Intermittent Missing MPEG4 Channels; Reset Everything Question

[shendley]

This picks up an issue I originally posted a question about in the Cutting Edge forum. But I've now ruled out cutting edge software as a cause of the problem, so I thought I'd bring it to the general HR 20 forum:

Some of my MPEG 2 HD channels go missing intermittently. Once, they all were all gone, but most of the time it's only one or two. Sometimes I just get a blank screen. At other times, one of the few channels missing will display the searching for signal error message. I thought that the only fix was a restart, but I've recently found a rather bizarre way of moving the problem around. Last night, HDNET went blank so I checked DSHD and it was blank too. Then I went back to HDNET and it was back. Then I went back to DSHD to see if it was still blank. It was. Then I checked out UHD and it was blank. Went back to DSHD and, guess what? It was back. Eventually I was able to 'roll' the problem from HDNET 79 to 72 (one of the HD ESPN channels). And this morning they were all back again.

In the cutting edge thread I started about this (and another problem I had rolling back from CE to NR software), it was suggested that a reset everything might be the next thing to try to fix this. Does this sound like the right way to go? And, if so, what should I expect from a reset everything? My understanding is that you lose all recordings, series links, all your settings. Is that right? What about software? Does it revert back to the original software the machine came with? And what about time - how long does it take a reset everything to do its thing? I'm a bit reticent to take such a drastic step, but this problem is getting really annoying. Your suggestions and help are much appreciated!

[hilmar2k]

This picks up an issue I originally posted a question about in the Cutting Edge forum. But I've now ruled out cutting edge software as a cause of the problem, so I thought I'd bring it to the general HR 20 forum:

Some of my MPEG 4 HD channels go missing intermittently. Once, they all were all gone, but most of the time it's only one or two. Sometimes I just get a blank screen. At other times, one of the few channels missing will display the searching for signal error message. I thought that the only fix was a restart, but I've recently found a rather bizarre way of moving the problem around. Last night, HDNET went blank so I checked DSHD and it was blank too. Then I went back to HDNET and it was back. Then I went back to DSHD to see if it was still blank. It was. Then I checked out UHD and it was blank. Went back to DSHD and, guess what? It was back. Eventually I was able to 'roll' the problem from HDNET 79 to 72 (one of the HD ESPN channels). And this morning they were all back again.

In the cutting edge thread I started about this (and another problem I had rolling back from CE to NR software), it was suggested that a reset everything might be the next thing to try to fix this. Does this sound like the right way to go? And, if so, what should I expect from a reset everything? My understanding is that you lose all recordings, series links, all your settings. Is that right? What about software? Does it revert back to the original software the machine came with? And what about time - how long does it take a reset everything to do its thing? I'm a bit reticent to take such a drastic step, but this problem is getting really annoying. Your suggestions and help are much appreciated!

Reset Everything reverts back to factory settings with the exception of the software version. You will lose all recordings and settings. Reset Everything doesn't take that much longer than a RBR, just a few minutes. You will have to go through the initial setup again, however.

[Smuuth]

This picks up an issue I originally posted a question about in the Cutting Edge forum. But I've now ruled out cutting edge software as a cause of the problem, so I thought I'd bring it to the general HR 20 forum:

Some of my MPEG 4 HD channels go missing intermittently. Once, they all were all gone, but most of the time it's only one or two. Sometimes I just get a blank screen. At other times, one of the few channels missing will display the searching for signal error message. I thought that the only fix was a restart, but I've recently found a rather bizarre way of moving the problem around. Last night, HDNET went blank so I checked DSHD and it was blank too. Then I went back to HDNET and it was back. Then I went back to DSHD to see if it was still blank. It was. Then I checked out UHD and it was blank. Went back to DSHD and, guess what? It was back. Eventually I was able to 'roll' the problem from HDNET 79 to 72 (one of the HD ESPN channels). And this morning they were all back again.

In the cutting edge thread I started about this (and another problem I had rolling back from CE to NR software), it was suggested that a reset everything might be the next thing to try to fix this. Does this sound like the right way to go? And, if so, what should I expect from a reset everything? My understanding is that you lose all recordings, series links, all your settings. Is that right? What about software? Does it revert back to the original software the machine came with? And what about time - how long does it take a reset everything to do its thing? I'm a bit reticent to take such a drastic step, but this problem is getting really annoying. Your suggestions and help are much appreciated!You say MPEG4 channels but then you talk about switching between HDNET, DSHD, UHD, and HD ESPN. All of which are MPEG2 HD channels, so what do they have to do with MPEG4? :confused:

[veryoldschool]

I'm going to jump in here and wonder if you have a problem with a tuner.
If you have "bad" channels jumping around, I'd look into the tuners. Every time you change channels [without recording] the tuners swap.
When you have a "bad" channel & then a "good" one, go to another channel [a third] then come back to the first "bad" channel. If it now isn't bad & when you change to your second channel [that had been good] and it is now a bad channel, this would point to a defective tuner.
So you need to:
1) find a bad one
2) change to a good one.
3) change to a third channel [which might be bad]
4) go back to the first and see if it is now good.
5) go to channel from #2 and see if it is now bad.

Next would be to change coax cables to see if the coax is causing this.
A reset everything most likely won't fix this, but you would need to do this to get D* to send you a replacement.

[shendley]

You say MPEG4 channels but then you talk about switching between HDNET, DSHD, UHD, and HD ESPN. All of which are MPEG2 HD channels, so what do they have to do with MPEG4? :confused:

My bad. I'm always getting that mixed up. I edited my original post for clarification, but couldn't edit the title, so the mistake is still there.

[shendley]

I'm going to jump in here and wonder if you have a problem with a tuner.
If you have "bad" channels jumping around, I'd look into the tuners. Every time you change channels [without recording] the tuners swap.
When you have a "bad" channel & then a "good" one, go to another channel [a third] then come back to the first "bad" channel. If it now isn't bad & when you change to your second channel [that had been good] and it is now a bad channel, this would point to a defective tuner.
So you need to:
1) find a bad one
2) change to a good one.
3) change to a third channel [which might be bad]
4) go back to the first and see if it is now good.
5) go to channel from #2 and see if it is now bad.

Next would be to change coax cables to see if the coax is causing this.
A reset everything most likely won't fix this, but you would need to do this to get D* to send you a replacement.

Thanks. I'll try that the next time the problem pops up. But if it is a bad tuner (and not just a problem with the coax), then that's a hardware issue that a reset everything couldn't fix, right? Am I right in thinking that my only option at that point would be to get a new HR 20?

[veryoldschool]

Thanks. I'll try that the next time the problem pops up. But if it is a bad tuner (and not just a problem with the coax), then that's a hardware issue that a reset everything couldn't fix, right? Am I right in thinking that my only option at that point would be to get a new HR 20?
There are a couple of ways to go here:
!) Try replacing the receiver and if it doesn't help then go bad to what you have [saving all of your settings & recording]. this may not be the nicest to D* [but that's not high on my list].
2) try the reset everything to see if it will clear up your problem [it might, or could].
3) after these two, go check your coax cables.

Or do this in the reverse order. I'm a "RF guy", so I'd go from the cables back [or up], then the reset & finally the replacement.

I've worked with people who do it the other way. Fixing it is all that counts and nobody knows [until it's fixed] which is the "bad part".

So your "only option", I would say is your "final option" and yes, that may be exactly what you will need to do.

[shendley]

There are a couple of ways to go here:
!) Try replacing the receiver and if it doesn't help then go bad to what you have [saving all of your settings & recording]. this may not be the nicest to D* [but that's not high on my list].
2) try the reset everything to see if it will clear up your problem [it might, or could].
3) after these two, go check your coax cables.

Or do this in the reverse order. I'm a "RF guy", so I'd go from the cables back [or up], then the reset & finally the replacement.

I've worked with people who do it the other way. Fixing it is all that counts and nobody knows [until it's fixed] which is the "bad part".

So your "only option", I would say is your "final option" and yes, that may be exactly what you will need to do.

I guess I'm an "RF guy" too as that would be my preferred order of actions to take. I keep waiting for an MPEG2 channel to go MIA to check out your test for the tuner problem. I'll get back when (if?) I get it again.

[shendley]

Back with more information. I just had an mpeg2 channel go blank (actually this time it gave me the error message that I had not purchased this channel). I followed VOS's advice to switch to another channel, thereby forcing the machine to switch to another tuner - result was a channel I could receive. I then switched to a new channel - result was I couldn't receive it (had a "searching for signal in satellite 2" message). That appeared consistent with the idea that it was a problem with a tuner so I went to check the coax cables and unplugged the sat 2 coax first. As soon as I had it out, the picture came back. I then plugged it back in and switched to another channel and it was there and then back to a missing channel and it was there. So, it appeared that unplugging the coax into sat 2 fixed the problem (for now anyway).

So my question is: why would simply unplugging one of my coax cables (and then plugging it back in) fix this problem? Is this indicative of something as simple as the sat 2 coax not being plugged in appropriately or, perhaps, some kind of short at the very end of the line (of course, the end of the line is the coax coming from the b band coverter)? Or could the mere act of unplugging one of the coaxes force something to happen in one of the tuners to overcome this problem? And, my old question: given this new information does it seem like it would be even remotely helpful to reset everything on this machine?

[texasbrit]

Back with more information. I just had an mpeg2 channel go blank (actually this time it gave me the error message that I had not purchased this channel). I followed VOS's advice to switch to another channel, thereby forcing the machine to switch to another tuner - result was a channel I could receive. I then switched to a new channel - result was I couldn't receive it (had a "searching for signal in satellite 2" message). That appeared consistent with the idea that it was a problem with a tuner so I went to check the coax cables and unplugged the sat 2 coax first. As soon as I had it out, the picture came back. I then plugged it back in and switched to another channel and it was there and then back to a missing channel and it was there. So, it appeared that unplugging the coax into sat 2 fixed the problem (for now anyway).

So my question is: why would simply unplugging one of my coax cables (and then plugging it back in) fix this problem? Is this indicative of something as simple as the sat 2 coax not being plugged in appropriately or, perhaps, some kind of short at the very end of the line (of course, the end of the line is the coax coming from the b band coverter)? Or could the mere act of unplugging one of the coaxes force something to happen in one of the tuners to overcome this problem? And, my old question: given this new information does it seem like it would be even remotely helpful to reset everything on this machine?


How long are your cable runs? This is the sort of problem you would get if the sat/transponder selection voltage is sometimes not getting through to the dish. The same symptoms as you get if you use a splitter instead of a multiswitch (I see you have the WB68). The WB68 being unpowered relies on the receivers to drive the voltage thru the multiswitch to the dish. If the voltage is marginal then plugging/unplugging cables can have all sorts of strange effects.

I suspect the problem might go away if you had a powered multiswitch (WB616) , or used a Sonora power locker on the four lines to the dish (this effectively turns the WB68 into a powered multiswitch).

[veryoldschool]

Back with more information. I just had an mpeg2 channel go blank (actually this time it gave me the error message that I had not purchased this channel). I followed VOS's advice to switch to another channel, thereby forcing the machine to switch to another tuner - result was a channel I could receive. I then switched to a new channel - result was I couldn't receive it (had a "searching for signal in satellite 2" message). That appeared consistent with the idea that it was a problem with a tuner so I went to check the coax cables and unplugged the sat 2 coax first. As soon as I had it out, the picture came back. I then plugged it back in and switched to another channel and it was there and then back to a missing channel and it was there. So, it appeared that unplugging the coax into sat 2 fixed the problem (for now anyway).

So my question is: why would simply unplugging one of my coax cables (and then plugging it back in) fix this problem? Is this indicative of something as simple as the sat 2 coax not being plugged in appropriately or, perhaps, some kind of short at the very end of the line (of course, the end of the line is the coax coming from the b band coverter)? Or could the mere act of unplugging one of the coaxes force something to happen in one of the tuners to overcome this problem? And, my old question: given this new information does it seem like it would be even remotely helpful to reset everything on this machine?
For now skip the reset everything.
What "you're telling me is"...it's the coax.
Where in it is a good question. Many times I have found "re-mating" a cable to have it work.
In the Air Force [it happens so often] they have a "corrective action" that's called re-seating connector.
What you "saw" was a bad match [impedance] that is somewhere in that line. Since RF "bounces" through the cable, if it bounces back [too much] you have no signal.
Sorry but I'm losing track of where I've posted what [Duh]. Have you used the alcohol, Q-tips, & 7/16 wrench to have a "connector cleaning party" yet? Somewhere in your coaxes you've got a problem [or had]. All of your connection should be clean & snug [with connectors that shouldn't spin].

[veryoldschool]

How long are your cable runs? This is the sort of problem you would get if the sat/transponder selection voltage is sometimes not getting through to the dish. The same symptoms as you get if you use a splitter instead of a multiswitch (I see you have the WB68). The WB68 being unpowered relies on the receivers to drive the voltage thru the multiswitch to the dish. If the voltage is marginal then plugging/unplugging cables can have all sorts of strange effects.

I suspect the problem might go away if you had a powered multiswitch (WB616) , or used a Sonora power locker on the four lines to the dish (this effectively turns the WB68 into a powered multiswitch).
Your right, it could be drive power for the LNBs or just a bad RF match.
I have 125' of coax with no problems.

[shendley]

The coax run from the dish to the HR 20 is about 50 feet. That doesn't strike me as long enough to create problems needing a powered multiswitch (though I'm just going on stuff I've read here and there on the message board). Also, this is a relatively new problem. I've had the machine for I guess about six months and I only began noticing this problem about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

As for looking into the coax, should I take an alcohol swipe and clean the connections? Aside from checking the connections to make sure they're tight, I've never done anything with cleaning coax before. I wonder, though, if it might make a difference if I take one of the B band coverters from my second HR20 and replace it with the one going into the sat 2 connection on this one. Here I'm thinking that it seemed like something was happening at the place where the coax from the b band converter went into the machine.

[texasbrit]

The coax run from the dish to the HR 20 is about 50 feet. That doesn't strike me as long enough to create problems needing a powered multiswitch (though I'm just going on stuff I've read here and there on the message board). Also, this is a relatively new problem. I've had the machine for I guess about six months and I only began noticing this problem about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

As for looking into the coax, should I take an alcohol swipe and clean the connections? Aside from checking the connections to make sure they're tight, I've never done anything with cleaning coax before. I wonder, though, if it might make a difference if I take one of the B band coverters from my second HR20 and replace it with the one going into the sat 2 connection on this one. Here I'm thinking that it seemed like something was happening at the place where the coax from the b band converter went into the machine.


I agree with you 50 feet isn't very long but I have read posts from installers who have had problems like this on short cable runs also (probably due to bad connections) and solved them by using a power locker. Some independent installers will not use a WB68 on ANY installation.

You don't have an old powered multiswitch by any chance? If so, just connect it to four of the outputs of the WB68, this also has the effect of powering the WB68. See if that helps.

You could just take all the b-band converters off and see if that has any effect. The bbcs don't do anything right now......

[veryoldschool]

The coax run from the dish to the HR 20 is about 50 feet. That doesn't strike me as long enough to create problems needing a powered multiswitch (though I'm just going on stuff I've read here and there on the message board). Also, this is a relatively new problem. I've had the machine for I guess about six months and I only began noticing this problem about 3 or 4 weeks ago.

As for looking into the coax, should I take an alcohol swipe and clean the connections? Aside from checking the connections to make sure they're tight, I've never done anything with cleaning coax before. I wonder, though, if it might make a difference if I take one of the B band coverters from my second HR20 and replace it with the one going into the sat 2 connection on this one. Here I'm thinking that it seemed like something was happening at the place where the coax from the b band converter went into the machine.
Q-tips work best as they will fit inside the F connectors wiping off anything there. Half of this is an inspection of all of the connectors/connections.
For the time being, remove all your BBCs as right now they aren't doing anything. They have been known to be bad before.
You length is fine, as mine are 125'.

[shendley]

Unfortunately I don't have an old powered multiswitch to test the lack of power hypothesis. I did have, but the installers took it when they installed the WB68. I think the suggestion to remove the b band converters is probably the next step to take. But I just tightened everything up on the closest coax connections to the machine (coax from outside to Monster surge protector to b-band converters to HR 20) and I'm curious to see if that might have fixed it. So I think I'll wait and see if it recurs before removing the converters just to make sure I rule out one thing at a time.

By the way: thanks for all your help with this problem. I'd really be lost if I were thinking about this by myself or (I strongly suspect) most DTV CSRs.

[veryoldschool]

Unfortunately I don't have an old powered multiswitch to test the lack of power hypothesis. I did have, but the installers took it when they installed the WB68. I think the suggestion to remove the b band converters is probably the next step to take. But I just tightened everything up on the closest coax connections to the machine (coax from outside to Monster surge protector to b-band converters to HR 20) and I'm curious to see if that might have fixed it. So I think I'll wait and see if it recurs before removing the converters just to make sure I rule out one thing at a time.

By the way: thanks for all your help with this problem. I'd really be lost if I were thinking about this by myself or (I strongly suspect) most DTV CSRs.
Now that I know this is in the chain, it would be one of the first things I'd take out of the "loop".

[veryoldschool]

Can anybody tell me what good this would do on a SAT feed coax? :confused:

[Steve Robertson]

I am also having problems like you are having and I think mine is at the dish level as I can't receive anything from the 101 bird but 110 seems to be ok so I am guessing bad LNB or maybe some new foliage getting in the way which I hope to take care of tonight. I was not having a problem till 2 nights ago when we got some rain and last night was downpours. The tech person had me switch my 2 cables around and do the rbr and now I have lost everything on that box while my other one still reveives my HD locals and ESPN HD but nothing on the 101 even my old SD tivo box is not getting the 101 signal but is still receiving the locals.

[texasbrit]

Can anybody tell me what good this would do on a SAT feed coax? :confused:

None. And it's another possible way in which the switching voltage may be affected. The OP should remove it and see what happens....

[Steve Robertson]

I removed mine but it did not to help

[Michael D'Angelo]

Now that I know this is in the chain, it would be one of the first things I'd take out of the "loop".

I agree. That is a very good chance that is what the problem is.

[veryoldschool]

I removed mine but it did not to help
So you've lost both even & odd transponders from 101, on all of your receivers?
This would need to be several "bad cables", which is unlikely. It is sounding like a "Dish issue", where either the SAT in blocked or the LNB failed.
Doing an RBR when there is no signal from 101 is why things got worse, as it needs to see 101 at startup.
If the tree trimming doesn't help, list all of your setup & we'll work it from there.

[Michael D'Angelo]

I am also having problems like you are having and I think mine is at the dish level as I can't receive anything from the 101 bird but 110 seems to be ok so I am guessing bad LNB or maybe some new foliage getting in the way which I hope to take care of tonight. I was not having a problem till 2 nights ago when we got some rain and last night was downpours. The tech person had me switch my 2 cables around and do the rbr and now I have lost everything on that box while my other one still reveives my HD locals and ESPN HD but nothing on the 101 even my old SD tivo box is not getting the 101 signal but is still receiving the locals.

Do you have a multi-switch?

[Steve Robertson]

So you've lost both even & odd transponders from 101, on all of your receivers?
This would need to be several "bad cables", which is unlikely. It is sounding like a "Dish issue", where either the SAT in blocked or the LNB failed.
Doing an RBR when there is no signal from 101 is why things got worse, as it needs to see 101 at startup.
If the tree trimming doesn't help, list all of your setup & we'll work it from there.


Yup everything is gone on the 1 box I did the RBR on while the other 2 still get local channels one is a HR 20 700 and the other a SD Tivo. I am still seeing ESPN HD on the HD box.

I am thinking like you that the LNB went bad or there is some foliage I need to remove and I am leaning towards foliage as there is 1 small branch that could be causing the problem and of course is way up on the tree. I am going to borrow and extended saw and climb up on my ladder and see if that makes a difference. I am kind of hoping it is an LNB issue though as there are some branches that are way out that might also be causing the problem which I can't do anything about.

Is the 101 LNB the big 1 on the left as you look at it from behind the dish?

I still have my old 101 setup can I combine the 2 dishes to make it work?

[veryoldschool]

Yup everything is gone on the 1 box I did the RBR on while the other 2 still get local channels one is a HR 20 700 and the other a SD Tivo. I am still seeing ESPN HD on the HD box.

I am thinking like you that the LNB went bad or there is some foliage I need to remove and I am leaning towards foliage as there is 1 small branch that could be causing the problem and of course is way up on the tree. I am going to borrow and extended saw and climb up on my ladder and see if that makes a difference. I am kind of hoping it is an LNB issue though as there are some branches that are way out that might also be causing the problem which I can't do anything about.

Is the 101 LNB the big 1 on the left as you look at it from behind the dish?

I still have my old 101 setup can I combine the 2 dishes to make it work?
The 101 LNB on the 5 LNB dish is the center LNB [on center line].
If you can connect to your other dish it could give you some idea of if it is the LNB or blocked line of sight.
BE VERY CAREFUL of using a pole saw on a ladder. Been there, done that...
When I had tree problems, I had low signals, so as you "trim" even before you're done you should see some improvement.

Combining Dish feeds is "still a work in progress" and has yet to be proved to work. FWIW

[Steve Robertson]

The 101 LNB on the 5 LNB dish is the center LNB [on center line].
If you can connect to your other dish it could give you some idea of if it is the LNB or blocked line of sight.
BE VERY CAREFUL of using a pole saw on a ladder. Been there, done that...
When I had tree problems, I had low signals, so as you "trim" even before you're done you should see some improvement.

Combining Dish feeds is "still a work in progress" and has yet to be proved to work. FWIW

I tried connecting the old dish but got nothing and to be honest not even sure I had the right cables hooked up as I have so many running through my cellar from all the different installs I use to have to use 3 dishes. Can the old 101 be combined with the new dish?

I hear you on the saw and thank god the branches are real small so it should be fairly easy at least looking at it should be

[veryoldschool]

I tried connecting the old dish but got nothing and to be honest not even sure I had the right cables hooked up as I have so many running through my cellar from all the different installs I use to have to use 3 dishes. Can the old 101 be combined with the new dish?

I hear you on the saw and thank god the branches are real small so it should be fairly easy at least looking at it should be
"In theory" you can combine dish feeds, but it has yet to be proved.

[Steve Robertson]

"In theory" you can combine dish feeds, but it has yet to be proved.

Like I said I use to have 3 dishes combined but was not sure about the new dish not sure if it really matters because I think I should get 101 without a problem more so than the 110 and 119 at the dish location.

Thanks for your help I will report back with my findings

[veryoldschool]

Like I said I use to have 3 dishes combined but was not sure about the new dish not sure if it really matters because I think I should get 101 without a problem more so than the 110 and 119 at the dish location.

Thanks for your help I will report back with my findings
With "the new dish" combining is a bit harder as there are the Ka Hi & lo frequencies that use the same control signals as Ku making everything much more complicated.

[Steve Robertson]

With "the new dish" combining is a bit harder as there are the Ka Hi & lo frequencies that use the same control signals as Ku making everything much more complicated.


That is what I figured and hope I don't have to go this route. I don't know why I keep putting up with this stuff I have been with D* 11 years and every once in a while I say screw it and think of getting another carrier. FIOS is coming and still maybe an option but that is going to be a while it looks like.

[Steve Robertson]

I went home at lunch did the RBR and everything is back up and running so I think it is a leave issue that I need to take care of. We had lots of rain yesterday and I think the weight of the water on the leaves created the problem. I am still not getting great signal strength on the 101 mostly in the 50's with the 4,12,20,28 in the 90's. Still don't get channel 94 or 95 what birds are they on?

[shendley]

None. And it's another possible way in which the switching voltage may be affected. The OP should remove it and see what happens....

What I've got is this Monster Home Theater Power Center with Clean Power. Allegedly it clears up any electrical interference that might be causing problems with your picture. I got it a couple of years ago when I got my first plasma. I began seeing (on SD broadcasts; that's all I had back then) a thin, almost imperceptible, line crawling up the screen that would begin again at the bottom as soon as it had cleared the top. When I plugged the coax into the Monster, I stopped seeing it. I also thought electrical surges could travel through a coax cable and, therefore, ideally should go through a surge protector as well.

So that's why I've got it. But given what everyone is saying here, that'll certainly be one of the variables I look into next. Still waiting for the problem to happen again. It's a curiously intermittent creature that only pops up once in a while.

[veryoldschool]

What I've got is this Monster Home Theater Power Center with Clean Power. Allegedly it clears up any electrical interference that might be causing problems with your picture. I got it a couple of years ago when I got my first plasma. I began seeing (on SD broadcasts; that's all I had back then) a thin, almost imperceptible, line crawling up the screen that would begin again at the bottom as soon as it had cleared the top. When I plugged the coax into the Monster, I stopped seeing it. I also thought electrical surges could travel through a coax cable and, therefore, ideally should go through a surge protector as well.

So that's why I've got it. But given what everyone is saying here, that'll certainly be one of the variables I look into next. Still waiting for the problem to happen again. It's a curiously intermittent creature that only pops up once in a while.
What I'm reading is: the monster is good for AC power conditioning AND cable company feeds. CATV is below 1 GHz, but SAT feeds go up just over 2 GHz.
Since the source of power comes from the receiver for the LNBs there is no reason for it on a SAT feed.
What you used to see was a ground problem [common on CATV] with 60 cycles on your video connection to your display. If you use HDMI [digital] even with a ground issue, you won't see it on the digital [but do on an analog] connection.
It just makes good sense to me to not run your SAT feeds through that box, as it can't do you any good & can degrade your signal.

[shendley]

What I'm reading is: the monster is good for AC power conditioning AND cable company feeds. CATV is below 1 GHz, but SAT feeds go up just over 2 GHz.
Since the source of power comes from the receiver for the LNBs there is no reason for it on a SAT feed.
What you used to see was a ground problem [common on CATV] with 60 cycles on your video connection to your display. If you use HDMI [digital] even with a ground issue, you won't see it on the digital [but do on an analog] connection.
It just makes good sense to me to not run your SAT feeds through that box, as it can't do you any good & can degrade your signal.

What you say makes sense. I'll take the Monster out of the loop tonight!

[Steve Robertson]

Well I fixed my problem last night and took down two branches and now all my readings are in the high 80's to 100. The exception being on the 99 and 103 where transponder 3 is really low in the teens.

[veryoldschool]

Well I fixed my problem last night and took down two branches and now all my readings are in the high 80's to 100. The exception being on the 99 and 103 where transponder 3 is really low in the teens.
How are your local HD channels coming in?
If they're fine, then those transponders aren't for your area & they don't point to you directly. All of the 99 & 103 SATs are spot beams right now.

[Steve Robertson]

How are your local HD channels coming in?
If they're fine, then those transponders aren't for your area & they don't point to you directly. All of the 99 & 103 SATs are spot beams right now.


Locals are rock solid I kind of figured that on the spot beams but was not 100% sure. Thanks for all your help. It was an adventure getting the branches down I am just glad they weren't to thick only about 2 inch diameter about 30 ft up.

[shendley]

I thought this problem was solved, but now I think it's not and it's behaving even more strangely. First of all, a brief recap: I occasionally lose the signal on sat 2 for my mpeg 2 channels (the 70s). By switching from one mpeg 2 channel to another it becomes clear that the sat 2 input is the problem. I removed the Monster surge protector from my lines and now the lines used by DTV to bring the signal into my house run uninterupted to the BBand Converters into my machine. I checked the BBCs earlier by switching them out, thinking that if one of them were bad, the problem would switch to searching for signal in sat 1 (rather than 2). But it didn't switch. It remained only a problem for sat 2.

When I took the Monster out of the loop, I thought I'd solved the problem as I didn't see it for a couple of weeks until today. Let explain just what I did in case any of this could be relevant. I went to ch. 499 to see if I got a searching for signal message indicating (acc. to another thread) that my bband converters were properly installed. I did get that searching message but since it was for sat 2 rather than 1, I got curious as to whether this was my old problem resurfacing. When I went to my mpeg2 channels, I found my problem had resurfaced. I also checked my SD stations and saw that I could go from channel to channel to my hearts content and never get the searching for signal in sat 2 message. The problem was also missing from my mpeg 4 locals. But, curiously, after I checked the mpeg 4 locals and went back to the mpeg 2 channels, the problem was solved (it was not solved when I went back from checking the SD stations to mpeg 2 stations). I checked 499 again and saw that this time it produced the searcing for signal in sat 1 message.

So any new insights as to what might be happening here? I was thinking that maybe I ought to change out the bband converters from my new HR20 to my old one (the one with the problem) and see if that makes any difference. If it did I could ask DTV to send me a couple of new bband converters. This is such an intermittent problem that it's hard to play with and figure out. But it has cost me a couple of mpeg 2 recordings in the past. And since I record a lot of mpeg 2 stations I'd really like to get this fixed.

Thanks for your patience with reading all of this rambling info. I'd love to hear if anyone has any further insight into this.

[veryoldschool]

I would start by removing the BBCs & just take them out of the loop for now.
Do you have a multi-switch [outside of the one in the dish]?
Check that all of your cables are snug [not really tight, but completely "snug" to their mating connector].
This is just going through the basics. Then we can start to troubleshoot the problem.

[shendley]

I would start by removing the BBCs & just take them out of the loop for now.
Do you have a multi-switch [outside of the one in the dish]?
Check that all of your cables are snug [not really tight, but completely "snug" to their mating connector].
This is just going through the basics. Then we can start to troubleshoot the problem.

VOS: Thanks for chiming in. Your comments were very helpful in my earlier attempts to figure this darn thing out. As for your suggestions here: I have a Zinwell 6x8 outside just before the line comes into the house. I'm pretty sure my connections are all snug as I've played around with them twice (once switching the bband converters from sat 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 and the other time removing the Monster from the line) and made sure both times the connections were in there snugly. I would guess I should take up your suggestion of removing the bband converters and seeing what happens. I didn't want to do that as the converters will be needed in the next few months with the new HD channels coming on line. But if I removed them and the problem went away, then that could be a good basis to suggest to DTV that they send out some new ones for me (but, with that in mind, wouldn't it be just as effective to simply replace the old bbands with the new ones on my new machine that isn't having this problem - as far as I know?).

[veryoldschool]

VOS: Thanks for chiming in. Your comments were very helpful in my earlier attempts to figure this darn thing out. As for your suggestions here: I have a Zinwell 6x8 outside just before the line comes into the house. I'm pretty sure my connections are all snug as I've played around with them twice (once switching the bband converters from sat 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 and the other time removing the Monster from the line) and made sure both times the connections were in there snugly. I would guess I should take up your suggestion of removing the bband converters and seeing what happens. I didn't want to do that as the converters will be needed in the next few months with the new HD channels coming on line. But if I removed them and the problem went away, then that could be a good basis to suggest to DTV that they send out some new ones for me (but, with that in mind, wouldn't it be just as effective to simply replace the old bbands with the new ones on my new machine that isn't having this problem - as far as I know?).
Sure "the new ones" should do the same thing. Since the new SATs aren't up yet, it sort of doesn't matter which way you go [for now].
So your Zinwell is outside? Has it [or can it] gotten wet? They weren't made for outside [wet] use.
As you start "going through the drill" to locate the problem, you might want to use some barrel connectors & bypass the multi-switch to see if it is the problem [but I'd think if it was then swapping cables at the tuner would show a change of tuner #].
How "intermittent" is this?

[shendley]

Sure "the new ones" should do the same thing. Since the new SATs aren't up yet, it sort of doesn't matter which way you go [for now].
So your Zinwell is outside? Has it [or can it] gotten wet? They weren't made for outside [wet] use.
As you start "going through the drill" to locate the problem, you might want to use some barrel connectors & bypass the multi-switch to see if it is the problem [but I'd think if it was then swapping cables at the tuner would show a change of tuner #].
How "intermittent" is this?

The Zinwell is pretty shielded from the rain by an overhang. It would have to be a downpour for it to even get a bit damp, I think. As for how intermittent it is: it's very, very intermittent. I've seen it maybe 7 or so times in the last three months. I saw it the most about a month ago when I was breaking in my new Plasma and was running the set on a break in setting every minute I was home to zip through the first 100 hours. Since disconnecting the lines from my Monster, it's been at least two weeks since I've seen it. So it's very hard to figure out. But I have seen that three things can, on different occasions, alleviate the problem: 1) a reset, 2) removing the cable going in the sat 2 connection on the machine and reconnecting it, and now (this one was a surprise), 3) switching to mpeg4 channels and switching back and forth between those for a moment and then going back to my mpeg2 channels.

I think I'll try switching out the bbands with my new ones downstairs and see if that helps.

[veryoldschool]

The Zinwell is pretty shielded from the rain by an overhang. It would have to be a downpour for it to even get a bit damp, I think. As for how intermittent it is: it's very, very intermittent. I've seen it maybe 7 or so times in the last three months. I saw it the most about a month ago when I was breaking in my new Plasma and was running the set on a break in setting every minute I was home to zip through the first 100 hours. Since disconnecting the lines from my Monster, it's been at least two weeks since I've seen it. So it's very hard to figure out. But I have seen that three things can, on different occasions, alleviate the problem: 1) a reset, 2) removing the cable going in the sat 2 connection on the machine and reconnecting it, and now (this one was a surprise), 3) switching to mpeg4 channels and switching back and forth between those for a moment and then going back to my mpeg2 channels.

I think I'll try switching out the bbands with my new ones downstairs and see if that helps.
Your MPEG-4 channels are coming in at the higher frequency block [1650-2150 MHz]. This can be [or have] some strange problems that won't show up at lower frequencies.
I think you're going the right direction.
If you need to, send me a PM and I'll keep working with you, as this thread may fade.
It is always nice when it is a "hard failure" to fix, but this doesn't sound like it will be [for a while at least].