View Full Version : TIVO reduces S3 price
oldguy1
07-24-07, 08:07 AM
TIVO has reduced the price of their S3 HD DVR from about $800 down to $299.00.
Could this be the impetus D* needs to get their HR 20's fully functional?
Still waiting for VOD and the ability to stream videos from my PC, not to mention dual buffers.
TIVO has reduced the price of their S3 HD DVR from about $800 down to $299.00.
Could this be the impetus D* needs to get their HR 20's fully functional?
Still waiting for VOD and the ability to stream videos from my PC, not to mention dual buffers.
its actually a new model with less features and a smaller hard drive, not a price reduction
the $800 one is still available :)
here is a link to a review at PC Mag http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2161653,00.asp?kc=PCRSS02129TX1K0000530
VLaslow
07-24-07, 09:06 AM
TIVO has reduced the price of their S3 HD DVR from about $800 down to $299.00.
Could this be the impetus D* needs to get their HR 20's fully functional?
Still waiting for VOD and the ability to stream videos from my PC, not to mention dual buffers.
IMHO, this will have absolutely no effect on D* and, quite frankly, very little effect for Tivo. Too little, too late.
Mike D-CO5
07-24-07, 09:32 AM
No satellite support so NO DEAL.
OK, let's say you do go for the lower price HD TiVo, there's still a subscription that goes with it and if you opt for the most cost efficient method, $299 for 3 years prepay, you effectively double the price. I'd also look into what your local cable co charges for Cable Cards and if they're looking at deploying Switched Digital Video in the near future.
No satellite support so NO DEAL.
I thought I'd take a look before I got my HR20. My sentiments exactly! Actually I was a little surprised by that.
You can't use this stand alone Tivo with DTV anyway so I doubt that it has much impact at all.
Doug Brott
07-24-07, 10:15 AM
Prices reduced - yes. TiVo has been getting a lot of play in the press over this one and the cost reduction is what is being talked about. If TiVo can't become profitable with this product, then it may be an end to TiVo as we know it. Well, at least the phrase "I Tivo'd it" will probably stick around :).
bonscott87
07-24-07, 11:52 AM
Only a 160 gig hard drive? :( Only 20 hours of HD recording? Ouch.
How are they able to find a hard drive that small anymore? Crazy.
Cable companies use them, 160GB HdDs, all the time for their HD DVRs, Scott. I saw a post from someone who'd just gotten a Motorola Comcast HD DVR who was raving that it was 120 hours and I had to break it to them that was SD capability and it would be significantly less for HD.
It may be that the average user doesn't use much more than that. As for the cost don't forget that DTV will charge you monthly for the DVR fee, Addtl Rcvr fee and then there's the warranty fee they seem to be adding on without approval. At least they did it to me and a friend and a few others that have posted here.
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 12:47 PM
It may be that the average user doesn't use much more than that. As for the cost don't forget that DTV will charge you monthly for the DVR fee, Addtl Rcvr fee and then there's the warranty fee they seem to be adding on without approval. At least they did it to me and a friend and a few others that have posted here.
But then you have some cable-co's (they all are not the same)...
That will charge you a rental fee on the Cable-Card... and sometimes on both.
(Some don't charge at all, which makes it a hard comparison).
You will have to pay a DVR fee, but if this is a 2nd DVR... you only pay one fee, while with SA-TiVo's you still have to pay a reduced-fee for that 2nd one.
If it is just 1 unit, you still are paying only the $5.99 DVR fee (since the mirror fee is waived for the first unit).
And comparison to TiVo's service plans:
https://www3.tivo.com/store/plans.do
You can pay anywhere between $8.30 a month and $16.99
Depending on if you want to pre-pay, and how long... and what commitment you want to agree too (the site seems to dictate, that you have to agree to at least 1 year)
As for the protection plan... that is 100% a different issue.
The Tivo S3 box also was capable of adding an external eSata drive like the HR20 does so it really doesn't matter what size the HDD was. I'm assuming the new Tivo HD box will be capable as well.
Heck, replace it with a 20GB HDD and lower the price another $100, and let people just add their own external drive. ;)
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 12:51 PM
The Tivo S3 box also was capable of adding an external eSata drive like the HR20 does so it really doesn't matter what size the HDD was. I'm assuming the new Tivo HD box will be capable as well.
Heck, replace it with a 20GB HDD and lower the price another $100, and let people just add their own external drive. ;)
Sure it does...
That add's to this new "low" cost TiVo-HD version.
If you are getting a 320 ~50hr HD system for $299 from DirecTV...
But only getting a 160 ~20hr HD system for $299 from TiVo
You then to at least add the cost of another external 160gb (that is if the eSATA binds the two... on a DTivo)
mhayes70
07-24-07, 01:05 PM
This would be a no go for me. The hard drive is way to small. For the same price you get a lot larger hard drive with the HR20. No satellite interface, and I just watched the CNET review of it and they said it is sluggish between menus.
Alan Gordon
07-24-07, 01:09 PM
I got a S3 a couple of months ago for $399 after rebate... the hard drive is not a deal breaker since you own it and can replace the hard drive, but the aesthetics of the units are considerably different. I've had several people comment on how sharp a piece of equipment the TiVo Series 3 is, but this new one is rather dull looking.
I can definately say, my next TiVo will be another Series 3...
~Alan
But then you have some cable-co's (they all are not the same)...
That will charge you a rental fee on the Cable-Card... and sometimes on both.
(Some don't charge at all, which makes it a hard comparison).
You will have to pay a DVR fee, but if this is a 2nd DVR... you only pay one fee, while with SA-TiVo's you still have to pay a reduced-fee for that 2nd one.
If it is just 1 unit, you still are paying only the $5.99 DVR fee (since the mirror fee is waived for the first unit).
And comparison to TiVo's service plans:
https://www3.tivo.com/store/plans.do
You can pay anywhere between $8.30 a month and $16.99
Depending on if you want to pre-pay, and how long... and what commitment you want to agree too (the site seems to dictate, that you have to agree to at least 1 year)
As for the protection plan... that is 100% a different issue.
Earl,
I know what Tivo charges my post was in response to the post about how much it costs. Personally, I think Tivo charges too much for their service...but when you pile everything together Comcast with a Tivo and DirecTV...the cost difference isn't that great. Of course, it's never apples to apples because one offers more of this and less of that (HBO channels for instance). It gets even more confusing when you add in package discounts (Cable and Internet).
At some point in time I would expect Tivo to be purchased by one of the content providers...unless they can figure out a way to give their boxes away for free and make a profit off the service (a very tough thing to do with hardware...unless you're providing the content as well)
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 01:14 PM
Earl,
I know what Tivo charges my post was in response to the post about how much it costs. Personally, I think Tivo charges too much for their service...but when you pile everything together Comcast with a Tivo and DirecTV...the cost difference isn't that great. Of course, it's never apples to apples because one offers more of this and less of that (HBO channels for instance). It gets even more confusing when you add in package discounts (Cable and Internet).
At some point in time I would expect Tivo to be purchased by one of the content providers...unless they can figure out a way to give their boxes away for free and make a profit off the service (a very tough thing to do with hardware...unless you're providing the content as well)
Oh so true.
generalpatton78
07-24-07, 01:50 PM
Sure it does...
That add's to this new "low" cost TiVo-HD version.
If you are getting a 320 ~50hr HD system for $299 from DirecTV...
But only getting a 160 ~20hr HD system for $299 from TiVo
You then to at least add the cost of another external 160gb (that is if the eSATA binds the two... on a DTivo)
Shouldn't you list the Hr20-100 as 220gb since thats all the users can use? The Series 3 esata will also only add HD space instead of replace the drive. It's also a nice solution for the people who have elected to go OTA only. You can't do that with the HR20! I like my Hr20 but in my mind the Tivo is a better product by far, but Directv and Murdoch locked them out of making any more D* tivo's. So with all this Hd coming I'm staying with D* unless my local cable company turns off analog in my area and adds allot of HD. I also know there are allot of Tivo naysayers saying they are going to go belly up but lets not forget the patent lawsuit they won and are now fighting to be up held. That lawsuit is key to going to any tom dick and harry who is using their patents. As consumers we may not like that this lawsuit could cause the cost of business to go up for DVR manufactures (hence higher prices for us),but IMHO Tivo made this market and deserves payments for their patents.
Doug Brott
07-24-07, 01:59 PM
Shouldn't you list the Hr20-100 as 220gb since thats all the users can use?
DIRECTV's 50-hour claim is for MPEG4 HD content. I believe the number is smaller if it were all MPEG2 HD content.
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 02:06 PM
Shouldn't you list the Hr20-100 as 220gb since thats all the users can use? The Series 3 esata will also only add HD space instead of replace the drive. It's also a nice solution for the people who have elected to go OTA only. You can't do that with the HR20! I like my Hr20 but in my mind the Tivo is a better product by far, but Directv and Murdoch locked them out of making any more D* tivo's. So with all this Hd coming I'm staying with D* unless my local cable company turns off analog in my area and adds allot of HD. I also know there are allot of Tivo naysayers saying they are going to go belly up but lets not forget the patent lawsuit they won and are now fighting to be up held. That lawsuit is key to going to any tom dick and harry who is using their patents. As consumers we may not like that this lawsuit could cause the cost of business to go up for DVR manufactures (hence higher prices for us),but IMHO Tivo made this market and deserves payments for their patents.
As for the drive sizes... I could care less if it is a 500gb drive in there..
Hence why we try (at least here), to only list by the estimated capacities for recording space.
You are correct...you can't go OTA only on an HR20... by why would you then purchase an HD-DVR form a carrier? If you are intrested in just the HD-Content via OTA... get an HR10-250... they are still going to work.
There are several HD-DVR's out there for OTA only solution (some of which require no service fee), the T3 is not the only solution to OTA Only users.
Why is it always DirecTV & Murdoch? Isn't TiVo, Inc. part of that equation as well? None of us, where part of the meetings... so we have ZERO idea on what DirecTV may have asked for, and what TiVo may have asked for...
Analog Cable was just shut off here in Chicago (except for locals)... so while I don't know about your area, it is obvious that the cable-co's are starting to push to eliminate their analog transmissions...
The key about your lawsuit comment.. "fighting to uphold" that is a BIG key to that entire process...... While it "could" lead to higher DVR costs... it could also result in the loss of those "beloved" TiVo features... if other companies decide not to license them, or TiVo doesn't offer them to be licensed.
And if TiVo truely invented some of the technologies... then yes... if they are used, they should have the right to license them and get their patent payments.
But when you review some of the notions of the patents.... some of those concepts have been around WAY before TiVo, Inc. came into the picture.
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 02:10 PM
DIRECTV's 50-hour claim is for MPEG4 HD content. I believe the number is smaller if it were all MPEG2 HD content.
~30hours for MPEG-2 (either via OTA or SAT)
And just based on a cursory glance at Pricewatch.com
$44 for a 160gb SATA
$71 for a 320gb SATA
$88 for a 500gb SATA
That doesn't account for any type of "bulk" or B2B pricing that TiVo, Inc. could get from one of the vendors.
And heck, could probably even get lower, if they cut a partnership deal with one of the major hard drive vendor, and throw a sticker on the outside.
The notion that they only put a 160 in there... with today's storage needs for MPEG-2 HD... for an extra $27 (from a consumer price), they could have doubled the size of that storage
While you can get cheap hard drives, it may well cost more for one that is quiet and reliable. You always have to factor in the WAF.
Stuart Sweet
07-24-07, 02:21 PM
You know, I wish TiVo well with this product. More competition could only make all products better. They've sure got the deck stacked against them though, with cable companies and satellite providers giving away DVRs. Not to mention CableCard being kind of difficult to implement.
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 02:31 PM
While you can get cheap hard drives, it may well cost more for one that is quiet and reliable. You always have to factor in the WAF.
Yes, very true...
The reciever, IMHO, is just one aspect of D*, the carrier.
Although a TIVO S3 would have a feature or two i may crave, its the carrier and what it offers that makes me write the check every month to D*, and the reciever is just one part (CSR, content, etc.)
generalpatton78
07-24-07, 03:04 PM
Just to be clear earl I'm not beating up on the HR20, but your going into cost and such things and IMHO you opinion is usually pro D*. You fail to mention that the people that usually go with a S3 and cable save allot of cash by bundling phone/tv/and internet. Now I'm the first to say that Tivo needs to re evaluate their subscription fee's, but at least when somebody spends 300$ on a box they actually own it and it's not a "lease". As far as cost cutting nobody at TCM is complaining about the hard drive size just that they spent $300-500 more on the high end S3. Now I have 3 HR20's now, but D* gave all three to me to keep me as a customer. That combined with the move to liberty soon and all the HD coming in mid to late September has kept me with D*. They have showed me they deserve my business. As far as blaming Murdoch instead of tivo it's pretty easy to remember all the manufactors and software developers involved in D* equipment before Murdoch took over (RCA,Sony,Phillips,Tivo,Microsoft ect) now how many are involved? Lets just not get all high and mighty about the HR20 because it's finally become more then a beta device. Tivo is a very refined product and it may not be for everybody,but don't act like the HR20 has any advantage over a S3 except you can set up a SL with two button presses. The Hr20 has came a long way but it's still has many bugs (I still can't get audio from fox except during primetime).
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 03:19 PM
Just to be clear earl I'm not beating up on the HR20, but your going into cost and such things and IMHO you opinion is usually pro D*. You fail to mention that the people that usually go with a S3 and cable save allot of cash by bundling phone/tv/and internet. Now I'm the first to say that Tivo needs to re evaluate their subscription fee's, but at least when somebody spends 300$ on a box they actually own it and it's not a "lease". As far as cost cutting nobody at TCM is complaining about the hard drive size just that they spent $300-500 more on the high end S3. Now I have 3 HR20's now, but D* gave all three to me to keep me as a customer. That combined with the move to liberty soon and all the HD coming in mid to late September has kept me with D*. They have showed me they deserve my business. As far as blaming Murdoch instead of tivo it's pretty easy to remember all the manufactors and software developers involved in D* equipment before Murdoch took over (RCA,Sony,Phillips,Tivo,Microsoft ect) now how many are involved? Lets just not get all high and mighty about the HR20 because it's finally become more then a beta device. Tivo is a very refined product and it may not be for everybody,but don't act like the HR20 has any advantage over a S3 except you can set up a SL with two button presses. The Hr20 has came a long way but it's still has many bugs (I still can't get audio from fox except during primetime).
I understand that you are not beating up on the HR20..
And price comparisons that I through in there, where soley because this conversation has segements of comparing that particular TiVo offering to that of the HR20... hence where all the other factors come into play.
Tripple Play is what it is... but you are not "just" going to a cable-co, for the TV entertainment offerings... Of course you are saving money by going with the tripple play... but that is throwing in 3 and sometimes 4 factors that not even DirecTV can include (Internet, Local Phone Calling, and Cellular Phone Calling)...
So while that is obviously part of some people's equations for switching (And their right to it), but if we are going to compare T3 and HR20 (and any pressure because of it on DirecTV), we can only compare things that come into play.
If we want to compare bottom line bills, that is a different scenerio.
If we want to go down the lease and who owns what argument again...
You still can't use a T3 without a subscription, so while you may have be able to sell the box to recoup some of your original cost, you are not going to get the full value for it (unless the become rare and go up in value).
I hate the term "lease" that was tagged to what DirecTV's program is called... one of the worst naming things they coudl have done, as lease's mean so many different things in different enviornments...
As for all the vendors?... have you looked at all the vendors that are now part of the process now? there are 8 different manufactures of the boxes. Some of the sames ones, that built the same "cloned" DTiVo box.
Sure Philips got the right to change the outside of the DTivo... but inside it ws no different then the one Samsung built, or Hughes or RCA... they were identical on the inside (Based on series)...
So there are still a lot of different manufactures "building" the boxes, just the DirecTV name is on the outside, instead of the different vendors.
As for advantages differences of the T3 and the HR20...
I haven't used a T3, so I can't comment on the advantage differences between the two...
But just as the TiVo software may have 7 years of "refinment on it"... it is not perfect, and it to does have bugs.
So while the HR20 still has some issues... It has come a VERY long way from where it was just 1 year ago.
To each their own if they want to call it a bad beta device... I will argue that it is far from that designation, but that is a moot point, as you all can make up your own minds.
generalpatton78
07-24-07, 03:32 PM
I agree with almost everything you said. I just don't think you can compare prices of a so called "cable co DVR' versus a third party device unless you include all the factors that could factor to a price advantage. Each person has to factor in all those things when deciding for themselves and not just a lease or DVR fee. I will certainly admit that the R15 soured me to the move away from tivo and the HR20 has been a pleasant surprise so far. That said I'd pay 1000$ again for a HDTV tivo for Mpeg4.
Earl Bonovich
07-24-07, 03:50 PM
I agree with almost everything you said. I just don't think you can compare prices of a so called "cable co DVR' versus a third party device unless you include all the factors that could factor to a price advantage. Each person has to factor in all those things when deciding for themselves and not just a lease or DVR fee. I will certainly admit that the R15 soured me to the move away from tivo and the HR20 has been a pleasant surprise so far. That said I'd pay 1000$ again for a HDTV tivo for Mpeg4.
Agreed... except for your last line.
As being one of the ones that did pay $1,000 for the HR10-250.
I wouldn't pay anywhere near that amount for a DVR again... no matter who's software is running in it.
I don't want to comment on the comparison but just want to mention that I don't get anywhere near 50 hours of Mpeg 4 on my Hr20. I had about 20 hours (it might have been 21 or 22) of only primetime network TV (only Mpeg4) on my Hr20 and the space indicator had me on 50%. I would say I get about 40 hours of Mpeg4. I haven't tried Mpeg 2 on it but with my old Hr10 I used to get about 32-34 hours of Mpeg2.
Blurayfan
07-24-07, 04:51 PM
~30hours for MPEG-2 (either via OTA or SAT)
And just based on a cursory glance at Pricewatch.com
$44 for a 160gb SATA
$71 for a 320gb SATA
$88 for a 500gb SATA
That doesn't account for any type of "bulk" or B2B pricing that TiVo, Inc. could get from one of the vendors.
And heck, could probably even get lower, if they cut a partnership deal with one of the major hard drive vendor, and throw a sticker on the outside.
The notion that they only put a 160 in there... with today's storage needs for MPEG-2 HD... for an extra $27 (from a consumer price), they could have doubled the size of that storage
Earl
TiVo didn't put a larger drive in because the original Series3 only had a stock 250 and this was meant as a lite version.
While you can get cheap hard drives, it may well cost more for one that is quiet and reliable. You always have to factor in the WAF.
Compared to the OEM drives that original come in units such as this? That's probably no too hard to do.
Doug Brott
07-24-07, 04:55 PM
I don't want to comment on the comparison but just want to mention that I don't get anywhere near 50 hours of Mpeg 4 on my Hr20.
My 1-hour MPEG-4 recordings typically take up about 2.5 to 3% of the disk .. I would agree that this is closer to the 40-hour mark than the "up to 50 hour" mark that is used in Marketing material. Just think how that "up to 20 hour" mark translates on the TiVo, though.
oldguy1
07-24-07, 07:42 PM
So while the HR20 still has some issues... It has come a VERY long way from where it was just 1 year ago.
Amen!
All you need to know about the new TiVo is no SDV support. At this point it makes no sense to invest in a device that the cable co's have vowed to make obsolete.
Stuart Sweet
07-26-07, 08:44 AM
For me, the key point is that more players in the field means competition. That means everyone tries harder for the same customers. From what I've seen, S3Tivo doesn't bring any features that would want me to switch. I think the HR20 has a lot of features I prefer to TiVo's DVR, in fact.
+1
For me, the key point is that more players in the field means competition. That means everyone tries harder for the same customers. From what I've seen, S3Tivo doesn't bring any features that would want me to switch. I think the HR20 has a lot of features I prefer to TiVo's DVR, in fact.
bonscott87
07-26-07, 11:20 AM
All you need to know about the new TiVo is no SDV support. At this point it makes no sense to invest in a device that the cable co's have vowed to make obsolete.
Don't dare mention that on the Tivo forum, you'll be lynched as a blasphemer. :hurah:
CCarncross
07-26-07, 11:35 AM
Earl, shouldnt the thread title here be changed to say Tivo releases budget version of S3 so as not to mislead people? People here end up doing the exact thing they post complaints about companies doing having to do with claims of misleading info.
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