ESPN-HD Blackout

[Taco Lover]

I've searched for the answer, but cannot find it...

I understand the blackout rules for ESPN-HD when an RSN is carrying a market game, but what about this situation: last night the SF Giants game was on ESPN-HD. Normally it would be blacked out if FSNBA is showing the game as well, but it wasn't. FSNBA was showing the A's game instead. So I flipped the game on ESPN-HD to see if I can see Bonds hit a homer in wonderful HD goodness. (Dish does not have FSNBA-HD)

Voila! It's on! Sweet! Until... I changed the channel half an hour later, and when I tried to go back it said it was blacked out. Apparently, KMAX, one of our Sacramento local channels, was broadcasting the KTVU broadcast from the SF market.

So, if I can't get the SF market locals, and FSNBA is not broadcasting the game, why is ESPN-HD blacked out because our local channel is piggy-backing a channel that isn't in our DMA?

[grooves12]

You sure it wasn't broadcast on FSN+?

[Taco Lover]

You sure it wasn't broadcast on FSN+?
Forgot about FSN+, but after checking the schedule from last night, it wasn't on any FSNBA channel.

[aaronbud]

Just be glad the game was actually being carried by KMAX. There have been a few times over the past few years when the Gmen were on ESPN, FOX, etc. and the game was also a KTVU game and 31 did not show it in Sactown, but we were all blacked out anyway! Same goes for the A's if KICU 36 has the game... Basically since Sacramento is in the Giants'/A's DMA, any broadcast from that DMA is considered to be "local" (for us it's KTVU or FSNBA), even if you can't get the signal. Blackout rules are set up to force you to always watch the local broadcast no matter what. That is the answer I have been given.
I just wish KMAX would get with it and commit to all KTVU games and also provide us with HD of these games, they currently use KTVU's Directv SD feed. LAME!

[DanB474]

The way it works is this. The Giants are in our (I'm in Sac area) 'area'. They are the local Nat'l League team. The ESPN broadcast did not have exclusive "National Broadcast" rights to the game - as opposed to the Saturday Fox national broadcasts. Even if UPN 31 was not re-broadcasting the SF Bay Area Fox channel 2 broadcast like they did, the game would have been blacked out on ESPN. If bay area channel 2 is broadcastin

Really crummy since we didn't get to see the HD feed, but that's the rules. This is the same with Hockey. When the Sharks are on Versus (non exclusive rights broadcast) the game is blacked out in the SF Bay Area and Sacramento area. I happen to live east of Sac far enough where it does not affect me (Roseville, El Dorado Hills - both areas are far enough from San Jose to receive any broadcast w/o a blackout), and I get all feeds of the game - even NHL Center Ice "distant" RSN broadcasts. Apparently the baseball "area" is wider and hence a wider area for the blackout.

Hope this answers your question.

[Taco Lover]

Sucks. Yeah that explains it.

KMAX is using DirecTV's SD feed? THAT'S why it looks so bad, even on OTA.

At least give us the HD feeds.

[aaronbud]

Sucks. Yeah that explains it.

KMAX is using DirecTV's SD feed? THAT'S why it looks so bad, even on OTA.

At least give us the HD feeds.

That is the story their program director has given me. I make sure to email him about once a month @ programdir@kmaxtv.com just to speak my mind.
I encourage everyone in the Sacto DMA to do the same. That would at least give us the games in HD over OTA, (since KMAX is only SD on E*), and hopefully sooner than later E* will give us the FSN Bay Area games in HD also........

[ssmith10pn]

Same thing happened last week when the Giants were playing the Braves.
It was on ESPN and blacked out. Blew my mind because the game was on the west coast and it was blacked out in the east!

[Jim5506]

Except for one or two nights a week, your local RSN or OTA station has preference for any games that ESPN might carry. The Giants Braves game was blacked out on ESPN because there was a primary provider in the Atlanta area covering the game, ESPN was secondary.

[aaronbud]

Sucks. Yeah that explains it.

KMAX is using DirecTV's SD feed? THAT'S why it looks so bad, even on OTA.

At least give us the HD feeds.

This is the most recent reply I received re: Giants in HD on 31:

"Dear Aaron,

CW 31 is unable to carry the HD broadcasts of the Giants because of the method KTVU uses to supply us with the game. If games were sent via satellite, we would be able to carry the HD coverage. However, a few years ago KTVU decided that they would stop satellite feeds and instead have us pick up their broadcast of the game off DirecTV. We are essentially picking up their broadcast and not their production signal now.



It is never in our best interest to have unhappy viewers. We apologize for this flaw in the method of delivery KTVU has chosen for the games.



Thank you for watching Giants baseball on CW 31.



Sincerely,



Program Director

CW 31/CBS 13"

I am guessing KTVU is not available on D* in HD, otherwise we would be getting it OTA on 31.1. So who's tree do we shake now? KTVU or Directv?

[Taco Lover]

I am guessing KTVU is not available on D* in HD, otherwise we would be getting it OTA on 31.1. So who's tree do we shake now? KTVU or Directv?
KTVU is available in HD on DirecTV. KMAX is probably just taking the easy way and grabbing the SD feed. Boy, does the PQ look horrible, though. :nono2:

[Taco Lover]

Sure would have been nice to see that homer in HD!

[ssmith10pn]

Except for one or two nights a week, your local RSN or OTA station has preference for any games that ESPN might carry. The Giants Braves game was blacked out on ESPN because there was a primary provider in the Atlanta area covering the game, ESPN was secondary.

Who was the Atlanta provider because I couldn't find the game anywhere!

[Sam 8]

I know that this is a money thing, so all other issues fall by the wayside, but strictly speaking from a right v. wrong deal, this blackout thing stinks.
I live 65 miles northeast of Sacto. If I was going to drive to the Bay Area it would take 3 1/2 hours on a good day. Like most of us here, I have scrimped and saved for the HD gear, and then pay E the $ for the channels in HD.
Then, when the specific stuff I want to watch the most comes on, we get the blackout. For whatever reason, FSBA on 419 is a much better picture than the UPN 31 on my setup, and it still burns me that the HD feed is there, and I am paying for it, but I can't have it. After reading this, if 31 is the only TV option, I will listen to the game on the radio, and watch the highlights on Sportcenter later.
Just my small act of defiance.
I think I will email Mr. 31 program manager and let him know.
And please, suggesting we contact Congre$$ to get this changed is a waste of time. Most of those folks don't even know when it is time to change their own Depends, let alone actually change them.:rolleyes:

[Yes616]

I am in the NYC DMA and noticed it always seems to work like this..

The Mets are usually on Sportsnet New York (SNY) or sometimes WPIX (CW11) and all home games are available in HD. (No CW11 in HD via Dish).

If a game is on Fox Saturday Baseball then that will be the only place to find it in your local DMA. If you get your local Fox channel in HD, then you can get the game in HD regardless if it's played at home or not.

If a local game is on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball then that will be the only place to find it. Also here, if you get HD you will see all ESPN games in HD.

If a game is on ESPN on any other night of the week, then it will be on one of your local channels (either local broadcast or RSN) and it will be blacked out on ESPN.

[aaronbud]

KTVU is available in HD on DirecTV. KMAX is probably just taking the easy way and grabbing the SD feed. Boy, does the PQ look horrible, though. :nono2:

That blows a hole in 31's excuse then. They should pony up and give us the HD!
The PQ of the OTA for me looks just a tad clearer than Dish Network's SD feed. I usually will watch 31.1 using just my TV's OTA tuner (50" Sony LCD projector) and set the zoom to "Wide Zoom". This seems to be the best PQ......but then I can;t use my 622's DVR functions....Wide Zoom through on the 622 looks ok, but then the score panel gets lost off part of the screen.

IF you are a Dish Network sub, and live in Sacramento you basically can only see the Giants in HD if they are on Fox Game of the Week or ESPN Sunday night baseball, as Dish does not offer FSNBA in HD yet, and our before mentioned KTVU/KMAX issue. Hopefully next season we will have a better team, and more HD........

[Charles Oliva]

KTVU is available in HD on DirecTV. KMAX is probably just taking the easy way and grabbing the SD feed. Boy, does the PQ look horrible, though. :nono2:


Or KMAX is too cheap to install a microwave link on Mt. Diablo to receive KTVU's feed off Mt. Sutro.

BTW, how do stations in Reno and Fresno get the Giants games?

[Bob Hess]

Just be glad the game was actually being carried by KMAX. There have been a few times over the past few years when the Gmen were on ESPN, FOX, etc. and the game was also a KTVU game and 31 did not show it in Sactown, but we were all blacked out anyway! Same goes for the A's if KICU 36 has the game... Basically since Sacramento is in the Giants'/A's DMA, any broadcast from that DMA is considered to be "local" (for us it's KTVU or FSNBA), even if you can't get the signal. Blackout rules are set up to force you to always watch the local broadcast no matter what. That is the answer I have been given.
I just wish KMAX would get with it and commit to all KTVU games and also provide us with HD of these games, they currently use KTVU's Directv SD feed. LAME!

The game is distributed by the flagship station and the form of distribution is DirecTV. That is the way all of the affiliates air the games. Should there be a better way of distribution? Probably, but these are the cards we have been dealt and the flagship station has a budget to deal with and a team that is not exactly tearing the league apart.

The HD games are not distributed to us.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
CBS13 KOVR / CW31 KMAX

[Bob Hess]

Or KMAX is too cheap to install a microwave link on Mt. Diablo to receive KTVU's feed off Mt. Sutro.

BTW, how do stations in Reno and Fresno get the Giants games?
Uh.....we have plenty of microwave circuits between SF and Sacramento, and that includes a link on Diablo. We have tried microwaving these games from Sutro. If you are going to make a statement, make sure you know the facts.

- Bob