New Dish Locals

[peallen]

Well this is my first message...I have been with Dish for little over a year and am dying for my locals to be added. I live in Memphis and know that if the merger had gone through I would have gotten my locals due to DTV carrying Memphis. My question is since the merger looks dead any idea on a time table to get Memphis added, I think we are the 40th largest market? Thanks for the help.

[Karl Foster]

Dish has decided (for whatever reason) to bypass some larger cities for smaller ones recently. There hasn't been anything posted about Memphis locals on Dish. If you live in Chico, California, you're in luck, if you're in Memphis, Baltimore, Columbus, Hartford, or Milwaukee, no locals for you. Who really knows why?

[btbrossard]

I saw this list posted on this forum a few days ago of cities that will be getting local channels this fall/winter:

Las Vagas, NV (52 largest Market)

Chico, CA (132 largest Market)

Buffalo, NY (44 largest Market)

Tyler, TX (109 largest Market)

Des Moines, IA (72 largest Market)

Jacksonville, FL (51 largest Market)

Anchorage, AK (156 largest Market)

Colorado Springs, CO (94 largest Market)

However, the poster of this list has since removed the list, so take it how you wish. I live in Milwaukee (31 largest Market) and we still do not have locals from Dish.

:soapbox:
It is rather upsetting to see Tyler, TX and Chico, CA get locals, when MAJOR markets still do not have locals.

I was hopeful that Milwaukee would get locals from Dish after E*8 came into service.

Originally, Milwaukee was under a spot beam from E*8. This is no longer the case. I can currently receive a spot beam signal from E*8 transponder 4, but the signal has kept going down ever since the bird came into service. It used to be at about 100% signal strength; it's now down to well below 50% signal strength and keeps falling every day.

I think that E* must throw darts at a map to decide where to add local markets. Rational thought does not (obviously) play a factor.

/Benjamin

[Mike123abc]

Echostar has stated that there are 2 driving factors leading to a city being put on Dish:

1. They have to be able to get the Major stations (ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC) at a price they like (this rules out some of the larger markets)

2. Smaller markets get picked up as spots are available. A small market can fill out a spot transponder because they usually only have a few stations so they fill them as they have room.

Tyler fits on the TX spots, there is huge capacity in TX because the state is very large so spots can go there without interfering with other areas. Same thing with CA. There are a bunch of spots on CA. Places like the NE with a bunch of big markets all crowded together cause capacity problems.

[AJ2086]

Hartford only has about 8-10 networks! Pick them up! Then I will go with E*.

[Darkman]

btbgrossard - Colorado Springs locals exist already...

No Grand Forks or Fargo i see :-)

[btbrossard]

Originally posted by Darkman
btbgrossard - Colorado Springs locals exist already...

No Grand Forks or Fargo i see :-)

I did not compare the list someone posted on this site to what E* already offers. My mistake. I feel gross about it.

The problem I have is that E* can no longer offer Milwaukee locals with E7 or E8, even if they wanted to. Milwaukee does not fall under a spot beam from E8. We fall well within a spot beam from E7, but that beam is filled with Grand Rapids MI.

The market size between the two are about the same, but Grand Rapids is hit with a spot beam from both E7 and E8. E* chose to offer the locals for Grand Rapids on the spot beam that also covered Milwaukee, instead of offering Grand Rapids on the beam that does not hit Milwaukee (E8). This could free up capacity for Milwaukee, if they wanted to.

This is the kind of thing that makes me hope that the merger will die soon. At least Milwaukee is offered on DirecTV.

On a side note about locals, could E* move the locations of the spot beams in the future, if they wanted to?

/Benjamin

[TNGTony]

BT,

Colorado Springs is not yet available to mere mortals. However, the full power stations are uplinked to the New Mexico Spot Beam. Eventually the CS locals will be made available. I thought it was going to be today (wednesday). But maybe next week.

See ya
Tony

[Darkman]

ahhh..i see...that's why...
OK :)

[Darkman]

BT - from that list of yours - Colorado Spring is joining soon,
and Las Vegas and Jacksonville - looks like just joining soon too in the 9000s

[bryan27]

They have to be able to get the Major stations (ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC) at a price they like (this rules out some of the larger markets)

I think this is bogus. Fresno lacks both FOX & CBS, Harrisburg lacks CBS, Honolulu lacks FOX, yet these cities are offered. Rather than waste everybody's time by negotiating carriage and getting consent by some of the stations and not others just carry the ones that say yes.

If I was a commercial station I would put in my consent that my station must be offered to local subscribers on such and such a date. This may have been the case with the 3 cities lacking major affiliates, a station may have stipulated a date when service would begin.

[Mike123abc]

I agree it is a bogus statement. You would think that they would carry any station they could in the top 50 markets, and let people complain to the station if the affiliates did not want to give retransmission rights.

I do not see the business advantage of not carrying the top 50 markets. I can see with the smaller markets that it is not worth messing around with them, if you get them, you get them, if not get a market that will cooperate.

At the rate Dish is going, the spots will be filled up soon with a bunch of small markets and the big markets that are not carried now will probably never be carried. Maybe they have found out that people will pay anything for LIL in small markets and big markets are a harder sell.

[Stu]

Memphis sounds like you are in the same boat we are in with Norfolk VA.
"D" started locals in Sept.......and I don't think "E" for whatever reason is going to be giving us locals anytime soon, if ever.
Just my luck for going with "E" 3 years ago instead of "D"..... go figure.

[mattb]

I still wish they offered Columbus Ohio Locals on E* if it wasnt for skyangel i would be a D* customer.

[kstuart]

I thought that it was well known that they put up the cities that are going to lead to the most Dish Network subscribers.

For example, the entire Chico-Redding DMA consists of very rural areas with either very lame analog cable systems (towns of 2,000 people) or no cable system at all. In such a DMA, adding the locals would remove any possible reason for anyone to subscribe to cable (other than possibly cable modems or lack of ability to see 110/119).

Thus, the Dish Network subscriber base in such DMAs might end up being more than in urban areas where many people can't or don't want to put up a dish, and where cable systems have 150 channels and a digital tier, and thus there is less incentive to switch.

Lastly, as someone pointed out, it is no longer a big national pool of bandwidth. They have put up these spotbeams and each one can support a certain number of channels ONLY into the area of the spotbeam.

Thus, each spotbeam's channels is a separate decision. Since the Northern California beam does not reach Ohio, it is irrelevant which larger Ohio DMAs are not currently serviced - the only relevance is what DMAs in the Northern California spotbeam would be the best to add.

[cliffy18]

I would have to agree with Kstuart.

I live in the Chico/Redding market and other than FOX I cannot get anything else.

I know that for people in bigger cities may not like it

[AFH]

Guys we seem to forget that Dish just does not want the pay the money for retrans rights that Directv seems to pay. You see this in West Palm and in Jacksonville where I am. Directv began carrying WPB about two years ago and Dish just put them up this summer. Dish is not carrying the CBS station there because they wanted to much money. Why did all the stations in WPB not have a problem with the offer Directv gave them? Obviously, Dish does not offer the same price as Directv.

In Jacksonville, Directv came in and signed up all the stations in the market. Dish comes in behind DTV and tries to come to and agreement and the stations will have nothing of it. Charlie then goes on the Charlie Chat this month and says that E* could not come to a retrans agreement with the stations in Jax so they won't be on in Oct. as they originally thought.

Common sense will tell you that if company A gives you x amount of dollars and company B comes in and offers you a lesser amount you are going to deal with A and not with B until B meets your demands. That is what seems to be happening to Dish in the larger markets where DTV offers LIL but for someone reason DISH does not, but not for a lack of trying. They do not want to pay the money that DTV does and that's the bottom line.

[Rayser]

Actually , a more reasonable assumption is that since E* has negotiated hundreds of retrans agreements around the country and the state of Florida, the local Jacksonville station is asking for something not standard and D* caved.

[Mark Holtz]

It all depends. I have a funny feeling that part of Dish's selection process for locals is a combination of which major markets have pissed-off cable customers and how few channels Dish can get away with carrying.

I like to pick on Cincinnati and San Diego, partially because of TNG Tony. In Cincinnati, according to TNGTony, the station has offered to pay for the equipment in order to carry the local UPN affiliate on Dish. But, because they are technically a low-power station, Dish refuses to carry it, even though DirecTV and the local Cable company carry the station.

Same thing with San Diego. There are a lot more stations than Dish carries. But, because the transmitter equipment is located in Mexico, they have a call letter beginning with X, and thus do not qualify for must carry.

Now, look at the markets being added. is a sub-100 DMA, yet it is being carried. The local spot-beam map indicates that it will only cover a small portion of Nevada including Reno and Carson City. Yet, how many stations does Reno have? Only the majors. I actually drove by one of the Reno stations several times, and it's a TINY place. But, if all you are doing is rebroadcasting network and syndicated programming, and don't have a local newscast, you don't need a big place.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Rayser
Actually , a more reasonable assumption is that since E* has negotiated hundreds of retrans agreements around the country and the state of Florida, the local Jacksonville station is asking for something not standard and D* caved.

D* may have "caved" (I assume you are using this as a negative slam), but they are in full compliance of must-carry. There aren't any lawsuits filed by D* to insure that they don't carry some stations, while E* seems to have their butt prints on the benches at the local courthouse from spending so much time there trying to not comply. So while E* will carry the banner of "we won't cave to broadcaster demands" and act like the victims, they will pay lawyers many $$$ to file suit after suit.

Don't get me started on the "two dish" solution to must-carry. While both D* and E* have all of our locals here in SLC, E* requires two dishes on the roof to get PBS and a couple of locals, while D* requires only one 18" dish to receive them all.

[btbrossard]

Why does Dish send out the following e-mail to all customers who inquire about locals:

We offer locals from 47 markets now. At the launch of our last satellite, Echo VIII, we announced plans to provide local networks from 26 more markets. Through the successful launch of Echo VII, our seventh satellite on 02/21/02 and Echo VIII launched on 8/22/02, we plan to be able to provide 30 more...a total of more than 90 markets for local networks!* Therefore, we are confident that you will see your city's locals available in the near future.

I find it odd that they would say that they are confident they will offer my city in the near future when they know darn well it will be sometime next to never.

I sent an e-mail to the sales/customer service dept before I signed up for Dish, and got this response. This is the exact response I got when I asked about locals about a week ago.

The e-mail said they will offer more than 90 local markets. When I watched the Charlie merger chat on the 14th, he said they hoped to offer slightly more than 50. Which is it?

Is it just me, or does Dish like to lie through their teeth when it comes to local channels?

/Benjamin "Should have gone with DirecTV" Brossard

[BrettR]

Originally posted by kstuart
I thought that it was well known that they put up the cities that are going to lead to the most Dish Network subscribers.

For example, the entire Chico-Redding DMA consists of very rural areas with either very lame analog cable systems (towns of 2,000 people) or no cable system at all. In such a DMA, adding the locals would remove any possible reason for anyone to subscribe to cable (other than possibly cable modems or lack of ability to see 110/119).

Thus, the Dish Network subscriber base in such DMAs might end up being more than in urban areas where many people can't or don't want to put up a dish, and where cable systems have 150 channels and a digital tier, and thus there is less incentive to switch.

Lastly, as someone pointed out, it is no longer a big national pool of bandwidth. They have put up these spotbeams and each one can support a certain number of channels ONLY into the area of the spotbeam.

Thus, each spotbeam's channels is a separate decision. Since the Northern California beam does not reach Ohio, it is irrelevant which larger Ohio DMAs are not currently serviced - the only relevance is what DMAs in the Northern California spotbeam would be the best to add.


I'm sure Dish could start an aggressive Dish campaign in the smaller markets too. The cost to advertise on a network station is cheaper in the smaller DMAs. On WMGM an NBC station which is like a small DMA station, I saw the county sheriff have a commercial. I assume the cost to advertise is very cheap.

Dish does not advertise much at all (in terms of TV) here in Philadelhpia though DirecTV and Comcast do. Dish does advertise in the yellow pages and local newspapers around my region though.

I wonder if Dish will carry Salisbury MD locals just to screw Baltimore MD viewers. Who knows, maybe Dish finds pleasure in this. Salisbury is a tiny market (with a CBS, ABC but no NBC or FOX). I get this market only with skip (or is it tropo?) in the summer (at night).

[cws80us]

It seems to me that instead of competing with D* in the larger markets, Dish wants to try and add customers in some of the smaller markets the D* doesn't offer. I guess they feel they the number of customers they can add in these smaller markets is greater than the number that they might lose in the larger markets that they don't offer. It's a dangerous game they're playing.

[jeffcarp]

Anyone have information on when Des Moines will launch? I know 4th quarter but my installer last night said it was originally to be 10/23, which didn't happen. Just trying to narrow it down a bit.

[jeffcarp]

I don't think it is unreasonable for Dish to start embracing midsize markets for locals and bypass the larger ones. In a lot of the large markets, there is a large entrenched cable company and sometimes more than one. If there is already cable competition, a customer will be less likely to "need" to switch to Dish. In the midsize markets there is almost always just 1 cable company. Therefore, Dish providing locals provides the only competition. They will likely get a larger number of customers, even if the market is technically smaller.

[AFH]

Z'loth,

You wanna talk about issues with cable companies look no further than here in Jax. If Dish was looking to sign stations in markets that have problems with the local cable company they would have signed Jax in a heartbeat. The problems with At&T and the City of Jacksonville go back two years. Customer service complaints from about 50,000 customers out of 200,000 charging customers for services they did not order, and taking forever to finish the broadband rewiring.

The City of Jacksonville finally got a back bone in Sept. and told AT&T that they will not renew the company's franchise because AT&T would not resolve the numerous issues that the city had with them. The city and AT&T reps sat down numerous times this summer to try and work out a deal to resolves the issues but no resolution could be reached. Now that the city is revoking the franchise AT&T wants to take them court and the city is preparing for that fight.

A couple of weeks ago when the city announced that it would revoke the cable franchise of AT&T, DTV announced that it would be offering LIL in Jax. That week one of the local stations spoke with a large company here that sells DTV and the owner of the company sais that since the summer of 2001 his company has recieved 50,000 calls from people who wanted to sign up for DTV but shied away because of no LIL. Now, lets consider how many will be signing up with DTV after everything that has went down in the past couple of weeks with AT&T and the City of Jacksonville and the announce that DTV will offer LIL.

AT&T customers and non AT&T customers in the Jax area knows what AT&T has been doing over the past two years because it has been played out in the media with city officials and AT&T officials having a war of words through the cameras and newspapers. One note, Jax only has one cable carrier because the city wanted to create a monoply starting with Continential Cable in the early 80's. I wonder why the other counties in the metro area can have cable competition but we cannot!!!!!

I don't care about cable anyway because I have DTV but the city deserves what it is getting for giving AT&T to much slack. By the way sat penetration in Jax is 25% and it should be rising because no one wants to be in the middle of a fight between the city and AT&T.

[David G]

Any info on Hampton Roads, VA area. (Southeast VA - Norfolk, Virginia Beach.) D* has it, but I have E*.

[Darkman]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Las Vagas, NV (52 largest Market)

Chico, CA (132 largest Market)

Buffalo, NY (44 largest Market)

Tyler, TX (109 largest Market)

Des Moines, IA (72 largest Market)

Jacksonville, FL (51 largest Market)

Anchorage, AK (156 largest Market)

Colorado Springs, CO (94 largest Market)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

even though Buffalo, NY is "not yet available to mere mortals", I was just informed that Buffalo, NY locals "the full power stations are uplinked now" to the 9100s range of channels. Eventually they will be made available for the Subscribers.