More DirecTV HD coming?

[crankin]

I this has probably been discussed a lot, but what is the latest news on when/ if DirecTV will be expanding their HD lineup (not just locals)? I thought I read somewhere that this fall they would be adding some 70 channels but I don't remember where I saw that. It'd really be nice if they added some channels... Dish currently has a much better selection.

[RAD]

I this has probably been discussed a lot, but what is the latest news on when/ if DirecTV will be expanding their HD lineup (not just locals)? I thought I read somewhere that this fall they would be adding some 70 channels but I don't remember where I saw that. It'd really be nice if they added some channels... Dish currently has a much better selection.

This has been discussed NUMEROUS times in many threads. Bottom line is nothing new until at least DirecTV 10 or 11 satellites make it to orbit and are operational. D10 is planned to launch sometime in June but D11 is delayed due to SeaLaunch having a failure on their last launch that damaged the launch platform and not schedule to be able to resume launches until 4th QTR this year.

[Tom Robertson]

I this has probably been discussed a lot, but what is the latest news on when/ if DirecTV will be expanding their HD lineup (not just locals)? I thought I read somewhere that this fall they would be adding some 70 channels but I don't remember where I saw that. It'd really be nice if they added some channels... Dish currently has a much better selection.

Welcome to the forums, crankin. :welcome_s

Cheers,
Tom

[fl_dba]

From DailyTech.com:

DIRECTV today won a federal court case against Time Warner Cable over a TV commercial that claims DIRECT will "soon" have more HD channels compared to cable providers. The case was officially thrown out because Time Warner was unable to show sufficient evidence that DIRECTV's "coming soon" claims were untrue.

The judge who dismissed the case stated that, "[Time Warner] failed to demonstrate any prospect of success in claiming that the capacity claim is unsupported by the report."

Time Warner filed a false-advertising lawsuit against DIRECTV in February, with an injunction against the commercial as one of the stipulations of the suit.

The commercial in question features Christopher Lloyd, star of the Back to the Future trilogy, who says he forgot to tell Marty McFly that DIRECT's service has "all the best channels, and soon, they'll have three times more HD capacity than cable!"

An injunction against DIRECTV would have forced the commercial off of the air. "We are disappointed in the ruling but remain confident that we will prevail at trial. These DIRECTV ads clearly misinterpret the independent repor they cite and, more important, they are factually false," Time Warner Cable said in a statement.

DIRECT currently can offer HD channels to more than 70 percent of households in the United States. The company claims that it will have 100 additional HD stations by the end of 2007.

[IneedCCs]

My understanding is that there will be more HD channels come September, but don't take that as the gospel, I can't say with certainty that that's the case.

As I understand it, several RSNs will go CONUS in September, and a few channels will become available in HD (CNN, FX, SciFi and USA to name a few). The list of new channels isn't very long, about seven as I recall.

I also heard that STZ and MAX will become available in HD later this year. I believe that FMC and ENC were also on the list I saw.

Can anyone confirm the accuracy of this? I'd also like to know if there are any plans to make channels like HBO2 and MAX2 available in HD. Sure would be nice to get Sundance and IFC in HD, but I haven't heard anything about that happening.

I know that "100" new channels stuff is misleading, as, I'm sure, it includes the RSNs, maybe even locals. In the real world, it looks like about seven new channels in September, which I'll take. If they add STZ and MAX, so much the better. Adding some ancillary premium channels (e.g., MAX2, HBO2) would be icing on the cake. Adding Sundance and/or IFC would really be great, but I don't think that's likely in the foreseeable future. If anyone's heard otherwise, I'd love to hear about it!

[hambonewd]

7 "real world" channels in september? where do you get that?

[Tom Robertson]

I don't know about you, but from the news release (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=948332&highlight=) at CES this appears to be more than "7":


-- A&E -- National Geographic
-- Bravo -- NFL Network
-- Cartoon Network -- SciFi Channel
-- CNN -- Speed
-- Food Network -- TBS
-- FX -- The History Channel
-- HGTV -- The Weather Channel
-- MTV -- USA Network


And this quote: To satisfy the insatiable appetite for a greater number of movies in HD, DIRECTV will offer an expanded line-up of HD programming available from all premium movie channels.

Yes, RSNs are counted in the 100, which to me is appropriate as they are national, real channels mostly 24/7.

Unfortunately, the 100 count includes some seasonal channels for sports carriage, but there are planned over 70 channels that are "real" near as I can tell. And that still is awesome, I think. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[hambonewd]

yes i am with you tom

[Tom Robertson]

yes i am with you tom

Here, I thought I was with you. :D

Cheers,
Tom

[harsh]

I don't know about you, but from the news release (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=948332&highlight=) at CES this appears to be more than "7":


-- A&E -- National Geographic
-- Bravo -- NFL Network
-- Cartoon Network -- SciFi Channel
-- CNN -- Speed
-- Food Network -- TBS
-- FX -- The History Channel
-- HGTV -- The Weather Channel
-- MTV -- USA Network
Of which only six currently exist in HD form. Announcements of plans and delivery of product are two decidedly different animals. The record for CES announcements hasn't been stellar for many who made them at CES the last few years. The current line is that there will be "up to 70".And this quote:

Yes, RSNs are counted in the 100, which to me is appropriate as they are national, real channels mostly 24/7.More than half of the HD RSNs don't show more than two events per day. Some go more than a day without an HD event.

[RAD]

Bla, bla, bla, same old Harsh response.

So yes the networks mentioned don't exist right at this very moment but those same networks are supposed to have agreements in place to start the HD channels and make them available to D*. You keep saying this same thing over and over and over again. How about you clam up until after D10 go operational and we see what D* does or doesn't do. If D* doesn't deliver on their promise then come back and rag them and I'll be in line right behind you. Why don't you go over to the E* side and keep asking why Charlie doesn't have ALL the had channels that are available now up and available to customer if they have all the bandwidth available to match what D* says they're going to do?

As for your RSN comment, so you're saying it's a waste to have HD RSN's if they show only a couple events per day? I'm sure a large number of sports fans would take exception with your opinion.

[ScoBuck]

Of which only six currently exist in HD form. Announcements of plans and delivery of product are two decidedly different animals. The record for CES announcements hasn't been stellar for many who made them at CES the last few years. The current line is that there will be "up to 70".More than half of the HD RSNs don't show more than two events per day. Some go more than a day without an HD event.

I am sincerely not sure why it bothers you SO MUCH that a company makes PLANS - and that they share parts of them with their customers and the public in general.

I really don't get you at all. That plus the fact that you seem to spend so much time in the DirecTV area - being a DISH customer and all.

[ScoBuck]

Bla, bla, bla, same old Harsh response.


As for your RSN comment, so you're saying it's a waste to have HD RSN's if they show only a couple events per day? I'm sure a large number of sports fans would take exception with your opinion. maybe that's why DISH only has 7 or so.

[harsh]

I am sincerely not sure why it bothers you SO MUCH that a company makes PLANS - and that they share parts of them with their customers and the public in general.I think it is great that they make plans. That so many seem to like to quote the (outdated) plans as deliverables is what gets sideways with me.I really don't get you at all. That plus the fact that you seem to spend so much time in the DirecTV area - being a DISH customer and all.There aren't enough Dish customers making spectacular claims based on old press releases, I guess. E* has been delivering things without a whole lot of advanced notice lately.

[ScoBuck]

I think it is great that they make plans. That so many seem to like to quote the (outdated) plans as deliverables is what gets sideways with me.There aren't enough Dish customers making spectacular claims based on old press releases, I guess. E* has been delivering things without a whole lot of advanced notice lately.

How is E* doiing with all the HD lils they promised over a year ago? Seems I read an awful lot in the DISH threads of people looking for their 'promised' locals. I also see lots of posts about the 'shutout' that was pitched against them in MLB, and the lack of RSN-HD offerings as well.

Bottom line is if you want to find fault with EITHER - it's not too difficult.

[DawgLink]

I guess. E* has been delivering things without a whole lot of advanced notice lately.

:lol:

Oh man, those poor dish people. So little choices, so little of a future.

Love my sports and locals in HD

[harsh]

How is E* doiing with all the HD lils they promised over a year ago?Dish Network had a goal of more than 50% of the households according to their 2006 CES press release (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=801106&highlight=). I think they came very close to reaching that goal if they didn't exceed it. There was also mention of "up to" (there's that nasty term again) 50 markets, but they didn't even come close. They did manage to add the 5 Voom channels as well as ESPN2-HD and Universal HD.

By way of comparison, the DirecTV 2006 CES press release (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=799955&highlight=) announced, among other things:DirecTV2Go -- not yet A service for portable media players -- is this part of DirecTV2Go? Professional Home Theatre System -- the greatest mystery of our time? On-demand (beginning first quarter 2006) -- Summer '07? R15 "the most advanced DVR available on the market" with interactive capability and ability to deliver on-demand content -- you're joking, right? 36 HD markets in first half of year -- 26 markets HR20 at retail mid 2006 -- missed by a few monthsBut all that is ancient history. It is a really bad idea to bet the farm on what is announced at CES. It is an even worse thing to brag about things claimed at a bygone CES that have been more recently updated.

[RAD]

And just to keep things equal and fair, things that Dish announced that haven't happened, either during Charlie Chats, CES or the actual product announcement that I can remember off the top of my head:

- OpenTV interface on the Dish 6000 STB (box even had the logo on the back panel)
- Name Based Recording on the 501/508/510 DVR's
- Superdish needed for HD programming, never mind we'll put all HD on 110/119, no need for wing slots anymore
- The 921 DVR will have DishWire to allow for copying material to D-VHS tape decks
- External disk drive support on the 622

So both companies have a habit of announcing something then either not following through or having it delayed. So should D* customer keep bringing up items like this in the E* forums when subjects similar to this one are being discussed?

[harsh]

And just to keep things equal and fair, things that Dish announced that haven't happened, either during Charlie Chats, CES or the actual product announcement that I can remember off the top of my head:The "terms of engagement" as established by ScoBuck seemed to have been the 2006 CES. I was limiting my discussion to announcements made there for that reason and because it furthers my caveat of not putting too much stock in what it announced at CES.

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not very happy with the the marketroids who seem to have no problem making announcements that the other departments are having trouble with or physically cannot deliver. I don't mean to slight the engineers, programmers and negotiators as I know their job is made much more difficult by the PR people announcing a delivery dates left and right.

[BudShark]

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not very happy with the the marketroids who seem to have no problem making announcements that the other departments are having trouble with or physically cannot deliver. I don't mean to slight the engineers, programmers and negotiators as I know their job is made much more difficult by the PR people announcing a delivery dates left and right.

So - based on where this thread started and your statement above, you seem to have inside knowledge regarding the future of D10 satellite...

Apparently since they "are having trouble with or physically can't deliver" you are implying D10 won't make it up. Otherwise, Directv stated when D10 and D11 go up, they will rapidly expand their HD offerring. In addition, not only did D* announce agreements for carriage of these channels, many of the channels themselves have had press releases stating they will launch with D*. So what exactly is D* NOT delivering on when it comes to this threads topic? The dates may change for when D10 and D11 go up - but D* always stated this will happen WHEN D10 goes up and here's when we think that will happen. And the state of D10 is public knowledge.

So based on "rules of engagement" stick to the thread, stick to the topic, and stick to facts when it comes to additional HD channels. Sorry you picked the wrong bus to board - but enjoy your VOOM channels until you can accept D* into your life.

Chris

[RAD]

The "terms of engagement" as established by ScoBuck seemed to have been the 2006 CES. I was limiting my discussion to announcements made there for that reason and because it furthers my caveat of not putting too much stock in what it announced at CES.

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not very happy with the the marketroids who seem to have no problem making announcements that the other departments are having trouble with or physically cannot deliver. I don't mean to slight the engineers, programmers and negotiators as I know their job is made much more difficult by the PR people announcing a delivery dates left and right.

OK, so that's the rules, I thought it was a generalization about compaines missing dates.

As someone that used to have to project dates for management on projects, that then had to make commitments to our internal and external customers I can understand how dates can slip, especially when you are counting on external partners to deliver on the dates provided to you. So if you're talking only about the 2006 CES announcement back then that's most likely what D*'s vendors were telling them. Now without having access to the internal timelines that they based these announcements on it's hard to place blame on D*. I know we can blame SeaLaunch for part of the delay due to the 'malfunction' at the last launch. Since Boeing still has D10 even if ILS has a launch vehicle ready now they couldn't launch it.

For the HD LIL's, yep they blew that one also. But as a D* customer that got HD LIL's last fall I think I can say the reason for the delay was bad hardware on the D* side. Two of the stations in Austin had the "8mm" effect that had also been noted in a number of other HD LIL's cities. So I'd have to guess that D* stopped the rollout until they could get the existing cities fixed before starting up the rollout again, which they are now doing.

As for your dislike of corporate PR machines, according to a poll I started asking if people wanted to know what the plans are or to just be surprised http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=85313, 72% of the responders said they wanted to know the plans, so I'd have to say that you are in the miniority on this issue.

[Tom Robertson]

At this point, we must remember:
More HD is coming for both companies. I know DIRECTVs plans much better, but it seems they will have a lead as I think they have more total licenses.
Both companies have had failures
Both companies have had delays on things that will eventually complete
CES is both for announcements and trial balloons
Both companies have good and viable business plans
and that we need to stay on topic


So keep looking at HD is coming, not at what isn't HD or not coming...

Thanks,
Tom

[ScoBuck]

The "terms of engagement" as established by ScoBuck seemed to have been the 2006 CES.

Its about time you stop putting words in my mouth.

You are the one that wants to frame EVERY conversation, and then when you're wrong weasel out of it. I never mentioned ANY spcific "terms of engagement" - but if you want to AGAIN (since we already went thru this) know - I am quoting AGAIN from the 12/06 Charlie Chat - and the very source YOU PONTED ME TO when I asked a question about DISH lils. - the EKB. The EKB lists MANY markets announced to be launched in 2006. A name specifically mentioned for MAY 2006 was Indianapolis - for a time uplinked but NEVER turned on. So you're wrong - I am not in any way refereing to 2006 CES.

Also their public press releases state OVER 50% - NOT up to 50%. Please learn to read - ansd stop trying to get yourself out of mis-spoken posts.

[harsh]

Its about time you stop putting words in my mouth.I made an incorrect assumption. I assumed that you were referring to press releases that were splattered all over the media and the Internet versus your interpretation of a third party summary of a closed-circuit news program.Also their public press releases state OVER 50% - NOT up to 50%. Please learn to read - Re-read my post and you'll find that I used the phrase "more than 50% of the households" and later made reference to "up to 50 markets" as the press release stated.

Again, as tibber points out, that's all water under the bridge and this thread is not for re-hashing our failed assumptions and false attributions.

The main topic is getting DirecTV 10 in place. At the moment, we don't know a date and that's a little troubling given that Sirius 4 seems to have been assigned a date in early July. According to anik, there are Baikonur launches planned for "end of May" and July 7th. This is what lead me to theorize that a window is open in mid June.

[Tom Robertson]

Hey harsh,

Do the dnepr and proton M share the same launch pad and/or assembly building? That seems a key factor to me.

Cheers,
Tom

[Happy Camper]

We have had DirecTV from the start and will be keeping our DirecTV for a while longer.

I have learned that the best course to follow is just to believe new channels when you see them on the guide, and to believe in new hardware when it is set up in your house and working. Under all the many different owners, D* marketing guys have always overpromised and D* has under delivered.

When you see it, it will be here, and all the hysterical rumor mills and White Knights won't accelerate or delay what you get. In general, take whatever D* predicts and add from six months to a year and you'll be about right.

[harsh]

Do the dnepr and proton M share the same launch pad and/or assembly building? That seems a key factor to me.Here's a cool Flash toy: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/baikonur.html

Here's some additional info on the Proton facilities: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/baikonur_proton.html

I'm not sure what the inter-launch cleanup and inspection period is but if you follow the history, the launches of a particular platform don't seem to come closer than three weeks.

[morgantown]

For all DTV's shortcomings, they still offer an attractive package. Today that is. Obviously no one would spend the cash on those sats and not do something to have a positive effect on the bottom line. It just takes time...and a whole lot 'o money.

That said: how much did they spend on the R15 ;)? HD has to be far more difficult to screw up than a "simple" DVR. If the providers offer it, I sincerely doubt DTV will hesitate to deliver once the capacity is ready. Heck, its just rebroadcasting of national feeds CONUS -- that is easier than locals.

Just my two cents.

[jwren]

Well I was told there would be 150 new non-local channels (meaning only channels like hdtv, speed, etc...not networks in other states..) I was told this would be added this year and that they would start this process in spring 07. Well that is about to be yesterday and the satalights aren't even launched yet? ho humm,, just as I thought another empty promise from our friends at DTV...They need to start doing as they say and not as they do...

BTW: it wouldn't surprise me if when they do add a few more hd channels they try to charge me more money..that's just the way they are.. tell you you are paying so much now cause someday they will do this and that... and add this and that.. then it happens and they say but now we have to charge you x amount of dollars because look at what you get now... the prices just keep going up up up...

[Happy Camper]

jwren: What you were told is an incredible fiction. Even if that many channels were added, they would be sports subscriptions, spot beamed locals, corporate channels, etc., but not national substantive content channels you would value on a day-to-day basis.

The best way to make your decision is to get a current list of EXACTLY what's available NOW in your area. If that's good enough for you, sign up and keep D*, but do not rely on false promises, hysterical rumors or just plain BS from salespeople. If there are new channels, we'll all value them, but D* usually overloads their asses with their mouths about a year ina dvance of the substance they are trumpeting.

This Forum is an excellent place to go for correct information from people who care about satellite TV, and the members are not trying to sell you something. I have never had a question about anything DirecTV related that reading this Forum did not answer, so I joined up.

[David Carmichael]

Give me the "Food Network" and the "SciFi" channels in HD and I will be very happy for some time... Then if they wish they can add "STARZ Channels"

But if I want a moive I will still grab a DVD while not in 1080... I can start the movie on my time...

[lumstruck]

I was under the impression that many of the "regular" channels like Weather and CNN were merely going to be electronically reprocessed or "upconverted" and not true HD. There really needs to be a standard logo or imprint that identifies "native" or programming that was actually filmed in HD to separate it from the rest of the crap.

[coldsteel]

I was under the impression that many of the "regular" channels like Weather and CNN were merely going to be electronically reprocessed or "upconverted" and not true HD.

Thought I read on this forum that CNN took delivery of actual HD cameras...

[harsh]

Thought I read on this forum that CNN took delivery of actual HD cameras...Having hardware and putting it to good use are two different things. I followed a local CBS station's path to broadcasting the local news in HD and to hear their version of the story, you would think they had cloned Edward R. Murrow from DNA found on a cigarette butt.

[RAD]

Having hardware and putting it to good use are two different things. I followed a local CBS station's path to broadcasting the local news in HD and to hear their version of the story, you would think they had cloned Edward R. Murrow from DNA found on a cigarette butt.

Harsh, why oh why do you keep being so negative when others say it will happen?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/cnnfield042407.htm

And on CNN's own web site:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/RBI-0003-16161882.htm

[Newshawk]

Having hardware and putting it to good use are two different things. I followed a local CBS station's path to broadcasting the local news in HD and to hear their version of the story, you would think they had cloned Edward R. Murrow from DNA found on a cigarette butt.

I would have to say that CNN has never put any of its hardware to good use... but that's just me.

I don't get your point, however. Are you complaining that CNN isn't in HD at this very moment, or that stations are over-hyping their switch to HD, or are you still sore that Portland only has two of its stations in HD?

[harsh]

Are you complaining that CNN isn't in HD at this very moment, or that stations are over-hyping their switch to HD, or are you still sore that Portland only has two of its stations in HD?I'm lamenting that the broadcasters seem to treat the transition to HD like it is something more than bumping up the size of the storage system and upgrading some equipment. Its not like changing the aspect ratio invalidates everyone's training and experience. If it makes them feel better, they can put gaffer's tape over the left and right edges of the viewfinder.The CNN official compared CNN's switch to high-def to "changing engines on a 747 while you're flying."

[harsh]

Harsh, why oh why do you keep being so negative when others say it will happen?I'm not saying that it won't happen. I'm saying that I think it isn't a matter of DirecTV launching a satellite and saying "go".

The CNN report noted above indicated that the complete replacement of their Betacam SX gear would take two years.

[Newshawk]

I'm lamenting that the broadcasters seem to treat the transition to HD like it is something more than bumping up the size of the storage system and upgrading some equipment. Its not like changing the aspect ratio invalidates everyone's training and experience. If it makes them feel better, they can put gaffer's tape over the left and right edges of the viewfinder.

Oh, but it is, Harsh, it is. I would have to say you've never worked in a TV station or at a cable operation. Not only have I done so, but I preseided over the switchover from analog videotape to digital tape. In our operation, it was a three year phase in where we ran for at least two years as a hybrid of 3/4"/Hi8/DVCPro before we could achieve the switchout... and this was a flyspeck compared to CNN's worldwide operations!

HD, with its increased bandwidth, resolution and differing delivery formats, IS something more than "bumping up the size of the storage system and upgrading some equipment" you think it is. Every piece of video processing equipment, from distribution amps to routing switchers to monitors to cameras to editors... I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.

Oh, and don't forget that if you're doing news, you have to convert your news set from one designed for a 4:3 ratio screen to one designed for a 16:9 screen. Oh, and you have to do all this while you are producing multiple mewscasts every day!

The slickest changeover I have heard of lately was at KYW-TV, the CBS O&O station in Philadelphia. They avoided the "changing engines on a 747 in flight" pitfalls by building a new headquartes with all new, designed from the ground up HD studios. The day they moved, they did the 6 PM news at the old studios in SD and did the 11 PM news from the new studio in HD.

Unfortunately, most TV stations don't have the luxury of "throwing away" their very expensive, purpose built station building just to move into a HD ready facility-thus the need to change on the fly.

[harsh]

I would have to say you've never worked in a TV station or at a cable operation.You would be incorrect.In our operation, it was a three year phase in where we ran for at least two years as a hybrid of 3/4"/Hi8/DVCPro before we could achieve the switchout... and this was a flyspeck compared to CNN's worldwide operations!While the transition from analog (be it U-matic, S-VHS, Betacam) is a paradigm shift, the transition from one digital format to another shouldn't have to be so painful. The CNN story suggests that because of the tools that they use, the editing tasks shouldn't be a difficult a transition.Every piece of video processing equipment, from distribution amps to routing switchers to monitors to cameras to editors... I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.DAs aren't necessary in a digital environment; that task is accomplished with Ethernet switches. The only thing that has to change with the cameras is the new, much larger flash cards. The cameras still have the same zoom, focus and iris controls; probably even the same lenses and microphones.

The science of editing and switching hasn't changed all that much from the end-user perspective unless you're still shooting tape. I've been doing non-linear for years and while the software has changed, the underlying principles of video editing haven't.

I'm not insisting that the change is a simple matter of driving in a new van and going to work, but for ENG purposes, it isn't a whole lot more if you have people that are willing to move forward. It is made even easier once the crews see the benefit of being able to edit a package on a modest notebook computer in the same room where the news is being made.

The demand for HD content is there and they need to get to work fulfilling that demand. This isn't the leap from vidicon tube to CCD. This is a change in aspect ratio. DirecTV will need a lot more HD content to accomplish their goals and they shouldn't have to fight with entrenched engineers to get it.

[Tom Robertson]

You would be incorrect.While the transition from analog (be it U-matic, S-VHS, Betacam) is a paradigm shift, the transition from one digital format to another shouldn't have to be so painful. The CNN story suggests that because of the tools that they use, the editing tasks shouldn't be a difficult a transition.DAs aren't necessary in a digital environment; that task is accomplished with Ethernet switches. The only thing that has to change with the cameras is the new, much larger flash cards. The cameras still have the same zoom, focus and iris controls; probably even the same lenses and microphones.

The science of editing and switching hasn't changed all that much from the end-user perspective unless you're still shooting tape. I've been doing non-linear for years and while the software has changed, the underlying principles of video editing haven't.

I'm not insisting that the change is a simple matter of driving in a new van and going to work, but for ENG purposes, it isn't a whole lot more if you have people that are willing to move forward. It is made even easier once the crews see the benefit of being able to edit a package on a modest notebook computer in the same room where the news is being made.

The demand for HD content is there and they need to get to work fulfilling that demand. This isn't the leap from vidicon tube to CCD. This is a change in aspect ratio. DirecTV will need a lot more HD content to accomplish their goals and they shouldn't have to fight with entrenched engineers to get it.

Think about going from standalone DOS to networked windows. DOS was very, very mature, solid, well known. Networked windows was completely different in many dimensions.

Replacing every bit of very well known, solid, mature technology with unknown immature technology is not easy. There are little things that NOBODY ever expects to be a problem. Read the station engineers' posts on avsforums local threads. You'll see horror story after horror story about "Dolby encoder died", "Audio sync failed", "complete plant rewiring", etc. Interoperability testing in the field leads to very cool troubleshooting issues--but cool ain't the term for what the producers/owners/viewers are during the real-time problems.

Its very much like the late 50's and 60's all over again...

Cheers,
Tom

[Happy Camper]

First: Harsh makes me laugh, but I am old enough to have actually watched Edward R. Murrow.

Second: A good friend of mine comes from a family which owns controlling interest in a company which operates several network affiliate television stations. His take on this is "It's not particularly 'easy' to make the switch, but it's not rocket science, either. Mostly, it just takes a decision to do it, the commitment of capital for improvements and upgrades and time. Not all components you really want for the switch are always immediately available. We are making the investment in the inevitable, and our ratings have bumped slightly on local HD programs where we have made the switch. Mostly, stations don't want to spend the money and their staff complain about change. Couple this with the arrogance of broadcasters thinking they can get the digital deadline pushed back forever, and you don't have a lot of incentive for station owners to change."

[harsh]

Think about going from standalone DOS to networked windows. DOS was very, very mature, solid, well known. Networked windows was completely different in many dimensions.It is my contention that going to HD is like transitioning from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 as opposed to the transition from the command line to Windows.Replacing every bit of very well known, solid, mature technology with unknown immature technology is not easy.Many of these stations have been digital since inception. I'm not prepared to buy this argumentRead the station engineers' posts on avsforums local threads. You'll see horror story after horror story about "Dolby encoder died", "Audio sync failed", "complete plant rewiring", etc.Again, it comes down to the engineers. These kinds of problems existed at one level or another since the beginning of video. Back then, it was failing vacuum/vidicon tubes and a bad relay or reed switch or some downstream key character generator opening a subspace channel to Vger.

[Badtz]

I'm lamenting that the broadcasters seem to treat the transition to HD like it is something more than bumping up the size of the storage system and upgrading some equipment.

It's true that switching to HD is, at the most basic level, just upgrading equipment. You don't edit differently, you don't switch differently, you don't shoot differently. All of that is true. But you're making it sound like switching to an HD newscast means just loading new codecs and software into your current digital equipment, and adding some more digital storage. It's not that easy. You can't just take your 601 digital router and do an HD upgrade. You need all new gear, and you have to either integrate your current infrastructure into it all, or blow it all out completely.

I work for a local news affiliate. As it stands now, we have 3 router systems for audio and video.. analog, digital, and HD. Our HD router will need to be drastically expanded. We'll need a new audio and video production switcher for our control room. Our studio cams, our master control switcher, our monitors, our editing systems, our microwave intake systems, our field gear, everything. It will all require new gear and new infrastructure. Contrary to what you say, DAs are very much needed in a digital video environment.

Yes, at the most basic level, all you're doing is upgrading your equipment. But the reality is that it requires a lot of planning and hard work. And like others here have said, while you're doing all of this, you still have to do your regular newscasts. It's not an excuse we make because we don't want to spend the money.

I'm looking forward to the day we go to HD newscasts.. it's going to be fun, but it's also going to be a hell of a lot of work. And we're just one affiliate.. I can't imagine what it would be like to transition an operation like CNN.

[wilbur_the_goose]

Newshawk is correct about KYW-DT in Philly (a CBS O&O). They did a fantastic job at transition and their raitings have gone way up (they're a traditional #3 in the market).

WCAU-DT (NBC) is now the only local not doing news in HD. Their ratings are decreasing.

Only bad part about KYW is that Larry Mendite's makeup makes him look like somebody from La Cage aux Folles.

[Tom Robertson]

It is my contention that going to HD is like transitioning from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 as opposed to the transition from the command line to Windows.You are welcome to your analogy. I think you are quite wrong, but you can chose as you wish.Many of these stations have been digital since inception. I'm not prepared to buy this argumentYou know you can't make such a broad sweeping statement such as that without presenting your homework. In most of the areas I've lived few stations have been broadcasting less than 40 years. Again, it comes down to the engineers. These kinds of problems existed at one level or another since the beginning of video. Back then, it was failing vacuum/vidicon tubes and a bad relay or reed switch or some downstream key character generator opening a subspace channel to Vger.

Harsh, your moniker should warn us, but your postings do it justice. I'm glad they define you and not me. You blithely toss aside decades of hard work these engineers had to go through to get to the stage of being able to diagnose "failing vacuum/vidicon tubes, relays, or switches" and equate that to expertise in diagnosing generation #1 HD digital equipment just like that. Equipment that "should" interoperate, but often only just barely does...Not to the level these professionals want to see in their broadcasts these days.

I don't know your background. Contrarian isn't an occupation, so I'm not sure what you have done. But for one who negates the abilities of high tech industries, I'm quite surprised you are now saying "Plug and Pray" is a myth. That things work very well the first time out of the gate.

Let me tell you, they do not always. And these are whole new skills the manufacturers, network and electrical engineers, and the station engineers are learning. Sure they can take some knowledge of previous digital experience with them, but that only helps so far when the new dolby encoder crashes once every two weeks--and Dolby's engineers don't know why.

Regards,
Tom

[morgantown]

Despite the legitimate difficulties on the local level (and yes, those are sometimes multiple times harder for a inter/national provider such as CNN) many times the switch is not as extreme when it is a national provider such as HGTV, Food Network or even National Geographic (gasp) as compared to a local affiliate.

National Geographic made the decision to jump 100% to HD, change the studio and make it requisite that programming is only HD for anyone who wants a spot (even though hardly anyone could deliver it that way to the consumer). NG started this years ago IIRC -- as difficult as that may seem.

I do think it is harder for both sides (DTV and affiliates) on the local level. However, for a national feed (again Food Network, HGTV, etc.) that has no real presence other than a possible main studio -- more likely just a edit compiling facility and bank of traveling crews with the requisite gear) the transition is far less a task. Think about the Cartoon Network -- and the majority of channels DTV is really adding on the national feeds.

Of course it seems easier to us channel flippers than those whose profession it is to deliver the content we enjoy. However, the national feeds are (at least in many individual instances) less problematic than the task of switching over the hundreds of local affiliates DTV has already done.

As long as DTV has the (national) HD programming to provide -- the task of getting it to us is far less difficult than doing the locals. Would it be nice if all the *cable* channels had a HD feed -- sure. Give them time...as long as those two sats make into orbit the most difficult time in the HD transition should be over for DTV. "All" they need to do is get a clean feed and retransmit it.

[harsh]

You are welcome to your analogy. I think you are quite wrong, but you can chose as you wish.You know you can't make such a broad sweeping statement such as that without presenting your homework. In most of the areas I've lived few stations have been broadcasting less than 40 years.I was referring to CNN, SciFi, USA, TBS and other national channels that DirecTV claims to have contracts with as opposed to local broadcast stations. A bad choice of words on my part.You blithely toss aside decades of hard work these engineers had to go through to get to the stage of being able to diagnose "failing vacuum/vidicon tubes, relays, or switches" and equate that to expertise in diagnosing generation #1 HD digital equipment just like that. Equipment that "should" interoperate, but often only just barely does...Not to the level these professionals want to see in their broadcasts these days.My main vocation is in computers and I can assure you that in computers, they've made some spectacular paradigm shifts that have left most of the old guard data center people in the dust. Seen any new DEC Vax installs lately? What happened to Data General, Honeywell and Control Data Corporation? Through it all, the users have stayed the same.But for one who negates the abilities of high tech industries, I'm quite surprised you are now saying "Plug and Pray" is a myth.I'm not negating anything other than the seemingly outrageous claims of the marketroids. I have every confidence that the hardware and software people are working as fast as they are able with the tools and targets that they can pin down.And these are whole new skills the manufacturers, network and electrical engineers, and the station engineers are learning. Sure they can take some knowledge of previous digital experience with them, but that only helps so far when the new dolby encoder crashes once every two weeks--and Dolby's engineers don't know why.Knowing that there will be bugaboos is not a good enough reason to fight the transition. It will happen and dragging it out isn't going to make it easier. It doesn't appear that HDTV will soon be replaced, so any progress that is made should be to the good.

[Tom Robertson]

...I have every confidence that the hardware and software people are working as fast as they are able with the tools and targets that they can pin down.
...
Knowing that there will be bugaboos is not a good enough reason to fight the transition. It will happen and dragging it out isn't going to make it easier. It doesn't appear that HDTV will soon be replaced, so any progress that is made should be to the good.

Harsh, I am always glad when you and I end up on the same page. These two statements I heartily endorse and agree with. (And am glad for the clarifications on the others, btw.)

Yes, there are people who still think February 17, 2009 will not happen. And while I agree that timing is everything, the time stop stalling has long passed. :) (Yeah, I'm still going back to the locals with the 2-17-2009, but the nationals will be affected by that date too insofar as people will see the difference and gravitate away from SD to HD, IMHO.)

Cheers,
Tom

[wjHunter]

As long as I can get BSG in HD next season I for one will be a very happy camper... :)

[Terry K]

To convert completely to HD, look at Today and the fact they spent 3 months converting the studio which was a ground up rebuild.

The big 4 in NYC have gone to HD as well for local news and there IS a cost involved as well as unproven technology. Just because it works great in a fixed studio doesn't mean it will work in the real world.

[harsh]

To convert completely to HD, look at Today and the fact they spent 3 months converting the studio which was a ground up rebuild.You have to wonder how much of that was installation of HD cameras and how much was the support equipment like robotic camera controllers and prompter equipment. It's not like they have to worry about plugging in viewfinders and intercom equipment like they did in the good old days.

I do public meeting coverage using robotic cameras and our biggest problem has always been the robotic controls and a Pee Cee based character generator that can't seem to hold phase.

[Drew2k]

Has anyone seen this article from January 2007? "NBC builds its network HD facilities for Today and tomorrow"

http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/broadcasting_nbc_builds_network/


(I read somewhere else that NBC made use of the Today control room when NBC Nightly News went HD.)