Slimline dish on vent pipe?

[bLiTz 2k]

Hello everyone, new the forums and satellite in general so sorry if I come across as lost here :)

Well just decided to switch from cable and was really excited about getting DirecTv but Im running into alot of issues with my install..

I live in a "co-op" style complex. It is two stories and is attached on only one side. You need permission to have any kind of satellite installed (which I have gotten). However the complex's stipulations state that the dish must be attached to a ventilation pipe coming out of roof (to avoid drilling holes directly into the roof). I honestly didnt think this was a problem until I realized I was getting a very large 30lbs dish that is required for HD. I believe it is the "slimline" model with 3 LNBs.

Now I've read of people with HD DirecTv service installing to these types of pipes with U-Brackets and things of that nature, however the install guys are almost reluctant to even mess with it because theyre too scared the dish will not stay. I honestly dont think there would be an issue if its properly clamped...maybe future damage to the building but I honestly dont care at this point..(after 3 failed visits from DirecTv installers for whatever reason Im very frustrated).

Does anyone have a setup remotely like this or have any ideas that could help me out? Is there any way I can have them attach it to the pole even if the installer doesnt feel comfortable? After all Im PAYING for this install...Thanks for any responses.

[Teronzhul]

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67562&highlight=pipe+vent

Pictures and everything.

As an installer, I don't think I'd do it.

You don't have any other options for a tripod or anything?

[bLiTz 2k]

Pictures and everything.

As an installer, I don't think I'd do it.


Thanks alot for the quick response, ill check it out. Honestly, I think im going to have the guy put it in the roof anyway, and maybe just give the appearance its attached the pipe. I know it sounds sketchy but I have no love for the amount of nazi rules this place enforces anyway. Different rant entirely, hehe, thanks again.

[bLiTz 2k]

Pictures and everything.

As an installer, I don't think I'd do it.

You don't have any other options for a tripod or anything?

Well, they also dont want it in the ground which sucks, the rule to even allow it on the pipe was passed in 95, and boy have times changed since then. If it doesnt go on the pipe, or at least look like its on the pipe im going to have a problem :(

also, the pipe is steel so its not like its flaky pvc...Its fairly strong. What I'm really interested in if theres any hardware out there I could order to get this kind of job done.

[HDTVFanAtic]

Who pays for the water leak and to repair the roof after wind prys the pipe back and forth enough to eventually cause a leak in the roof?

[Mertzen]

Are you allowed to put up a non penetrating roof mount ?

[RobertE]

Our HSP says absolutely not to vent mounts. Reason being, if that pipe were to crack/break under the stress that the wind loading can produce, guess who is on the hook to replace it? They just don't want that liability.

[bLiTz 2k]

Are you allowed to put up a non penetrating roof mount ?

Thanks for the replies everyone..

I suppose but is there any such mount for a slanted roof?

Our HSP says absolutely not to vent mounts. Reason being, if that pipe were to crack/break under the stress that the wind loading can produce, guess who is on the hook to replace it? They just don't want that liability.

Understandable of course, however if the management here insits its on a vent pipe, then I would think it'd be their fault if something were to happen..but I see the point :).

I'm seriously thinking about putting it into the roof and doing the best to make it look like its on the pipe, its not like theres a landlord or someone who will inspect the job. The roofs were just redone and wont be again for another 25+years.

[kenglish]

A vent pipe install is a sure way to get leaks, and their attendent rot and mold.

And, that one that is pictured..........
It is mounted on top of the pipe, completely blocking the air flow, which is defeating the purpose of the vent. And, the install is using white nylon cable ties, which will turn to dust after a few months of UV sunlight.

And, I dare to ask, is that electrical standpipe made of black PVC? If it's metal, it looks like it's painted black....so how does the ground clamp (actually a hose clamp) make good electrical contact?

Many people install a standard dish mount near the edge of the roof, on the overhang, so any leaks will go outside. Not the ideal, but it works better than leaking inside the house. Proper waterproofing is the key, though.

Can you install to an exterior wall? That would be much better, and the HOA should prefer that over an expensive repair/cleanup/mold removal job later.

[BillPear]

A vent pipe install is a sure way to get leaks, and their attendent rot and mold.

And, that one that is pictured..........
It is mounted on top of the pipe, completely blocking the air flow, which is defeating the purpose of the vent. And, the install is using white nylon cable ties, which will turn to dust after a few months of UV sunlight.

And, I dare to ask, is that electrical standpipe made of black PVC? If it's metal, it looks like it's painted black....so how does the ground clamp (actually a hose clamp) make good electrical contact?

Many people install a standard dish mount near the edge of the roof, on the overhang, so any leaks will go outside. Not the ideal, but it works better than leaking inside the house. Proper waterproofing is the key, though.

Can you install to an exterior wall? That would be much better, and the HOA should prefer that over an expensive repair/cleanup/mold removal job later.

Actually kenglish, that is my install (Rocko boosted my photos), and the only thing you are right about is the ziptie, which has lasted a year in the SoCal sun (Install is on the west side).

The vent pipe mount is specically designed for that application and is open on the top to allow the vent to function.

No it dosen't leak as the vent pipe is securly mounted and has the proper flashing installed, my old 3lnb dish was up there for over 5 years before the slimline was installed.

And yest the electrical standpipe is metal (I wouldn't think plastic would be up to code) painted black, the clamp is also not a "Hose Clamp" but a clamp designed for a goundwire intallation and of course the paint underneath is removed.

Blitz, here is the post with the original photos, like I said before, this mount has worked fine for my for nearly 7 years now.

[HDTVsportsfan]

I can't imagine why management would want a dish mounted to a vent pipe. I would imagine that would be against some type of code. I would certainly investigate an alternative.

[henree]

Thanks alot for the quick response, ill check it out. Honestly, I think im going to have the guy put it in the roof anyway, and maybe just give the appearance its attached the pipe. I know it sounds sketchy but I have no love for the amount of nazi rules this place enforces anyway. Different rant entirely, hehe, thanks again.

If your landlord gave you a request not to mount it on a pipe, that means they dont want it on the roof- especially if its BRand NEW. Maybe you should talk to them and work out an alternative and tell them that is a new big dish and it wont be installed on a vent pipe.
But do not install it on a roof per landlords request. my 2 cents.

[jdspencer]

How do you make sure that the vent pipe is perfectly plumb? As this is required for a good alignment of the AT9.

[BillPear]

How do you make sure that the vent pipe is perfectly plumb? As this is required for a good alignment of the AT9.

A level placed on the sides check each 90 degrees

[bLiTz 2k]

Actually kenglish, that is my install (Rocko boosted my photos), and the only thing you are right about is the ziptie, which has lasted a year in the SoCal sun (Install is on the west side).

The vent pipe mount is specically designed for that application and is open on the top to allow the vent to function.

No it dosen't leak as the vent pipe is securly mounted and has the proper flashing installed, my old 3lnb dish was up there for over 5 years before the slimline was installed.

And yest the electrical standpipe is metal (I wouldn't think plastic would be up to code) painted black, the clamp is also not a "Hose Clamp" but a clamp designed for a goundwire intallation and of course the paint underneath is removed.

Blitz, here is the post with the original photos, like I said before, this mount has worked fine for my for nearly 7 years now.

Awesome BillPear. I actually have a friend of the family that is a satellite installer that will attempt an install for me on my vent pipe. Hopefully after he checks it out, it could be done.

Do you still have the original photos? Where did you get the mount? Thanks again.

[BillPear]

Do you still have the original photos? Where did you get the mount? Thanks again.


My original installer put the 3 LNB on the pipe, when they upgraded to the Slimline that installer checked the pipe for plumb and went ahead with the new-larger mount. As for the original photos, I don't see them on this computer in my office, they may have been on my laptop which just crashed:(

Is there a reason, something you wanted to see?

[Mike500]

I suspect that the Management knows a lot more that the posters here suggest.

The guy is in New York City. Anyone who knows anything about plumbing codes in New York City knows that they have the strictest plumbing codes. Everything more than one story in height requires cast iron or steel vent pipes. No pvc or abs plastic vent pipes are allowed. So, the pipe will be sufficiently strong to hold your intended 5 lnb AU9 slimline dish.

Forget what the other poster said about the pipe being "perfectly plumb." The mounting pole will allow all adjustment needed, even if the vent pipe is not plumb. You need to know the diameter of the vent pipe, so that you can get the necessary two "U" bolts before the installer comes. "U" bolts are sold according to "nominal" pipe size. So the size will match the pipe diameter. The flat part of the mounting foot will need to be bolted to the vent pipe with the "U" bolts. The bolts holding the mounting foot to the pole has slots to adjust plumb, as well as being able to swing to vertical for plumb.

It appears that you have less to worry about than you or any of the other posters have mentioned.

[HDTVFanAtic]

Forget what the other poster said about the pipe being "perfectly plumb." The mounting pole will allow all adjustment needed, even if the vent pipe is not plumb.

Forget what that poster says.

There is a reason they tell you for the pipe to be plumb....and it's not to make extra work for the installer.

The pipe needs to be perfectly plumb - if you want all 5 satellites.

In my years on various forums, for reasons that will never be understood, it seem the only people that ever claim the pole does not have to be plumb are from South Carolina, whatever that tells you.

There are 6 settings on a dish - the problem is only 3 of those you are able to set to any degree. 1 can only be adjusted very slightly on an AT9 (and possibily not at all with the AU9 (distance between lnbs) having never setup an AU9 personally, I am unaware of if it can be adjusted).

The other 2 settings cannot be adjusted - and those are built in to the calculations - which is achieved by making the pole plumb.

If those 2 settings are not correct, then the other 3 will never be able to properly adjust to bring in the birds (because you only have limited motion with elevation, azimuth and skew - not 360 degrees with elevation and azmuth).

Furthermore, you could make up the difference with elevation and azmuth, but then the spacing between the lnbs would be wrong and those cannot be adjusted with the skew and stay on the arc.

Think of it in a different way - there are mathmatical reason they need 7 coordinates to dial a gate in Stargate SG1 :)

Anyone who tells you that the pole does not have to be plumb is doing you a dis-service.

[Mike500]

Forget what that poster says.

There is a reason they tell you for the pipe to be plumb....and it's not to make extra work for the installer.

The pipe needs to be perfectly plumb - if you want all 5 satellites.

Have you ever mounted an AU9 slimline on a pipe? I have, and the vent pipe wasn't perfectly plumb. Just as I can adjust any AU9 pole to plumb that is mounted on a wall or a roof, the mounting bolts allow the pole to be adjusted to plumb even if the roof or the wall was not plumb.

As an installer, who has installed since the c-band days, I'll tell you that it's NOT extra work, but part of the job.

[HDTVFanAtic]

Have you ever mounted an AU9 slimline on a pipe? I have, and the vent pipe wasn't perfectly plumb. Just as I can adjust any AU9 pole to plumb that is mounted on a wall or a roof, the mounting bolts allow the pole to be adjusted to plumb even if the roof or the wall was not plumb.

As an installer, who has installed since the c-band days, I'll tell you that it's NOT extra work, but part of the job.

C Band does not look at more than one satellite at the same time without moving the dish. To stay in the arc, again, you need to plumb - and its worse with Ku - and even tighter with Ka.

Furthermore, the J mount does not have motion in 360 degrees to correct for mounting on a non-plumb surface.

I believe we also saw how well those pipes hold up in NYC several weeks ago when the "volcano" went up on Madison Avenue.

[aim2pls]

Forget what that poster says.

There is a reason they tell you for the pipe to be plumb....and it's not to make extra work for the installer.

The pipe needs to be perfectly plumb - if you want all 5 satellites.

In my years on various forums, for reasons that will never be understood, it seem the only people that ever claim the pole does not have to be plumb are from South Carolina, whatever that tells you.

There are 6 settings on a dish - the problem is only 3 of those you are able to set to any degree. 1 can only be adjusted very slightly on an AT9 (and possibily not at all with the AU9 (distance between lnbs) having never setup an AU9 personally, I am unaware of if it can be adjusted).

The other 2 settings cannot be adjusted - and those are built in to the calculations - which is achieved by making the pole plumb.

If those 2 settings are not correct, then the other 3 will never be able to properly adjust to bring in the birds (because you only have limited motion with elevation, azimuth and skew - not 360 degrees with elevation and azmuth).

Furthermore, you could make up the difference with elevation and azmuth, but then the spacing between the lnbs would be wrong and those cannot be adjusted with the skew and stay on the arc.

Think of it in a different way - there are mathmatical reason they need 7 coordinates to dial a gate in Stargate SG1 :)

Anyone who tells you that the pole does not have to be plumb is doing you a dis-service.

1) plumb pipe does help make the pointing easier

2) it doesn't have to be plumb .......PERIOD

3) I don't live in SC

4) experience >>> have serviced and installed hundred's of dishs on non-plumb poles

[Mike500]

You guys just don't get it.

The "vent pipe" to which the "J' pole is mounted does not need to be perfectly plumb, as long as the top of the "J' pole to which the dish is mounted is perfectly plumb.