Zinwell Question

[trumpetdude]

I have just installed a slimeline dish and Zinwell WB68. currently waiting for D to get me the HR20.

2 questions:

1] since the update I have noticed that when I switch to my current HD channels I get a brief 721 error message before the channel locks in. would this be improved if I used a Sonora HRPID1422? My signal on all satellites is stronger then it was on my 3lnb setup. I was using a powered multi switch in my old setup.

2] Can I use my old powered multi switch with the zinwell if i take 4 outputs from the Zinwell to the old multi switch to my old receivers? I know the Zinwell must be the first after the satellite.

[HDTVsportsfan]

Welcome Aboard.

Question #2.

You can, but you will be limited to MPEG2 feeds and will not be able to receive HD locals any of the new HD channels in Sept. for any of the receivers coming from the old switch.

[trumpetdude]

Welcome Aboard.

Question #2.

You can, but you will be limited to MPEG2 feeds and will not be able to receive HD locals any of the new HD channels in Sept. for any of the receivers coming from the old switch.

Thanks I was going to leave the 4 remaining ports on the WB68 for the new receiver for the mpg4 channels, and let the old multiswitch feed my old receivers which need diplexers, I did not want to damage the wb68 i thought I saw something on this but I was unable to find it.

[carl6]

No problem cascading a powered multiswitch off the WB68. I've done it and it works just fine.

Another option that might even be better is to parallel the two multiswitches using wide-band splitters. If they are single port power passing splitters, put the powered multiswtich on the power passing port. If both multiswitches are non-powered, then you must have dual port power passing splitters.

Carl

[THX]

Regarding the Zinwell WB68 how is it able to power 8 ports without being powered?

[HDTVsportsfan]

Well....I should probably stay away from this one...but if I understand it correctly the receivers provide the power to there perspective output (from WB68).

Little help please.

[Rich]

Well....I should probably stay away from this one...but if I understand it correctly the receivers provide the power to there perspective output (from WB68).

Little here please.

That's my understanding too.

I just had my WB68 replaced with the 16 port model and that has to be powered.

[Smuuth]

The DC power does not go to the outputs. The DC power travels from the receivers up to the dish through the multiswitch so it knows which satellite the receiver is looking for.

[HDTVsportsfan]

Thanks for the clarification. I did word that wrong. The receiver provides the power, and passes thru the the Zinwell to get to the LNB's. I mean the power from the receiver has to get to the LNB's and the only for that to happen is the path from the output it is connected too.
Did that come out right?

[Rich]

No problem cascading a powered multiswitch off the WB68. I've done it and it works just fine.

Another option that might even be better is to parallel the two multiswitches using wide-band splitters. If they are single port power passing splitters, put the powered multiswtich on the power passing port. If both multiswitches are non-powered, then you must have dual port power passing splitters.

Carl

I was wondering about that. When I got my 5LNB dish, I kept my 2LNB dish for my TiVos. So, I could just transfer the two outputs wires from my small dish to my big Zinny output ports? I have splitters on the TiVo line, four of them, would that cause a problem?

[carl6]

You can feed your DirecTivo DVRs off the 5-LNB and the WB68 - no problem with that.

As to using splitters, you can NOT use splitters between the dish and the receivers.

You can use splitters between the dish and two (or more) multiswitches providing ALL leads are split and all splitter outputs go to the same input port on each multiswitch (13V to 13V, 18V to 18V, etc.).

You can NOT use splitters between the multiswitch and the receiver.

You can use splitters on the channel 3/4 rf output of a receiver to feed multiple TV sets.

I'm not sure how you are using the splitters you reference. Hope I answered your question.

Carl

[dabsabre]

That's my understanding too.

I just had my WB68 replaced with the 16 port model and that has to be powered.

we're having to go with the 6x16 switch as well since we already have 3 dual tuners and a single tuner receiver. I've already had the installer show up without the dish the first time, and then without the necessary switch the second time so I'm curious about the need for the 16 port model needing to be powered. Right now the switch is installed on the side of the house. Are you saying I'll need some way to run a power source to this switch?

[HDTVsportsfan]

Yes.......you will need to get access to power for the switch.



http://www.2000networks.com/accessories/switches/multi-switch_zinwell_wb616_6x16.html

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=WB616

Or figure out a way to use two WB68's.

[trumpetdude]

thanks for all the help

[Thaedron]

If I might take the thread on a slight tangent, since the prior discussion seems to have wrapped up...

Does it matter which inputs on the multi-switch go to which ouputs from the 5lnb dish?

My installer had it on his workorder that I needed a WB68 multi-switch, which I didn't at the moment so he left it, but didn't hook it up. Yes, I know, I should have made him hook it up, but he was late, I needed to get going.... That's history. I just need to know if I can hook up the 4 wires coming from the dish in any order, or if they need to be run back to specific LNBs? (I'm guessing the latter since there are sat 99/101 and sat 103/110/119 markings on the multiswitch)

[HDTVsportsfan]

It does not matter. Just don't cross thread the connector and make sure there are tight.

[Rich]

You can feed your DirecTivo DVRs off the 5-LNB and the WB68 - no problem with that.

As to using splitters, you can NOT use splitters between the dish and the receivers.

You can use splitters between the dish and two (or more) multi switches providing ALL leads are split and all splitter outputs go to the same input port on each multiswitch (13V to 13V, 18V to 18V, etc.).

You can NOT use splitters between the multiswitch and the receiver.

You can use splitters on the channel 3/4 rf output of a receiver to feed multiple TV sets.

I'm not sure how you are using the splitters you reference. Hope I answered your question.

Carl

That's how I have it wired. Might as well leave the old dish with it's wiring as is. Thanx for the info.

Seems logical that you can feed a receiver off a splitter, but I have tried and failed. Need that multiswitch. Why is that?

Rich

[Rich]

we're having to go with the 6x16 switch as well since we already have 3 dual tuners and a single tuner receiver. I've already had the installer show up without the dish the first time, and then without the necessary switch the second time so I'm curious about the need for the 16 port model needing to be powered. Right now the switch is installed on the side of the house. Are you saying I'll need some way to run a power source to this switch?

The 16 port multi switch is powered by a rather strange arrangement. A transformer is plugged into a 120 VAC plug and the transformer has a male coax on it that you attach to a coaxial cable and run that to the power port on the multi switch. Odd, but it works perfectly.

[Rich]

Yes.......you will need to get access to power for the switch.



http://www.2000networks.com/accessories/switches/multi-switch_zinwell_wb616_6x16.html

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=WB616

Or figure out a way to use two WB68's.

My Cuban installer (bless his soul) assured me that you can use two WB68s. Didn't ask him how. Everything else he told me was correct, so...

[carl6]

Seems logical that you can feed a receiver off a splitter, but I have tried and failed. Need that multiswitch. Why is that?

Rich

The coax is a 2-way communication link. The receiver sends a signal to the dish asking for a certain block or group of channels. The dish then sends the appropriate block that the requested channel is in back to the receiver.

There are four possible sets of request. 13 volts with no tone, 18 volts with no tone, 13 volts with a 22KHz tone, 18 volts with a 22KHz tone.

If you use a splitter, and the two receivers send different requests, only one of them will be satisfied. For example, if receiver A sends a 13 volt request and receiver B sends an 18 volt request - and those are combined through a splitter, only the 18 volt signal will be seen by the dish, and hence only the applicable group of channels will be sent back. The receiver sending the 13 volt signal will end up "searching for satellite signal" because it is not getting the channel(s) it requested.

With a multi-satellite dish (3 LNB or 5 LNB) there are four connections on the dish. All four must be connected to the multiswitch, so that all four possible groups or blocks of channels are available at the input to the multiswitch at all times. That way, no matter what a connected receiver asks for, it is available and cross-connected by the multiswitch.

Carl

[Nachosgrande]

The coax is a 2-way communication link. The receiver sends a signal to the dish asking for a certain block or group of channels. The dish then sends the appropriate block that the requested channel is in back to the receiver.

There are four possible sets of request. 13 volts with no tone, 18 volts with no tone, 13 volts with a 22KHz tone, 18 volts with a 22KHz tone.

If you use a splitter, and the two receivers send different requests, only one of them will be satisfied. For example, if receiver A sends a 13 volt request and receiver B sends an 18 volt request - and those are combined through a splitter, only the 18 volt signal will be seen by the dish, and hence only the applicable group of channels will be sent back. The receiver sending the 13 volt signal will end up "searching for satellite signal" because it is not getting the channel(s) it requested.

With a multi-satellite dish (3 LNB or 5 LNB) there are four connections on the dish. All four must be connected to the multiswitch, so that all four possible groups or blocks of channels are available at the input to the multiswitch at all times. That way, no matter what a connected receiver asks for, it is available and cross-connected by the multiswitch.

Carl

Question - if the 5 LNB has 4 connections why does the WB616 have 6 connections going into it? What are the other 2 for?

[Michael D'Angelo]

Question - if the 5 LNB has 4 connections why does the WB616 have 6 connections going into it? What are the other 2 for?

The other 2 are flex ports for SAT's 72.5 and 95.

[Thaedron]

It does not matter. Just don't cross thread the connector and make sure there are tight.

Thanks!

As a follow-up, can the multi-switch be grounded / serve the function of a grounding block?

Today I have:
Dish - RG6 - grounding block - RG6 - receiver

There is some (marginal) signal loss in each connection, thus the question if the WB68 can serve as the grounding block
Dish - RG6 - WB68 (grounding block) - RG6 - receiver

OR if the grounding block needs to remain
Dish - RG6 - grounding block - RG6 - WB68 - RG6 - receiver

[HDTVFanAtic]

I have just installed a slimeline dish and Zinwell WB68. currently waiting for D to get me the HR20.

2 questions:

1] since the update I have noticed that when I switch to my current HD channels I get a brief 721 error message before the channel locks in.


You have another problem then - I have used WB68s in various configurations and never seen an issue. In fact, the signal is actually slightly better with the WB68 than without it. I get 92s without the WB68s and 100s with the WB68.

[Thaedron]

Ok, my longer rambling a couple posts up didn't generate anything, how about...

Can the WB68 serve as a grounding block (via the screws on one or more corners), or do I need to leave the grounding blocks inline when I install the WB68? Thanks,

[HDTVsportsfan]

Ok, my longer rambling a couple posts up didn't generate anything, how about...

Can the WB68 serve as a grounding block (via the screws on one or more corners), or do I need to leave the grounding blocks inline when I install the WB68? Thanks,

OK Thaedron....you busted me. I did drag my feet on this one a bit hoping someone else more knowledgable about grounding came along. :)

I do not believe the Zinewll should/would be considered the grounding block. I think you should run the 4 cables from the dish thru a grounding block and then ground the Zinwell seperatley. The codes change from locality to locality. I could be wrong, so please wait for confirmation or check w/ code compliance for your county/city.

Good luck.

[HDTVFanAtic]

You can use a multiswitch as a grounding block - BUT, it must have a proper ground run to it - not the ground in the IRD unless you want to discharge the electrical current through your IRD:nono2:

[Matthew]

Quick newbie question:

I was told by a D* tech cr that I did not need a Zinwell as long as I had the b band converters connected. I only have one tv connected to the whole sha-bang so I'm confused. Do I need one or not? I did tell him that I have heard that I would need one to receive the new upcoming channels however he said I did not. Comments/help?

[Michael D'Angelo]

Quick newbie question:

I was told by a tech cr that I did not need a Zinwell as long as I had the b band converters connected. I only have one tv connected to the whole sha-bang so I'm confused. Do I need one or not? I did tell him that I have heard that I would need one to receive the new upcoming channels however he said I did not. Comments/help?

:welcome_s to DBStalk

You only need one and DIRECTV will only supply one for free if you need more then 4 SAT lines.

[Matthew]

Thanks for the quick reply. So, I will still need to get one even though I only have one tv connect to the dvr to get the new channels? (sorry to seem daft, it's been a long day)

[Michael D'Angelo]

Thanks for the quick reply. So, I will still need to get one even though I only have one tv connect to the dvr to get the new channels? (sorry to seem daft, it's been a long day)

No. The Zinwell WB68 is only for if you need more then 4 SAT lines. You have 4 from the dish. So since you only have a DVR you will have 2 lines from the dish to the DVR without a Zinwell WB68. You will need to connect a BBC between the SAT lines and the DVR.

[Matthew]

Thanks! That's already been done. Now for more channels!!!!

[Tubaman-Z]

With my current DirecTiVos I have a 4x8 multiswitch that also has an OTA input that gets multiplexed onto the outputs. Then if I want OTA I use a diplexer (?) to split the satellite from OTA signals. I'm excited about adding an HR20 to my mix, for one reason the ability to receive and record HD OTA. I will still have at least 2 of my DirecTiVos in use. What are the options with the Zinwell 6x8 Multi-Switch WB68 in terms of mixing OTA onto the RG6?

Thanks.

[Milominderbinder2]

What are the options with the Zinwell 6x8 Multi-Switch WB68 in terms of mixing OTA onto the RG6?
None. You cannot diplex OTA into the HR20 or H20/H21 because the new Ka band satellite signals will be on the same frequencies as OTA.

Later this year, the new SWM solution will allow you to have satellite signals on the same cable as OTA. Regardless, the best solution is to have OTA be on it's own cable. Diplexers are bad. (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87891&highlight=diplexer)

- Craig

[Rich]

The coax is a 2-way communication link. The receiver sends a signal to the dish asking for a certain block or group of channels. The dish then sends the appropriate block that the requested channel is in back to the receiver.

There are four possible sets of request. 13 volts with no tone, 18 volts with no tone, 13 volts with a 22KHz tone, 18 volts with a 22KHz tone.

If you use a splitter, and the two receivers send different requests, only one of them will be satisfied. For example, if receiver A sends a 13 volt request and receiver B sends an 18 volt request - and those are combined through a splitter, only the 18 volt signal will be seen by the dish, and hence only the applicable group of channels will be sent back. The receiver sending the 13 volt signal will end up "searching for satellite signal" because it is not getting the channel(s) it requested.

With a multi-satellite dish (3 LNB or 5 LNB) there are four connections on the dish. All four must be connected to the multiswitch, so that all four possible groups or blocks of channels are available at the input to the multiswitch at all times. That way, no matter what a connected receiver asks for, it is available and cross-connected by the multiswitch.

Carl

Thanx, good explanation! :hurah:

[Bofurley]

My HR20 is scheduled to be installed on Friday 8/17. My question is on checking my order on the internet, there is no notation about needing the Zinwell WB 68 multiswitch. Should I call DTV about this? The order detail shows:
HR20 and 6-lnb multi-satellite dish. I also informed the CSR that I would need a pole install which is also not on the order!
Thanks to all for any help.
bofurley

[Michael D'Angelo]

My HR20 is scheduled to be installed on Friday 8/17. My question is on checking my order on the internet, there is no notation about needing the Zinwell WB 68 multiswitch. Should I call DTV about this? The order detail shows:
HR20 and 6-lnb multi-satellite dish. I also informed the CSR that I would need a pole install which is also not on the order!
Thanks to all for any help.
bofurley

If I remember right I don't think the WB68 shows up on your online order. But I would call to check to be sure though. Also when the installer first gets there question him about making sure he is going to install the WB68 and if he says no it is not on the work order call DIRECTV right away so they can get it worked out.

[Bofurley]

BMoreRavens,
Thank you for your reply.
bofurey

[d max82]

If I remember right I don't think the WB68 shows up on your online order.

I just checked my past orders and upcoming one online and it doesn't show the multiswitch either, even though I've recieved it in the past.

[micky76ag]

You only need one and DIRECTV will only supply one for free if you need more then 4 SAT lines.
I’m adding a HR20 in a few weeks. It will be the sixth dual tuner box in the house, so I need 12 outputs.

Should I expect the Zinwell WB616 6x16 switch to be provided for free by DirecTV?

[carl6]

They might provide a WB616, or they might use two WB68's in parallel. I would not let the installer get away with cascading one WB68 off another (which would provide 12 outputs).

Carl

[IjustWannaPlay]

They might provide a WB616, or they might use two WB68's in parallel. I would not let the installer get away with cascading one WB68 off another (which would provide 12 outputs).

Carl

First post....I am in a similar situation: considering an HR20 (upgrade from HR10) with other five DTivos. In looking at the spec sheet on the WB68, it states that it does not support cascading.

With my current multi-switches, it was not possible to use them in parrallel since each switch would only get two LNB feeds. So, is it possible to use two WB68 in parrallel?

If not, will DTV provide the WB616 at no cost?

Thx...Paul

[Michael D'Angelo]

First post....I am in a similar situation: considering an HR20 (upgrade from HR10) with other five DTivos. In looking at the spec sheet on the WB68, it states that it does not support cascading.

With my current multi-switches, it was not possible to use them in parrallel since each switch would only get two LNB feeds. So, is it possible to use two WB68 in parrallel?

If not, will DTV provide the WB616 at no cost?

Thx...Paul

:welcome_s to DBStalk

You can run 2 WB68's in a parallel setup. You need to get 4 dual power passing splitters that are 5 mhz to 2300 mhz. Look at the link in my signature. I have some pics of my setup. I now have a WB68 and a SWM8 (single wire multi-switch). But before I got the SWM8 there was another WB68 there.

[IjustWannaPlay]

:welcome_s to DBStalk

You can run 2 WB68's in a parallel setup. You need to get 4 dual power passing splitters that are 5 mhz to 2300 mhz. Look at the link in my signature. I have some pics of my setup. I now have a WB68 and a SWM8 (single wire multi-switch). But before I got the SWM8 there was another WB68 there.

Thanks for the welcome and quick response! GO Ravens!

So, will the installer come prepared with two WB68's and the correct splitters? Or do I need to somehow specify that in the order?

I just saw in one response that it is possible to cascade from the WB68 to one of my existing 5x8 switches. If so, is this a good approach or should I insist on two new switches installed in parrallel?

Thx..Paul

[Michael D'Angelo]

Thanks for the welcome and quick response! GO Ravens!

So, will the installer come prepared with two WB68's and the correct splitters? Or do I need to somehow specify that in the order?

I just saw in one response that it is possible to cascade from the WB68 to one of my existing 5x8 switches. If so, is this a good approach or should I insist on two new switches installed in parrallel?

Thx..Paul

Yes you are able to use a 5x8 and cascade it from a WB68. I prefer running them in a parallel setup but both will work. If you do want to do a parallel setup I would call and make sure DIRECTV knows that you need two of them. As far as the splitters go I believe you will have to buy them yourself. I don't think DIRECTV or the installer will supply them for you.

[IjustWannaPlay]

Yes you are able to use a 5x8 and cascade it from a WB68. I prefer running them in a parallel setup but both will work. If you do want to do a parallel setup I would call and make sure DIRECTV knows that you need two of them. As far as the splitters go I believe you will have to buy them yourself. I don't think DIRECTV or the installer will supply them for you.

I currently have two 5x8's being cascaded for 12 outputs. Can the WB68 just be placed "above" the current two switches and cascaded to the switch currently receiving the four LNB inputs? This would provide a total of 16 outputs with two extra WB68 outputs for later use.

I guess the question is.... can a WB68 cascade to a 5x8 (Eagle Aspen) which cascades to another 5x8 EA?

Thx...Paul

[Michael D'Angelo]

I guess the question is.... can a WB68 cascade to a 5x8 (Eagle Aspen) which cascades to another 5x8 EA?

Thx...Paul

That I don't know. If I had to guess I would say no.

[IjustWannaPlay]

What would be the best option for power passing splitters? What model and which internet store?

[Michael D'Angelo]

What would be the best option for power passing splitters? What model and which internet store?

Ebay and Solidsignal.com is two good places to look. If you look at my signature and the link in my signature you will see the ones that I am using.

[IjustWannaPlay]

I could not find the AT9 splitters at SolidSignal.

Recommend any of the ones being offered by SS? (Sorry, still can not post link)

[Michael D'Angelo]

I could not find the AT9 splitters at SolidSignal.

Recommend any of the ones being offered by SS? (Sorry, still can not post link)

I am not seeing any on solidsignal but these are the ones I got from Ebay. When I got mine he had 10 splitters for I think it was $18 with shipping. He does not have the 10 splitter auction up right now but I have seen him post the same 10 splitter auction a few times.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SKYWALKER-2-3-Ghz-2-WAY-CABLE-SPLITTER-HDTV-FREE-SHIP_W0QQitemZ180146782872QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14997 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[carl6]

I currently have two 5x8's being cascaded for 12 outputs. Can the WB68 just be placed "above" the current two switches and cascaded to the switch currently receiving the four LNB inputs? This would provide a total of 16 outputs with two extra WB68 outputs for later use.

I guess the question is.... can a WB68 cascade to a 5x8 (Eagle Aspen) which cascades to another 5x8 EA?

Thx...Paul

I think that it would work, however putting the WB68 and one of the 5x8's in parallel (giving 16 outputs) would be my preference unless you need more 5x8 outputs for diplexing.

Carl

[IjustWannaPlay]

So, would any of these at SS provide comparable performance?

http://www.solidsignal.com/cat_display.asp?main_cat=02&CAT=Splitters

Thx much...Paul

[IjustWannaPlay]

I am not seeing any on solidsignal but these are the ones I got from Ebay. When I got mine he had 10 splitters for I think it was $18 with shipping. He does not have the 10 splitter auction up right now but I have seen him post the same 10 splitter auction a few times.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SKYWALKER-2-3-Ghz-2-WAY-CABLE-SPLITTER-HDTV-FREE-SHIP_W0QQitemZ180146782872QQihZ008QQcategoryZ14997 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This Ebay seller only showed three in stock.

I did find the Ebay listing for the ten-pack. I presume these are the same.

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Skywalker-2-Way-Splitters-5-2300-MHz-DBS-DirecTV-RG6_W0QQitemZ140146877738QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39803Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thx again!! Paul

[Michael D'Angelo]

This Ebay seller only showed three in stock.

I did find the Ebay listing for the ten-pack. I presume these are the same.

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Skywalker-2-Way-Splitters-5-2300-MHz-DBS-DirecTV-RG6_W0QQitemZ140146877738QQihZ004QQcategoryZ39803Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thx again!! Paul

Yup. That is what I got. I was trying to find that but couldn't.

[Rich]

I’m adding a HR20 in a few weeks. It will be the sixth dual tuner box in the house, so I need 12 outputs.

Should I expect the Zinwell WB616 6x16 switch to be provided for free by DirecTV?

Mine was.