Why MPEG4 now instead of later..??

[ClubSteeler]

I understand that it is a big advantage in terms of bandwidth...

However, D* is going to alienate their MANY subscribers without MPEG4 boxes. They just launched a new sat, they are greatly increasing bandwidth. They should be able to provide every HD channel in full 19.4Mbps MPEG2, so why not?

Now lets look 5 years in the future when there are a lot more HD channels, and we've had 5 years of people getting new MPEG4 boxes, and there are very few MPEG2 boxes out there... now it makes sense.

But to rush MPEG4 "sooner than later" as Earl said... Is that going to force tens of thousands of people to buy (ahem pay to lease) new equipment? Will there be delays in getting the equipment due to the sudden surge in demand?

Just wondering what the plan was... Is it just one day they hit a switch and BAM!!! MPEG4!!!??

Will SD still be MPEG2??

I would think that it would be D*'s obligation to provide, free of charge, an MPEG4 box to every HD subscriber when they switch, ESPECIALLY considering that all of their equipment is now leased. IS that how they are handling it? Trade in for a new lease free of charge? What about the owned boxes?

Just curious.. Sounds like a mess...

[Teronzhul]

Since they're using different frequencies with the new satellites anyway, customers would still need ka-band receiving equipment. Rather than do a ka transistion now, and then an mpeg4 transition again later, it makes more sense to do both at once.

[P Smith]

Sure, they have plans to switch to MPEG-4 and DVB-S2, but the plans are internals and they don't obligate to disclose it.
They perfectly knows how many MPEG2-2 HD boxes registered in subscription's DB.
But again, they don't have the bandwidth on main three sats: 101W/110W/119W for your receivers and new sats will require not just MPEG-4 support, but new tuners with DVB-S2 chips.

[P Smith]

Since they're using different frequencies with the new satellites anyway, customers would still need ka-band receiving equipment. Rather than do a ka transistion now, and then an mpeg4 transition again later, it makes more sense to do both at once.
Ka band is not the issue for old receivers, I can show how to route those bands into regular box, but the DVB-S2 tuner chips not in your old box!

[davidrumm]

For 1 reason, the older HD receivers will not see the new satellite anyway and so why not change now. The new satellite is on a different frequency that the older receivers will not be able to see. Therefore building in the MPEG4 and new frequencies in the same new HD boxes this allows this extra HD without affecting the SD programming.

[veryoldschool]

I understand that it is a big advantage in terms of bandwidth...

However, D* is going to alienate their MANY subscribers without MPEG4 boxes. They just launched a new sat, they are greatly increasing bandwidth. They should be able to provide every HD channel in full 19.4Mbps MPEG2, so why not?

Now lets look 5 years in the future when there are a lot more HD channels, and we've had 5 years of people getting new MPEG4 boxes, and there are very few MPEG2 boxes out there... now it makes sense.

But to rush MPEG4 "sooner than later" as Earl said... Is that going to force tens of thousands of people to buy (ahem pay to lease) new equipment? Will there be delays in getting the equipment due to the sudden surge in demand?

Just wondering what the plan was... Is it just one day they hit a switch and BAM!!! MPEG4!!!??

Will SD still be MPEG2??

I would think that it would be D*'s obligation to provide, free of charge, an MPEG4 box to every HD subscriber when they switch, ESPECIALLY considering that all of their equipment is now leased. IS that how they are handling it? Trade in for a new lease free of charge? What about the owned boxes?

Just curious.. Sounds like a mess...
What you're describing is when D* would stop MPEG-2 programing.
Somewhere MPEG-4 needs to start. This happened over a year ago, with the first round of SATs in the 99 & 103 slots. If you wanted the programing from there, you upgraded. This didn't stop those that don't want to upgrade, since their programing is still where it always has been.
More HD from more SATs. Well if you want it, you need to upgrade.
At some point D* may [will] stop MPEG-2 and then giving away MPEG-4 boxes does seem like the way to go.

[PoitNarf]

How much "later" is acceptable? You'll always have some subscribers that aren't going to be happy about having to get new equipment. I say deal with it like taking off a band-aid, one quick motion.

[BudShark]

Club -

Just think of this. 2+ years ago Dish Network took a very aggressive MPEG4 stance, and started pushing it a little over a year ago. Even to the point of flagging MPEG2 broadcasts as MPEG4 to force people to the MPEG4.

Everyone screamed, moaned, complained. Some even switched.

Do you hear anyone on the Dish side complaining now as they add more and more HD channels? This is made possible by an aggressive move in the past.

IF DirecTV continued to hold on to MPEG2 - people with Hughes boxes, HDTivos, etc would have no reason to move. You COULD wait for those boxes to die over time - but what happens when you do need/want the bandwidth? What about moving the MPEG2s off the old sats?

In the end, you have to walk away from a dying technology. Not that I am a MAC man (I'm not), or a Dish man (I'm not), but lets do some analogies here:

Microsoft = Old and Bloated software (perception). Try to maintain compatibility as far back as possible (strategy).
Apple = Fresh, fast, stable (perception) Every couple years walks away from the old, embraces the new with little compability (strategy).

You are asking DirecTV to be Microsoft - hold on to the old. Stay compatible. Don't advance. For the past 2 years this has caused them to look slow, lumbering, lazy, and old. Let DirecTV be the Apple - don't let Dish have that. Let DirecTV move forward. You'll enjoy it - I promise. ;)

Chris

[wilbur_the_goose]

ClubSteeler, remember - DirecTV once transmitted in MPEG-1...

[Earl Bonovich]

I understand that it is a big advantage in terms of bandwidth...

However, D* is going to alienate their MANY subscribers without MPEG4 boxes. They just launched a new sat, they are greatly increasing bandwidth. They should be able to provide every HD channel in full 19.4Mbps MPEG2, so why not?

Now lets look 5 years in the future when there are a lot more HD channels, and we've had 5 years of people getting new MPEG4 boxes, and there are very few MPEG2 boxes out there... now it makes sense.

But to rush MPEG4 "sooner than later" as Earl said... Is that going to force tens of thousands of people to buy (ahem pay to lease) new equipment? Will there be delays in getting the equipment due to the sudden surge in demand?

Just wondering what the plan was... Is it just one day they hit a switch and BAM!!! MPEG4!!!??

Will SD still be MPEG2??

I would think that it would be D*'s obligation to provide, free of charge, an MPEG4 box to every HD subscriber when they switch, ESPECIALLY considering that all of their equipment is now leased. IS that how they are handling it? Trade in for a new lease free of charge? What about the owned boxes?

Just curious.. Sounds like a mess...

And this isn't a "new" BAM!!! announcement.
This is something that has been planned for, talked about, and accounted for, for over 2.5 years already.

(Here is one of the oldest discussions I found about it:
http://www.highdefforum.com/archive/index.php/t-4417.html )

This isn't secret. Soon after, they stopped selling all non-MPEG-4 capable equipment.

They have already been pro-actively swapping out equipment.

Yes... there is going to be shortages and high demand... hence why since about the begining of the year, they have been actively talking about the MPEG-4 transistions.

The phone calls about BBC's...
Their website, that describes what you will need:
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4310204
The test channel 499

Bottom of advertisements stating what receivers will be needed to access the new content.

If you go back and read the history... there are of people are in fact getting the MPEG-4 equipment, (as replacement to their MPEG-2's) for free..... but it is not the standard yet, until they start to remove the MPEG-2 HD content.

SD-MPEG2 is not going anywhere anytime soon.
As that would mean the replacement of nearly 40,000,000 receivers...


Also since the MPEG-2 HD's are not converting right away... the "desire" to have the new MPEG-4 content, is going to take a MAJOR chunk out of the "must convert" people prior to any deadline.

This "time" has been 5 years in the making, 2+ years in active process...
It is just now into it final phases, and when you reach the end.... those "drop dead dates" that where planned 2 years ago... are now with insight.

I mean they "could" do it like IPv6.... what is it something like 100years before they shut off IPv4 ?
Or the entire Digital transmission.... that has been extended and extended and extended to the point that another extension is just going to cause more problems then good....
There has to be a "time" when old is just that old...

Or they could go the Cingular/AT&T route... start charging an extra fee for those that want to use older technology....

[bidger]

Yeah, it's hard to believe that a DIRECTV HD sub would have been blindsided by this, let alone not be going, "Gimme, gimme, gimme!!!" as far as it pertains to new HD. I can understand how a D-TiVo die hard would be put out and have decisions to make, but an HD and/or Sports enthusiast...how can they not be thrilled?!

When it comes to HD, slow and steady won't win the race. DIRECTV knew that Dish Network had more HD and had to try to do something about it, and stage 1 is in the final stages, we just have to hold on until September. Wheeee!

Last Fall when DIRECTV offered a free HR10 to me as a ST sub, I was grateful, but said, "I'd like an HR20 instead" because I knew where the future stood. It's hard to believe a guy with the user name "Club Steeler" can't swing a similar deal.

[ClubSteeler]

You all make some good points..

So let's say, "No time like the present.."

Now I would think that if the time is now, all of you with leased boxes would be opening up your mail to find a new leased box. I mean for all of you, who read forums like this, this is all old news. However, the majority of subscribers out there probably can't spell MPEG.

It just seems to me like if it really is "sooner than later", the customer base would be ready. They are not. So this makes me think that it is either "much later", or the old "pull the switch and try to prevent riots in the streets" approach... :)

They enjoyed the immense financial benefits of leased equipment. Now it's time for the dark side of leasing equipment... expansion/upgrades/maintenance ...

I just really hope they don't just pull the switch and tell everyone to run to Circuit City and spend more money. I see a lot of threads on here saying "should I buy a MPEG4 box now?" My answer is NO.. You should NEVER buy an MPEG4 box, one should be provided to you if your current box is leased.

Agree?

[Earl Bonovich]

Hence why DirecTV has been VERY proactive with automated systems...
Calling customers to make sure their equipment was up to date.

IMHO: The vast majority of people that have older MPEG-2 HD equipment are people that have been on the bleading edge for a lot of this stuff.

So most of them read the magazines and the articles about that stuff (or have people that advise them)....

So DirecTV KNOWS there are people out there that won't find out there was a change, until the day it is cut off...

But I am gathering that the press, advertising, ect... about X,Y,Z channel now available in HD.... and they can't get them, is going to prompt a lot of those people to call... find out why, and get updated...

[BudShark]

You all make some good points..

So let's say, "No time like the present.."

Now I would think that if the time is now, all of you with leased boxes would be opening up your mail to find a new leased box. I mean for all of you, who read forums like this, this is all old news. However, the majority of subscribers out there probably can't spell MPEG.

It just seems to me like if it really is "sooner than later", the customer base would be ready. They are not. So this makes me think that it is either "much later", or the old "pull the switch and try to prevent riots in the streets"... :)

I disagree. Early adopters is about all that have MPEG2 HD boxes. Joe Public really started jumping on board in the last 18-24 months - which means they have a leased MPEG4 box already. Dish lived through this - I'm sure DirecTV will as well. It ain't like this is uncharted waters as you might lead some to believe.

Chris

[bidger]

However, the majority of subscribers out there probably can't spell MPEG.

I've asked people who told me they have satellite which provider they have and I'd get the response, "DIRECTV", and I'd find after further questioning they were actually Dish Network customers. These were folks who were SD customers.

HD consumers are typically a different breed, more knowledgeable, demanding, and lucrative to the service providers, and in turn usually more informed than a typical sub.

[ClubSteeler]

So let's get to the answer for the main question I have...

Someday.... my leased MPEG2 HD box will be obsoleted at no fault of my own. Being a lease, I will receive, from DirecTV, an MPEG4 replacement, also leased, to replace the old MPEG2 box, which I will return to DirecTV, at no cost to me, with the possible exception of shipping..

Correct?

[P Smith]

Absolutly !

[DocBM]

Sure, just like Lexus gives me a new car(for free) after my lease expires ever 36 months.

The money you pay for a new box is, in my eyes a downpayment on the lease, and allows the monthly rate to be $4.99.

So let's get to the answer for the main question I have...

Someday.... my leased MPEG2 HD box will be obsoleted at no fault of my own. Being a lease, I will receive, from DirecTV, an MPEG4 replacement, also leased, to replace the old MPEG2 box, which I will return to DirecTV, at no cost to me, with the possible exception of shipping..

Correct?

[Earl Bonovich]

So let's get to the answer for the main question I have...

Someday.... my leased MPEG2 HD box will be obsoleted at no fault of my own. Being a lease, I will receive, from DirecTV, an MPEG4 replacement, also leased, to replace the old MPEG2 box, which I will return to DirecTV, at no cost to me, with the possible exception of shipping..

Correct?

First... the word "obsoleted" is really not correct.
"Depriciated" is more accurate, as it will still work for OTA and MPEG-2 SD recordings.

With the exception of the HR10-250... there should be NO Leased HD/Non-MPEG4 boxes out there... if so, then it was a used equipment activation or something else happened.


All indications are that the old equipment doesn't have to be returned...
And at the "cut-off date", yes, I would expect that the upgrades will be free, (including possible shipping).

But up till the "cut-off-date", I would expect that some upgrades will possible cost customers.

[P Smith]

Wrong analogy ! Make up something else close to using service.

[mcbeevee]

So let's get to the answer for the main question I have...

Someday.... my leased MPEG2 HD box will be obsoleted at no fault of my own. Being a lease, I will receive, from DirecTV, an MPEG4 replacement, also leased, to replace the old MPEG2 box, which I will return to DirecTV, at no cost to me, with the possible exception of shipping..

Correct?

If you want an owned mpeg2 HD box to hang on to, I've got an old H10 in the closet I can mail to you...just send me the shipping cost! :)

[DocBM]

What service am I leasing?

Wrong analogy ! Make up something else close to using service.

[P Smith]

It was long debate here a year ago or so, I don't want to repeat same arguments again and again. You just join the site - take your half way - find and read that discussion.

[leww37334]

Club -

Just think of this. 2+ years ago Dish Network took a very aggressive MPEG4 stance, and started pushing it a little over a year ago. Even to the point of flagging MPEG2 broadcasts as MPEG4 to force people to the MPEG4.

Everyone screamed, moaned, complained. Some even switched.

Do you hear anyone on the Dish side complaining now as they add more and more HD channels? This is made possible by an aggressive move in the past.

IF DirecTV continued to hold on to MPEG2 - people with Hughes boxes, HDTivos, etc would have no reason to move. You COULD wait for those boxes to die over time - but what happens when you do need/want the bandwidth? What about moving the MPEG2s off the old sats?

In the end, you have to walk away from a dying technology. Not that I am a MAC man (I'm not), or a Dish man (I'm not), but lets do some analogies here:

Microsoft = Old and Bloated software (perception). Try to maintain compatibility as far back as possible (strategy).
Apple = Fresh, fast, stable (perception) Every couple years walks away from the old, embraces the new with little compability (strategy).

You are asking DirecTV to be Microsoft - hold on to the old. Stay compatible. Don't advance. For the past 2 years this has caused them to look slow, lumbering, lazy, and old. Let DirecTV be the Apple - don't let Dish have that. Let DirecTV move forward. You'll enjoy it - I promise. ;)

Chris

The Microsoft versus Apple analogy is a good example of what advertising can do for you, MS was founded and 1975 (old and bloated) Apple was founded in 1976 (young and hip)

[thumperr]

So let's get to the answer for the main question I have...

Someday.... my leased MPEG2 HD box will be obsoleted at no fault of my own. Being a lease, I will receive, from DirecTV, an MPEG4 replacement, also leased, to replace the old MPEG2 box, which I will return to DirecTV, at no cost to me, with the possible exception of shipping..

Correct?

I bet there is also be a commitment you'll have to agree to.

[Christopher Gould]

they updated/upgrated those of us with 72.5 locals for free when are boxes weren't compatable. keep that in mind. all u had to do was call and ask.