Grounding of the dish?

[996911]

I already have a 4 coax box installed on the roof where the dish will go so the installer will have it very easy. However, after reading some of the threads about grounding, etc., I can't help but ask, what do they ground the dish to? Is there something I can have pre-installed before they get here to make it easy for the installer?

[NR4P]

A proper ground is to cold water pipes (non-PVC) in most cases.

However, there are many jurisdictions at the state and local level that have unique electrical codes. Your local installer should be up to date and is required by local codes to ensure your equipment is installed per local guidelines.

While there are many good practices and opinions as to what is a good ground, it has to meet your local area's regulations. I work in a business that has to do installations with electronics and we worry about this area-by-area all over the U.S.

In other words, you need not worry about it. Let the installer do it per code.

[996911]

Thanks for the heads up on the electrical code. I had no idea. I'll just let the installer do it per code and just make sure it is done (aesthetically) to my preference.

Thanks again!

[aim2pls]

Thanks for the heads up on the electrical code. I had no idea. I'll just let the installer do it per code and just make sure it is done (aesthetically) to my preference.

Thanks again!


letting the installer handle it .. doesn't cut it .... corner cutting is corner cutting


call you local code enforcement office and ask

[Volman]

After doing searches on grounding the dish(versus grounding the 4 coax cables from the dish),I'm confused as to what to do.My installer did not ground the Slimline dish.Nor was my previous 3lnb dish grounded.The instructions for the Slimline install specify the dish being grounded with a separate line to ground.But, some folks are saying not to ground the dish,only the coax(for various reasons).I'm thinking I'll pick up a piece of 10ga copper and doing the ground.Any opinions on this?........Thanks.

[Milominderbinder2]

Here are complete details:

→ HR20 Satellite Dish Antenna Grounding Requirements (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620)

If your dish is not grounded properly it can harm your reception and even you.

Check the HR20 FAQ for these and more.

- Craig

[996911]

Thanks Craig! That is one great thread as a reference. Just bookmarked :)

[turls]

Ok, last time I had DirecTV come out (to install my first HR20 that is going to have to be replaced now), I told them on the phone I wanted my system grounded. When the installers came out, the main ground is on the other side of the house and they refused to do anything.

I don't see how DirecTV can refuse to install the system correctly, even if it is extra work to do the grounding. Wouldn't this be a liability issue? They originally installed the dish and all when I moved into the house 2 years ago. At my other house, DirecTV did ground the install.

[aim2pls]

Ok, last time I had DirecTV come out (to install my first HR20 that is going to have to be replaced now), I told them on the phone I wanted my system grounded. When the installers came out, the main ground is on the other side of the house and they refused to do anything.

I don't see how DirecTV can refuse to install the system correctly, even if it is extra work to do the grounding. Wouldn't this be a liability issue? They originally installed the dish and all when I moved into the house 2 years ago. At my other house, DirecTV did ground the install.

were you expecting to get the "extended" grounding done for free??

[turls]

Uh, why not? Its a little different than asking them to wire an extra 5 rooms for free. And the reason I'm wondering now (because in the past I've had antenna guys tell me I'm better off not being grounded), is because I've got a bad receiver now. Maybe not related at all.

I think they've got other options available to them besides wiring all the way to the main ground anyway. That's up to them as installers to decide and figure out, isn't it? Oh I forgot, and maybe you did too, these installers will cut any corners they can if they can get away with it.

[davejacobson]

proper grounding is to the main electrical ground.That comes with the professional install.Call Direct and try to get the install supervisor or QAS person to inspect the install and ground your system. Proper placement of the dish usually resolves long or ugly ground runs. When you did the pre-install work did you think of the ground? Most non-professionals dont think of that and you end up with a bad situation. As an installer I deside on dish placement taking into account alot of factors.The customers prefrence is a factor but not final ususlly line of sight and ground take preference.

[Milominderbinder2]

Ok, last time I had DirecTV come out (to install my first HR20 that is going to have to be replaced now), I told them on the phone I wanted my system grounded. When the installers came out, the main ground is on the other side of the house and they refused to do anything.

I don't see how DirecTV can refuse to install the system correctly, even if it is extra work to do the grounding. Wouldn't this be a liability issue? They originally installed the dish and all when I moved into the house 2 years ago. At my other house, DirecTV did ground the install.
Call DIRECTV and tell them that the install did not meet their own dish manual or local code. Do not sign off on anything in this case.

- Craig

[Volman]

I just called Directv,after reading hundreds of posts about grounding.The consensus seems to be to ground the coax cables(all of the RG6s from the dish-the LNBs,specifically) with a grounding block(so,a quad grounding block for 4 coax cables,etc)......and,separately,ground the dish itself.

So you would have,for example, a 10ga solid copper wire from the quad grounding block to ground....and a 10ga solid copper wire from the dish all the way to ground.These are separate wires that run to a common ground point(typically where your electric service is grounded as it enters the home.

When I called,I told them it was not grounded properly and they set up an "incomplete install" service call.........no questions asked.

[turls]

proper grounding is to the main electrical ground.That comes with the professional install.Call Direct and try to get the install supervisor or QAS person to inspect the install and ground your system. Proper placement of the dish usually resolves long or ugly ground runs. When you did the pre-install work did you think of the ground? Most non-professionals dont think of that and you end up with a bad situation. As an installer I deside on dish placement taking into account alot of factors.The customers prefrence is a factor but not final ususlly line of sight and ground take preference.

Ok first of all, there is no code enforcement in this town. But even if there was, at the time of initial install, I had conflicting advice about grounding from installers I trusted. So when the DirecTV guy showed up, I didn't worry about him being on the same side of the house where the Dish antenna from the previous owner was (which is on the opposite side of the house from the main ground).

I just don't think the typical morons they send out are going to be easy to deal with on a fix even if I get a supervisor involved, but thanks for the advice. Its probably the only good option I have at this point.

[M3 Pete]

Is grounding primarily for lightning protection? Or is there an operational reason? Lightning is an extremely rare occurrence where I live.

I grounded my dish with the copper wire that came with and is bonded to the dual coax cable. It was similar to, but not identical to this:

http://www.merchantamerica.com/utahsatellite/index.php?ba=product_enlarge&product=33752

I'm not sure the coax itself is grounded with a block, I'll have to check.

[aim2pls]

Is grounding primarily for lightning protection? Or is there an operational reason? Lightning is an extremely rare occurrence where I live.

I grounded my dish with the copper wire that came with and is bonded to the dual coax cable. It was similar to, but not identical to this:

http://www.merchantamerica.com/utahsatellite/index.php?ba=product_enlarge&product=33752

I'm not sure the coax itself is grounded with a block, I'll have to check.

lightning

[RobertE]

Is grounding primarily for lightning protection? Or is there an operational reason? Lightning is an extremely rare occurrence where I live.

I grounded my dish with the copper wire that came with and is bonded to the dual coax cable. It was similar to, but not identical to this:

http://www.merchantamerica.com/utahsatellite/index.php?ba=product_enlarge&product=33752

I'm not sure the coax itself is grounded with a block, I'll have to check.

Nope not lightning. If it takes a direct hit, the dish, lines and everything else connected to it will go *POOF*. Grounded or not.

Its primarily for two things.

1) Static buildup discharge
2) Accidental contact discharge..

[aim2pls]

Nope not lightning. If it takes a direct hit, the dish, lines and everything else connected to it will go *POOF*. Grounded or not.

Its primarily for two things.

1) Static buildup discharge
2) Accidental contact discharge..

static buildup will probably not happen due to the shield of the coax to the receiver

18 volts DC isn't really a "shocker"

just my opinion mind you

also in my opinion .. they whole grounding issue is way overstated ... there are literally 100's of thousands of ungrounded dishes out there ... that have been there for years and years and it hasn't been a major problem

grounding a dish "properly" turns it into a lightning rod similar to what you see on barns etc

also .. a ground rod needs to be at least 8 feet long to have any real effect getting it into soil that is typicaly wet/damp

[Milominderbinder2]

aim2pls,

Grounding is not the same as lightning protection.

Many older homes do not have grounded outlets so the grounds float. And the HR20-700 does not have a ground wire. Even on the -100's people use cheater plugs to disable the gorund in older homes with 2-wire outlets.

Users have reported that Caller ID issues were solved once the ground potential between the phone lines and receiver/dish were corrected with proper grounding. Some had this resolve signal strength issues.

The manuals for the 5LNB dishes says they have to be grounded in compliance with the NEC.

Do you have the 2004 NEC?

Do you have a EE or test background?

Did you slepp at a Holiday Inn last night? :)

- Craig

[aim2pls]

aim2pls,

Grounding is not the same as lightning protection.

Many older homes do not have grounded outlets so the grounds float. And the HR20-700 does not have a ground wire. Even on the -100's people use cheater plugs to disable the gorund in older homes with 2-wire outlets.

Users have reported that Caller ID issues were solved once the ground potential between the phone lines and receiver/dish were corrected with proper grounding. Some had this resolve signal strength issues.

The manuals for the 5LNB dishes says they have to be grounded in compliance with the NEC.

Do you have the 2004 NEC?

Do you have a EE or test background?

Did you slepp at a Holiday Inn last night? :)

- Craig

lol on the holiday inn

test background btw .. and 25 years installation experience

I always check with the local electrical code official in new towns (many don't care if a dish is grounded) and do as they require

and your right ground potentials cause all kinds of problems

and grounding the dish does make it into a lightning rod ... aka it raises the ground potential to the dish thus making it the shortest distance to ground for a lightning strike. (fyi lightning strikes travels from the ground up)

I actually saw some specs ... done by a electrical engineer ... that required a lightning rod to be attached to the high point of a 1.8 meter dish (VSAT).. all roof mounts (NPRM's) .... it was for a network of 35 dishes .... (July/Aug installation timeframe) ... half the dishes had been hit by lightning before the network was completed ...... various installers had to go and remove the grounds and lightning rods for what were left

[M3 Pete]

I asked the installer about grounding, and he said it CAN affect operation, but he installs them simply because DirecTV wants to have a consistent nationwide install policy and thus he grounds all installations.

He also said although the wire attached to the dual coax cable is not 10 gauge, the principle is that because it is thicker than the coax center conductor, it will be a preferred path. I don't know if he is correct, but I suppose that might work for lower voltages. I'm pretty sure that a lightning strike is going to overwhelm the whole system.

Anyway, we grounded the dish with the attached wire and ran the coax through a ground block. It's all attached to a copper water pipe under my house, which is not the ideal location for a lightning ground, but since that's a very unlikely occurrence, I'm not too worried.

[turls]

I asked the installer about grounding, and he said it CAN affect operation, but he installs them simply because DirecTV wants to have a consistent nationwide install policy and thus he grounds all installations.

ROTF. The only time I've gotten a ground installed by DirecTV is if I've begged and pleaded and even that hasn't worked at my new house. They aren't on the same page enough with installation companies to have a "consistent nationwide install policy".

[HiDefGator]

My understanding has always been the idea is to ground the dish so that

1. It is not as desirable a target for lightning strikes as an ungrounded statically charged dish can become. Imagine it making the dish electrically invisible to lightning strikes.
2. If an elecrtic wire and coax both get cut the dish can't shock you.
3. It can help dissipate the charge\surge from nearby lightning strikes before it reaches your equipment.

[aim2pls]

My understanding has always been the idea is to ground the dish so that

1. It is not as desirable a target for lightning strikes as an ungrounded statically charged dish can become. Imagine it making the dish electrically invisible to lightning strikes.
2. If an elecrtic wire and coax both get cut the dish can't shock you.
3. It can help dissipate the charge\surge from nearby lightning strikes before it reaches your equipment.


answers:

1) wrong ..... example .. lightning rods on barns etc

2) but the electrical wire will .. so makes no difference

3) true ... chances are some will still get to your equipment

[Milominderbinder2]

My understanding has always been the idea is to ground the dish so that

1. It is not as desirable a target for lightning strikes as an ungrounded statically charged dish can become. Imagine it making the dish electrically invisible to lightning strikes.
2. If an electric wire and coax both get cut the dish can't shock you.
3. It can help dissipate the charge\surge from nearby lightning strikes before it reaches your equipment.
1. Grounding and lightning protection are very different things. Please see:
→ HR20 Satellite Dish Antenna Grounding Requirements (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620)
2. Proper grounding does not prevent electrocution from cutting into AC lines.
3. See #1.

You need to ground your dish so that you can:
1. Stay in compliance with the manuals for your warranty.
2. Stay in compliance with the National Electric Code (NEC) and local codes.
3. Reduce the chance of floating grounds that can cause shock.
4. Reduce under-voltage problems with your receivers.

Here are complete details:

→ HR20 Satellite Dish Antenna Grounding Requirements (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620)

- Craig