Will these trees get in the way?

[jzinckgra]

So I got an install date this Sunday for E*. I went back and forth between D* and E* and it looks like E* offers local HD channels in my area (01566). My main concern is a line of trees , as seen in the pic. The treeline basically covers ~215-250 degrees from left to right. I am actually standing on my shed roof, which is 9 ft high. With another 6 ft pole or so ( I am 6'2" when I took the pic), this is what the installer would have as my "clear view of the southern sky". Not the greatest, but other guys on D* threads think this may work. At ~22-25 degees tilt, I am shooting through the very tops of the trees, not above them. I know they will probably grow more, but I don't think we'll be living here that long. (maybe 2 more years)

I figure if I can get decent reception for both sats ( I need the extra for locals), he still probably won't install cause I have to dig a trench to bury the cable 1st. Figured I would run this inside PVC pipe across to the house (~25ft). But, I am not about to dig a trench 1st then find out I get no sat. signal. You guys think I am going to get the proper reception with the trees? I really can't cut them. For locals, I will need to "hit" sat 61.5 (Boston DMA). For all others I guess it would be 110, 119 and the others.

But now I hear when E* goes to mpeg4, the new sats may be require a totally different direction for the dish to point. I am surrounded by trees and the southern direction is about as wide open as I have. Any other direction would be out of the question. So what will happen when E* goes mpeg4?
Also, if the guy is willing to install on my shed roof, should I request him to bring a tripod mount? Is that even included or should I buy my own?
One final question: I opted to pay the $49 activation fee, which negates me from having to commit to an 18 month contract. I didn't read the fineprint yet, so I am a bit skeptical that I could cancel at anytime without a penalty fee. can someone clarify this?
Thanks for all your help.

[Supershooters]

It looks like it's fine to me. An inclinometer would tell you for sure. ...and I wouldn't worry about the mpeg4 thing.

[jzinckgra]

What about the trench. Do the install guys insist on an 18" deep trough? I know it probably varies by state, but I would think 8" would be deep enough.

[Jason Nipp]

Remember, that the actual focal point (LOS-Line of Sight) of a DBS dish is about 30 degrees higher than where the LNBF is pointed.

[jzinckgra]

Remember, that the actual focal point (LOS-Line of Sight) of a DBS dish is about 30 degrees higher than where the LNBF is pointed.
So if they say that the tilt for my area is ~22-25 degrees, then it is actually 52-55 degrees? What is the LNBF? Sorry, new to this sat stuff.

[patmurphey]

You don't necessarily have to worry about a ditch. I had no problem with an aerial wire from a dish on my garage to my house about 75' away. Standard installation allows up to 200' of wire.

[aim2pls]

So if they say that the tilt for my area is ~22-25 degrees, then it is actually 52-55 degrees? What is the LNBF? Sorry, new to this sat stuff.


you 119 elevation is 22 degrees tilt is in the mid 50's

[isuzudave]

What about the trench. Do the install guys insist on an 18" deep trough? I know it probably varies by state, but I would think 8" would be deep enough.

In some places there is no code for low voltage wiring. You could just lay it on the ground, run it through the air, or bury it a few inches. They make special coax that can be buried without a conduit.

[lpmiller]

any reason you are not just doing it from the roof of the house? That would be high enough.

Dish dug my trench for me.

[jzinckgra]

any reason you are not just doing it from the roof of the house? That would be high enough.

Dish dug my trench for me.

First, I don't think the guy would climb our roof. Pretty steep pitch. Even if he did, what if some snow or ice gets in it this winter? it'll be a pain to have to deal with any problems. i won't climb that roof:lol: I also think the picture may be deceiving, as I am not sure there would be enough clearance above the trees if roo mounted. I figured the farther back, like on the shed roof would be better.

I am hesitant to dig a ditch and buy some pvc until the install guy is sure we can get a signal. After he hooks it all up, would it be possible for me to disconnect the wires coming from the dish so I can snake them through some pvc later in the week? I don't want to have to reschedule so he can come back to finish it off. Maybe I should just buy the 30ft or so of pvc and have it ready.

[Highdef Jeff]

you 119 elevation is 22 degrees tilt is in the mid 50's
The offset LNB of the reflector dishes used for satellite, account for the "bounce" of the reflected signal.
When you are given an elevation for a satellite or dish, that is where the satellite is.
When simply looking at a dish, the satellites would appear "higher" than where the "reflector" of the dish is pointing, if you could see them.
If your elevation for the satellites is 22 - 25 degrees, that's where they are. The dish design accounts for the offset of the dish so that when you set elevation by the scale on the dish, the dish is set to receive signals from that elevation.
Happy HD Hunting!
Highdef Jeff

[flatus]

I used standard rg6 buried 3 inches down for several years with no problems.

If you are only be there for a year or two, that should do it. If you end up staying longer, you have a couple years before you have to start digging :)

[jzinckgra]

Well, E* install guy came this morning. Real nice guy, knowledgeable, been doing it for 12 years, etc. Unfortunately, my idea of putting both dishes on my shed won't work. It'll work for getting the signal from the 61.5 satellite, but not the 119, which if you look at my pic, is shooting through the V shaped notch of the trees on the far right side of the pic. So that would mean, putting the other dish on the backside of my driveway, about 12 ft back into the woods,on a pole cemented into the ground. The problem here is that he said I'd need to cut several small trees and some branches as high as 25 ft along the driveway to clear the viewing angle. So it's more of a problem with the trees directly in front of where the dish needs to be. I wasn't too thrilled about this, but told him I'd have to discuss it with my wife. He said climbing my roof was no problem (he likes heights), but putting it on the roof wouldn't clear the trees in the pic, since the house sits closer to those trees, therefore I lose a lot of the angle necessary for reception. Bummer.
He did mention that D*'s satellites sit higher in the sky for the 119 or 110 (33 degrees vs 22 for E*'s), so of course I start thinking about giving them a call and see what they say, but they apparently don't offer local HD channels for my zip.
So he rambled on about how great the PQ for HD channels was with E*. So I bring him into the house and show him the Today show in HD through Charter and he was quite surprised, almost admitting through his reaction that E* wasn't going to be as good.
So after all of this he rescheduled for 2 weeks, assuming I clear a bunch of branches and trees and assures me that I will get good reception. I already talked to my wife and I am really on the fence at this point. I'd hate to do all this work (tree cutting, digging a trench, etc) and have him do all this work to find out that the PQ isn't as good as cable, even knowing I'd be paying less per month. He says even if I cancel, I just have to return the received and I get to keep the dishes, which would be useless to me. He says the reason they leave the dishes if someone cancels is they hope if someone else were to move into that house, they may sign up for service, seeing as the dishes are already installed.
I may just give D* a call and be interested to see if they can get all channels on the 5lnb. If I could have just put both sats on the shed it would be a no brainer, but this other location is teetering on having it not be worth it. Plus I felt bad for the guy, since he makes no $$$ if he does not install.
Sorry for the ramble. Just thought I would pass along the story.

[Highdef Jeff]

#1. DirecTV's 110 and 119 are the same satellites as Dish Network. No different elevation. 101, 103, 105 satellites are just a couple degrees higher and to the left.
#2. DirecTV's quality is not as good.
#3. Good cable HD is comparable to Dish Network installed correctly-you wouldn't need to worry about HD quality of Dish.

[jzinckgra]

#1. DirecTV's 110 and 119 are the same satellites as Dish Network. No different elevation. 101, 103, 105 satellites are just a couple degrees higher and to the left.
#2. DirecTV's quality is not as good.
#3. Good cable HD is comparable to Dish Network installed correctly-you wouldn't need to worry about HD quality of Dish.


Regarding point 1: I 've read that most of D*'s 119 channels are not that important. Meaning there are only a few HD channels on there now (not interested in those anyways) and the rest are local channels, however I didn't see Boston's DMA listed. Anyone know which sat Boston locals are on? So, if I decided to try D* instead and didn't care about the 119 sat much, would that be doable? The problem with E*, as I found out this morning is that most of their programming is on 119, whereas D*'s isn't.

[Highdef Jeff]

They will be looking for clear line of sight over about a 20 degree span.

But, wait, if you're trying to get locals, Boston has an incredible number of digital and HDTV programming. Get an antenna for locals then wait till you move for Dish!!!

[jzinckgra]

They will be looking for clear line of sight over about a 20 degree span.

But, wait, if you're trying to get locals, Boston has an incredible number of digital and HDTV programming. Get an antenna for locals then wait till you move for Dish!!!

Trust me, I have been exploring the OTA route. I bought a CM4228 and 7777 preamp and have tried the attic install without luck. We have a pretty big hill and trees (statepark) facing that direction. The OTA option was a backup plan in case I couldn't get the locals from either D* or E*. I am still considering the rooftop option for the antenna.
Anyways, do you know which sat Boston DMA uses for D*? Thanks.

[Highdef Jeff]

Trust me, I have been exploring the OTA route. I bought a CM4228 and 7777 preamp and have tried the attic install without luck. We have a pretty big hill and trees (statepark) facing that direction. The OTA option was a backup plan in case I couldn't get the locals from either D* or E*. I am still considering the rooftop option for the antenna.
Anyways, do you know which sat Boston DMA uses for D*? Thanks.

Sorry, I don't know. Am very surprised that your CM4228 didn't work!

[jzinckgra]

Sorry, I don't know. Am very surprised that your CM4228 didn't work!

Well, it may have something to do with the lousy tuner in my TV. I've been reading a lot about the poor quality of earlier panny tuners. I have the 42px50U plasma and this model does not have a good tuner. So I may wait and see if the D* receiver works any better or try the Samsung 260F HD Rx. I've heard good things about that one.

[Jim5506]

Attic installs generally cut your usable signal in half or more. Mount your antenna outside as high as possible.