What does the HR-20 have over the Tivo's? Are we going backwards?

[davel]

I have flip-flopped from saying that my hr-20 is great, to now wondering what the heck DTV was thinking by bringing out this Microsoftesque (read we pay for it AND debug it) piece of junk.

Note I have had no "real" issues with the unit but overall the quality of watching, recording TV is far inferior to my old Tivos that I have had for 4 years now.

At first I loved the unit due to the integrated hi-def locals and picture quality but soon realized that we are basically FORCED into this unit due to the fact that no other tivo will receive the MPEG 4 stations.

Let's just talk about the quality of watching, and recording TV which is what these units are for! I know that they are adding all sorts of additional features like internet and upgradability and stuff but keep it to watching TV.

Pros:
1. Integrated OTA guide. Very cool.
2. Quicker Season Pass. Minor cool.
3. You can extend a recording of a show while recording. Cool

Cons:
1. Mentioned a millions times before no DLB
2. Mentioned before no real SLB
3. Fast forward and rewind functionality is so jerky that I find myself using the 30 second skip instead. It is damn near impossible to guage the end of commercials when on FF 3,4 without going over by minutes. If you use FF1 it is so slow that it is hardly worth it.
4. No way to "jump" 15 minutes like on the Tivos which makes fast forwarding a long process on a long recorded show.
5. The prioritizer is dumb meaning that unlike tivo if 2 shows are recording, it will not look into the future to see if the show is on again ala the Sopranos that are on a million times during the week and not record that show.
6. Start timing is off by 30 seconds to a minute. The tivo would record when the time changed to the minute (on the second). The HR-20 waits to start recording.

The FF issue is what put me over the top. With my tivo, I never find myself over FFing even without the jump back. You can easily tell what is going on on the screen while FFing and there isn't a delay between the time you hit the button and the time you see the picture change like there is on the HR 20 only to find you have already gone way past.

These are the major issues that I have with the unit.

Am I way off here? I really think DTV took a huge step backwards in releasing this unit but unfortunately it is the only game in town for the future of DTV....

[jal]

Many of us feel the same way you do. If it were not for MPEG IV compatibility, there's no way I'd want an HR20 over an HR10-250 TIVO.

[mr anderson]

Ditto.

[redrocker]

Agreed

[lman]

I don't appreciate being locked into a 2 year commitment when I received the HR20, since it seems like I was downgraded to an inferior unit that doesn't even have DLB.

[say-what]

As for your cons:

Cons:
1. Mentioned a millions times before no DLB
Yeah, it's not there, but it's no big deal to everyone and you can just record 2 shows and jump between them
2. Mentioned before no real SLB
Not sure what you mean there, but my buffer works fine as long as you don't change the channel. I can watch a recorded program and go back to live with the buffer in tact....
3. Fast forward and rewind functionality is so jerky that I find myself using the 30 second skip instead. It is damn near impossible to guage the end of commercials when on FF 3,4 without going over by minutes. If you use FF1 it is so slow that it is hardly worth it.Well FF3, 4 was no walk in the park with TIVO either and there was a learning curve with FF1,2 in TIVO also before you could stop close to where you wanted to be - their darn autocorrect was more of a pain to me than it was worth.
4. No way to "jump" 15 minutes like on the Tivos which makes fast forwarding a long process on a long recorded show.Huh??? Just hold the FF button for a few seconds and you jump to the next tick - they're spaced 15 minutes apart by default.
5. The prioritizer is dumb meaning that unlike tivo if 2 shows are recording, it will not look into the future to see if the show is on again ala the Sopranos that are on a million times during the week and not record that show.Can't speak here as I haven't run into this problem with either the HR20 or had recordings scheduled with TIVO where it would apply.
6. Start timing is off by 30 seconds to a minute. The tivo would record when the time changed to the minute (on the second). The HR-20 waits to start recording.I haven't had any problems with this....not sure why others are.

Many of us feel the same way you do. If it were not for MPEG IV compatibility, there's no way I'd want an HR20 over an HR10-250 TIVO.After having several years experience with the SD DTIVO and a year with the HD DTIVO, I still had no problem swapping my HR10-250 for a 2nd HR20 after having an HR20 for 4 months.

[jmschnur]

Networking is very nice. I can listen to my CD collection over the HR20 and do. I could not do that with my HR10.

Guide is much faster as well.

HD recordings are good on both machines.

I do not see much of a downside with the HR20s now that the fimrware has been improved. (This is a big deal). D* can do better then the 15c that is current. Lets hope they will.

Oh- Tivo is not doing Direct Tv any more so if you want the Direct Tv channel line up this is what you get.

[mr anderson]

It has cool futuristic mustard yellow and blue colors.

[Earl Bonovich]

Pros:
1. Integrated OTA guide. Very cool.
2. Quicker Season Pass. Minor cool.
3. You can extend a recording of a show while recording. Cool

Cons:
1. Mentioned a millions times before no DLB
2. Mentioned before no real SLB
3. Fast forward and rewind functionality is so jerky that I find myself using the 30 second skip instead. It is damn near impossible to guage the end of commercials when on FF 3,4 without going over by minutes. If you use FF1 it is so slow that it is hardly worth it.
4. No way to "jump" 15 minutes like on the Tivos which makes fast forwarding a long process on a long recorded show.
5. The prioritizer is dumb meaning that unlike tivo if 2 shows are recording, it will not look into the future to see if the show is on again ala the Sopranos that are on a million times during the week and not record that show.
6. Start timing is off by 30 seconds to a minute. The tivo would record when the time changed to the minute (on the second). The HR-20 waits to start recording.


First your cons:
1) Yes there are no DLB's
2) There is a 90 minute SLB... Yes, some people have had some issues with it... and it doesn't function EXACTLY the same as the TiVo product.
3) The FF speeds... yes there is no autocorrection (do you think you would be prefect on your TiVo without it?)... FF4 not intended for commerical skips... As for the other speeds... I just hit the 30s SLIP 6, and then adjust if necessary.
4) Yes there is... the Skip to ticks are there just as they are on the TiVo. No they don't have a dedicated button like the TiVo remote, but the function is there.
5) Umm... not sure about yours, but the HR20 does look forward and schedule the next recording if you have a double conflict.
6) I know others have reported it, not something that has affected me... doesn't mean it is not there.


Things you have missed in the "what does it have":


Caller ID
Interactive Features
Native networking
Same channel overlap (aka you can pad programs on the same channel, with out having to use the 2nd tuner)
90 minute buffer, vs a 30 minute one
Disk space guage
eSATA support (no need to pay a LOT more for a pre-programmed drive, or cracking over a PC to upgrade the drive)
Native RF Remote support (for the OEM RF remote)
Single Wire Multiswitch support
Simultaneous output for 480i and HD at the same time
All outputs active at the same time
Single Button Record Scheduling
Faster Re-prioritization of series link settings

[davel]

Caller ID - phone line is not hooked up nor is it tv related

Native networking - not tv related and who cares if I can't download the shows

Same channel overlap (aka you can pad programs on the same channel, with out having to use the 2nd tuner) - what do you mean?

90 minute buffer, vs a 30 minute one - true, but I never get to 90 minutes without the DLB because even if I am watching a game I flip during the commercials and if I flip I lose the channel so I have to record 2 channels hence the 90 minute buffer rarely comes into affect.

Disk space guage - yes I agree it is a plus

eSATA support (no need to pay a LOT more for a pre-programmed drive, or cracking over a PC to upgrade the drive) - yes I agree upgrading was easier unfortunately the drive that came out was a 320 GB brick that is otherwise unusable in a PC...link (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87968)

Native RF Remote support (for the OEM RF remote) - whoppee I have had an rf remote for years and whats the point of the RF remote if you can't control other components with RF. I can hide the hr-20... Big deal if I have to have all the other components out in the open. If they had an RF - IR converter and allowed you to control other IR components via RF then it would be a value add.

Single Wire Multiswitch support - whats this?

Simultaneous output for 480i and HD at the same time - minor cool if you want to output it to other tv's

All outputs active at the same time - true minor cool

Single Button Record Scheduling - true.

Faster Re-prioritization of series link settings - I guess but tivo did not prioritize it just knew how to get it all.

[Milominderbinder2]

Pros:
There are about 25 others here: TiVo Users Survival Guide (http://tinyurl.com/ydjtmw)

Cons:
4. No way to "jump" 15 minutes ...
This and 111 other top secret tricks are here: Undocumented Tips & Tricks (http://tinyurl.com/yswcpa)

6. Start timing is off by 30 seconds to a minute.
This is a known bug.

Here are some of the Missing Promised Features from the Wish List (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=80600):
• "Display only the channels that are in your current subscription package" p. 33
• The ability to edit "all the programs" in the Prioritizer (even when there are no upcoming episodes) p. 28.
• Apply Favorite Channels as a filter to Search for “just what you want to watch” p. 31
• Search "with your desired...keyword" p. 2 - Allow @, :, etc. & better search logic - AND, OR, NOT.
• Allow Autorecord after a Search by Title as described in the manual on pp. 20 & 31
• Make Caller ID work reliably as promised on page 33 of the manual
• "Select the Scan for Channels button to have the receiver scan local off-air frequencies" p. 78

Also your old TiVo had way more info on shows and was far more accurate. The Slow Motion was easy.

- Craig

[Steve Robertson]

SPEED

[davel]

Its not the autocorrection that I am talking about on the FF, it is the fact that the FF picture is so jerky and skips so many frames that it is impossible to stop remotely where the commercials end. I had very little issues with Tivo even on 4FF stopping (yes I know the auto correction helped) close to the start. With teh HR 20 I just guess because of the lack of displayed frames.

[tiger2005]

Am I way off here? I really think DTV took a huge step backwards in releasing this unit but unfortunately it is the only game in town for the future of DTV....

FiOS! Pray for FiOS!

[Earl Bonovich]

-) Single Wire Multiswitch support - whats this?
-) Faster Re-prioritization of series link settings - I guess but tivo did not prioritize it just knew how to get it all.

Single Wire Multiswitch - Allows you to have dual tuner support, with one just wire. The head end piece (the part that acts like the multiswitch) is being field tested now... should be available for consumer purchase/installation this fall.

Faster re-priortization of series links- This is when you setup your recordings, but you now want show X to have higher priority then show y...and you have to move things up and down the list (Season Pass Manager = Prioritizer)

As for some of the things that you don't use....
Those items dont' apply to you... but they are features that the HR20 has that the Pre-Series3 TiVos don't have (I haven't really dug into T3 that much to see what it can and can't do).

[hilmar2k]

I don't look at it as a "step forward" or "step backward" issue. The HR20 isn't a progression of the HR10. The HR10 used the Tivo interface, which D* doesn't use anymore. Therefore, I look at the HR20 as a new product line, rather than a continuation of the HR10. Therefore, no step backward as far as I'm concerned.

[Earl Bonovich]

FiOS! Pray for FiOS!

You can pray all you want...

But FiOS (or any of the fiber based systems), have a LONG LONG LONG way
to go.... as they require the infrastructure installation, which just simply isn't there yet.

That is of course if they can get past all the legal/governmental bs...

Where I am at...a major suburb of Chicago... I will be lucky if I see a fiber based deliver system in the next 5 years if not significantly longer.

[davel]

Milominderbinder2 thanks for the guide. And others thanks for the additional tips

[davel]

Single Wire Multiswitch - Allows you to have dual tuner support, with one just wire. The head end piece (the part that acts like the multiswitch) is being field tested now... should be available for consumer purchase/installation this fall.

No offense but DTV is doing this specifically to save money so when people upgrade they do not have to run another line for you. This isn't a feature but rather a cost savings for them.

[islesfan]

I have flip-flopped from saying that my hr-20 is great, to now wondering what the heck DTV was thinking by bringing out this Microsoftesque (read we pay for it AND debug it) piece of junk.

Note I have had no "real" issues with the unit but overall the quality of watching, recording TV is far inferior to my old Tivos that I have had for 4 years now.

At first I loved the unit due to the integrated hi-def locals and picture quality but soon realized that we are basically FORCED into this unit due to the fact that no other tivo will receive the MPEG 4 stations.

Let's just talk about the quality of watching, and recording TV which is what these units are for! I know that they are adding all sorts of additional features like internet and upgradability and stuff but keep it to watching TV.

Pros:
1. Integrated OTA guide. Very cool.
2. Quicker Season Pass. Minor cool.
3. You can extend a recording of a show while recording. Cool

Cons:
1. Mentioned a millions times before no DLB
2. Mentioned before no real SLB
3. Fast forward and rewind functionality is so jerky that I find myself using the 30 second skip instead. It is damn near impossible to guage the end of commercials when on FF 3,4 without going over by minutes. If you use FF1 it is so slow that it is hardly worth it.
4. No way to "jump" 15 minutes like on the Tivos which makes fast forwarding a long process on a long recorded show.
5. The prioritizer is dumb meaning that unlike tivo if 2 shows are recording, it will not look into the future to see if the show is on again ala the Sopranos that are on a million times during the week and not record that show.
6. Start timing is off by 30 seconds to a minute. The tivo would record when the time changed to the minute (on the second). The HR-20 waits to start recording.

The FF issue is what put me over the top. With my tivo, I never find myself over FFing even without the jump back. You can easily tell what is going on on the screen while FFing and there isn't a delay between the time you hit the button and the time you see the picture change like there is on the HR 20 only to find you have already gone way past.

These are the major issues that I have with the unit.

Am I way off here? I really think DTV took a huge step backwards in releasing this unit but unfortunately it is the only game in town for the future of DTV....

Ditto
(Except: you can skip to tick)
I would add the lack of the ability to autorecord on the channels you receive. That's the one truly massive drawback to this unit for me. It is virtaully useless for NHL CI as a result. OK, not useless, but a serious drawback. I hate having a DVR where I have to manually schedule the recordings for my team, then babysit the ToDo list to make sure they aren't canceled, all the while running a TiVo as a backup.

The only missed recordings I have anymore are of sports. Unfortunately, the main reason I have TV at all is for sports, so...

[Earl Bonovich]

No offense but DTV is doing this specifically to save money so when people upgrade they do not have to run another line for you. This isn't a feature but rather a cost savings for them.

While it may save some money in some cases...

There are a lot more advantages, then just simply saving on the $10 of coax, and the installer cost for running it..
The switch (the SWM module), will probably on average be just as expensive then the cost of the coax, the ends, and the installer fee to run it...

There are some homes that can't run a second cable...
What if you don't have a basement? And your HOA won't let you run the cables outside... or you don't want them run on the outside of the house...

What if you have a 2nd floor room, that there is no way to get to the wall that you wan the cables on (no attic, or some other barrier).

What if you are in some places that don't have drywall, but use something else... that make it even that more difficult to install.

How about MDU's (Condo's and apartment complexes)... that already pre-ran 1 cable...

How about the fact that I can run TWO HR20's in the same room, with only 1 wire running to that room.. .instead of 4...

Another example: House setup today with cable...
You can take the SWM (which is installable outdoors)... contect the dish with it's four wires to the switch on a short distance, and then tap into that incomming CABLE line on the outside.
No inside wiring necessary (in some cases)... no drilling... no new face plates... nothing.

[davel]

I don't look at it as a "step forward" or "step backward" issue. The HR20 isn't a progression of the HR10. The HR10 used the Tivo interface, which D* doesn't use anymore. Therefore, I look at the HR20 as a new product line, rather than a continuation of the HR10. Therefore, no step backward as far as I'm concerned.

But it IS a progression considering they no longer sell tivos. This isn't TIVO vs DTV, this is DTV vs DTV and I expect my new product to be AS GOOD AS or BETTER than the previous version along with new features. Thats why I call it Microsoftesque because they introduce more bugs before nailing the last ones...

[davel]

Single Wire Multiswitch - Allows you to have dual tuner support, with one just wire. The head end piece (the part that acts like the multiswitch) is being field tested now... should be available for consumer purchase/installation this fall.

So will this be receiver specific for all receivers? And doesn't cable already have this on their DVR's? You can record 2 shows off one cable without extra equipment.

[Earl Bonovich]

But it IS a progression considering they no longer sell tivos. This isn't TIVO vs DTV, this is DTV vs DTV and I expect my new product to be AS GOOD AS or BETTER than the previous version along with new features. Thats why I call it Microsoftesque because they introduce more bugs before nailing the last ones...

But this is the first DVR series that DirecTV has built.

All the previous ones where built by other companies, that made it compatible with DirecTV.

[Milominderbinder2]

SPEED
You are so right. My old Sony TiVO is still so much faster than the Hr20.

But in fairness, in the tests (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=947800&postcount=235), the HR20 has caught up in My Playlist Speed.

It does have far to go to catch up with the Guide and channel change speeds.

They have made progress and made new progress with 0x15f. It is obvious that they are listening to us and have never given up on that.

- Craig

[Earl Bonovich]

So will this be receiver specific for all receivers?

You will need one of the latest generation of receivers...

Right now just the HR20 is compatible.
The D12 (SD non-dvr) is compatible with a software update.
The H20 will be updated to be compatible.
The R15 is not... and will require a new hardware platform, the R16

However, you can mix and match based on your setup...
The SWM modules do support older systems (just not with the single wire), and there are ways that you can set things up, to get all boxes to work in your home.

[davel]

But this is the first DVR series that DirecTV has built.

All the previous ones where built by other companies, that made it compatible with DirecTV.

That is not my issue when I am PAYING to be a beta tester. If they want to give me a unit then that is a different story. It is not my issue that DTV could not work it out with TIVO. When you build a house and the general contractor hires a crappy sub contractor who do you blame? The general contractor.

DTV is the throat to choke on this issue.

[Earl Bonovich]

That is not my issue when I am PAYING to be a beta tester. If they want to give me a unit then that is a different story. It is not my issue that DTV could not work it out with TIVO. When you build a house and the general contractor hires a crappy sub contractor who do you blame? The general contractor.

DTV is the throat to choke on this issue.


You are right... it is not your issue... it is not any of our issues.
But it is what it is...

If you think you are paying them to be a BETA tester, then well... that is your right to have that opinion...

And ultimately... if you are not happy, you will go with someother carrier...
That is your choice as a consumer.

[tiger2005]

You can pray all you want...

But FiOS (or any of the fiber based systems), have a LONG LONG LONG way
to go.... as they require the infrastructure installation, which just simply isn't there yet.

That is of course if they can get past all the legal/governmental bs...

Where I am at...a major suburb of Chicago... I will be lucky if I see a fiber based deliver system in the next 5 years if not significantly longer.

Earl, I'm not sure what Tel Co. you have in Chicago but I can tell you that in Pittsburgh Verizon installed fiber lines last year and FiOS internet was available early in the year (they have covered about 90% of the city in under 1.5 years time). They are expecting to go live with FiOS TV later this year. And Pittsburgh has been one of the cities to receive this service later than other areas on the East Coast. Philly, NYC, etc. are pretty well covered last I checked and most are already up with FiOS TV.

I can tell you that the legal/govenmental bs is VERY MUCH overblown and is basically a marketing ploy by Verizon, IMO, to make it easier for them to manage their franchise agreements. There was an effort in PA late last year to adopt a statewide franchise agreement, but that never made it out of the legislative committee in November. Verizon announced in late November / early December that they would be building a hub in Pittsburgh to provide FiOS TV and the local municipalities were tripping over themselves to get franchise agreements signed with Verizon. They are basically sending the agreements they have with the cable providers to Verizon for review and saying, just draw up the same agreement and replace the cable provider name with Verizon. Its that easy. I'm sure there could be exceptions to this, but I've been following this pretty closely and I haven't read of any instances of hostile negotiations.

[Earl Bonovich]

I am in Illinois and it is AT&T/SBC here..

I am also in a new subdivision that was just wired (With three more subdivision out here as well)... and they were not wired with fiber...

Following some of the stuff here in Illinois, there are some major road blocks.
You see adds from an "unnamed" competitor to cable companies, asking for support... but when you dig and read about it... you find that it is AT&T, and then you see the bickering from both sides.

And that is even before you get into the city politics... that is just to allow them into the state...

So taking away even the physical aspects of what would be needed... around here... it LONG ways to go...

We are just now getting a new CO, so we can have DSL.

Every area is different with regards to the Fiber based distributions.....

[mhayes70]

From what I have seen out there, none of the cable DVR's are any better. Like what was posted earlier, if your not happy then you can always go to someone else. The bad thing for you, I don't know of any company out there that uses Tivo DVR's on there systems. You just have to buy them separately. I may be wrong.

[Earl Bonovich]

From what I have seen out there, none of the cable DVR's are any better. Like what was posted earlier, if your not happy then you can always go to someone else. The bad thing for you, I don't know of any company out there that uses Tivo DVR's on there systems. You just have to buy them separately. I may be wrong.

As of today... there is no other provider that offers an integrated TiVo DVR.

Comcast is going to eventually have their intregrated TiVo unit (anounced 2+ years ago, and not even sure if it is in public beta trial yet).

Cox announced that they are parternering with TiVo... but there hasn't been much information since their announcement.

You have the Series 3 that is compatible with the digital networks via Cable Cards... that is of course if you can get the cards, and they work (which they do in a growing number of cases)... but the S3 isn't cheap... even after a rebate.. (as that is just the cost for the unit, and not the monthly/annual programming fee).

Then the SA's... which are soon going to take a step back.
A lot of cable companies are starting their dump of analog process... Here in the Chicago area... Comcast announced about two months ago, that they are starting it... They are moving all channels except locals, to the digital band. At that point... you will have to rent their DVR or standalone box. Problem with the SA-DT's... they can't do dual tunning with an external box.

Then of course are the single tuner SA's... which will work with a standalone box, from most carriers.

[davel]

And ultimately... if you are not happy, you will go with someother carrier...
That is your choice as a consumer.

Aside from the 2 year commitment they lock you into....:mad:

Don't get me wrong, I am happy with my service I just wish that the product is better.

It doesn't pass the DUHH factor when comparing it to TIVO which is all the QA that should have been needed before release.

[tiger2005]

I am in Illinois and it is AT&T/SBC here..

I am also in a new subdivision that was just wired (With three more subdivision out here as well)... and they were not wired with fiber...

Following some of the stuff here in Illinois, there are some major road blocks.
You see adds from an "unnamed" competitor to cable companies, asking for support... but when you dig and read about it... you find that it is AT&T, and then you see the bickering from both sides.

And that is even before you get into the city politics... that is just to allow them into the state...

So taking away even the physical aspects of what would be needed... around here... it LONG ways to go...

We are just now getting a new CO, so we can have DSL.

Every area is different with regards to the Fiber based distributions.....

And I thought politics was bad in PA!! :eek2::eek2:

[Fish Man]

The bottom line as to why the HR20 exists is this:

DirecTV management decided to dump TiVo and offer their own in-house DVR designs instead.

For the in house designed HD DVR, they attempted to design something comparable in features to the HR10-250. The result was the HR20.

Some of the most popular of TiVo's features could not be copied without violating TiVo patents. (Autocorrect after FF being one example.)

So, we can quibble all day as to whether DirecTV was successful in creating a DVR that was "comparable" features-wise to the HR10. But, they did what they did and the HR20 is what it is. At least they're showing some commitment to continuing to tweak the software, and the "bugs" have been reduced to minor annoyances for me at this point. (I have yet to miss a recording or have my unit, once I replaced my clearly-defective original one, spontaneously reboot, lock up, or do anything really egregious.)

In the end, if I want to be able to record all of DirecTV's HD offerings, the HR20 is the only option. For me, it's still superior to my other options (Dish Network or my local Cable company.)

[mhayes70]

Aside from the 2 year commitment they lock you into....:mad:

Don't get me wrong, I am happy with my service I just wish that the product is better.

It doesn't pass the DUHH factor when comparing it to TIVO which is all the QA that should have been needed before release.

A possibility for you may be try to find a older Tivo based Directv DVR on Ebay. But, you won't be able to get the new HD channels and that won't help you there.

[johnd'oh]

My 2 cents on the HR20 v. DTivo

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, the FF modes of the HR20 really do leave something to be desired. I never used FF on my Tivo, I would always use 30sec skip. (I personally hated the autocorrect). But on the HR20, the FF mode is very difficult to use (especially with MPEG4). They don't show very many frames or they even show frames out of order so it's a crapshoot trying to stop at the end of the commercial break. It just seemed the Tivo was very responsive when doing any play, ff, rew or skip activity. The HR20 is very sluggish. Even trying to get to FF3 takes a second or so for the unit to ramp up to that speed. (Part of that time might be used to decide if "Pinky" should make an appearance :lol: )

As for the 30sec skip, the HR20 drives me crazy. On Tivo, the video would skip over 30 seconds by the time my finger came off the button. So I could easily press the button several times, quickly guage it after each press and stop when I reached the end. And possibly hit replay (8sec) to back up a bit. But on the HR20, the 30sec skip is so slow that I can't stand it. Yeah, I could press it 6 times and wait around a few seconds to see where I end up. Of course there's the bug that might actually rewind the video before even going forward, so who knows where you'll end up. And does anyone else think the 6sec replay is too short!!! Where did they get that number? Did Tivo have a patent on 8 seconds?

Someone mentioned earlier about the jumping 15min. Both can do it, but it's very slow and cumbersome with the HR20. Press and holding a button is very slow, especially if you want to move an hour or so in a recording. Find some other method (Tivo's way was fine with me) to let users move around a recording quicker please.

Oh and the other thing I dearly miss from my Tivo, the ability to hit the left arrow button when I'm within 5 minutes of the show to popup a menu to delete the show. I hate having to FF to the end, or hitting STOP, scrolling to the correct show in my list and then hitting dash-dash.

There are many things to like about the HR20, but it definitely needs a lot more polish, especially regarding the video playback or trick play functionality. Anyway, like I said, there's my 2 cents.

[bonscott87]

Not going backwards for me when it will get 70 new HD channels in a few months that the HR10 can't get. :D

[mikek]

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, the FF modes of the HR20 really do leave something to be desired.

Someone mentioned earlier about the jumping 15min. Both can do it, but it's very slow and cumbersome with the HR20. Press and holding a button is very slow, especially if you want to move an hour or so in a recording. Find some other method (Tivo's way was fine with me) to let users move around a recording quicker please.



I am a new user and I have been perplexed by the inability to move around recordings.

I mentioned it in a few threads, but I guess we are stuck with the crazy system that Directv chose for us.

My LG DVR uses the the arrow buttons to navigate the timeline/progress bar and I can get anywhere in the recording within a few seconds. It is extremely intuitive. But the HR20 only uses the arrow buttons to move through menus.

-mk

[Ken S]

But this is the first DVR series that DirecTV has built.

All the previous ones where built by other companies, that made it compatible with DirecTV.

Earl,

Right...and that gave D years to look at what Tivo was doing and to understand what their customers liked and design and deliver a great box. They chose to not give their customers the choice of DVRs so we expect that they were going to give us better. They promised quite a few things...and haven't delivered.

BTW, when you mention networking. Tivo has HomeNet and has had it for years. The HR20 does not have the support. When I can pull files off my HR20 and view them on other devices on my network (even if it's limited to another HR20) I'd call it networking.

[Jeremy W]

So will this be receiver specific for all receivers? And doesn't cable already have this on their DVR's? You can record 2 shows off one cable without extra equipment.
Cable is a different technology than satellite, there's no way to do what cable does without a piece of equipment like the SWM.

And I haven't seen anyone mention one of the biggest usability things the HR20 has over Tivo: you can actually go into the guide and the playlist while watching a recording! I've always hated that about Tivo.

[Jeremy W]

When I can pull files off my HR20 and view them on other devices on my network (even if it's limited to another HR20) I'd call it networking.
That's not networking, that's ripping. Or if it's from HR20 to HR20, it's multi-room viewing. Totally different from networking.

[rminsk]

Not going backwards for me when it will get 70 new HD channels in a few months that the HR10 can't get. :DOnly if you can reliably record them :lol:

[johnd'oh]

And I haven't seen anyone mention one of the biggest usability things the HR20 has over Tivo: you can actually go into the guide and the playlist while watching a recording! I've always hated that about Tivo.

Actually, I think this is just down to personal preference. That never bothered me when I used Tivo and I could easily continue to live without it. Part of me wishes the HR20 used that screen space to show more menu items on a page so we don't have to scroll as much. While using the Guide, it's nice to see the video window, but in the Playlist or Todo list, I'd rather see more of the list items.

[Titan25]

....Things you have missed in the "what does it have...

Features that were either intentionally omitted at DirecTV's insistence or were not known at the time the last TiVo was built:

Caller ID - A feature that the hardware supports, but which DirecTV CHOSE not to implement
Interactive Features - Easily added, had DirecTV CHOSEN to do so
Native networking - Disabled by DirecTV's choice
eSATA support (no need to pay a LOT more for a pre-programmed drive, or cracking over a PC to upgrade the drive) - Built into the Series 3, and so would have been in any new DirecTiVo
Single Wire Multiswitch support - Would have been added if TiVo was still supported (after all, only two or three DirecTV units support it)
Faster Re-prioritization of series link settings - When you don't check conflicts, re-prioritization can be fast. It's like how Microsoft got XP to shut down faster than NT - they just force every file shut without checking if any are being written to. Eliminating error checks is a lazy way to improve performance.


As for the rest:

Same channel overlap (aka you can pad programs on the same channel, with out having to use the 2nd tuner) - A legitimate point. The TiVo software should be smarter in this area
90 minute buffer, vs a 30 minute one - All DirecTV had to do was ask for this, it is actually adjustable in the software (I know because I have manually adjusted my DirecTiVos to dual 120 minute buffers
Disk space guage - Never saw the need for this, but I can respect the desire of others. Like DLB in the HR20, just something they didn't do.
Native RF Remote support (for the OEM RF remote) - A feature of importance to fewer users than DLB, but which is a simple hardware enhancement that could have been added to a DirecTiVo 3 had such a device been built.
Simultaneous output for 480i and HD at the same time - redundant with the next point
All outputs active at the same time - an issue to even fewer people than RF remotes, but also an enhancement that could have been built into the product
Single Button Record Scheduling - One feature that the HR20 really gets right - just like the Dishplayer did 9 years ago.


My point in this is that most, if not all, of the features that are missing from the HR10 were either intentionally disabled by DirecTV, or were never raised as issues. DirecTV, while owned by News Corp, decided to throw the DVR business to their sister company. The decision had NOTHING to do with technology, or feature sets. It was simply a way to keep more money on the News Corp books. Now, Rupert is moving on and leaving us with his "turd bird."

[Jeremy W]

My point in this is that most, if not all, of the features that are missing from the HR10 were either intentionally disabled by DirecTV, or were never raised as issues.
WOW! You should work for a politician, because your ability to spin is very good!

[Earl Bonovich]

My point in this is that most, if not all, of the features that are missing from the HR10 were either intentionally disabled by DirecTV, or were never raised as issues. DirecTV, while owned by News Corp, decided to throw the DVR business to their sister company. The decision had NOTHING to do with technology, or feature sets. It was simply a way to keep more money on the News Corp books. Now, Rupert is moving on and leaving us with his "turd bird."

Your kidding right?

The HR10-250 is nothing more then an SD-DTivo, that had some updated parts to access the HD... at it's core software, it is identical to the same SD-DTivos that preceded it.

And those where nothign more then SA-TiVos, that had the DSS module dropped in, and the tuners added so it could access DirecTV programming...

Proven by when you where able to run 4.0 SA software on the DTiVo with some hacking.

The HR10-250 is 4+ years old...
Sure some of those things probably could have been done... but at what cost? the box was already at $1,000 subsidized.

We have ZERO idea on what the "next" DTiVo woudl have been like...
We have ZERO idea if the TiVo core software could have handled the interactive function DirecTV wanted to add..


The TiVo/DirecTV-News Crop relationship was two way....
What if TiVo, Inc... didn't want to do the things that DirecTV/News Corp wanted them to do for "their" next box... what if TiVo came back at a price that was too high.

We'll never know....

[Earl Bonovich]

Faster Re-prioritization of series link settings - When you don't check conflicts, re-prioritization can be fast. It's like how Microsoft got XP to shut down faster than NT - they just force every file shut without checking if any are being written to. Eliminating error checks is a lazy way to improve performance.


Oh and on this point...

IIRC... if you do a lot of re-prioritizing... the HR10-250 immediately tries rebuild the entire todo list based on the changes... which is why it takes so long, and can leave you at a "please wait" screen for some time... (some people have even stated over 30 minutes, depending on the number of changes).

IIRC as well, as it has been about a year since I have done any re-prioritizing on a TiVo... when you adjust Season Passes, I don't believe it gives you a conflict management choices... it just reschedules based on the new options you set.

So the HR20... which basically ques the rebuild of the to-do list as a background process... so you can get back to using your DVR, instead of having to "go to bed"... So sure your ToDo list might not update "right then"... but in how many cases are you making the changes for recordings that occuring in the next few hours?


Simultaneous output for 480i and HD at the same time - redundant with the next point
All outputs active at the same time - an issue to even fewer people than RF remotes, but also an enhancement that could have been built into the product


On these here... guess you don't have a DVD recorder, that you want to save things to DVD while you watch the recording..
In my years at TCF... that was one of the top questions, how can I get my S-Video to work, while watching HD still.


We can hash this list over and over and over again... bottom line is...
Some people value the features that TiVo had to offer... some could care less
Some people value the features that the HR20 to offer... some could care less

There will never be a 100% agreement... not even close.
There will always be a feature, even the tinest of one... that someone likes, and someone hates...

Just like DLB... some people just can't live with out.... others... would rather have caller-id on the screen...

Just these lists alone... in this thread... prove those points...
There are some features that the HR20 has, that the TiVo people would like in theres...
And there are some featuers in the TiVo has, that the HR20 would like in there's...
Then there are some Ultimate TV features, that neither of the others have...
And so on....

[bikspk]

What frustrates people is that there are many issues with the HR20-700 (both real and imagined) and DirecTV has no official response, only rumors circulated on forums.

And whenever a person is critical they get the same responses, my favorite being, if you don't like it, then switch to another provider.

I especially love that one apologist gave this thing 9 out of 10 starts on CNET where CNET had to revise their review downwards because of so much negative feedback. It is as if there is some HR20 cult or something.

Maybe some official plan would be nice but I wouldn't expect anything but rumors, especially since when/if a new/expected/advertised functionality is included in a beta everyone gets excited rather than getting ticked because something D said they would fix/include wasn't done.

[Titan25]

Your kidding right?

The HR10-250 is nothing more then an SD-DTivo, that had some updated parts to access the HD... at it's core software, it is identical to the same SD-DTivos that preceded it.

And those where nothign more then SA-TiVos, that had the DSS module dropped in, and the tuners added so it could access DirecTV programming...

Proven by when you where able to run 4.0 SA software on the DTiVo with some hacking.

The HR10-250 is 4+ years old...
Sure some of those things probably could have been done... but at what cost? the box was already at $1,000 subsidized.

We have ZERO idea on what the "next" DTiVo woudl have been like...
We have ZERO idea if the TiVo core software could have handled the interactive function DirecTV wanted to add..


The TiVo/DirecTV-News Crop relationship was two way....
What if TiVo, Inc... didn't want to do the things that DirecTV/News Corp wanted them to do for "their" next box... what if TiVo came back at a price that was too high.

We'll never know....Who's kidding who?

Standalone TiVos play music and display photos from my PC (the much ballyhooed media connection of the HR20) and did 2 years ago.

Standalone TiVos also can download recordings to your PC through TiVo2Go (where IS DirecTV2go???).

Standalone TiVos can also share recordings amoung themselves - MRV - another feature DirecTV MAY deliver someday.

ALL of these features were IN THE DIRECTIVO SOFTWARE but DirecTV ordered TiVo to disable them. I know this because I have turned them all back on in MY DirecTiVos.

If you want to know what the TiVo successor to the HR10 would have been like, then look no further than the Series 3: multiple tuners, builtin ethernet, eSATA port, USB 2.0 ports, VOD support...need I go on?

Fighting over features is pointless - DirecTV got whatever features they asked for from DirecTV (for good or bad). Anything TiVo didn't do, they could have had added. Instead they crippled features toward the end so that their in-house effort would look better by comparison.

The REAL ISSUE is that TiVo is a mature and stable DVR platform. The bugs were largely worked out 6 or 7 years ago. Why DirecTV chose to abandon that platform (and the avid support it had among some users) in favor of effectively starting from scratch is a lesson in corporate avarice. They did it solely to put money in Rupert's pocket.

I have a HR20...not because I LOVE the HR20, but because I can imagine watching TV without a DVR and, for HD, the HR20 is now the only game in town. If there were a Series 3 TiVo with DirecTV 5 LNB support and MPEG4 decoders, I dump the HR20 in a New York minute.

The HR20 is perfectly servicable DVR...but TiVo is a superior DVR (IOW, it can be more confidently relied upon to record what you want to record without babysitting and manual review).

[Tom_S]

You are so right. My old Sony TiVO is still so much faster than the Hr20.


I will never understand this. I have had all the models of DTivo and they are SLOW SLOW SLOW. Guide on TiVo is pitiful. Schedule a recording, SLOW! Reprioritize season passes? might as well go to the store while this processes. Changing channels, well maybe this is a little faster, but I watch prerecorded for the most part, surfing is not my thing.

Basically everything TiVo did was slow. I really do not understand this at all!

[Capmeister]

I happy with my HR-20. It's faster than my HR-10 on many things--especially deletions. I love that I can delete an entire "folder" with two dash hits, as I use one HR-20 just to record SD versions of HD shows just in case the captions are out of sync from the network or there's a problem with HD or over the air.

I miss DLB. I want D* to work on bringing us that. But other than that? I'm happy.

[bonscott87]

Look, Tivo and DirecTV are dead to each other.

Period.

Get over and move on one way or another.

End of story.

[tiger2005]

Look, Tivo and DirecTV are dead to each other.

Period.

Get over and move on one way or another.

End of story.

Wow...very inciteful. Funny, but I think this board would be pretty boring, with minimal posting, without debates like this. Perhaps you are ranting at the wrong people since these people are comparing a product D* used to offer to a new product D* recently released. Perhaps you should be ranting at D* for not introducing the same or BETTER features (DLB, choice of Guide listing, etc.) in their box as people had with their former provider, obviously excluding TiVo's patents.

[mhayes70]

Look, Tivo and DirecTV are dead to each other.

Period.

Get over and move on one way or another.

End of story.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

[upnorth]

Wow...very inciteful. Funny, but I think this board would be pretty boring, with minimal posting, without debates like this. Perhaps you are ranting at the wrong people since these people are comparing a product D* used to offer to a new product D* recently released. Perhaps you should be ranting at D* for not introducing the same or BETTER features (DLB, choice of Guide listing, etc.) in their box as people had with their former provider, obviously excluding TiVo's patents.

IMO D* will add more HD DVRS to there customer base in the next year than already exist now and most of these will be to first time users so all these TiVo comparisons will be dead and over as most will not know what Tivo is or was.
There is no way to know that if D* continued with a MPEG-4 TiVo that they would not have some of the same issues we see now.
I have been enjoying my HR20 since Sept 2006 and it continues to improve.;)

[Ken S]

That's not networking, that's ripping. Or if it's from HR20 to HR20, it's multi-room viewing. Totally different from networking.

No, that's networking. Being able to view and control the files on one device from another.

In addition, the Tivos can now be used to purchase and download programming from Amazon. I guess that's not networking either.

I guess networking to you is defined as badly displaying pictures and/or some music from one particular type of server and not being able to interact in any way with any other device. That's not networking...that's crippled.

[Earl Bonovich]

Standalone TiVos play music and display photos from my PC (the much ballyhooed media connection of the HR20) and did 2 years ago.

Standalone TiVos also can download recordings to your PC through TiVo2Go (where IS DirecTV2go???).

Standalone TiVos can also share recordings amoung themselves - MRV - another feature DirecTV MAY deliver someday.

ALL of these features were IN THE DIRECTIVO SOFTWARE but DirecTV ordered TiVo to disable them. I know this because I have turned them all back on in MY DirecTiVos.


One thing that is different... In the SA world, you are dealing with ANALOG recordings... there are restrictions (legal), that make the DIGITAL recordings (which all of them on the DirecTivos are)... A mess...

Opening a network connection that could possible use for extraction of those recordings, even opens a bigger can of worms... (and what was one of the first things people did once they got the network connections working on a DTivo... extracting the recordings)

IIRC- The T3 still doesn't have MRV, or the ability to store the recordings to your computer.


If you want to know what the TiVo successor to the HR10 would have been like, then look no further than the Series 3: multiple tuners, builtin ethernet, eSATA port, USB 2.0 ports, VOD support...need I go on?


VOD support? for which carrier... last time I checked, the T3 is not compatible with Cable Card 2.0, and CC1.0 does not allow the VOD.

USB 2.0 ports, for what? the wireless nics?


The REAL ISSUE is that TiVo is a mature and stable DVR platform. The bugs were largely worked out 6 or 7 years ago. Why DirecTV chose to abandon that platform (and the avid support it had among some users) in favor of effectively starting from scratch is a lesson in corporate avarice. They did it solely to put money in Rupert's pocket.


So if it is so mature and stable DVR platform... then why is the latest generation of the system T3... seem to have it's share of problems:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51

Or why the latest software updates for the mature HR10-250 (which TiVo writes and tests), is not doing so good...

"Soley to put money in Rupert's procket"....
How much money do you think they have saved? NET... after the cost of the research/development marketing, ect... for the new DVR line... to save the $1.50 a month per account...



As we both said... we can go back and forth for days... and never come to a concensus...

We will never know what a new DTiVo would have been... could have been similar to a T3... could have been completely different... Could have cost more then a T3... could have cost less then an HR20...

[papa_azteca]

That is not my issue when I am PAYING to be a beta tester. If they want to give me a unit then that is a different story. It is not my issue that DTV could not work it out with TIVO.

I have a problem with ppl stating that they are not beta testers. Many ppl, not all, but a good majority, here on this forum knew the issues that plagued the HR20 and what features were not available when it was first released last fall. Yet many ppl here share how they received their HR20 at a reduced price and in my opinion, knew what they were getting into. What toro caca! Look, davel, if your unhappy with the product that you agreed to, then cancel your services and find another company that will meet your needs with their HD DVR. So what if you have a committment; pay it or fight it. No consumer should feel stuck; let your wallet do the talking. But stop your whining. "Oh poor me, D* forced me to take this. They should have stayed with TIVO. I'm a beta tester." Many ppl out there want the newest and latest thing without thinking that there might be some issues with a new product. Up until 4 years ago I was one of those. Not anymore for me. I have upgraded to the HR20 but I knew what I was getting into and lucky for me have not experience many of the issues that ppl here have reported.

I don't know why D* decided not to continue business with TIVO, and honestly, I could care less. IMHO, the HR20 is either a superior or an inferior product; it's a new product line that will meet the needs of technological change. If I didn't want to agree with giving up my HR10-250 then I would have left D*.

[Steve]

I will never understand this. I have had all the models of DTivo and they are SLOW SLOW SLOW. Guide on TiVo is pitiful. Schedule a recording, SLOW! Reprioritize season passes? might as well go to the store while this processes. Changing channels, well maybe this is a little faster, but I watch prerecorded for the most part, surfing is not my thing.

Basically everything TiVo did was slow. I really do not understand this at all!I'm not taking sides in this debate, but in fairness to the HR10, I'd like to point out that slowness in setting up recordings and season's passes went away with the database rewrite incorporated in the 6.x s/w. No operation took longer than 30 seconds, IIRC, even with my 35-40 SP's. Still not as fast as the HR20, but more than acceptable, since the whole HR10 database was updated in one shot (with no further background updating required, AFAIK). /s

[carl6]

Funny, but I think this board would be pretty boring, with minimal posting, without debates like this.

The only problem that I see is that we see this debate over and over and over. It began when DirecTV first released the R15, and the DVR Plus versus Tivo debate began. Every single aspect of the differences has been debated and re-debated repeatedly. I have seen nothing new brought up since the release of the HR20, only repeats of the same comparisons.

Yes, there are differences. They are recognized, and documented.

Most of the "complaints" are related to the different way the DVR Plus series does things from Tivo, as opposed to something actually being "good" or "bad". When you are used to doing things a certain way, when you are used to how a certain remote control operates, etc., it is difficult to change and it also makes you wonder why a company would introduce those types of changes. But if you do a little research, you'll see that every point you make has already been made and thoroughly discussed, before.

Carl

[papa_azteca]

Wow...very inciteful. Funny, but I think this board would be pretty boring, with minimal posting, without debates like this. Perhaps you are ranting at the wrong people since these people are comparing a product D* used to offer to a new product D* recently released. Perhaps you should be ranting at D* for not introducing the same or BETTER features (DLB, choice of Guide listing, etc.) in their box as people had with their former provider, obviously excluding TiVo's patents.

TIVO is behind:
1) Time consuming when setting up a SP and would have to stop watching the program I want to set up the SP for vs. 2 clicks on the remote or by using the mini-guide, which TIVO does not have
2) Time consuming when deleting shows o-n-e a-t a t-i-m-e vs. the ability to click on the ones that I want to delete and delete them
3) Not knowing how much space I have a available and guessing on what I need to delete in order to record a live PPV event vs. knowing how much space I have
4) Missing the program I am watching in order to view my guide or go through the menus vs. picture-in-guide/menu
5) No interactivity vs. Interactivity
6) No Caller ID vs. Caller ID (not a big one for me but for some it is a must)
7) Only supports mpeg2 vs. supports both mpeg2 and mpeg4 (TIVO must have had an opportunity to try something different but didn't; look at their use of the CableCard for their current HD DVR)
8) Ratings limit locks on HR20 also block the description of the program (this is a plus with a house hold of children that are learning how to read)

So I would say that given these differences TIVO has always been a inferior product.

[davel]

I have a problem with ppl stating that they are not beta testers. Many ppl, not all, but a good majority, here on this forum knew the issues that plagued the HR20 and what features were not available when it was first released last fall. Yet many ppl here share how they received their HR20 at a reduced price and in my opinion, knew what they were getting into. What toro caca! Look, davel, if your unhappy with the product that you agreed to, then cancel your services and find another company that will meet your needs with their HD DVR. So what if you have a committment; pay it or fight it. No consumer should feel stuck; let your wallet do the talking. But stop your whining. "Oh poor me, D* forced me to take this. They should have stayed with TIVO. I'm a beta tester." Many ppl out there want the newest and latest thing without thinking that there might be some issues with a new product. Up until 4 years ago I was one of those. Not anymore for me. I have upgraded to the HR20 but I knew what I was getting into and lucky for me have not experience many of the issues that ppl here have reported.

I don't know why D* decided not to continue business with TIVO, and honestly, I could care less. IMHO, the HR20 is either a superior or an inferior product; it's a new product line that will meet the needs of technological change. If I didn't want to agree with giving up my HR10-250 then I would have left D*.


I like DirecTV, I like Tivo, I like TV, I like recorded TV, I like fast fowarding smoothly through TV, I like knowing my programs will be recorded when I say they will be. I like Hi DEF. If I want the last one on the first one for the future I have to put up the third through next to last not being right. Aside from the last one, the second one did all of the other ones...

Just fix the product. The product is not in uncharted waters, they are not inventing a concept like Tivo did. 6+ damn months and there are still MAJOR KNOWN bugs.

[mhayes70]

I like DirecTV, I like Tivo, I like TV, I like recorded TV, I like fast fowarding smoothly through TV, I like knowing my programs will be recorded when I say they will be. I like Hi DEF. If I want the last one on the first one for the future I have to put up the third through next to last not being right. Aside from the last one, the second one did all of the other ones...

Just fix the product. The product is not in uncharted waters, they are not inventing a concept like Tivo did. 6+ damn months and there are still MAJOR KNOWN bugs.

and I guess you are saying that Tivo has no bugs at all?????

[davel]

and I guess you are saying that Tivo has no bugs at all?????


no, there were "dead remote" issues that required the plug to be pulled but I never wondered if a program was going to record or not, or if it would start on time. I have 2 series 1 boxes and the software is YEARS old and the FEW problems are negligable.

[Duffinator]

Single Wire Multiswitch - Allows you to have dual tuner support, with one just wire. The head end piece (the part that acts like the multiswitch) is being field tested now... should be available for consumer purchase/installation this fall.More info please. Is this multiswitch coming of the dish or is it local to each STB? How large is it and is it powered? Any idea how much it will cost?

Thanks

[Steve]

and I guess you are saying that Tivo has no bugs at all?????Again, in fairness to Tivo, there are essentially no major bugs out there with the current feature set. (The Tivo feature wish list is another story.) You can verify this over on the TivoCommunity (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=36) forum. There's the odd user who has hardware problems and the same guide data issues that affect HR20 users as well, but the unit is very stable, as you would imagine it would be after 2-3 years in the field. /s

[houskamp]

More info please. Is this multiswitch coming of the dish or is it local to each STB? How large is it and is it powered? Any idea how much it will cost?

Thanks

See the Cutting Edge forum..

[Earl Bonovich]

More info please. Is this multiswitch coming of the dish or is it local to each STB? How large is it and is it powered? Any idea how much it will cost?

Thanks

As housekamp said... a lot more information in the cutting edge forum..
But quickly:

Multiswitch off the dish...
It is about 6" by 6" (roughly)
And yes it is powered.

Don't know about the cost, but it should be around the same cost as multiswitches in general

[Jeremy W]

ALL of these features were IN THE DIRECTIVO SOFTWARE but DirecTV ordered TiVo to disable them.
How do you know it was DirecTV that didn't want them enabled? Maybe Tivo told DirecTV that since they are only getting $2/month or whatever per sub, they wouldn't provide them with a DVR that matches the SAs in features. Tivo would rather have a $12/month sub than a $2/month sub, so why not give people a reason to get that $12/month sub? You're making assumptions without knowledge of what led to the decisions, simply to bash DirecTV.

[jdspencer]

This seems to be a good place to ask this question that I found on the TiVo Community board. I think it would interesting to see what you guys here think.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5228540

I need to ask a question.

Hypothetically, if a miracle occurred and DirecTV fell back in love with Tivo, could Tivo software be developed to load onto a HR20? Then could HR20s be upgraded to become Tivo DVRs that support MPEG-4????? Or is there a hardware limitation?

Especially, since there are reports of Liberty looking at TiVo again.

[Steve]

[...]Especially, since there are reports of Liberty looking at TiVo again.There are no reports of Liberty looking at Tivo again. Re-read the Reuters blurb. /s

[Cyrus]

I have a question regarding hr10. My mom has one and it's a damn fine machine, though I prefer my own hr20. I heard so much about DLB so I tried using it on hr10, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched back and forth between 2 channels and the buffer got flushed each time a channel changed. Is there a trick to enable it? Do I need to pause or do something else?

[jdspencer]

There are no reports of Liberty looking at Tivo again. Re-read the Reuters blurb. /sOkay, then there is a lot of conjecture. But I'd still like to know what you guys think about the original question.

I have a question regarding hr10. My mom has one and it's a damn fine machine, though I prefer my own hr20. I heard so much about DLB so I tried using it on hr10, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched back and forth between 2 channels and the buffer got flushed each time a channel changed. Is there a trick to enable it? Do I need to pause or do something else?To maintain the two buffers you swap tuners by hitting the down arrow on the remote.

[Duffinator]

I have a question regarding hr10. My mom has one and it's a damn fine machine, though I prefer my own hr20. I heard so much about DLB so I tried using it on hr10, but I couldn't get it to work. I switched back and forth between 2 channels and the buffer got flushed each time a channel changed. Is there a trick to enable it? Do I need to pause or do something else?It doesn't work between two channels it works between the two tuners. You need to push LIVE TV to switch between the two tuners. Give that a try.

[VLaslow]

In just 3 months many of us will have had our HR20's for 1 year. I came late to the TIVO game and wasn't involved in the progression of its capabilities. Nonetheless, I loved those boxes.

These 9 months of constant change on the HR20 have not been easy, BUT it's a very good box now and I expect it to get better from here. I have an HR10-250 in the next room; it's my wife's unit to use. I'm betting she won't miss it when we make the switch to another HR20.

Oh, and Earl, having all of the outputs active at the same time is absolutely wonderful for moving pictures around the house or saving a program externally.

[BobV]

As I said before:
There is a rocket that is going to be launched very soon that will kill Tivo for sure.
Code name = D10.

Then at the end of Tivo suffering for a little while there will be another rocket
launched to put Tivo out of its misery.
Code name = D11.
!danger:

So your best bet is to move on to new frontiers.:grin:

[jdspencer]

As I said before:
There is a rocket that is going to be launched very soon that will kill Tivo for sure.
Code name = D10.

Then at the end of Tivo suffering for a little while there will be another rocket
launched to put Tivo out of its misery.
Code name = D11.
!danger:

So your best bet is to move on to new frontiers.:grin:This is somewhat true, but I expect my HR10 to record OTA HD for quite some time. Along with the SD channels as it will be a long time before DirecTV transitions away from SD. How long is that? Who knows?

[Jeremy W]

This is somewhat true, but I expect my HR10 to record OTA HD for quite some time.
That's fine, stick with your 5 or 6 HD channels. I'll be enjoying my 100+ HD channels.

[Jeremy W]

But I'd still like to know what you guys think about the original question.
Tivo was able to port their software onto Motorola's craptastic DVR boxes, so I'm sure they'd be able to do the same with the HR20. Will they? Not a chance.

[jonaswan2]

You know, I've always thought that the HR20 was originally modeled after the R15 features-wise. The R15 was definately not modeled after TiVo (unless you like to believe that all DVRs that came out after TiVo were modeled after it), so I don't know why so many people are upset.

[Jeremy W]

You know, I've always thought that the HR20 was originally modeled after the R15 features-wise.
For the most part, it was. But at this point in time, the HR20 is ahead of the R15 in features.

[BobV]

Here is another one for yah! Tivo has been strong arming companys for years.
Dtv for one and Dtv will not put up with that crap from any company any more!
Lesson learned!
There a lot of companys making new dvrs every day and pretty soon something has to give. Remember Ma Bell ?

Besides this time next year there will be a new Dtv dvr and then we all can
b**ch about the differants of the two..

[jdspencer]

There a lot of companys making new dvrs every day and pretty soon something has to give. Remember Ma Bell ?And many of those baby Bells are merging together again. :)

[jimmymiko]

My HR20 hasn't rebooted once in three weeks compared to the twice a week reboots with the tivo. I haven't turned on the TV to a black screen in three weeks either.

[Wotan]

Many of us feel the same way you do. If it were not for MPEG IV compatibility, there's no way I'd want an HR20 over an HR10-250 TIVO.

I totally agree.

[Jhon69]

For the most part, it was. But at this point in time, the HR20 is ahead of the R15 in features.



Yes we know.Wish NDS would turn over the R15 platform to Directv.:rolleyes:

[mganga]

if only there were an mpeg4 tivo...

[Duffinator]

if only there were an mpeg4 tivo...There's not. Almost two months with my first HR20-100 and only one reboot so far.

[BobV]

There's not. Almost two months with my first HR20-100 and only one reboot so far.

I beg to differ.
Tivo has a HD stand-a-lone unit model S3.
But it is a $700.00 paper weight.

HR20 cost is $0 to $199 and is made for sat peeps with great support!!
Tivo S3 cost is $700 and up with mager problems, worthless to sat peeps.

[jonaswan2]

For the most part, it was. But at this point in time, the HR20 is ahead of the R15 in features.

I don't think that was my point.

I just don't know why people are constantly comparing the HR20 to the TiVo when the HR20 was never meant to be a TiVo.

It's better than the R15, so there shouldn't be any problems or complaints with people right?

[Drew2k]

You know, I've always thought that the HR20 was originally modeled after the R15 features-wise.For the most part, it was. But at this point in time, the HR20 is ahead of the R15 in features.I don't think that was my point.

I just don't know why people are constantly comparing the HR20 to the TiVo when the HR20 was never meant to be a TiVo.

It's better than the R15, so there shouldn't be any problems or complaints with people right?Jeremy is only confirming your first point (that HR20 was modeled after R15) and added that the HR20 has now surpassed the R15. He was not commenting on TiVo at all in his response.

[Duffinator]

I beg to differ.
Tivo has a HD stand-a-lone unit model S3.
But it is a $700.00 paper weight.

HR20 cost is $0 to $199 and is made for sat peeps with great support!!
Tivo S3 cost is $700 and up with mager problems, worthless to sat peeps.This is a DTV forum and my comment is directed at what's available for DTV. With all the negative press regarding the HR20 I must say that it's exceeded my expectations. Maybe I'm lucky but my HR20-100's have been trouble free so far and the only thing I miss from my HR10 is the 30 second skip. But there is no guarantee that TiVo would have provided that hidden feature in future boxes.

[Sander]

This is a DTV forum and my comment is directed at what's available for DTV. With all the negative press regarding the HR20 I must say that it's exceeded my expectations. Maybe I'm lucky but my HR20-100's have been trouble free so far and the only thing I miss from my HR10 is the 30 second skip. But there is no guarantee that TiVo would have provided that hidden feature in future boxes.

I would agree with you. I love my HR20. Aside from a few buglets, it is so much more feature-rich than my old TiVo. I've had only one reboot since the end of April when the HR20 arrived. I've even started to get use to the HR20 30-sec. skip.

My advice to investors, "Sell your TiVo stock today! :grin:

[Duffinator]

I would agree with you. I love my HR20. Aside from a few buglets, it is so much more feature-rich than my old TiVo. I've had only one reboot since the end of April when the HR20 arrived. I've even started to get use to the HR20 30-sec. skip.

My advice to investors, "Sell your TiVo stock today! :grin:Yep sell that stock and your HR10's. :D

[BobV]

Yep sell that stock and your HR10's. :D

Yah! Sell your HR10 on Flea bay for a profit, There will always be a die head
that likes to buy paper weights.:grin:

[Marcia_Brady]

Jeremy is only confirming your first point (that HR20 was modeled after R15) and added that the HR20 has now surpassed the R15. He was not commenting on TiVo at all in his response.



Now I know who to come to when I want someone else's post interpreted.

;)

[Jeremy W]

Now I know who to come to when I want someone else's post interpreted.
Well, he was right.