEG 4 systems so why should they have problems with bandwidth?
bwaldron
04-19-07, 05:01 PM
i was told today by a 2nd tier csr, that they downrezzed it to 720p to conserve bandwidth until the new sats go up. take it for what it's worth.
It's not worth much ;)
Does it really matter? The human eye can't distinquish between 720p and 1080i.
Steve Robertson
04-20-07, 06:15 AM
Does it really matter? The human eye can't distinquish between 720p and 1080i.
That maybe true when there is no downrezing going on but I noticed the difference a few weeks back so yes it does make a difference
You now how sometimes the HD Locals display a show in SD, even though it's an HD show. FOX seems to have the most problem. Then partially into the show the HD signal comes back. Do you think this is happening with this signal?
I've only seen a couple of Sox games on channel 95, even though I'm in CT, so far what I've seen the channel looked good.
Side Note: I just started received YES-HD and SNY-HD, a couple of days ago, but still no NESN, which is the only channel I really care about. Additionally yesterday's Sox game was only on my SD 623, not channel 95. The sucky Yankees were on both 622-HD and channel 95. Go figure.
machavez00
04-20-07, 06:35 AM
Why am I not surprised? What I don't understand is the fact that is on the MPEG 4 systems so why should they have problems with bandwidth?
Unless you are talking about an HD LIL, as far as I know all current D* HD channels are MPEG2
Does it really matter? The human eye can't distinquish between 720p and 1080i.
What do you base that on?
CBS football broadcasts (1080i) are head and shoulders clearer than Fox's (720p). I can tell whose broadcast I'm looking at simply by looking at any wide view of the stadium.
JohnMav
04-20-07, 06:53 AM
Unless you are talking about an HD LIL, as far as I know all current D* HD channels are MPEG2
I believe local RSNs are also MPEG 4
Steve Robertson
04-20-07, 07:13 AM
I believe local RSNs are also MPEG 4
Yes that is correct.
What do you base that on?
CBS football broadcasts (1080i) are head and shoulders clearer than Fox's (720p). I can tell whose broadcast I'm looking at simply by looking at any wide view of the stadium.
No kidding it is like night and day. I also think the CFB games blow away the NFL games that CBS does as well.
There are numerous articles on this. Here's a few:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0079/t.1990.html
http://broadcastengineering.com/infrastructure/broadcasting_hdtv_displays/
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/31018
The main factor is the quality of the originating source, your equipment and the distance you're away from the display. Have you seen an old movie, like from the 1970's that is being broadcast as 1080i? It still looks bad even though the resolution is at 1080.
There are numerous articles on this. Here's a few:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/pages/s.0079/t.1990.html
http://broadcastengineering.com/infrastructure/broadcasting_hdtv_displays/
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/31018
The main factor is the quality of the originating source, your equipment and the distance you're away from the display. Have you seen an old movie, like from the 1970's that is being broadcast as 1080i? It still looks bad even though the resolution is at 1080.
On a 55 inch TV, I can tell an obvious difference between 720p and 1080i, regardless of whether it is ESPN or Fox doing the 720p.
wyatt9696
04-20-07, 03:36 PM
i noticed a difference as soon as hey started downrezzing to 720p much softer pq, not as defined. so imo, the naked eye can see a difference in the 2 res.
Janney66
06-01-07, 09:50 PM
Anyone notice that NESN HD is back to 1080i? Of course now I notice it gets a little "jumpy" every so often.
bwaldron
06-01-07, 11:55 PM
Anyone notice that NESN HD is back to 1080i? Of course now I notice it gets a little "jumpy" every so often.
I've seen that occasional "jumpiness" on other providers -- I have a Star Choice subscription, and see it on the NESN-HD games that Rogers Sportsnet carries. I've also seen it via cable when I'm visiting family in NE. Some games don't have the problem...others have it so much that it's truly annoying. But I think it is a NESN problem, not specific to D*.
blademaster
06-04-07, 02:09 AM
Is channel 95 a subscrption based channel? Im not getting it and yes i have a hd receiver h20.
CoachGibbs
07-07-07, 07:32 PM
I see D* is back to downrezzing NESNHD to 720p. The difference in PQ is quite noticeable. As someone who doesn't trust D* much at all, I wonder if we'll see more of this type of nonsense with the new HD channels in Sept.
tonyd79
07-07-07, 10:06 PM
It is 1080i on the EI version of NESN tonight. Do they run different resolutions for the normally slotted channel and EI? It seems to me that the HD on EI has been native to the source....
CoachGibbs
07-08-07, 05:56 AM
It is 1080i on the EI version of NESN tonight. Do they run different resolutions for the normally slotted channel and EI? It seems to me that the HD on EI has been native to the source....
No they don't. They've had NESNHD in MPEG4 at 1080i for the past month and half or so. There is no reason to downrezz it to 720p. It was the only decent looking HD channel on D* and now it's crap like the rest of them.
tonyd79
07-08-07, 09:04 AM
I am confused.
You said they have changed it to 720p (which is not downrezzing but changing is not good anyway) and that it is the same stream as the one on EI yet the one on EI was 1080i at the time you were bitching.
Soooo, what are you bitching about? It was 1080i, not 720p..so they weren't changing it???
CoachGibbs
07-08-07, 01:23 PM
I am confused.
You said they have changed it to 720p (which is not downrezzing but changing is not good anyway) and that it is the same stream as the one on EI yet the one on EI was 1080i at the time you were bitching.
Soooo, what are you bitching about? It was 1080i, not 720p..so they weren't changing it???
No, the MPEG4 channel is being shown at 720p now, not the EI channel.
tonyd79
07-08-07, 01:34 PM
No, the MPEG4 channel is being shown at 720p now, not the EI channel.
Oh. Now I understand. Although when you go from MPEG2 to MPEG4, it is already non-native. (Not pass-thru.) Wonder what additional affect there is.
BTW, the picture is messy today on MPEG2. But then NESN is probably beholden to the local folks when on the road.
CoachGibbs
07-09-07, 05:34 AM
Oh. Now I understand. Although when you go from MPEG2 to MPEG4, it is already non-native. (Not pass-thru.) Wonder what additional affect there is.
BTW, the picture is messy today on MPEG2. But then NESN is probably beholden to the local folks when on the road.
At 1080i, the MPEG4 version of NESNHD was sharp with only occasional hiccups. At 720p, it's really fuzzy and lacks detail.
Agreed. Had an HR20 installed last week and am not at all happy w/NESN HD. Yesterday was very fuzzy and not sharp at all.
I think that all the NESN broadcasts this weekend were of poor quality HD. I'm not sure if that 's DTV's fault or if it's related to the fact that they were on the road and at the mercy of what the Tigers had to offer the visiting teams network. Maybe all Tigers game have poor HD?
compnurd
07-09-07, 02:39 PM
It could have been that they were out of market but regardless i prefer 720p over 1080i
CBS football broadcasts (1080i) are head and shoulders clearer than Fox's (720p). I can tell whose broadcast I'm looking at simply by looking at any wide view of the stadium.
Many of the Fox so-called HD NFL broadcasts were not in true HD. They were upconverting SD feeds from the game to 720P. Upconverted HD will never look as good as true HD, whether its 1080i or 720p.
tonyd79
07-09-07, 05:22 PM
Many of the Fox so-called HD NFL broadcasts were not in true HD. They were upconverting SD feeds from the game to 720P. Upconverted HD will never look as good as true HD, whether its 1080i or 720p.
I think they only did that for a maximum of one game per week (when they went over 6) and it was widescreen only to the local teams, not on NFL ST.
CoachGibbs
07-10-07, 05:27 AM
I might be wrong or it could be a coincidence, but I think I figured out what's going on here. When NESN (MPEG4 version) was at 1080i, the channel/slide for FSNEHD (ch 96) was at 720p. Now the D* slide on 96 is at 1080i and NESN is at 720p. I assume they share the same transponder.
Steve Robertson
07-13-07, 07:20 AM
I have to say I have noticed a big difference in PQ and am not very happy about it. I am really getting tired of D* and their antics and if things don't change come Sept then FIOS will be an option for me. I have the new slimline dish that I find not to be all that hot with rain fade and what not. I do have a tech coming out tomorrow to adjust the dish but this is such a pain in the ass having to wait around a 4 hour window for him to hopefully show up. I have wasted many hours of my life on D* issues in the past and getting to the point of just saying screw it and move on. I have been with them 11 years now and the hook is ST but even that is getting to the point of not having much value anymore and also way to expensive.
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