View Full Version : why I think E PVRs price will fall
Bob Haller
11-07-02, 07:19 AM
E priced the PVRs to compete with D. Who had that $10 monthly charge for TIVO. Since D decreased it and elminated it altogether for subs with the biggest package I believe E will have lower prices on PVRs espically new models. I see a drop in price coming for the 508 as well. Probably to about $200 espically once the 522 is released.
dlsnyder
11-07-02, 08:14 AM
If they subsidize the price that much where will they get the revenue to offset it? Is VOD coming soon to E* and if so do they think it will be a significant source of revenue? If so it would make sense in the same way that game machine makers subsidize the hardware to sell games at $40 each.
dishrich
11-07-02, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Bob Haller
I see a drop in price coming for the 508 as well. Probably to about $200 espically once the 522 is released.
So what is SO great about this - it's still the same price as a D-Tivo & still ONLY has ONE tuner... :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
Originally posted by dishrich
So what is SO great about this - it's still the same price as a D-Tivo & still ONLY has ONE tuner... :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
uh....I think that's the whole purpose of the thread... i.e. yeah, you're right....
Keep an eye on prices becoming more competitive or E* not picking up as many subs as PVRs become more popular.
Bob Haller
11-07-02, 11:09 AM
Well traditionally the 508 would likely price out about $200. This typically occurs after the unit is out for awhile.
But E HAS to decrease all the PVR pricing. D encourages PVRs because it gets them the BEST subs. Long term low churn.
I see this as a coming attraction soon.
DirecTV DECREASED the PVR fee to compete WITH Dish Network, not the other way around.
Originally posted by EricG
DirecTV DECREASED the PVR fee to compete WITH Dish Network, not the other way around.
Right, but cost and quality of equipment clearly lies in D*'s court. The Tivo is CLEARLY a better product than the PVR and for the same price, a new sub will choose the better product.
Mark Holtz
11-07-02, 12:40 PM
One of the problems with Dish PVRs (not Dishplayer) is that you can't upgrade the hard drive--it's married to the receiver. Now, there may be good reasons for this. But, with hard drive pricing coming down, who wouldn't want to swap out the 40 GB hard drive with a 100GB. Heck, Western Digital has a 200GB drive available NOW, and there has been a 320GB drive announced.
I also heard a rumor that the DirecTivo Series 2 can no longer be upgradable now.
Originally posted by Z'Loth
One of the problems with Dish PVRs (not Dishplayer) is that you can't upgrade the hard drive--it's married to the receiver. Now, there may be good reasons for this. But, with hard drive pricing coming down, who wouldn't want to swap out the 40 GB hard drive with a 100GB. Heck, Western Digital has a 200GB drive available NOW, and there has been a 320GB drive announced.
I also heard a rumor that the DirecTivo Series 2 can no longer be upgradable now.
For the consumer it sucks, but for the companies, it's a money-maker. It forces you to buy a whole new unit to upgrade. Maybe, they'll eventually make proprietary upgrades, but it does make business sense for now.
dbronstein
11-07-02, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by cnsf
Right, but cost and quality of equipment clearly lies in D*'s court. The Tivo is CLEARLY a better product than the PVR and for the same price, a new sub will choose the better product.
I'm not so sure about that. I'd bet that most new subs don't do much research and assume the products are comparable, so they look mainly at price when making a decision.
Dennis
Bob Haller
11-07-02, 01:57 PM
well I SUSPECT the lack of upgrade ability is for the program suppliers. Fear of exact duplicate copies. Its wrong and since E looses money oin EVERY box iits a bad deal. This is a EXCELLENT tech chat question.
The higher E PVR price must be hurting sales...
Mark Holtz
11-07-02, 02:06 PM
Except that Dish advertises a fee-free PVR, something that DirecTV hasn't embraced until recently.
dlsnyder
11-07-02, 04:54 PM
Dish is pretty close to that price point now anyway. You can get a 508 at Costco for $270 with no commitment.
Bob Haller
11-07-02, 06:15 PM
Well the D 2 decoder TIVO is what $200 in comparison with E for $500. Thats a hugh spread..
Karl Foster
11-07-02, 06:29 PM
Here's how I see it. I have two 2-tuner Ultimatetv receivers and pay $10.00 per month for the service. I got them both for a very good price, which I researched often in order to make sure I got a good price. Between both units and after upgrading the hard drive in one, I am out $200 total, plus $10 per month.
If I was to buy two 2-tuner PVR's from E*, I'd be out $1000. Since I don't have a grand just sitting waiting for me to spend, I'd have to charge it, and my minimum payment would be $30 per month, and would take years to pay off because of interest. So, my fee-free PVR's would be at least $30 per month, which according to the new math is $20 more than I pay now.
I guess for someone with a wad of cash lying around the fee-free PVR would be a good way to go, it just wouldn't work for me.
dbronstein
11-07-02, 09:26 PM
This just shows that everyone's situation is different. I can't imagine why anyone would need two 2-tuner PVRs, so the cost of two units would never factor into my decision. Obviously it's important to Karl to have two, so it was a big part of his decision.
I just went from ReplayTV to a 721 because I wanted the two-tuners and I was tired of having the separate units. THere's a good delay changing channels with Replay since it has to fire the satellite box, and occasionally it would miss a digit on the channel so it wouldn't record the right channel. So I was willing to pay a premium for an integrated receiver. And I paid cash for the 721, so having no monthly fee is a nice bonus, although when I bought my Replay unit there was no monthly fee either.
Dennis
Neil Derryberry
11-08-02, 06:14 AM
Actually, D* equipment was so heavily subsidized that until about 6 months ago, you could get 2 sony utv's and get the entire purchase price rebated back... that's why I have 2 utv's.
Dual-tuner is definitely the way to go, and E* isn't going to significantly increase their installed base of 721's unless they can price them competitvely and give folks a reason to want that box. I would have to sell both of my UTVs on ebay to even come close to affording 1 721, and the 721 isn't good enough to make me want to do that.
Originally posted by dbronstein
I'd bet that most new subs don't do much research and assume the products are comparable, so they look mainly at price when making a decision.
Dennis
And the fact that E* Dealers have been advertising the DishPVR as "TiVo Like".
gcutler
11-08-02, 06:34 PM
Give me a 508 for $99 (and a 1 year committment to AT150) and I'd buy one just to have PAUSE on the upstairs TV :D
Originally posted by Bob Haller
well I SUSPECT the lack of upgrade ability is for the program suppliers. Fear of exact duplicate copies. Its wrong and since E looses money oin EVERY box iits a bad deal. This is a EXCELLENT tech chat question.
The higher E PVR price must be hurting sales...
This can EASILY be overcome by using PKI. The OS can be installed on any new HD, openly, but each recorded item could be married to the PVR using PKI rather than the HD being married to it. So, you just lose your programming and the OS gets reinstalled on the new HD.
That way, you protect the programming and give the consumer the ability to tweak the PVR and void their warranties (creating less liability for the cos.).
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